(light, upbeat music) >> The last decade of cloud computing introduced and popularized an operating model that emphasized, simplified IT infrastructure provisioning and management. As well, it ushered in an era of consumption-based pricing and much more facile IT management, generally. Now these principles, they've bled into traditional data centers, which have increasingly become software led, programmable and DevOps centric. Now as we enter the post isolation era, it's ironic that not only are IT executives pursuing hybrid strategies, but everyone is talking about hybrid. Hybrid work, hybrid teams, hybrid events, hybrid meetings. The world has gone hybrid and the cloud is no exception. The cloud is expanding. Public cloud models are pushing to the data center and the edge on premises infrastructure is connecting to public clouds and managing data workflows and infrastructure across clouds and out to the edge. Now most leading technology executives that I speak with, they're essentially architecting their own clouds. And what I mean by that is they're envisioning and building an abstraction layer that hides the complexity of the underlying infrastructure and manages workloads intelligently. The end customer doesn't know or care where the data is, as long as it's secure, properly governed, and could be accessed quickly, all irrespective of physical location. Now for the most part, this vision, it can't be bought off the shelf. It needs to be built by placing bets on key technology partners and leveraging the so-called API economy. In other words, picking technology vendors that I trust in programmatically codifying and automating where possible my organizational edicts and business requirements into my own cloud to uniquely support my application portfolio in my modern business processes, which by the way, are rapidly evolving. Now, a key to enabling this vision is optionality. Meaning, not getting locked into one single technology platform, but rather having the confidence that as technology evolves, which it always does, I can focus my energies on adding value to my business through process innovation and human capital growth. Hello, everyone and welcome to this cube conversation and video exclusive on a major new industry development and partnership that's designed to maximize customer infrastructure options and move the new era of hybrid cloud computing forward. We have two industry leaders joining us today. Monica Kumar is the senior vice president of marketing and cloud go-to-market from Nutanix, and David Farrell is the senior vice president and general manager for global strategic alliances at Red Hat. Folks, welcome to theCUBE. Thanks for coming on. >> Good to be here today. >> Thank you so much. >> All right, so Red Hat is the poster child for open source success and it's executing on a strategy based on Red Hat Enterprise Linux, RHEL and OpenShift, the industry's leading container platform, to drive cloud-like experiences. Nutanix is a pioneering company and was the first to truly envision and successfully bring to market a cloud operating model to data center infrastructure. So you two, are getting together and forming a deeper, more substantive relationship. So Monica, tell us about the hard news. What's the scoop? >> Yeah, of course. So, first of all, I'm so excited to be here with David Farrell from Red Hat and for those of you who may not know this, I have a very deep personal connection with Red Hat from my previous role as well. I've been working with Red Hat since the early 2000s. So it gives me great pleasure to be here on behalf of Nutanix and with David from Red Hat, to be announcing a formal strategic partnership to deliver open hybrid multi-cloud solutions. Now let me explain to you what I mean by that. This partnership that we're announcing today is going to enable best-in-class solutions for building, scaling and managing containerized and virtualized cloud native applications in of course, hyper-converged infrastructure environments. So the collaboration is going to bring together these industry-leading technologies. Enabling and integrating Red Hat OpenShift and Red Hat Enterprise Linux, onto the Nutanix cloud platform, which includes, you know, our well-known Nutanix AOS and AHV hypervisor technologies. Now the question is, why are we doing all this? It's because of, as you said, Dave, the rapid evolution of hybrid cloud strategies and adoption of containers and Kubernetes in our customer base to develop, deploy and manage apps. And what we're hearing from our customers is that they want this integration between Red Hat Technologies and Nutanix Solutions. >> Okay. Thank you, Monica. So big news David, from Red Hat's perspective. Okay. So Red Hat, Nutanix, both leaders in their respective fields. David, what spurred the decision to partner from your standpoint? >> Yeah. And listen, let me echo Monica's comments as well. So we're really excited about the partnership with Nutanix. And we're excited because Nutanix is the leader in hybrid cloud infrastructure, but we're even more excited because this is what customers have been asking us to do. And that's really at the core of the decision. I think both teams, both companies have been listening to customers and we've got a groundswell of enterprise customers around the world that are asking us to come together. Bring our technologies together from a certification perspective, which Monica spoke about, right, is number one. So RHEL and OpenShift being certified on top of AHV, right. To provide the best-in-class service for enterprise grade applications, but there's more to it than just the certification. Like customers are looking for a world-class integrated support experience as well as they go into, into production. So we also have integrated support, right. So customers can contact Nutanix, they can contact Red Hat and having that seamless, that seamless experience is really, really critical and something that our customers have been asking us for. And then we'll continue to work from a roadmap perspective as well, from an engineering perspective, to make sure that our roadmaps are aligned and the customers have assurance over time and continuity over time so that they can make investments that they know are going to pay off and be safe investments and scalable investments over the long arc of their technology horizon, so. So those are, those are kind of our view of why this is good for customers and back to your points, David, it's about choice and optionality, right? And choice and consistency, and I think the verdict is in now, in the industry, that hybrid is the future, right? Everybody kind of agrees on that, right? In certain applications and certain workloads are going to run on-prem, others are going to run on the public cloud, and customers need choice to be able to decide what's the right destination for those workloads. And that's what Red Hat's all about, that's what RHEL's all about, what OpenShift is all about, is that it runs on any cloud infrastructure. Now it runs on Nutanix HCI. >> So I liked that two, one virtual throat to choke, or maybe better put, maybe one virtual hand to shake. So David staying with you, maybe you could talk about some of the other key terms of the partnership. Maybe focus on joint solutions that the customers can expect and I'm particularly interested in the engineering collaboration. I know there's a go-to-market component, but the engineering collaboration and technology innovation that we can expect. >> Yeah. So there's a few components to it, David. One is, obviously as I talked about roadmap, right. And that's, you know, our technology teams coming together, looking at the existing roadmaps for RHEL and OpenShift, but also adjacent capabilities that are coming from the Red Hat portfolio and capabilities that are coming from our ISV ecosystems and our respective ecosystems. This is a big win for our partners, as well, that have been asking us to work together. So we'll continue to keep the radar up about what some of those functionalities and capabilities ought to be. Whether we make them or somebody else makes them to pull into the, pull into the strategy, if you will. The second big principle around joint engineering is going to be around customer experience, right. So for example, we're starting off with the agnostic installer and by the way, this is coming Thursday, right? I think we're live on Thursday, the 29th, right? So this is in market, it is GA, it's available today, the 29th, right. And then we will move to the, to the UPI- so sorry, to the IPI installer in the second half of this year, right. To provide a more automated experience and then I think on the Nutanix side, Monica can, can talk to this, that Nutanix is building APIs to also automate installation, right? So first and foremost, we're all about getting the solution and getting the jointly engineered technologies working together and providing a superior customer experience for our customers that are deploying Red Hat on top of Nutanix. And that's going to be the guiding, the guiding driver, if you will, for how we work together. >> Yeah. And let me add to that. Like you said, we are, the engineering is already bearing fruit for our customers, right. As of today, when we announcing, we already have certified versions of Red Hat Linux with AHV, number one. Number two, as you said, the agnostic installer is available. We will make the automated installer available so any customer can deploy OpenShift using the Nutanix cloud platform in the very near future, right. Those are the two sort of the beginnings of the engineering and this is going to, this is a longterm partnership, so we will continue to evolve the different configurations that we, you know, that we test and that we validate as well as we go on. So I'm really excited about the fact that we are going to be offering customers fully tested, validated configurations to deploy. (cross talk) >> Go ahead >> David if I may just in there as well, I mean, so that's on the engineering side, right. But there'll also be an important thing, customers expect us to cooperate in to engage proactively as we face them, right. So that both the Red Hat, part of the agreement is that both the Red Hat and the Nutanix field teams, right the customer teams, will also be enabled, right. We'll do technical enablement for our teams, stand up proof of technologies, right. So that we're burning in some of the technology, if you will, and working out the kinks before the customer has to, right. And this is also a key value proposition is we're doing this work upstream, both in the engineering teams and in the field engagement teams so that customers can get time to market, if you will, and speed of solution deployment. >> Got it. So we'd love to talk about the sweet spot, the ideal customer profile at ICP. So is there a particular type of customer Monica, that stands to benefit most from the partnership and the certifications that you're committing to? >> Yeah. I mean, if you look at, you know, cloud native app development, that's happening across all types of segments, but particularly, you know, enterprise customers running, in all industries practically, running tier one applications or building custom applications in the cloud would be a great focus for this. Our customers who are mature in their cloud native journeys and want to build and run cloud native workloads at scale would be another type of audience. I mean, when you really think about the gamut of customers we serve jointly together, it's all the way from, you know, mid-sized customers who are, who may want a complete solution that's built for them, to enterprise customers and even globals accounts that are actually doing a lot of custom application development and then deploying things at scale. So really, I mean, anybody who's developing applications, anybody who's running workloads, you know, database workloads, applications that they're building, analytics workloads, I think for all of them. This is a very beneficial solution and I would say specifically from a Nutanix customer perspective, we've had a demand for, you know, the certification with AHV and RHEL for a long time. So that's something our customers are very much looking forward to. We have a large number of customers who already are deploying that configuration and now they know it's fully tested, fully supported, and there's an ongoing roadmap from both companies to support it. And then as far as OpenShift goes, we are super excited about the possibilities of providing that optionality to customers and really meeting them at every level of their journey to the cloud. >> So you got the product level certifications, that to me is all about trust and it's kind of table stakes, but if I have that, now I can, I can lean in. What other kind of value dimensions should we be thinking about with regard to this, this partnership? I mean, obviously, you know, cost savings, you know, speed, things like that, but maybe you could sort of add more color to that. >> Yeah. Well, absolutely, look. I mean, anytime there's joint there's integration, there is complexity that's taken out of deployment from the customer's hands and the vendors do the work upfront, that results in a lot of different benefits. Including productivity benefits, speed to market benefits, total cost of ownership benefits, as you said. So we expect that the fact that the two companies are now going to do all this work upfront for our customers, they'll be able to deploy and do things that we're doing, you know, much faster than before, right? So that's, you know, definitely we believe, and then also joined support. I think David mentioned that, the fact that we are offering joint support as well to our customers we'll be problem solving together. So the seamless support experience will provide faster resolution for our joint customers. >> Great. David, I wonder if you could kind of share your view of you know, thinking about the Nutanix cloud platform, what makes it well suited for supporting OpenShift and cloud native workloads? >> Well, I think the, look first off, they're the leader, right. They bring the most trusted and tried HCI environment in the industry to bear for customers, right. And they deliver on the promises that Monica just went through, right, around simplicity, around ease of use, around scalability, around optionality, right. And they take that complexity away and that's what customers I think are telling both Red Hat and Nutanix, and really everybody for that matter, right. Is that they want to focus on the business outcomes, on the business value, on the applications, that differentiate them. And Nutanix really takes away a lot of that complexity for the customer at the infrastructure level, right. And then RHEL, and OpenShift and Red Hat do that as well, both at the infrastructure level and at the application level, right. So when it comes to simplicity, and when it comes to choice, but consistency, both Nutanix and Red Hat have that at the core of how we build and how we engineer products that we take to market to remove that complexity so the customers can move quickly, more cost-effectively, and have that optionality that they're after. >> Yeah and David, if I may add to that, and thank you again for saying the things you said, that's exactly why our customers choose us. One of the key factors is our distributed architecture as well, because of the way it's architected, the Nutanix cloud platform delivers an environment that's highly scalable and resilient, and it's well suited for enterprise deployments of Red Hat, OpenShift at scale. The platform also includes, you know, fully integrated unified storage, which addresses many of the challenging problems faced by operators routinely in configuring and managing storage for stateful containers, for example. So there's a lot of goodness there and the combination of Red Hat, both you know, RHEL and OpenShift, any 10x platform, I believe, offers really unparalleled value to our customers in terms of the technology we bring and the integration we bring to our customers. >> Okay, great. Last question, David, maybe you first, and then Monica, you can bring us home. Where do you guys want to see this partnership going? >> We want to see it going where, customers are getting the most value of course, right. And we would like to see obviously adoption, right. So, anytime two leaders like ourselves come together, it's all about delivering for the customer. We've got a long list of customers that have been asking us, as Monica said to do this, and it's overwhelming, right. So we're responding to that. We've got a pipeline of, of customers that we're already beginning to engage on. And so we'll measure our progress based upon adoption, right, and how customers adopt the solution, the shared solution as we go forward. How they're feeding back to us, the value that they're getting, and also encouraging them to engage with us around the roadmap and where we take the solution, right. So I think those are ways that, you know, we'll be focused on adoption and satisfaction around it across the marketplace and the degree of interaction and input we get from customers with respect to the roadmap. And Monica, how do you feel about it? >> Yeah. What's success look like Monica? >> Yeah, look, we all know that technology is a means to an end, right? And the end is solving customer problems, as David said. For us, success will be when we have many, many, many, joined happy customers that are getting benefit from our platform. To me, this is just the beginning of our relationship to help customers. The best is yet to come. I'm super excited, as I said, for many reasons, but specifically, because we know there's a huge demand out there for this integrated solution between Red Hat and Nutanix and we'll start delivering it to our customers. So we've been, we'll be working very closely with our customers to see how that option goes, and we want to delight them with this, with our joint solution. That's our goal. >> Thank you. Well, David, you kind of alluded to it. Customers have been looking forward to this for quiet some time, and number of us have been thinking about this happening and to me, the key, is you're actually putting some real muscle behind it as seen in the engineering resources. And you got to have that type of commitment before you really go forward, otherwise, it's just kind of a yeah a nice press release, nice party deal, this isn't. So congratulations on figuring this out. Good luck. And we'll be really excited to watch your progress. Appreciate you guys coming to theCUBE. Okay. And thank you for watching everybody. This is Dave Vellante for theCube. We'll see you next time. (light, upbeat music)

>> Live from Barcelona, Spain, it's theCUBE! Covering KubeCon and CloudNativeCon Europe 2019. Brought to you by Red Hat, the Cloud Native Computing Foundation, and ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back. This is theCUBE's live coverage of KubeCon, CloudNativeCon 2019 here in Barcelona, Spain. 7,700 here in attendance, here about all the Cloud Native technologies. I'm Stu Miniman; my cohost to the two days of coverage is Corey Quinn. And to help us break down what's happening in this ecosystem, we've brought in Jason Bloomberg, who's the president at Intellyx. Jason, thanks so much for joining us. >> It's great to be here. >> All right. There's probably some things in the keynote I want to talk about, but I also want to get your general impression of the show and beyond the show, just the ecosystem here. Brian Liles came out this morning. He did not sing or rap for us this morning like he did yesterday. He did remind us that the dinners in Barcelona meant that people were a little late coming in here because, even once you've got through all of your rounds of tapas and everything like that, getting that final check might take a little while. They did eventually filter in, though. Always a fun city here in Barcelona. I found some interesting pieces. Always love some customer studies. Conde Nast talking about what they've done with their digital imprint. CERN, who we're going to have on this program. As a science lover, you want to geek out as to how they're finding the Higgs boson and how things like Kubernetes are helping them there. And digging into things like storage, which I worked at a storage company for 10 years. So, understanding that storage is hard. Well, yeah. When containers came out, I was like, "Oh, god, we just fixed it for virtualization, "and it took us a decade. "How are we going to do it this time?" And they actually quoted a crowd chat that we had in our community. Tim Hawken, of course one of the first Kubernetes guys, was in on that. And we're going to have Tim on this afternoon, too. So, just to set a little context there. Jason, what's your impressions of the show? Anything that has changed in your mind from when you came in here to today? Let's get into it from there. >> Well, this is my second KubeCon. The first one I went to was in Seattle in December. What's interesting from a big picture is really how quickly and broadly KubeCon has been adopted in the enterprise. It's still, in the broader scheme of things, relatively new, but it's really taking its place as the only container orchestrator anybody cares about. It sort of squashed the 20-or-so alternative container orchestrators that had a brief day in the sun. And furthermore, large enterprises are rapidly adopting it. It's remarkable how many of them have adopted it and how broadly, how large the deployment. The Conde Nast example was one. But there are quite a number. So we turned the corner, even though it's relatively immature technology. That's the interesting story as well, that there's still pieces missing. It's sort of like flying an airplane while you're still assembling it, which makes it that much more exciting. >> Yeah, one of the things that has excited me over the last 10 years in tech is how fast it takes me to go from ideation to production, has been shrinking. Big data was: "Let's take the thing that used to take five years "and get it down to 18 months." We all remember ERP deployments and how much money and people you need to throw at that. >> It still takes a lot of money and people. >> Right, because it's ERP. I was talking to one of the booths here, and they were doing an informal poll of, "How many of you are going to have Kubernetes "in production in the next six months?" Not testing it, but in production in the next six months, and it was more than half of the people were going to be ramping it up in that kind of environment. Anything architecturally? What's intriguing you? What's the area that you're digging down to? We know that we are not fully mature, and even though we're in production and huge growth, there's still plenty of work to do. >> An interesting thing about the audience here is it's primarily infrastructure engineers. And the show is aimed at the infrastructure engineers, so it's technical. It's focused on people who code for a living at the infrastructure level, not at the application level. So you have that overall context, and what you end up having, then, is a lot of discussions about the various components. "Here's how we do storage." "Here's how we do this, here's how we do that." And it's all these pieces that people now have to assemble, as opposed to thinking of it overall, from the broader context, which is where I like writing about, in terms of the bigger picture. So the bigger picture is really that Cloud Native, broadly speaking, is a new architectural paradigm. It's more than just an architectural trend. It's set of trends that really change the way we think about architecture. >> One interesting piece about Kubernetes, as well. One of the things we're seeing as we see Kubernetes start to expand out is, unlike serverless, it doesn't necessarily require the same level of, oh, just take everything you've done and spend 18 months rewriting it from scratch, and then it works in this new paradigm in a better way. It's much less of a painful conversion process. We saw in the keynote today that they took WebLogic, of all things, and dropped that into Kubernetes. If you can do it with something as challenging, in some respects, and as monolithic as WebLogic, then almost any other stack you're going to see winds up making some sense. >> Right, you mentioned serverless in contrast with Kubernetes, but actually, serverless is part of this Cloud Native paradigm as well. So it's broader than Kubernetes, although Kubernetes has established itself as the container orchestration platform of choice. But it's really an overall story about how we can leverage the best practices we've learned from cloud computing across the entire enterprise IT landscape, both in the cloud and on premises. And Kubernetes is driving this in large part, but it's bigger picture than the technology itself. That's what's so interesting, because it's so transformative, but people here are thinking about trees, not the forest. >> It's an interesting thing you say there, and I'm curious if you can help our community, Because they look at this, and they're like, "Kubernetes, Kubernetes, Kubernetes." Well, a bunch of the things sit on Kubernetes. As they've tried to say, it's a platform of platforms. It's not the piece. Many of the things can be with Kubernetes but don't have to be. So, the whole observability piece. We heard the merging of the OpenCensus, OpenTracing with OpenTelemetry. You don't have to have Kubernetes for that to be a piece of it. It can be serverless underneath it. It can be all these other pieces. Cloud Native architecture sits on top of it. So when you say Cloud Native architecture, what defines that? What are the pieces? How do I have to do it? Is it just, I have to have meditated properly and had a certain sense of being? What do we have to do to be Cloud Native? >> Well, an interesting way of looking at it is: What we have subtracted from the equation, so what is intentionally missing. Cloud Native is stateless, it is codeless, and it is trustless. Now, not to say that we don't have ways of dealing with state, and of course there's still plenty of code, and we still need trust. But those are architectural principals that really percolate through everything we do. So containers are inherently stateless; they're ephemeral. Kubernetes deals with ephemeral resources that come and go as needed. This is key part of how we achieve the scale we're looking for. So now we have to deal with state in a stateless environment, and we need to do that in a codeless way. By codeless, I mean declarative. Instead of saying, how are we going to do something? Let's write code for that, we're going to say, how are we going to do that? Let's write a configuration file, a YAML file, or some other declarative representation of what we want to do. And Kubernetes is driven this way. It's driven by configuration, which means that you don't need to fork it. You don't need to go in and monkey with the insides to do something with it. It's essentially configurable and extensible, as opposed to customizable. This is a new way of thinking about how to leverage open-source infrastructure software. In the past, it was open-source. Let's go in an monkey with the code, because that's one of the benefits of open-source. Nobody wants to do that now, because it's declaratively-driven, and it's configurable. >> Okay, I hear what you're saying, and I like what you're saying. But one of the things that people say here is everyone's a little bit different, and it is not one solution. There's lots of different paths, and that's what's causing a little bit of confusion as to which service mesh, or do I have a couple of pieces that overlap. And every deployment that I see of this is slightly different, so how do I have my cake and eat it, too? >> Well, you mentioned that Kubernetes is a platform of platforms, and there's little discussion of what we're actually doing with the Kubernetes here at the show. Occasionally, there's some talk about AI, and there's some talk about a few other things, but it's really up to the users of Kubernetes, who are now the development teams in the enterprises, to figure out what they want to do with it and, as such, figure out what capabilities they require. Depending upon what applications you're running and the business use cases, you may need certain things more than others. Because AI is very different from websites, it's very different from other things you might be running. So that's part of the benefit of a platform of platforms, is it's inherently configurable. You can pick and choose the capabilities you want without having to go into Kubernetes and fork it. We don't want 12 different Kubernetes that are incompatible with each other, but we're perfectly okay with different flavors that are all based on the same, fundamental, identical code base. >> We take a look at this entire conference, and it really comes across as, yes, it's KubeCon and CloudNativeCon. We look at the, I think, 36 projects that are now being managed by this. But if we look at the conversations of what's happening here, it's very clear that the focus of this show is Kubernetes and friends, where it tends to be taking the limelight of a lot of this. One of the challenges you start seeing as soon as you start moving up the stack, out through the rest of the stack, rather, and seeing what all of these Cloud Native technologies are is, increasingly, they're starting to be defined by what they aren't. I mean, you have the old saw of, serverless runs on servers, and other incredibly unhelpful sentiments. And we talk about what things aren't more so than we do what they are. And what about capabilities story? I don't have an answer for this. I think it's one of those areas where language is hard, and defining what these things are is incredibly difficult. But I see what you're saying. We absolutely are seeing a transformative moment. And one of the strangest things about it, to me at least, is the enthusiasm with which we're seeing large enterprises, that you don't generally think of as being particularly agile or fast-moving, are demonstrating otherwise. They're diving into this in fascinating ways. It's really been enlightening to have conversations for the last couple of days with companies that are embracing this new paradigm. >> Right. Well, in our perspective at Intellyx, we're focusing on digital transformation in the enterprise, which really means putting the customer first and having a customer-driven transformation of IT, as well as the organization itself. And it's hard to think in those terms, in customer-facing terms, when you're only talking about IT infrastructure. Be that as it may, it's still all customer-driven. And this is sometimes the missing piece, is how do we connect what we're doing on the infrastructure side with what customers require from these companies that are implementing it? Often, that missing piece centers on the workload. Because, from the infrastructure perspective, we have a notion of a workload, and we want workload portability. And portability is one of the key benefits of Kubernetes. It gives us a lot of flexibility in terms of scalability and deployment options, as well as resilience and other benefits. But the workload also represents the applications we're putting in front of our end users, whether they're employees or end customers. So that's they key piece that is like the keystone that ties the digital story, that is the customer-facing, technology-driven, technology-empowered story, with the IT infrastructure stories. How do we support the flexibility, scalability, resilience of the workloads that the business needs to meet its business goals? >> Yeah, I'm really glad you brought up that digital transformation piece, because I have two questions, and I want to make sure I'm allowing you to cover both of them. One is, the outcome we from people as well: "I need to be faster, and I need to be agile." But at the same point, which pieces should I, as an enterprise, really need to manage? Many of these pieces, shouldn't I just be able to consume it as a managed service? Because I don't need to worry about all of those pieces. The Google presentation this morning about storage was: You have two options. Path one is: we'll take care of all of that for you. Path two is: here's the level of turtles that you're going to go all the way down, and we all know how complicated storage is, and it's got to work. If I lose my state, if I lose my pieces there, I'm probably out of business or at least in really big trouble. The second piece on that, you talked about the application. And digital transformation. Speed's great and everything, but we've said at Wikibon that the thing that will differentiate the traditional companies and the digitally transformed is data will drive your business. You will have data, it will add value of business, and I don't feel that story has come out yet. Do you see that as the end result from this? And apologies for having two big, complex questions here for you. >> Well, data are core to the digital transformation story, and it's also an essential part of the Kubernetes story. Although, from the infrastructure perspective, we're really thinking more about compute than about data. But of course, everything boils down to the data. That is definitely always a key part of the story. And you're talking about the different options. You could run it yourself or run it as a managed service. This is a key part of the story as well, is that it's not about making a single choice. It's about having options, and this is part of the modern cloud storage. It's not just about, "Okay, we'll put everything in one public cloud." It's about having multiple public clouds, private clouds, on-premises virtualization, as well as legacy environments. This is what you call hybrid IT. Having an abstracted collection of environments that supports workload portability in order to meet the business needs for the infrastructure. And that workload portability, in the context of multiple clouds, that is becoming increasingly dependent on Kubernetes as an essential element of the infrastructure. So Kubernetes is not the be-all and end-all, but it's become an essentially necessary part of the infrastructure, to make this whole vision of hybrid IT and digital transformation work. >> For now. I mean, I maintain that, five years from now, no one is going to care about Kubernetes. And there's two ways that goes. Either it dries up, blows away, and something else replaces it, which I don't find likely, or, more likely, it slips beneath the surface of awareness for most people. >> I would agree, yeah. >> The same way that we're not sitting here, having an in-depth conversation about which distribution of Linux, or what Linux kernel or virtual memory manager we're working with. That stuff has all slipped under the surface, to the point where there are people who care tremendously about this, but you don't need to employ them at every company. And most companies don't even have to think about it. I think Kubernetes is heading that direction. >> Yeah, it looks like it. Obviously, things continue to evolve. Yeah, Linux is a good example. TCP/IP as well. I remember the network protocol wars of the early 90s, before the web came along, and it was, "Are we going to use Banyan VINES, "are we going to use NetWare?" Remember NetWare? "Or are we going to use TCP/IP or Token Ring?" Yeah! >> Thank you. >> We could use GDP, but I don't get it. >> Come on, KOBOL's coming back, we're going to bring back Token Ring, too. >> KOBOL never went away. Token Ring, though, it's long gone. >> I am disappointed in Corey, here, for not asking the question about portability. The concern we have, as you say: okay, I put Kubernetes in here because I want portability. Do I end up with least-common-denominator cloud? I'm making a decision that I'm not going to go deep on some of the pieces, because nice as the IPI lets things through, but we understand if I need to work across multiple environments, I'm usually making a trade-off there. What do you hear from customers? Are they aware that they're doing this? Is this a challenge for people, not getting the full benefit out of whichever primary or whichever clouds they are using? >> Well, portability is not just one thing. It's actually a set of capabilities, depending upon what you are trying to accomplish. So for instance, you may want to simply support backing up your workload, so you want to be able to move it from here to there, to back it up. Or you may want to leverage different public clouds, because different public clouds have different strengths. There may be some portability there. Or you may be doing cloud migration, where you're trying to move from on-premises to cloud, so it's kind of a one-time portability. So there could be a number of reasons why portability is important, and that could impact what it means to you, to move something from here to there. And why, how often you're going to do it, how important it is, whether it's a one-to-many kind of thing, or it's a one-to-one kind of thing. It really depends on what you're trying to accomplish. >> Jason, last thing real quick. What research do you see coming out of this? What follow-up? What should people be looking for from Intellyx in this space in the near future? >> Well, we continue to focus on hybrid IT, which include Kubernetes, as well as some of the interesting trends. One of the interesting stories is how Kubernetes is increasingly being deployed on the edge. And there's a very interesting story there with edge computing, because the telcos are, in large part, driving that, because of their 5G roll-outs. So we have this interesting confluence of disruptive trends. We have 5G, we have edge computing, we have Kubernetes, and it's also a key use case for OpenStack, as well. So it's like all of these interesting trends are converging to meet a new class of challenges. And AI is part of that story as well, because we want to run AI at the edge, as well. That's the sort of thing we do at Intellyx, is try to take multiple disruptive trends and show the big picture overall. And for my articles for SiliconANGLE, that's what I'm doing as well, so stay tuned for those. >> All right. Jason Bloomberg, thank you for helping us break down what we're doing in this environment. And as you said, actually, some people said OpenStack is dead. Look, it's alive and well in the Telco space and actually merging into a lot of these environments. Nothing ever dies in IT, and theCUBE always keeps rolling throughout all the shows. For Corey Quinn, I'm Stu Miniman. We have a full-packed day of interviews here, so be sure to stay with us. And thank you for watching theCUBE. (upbeat techno music)