(soft music) >> There are many constants in the storage business, relentlessly declining cost per bit, innovations that perpetually battled the laws of physics, a seemingly endless flow of venture capital, despite the intense competition. And there's one other constant in the storage business, Eric Hertzog, and he joins us today in this CUBE video exclusive to talk about IBM's recent storage announcements. Eric, welcome back to theCUBE. >> Great, Dave, thanks very much, we love being on theCUBE and you guys do a great job of informing the industry about what's going on in storage and IT in general. >> Well, thank you for that. >> Great job. >> We're going to cover a lot of ground today. IBM Storage, made a number of announcements the past month around data resilience, a new as-a-service model, which a lot of folks are doing in the industry, you've made performance enhancements. Can you give us the top line summary of the hard news, Eric? >> Sure, the top line summary is of course cyber security is on top of mind for everybody in the recent Fortune 500 list that came out, you probably saw, there was a survey of CEOs of Fortune 500 companies, they named cybersecurity as their number one concern, not war, not pandemic, but cybersecurity. So we've got an announcement around data resilience and cyber resiliency built on our FlashSystem family with our new offering, Safeguarded Copy. And the second thing is the move to a new method of storage consumption. Storage-as-a-Service, a pay-as-you-go model, cloud-like the way people buy cloud storage, that's what you can do now from IBM Storage with our Storage-as-a-Service. Those are the key, two takeaways, Dave. >> Yeah and I want to stay on the trends that we're seeing in cyber for a moment, the work from home pivot in the hybrid work approach has really created a new exposures, people aren't as secure outside of the walled garden of the offices and we've seen a dramatic escalation in the adversaries capabilities and techniques, another least of which is island hopping, in other words, putting code fragments in the digital supply chain, they reform once they're inside the company and it's almost like this organic creepy thing that occurs. They're also living as you know, stealthily for many, many months, sometimes years, exfiltrating data, and then just waiting and then when companies respond, the incidents response trigger a ransomware incident. So they escalate the cyber crime and it's just a really, really bad situation for victims. What are you seeing in that regard and the trends? >> Well, one of the key things we see as everyone is very concerned about cybersecurity. The Biden administration has issued (indistinct) not only to the government sector, but to the private sector, cyber security is a big issue. Other governments across the world have done the same thing. So at IBM Storage, what we see is taking a comprehensive view. Many people think that cybersecurity is moat with the alligators, the castle wall and then of course the sheriff of Nottingham to catch the bad guys. And we know the sheriff of Nottingham doesn't do a good job of catching Robin Hood. So it takes a while as you just pointed out, sitting there for months or even longer. So one of the key things you need to do in an overall cybersecurity strategy is don't forget storage. Now our announcement around Safeguarded Copy is very much about rapid recovery after an attack for malware or ransomware. We have a much broader set of cyber security technology inside of IBM Storage. For example, with our FlashSystem family, we can encrypt data at rest with no performance penalty. So if someone steals that data, guess what? It's encrypted. We can do anomalous pattern detection with our backup product, Spectrum Protect Plus, why would you care? Well, if theCUBE's backup was taking two hours on particular datasets and all of a sudden it was taking four hours, Hmm maybe someone is encrypting those backup data sets. And so we notify. So what we believe at IBM is that an overarching cybersecurity strategy has to keep the bad guys out, threat detection, anomalous pattern behavior on the network, on the servers, on the storage and all of that, chasing the bad guy down once they breach the wall, 'cause that does happen, but if you don't have cyber and data resilience built into your storage technology, you are leaving a gap that the bad guys can explain, whether that be the malware ransomware guys oh by the way, Dave, there still is internal IT theft that there was a case about 10 years ago now where 10 IT guys stole $175 million. I kid you not, $175 million from a bunch of large banks across the country, and that was an internal IT theft. So between the internal IT issues that could approach you malware and ransomware, a comprehensive cybersecurity strategy, must include storage. >> So I want to ask you about come back to Safeguarded Copy and you mentioned some features and capabilities, encrypting data at rest, your anomalous pattern recognition inferring, you're taking a holistic approach, but of course you've got a storage centricity, what's different about your cyber solution? What's your unique value probability to your (indistinct) . >> Well, when you look at Safeguarded Copy, what it does is it creates immutable copies that are logically air-gapped, but logically air-gapped locally. So what that means is if you have a malware or ransomware attack and you need to do a recovery, whether it be a surgical recovery or a full-on recovery, because they attacked everything, then we can do recovery in a couple hours versus a couple of days or a couple of weeks. Now, in addition to the logical local air-gapping with Safeguarded Copy, you also could do remote logical air-gapping by snapping out to the cloud, which we also have on our FlashSystem products and you also of course, could take our FlashSystem products and back up to tape, giving you a physical air gap. In short, we give our customers three different ways to help with malware and ransomware. >> Let me ask you- >> Are air-gapped locally. >> Yeah, please continue, I'm sorry. >> So our air-gapping locally for rapid recovery, air-gapping remotely, which again, then puts it on the cloud provider network, so hopefully they can't breach that. And then clearly a physical air gap going out to tape all three and on the mainframe, we have Safeguarded Copy already, Dave and several of our mainframe customers actually do two of those things, they'll do Safeguarded Copy or rapid recovery locally, but they'll also take that Safeguarded Copy and either put it out to tape or put it out to a cloud provider with a remote logical air-gap using a snapshot. >> I want to ask you a question about management 'cause when you ask CSOs, what's your number one challenge, they'll say lack of talent, We've got all these tools and all this lack of skills to really do all this stuff. Can't hire people fast enough and they don't have the skills. So when you think about it, and so what you do is you bring a lot of automation into the orchestration and management. My question is this, when you set up air gaps, do you recommend, or what do you see in terms of not, of logically and physically not only physically separating the data, but also the management and orchestration and automation does that have to be logically air-gapped as well or can you use the same management system? What's best practice there? >> Ah, so what we do is we work with our copy management software, which will manage regular copies as well, but Safeguarded Copies are immutable. You can't write to them, you can't get rid of them and they're logically air-gapped from the local hosts. So the hosts, for the Safeguarded Copies that immutable copy, you just made, the hosts don't even know that it's there. So you manage that with our copy management software, which by the way, we'll manage regular snapshots and replicas as well, but what that allows you to do is allows you to automate, for example, you can automate recovery across multiple FlashSystem arrays, the copy services manager will allow you to set different parameters for different Safeguarded Copies. So a certain Safeguarded Copy, you could say, make me a copy every four hours. And then on another volume on a different data set, you could say, make me a copy every 12 hours. Once you set all that stuff update, it's completely automated, completely automated. >> So, I want to come back to something you mentioned about anomalous pattern recognition and how you help with threat detection. So a couple of a couple of quick multi-part question here. First of all, the backup corpus is an obvious target. So that's an area that you have to protect. And so can, and you're saying, you've used the example if your backups taking too long, but so how do you do that? What's the technology behind that? And then can you go beyond, should you go beyond just the backup corpus, with primary data or copies on-prem, et cetera? Two part questions. >> So when we look at it, the anomalous pattern detection is part of our backup software, say Spectrum Protect and what it does it uses AI-based technology, it recognizes a pattern. So it knows that the backup dataset for the queue takes two hours and it recognizes that, and it sees that as the normal state of events. So if all of a sudden that backup that theCUBE was doing used to take two hours and starts taking four, what it does is that's an anomalous pattern, it's not a normal pattern. It'll send a note to the backup admin, the storage admin, whoever you designate it to and say the backup data set for theCUBE that used to take two hours, it's taken four hours, you probably ought to check that. So when we view cyber resiliency from a storage perspective, it's broad. We just talked about anomalous pattern detection in Spectrum Protect. We were talking most of the conversation about our Safeguarded Copy, which is available on the mainframe for several years and is now available on FlashSystems, making immutable local air-gap copies, that can be rapidly recovered and are immutable and can help you recover for a malware or ransomware attack. Our data at rest encryption happens to be with no performance penalty. So when you look at it, you need to create an overarching strategy for cybersecurity and then when you look at your storage estate, you need to look at your secondary storage, backup, replicas, snaps, archive, and have a strategy there to protect that and then you need a strategy to protect your primary storage, which would be things like Safeguarded Copy and encryption. So then you put it all together and in fact, Dave, one of the things we offer is a free cyber resilience assessment. It's not only for IBM Storage, but it happens to be a cyber resilience assessment that conforms to the NIST Framework and it's heterogeneous. So if you're a big company, you've got IBM EMC and HP Storage, guess what? It's all about the data sets not about the storage. So we say, you said these 10 data sets are critical, why are you not encrypting them? These data sets are XYZ, why are you not air-gapping them? So we come up based on the NIST Framework, a set of recommendations that are not IBM specific, but they are storage specific. Here's how you make your storage more resilient, both your secondary storage and your primary storage. That's how we see the big thing and Safeguarded Copy of course fits in on the primary storage side, A on the mainframe, which we've had for several years now and B in the Linux world, the Unix world and the Windows Server world on our FlashSystem portfolio with the announcement we did on July 20th. >> Great, thank you for painting that picture. Eric, are you seeing any use case patterns emerge in this space? >> Well, we see a couple of things. First of all, is A most resellers and most end-users, don't see storage an overarching part of the cybersecurity strategy, and that's starting to change. Second thing we're seeing is more and more storage companies are trying to get into this bailiwick of offering cyber and data resilience. The value IBM brings of course is much longer experience to that and we even integrate with other products. So for example, IBM offers a product called QRadar from the security divisions not a storage product, a security product, and it helps you with early data breach recognition. So it looks at servers, network access, it looks at the storage and it actually integrates now with our Safeguarded Copy. So, part of the value that we bring is this overarching strategy of a comprehensive data and cyber resilience across our whole portfolio, including Safeguarded Copy our July 20th announcement. But also integration beyond storage now with our QRadar product from IBM security division. And there will be future announcements coming in both Q4 and Q1 of additional integration with other security technologies, so you can see how storage can be a vital COD in the corporate cybersecurity strategy. >> Got it, thank you. Let's pivot to the, as-a-service it's, cloud obviously is brought in that as-a-service. Now, it seems like everybody has one now. You guys have announced obviously HPE, Dell, Lenovo, Cisco, Pure, everybody's gotten out there as-a-service model, what do we need to know about your as-a-service solution and why is it different from the others? >> Sure. Well, one of the big differences is we actually go on actual storage, not effective. So when you look at effective storage, which most of them do that includes creating the (indistinct) data sets and other things, so you're basically paying for that. Second thing we do is we have a bigger margin. So for example, if theCUBE says we want SLA-3 and we sell it by the SLA, Dave, SLA-1, two and three. So let's say theCUBE needs SLA-3 and the minimum capacity is a 100 terabytes, but let's say you think you need 300 terabytes. No problem. You also have a variable. One of the key differences is unlike many of our competitors, the rate for the base and the rate for the variable are identical. Several of our competitors, when you're in the base, you pay a certain amount, when you go into the variable, they charge you a premium. The other key differentiator is around data reduction. Some of our competitors and all storage companies have data reduction technology. Block-level D do thin provisioning, compression, we all offer those features. The difference is with IBM's pay-as-you-grow, Storage-as-a-Service model, if you have certain data sets that are not very deducible, not very compressible, we absorbed that with our competitors, most of them, if the dataset is not easily deducible, compressible, and they don't see the value, they actually charge you a premium for that. So that is a huge difference. And then the last big difference is our a 100% availability guarantee. We have that on our FlashSystem product line, we're the only one offering 100% availability guarantee. We also against many of the competitors offer a better base nines, as you know, availability characteristics. We offer six nines of availability, which is five minutes and 26 seconds of downtime and a 100% availability of offering. Some of our competitors only offer four nines of availability and if you want five or six, they charge you extra. We give you six nines base in which has only five minutes and change of downtime in a year. So those are the key difference between us and the other as-a-service models out there. >> So, the basic concept I think, is if you commit to more and buy more, you pay less per. I mean, that's the basic philosophy of these things, right? So, if- >> Yes. >> I commit to you X, let's say, I want to just sort of start small and I commit to you to X and great. I'm in now in, maybe I sign up for a multi-year term, I commit this much, whatever, a 100 terabytes or whatever the minimum is. And then I can say, Hey, you know what? This is working for me. The CFO likes it and the IT guys can provision more seamlessly, we got our chargeback or showback model goes, I want to now make a bigger commitment and I can, and I want to sort of, can I break my three-year term and come back and then renegotiate, kind of like reserved instances, maybe bigger and pay less? How do you approach that? >> Well, what you do is we do a couple of things. First of all, you could always add additional capacity, and you just call up. We assign a technical account manager to every account. So in addition to what you get from the regular sales team and what you get from our value business partners, by the way, we did factor in the business partners, Dave, into this, so business partners will have a great pay-as-you-go Storage-as-a-Service solution, that includes partners and their ability to leverage. In fact, several of our partners that do have both MSP and MHP businesses are working right now to leverage our Storage-as-a-Service, and then add on their own value with their own MSP and MHP capability. >> And they can white label that? Is that right or? >> Well, you'd still have Storage-as-a-Service from IBM. They would resell that to theCUBE and then they'd add in their own MHP or MSP. >> Got it. >> That said partners interested in doing a white label, we would certainly entertain that capability. >> Got it. I interrupted you, carry on please. >> Yeah, you can go ahead and add more capacity, not a problem. You also can change the SLA. So theCUBE, one of the leading an industry analyst firms, you bought every analyst firm in the world, and you're using IBM Storage-as-a-Service, pay-as-you-go cloud-like model. So what you do is you call up the technical account manager and say, Eric, we bought all these other companies they're using on-prem storage, we'd like to move to Storage-as-a-Service for all the companies we acquire. We can do that, so that would up your capacity. And then you could say, now we've been at SLA-2, but because we're adding all these new applications of workloads from our acquired companies, we want some of it to be at SLA-1. So we can have some of your workloads on SLA-2, others on SLA-1, you could switch everything to SLA-1, and you just call your technical account manager and they'll make that happen for you or your business partner, obviously, if you bought through the channel. >> I get it, the hard question is what if all those other companies theCUBE acquired are also IBM Storage-as-a-Service customers? Can I, what's that discussion like? Hey, can I consolidate those and get a better deal? >> Yeah, there are all Storage-as-a-Service customers and Dave I love that thought, we would just figure out a way to consolidate the agreement. The agreements are one through five years. What I think also that's very unique is let's say for whatever reason, and we all love finance people. Let's say the IT guys have called the finance and say, we did a one-year contract, we now like to do a three-year contract. The one year is coming up and guess what? Finance's delayed for whatever reason, the PO doesn't go through. So the ITI calls up the technical account manager, we love your service, it's delayed in finance. We will let them stay on their Storage-as-a-Service, even though they don't have a contract. Now, of course they've told us they want to do one, but if they exceed the contract by a quarter or two, because they can't get the finance guys are messing with the IT guys, that's fine. What the key differentiators? Exactly the same price. Several of our competitors will also extend without a contract, but until you do a contract, they charge you a premium, we do not, whatever, if you're an SLA-3, you're SLA-3, we'll extend you and no big deal. And then you do your contract, when the finance guys get their act together and you're ready to go. So that is something we can do and we'll do on a continual basis. >> Last question. Let's go way out. So, we're not doing any time, near-term forecasts, I'm trying to understand how popular you think as-a-service is going to be. I mean, if you think about the end of the decade, let's think industry total, IBM specific, how popular do you think as-a-service models will be? Do you think it will be the majority of the transacted business or it's kind of more of a, just one of many? >> So I think there will be many, some people will still have bare metal on-premises. Some people will still do virtualization on-premises or in a hybrid cloud configuration. What I do think though is Storage-as-a-Service will be over 50% by the end. Remember, we're sitting at 2021. So we're talking now 2029. >> Right. >> So I think Storage-as-a-Service will be over 50%. I think most of that Storage-as-a-Service will be in a hybrid cloud model. I think the days of a 100% cloud, which is the way it started. I think a lot of people realize that a 100% cloud actually is more expensive than a hybrid cloud or fully on-prem. I was at a major university in New York, they are in the healthcare space and I know their CIO from one of my past lives. I was talking to him, they did a full on analysis of all the cloud providers going a 100% cloud. And their analysis showed that a 100% cloud, particularly for highly transactional workloads was 50% more expensive than buying it, paying the maintenance and paying their employees. So we did an all in view. So what I think it's going to be is Storage-as-a-Service will be over 50%. I think most of that Storage-as-a-Service will be in a hybrid cloud configuration with storage on-prem or in a colo, like what our IBM pay-as-you-go service will do and then it will be accessed and available through a hybrid cloud configuration with IBM Cloud, Google, Amazon as or whoever the cloud provider is. So I do think that you're looking at over 50% of the storage being as-a-service, but I do think the bulk of that as-a-service will be as-a-service through someone like IBM or our competitors and then part of it will be from the cloud providers. But I do think you're going to see a mix because right now the expense of going a 100% cloud cloud storage is dramatically understated and when someone does an analysis like that major university in New York did, they had a guy from finance, help them do the analysis and it was 50% more expensive than doing on-premise either on-prem or on-prem as-a-service, both were way cheaper. >> But you own the asset, right? >> Yes. >> As-a-service model. >> We, right, we own the asset. >> And I would bet, >> I would bet that over the lifetime value of the spend and it as-a-service model, just like the cloud, if you do this with IBM or any of your competitors, I would bet that overall you're going to spend more just like you've seen in the cloud, but you get the benefit is the flexibility that you get. >> Yeah, yeah. If you compare it to the, so obviously the number one model would be to buy. That's probably going to be the least expensive. >> Right. >> But it's also the least flexible. Then you also have leasing, more flexibility, but leasing usually is more expensive. Just like when you lease your car, if you add up all the lease payments and then you, at the end, pay that balloon payment to buy, it's cheaper to buy the car up front than it is to lease a car. Same thing with any IT asset, now storage network servers, all are available on leasing, the net is at the bottom line, that's more than buying it upfront. And then Storage-as-a-Service will also be more expensive than buying it, my friend, but ultimate capability, altering SLAs, adding new capacity, being able to handle an app very quickly. We can provision the storage, as you mentioned, the IT guys can easily provision. We provision, the storage in 10 minutes, if you bought from IBM Storage or any competitor you bought and you need more storage, A you got to put a PO through your system and if you're not theCUBE, but you're a giant global Fortune 500, sometimes it takes weeks to get the PO done. Then the PO has to go to the business partner, the business partner has got to give a PO to the distributor and a PO to IBM. So it can take you weeks to actually get the additional storage that you need. With Storage-as-a-Service from IBM with our pay-as-you-go, cloud-like model, all you have to do is provision and you're done. And by the way, we provide a 50% overage for free. So if they end up needing more storage, that 50% is actually sitting on-prem already and if they get to 75% utilization of the total amount of storage, we then call them up, the technical account manager would call them up and their business partner and say, Dave, do you know that you guys are at 75% full? We'd like to come add some additional storage to get you back down to a 50% margin. And by the way, most of our competitors only do a 25% margin. So again, another differentiator for IBM Storage-as-a-Service. >> What about, I said, last question, but I have another question. What about day one? Like how long does it take, if I want to start fresh with as-a-service? >> Get it. >> How long does it take to get up and running? >> Basically you put the PO through, whatever it takes on your side or through your business partner, we then we'll sign the technical account manager, will call you up because you need to tell us, do you want to, in a colo facility that you're working with or do you want to put it on on-prem? And then once we do that, we just schedule a time for your IT guys do the install. So, probably two weeks. >> Yeah. >> It all depends because you've got to call back and say, Eric, we'd like it at our colo partner, our colo partners, ABC, we got to call ABC and then get back to you or on-prem , we're going to have guys in the office, a good day when it's not going to be too busy. Could you come two weeks from Thursday? Which now would be three weeks for sake of argument. But that would be, we interface with the customer, with the technical account manager to do it on your schedule on your time, whether you do it in your own facility or use a colo provider. >> Yeah, but once you tell, once I tell you, once we get through all that stuff, it's two weeks from when that's all agreed. >> Yeah. >> It's like the Xerox copier salesman, (Dave chuckles) Where are you going to put it? Once you decide where you're going to put it, then it's a couple of weeks. It's not a month or two months or yeah. >> Yeah, it's not. And we need additional capacity, remember there's a 50% margin sitting there. So if you need to go into the variable and use it, and when we hit a 75%, we actually track it with our storage insights pro. So we'll call you up and say, Dave, you're at 76%. We'd like to add more storage to give you better margin of extra storage and you would say, great, when can we do it? So, yeah, we're proactive about that to make sure that you stay at that 50% margin. Again, our competitors, all do only have 25% margin. So we're giving you that better margin, a larger margin in case you really have a high capacity demand for that quarter and we proactively will call you up, if we think you need more based on monitoring your storage usage. >> Great. Eric got to go, thank you so much for taking us through that great detail, I really appreciate it. Always good to see you. >> Great, thanks Dave, really appreciate it. >> Alright, thank you for watching this CUBE conversation, this is Dave Vellante and we'll see you next time. (soft music)

Las Vegas expensing the signal from the noise it's the kue covering you interconnect 2016 brought to you by IBM now your host John hurry and Dave vellante okay welcome back everyone we are live here in Las Vegas this is silicon angles the cube our flagship program when we go out to the events and extract the signal annoys we are at IBM interconnect 2016 it's our fifth year now doing all the IV meds now interconnecting out the cloud show I'm John furrier with my coach Dave vellante our next guest is Eric Herzog vice president of storage and software-defined at IBM welcome back you belong great to see you great thank you very much always loved helping guys out of the cube thank you very much for including us pleasure we are very cognitive today we get cognition going on the cube we have all kinds of real-time we've got api's and notifications or and we're going to stract some insight and predictive and prescriptive analytics from you right first what's going on with storage and software obviously storage right now you're seeing huge change Dell buying EMC which you know a lot about emc IBM buys the weather company two contrasting strategies but Stewart still it's the center of the value proposition we also heard Robert de Blanc say on stage today cheap compute he didn't say cheap storage storage visited it did he didn't say so long about cheap storage okay I stand corrected but you talk about a commoditization of resource still valuable I always said what's wrong with cheap compute want more of it I want more and more compute so storage does he changing the software values their last time we spoke about that what's the update in context to cloud what's the storage equation was a storage angle well for us there's a huge value proposition when both the cognitive side and in the cloud infrastructure side obviously with the tumultuous change in storage both from just where the world is going we believe that you ride the wave a flash and software-defined and that is our mantra as you know one of the industry analyst firms who tracks the numbers we were number one in flash capacity shift and number one in flash units last year are all flash and we've been number one several years in row and software-defined storage so while the storage envelope is changing if you open up that envelope we're writing the change inside that omelet which is flash software to find converged infrastructure with our pure power product and also with our partnership with Cisco on the verses stack that's two years in a row for flash leadership right yes charge same thing with software to bunt well the good thing is well the other guy leads in revenue we believe in a fair price for an outstanding award-winning product line on the software value now the cell where that fits in we had multiple guests on today we had you know Jamie Thomas former GM and storage now thinking a more systems view its horizontally composable infrastructure now our dead loss infrastructure as code how does that change the equation certainly we want storage but now you've got software driving the change where's the wisdom value points there well when you look at the software-defined infrastructure the magic fairy dust is in the software so we can work with our own hardware we can work with our competitors hardware over 300 different raise from our competitors are completely compatible with our software to find solutions for storage and we can use with white box if one of our channel partners our end users would rather have a white box storage bear hard drives from seagate OWD and some some flash and just a wrapper of metal we are software provides the value add for integration into hybrid cloud configurations in the cognitive configurations into the oceans of data and big data and into analytic environments all powered by software-defined storage ok so you've been on less than a year now all right you came on last summer right yes mid year so what nine months roughly yes inland what are the big learnings that you've encountered and then we'll start from there and then we're going to get into result are you going to transfer yeah I think the big learning is the world is evolving and a lot of the customer base hasn't gotten there yet so we're going to take them on that journey with flash software-defined converged infrastructure so we're going to lead that charge we're going to ride the wave not fight the wave sometimes iBM has fought the wave we've changed that in the storage world so we're going to be a leader we're are a leader in flash we're leader and software-defined are converged infrastructure particularly with Cisco had an incredible year last year you know for our first year we had over 250 customers over 400 units sold and while there are others who are bigger in our first year that was one of the best first years in the converging instructor of any vendor and that's the power of our software to find portfolio our flash portfolio and the things we deliver from a storage perspective that helps customers they convert either the software-defined infrastructure or converged infrastructure so that case so that sort of answers the question as to how you're going to deal with immediate it's not unique you got old stuff that's declining you got new stuff that's growing like crazy but still not big enough to offset the decline of the old stuff you got currency headwinds but the there's light at the end of the tunnel in terms of that transformation to those newer architectures is that fair yes absolutely last year if you look whether it was in the channel with our award from computer reseller news as the best enterprise storage provider in the world and that was in the fall of 2015 so when you look at the channel and what they're looking for from their provider unlike the guys in hopkinton in Austin who are merging they didn't win that IBM one that so great solution for our Channel Partner base we've won awards for software-defined for all flash we did very well in the hybrid or a category last year with several product of the Year awards so again yes we have an older installed base one of our big goals this year is to refresh that installed base with software-defined with all flash with a comprehensive family of hybrid raise to make sure that people understand this is where the market is going this is where you need to go to drive cognitive value hybrid cloud value quite honestly it's all about applications workloads and use cases and even though I've done storage for 31 years let's face it most CEOs can't stand storage have to put it in the language that they understand which is software value-add and how it can enhance their ability to meet the business SLA s that the CIO is under pressure from the VP of Operations the VP of Marketing the finance side and of course ultimately the CEO so in this business I've been in the business maybe not 31 years but maybe 35 okay so the product portfolio is very very important one of the criticisms I've had of IBM over the years has been just not enough product innovation coming out great R&D but doesn't hit the pipeline so when you came to see us in Boston you showed us a little you know glimpse of the roadmap and it's very clear that's accelerating I wonder if you could talk about that what can you share with our audience sure we've done it we've done a couple things first of all we have the flash religion we acquired a flash company get started but so did several of our competitors in addition to spending money on that acquisition we've invested over a billion dollars in engineering resources on the flash site software-defined we're spending a billion dollars in that as you know we recently bought the award-winning and market-leading object storage technology with clever safe and we spent money on that so IBM is putting its money where its mouth is its focus is on storage and how storage enhances hybrid clouds cognitive big data analytics and you know deals with these oceans of data that our customers are facing and how do you manage that and how do you make the data more valuable and more productive to the business because that's what about it's not about storage it's about the management that data to optimize our customers business and how we can deliver that with effective cost so clever save was mentioned in the keynote in context to LeBlanc's reference to the digital transport transit of you know new stream the video stuff interesting how he plugged in clever see how it is that relate I mean honestly I know it's a recent acquisition is it's just the objects towards an unstructured data why is clever stay plugged into that kind of portfolio of those four companies you mentioned around you know is when you develop that type of technology you end up with incredible amounts of data and an object store is designed to handle exabytes of capacity and exabytes of information it doesn't necessarily have to be fast for example video surveillance data and all kinds of other data may be hot for a while and one of the values of clever say for example is on our spectrum scale product which is our scale out network attached storage actually will automatically cheer too clever safe we're in a public beta right now our spectrum protect product we've also talked about is going to support clever safe either as an source so you could back it up but more importantly as a target so you could take gobs of data and back it up into a clever safe repository when you've got oceans of data and people are generating exabytes and exabytes of data what you can get with clever safe on premises or in a cloud configuration allows you to handle this extensive data growth cost-effectively and in an easy to manage and configure way about the end where relationship with storage obviously there in an announcement today with IBM EMC recently had an announcement with VMware and VX rail rom and the big debate was I see his hybrid cloud was deposition using their software stack to be a glue and into the hybrid cloud journey but one of the comments that we made note of that we captured on the prowl chat was from Keith Townsend one of our members of our community he wrote it took Netflix seven years to move to the public cloud meaning everything all flash they had one of the first all flesh implementations that Amazon ever rolled out what does that mean for the average VMware customer in this case IBM customer from a product perspective so you got you know your relationship VMware you have this notion of hybrid cloud right it took Netflix seven years there in the cutting edge what does that mean for the average customer this whole notion of using software in storage plugging the hybrid cloud it took them seven years was it 70 years for an average company well you've got to remember that that started a while ago and the move to the hybrid cloud is just accelerated dramatically so our spectrum scale product our spectrum accelerate product our spectrum protect product all are designed for hybrid cloud configurations right this minute they're easy to employ they're easy to use they're all available in softlayer they're also filled with other cloud providers spectrum protect as close to a hundred different msps and csps who provide backup and archive services with award-winning spectrum protect so our specialist families and I've different than it was seven years ago today actually its accelerated easy-to-deploy it's easy to use you have a wide choice of msps and csps to use whether it's soft layer or other providers in the industry and our software-defined storage supports all of that vendor base regardless of whether it's IBM SoftLayer or other cloud providers as well well you could argue to Netflix did it at a time when it was early days right it was near the Pioneer they were they were final trees hack and you know right they're the ones with the arrows in motion tracking chaos monkeys everywhere so so Tommy you guys okay all right sorry John I want to talk about the state of the industry it's a lot of interesting stuff going on even in the business for four decades you understand some of the trends you've seen a lot of the ebb and the flow how would you describe where we're at right now seems like an uncertain time so storage is incredibly tumultuous right now one of the good things about storage it's constantly filled with innovation as you know from my past I've done seven startups thank God five have been acquired so I can wear a Hawaiian shirt they're expensive these days ISA why insurance so every five six years you have a wave of startups of the storage business that's not common in most other segments of the IT market space but in storage it is so you have a constant wave of startups that happens on a normal basis and we're in one of those phases right now at the same time you have massive change in the Tier one vendor base EMC and Dell emerging HP splits into two network appliance which had been an incredibly great company it's fast has now missed their numbers almost eight quarters in Rowan just last week announced they're laying off 1500 people so the world is changing dramatically also the applications workloads and use cases are changing dramatically so you've gone to a cognitive ear you don't have cereal management of data you now have parallel management of data you don't want databases that react or let's say a data warehouse it takes 30 hours to run a report you want the report to run in one so if you will real-time cognitive data availability and ability to analyze that data and that is dramatically changing what startups are out how successful they'll be how the tier 1 vendors are reacting you know for example one of the great things about IBM is we are focused on flash which is the fastest grain storage systems market and software to find which was one of the fastest growing storage software markets and we're leaders in both market spaces so when you open up the envelope of what's inside storage it's a slow growth market three to four percent per year is all it's growing but certain segments are growing rapidly and IBM focuses on those rapid growth segments now but the cloud piece right so you make you guys are talking about clever safe before I was thought that was a cloud acquisition which it was in part right but it's also something that falls into the storage portfolio right and that's because clever safe can be configured in a number of different ways on-premises only cloud only or hybrid configuration we can have an on-premises clever safe configuration talking to a cloud-based configuration so again part of IBM strategy to make sure that from a storage perspective all of our software to find infrastructure and what we acquired with clever safe are designed for hybrid cloud configurations or private cloud configurations or public again our spectrum family is used by hundreds of public cloud service writers to deliver a backup service for example a spectrum protect so the reason my question was this very clearly in effect on that you talked about three percent or whatever you know the the latest numbers are it's flat Marcus gases and flat is flat but the cloud market of course is growing like that from a smaller base but it's clearly having an impact on demand is that a fair statement yeah I think what's happening when you look at it from a storage perspective where you're really having the biggest impact on cloud is in the lower end in the entry space yes the capacity is growing exponentially but whether it's the department level of a giant at global fortune 500 whether it's Herzog's bar and grill or a midsize company when they need a small array a lot of times are going to a public cloud configuration so that low end of the market is shrinking at the same time when you do software-defined if you're one of the tier 1 vendors the storage could come from off-the-shelf hard drives so the values in the software but that also delivers a revenue hit to the vendor base and Ashley when you think about how would you get incredible performance five or six years ago you would have bought an array that was five to eight million dollars best case if not closer to 10 you'd be lucky if you could get 200,000 I ops maybe you could get five milliseconds latency today at an average sale place of 300,000 dollars we can deliver over a million I ops and sub hundred micro center and latency so you don't need to buy your big iron at five eight 10 million you can do it with something for three hundred thousand dollars huge the bottleneck John okay I mean this is back to our kena brian.krall from Apple was on stage another great company leaders in the delivering great value but he made a comment I want to get your reaction to because I know it's a phone analogy but I want to bring into storage if the values and the software and all flash is the bet you guys are making the numbers are impressive in terms of performance in terms of I ops throughput and and cost per puss per megabyte he said you got to get closer to the hardware to write your native apps and he's referring to the iphone software app using Swift and xcode to the hardware so in storage look different how does the software piece take advantage of the hardware and is that built-in is an obstacle the customer because we're seeing this notion of okay take care of it take advantage of the hardware so what was how do you reconcile the we've done some very strong things there so let's take for example our spectrum virtualized software spectrum virtualize allows enterprise class data services across heterogeneous storage environments hours our competitors and anything that's white box over 300 arrays we have taken the spectrum virtualized platform and integrate it into our v nine thousand flash systems all-flash array into our mid tier storwize v7000 and our mid tier storwize v5000 which we just launched last week three new configurations we also have the sand volume controller but what we've done is integrate that spectrum virtualized software which rides a virtual back end of all storage not just our own provides a single way to replicate a single way to snapshot transparent block migration on the fly and integrate that right into flash systems and storwize as a software comes as a hard annick Stauffer comes with it exactly it's built into the size of Jeff managed as a code or estructuras code like an apple programa billion native app to the iphone what does that develop or doing with you guys is it through that software layer or how they could be right i mean the key thing when you look from a DevOps perspective they want to quickly be able to provision storage okay and with things like all the spectrum family and with the gooeys we've implemented into our store wise our XIV and all of our storage products it's very easy to deploy storage you can do it in minutes so whether the DevOps guy does or where the deadlock flight calls the storage guy the bottom line is they can get the storage up and running in a virtual environment a containerized environment in a matter of minutes and from a DevOps perspective that's what they want so we're able to meet the needs of the DevOps guy but also the traditional storage vendor as well don't get one last question for me for the henna we've run out of time they might have one more but I want to get your take on this because it's really been an interesting industry chess game with VCE and VMware and EMC doing the hyper converged x4 star calling it this hyper conversion without Cisco right this is because no longer you mentioned you in partnership with Cisco so VCC and bx rails was talked about last week what's going on with VCE is it still going to be around you see you're taking multiple forms is the increased breadth of solution is going to be multi-vendor what's your in it what you're taking on so you were at IBM cell you have relationship with cisco has that how does that what a customer's deal and what does the customer do because they're like okay who do I so I think there's a couple things that customers to look at first of all there's going to be a transformation VCE as it was originally constructed a partnership with cisco EMC and VMware will not exist after the acquisition this is my theory what will happen this distinctive sorry Cisco is go in there's no luck involved so all happen is those Cisco servers will be transitioned now and dell servers will be tradition did it's exactly what's going to happen so cisco is aware of this and cisco has been engaging with other partners like i mentioned the vs. tak had the best first year of any converged infrastructure in the history within its first year why well in the middle of last year what happened Dell an EMC an announced a merger so a lot of the business partners a lot of the end users there's cause for concern and EMC is already taken Cisco out of a number of configurations and there's a number of things for an end-user to think about one look at the development budgets what was the EMC development budget what's the dell development budget and substantially lower EMC did an outstanding job of acquiring startups with the debt load that's been written about publicly not just in the storage fresh but really in the financial press will be able to afford to buy a bunch of cool startups like EMC used to do the old days hard to say an EMC well I thought of stata domain was a great acquisition for uniting isilon same thing will they be able to continue to do that and like IBM EMC has a pretty good reputation for support and service that's not really reputation of the guys in Austin their reputation is cost-effective rapid delivery not necessarily the best important service the enterprise side people looking for that enterprise-class important service so those the questions that a customer needs to ask at the end user level where a channel partner use a civ as this merger goes for how's it going to impact the roadmap for the future the development expense my support capability those are things that have different models in those two companies so being should see how it pans out unfortunately we're out of time because we could do a whole cube second just on that area thanks for coming by give you the last word what does the digital transformation for the customer of IBM the buyer when they talked to you in the elevator and they say hey what's the storage angle on this digital treasure where the stores fit into my digital transformation what's the what's the bumper sticker what's the value proposition well the key thing digital transformation is a different sort of data it's been data for years and years and years data has to sit on storage the better the storage is your better the digital environment is the faster it is things like flash systems or our spectrum scale for cognitive the better that date is going to be so the digital era is powered by storage underneath it's like the foundation of a home good foundation great home good foundation great digital data great foundation the cube day one here more foundational coverage tomorrow the cube conversation will continue tomorrow day two we had more interviews today but tomorrow a lot of big names the biggest names in tech most powerful people here IBM interconnect is the cube we right back with more coverage here on day ones wrap up after the short break

live from San Francisco California it's the queue at vmworld 2014 brought to you by vmware cisco EMC HP and nutanix now here are your hosts John courier and Dave vellante okay welcome back at when live in San Francisco here this is the cube vmworld 2014 our fifth year I'm John furry with Dave a lot the extracting the signal noise we love talking to the executives the entrepreneurs the VCS all all the action is here on the ground ball tickets our next guest Eric Herzog the CMO and I think you're running biz dev as well yes is Deb for violin memory systems violin is went recently went public now on a complete transformation you're at the helm there from EMC so you know a little bit bout storage and flash welcome to the cube well thank you very much i always enjoy coming to the cube and doing it now for four or five years it's been great guys do an outstanding job we really appreciate it one of the things we're excited about aussies flash and every gets move them up here that's been in the storage and the periphery of stored with cloud and hybrid cloud is raving about the economic disruption of flash the performance of flash flash is super hot now doctors getting a lot of the press right now cuz the deal but still flashes at the under the hood that's where the action is so what's the update give us a take on what's going on in flash in violin what are you guys up to so the big thing is flashes at that economic tipping point so if you go back to late 70s and early 80s as everyone remembers everything was taped all the data centers were taped hard drives were more expensive they were faster and you got to the economic tipping port we're using a hard drive base to Ray was much better than using a tape subsystem than tape became backup archive which is still great at tape in fact I saw from one of the analysts who tracks such things that tape is actually still the cheapest media I don't see any CIO rushing to the all taped data center so what you've got now is flashes at that economic tipping point that between the savings and storage server software licensing power rack space floor space etc that when you do the economic analysis you can just literally do with the calculator pay is to go flash in fact flash is almost free these days so certainly the economists are ridiculously amazing in terms of cost now on the performance side you're starting to see some segmentation yesterday were talking about capacity flash and performance flash what does that mean I mean I was how they different off is it flashes flash but you started to see these conversations that are being kind of workload specific is that where it's going we still in the flash adoption phase what's your take them now we're anthem at the maturation phase flash is shifting away from everyone assuming it's the same just think of the old hard drives you know even today got 7200 rpm 10,000 RPM and 15,000 rpm and it really makes a difference as you use those various capacities and the various perform em extra around them flashes and it's all the same medium same media same heads but they make changes flash is doing the same thing there is people focusing on performance flash violin being one of those we have one of the highest performing systems out there as measured by not by violin by third parties and they got other people that want to go would all say cheap and deep flash not as cheap as hard drive but let's make flash you know faster than hard drives but not uber fast and so you could put other workloads on it that are more capacity sensitive than performance sensitive so I want if we get to unpack performance a little bit so people talk about I ops they talk about latency how do you guys look at performance how should customers be looking at performance so it's really a package okay the number one enemy of most applications particularly in mid up to global enterprise is absolutely latency so I ops is important but if you don't have good latency I ops don't overpower that so you need to have both good I ops and really strong latency in order to optimize where that be an Oracle workload at sa p workload a sequel workload those types of workloads often are very latency sensitive the lower the latency the better the application functions and the more you can do with it so so who are the kings and queens and princes of latency you would put you guys in that mix and we are in that category we can guarantee under half a millisecond latency or five hundred microseconds whichever term you want to you is whether the array is empty or full we also have some customers that have done some host-based aggregation in production and we have one of the 25 largest companies in the world with multiple petabytes in production they aggregate on the host side are arrays and they're able to deliver to millions sustained I ops regardless of workload across all those petabytes and point 15 millisecond of latency now that's not what we claim on an individual array the spec sheet so they're really getting it and they've proven it to us several times so you know that's in the performance side of the equation so latency I ops bandwidth snot as much of an issue because bandwidth obviously you can get off a hard drives and hard drives are very good for high-bandwidth situation you're not going to use all flash in meeting or attainment applications or an oil and gas or a lot of the genomic research stuff because it's very bandwidth intensive and you could get great bandwidth off of low-cost hard drives actually and create you know giant mass cluster for example is better in those workloads but in database workloads virtualized workloads for example we have a customer that on a certain physical server had 14 vm virtual machines they then used our flash and they were able to get 50 on the same exact physical Hardware same size virtual machine same I ops for that those virtual machines and go from 14 to 50 just by switching to flash same vm was VMware same exact server infrastructure all they do is swap the storage out so that's an example of how a you get the performance and be you also get the economics because obviously putting 50 virtual machines on the same physical Hardware saves you money so I would think the big benefit to is consistency all right so you hear from customers are just give me consistent predictable right moments right so while you're in the same thing from customers yes absolutely so what you have when you look out at the flash world what you're going to see is certain people have a right cliff and what happens is when you hit the right cliff or they're going to have unequal performance they'll be better than a hard drive system for sure but there they'll still get a sawtooth not as dramatic as you'd see in a hard drive subsystem but sawtooth what we do is we guarantee consistent I ops and since latency whether the array is empty half full or all the way full and very few guys in the off lash community can do that I want to talk a little bit about the the stack so you came from a company you were running you know very senior executive at emc within the mid-range business VNX awesome stack been around forever a lot of value in that stack takes a long time to harden a stack a lot of the flash guys you know you guys included came out you solving a problem start selling stack takes a long time to mature so how should we be thinking about the stack so raid stack is always crucial you know rate is not just about performance redundant array of independent disks its number one function when raid came out quite evident across the bay here at UC Berkeley was for resiliency so that's the number one thing that a raid stack does the second thing it does of course is give you performance as well because you aggregate whether it's hard drives or flash drives or hybrids you aggregate the performance across the pieces of media so I think one of the benefits you're going to see from certain vendors in the flash base we being one of them is we have a long history we're on our fourth generation flash configuration and we basically rev our generations every two years so we're looking at a raid stack that's in the eighth year time frame some of the other flash startups you know they've been shipping for two years you have a two-year-old raid stack an eight-year-old raid stack has got much more resiliency it's got more test time for us in particular our sweet spot is in the upper mid to global enterprise if you look at the fortune global 500 list over 50 of those customers use violin which when you're big company is one thing when you're a small company like us to have 50 of the global fortune 500 using your products it's got to be pretty resilient in the stack or they wouldn't be using it I mean I was on it I probably spoke one-on-one or maybe one on 2132 over 500 customers in the first half of this year and the on flash and i would ask every one of them who's used an all-flash array and it was actually pretty low penetration still right not surprising violin came up a lot TMS came up a lot I mean not and then and then pure a little bit and then you know bits and pieces but violin was consistently there's guys did a good job early on getting into this space but I want to ask you about sometimes I call it channel ft the urinary Olympics and particularly around data reduction and so you guys are now you know throwing your head into that ring how should we be thinking about sort of data reduction compression d2 obviously drives pricing down rank it helps create that that's I think part of the reason why we're at that tipping point that and you know ml see how should we be thinking about data reduction there's a lot a lot of you know finger-pointing in line not in line post process give us your point of view so the bottom line is dated ed will help you in two primary workloads virtual desktop and virtual server okay beyond that it doesn't help you compression helps you in database oriented workloads and there are certain data types that are not compressible at all so for example mpegs JPEGs and other data types are not compressed with all their already pre compressed by the nature of the data type so everyone needs to be wary that just as when you get your miles per gallon when you buy that brand new car it will vary and it will vary by workloads so if you've got a workload that's heavily already compressed you're not going to get benefit from anyone's compression including arms if you've got a workload that's already been d duped you're not going to get a benefit from anyone's d do so you have to segment your workloads I think the other thing Dave in addition to what's driving that price point which is compression and D do is multiple workloads so for violin in particular our average arraign we've already publicly talked about this our average array shipping is well over 30 terabytes that's not true of a lot of other guys when you've got 30 terabytes with the average database being four to five terabytes people don't put one database on our stuff people who sell five terabyte arrays and a recent large coming just announced the new five terabyte array they're going to put one database with us at 30 to 40 terabytes average people run three four five databases does anyone really buy a vmax or a netapp 8,000 class or a high-end IBM box and run one workload on that in the hybrid world or in the hard drive world no but that's now that people are running multiple and mixed workloads on flash arrays that plus the dee doop and compression is driving this economic switch over and why flashes the right choice for your data center well you guys do obvious do a lot in database generally and specifically oracle database via Oracle's big on pushing hybrid Columba compression and trying to lock out its competitors for grants abating in that what are you seeing there in Oracle environments and I've again I've talked a lot of customers and the the instances of hybrid columnar are still very limited right in theory on the road map how what are you seeing what are your thoughts on that what do you talk to customers customers must say well you know Oracle's locking you out you know how about I just a chubber a couple things first of all on the price points it won't matter because people run violin arrays with mixed in multiple workloads already so even if you want Oracle stuff if you were to buy the Oracle if you're going to buy Oracle compression or compression to any of the database from the database vendors themselves for us it's still benefits us we don't sell a lot of five and ten terabyte arrays we sell lots of 30 and 40 and 70 tera byte arrays we can even scale are raised up to 280 terabytes which most the other guys can't do and I'm talking now raw capacity not d duper compressor capacity at the same time while the database guys are trying to do that one thing I'd encourage the end users do is just look at the list price it's available readily Oracle's is available it's a pretty high ticket item so whether it's violent or any of the other flash vendors that have compression it won't compress as well as Oracle's will or any other database vendors but the price is pretty high so if you get reasonable compression from a storage render it's going to be a lot less expensive than using that from the database vendor down maybe the database vendors an Oracle change their strategy but right now it's a very high ticket item and when you get it from the storage vendor and even if it doesn't compress as much it's still a lot cheaper so you'll have to take that as part of the financial analysis when you're looking at your database deployment now you made a big personal bet on violin I mean you and I i was there in the front row and you announcing the latest sort of v NX which is a great announcement I mean it was you guys ticked a lot of boxes it was a lot of hard work and I realize that but my one big question was what about all flash like well we have all flash too well you said all the right marketing things and then you know several months later here you are at violin big personal bet all right you have senior executive at emc years not bad I know a lot of travel but you know pretty pretty good life hey yeah a lot of a lot of people working with you for you you know a lot of great customers why'd you make that that choice so a couple things first of all violence got an incredible set of customers when they divulge the customers to me under NDA I was like shocked I couldn't believe who the customers were you know I worked at IBM as well as EMC so of course all the big boys are your customers and they always will be but the number of really big companies they had was very impressive incredible technology this year has been all about the software stack which violin has been very mediocre at now it's got a whole set of software potential and as you know Dave I've done seven startups five of them been acquired and I can smell a stinker this is not a stinker so it past the fume test after doing seven startup so it you know feels like the what was that attraction obviously the IPO went off without a hitch right in terms of at least going public but it stopped in climb there was a little hitch excuse me absolutely being a low I'd like violent emerging player also the market team is huge yeah so that's I mean one market opportunity so with that kind of the IPO stumble if you will you still came on board yes that was not an issue for you like okay I'm going guns blaring well in addition doing seven starters I've done this is my fourth turn around and all of them have ended up very well IBM wat one of my turn arounds i was at mac store as the senior VP of Marketing when CJ Mack store that was another turnaround although be at a very large company obviously mac store at five billion at the time of the acquisition but done a number of turnarounds as well so it's it's an attractive thing to do it's a fun thing to do you feel you could really do this yeah the park I know I'm a good man but I'm not that old yet yeah it's pretty straightforward you get the customers give them some good product collect some cash do it again well I mean it's all about execution you know and violin get a lot of really great things they did really well by the customers customers love them great tech support great field support the SE teams even a group of consulting engineers and all the consulting engineers actually RX oracle and microsoft guys know their learning story but they know all about the database community and we got a couple guys from actually ex vmware guys as well so that's that's a big thing but I think the key thing is you got to execute on all cylinders and we had a great technology leadership group that did the first set got the company to the first hundred million but it wasn't the right guys to grow the business make the visit and by the way you guys interview VCS all the times you know it's very common you get to a certain point and then the founding executive team sort of needs to move aside great technology guys but not the best business men and that's a strong attraction we're just talking some VCS up here some tier 1 Greylock and any a move the question that came in over text and the day was texting me that we wanted to ask was you know at these big valuation the private companies it's hard for the employees to make money so the silver lining and your opportunity is there is a lot of growth opportunities and money-making opportunities for the management team and investors right so so that's a good position to attract some town yeah that's well that's the that's the appeal yeah when you think about there's certain guys that are really good at IBM EMC Microsoft HP VMware and they're never going to do well in a start-up you got other guys that are hybrids can be big and small company and the attraction for those that can do both is you can bring the seasoned management that you learn at an IBM and EMC a Microsoft a VMware bring that to the small company which has great technology would often does not have the discipline and rigor that a big company does and what you have to do is bounce the drive for new technology and new customers with the business model and not become overly bureaucratic and that's the attraction of a turnaround as well as guys who do lots of startups is to be able to do that and grow the company and the key thing has got to grow it properly and that's the upside well you're getting your track records phenomenal we've been following your career tech athlete for sure now Wall Street you got to kind of do the dance and you know keep keep nice and get these guys back to snap them in line right that's kind of the key focus to as well right yeah it's it's about financial execution right now we brought out a whole bunch of new products our windows flash array in line to you to compression a whole class of I'd say unmatched enterprise class data services in the off flash erase space and you've got to be able to leverage all of that and that's a key thing you've got the technology if you don't execute on the business side you know you go out of business and we've got the right team in place now to take the technology where it needs to deliver the business value to the shareholders and the and the stockholders Eric herzlich CMO violin memory systems you know my philosophy in my experience although you know not as extensive as yours is in a growing market a few missteps can be rewarded with great product so you guys have certainly a good product to get a mulligan with a growth market wind behind your back so congratulations seeing things on track and really exciting to see good company this is the cube here at vmworld 2014 right back into the short break