Narrator: From the Cube studios in Palo Alto and Boston, (upbeat intro music) it's theCUBE! Covering IBM Think. Brought to you by IBM. >> Hi, everybody, we're back. This is Dave Vellante and you're watching theCUBE's coverage of the IBM Think 2020 digital event experience, wall to wall coverage, of course in the remote Cube studios in Palo Alto and Boston. Greg Lotko is here. He's with Broadcom. He's a senior vice president and general manager of the Broadcom mainframe division. Greg, great to see you. Thanks for coming on. >> Hey good seeing you too, happy to be here. >> Hey, lets talk Z. You know, I got to say when Broadcom made a nearly 19 billion dollar acquisition of CA, many people, myself included said, "Huh? I don't really get it." But as you start to see what's happening, the massive CA install base and the cross selling opportunities that have come to Broadcom, you start to connect the dots and say, "Ah, maybe this does make some sense." But you know, how's it going? How's the acquisition been? It's been, you know, what now, two years since that move? >> Yeah we're coming up on two years. I think it kind of shocked the world, right? I mean, there is a lot of value there and the customers that have been using the mainframe and running their core businesses for many, many years, they knew this, right? So Broadcom came in and said, "Hey, you know, I don't think this is the cash cow "that others maybe have been treating it as." You know, we absolutely believed with some investment that you could actually drive greater value to customers and you know, what a novel concept right? You know, expand expense, invest, drive greater value, and that would be the way you'd expand revenue and profit. >> Yeah, I mean I think generally, the mainframe market is misunderstood. It obviously goes in cycles. I did a report, you know, a couple of months ago on really focusing on Z15X, it was last summer. And how historically, IBM performance overall as a company is really driven still by mainframe cycles because it all still drags so much software and services and so we're in the midst of a Z15 tailwind and so, of course, the COVID changes everything. But nonetheless it's a good business. IBM's a dominant player in that business. Customers continue to buy mainframes because it just works. It's too risky to rip 'em out. People say, "Oh, why don't you get rid of the mainframe?" No way customers are going to do that. It's running their business. So it's a fabulous business if you have a play there and clearly... (poor internet connection interrupts Dave speaking) >> Yeah, and if you think about those cycles that's largely driven by the hardware, right? As each generation comes out, and if you look at traditional pricing metrics that really look at using that capacity, or even using full capacity, that's what caused this cyclicality with the software as well but, you know, there's a lot of changes even in that space. I mean with us, with mainframe consumption licensing from Broadcom, with IBM doing tailor fit pricing, you know, the idea that you can have that headroom on the hardware and then pay as you go, pay as you grow. I think that actually will smooth out and remove some of that cyclicality from the software space. And as you said, correctly, you look at the COVID stuff going on, I mean there's an awful lot of transactions going on online. People are obviously checking their financials with the economics going on. The shipping companies are booming with what they have to do, so that's actually driving transactions up as well, to use that capacity that's in the boxes. >> Yeah, and financial services is actually in really good... I know that the stocks have been hit, but the liquidity in the banks is very, very strong because of the 2009 crisis. So the fiscal policy sort of, you know, dictated that or, you know, the public policy dictated that. And the banks are obviously huge consumers of mainframe. >> Sure. >> One of the things that IBM did years ago was to sort of embrace Linux, was one of its first moves to open up the mainframe. But it's much more than just Linux. I wonder if you could talk about sort of your point of view on open meets mainframe. >> Yeah, so open is way more than just Linux, right? I mean Linux is good, running around the mainframe. I mean that's absolutely an open paradigm from the operating system, but open is also about opening up the API's, opening up the connectivities so that it's easier to interact with the platform. And, you know, sometimes people think open is just about dealing with open source. Certainly we've made a lot of investments there. We contributed the command line interface and actually a little more than 50% of the original contribution to the Zowe project, under the OMP, the Open Mainframe Project. So that was about allowing open source technologies that interact with distributed and cloud technologies to now interact with that mainframe. So it's not just the open source technologies, but opening up the API's, so you can then connect across technologies that are on the platform or off platform. >> So what about the developer community? I mean there's obviously a lot of talk in the industry about DevOps. How does DevOps fit into the mainframe world? What about innovations like Agile? And sort of beyond DevOps, if you will. Can you comment on that? >> Yeah, absolutely, I mean you can bring all those paradigms, all those capabilities to the mainframe now with opening up those API's. So I mean we had a large European retail bank that has actually used the Git Bridge that we work with providing, you know, through Zowe, to connect into Endeavor, so they could leverage all the investments they had made in that existing technology over the years, but actually use the same kind of CICD pipeline, the same interaction that they do across distributed platforms and mainframe together, and open up that experience across their development community. What that really means is you're using the same concepts, the same tools that they maybe became comfortable with in university or on different platforms, to then interact with the mainframe and it's not that you're doing anything that, you know, takes away from core capabilities of the mainframe. You're still leveraging the stability, the resiliency, the through put, the service ability. But you're pressing down on it and interacting with it just like you do with other platforms. So it's really cool. And that goes beyond Linux, right? Because you're interacting with capabilities and technologies that are on the mainframe and ZOS environment. >> Yeah, and the hardened security as well, >> Absolutely. >> is another key aspect of the mainframe. Let's talk about cloud. A lot of people talk about cloud, cloud first, multicloud. Where does the mainframe fit in the cloud world? >> So, there's a lot of definitions of cloud out there, right? I mean people will talk about private cloud, public cloud, hybrid cloud across multiple private clouds. They'll talk about, you know, this multicloud. We actually talk about it a little differently. We think about the customer's cloud environment. You know, our institution that we're dealing with, say it's a financial institution, to their end customers, their cloud is however you interact. And you think about it. If you're checking an account balance, if you're depositing in a check, if you're doing any of these interactions, you're probably picking up a mobile device or a PC. You're dealing with an edge server, you're going back into distributed servers, and you're eventually interacting with the mainframe and then that's got to come all the way back out to you. That is our customer's cloud. So we talk about their cloud environment, and you have to think about this paradigm of allowing the mainframe to connect through and to all of that while you hit it, preserving the security. So we think of cloud as being much more expansive and the mainframe is an integral part of that, absolutely. >> Yeah, and I've seen some of your discussions where you've talked about and sort of laid out, look, you know, the mainframe sits behind all this other infrastructure that, you know, ultimately the consumer on his or her mobile phone, you know, goes through a gateway, goes through, you know, some kind of site to buy something. But, you know, ends up ultimately doing a transaction and that transaction you want to be, you know, secure. You want it to be accurate. And then how does that happen? The majority of the word's transactions are running on some kind of, you know, IBM mainframe somewhere, in someway touches that transaction. You know, as the world gets more complex, that mainframe is... I called it sort of the hardened, you know, sort of back end. And that has to evolve to be able to adapt to the changes at the front end. And that's really kind of what's happening, whether it's cloud, whether it's mobile, whether it's, you know, Linux, and other open source technology. >> Right, it's fabulous that the mainframe has, you know, IO rates and throughput that no other platform can match, but if you can't connect that to the transactions that the customer is driving to it, then you're not leveraging the value, right? So you really have to think about it from a perspective of how do you open up everything you possibly can on the mainframe while preserving that security? >> I want to end with just talking about the Broadcom portfolio. When you hit the Broadcom mainframe site, it's actually quite mind boggling, the dozens and dozens of services and software capabilities that you provide. How would you describe that portfolio and what do you see as the vision for that portfolio going forward? >> Yeah, so when people normally say portfolio, they're thinking software products, and we have hundreds of software products. But we're looking at our portfolio as more than just the software. Sometimes people talk about, hey let me just talk to you about my latest and greatest product. One of the things we were really afforded the opportunity to do with Broadcom acquiring us was to reinvest, to double down on core products that customers have had for many years and we know that they want to be able to count on for many years to come. But the other really important thing we believe about driving value to our customers was those offerings and capabilities that you put around that, you know? Think about the idea of if you want to migrate off of a competitive product, or if you want to adopt an additional product that have the ability to tie these together. Often in our customer's shops, they don't have all the skills that they need or they just don't have the capacity to do it. So we've been investing in partnership. You know, we kept our services business from, at least the resources, the people, from CA. We rolled them directly into the division and we're investing them in true partnership, working side by side with our customers to help them deploy these capabilities, get up and running, and be successful. And we believe that that's the value of a true partnership. You invest side by side to have them be successful with the software and the capabilities and their operation. >> Well, like I said, it caught a lot of people, myself included, by surprise that acquisition. It was a big number, but you could see it, you know, Broadcom's performance post. You know, the July 2018 acquisition, done quite well. Obviously COVID has affected, you know, much of the market, but it seems to be paying off great. Thanks so much for coming to theCUBE and sharing your insights, and best of luck going forward. Stay safe. >> Pleasure being here. Everybody here, yourself, and everybody out there, be safe, be well. Take care. >> And thank you for everybody for watching. This is theCUBE's coverage of the IBM Think 2020 digital event experience. We'll be right back, right after this short break. You're watching theCUBE. (upbeat outro music)

from the cube studios in Palo Alto in Boston it's the cube covering the IBM thing brought to you by IBM hi buddy we're back this is Dave Volante and you're watching the cubes coverage of the IBM think 20/20 digital event experience wall-to-wall coverage of course in the remote cube studios in Palo Alto in Boston Grendel Greg lot Co is here he's with Broadcom he's a senior vice president and general manager of the Broadcom mainframe division Greg great to see you thanks for coming on hey good seeing you too happy to be here hey let's talk Z you know I gotta say when Broadcom made a nearly nineteen billion dollar acquisition of ca many people myself included said huh I don't really get it but might as you start to see what's happening the massive CA install base and the cross selling opportunities that have come to Broadcom you start to connect the dots and say uh maybe this does make some sense but you know how does it how's it going how's the acquisition been it's been you know what two years since that that move yeah we're coming up on two years I think it kind of shocked the world right I mean there's a lot of value there and the customers that have been using the mainframe and running their core businesses for many many years they knew this right so Broadcom came in and said hey you know I don't think this is the cash cow that others maybe have been treating it as you know we absolutely believed with some investment that you could actually drive greater value to customers and you know what a novel concept great you know expand expense invest drive greater volley value and that would be the way you'd expand revenue and profit yeah I mean I think generally the mainframe market is misunderstood it obviously goes in cycles I did a report a couple months ago on really focusing on z15 extras last summer and how historically IBM performance overall as a company is really driven still by mainframe cycles because it still drags so much software and services and so we're in the in the midst of a z15 tailwind and and so of course in that the Cova changes everything but nonetheless it's a it's a good business IBM's a dominant player in that business customers it'll continue to buy mainframes because it just works it's too risky to rip them out people say oh I want to get rid of the mainframe no way customers are going to do that's running their business so it's just a it's a fabulous business you know if you have a play there and clearly da yeah and if you think about those cycles that's largely driven by the hardware right as each generation comes out and if you look at traditional pricing metrics that really look at using that capacity or even using full capacity that's what caused us equality with the software as well but you know there's a lot a lot of changes even in that space I mean with us with mainframe consumption licensing from from Broadcom with IBM doing tailor-fit pricing you know the idea that you can have that Headroom on the hardware and then pay as you go pay as you grow I think that actually will smooth out and remove some of that psychology from the software space and as you said correctly you look at the the kovat stuff going on I mean there's an awful lot of transactions going on online people are obviously checking their financials with the economics going on the shipping companies are booming with with what they have to do so that's actually driving transactions up as well to use that capacity that's in the boxes yeah and financial services is actually and really good know the the stocks have been hit but the liquidity and the banks is very very strong because of the 2009 crisis though the fiscal policy sort of you know dictated that or you know the public policy dictated that so so the band the banks are here we see huge consumers of mainframe one of the things that that IBM did years ago was it sort of embraced Linux was one of its first moves to open up the mainframe but it's much more than just Linux I wonder if you could talk about so your point of view on open meets mainframe yeah so open is way more than just Linux right I mean Linux Linux is good running around the mainframe I mean that's that's absolutely an open paradigm from the operating system but open is also about opening up the API is opening up the connectivity so that it's easier to interact with the platform and you know sometimes people think open is just about dealing with open source certainly we've made a lot of investments there we contributed the command line interphase and actually a little more than 50% of the original contribution to the Zoe Project under the OMP the open mainframe project so that was about allowing open source technologies that interact with distributed and cloud technologies to now interact with that mainframe so it's it's not just the open source technologies but opening up the API so you can then connect the cross technologies that are on the platform or off platform so what about the developer community I mean it's obviously a lot of talk in the industry about about DevOps how does DevOps fit into the mainframe world Oh what about innovations like agile and you know sort of beyond DevOps if you will can you comment on that yeah absolutely I mean you can bring all those paradigms all those capabilities to the mainframe now with opening up those api's so I mean we had a large European retail bank that is actually used the it bridge that we work with providing you know through Zoe to connect into endeavor so they could leverage all the investments they have made in that existing technology over the years but actually used the same kind of see ICD pipeline the same interaction that they do across distributed platforms and mainframe together and open up that experience across their development community with that really means is you're using the same concepts the same tools that they maybe became comfortable with in university or on different platforms to then interact with the mainframe and it's not that you're doing anything that you know takes away from core capabilities of the mainframe you're still leveraging the stability the really resiliency this the throughput the serviceability but you're pressing down on it and interacting with it just like you do with other platform so it's it's really cool and and that goes beyond Linux right Fisher you're interacting with capabilities and technologies that are on the mainframe and z/os environment yeah in the end the hardened security as well as another you know key absolutely let's talk about cloud where does weird a lot of people talk about cloud cloud first multi cloud where does the mainframe fit in the cloud world so there's a lot of definitions of cloud out there right I mean people will talk about private cloud public cloud hybrid cloud across multiple private clouds they'll talk about you know this multi cloud we we actually talk about it a little differently we think about the customers cloud environment you know our our institution that we're dealing with say it's a financial institution to their end customers their cloud is however you interact and you think about it if you're if you're checking an account balance if you're depositing in a check if you're doing any of these interactions you're probably picking up a mobile device or a PC you're dealing with an edge server you're going back into distributed servers and you're eventually interacting with the mainframe and then that's got to come all the way back out to you that is our customers cloud so we talk about their cloud environment and you have to think about this paradigm of allowing the mainframe to connect through and to all of that while you hit it preserving the security so we think of cloud as being much more expansive and the mainframe is an integral part of that absolutely yeah I've seen some of your your discussions where you've talked about it sort of laid out look you know the mainframe sits behind all this other infrastructure that you know ultimately the consumer on his or her mobile phone you know it goes through a gateway it goes to you know some kind of site to buy something you know ends up ultimately doing a transaction and in that transaction you want to be you know secure you want it to be accurate and then how do how does that happen the majority of the world's transactions are you know running on some kind of you know IBM mainframe somewhere in some way touches that transaction so it's a you know as the world gets more complex that that mainframe is that I called it sort of the hardened you know sort of back-end and that has to evolve to be able to adapt to the changes at the front end and that's really kind of what's happening whether it's cloud whether it's mobile whether it's you know Linux and other open source so it's right it's it's fabulous that the mainframe has you know IO rates and throughput that no other platform and match but if you can't connect that to the transactions that the customer is driving to it then you're not leveraging the value right so you really have to think about it from a perspective of how do you open up everything you possibly can on the mainframe while preserving that theory I want to end with just talking about the the Broadcom portfolio when you hit the the Broadcom mainframe site it's it's actually quite mind-boggling the dozens and dozens of services and software capabilities that you provide how would you describe that that portfolio and what do you see is the vision for that portfolio going forward yeah so when people normally say portfolio they're thinking software products and we have hundreds of software products but we're looking at our portfolio as more than just the software sometimes people talk about hey let me just talk to you about my latest and greatest product one of the things we were really afforded the opportunity to do with Broadcom acquiring us was to reinvest to double down on core products that customers have had for many years and we know that they want to be able to count on for many years to come but the other really important thing we believe about driving value to our customers was those offerings and capabilities that you put around that you know think about the idea of if you want to migrate off of a competitive product or if you want to adopt an additional product that have the ability to tie these together often in our customer shops they don't have all the skills that they need or they just don't have the capacity to do it so we've been investing in partnership you know we kept our services business from at least that resources the people from CA we rolled them directly into the division and we're investing them in true partnership working side-by-side with our customers to help them deploy these capabilities get up and running and be successful and and we believe that's the the value of a true partnership to invest side-by-side to have them be successful with the software and their capabilities and their operation well like I said I caught a lot of people myself included by surprised that acquisition it was a big number but you can see it you know the outcomes performance post you know the July 2018 acquisition done quite well obviously co vid is affected you know much of the market but seems to be paying off Greg thanks so much for coming to the Kuban sharing your insights and best of luck going forward stay safe pleasure being here everybody you yourself and everybody out there be safe be well take care and thank you for everybody for watching this is the cubes coverage of the IBM think 20/20 digital event experience we right back right after this short break you're watching the cube [Music]

>> Live from San Francisco. It's the cube covering IBM thing twenty nineteen brought to you by IBM. >> Okay. Welcome back, everyone. We're live here in San Francisco for the cubes. Exclusive coverage of IBM. Think twenty nineteen for a student in our next two guests are great. Glad Co senior vice president, general manager of the mainframe division Broadcom Only with CIA and acquired Clayton Donley, head of security and immigration. Broadcom, both formerly of CIA. Big acquisition. Big value guys. Welcome to the Cube. Good to see you. >> Thanks a lot for having us. >> So we just talked before we came on camera here, IBM. Think a lot of cars here and software a icloud systems and software working together. Kind of thesis of the Broadcom. See a acquisition that that murder, that move was a big one. A lot of analysts liked it. Your thoughts. Now that's playing out here. Yeah, I think it was >> really interesting. If you look at what Broadcom has gone after in the marketplace, is they're They're not looking for the flash in the pan or trying to chase the next new thing. They're looking for core businesses or components. Software products that they believe are, you know, have real staying power and will be around for a decade or Mohr into the future, and then they want to invest in those and nurture they really want to be. Even if it's in a new space, they want to invest in something where they'll be number one or two in the marketplace. >> It's interesting. You're looking at the mark with cloud, you see scale. You see data, all this stuff we talked about for years and years, but it really comes back down. A systems and software working together clouds one big, complex distributed system. So all from distractions could maybe tract away. Those complexities isn't doing its end of the day. It's software plus large scale systems. This kind of was playing out. This is in the wheelhouse of what you guys do it. Can you guys had some color that trend and what needs to happen to make it more and more viable? Mohr performance easier to use? >> Yeah, I mean, I think that, you know, what we see is that customers are having a lot of problems with individual pieces of software. They're having problems when they put all this together. All right, So if you look at even to your question about Brock, come a moment ago. They sort of came in in price software through through the data center because they're providing everything. May I chips, too? Fibre channel networks and other kinds of things that are running peoples, you know, networks of the very largest scale and what their realizes when you get into the enterprise software level customers have such challenges because, you know, they don't get to cherry pick just cool things or the easy things to go integrate. They've got everything from mainframe client server to interior to whatever they picked up over the years. That stuff has to work together seamlessly to get kind of value. That makes sense. And that's why I think when you start looking at, you kind of are focus. It's on helping customers bring that together, get that value. >> It's all about the hybrid environment, because what we're getting at here is I got to make the legacy work with the new. But the beautiful thing about cloud native of some of these new micro services and containers is you don't have to kill the old Bring in the new. There's a great abstraction around software now that's making them work together. But yet the new stuff and work really great. This is the kind of the new architecture. Your thoughts on this? >> Yeah. I mean, obviously you're here a lot about that here it think right there, talking all about hybrid I T or multi cloud. I think there's a stat out there that, you know, seventy five percent of the large enterprises in the world say they'll be have multi cloud or hybrid environments by twenty twenty. I think they all have it today, Right? You think mobile mainframe, right? There's not workloads that work in isolation. You pick up your phone and you go to check your balance. It's gonna kick off a transaction that's going to go toe edge device or an edge server that's going to go through a network and maybe hit another server. And eventually it's going to go back to a mainframe to check the balance or to transfer funds or something like that. So they're having to deal with it already today. And and there's two kind of sides of the coin. You want that interaction for the developers to be common across those platforms, yet you want them to be ableto leverage on the power the strength, the security of the underlying platform without having to know all the gory details, which is, you know why. It makes a lot of sense for us mainframe and distributed. If you look across what is the CIA Technologies portfolio that Broadcom acquired, A lot of the capabilities that we have are the same capabilities that work across those environments so that the enterprise customers can interact with it one way. >> Clayton it. When I hear this environment, there's certain things that I need to worry about everywhere. It's, you know, my data. How do I protect my data? And, of course, security is one of those areas where there are lots of different environments, and unfortunately, there's lots of different considerations. Depending on which clouds I have which environment, you know, mainframe X eighty six power. You all have different considerations. The mantra I've heard that that seems to resonate is security is everyone's responsibility, you know, up and down the stack from the chip level all the way through the application. So explain where you know CIA. Now Broadcom fits in tow this picture and lives in this, you know, even more. Header. Genus world and by the way, totally agree. Multi cloud is what customers have today. Yeah, >> I mean, if you if you look at it, I mean, customers. They're building out, you say new mobile applications and and, you know, building them, his services in the cloud and so forth. But what we're finding is that the transactions and other kinds of things, they're still happening in some of these other environments. Maybe those environments still live in a data center. Maybe they've been moved to a private cloud. Maybe they're in a public cloud. Writing on my ass or some other kind of bank is a service. What we're finding is that each of you that transaction has to be protected. The guy that gives you the ability to call that transaction from a mobile app needs to be protected. All of these things need to be protected. But then you need to be able to orchestrate that. Make sure that you're laying down those based protecting those bits. Same way every time testing them the same way every time. And I think that if you look at what we're looking at and our values really in digital infrastructure management, right, but you're you're bringing all these pieces in cloud, multi cloud mainframe, All of these environments you have, You have a way to operate it, Manage it as well as for security. >> Yeah. So, Greg, you know, when I look back my career, there's something that's been repeating a lot. It's I go back to find it here, go back to the nineties. It was like, Okay, what was some of the reasons why the excess piece failed? It was like, Well, it was networking security, you know, in cloud happened. It was, well, security and management, howto like, you know, figure out some of these management of a hetero genius environment has typically been a downfall in it. It's something that we struggled at as an industry. So why will now be different? How how is the industry helping to solve that issue? And, you know, simple is something that we keep trying to hear. But, you know, actually, achieving it is pretty >> challenge. I think it's fundamentally realizing that the core large enterprises in the world today are using mainframes, right, and some of them have tried to migrate. Something's off, and it's not about complexity of migrating it off. It's about whether or not you can land somewhere that has that same security throughput, resiliency, all that kind of stuff. But if you recognize that you're gonna have these systems interacting and you recognize that we have to make it easier for people whether they're coming out of university or they're coming from a background of distributed or open source, you want to make it easier to interact. It's what's informing everything we do in our strategy and mainframe. So we talk about open, frictionless and optimized. So it's all about the idea of that mainframe system and those processes that were running, whether it's Dev ops, whether it's, you know, databases and tools, whatever we're doing, the security, the analytics that we're doing that has to be open and be able to interact with other people's tools as well as other people's platforms. Frictionless is all about the idea of you got to make it easy to do that interaction somebody that comes at this from a non mainframe context that maybe knows I calm the cartoon characters of open source. You know, get your gold for Jenkins or whatever, right that they can use that to interact with the mainframe and leverage it, and then you want to be optimized. You want to make it for the real deep technical professional to get the most out of it and focus where the expertise is, or for the novice cannot really have to need training wheels, but to be able to ride that bike right away and perform the things. So all these things you can see how their kind of informed and setting that tone of thinking about, ah, hybrid environment and connecting that mainframe in, across, not sitting as an island unto itself, >> I mean, you bring up a good point. A couple points, One is distributed. Computing has been around for a while. Mainframes. I mean, I'm old enough to remember that I was private client server way. We see the point of the main finger. >> You're gonna be >> dead soon. Most of all, kind of went away that, but it never died, right? We all know, but there's a renaissance. Rumors of my death are greatly, exactly. A lot of them didn't go down, but they were, but they were really died. But but here's the thing. There's a renaissance and mainframe because of cloud computing and cloud operations. If everything's cloud operationalized, then essentially you have a big one. Big distribute computer call resource and edges that are subsystem. So the notion of buying a mainframe isn't a platform decision. It's a right tool. The right job kind of decision, so people are not looking at mainframes was a bad decision. If it fits right, that's not like everyone should buy made friends. But if you need it, the horse power, the question is begs. The question is, why is there a renaissance and mainframes? What's the reason why people are buying them? Is it because it fits into a certain position? Is that certain scale? Is it because they could plug right into the cloud and be a big resource? >> I think there's I think there's also, ah, realization, you know, think about if you're the the newer CEO, our CTO, and you start looking at your state and you realize that you know this mainframe thing thatyou're spending twenty percent of your budget on is actually doing seventy percent of your process that you kind of look at it and you go. We'll work really cost effective. So then you start looking at? Well, where is it most cost effective. And does it make sense to use, Use it there. And then when you could tie it into everything else, when you can can get the same types of security tools and lock it down and locked the interaction down you say, Hey, this might, But this might make sense for me to do it. And I think it just ends up being dollars and cents and then the resiliency, right? I mean, when people aren't having that downtime >> plate, you're going to run your business. You want up time. If you're any commerce, you want high stamp your systems. So it really is the right tool for the world, like a thing for the right job. Is this happening? Give us the update on our people, buying more reason because it's just it's better. >> I think part of it also is, you know, why fix what isn't broken, right? The main friends running there, It's up. It's provided transactions. I think he used to have used to have this impediment to getting access, to need to find some old global guy, you need to find all this other stuff because you had your business, >> Cobol programmers. But now it runs analytics. >> It's like a It's like a foreign language to some people, right? You say Kobol was like, after one Chinese. So what? We've done those We've made it. So you don't have to learn. Cobell. You don't have to learn some specialized thing. You can come in with a prize. You come in with the technology, they teach kids and, you know, elementary school t use Java script and other kinds of things to come in access. So same things that are now in the mean >> it's basically a big iron and the old expression, big horsepower, >> horsepower, high throughput, high resiliency. >> Greg, I heard you talk about things like Dev ops that you fit in this environment. Absolutely. We've attracted. I remember, you know, when you nosy lennix on mainframe rolled out fifteen years ago. You want to do the cool new dock? Er, you know things? Absolutely. But if I look at the death ofthe people, people that are going to pay for this a lot of times they say, Well, I'm used to more that cloud model. How do I get? You know, they moved to an off ex model. We're still early in that trend, but, you know, Dizzy Syria's mainframe. Will it fit into the new modern paradigm? From a CFO standpoint, >> I definitely think so. If you if you look at a lot of the stuff that's going on in the marketplace and even concepts that we're testing with clients today around, you know you can refer to it as consumption based pricing or value based pricing, you know, looking at how much you're actually using and then charging for that with a known, you know, Hey, if I grow my capacity this much, how much am I going to pay or if I go down? I'm not going to be able to redeploy those dollars elsewhere. All those constructs are stuff that we're working with customers today on. So it is very much the idea of a cloud like environment that can either be delivered on creme through you buying your own hardware or, you know there's IBM that as easy cloud, there's folks like in so no its center that have clouds that have mainframe up in them today. >> And the developer environment clearly is going towards infrastructures code, which is the abstraction away? Just programmable infrastructure. They don't care where it was fast, right? Doesn't matter. Does it really matter >> how I look? Way contributed, too. Zoe Bright side, right? That was the command line interface, and everybody was like, Oh, my God, You know, they thought maybe we had some executives that were sitting back that had this brilliant idea. We were actually using out agile methodologies in our development, and we gave in each programming increment. We gave the engineers time to do what they wanted to do. You know, one sprint per cycle. And some of our young developers said, You know what I wish I could use, Get Jenkins and gulp and tie them into Endeavor or these other Dev ops tools or it stops tools. They developed it as an internal use tool for a command line, and we've stumbled over on accent. We said, Oh my God, this is thing We think something we think customers would want. And then, as we got talking with Rocket with IBM, Rocket had a Web interface, IBM at the mediation layer and we said, Holy cow, You know, this is something. If we got together, we contributed. We could really start a renaissance around mainframe, and a lot of people are going What? Why you've got proprietary tools and software. Why would you open up? Because the reality is we want our customers to find it easier to work with the mainframe and look out compete on the differentiation of my underlying lying product, whether it be price or function. But I want my customers to be able to tie in my software with IBM with rockets with rooms out whomever and picked because of where the value is, not because they feel locked in >> its You're going about one >> of the gripes about mainframe, right? People thought they were locked in >> lock and proprietary weird interfaces freshen, You take the friction away >> and that's not that's your father's >> mainframe. That's not today's May in front of that was exactly the old. The only kind of perception, right? We bring Lennox and all these tools and infrastructures. Code is just another resource on the network. Guys. Thanks for the insight. Appreciate Left home My mainframe. My God made my day here. So I'm free clad world final. Give a plug quickly for Broadcom. What, you guys working on. What's the big news here for you guys? Give a quick. >> Hey, I'll tell you for me, Broadcom acquiring the mainframe business is all about investment. And, I mean, we're a software business, So more than ninety percent of my expenses people, if I'm not hiring, I'm full of it. I'm not investing. I'm hiring were posted like crazy. We're hiring, We're expanding to the team, and the idea is all about there's customers have used core products for many years, and they want to count on him for many years to come. Were making those investments, and we're going to continue to invest in the new capabilities dealt, make more efficient, effective on the platform. >> Your thoughts, >> you know, I >> mean, I think that you know that, you know, it's interesting. You look a broad, calm, and a lot of people don't know. You know what's the focus right there? They're not traditionally the software space, and so >> on. They are the >> first thing you well, they are now. And one of the things that we're doing this if you look at our investment rate in R and D in general, it's up there. I mean, world class. If you look at the largest your most successful cloud players forget about, you know, your large cap. Take protect companies to sell in terms of percentage of our percentage of revenue. They spend it R and B. We're far above that. We're at a very high level. We're going to continue to invest in a lot of innovation, you know? Aye, aye. Machine Learning Dev. Ops, of course. You know, curious security is >> a cultural shift. We could see vinyl records. We're gonna come back now. You got mainframe back. How much back can I get a mainframe for? If I want to be the new cool kid on the block, you >> got to go to IBM >> for the hardware. But I could talk to you about yourself or to help you with it. You gotta mean faith for the Cube. Just have one in our house. Thanks, guys. I appreciate it. Thanks. Pleasure. You covered your talking mean freeze and IBM Think software. Lynn Nix, The new World Cloud Data. I I'm John's First Amendment back with more coverage after this short break