(upbeat electronic. music) >> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE covering VMworld 2017 brought to you by VMware and it's Ecosystem partners. >> Hi, I'm Stu Miniman here with Keith Townsend and you're watching theCUBE's broadcast of VMworld 2017. One of our guests earlier this week called this set the punk rock set and one of my guests here in a preview said that this is going to be the battle of the baldies (laughter) so I'm really happy to bring two leaders of two of the hottest topics being discussed this week, welcoming back to the program Dom Delfino of course representing NSX and Security at NSBU and Lee Caswell from the vSAN Team. Gentlemen, thanks so much for joining us. >> Stu, how are you, buddy? >> I'm doing phenomenal. Dom, are you making network great again, yet? >> It's fantastic again now. We're making network fantastic again. >> Yeah and I expected you to show up a little more bling because we were talking Silicon Valley. Your group is reaching the three commas of a billion dollars. >> Dom: That's right. >> So let's start there, NSE when it was bought a few years back, over a million dollars. SDN was something that we all in the networking world was talking about and things have changed. I don't hear SDN talked at this show, it's real customers, real deployments, pretty good scale. The interconnected fabric if you will for VM's cloud strategy. >> Yep, absolutely. So Stu, these major transformational shifts in the industry take time, right? You know, you're not going to undo what you've done for the last 25, 30 years in a month or a quarter or a year and I think what you saw initially was adoption of NSX or automation of network provisioning. Then what you saw second to that was microsegmentation as a defense in depth strategy for our customers and now you see the multi data center moving into the hybrid cloud. vRNI is a service, NSX is a service, App Defense, layering additional security capabilities on top of that and as our production customers sort of adopted it in the beachhead methodology operationalized it, you see additional follow on adoptions. We've got one customer running 18 data centers on NSX today so this is becoming more and more mainstream and as you look at our approach moving forward in terms of where we are and the software defines us in our journey, how that connects to our strategy for VMC on AWS or VMC on Blue Mix. You saw Agredo Apenzeller yesterday demonstrate crossed into Microsoft Azure. When was the last time you thought you'd see that at VMworld, huh? >> Hey Lee, I got to bring you in here. (laughter) It's funny, I've lived in the storage world. >> I thought this was a storage show. >> And now we're tech people throwing all these acronyms. >> I know, they're so excited. >> And you know because come on, NSX is not simple. Who's the one that's saving customers money so that they can buy all of these? >> NSX is a great value, but vSAN pays for the ride, right? >> Here we go, right? >> They do. We'll happily accept it. >> I mean, we're consolidating storage in a way that basically brings back the magic of consolidation, right? The first time you consolidated, people called it magic because you consolidated servers, bought shared storage and had money left over, right? Now we're doing the same thing again, right, with now storage, right? What's interesting is is this is a huge career path gain for the virtualization administrator. >> Wow, so talking about being disruptive, vSAN. You know, I've got to rib you guys a little bit at the dodge ball tournament benefiting Unoria, the vSAN team lost to the Dell EMC team, so. >> Can you imagine? And did you see how valiant we were? >> Dom: You guys fall hard. >> You fall hard. (laughter) >> You looked like you could have used a little youth on that team, by the way, Lee. >> So a lot of competition, you walked the show floor. >> Lee: Yeah. >> This, we usually call this storage world. I think it's fair to say it's HCI world now. >> Lee: It's amazing, right? >> How is vSAN fitting into the larger ecosystem? >> You know, we announced, Pat said we have over 10,000 customers now, right? And yet VMware has hundreds of thousands of customers right? So we're just getting started here and what you're finding is the two assets to bring to this party are a hypervisor or a server. >> Keith: Right. >> Right, you don't have either one of those, it's going to be very difficult because if you go back and you'll appreciate this, right? You remember a Type 2 hypervisor? >> Yep, vaguely. I almost wrote about it, like wait, they don't even exist anymore, do they? >> Well, Workstation still, right? If you start thinking, right, that was a hypervisor on a guest, right? And so what happened though, as soon as these XI came out, right, integrated the compelling performance advantages, the resource utilization and then the idea that hey, I got a common management through vCenter, right? That's what's playing right now is users are trying to find leverage and scale, how do I do that and that's where we've just seen a massive adoption of ECM. >> Alright, one of the reasons we brought the two of you together though is because while peanut butter and chocolate are great on their own, the cloud foundation. >> Dom: I have the whole sandwich now, Stu. >> Yes, yes, so you know Cloud Foundation, NSX might be the interconnective fabric between all of them. Cloud Foundation is that solution, there's a whole business unit, put that together and drive that, so talk about how you feed that solution, how that changes the way you think about it. >> Probably the most interesting thing and I've only had the vSAN team for six months but I think the most interesting thing for me and vSAN is it scales downmarket very well as well, so we have massive enterprise customers, right, who have large global deployments of vSAN but you can take vSAN, put it on three nodes and see value out of that, right? And I think when you look at, you know, this is the year of cloud reality I'm calling it now, Stu, right? That's what's happened here this weekend at VMworld. When you look at that I think the most fundamental thing the customers are taking out of this week is my private cloud has to be as good as the public cloud offering, okay? Now if you're a Fortune 1,000 customer you certainly have a lot of resources, a lot of talent, a lot of expertise, a lot of history, and potentially a lot of budget to throw at that problem. But if you're a mid-market customer, right? And you look at I need to build a private cloud that's fast and easy, right? Which was the two primary reasons to adopt public cloud, you have a good place to start with Cloud Foundation and I think it's just the beginning so you get vSphere, you get NSX, you get vSAN, and you get SDDC Manager to do life cycle management, certainly you could layer vRealize on top of that for automation, orchestration, provisioning and self service as well and it really allows everybody to start to take advantage of the capabilities that only existed in the major cloud providers before on-prem and their own data center so I think as you look at Cloud Foundation and I'm working very closely with John Gilmartin on this, moving forward, it is going to become the basic foundational element, pun intended, right, for many of the VMware offerings moving forward as we turn into next year, that we'd look at this very closely and we have a lot of plans as that being the base to build off of in terms of how we help our customers get to this private cloud. >> Lee, I need to hear your perspective because some of this Cloud Foundation, there's got to be some differences when you talk about some of the deployment models whether where I'm doing it, how I'm doing it, VMC, the VMware managed cloud I guess on AWS, VMware on AWS something getting a lot of buzz. You know, everybody's digging into to it. What's it do today, what's it going to do in the future? >> Well, you know I thought it was really impressive when Andy Jassy got up and basically said, "We've been faced with a minor choice." Customers want these to be integrated, right? And the second day was Google, right? Talking about how we're taking developer tools, right, and making them common, so that element. Now storage people think that the strategic engagement with the cloud is about data, right? >> Stu: Right. >> Putting a VM in the cloud, I mean that's a credit card transaction, but once you put your first byte of data into the cloud, now you take on sovereignty issues, you think about performance and where you're going to get guaranteed ihovs out of it. You start thinking about how am I going to move that data? It's not fast or free or as anyone who has emailed a video knows, right, so you start thinking that it's the data elements and now what's really powerful and we saw some of this in the demos in general session. Once you have a common data structure, we call it dSAN, right, all the way from the edge into the data center of virtual private cloud then into the public cloud, now I've got the opportunity to have this really flexible fluid system, right? All virtualized, it's so powerful, right? About how I can manage that and we think, it'll be interesting, does the virtualization administrator then become the cloud administrator, right? >> So then, let's expand that one, vSAN everywhere. vSAN in the AWS, vSAN in vCAN, vSAN in my own data center. How do I protect that data? That seems just, is this where NSX comes in? How do I protect that data? >> Can we let Lee talk the security first? >> Where's the security, is the security in vSAN? >> Cause I know Dom >> We'll let Lee go first and then I'll correct him, okay? (laughter) >> Well, I mean you start with a security like encryption on the data, right? I mean one of the things why vSAN's so portable is because there is no hardware dependency. I mean, we're using like all, we support all different servers, there's no proprietary cards or anything, right, to stick in these servers so we can go run that software wherever. Now, we're also then as a result doing software encryption with our latest release on 6.6 software encryption allows us to use common key management partners, right, and so we use those partners including iTrust, Vales, FlowMetric, and others and now you can have key management regardless of where your data resides, so we start there but then what customers say really quickly, right, is if I start moving something, they say, "NSX help me out, right?" >> So I think Lee took to a very critical part of it, the ability to encrypt that data at rest and you know, as it transits, there's really three elements to this, it's the data itself, which we say that 6.6 introduced, right, the ability to encrypt that data, microsegmentation and upcoming DNE to both protect and encrypt that data while it's in flight and now if you look at that App Defense strategy, right, it's to secure that data while it's being processed as well at the host level up at the application layer, so I think Stu this just continues to be a huge challenge for our customers. Particularly with the breeches, we saw what happened with Wannacry, with Pedia, with non-Pedia, the different versions of that, Electric Blue and all. >> Stop, you know, your boss who's on theCUBE on the other set right now said, "As an industry, we have failed you." Pat Gelson gave the keynote, so when we're solving it, you know we're going to have like next year I expect both of you to have this all fixed. >> One of these, you asked like with all the HCI enthusiasts that are out there in many companies, you know, how do we differentiate? Well, part of it is this is not just a drop in a little box, right, someplace, right? This is how do you go and modernize your data center, basically tie into the complete software stack and regardless of the timing in which you're going to go and deploy that, right, if you're going to deploy the full stack today, that's a VMware cloud foundation, awesome, if you want to go start with vSAN, great, and then add in other pieces, or you can start with NSX. In any event, the common management is the piece that we really think is going to go and set us apart, right, as a part of it's an infrastructure play, not just a point component. >> So? >> Hold on I want to let Don finish. >> Stu, I think three years ago if we sat down here and told you you're going to encrypt your software defined storage, in software, no hardware requirements, I probably would have said I was nuts for saying that and you definitely would have said I was nuts for saying that so this is critical and we are hyper-focused on solving this problem and what customers have to recognize is that you have to make some foundational architectural changes in order to fix this problem and if you don't it's not going away, it's only going to get worse. >> So, I took a peep in at FUTURE:NET. First off, VMware does an awesome job of this conference within a conference. >> Isn't it fun? >> It is fun, a little bit over my head at times, which we have to be getting that same reaction from the CIOs that this stuff even when we're taking stuff that we know very well, Vmware or vSphere, starting with that, adding on vSAN, again the conversation, Dom, we can encrypt at both network and compute and storage? That's a little deep, but now we're talking about this crosscloud conversation that FUTURE:NET is most definitely addressing. How is that conversation going with customers? Are they finally starting to get their arms around the complexity of the situation? >> Absolutely Keith, because when you look at our multi-data center functions of NSX that we introduced back in NSX 6.2 at VMworld two years ago, three years ago, I'm getting long in the tooth here, so I can't remember times anymore. Those were the foundational elements for the components of crosscloud today so many customers who started the NSX journey with one use case and one data center and expanded it horizontally and then down through a number of use cases and then across to another data center are already taking advantage of those crosscloud functionalities from private data center to private data center. Now we've just taken them and extended them into Google Cloud, Azure, and AWS as well. So the customers who've been on this journey with us from the beginning have seen this step by step and it doesn't really seem like a big leap to them already. Now obviously if you haven't been on that journey it seems like you know, hey can you guys really do this and yeah, we've been doing it from private data center to private data center, now we're just bringing that capability to public data center and certainly the partnership with Amazon is a tremendous help to that as well. >> Yeah, when customers are buying into these solutions, and I know you like to look at it as a platform, so let's look out a little bit. I want you to talk a little bit about what we should expect from the future, if it makes edge computing kind of IoT is a big one, I have to expect that both of you have a play there, so? >> I guess I'll touch on that in two pieces so you sort of see us extending this up a little bit initially with PKS with pivotal container services, with Kubernetes on BOSH and the ability to do rolling upgrades and NSX is embedded in that solution, right, it's not a built-on offering, it's natively part of that for all the reasons that we talked about earlier and we see a lot of opportunities as it relates to edge computing, right, and I think this is something that, wasn't it file computing like seven years ago, Stu? >> Your former employer was one that was pushing that. >> Dom: Oh okay, yeah what happened to that? >> Yeah I have heard it come back from data center to cloud. >> I'm just needling you Stu, we didn't need to get into that. >> But you know, terminology does matter, but I hear your point. >> So I think A. IoT is the biggest security challenge that we face, right? >> Stu: Yep. >> That's number one. If you think it's bad now it's about to get a lot worse with the wholesale adoption of IoT. I think that when you look at the remote office, the branch office, what's going on with the transition with wide area networking right now, I think there's a tremendous opportunity there. Clearly we have a play where you can provide sort of a branch in a box with our technology but I think there's a lot of things you'll see coming from us in the near term as far as innovation that we can do there to really enhance edge computing as it relates to IoT and certainly our user computing platform with Horizon Air of the Legacy AirWatch venture, is an important part of securing those edge devices as well. >> Lee? >> On the vSAN side, this week we announced the HDI Acceleration Kit and that's basically a way to take advantage of single socket servers, right? And one of the things we're seeing for bandwidth reasons and economics you don't want to have everything centralized so the ability, particularly in an IoT environment, but also in retail or robo, if you've got hundreds of stores there's no way to put a sandbox and a fiber channel switch in separate storage and scale that, right? So what we're doing is we've got a very cost-effective license, right, incredible where you can get with hardware now, you can go and drop in a three node fully configured vSAN plus vSphere for under 25K. Drop it in, now you've got a virtualized environment, unlimited VMs, this sort of thing where we're helping basically bring the accelerating the adoption using HDI of enterprise modern infrastructure outside the data center. >> So last question around customer adoption and again, assessments of this model. The push, I think 816Z said that the edge is going to eat loud computing. Where do you guys see in the real world, the ground, is it a push towards the cloud or is it this combination of doing? >> In my experience, right and this is like an accordion, right, it goes in, it goes out it goes in, it goes out, why? Well it goes in and out based on economics and bandwidth. Right, so you start looking and saying, now until HDI came out, it just wasn't really feasible to put enterprise infrastructure at the edge, right? >> Keith: Right. >> So things were centralized, right? Well now, right, now we start distributing again, right? The cloud is an example of more centralized, right? But I think we're going to see both, right? And you're going to see this what's particularly interesting right now is right, the new advances in media, CPUS, low-latency networks makes it possible to use these I call it the serverization of storage, but really it's a serverization of the modern data center, right, and which by the way is common to how clouds are built. >> But does that mean the overall IT management or complex, as I build it out that control plane. >> I'll give you an example from this morning. I was meeting with one of the largest banks, right? And they were looking at HDI, they've used a lot of stance ORKS in the past and do you know what he asked at the end? "Could you give me the ORK charts of customers "in my scale who are using HDI?" >> Stu: Yeah. >> Because I want to go figure out how I hyper-converge my team. We'll never be fast until we go and get teams that are working more closely together where they start from the VM level and then they look at the network attributes and the storage attributes and the compute attributes. That's going to speed up everything. >> And I think Lee is 100% spot on there and every customer I've talked to this week, you have to make the transition to an infrastructure team, not a network team, a storage team, a security team, you're an infrastructure team, and this is why the app developers have been going around you, right? And this is why you have Shadow IT, it's because they want fast and simple and they don't want to have to deal with four different people, right? They don't want to have to deal with a serialization of a deployment that they're left waiting for the lag for and I think in terms of the edge computing, I think you related it to one of the conversations by Andreessen Horowitz. I think that might differ a little bit in the consumer space and in the enterprise space as well so it may be the case in the consumer space that it erodes some functionality from the cloud, particularly on the IoT side of things as well, driverless cars and things of that nature where it makes sense that if you get disconnected that you still need to have some computing capacity so you don't crash, right Lee? Crashing is not good. But I think the behavioral change, the people change, the mindset change is much more challenging than the technological change. Everything you haven't done before seems complicated until you actually do it, right? >> Alright well, we talked a lot to customers. Actually some of that organizational change is helping them to tackle things like those new architectures. Security is one that is I've been leaving it for too long and now absolutely front of the table. Don Delfino, Lee Caswell, always a pleasure to catch up with both you. >> Always a pleasure. >> Hope it lived up to your expectations that we brought the heat. Keith Townsend, I'm Stu Miniman. You're watching theCUBE, back with lots more coverage here from VMworld 2017. Thank you for watching the CUBE. (light electronic music)

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's the Cube, covering VMworld 2017, brought to you by VMware and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back everyone live, here in Las Vegas from VMworld 2017, I'm John Furrier of the Cube, live coverage of VMworld 2017 with my cohost Dave Vellante, next guest Dom Delfino, senior vice president of sales and systems engineering, Cube alum, great to see you, welcome back. >> Thanks guys, good to be here again. >> RAC are covering VMworld, the ecosystem has been a little tide goes out, tide comes in, real clarity this year, cloud, you want it on private cloud, public to private cloud or Amazon. >> Dom: Right. >> Any questions? >> Dom: Exactly. Clear. >> This is the vision coming to fruition. This is what you're seeing this year at VMworld. I think in particular when you talk to the customers, they're now in a state of cloud reality. There was sort of this big rush, I'm going to try to move as much to the public cloud as possible and then in terms of the scale they got there, they start to have then challenges on that side, they realize, I need to have a dual strategy. I need to have a private, a public, a hybrid strategy. I think you see all the announcements that we've made today, with DFC on AWS going live now, with more coming around the world in different zones as we progress throughout the rest of the year and into next year, as well as all the service offerings we just announced, Wave Run is a service, VRNI is a service, NSX is a service, app defense, which is our latest security strategy as well. Customers really see how it comes together now and they want to go down that journey with VMware. >> It's important too to clarify, I call the high level messaging, so it's got clarity, but also VMware and ecosystems has a lot under the hood and it can get very technical, so you got to balance the speeds and feeds to feed the red meat to all the practitioners and then the high level. I got to ask you the question because people that are sitting out there on this cloud reality that you mentioned, they don't have a lot of people sometimes. Someone's got to implement this stuff, automation's coming, okay I get that, but getting to the cloud is not easy. I still got to run my shop, what is that operational reality right now because cloud reality, okay I get it, but now I got to turn my on premise into a true private cloud with a new operating model, new practices, how are the VMware customers dealing with that? >> I think that's part of moving away from the legacy as fast as you can or at least where you have to keep it, you've got to sort of isolate it and put it in a corner because it's the legacy that's holding most of us back, right? Because I got to understand how to run the legacy, keep the lights on, that takes 20, 30, 40, 50% of my time, depending on the customer, depending on their infrastructure at the same time I've got to retool my skills, I've got to retool my tool kits that I use, my run books, my operational processes, but now they at least have a direction to build to. All the customer meetings we're having here today it's about software defined. How do I build this abstraction layer? Okay we've been doing this with VMware for years on the compute side, many of them have ventured down the journey with us on the NSX side, we see 10,000 customers roughly on the VSAN side as well and that's about putting together, putting the automation tool set around it and really building that same experience that they can get in the public cloud, which it's fast and it's easy on their on prem data centers as well. Sometimes there's many reasons to retain on the private side, data sovreignty, intellectual property, all of those things as well. I think that's where the customers are in the journey right now and it's now they feel comfortable with the direction and they're going to adopt quickly. >> I like this idea of cloud realities. We've been talking on the Cube today about configuring the cloud to the realities of your organization's data. You're talking about governance, security, data locality, etc. so it really comes back to a data challenge. You can't just take all your data and shove it up into the cloud. What are you seeing from customers in that regard? >> I think there's a regulatory component to that as well, particularly if you go overseas, to Europe and Asia, there's a lot more challenges around that as well. I think what you're seeing is that customers recognize the fact that not everything is going to go into the public cloud at this point, so they're really prioritizing, burstable work loads, temporary work loads, definitely a prime opportunity to put in the public cloud. New application development, definitely a primary opportunity to put in the cloud. If I'm in the health care business and I have to retain health care records for x number of years and I'm responsible for HIPPA compliance around them, maybe not something that I'm just going to shove up into the cloud today. It's use case specific depending on and application specific, depending on the vertical industry, the customer resides in and depending on where they are in their journey to the cloud as well. >> You've got a lot of momentum in your business right now. Basically you're on fire. We talked about the cloud realities, that's part of it. The AWS announcement last year, even though it was a year ahead of time, gave a lot of clarity to people. How much of the momentum is due to those factors? Again, the cloud reality, the fact that people are now more comfortable with your cloud strategy and saying okay, I'm willing to make maybe a multi-year commitment with VMware. Is that a factor? >> It is a factor, it is a factor and I think the two remaining components, accelerating and capturing momentum in the market of our SCDC strategy being VCN and NSX has also helped that reality come to fruition for customers as well. It is software defined, we've been talking about software defined data center for a long time, like everybody else in the industry, we talk about things sometimes a lot sooner than they come to fruition, but now that they put together VC ware with NSX with VSAN, and they say hey, I can actually build a private cloud that's fast and easy, which is the reason a lot of my IT people or my application developers were going around me, because the public cloud was faster and easier. Wasn't necessarily cheaper, but it was definitely faster and easier, now customers who've been on that journey with us for the last year realize they can offer the same thing on prem as well and take advantage of both. Does that make sense? >> Yeah. What's the biggest walk away for you right now, looking at VMware, if you had to talk to customers that are not here and looking at the online coverage, certainly Twitter you'll bump into a lot of Cube coverage and lot of pictures, lot of architectural slides. What's the big walk away so far, day one? >> I think tremendous innovation is the big walk away. In many different categories coming forward, you'll hear another big announcement tomorrow coming up in terms of what we'll be doing in conjunction with one of our sister companies in the application development world. But also about taking security to the next level with app defense, so microsegmentation has become fairly ubiquitously known within the industry now, how do I take that into the guest, into the operating system, into the application layer? How do I secure those things as well? You see a lot of customers getting hit with ransomware attacks this year, those are big reality checkers for you if you're the one sitting behind the keyboard that's got to defend your environment against that and rebuild it and I think they really see VMware continue to push the envelope to develop very innovative solutions to these approaches that are very cost effective and that are also very high performance. >> Personal question, as you're out in the field talking to customers, you've been in the industry for a while, you've seen the waves. What's the biggest thing that you notice, observe out there right now? What's happening? Share some color with the landscape in the marketplace. >> I think there's some good recognition from customers around the type of operational transformation that they're going to have to go through in this journey. It's not about the network independent from storage independent from security independent from computer anymore. Infrastructure is one entity, that's the way the application owners and the application developers view it and want to consume it, that's the way that infrastructure teams are going to have to deliver it. I think there's a lot of recognition of that. I think there's recognition that the security problem is bigger and badder and worse than ever and it's not going away any time soon and there's sort of no magic box. If there was, you'd pay a lot of money for it to make your problems go away, but it's really something that has to be ubiquitous. Infosect policy has to be aligned with infrastructure security implementation. I could have the greatest policy in the world, if I can't actually implement it, I'm not going to get the benefit to that security there. I think those are some of the things as well. I think sort of the container world is going through a little bit of the post high upcycle, what's the reality check of that environment as well right now, we saw this with open flow and SDN five and six years ago. >> John: Saw it on big data with Hadoub. It's so expensive to run, why even do it? At some point, it can be total cost ownership and ease of use, old school topics. >> We're well into production ready phase of software defined networking. We're well into the production ready phase of software defined storage and hyperconverge infrastructure we need to take containers into that next phase as well. >> Bottom line, what does cloud ready mean to an enterprise these days? >> Cloud ready means that application, that work load is portable and I can deliver the same level of availability, service and agility, whether it's in the public cloud or whether it's in my private data center. Or I move it back and forth between both. We're certainly excited about the momentum we see with our customers, I think you can see and hear the buzz around VMware going on this year and I think it's the best it's been in a few years. >> You run the SE team as well right? >> Dom: Yes I do. >> How does that work? SE's are like the Navy SEALS John always talks about on the beach, they, >> I like to call them the conscience of the sales force. >> There you go, right. Customer trusts them, but at the same time, they understand the customer requirements at a very deep level. How are they organized? How do they fit into the partner ecosystem, maybe you could explain that a little bit. >> Yeah I think traditionally we've organized our SE's, aligned them with product categories, so I've got networking and security SE's, I've got cloud management, automation, orchestration SE's and software defined storage SE's, but I think that sort of is the base line and then you start to build their skill sets toward solution, towards a solution. What types of solution? Is it containers on open stack? Is it VMware's STDC stack? Is it around particular vertical solutions? If you're an SE on my health care team, you're probably very focused on electronic health records and EPIC and Medtronic and different applications like that. How do you solve those customers' problems at the higher level and be able to drill down at the same time with the domain experts from those customers when they want to understand how OSPF works and NSX or they want to understand how lund creation works in VSAN. It's sort of an evolution in terms of building skills. You've got to start at the deepest levels and then you got to build to how those products and those technologies integrate together to provide the customer with a solution. >> So as you move toward this multi cloud word, throwing another buzz word, but is this cloud architect like SE role emerging? >> We'll call them a solution architect. That solution may be a cloud solution, it may be a vertical solution targeted at a specific customer base and make sure that we do what's appropriate to serve our customers. >> John: What's the coolest thing you've worked on this year? >> I've got to think that app defense is the coolest thing that we've got out this year. I think that we've solved a lot of problems with microsegmentation from a network security perspective. I think now going up into the guest and into the application layer and providing an analogous functionality there is going to be really a very very prevalent way of preventing breaches, malware, malware propagation, ransomware in the future as well. I'm a little bit of a security geek, it's attractive to me. I really see that as just an ongoing, it's not even a battle anymore, it's a war now for our customers. We want to help them win that war. >> John: Ransomware has been so brutal. >> Ransomware's been brutal and I mean, see customers almost going out of business. >> Well it's become a board-level topic overnight. It is a serious board-level topic, not just lip service. You're seeing that right? >> You will see in some circumstances boards actually pulling the chief information security officer out of IT and having them report directly to the board. >> Well it makes a lot of sense. >> John: The pressure is unbelievable. >> The pressure is unbelievable right? >> In a lot of regards you would think that the CSO certainly should not report to the CIO, it's kind of like the fox watching the hen house dynamic. Maybe that's not the best analogy, but there should be an inherent tension there number one, but number two is what's the right regime? Why is it IT's problem? It shouldn't be. >> Yeah I think it goes back to information security policy versus actual implementation and the gap that's existed between those two for years for many reasons, networking being a flagrant issue in that context, where I could say oh, this application, this user needs to talk to this application, this application needs to this set of data. How do we implement that? That's not the easiest thing with the tool set that customers who run legacy networks have had historically. I think now that we have some of those things, you'll see the scenario I just described where a few organizations are pulling the CSO out of IT and reporting to the board or some, we've seen board level mandates for segmentation initiatives within the technology area as well so I think this is going to be an ongoing battle that we face moving forward. >> This is the biggest problem I would say at the Cube all day long because part of the value proposition of cloud and dev ops and apps is having data in real time. To be liberal with the data, you run the risk of opening it up so you can't do it the old way. >> Part of the cloud adoption and the new wave of applications about moving these businesses forward, the security is one of those things that will move you backwards from where you are today. I think it's important that we be able to tackle all these battles on all different fronts at the same time. >> If I may, I know we got to go, but there's another dynamic as well which is the recognition that we are going to get penetrated and yet I think it was the third leg of Pat's slide today was response. Boards are saying it's not if, it's when. How do we respond? That's a critical part of the implementation. >> I think it's, we talk about IOT. Think about the number of new entry points you create into your infrastructure, every device you connect to the network itself. Keeping them out is a huge challenge. The question is what can you do as the owner/operator once they are inside? How do you limit, how do you restrict the level of risk that you have and exposure you have to your data, to your applications to your customer information, so on and so forth and I think that's what we've brought to the table in a substantial way with microsegmentation with NSX and I think you'll see that continue to really raise the game with app defense as well. >> Dom Delfino, great to have you, great color, great commentary, you're like a pro. He's just like a anchor with us, SportsCenter >> If Pat fires me am I in? No? >> John: You're in. >> All right. >> Pat fire him so we can hire him. >> John: Don't fire me, Pat, I like my job. >> Dom, thanks so much, good coverage, always great. >> Dave: Thank you, pleasure. >> Bringing a great attitude to the Cube, great energy. More come, day one as we continue down, wind down day one and three days of wall to wall coverage with the Cube VMworld two sets, double barrel shotgun of content here at the Cube, we'll be back with more after this short break. (electronic music)