>>Yeah, >>from the Cube Studios in Palo Alto and Boston. It's the Cube covering IBM. Think brought to you by IBM. >>Welcome back to IBM. Think 2020. The global experience. My name, Stupid man. And happy to welcome to the program. Aaron Bobick, who is the vice president and chief design officer for the IBM Cloud Data and AI portfolios. Thank you so much for joining us. >>Thank you, Steven. Great to >>be here. Alright. So I always love talking to design people. My background is engineering. I said on the Cube a couple of times I feel they didn't really teach us in school enough about design. We all know on the consumer side, when you have >>a >>phenomenal technology and beautiful designed together, it's an amazing experience. So you've got a brought purview. You've had a very diverse background. Help us understand. You know what a chief design office they're across, you know, cloud and Data and ai is responsible for >>so in a in a just my job is to really ensure that we design and develop usable and meaningful experiences for our users. Finds customers and partners in the little mawf cloud in the eye both evolving technologies. Um, adoption challenges here and there, and our job is to simplify >>the complex and the network. Okay, that's awesome. You know, I think back, you know, early web days, you know, we were happy if we just had a u I let alone Didn't think about the ux experience there. So you know, what are some of the important things? You know, what? What's IBM looking at? To make sure that that user interface is something that is Yeah. >>So I'll take a step back. And question is doing Say that, you know, in the sounding times while we're still figuring out new ways stood up So to get work done and really get the essence off being more productive design is there to help figure out a solution to these human, because at the end of it, design is really an expression of intent and intend to help solve the problem and overcome everyday challenges. So, you know, be at IBM is basically focusing on helping our users and partners and customers be more productive. And the feeling is that design has become really important to IBM, not just IBM does. Other landed companies are having great advantages. So if I just call it a few studies in a recent guard from the study found that 89% of companies that they would focus and you extend them apart. So this is about differentiation by design the second Forrester Little study, and they found that 70% of projects fail because of poor us, and that's a huge number. There's also city by the GM of the Design Management Institute that says that design that companies are poor home S and P 500 by 20. So all in all this is that design is now a very important aspect of how we go to market, and it's essential. The good news. IBM has always been part of Indiana money for ponderous Thomas. What Jr said, Good design is good business, though We're in it for the long run. >>Yeah, obviously a long history. There are over 100 years of focus on that. So one of the big themes we've heard the last couple of years, you know, see X. That's about that customer experience and not only the external customers but the internal customers we're talking about, you know, support agents and the like. So how is IBM making sure that it is on the leading edge for the >>great questions to over the last? I would say a good 10 years. We really work hard to develop a culture off designing, design, thinking and close by IBM. Whether it's product development, the services we offer support. We work with customers pretty much every touch point of the user has with us. Design has had an influence in it. To get to where we are today, we had to go hire a whole bunch of formally trained designers. We're working across more than 50 plus global design studio to bring in diversity and part of an idea. And at the end of the day, it's not about this confidence in craft. It's also what the baby work. So we had to hire designers, but we also changing the way IBM offers across organizations work. The level of the strain were called the Enterprise Design Thinking Framework, which is essentially our take a human centered design. Build a scale for the enterprise, so the enterprise is a key element here. The practices we've developed using those frameworks helps our team collaborate better keeping the users and their need at the center of everything we do. But it's not just for us. We also developed it for generally everyone. So if anyone wants to take it up, they could try IBM dot com slash design thinking and give it a shot. And through all of these, we have managed to see some incredible progress internally across organizations with alignment and go to market. But we've also seen some great progress that internally as well, case in point over 20 international designer words for design in the Enterprise. But with the last two years across the portfolio, So it's been a fun ride and our focus for customer experience because the endpoints, all the touchpoints has really given us >>a lot of minutes. Well, congratulations on the award is there. We know enterprises are particular and challenging there. They're not necessarily the first to deploy something new. But one of the big discussions we've had for years when you talk about Cloud and AI is a skill set and training. So what are some of the unique challenges that you have from a design stand point in the enterprise? >>I think the answer to your question is in your question, and it comes down to the enterprise. Enterprise is unique in many different ways, right? First of all, it's about mission critical needs, and second is about productivity. Our minds and the users are coming to us to help them solve these massive, complex challenges and problems, from data management to automation to modernization, to being on the cloud or adopting AI. They're really looking detained, the way they work and at scale. This means that we, as designers and at IBM, have to really take the time to understand the users, to see what their pain points are detected environments and the context of the working so that IBM can ultimately >>help solve the conflict. >>No, that's one part second because it's in the enterprise but also dealing with the fact that technology is evolving at a very rapid pace. Thinking about containers, ai Blockchain, you name it and we know that in order to meet the needs of this modern day age workers, we really need to think out of the box and be a little bit ahead of the curve designed for collaboration and the adoption of these emerging technologies without adding a huge learning curve, but that's a challenge as well. How do we adopt technologies without adding learning curves? So as a profession in design, we have to keep up with it, adopt and constantly lead with innovation. In essence, you know, designing for the enterprise brings interesting and unique challenges, and IBM is >>up for it. Well, you know, it sounds great to talk about just having a design that is super easy. And people get, um I'm wondering if you have any, any tips that you could have out there because, you know, I know myself. I'm always Frank, talk to other people, understand what they're doing. And sometimes it's like, Oh, well, today I learned this, and I wish I had learned this two years ago because, boy, you saved me, you know, an hour, a week of my time when I did this. And it's one of things I enjoy doing is trying to help people with short cuts or new ways of doing things. So we get set in our ways when we learn a new technology that tends to be where it fossilized in our brain, and it's upto look at something with fresh eyes and say, Oh, I got an update G. Maybe I should press that button and or float over and to understand what it does. Is there any any guidance that you can have? Is how do you make it simple and intuitive yet overcoming all of the legacy that we have when when we come into it with what interfaces were used? >>I do think that designers have this unique talent of being able to connect the dots, and that's our superpower. So in terms of tips I would take get to know your users get to know them really, really well, think about what exactly are their blockers and then think about technology and see how it can solve that over to connect the dots. So just to give an example. And I was talking about sort of design being broader than this interface design, you know in IBM started reacting to over 19. We need a lot of things. One of the things we did was we kinda defined solution to improve human computer interaction, very using sort of AI technologies like Watson Assistant and Children's Hospitals to help answer the huge number of questions coming in around 19. So from that standpoint, design is about beyond interfaces. And I feel if we take a step back and figure out, what problem are we trying to solve here? And how do we ensure that the users mental model off the things that they used to using in the everyday use, like 20 maps? How can you bring in those innovations back in the enterprise? That issue? >>Okay, you mentioned technologies are changing so fast, you know, AI containers loud. How's your team keeping up with all of this? You know, the pace of change and stop for a drop. You know, we're in S T I C D model these days. So what's the role of the designer in both? Keeping up with the new things and making sure that you know you're helping the user along the way. >>Fortunately, IBM we have a few advantages in having a broader organization called IBM Research. And IBM Research is a little bit forward facing, and they try to predict the uptake of technology that we have a little bit of a heads up on stage now that is a quantum computing, and such as Well, we got enough up there to as a designer. The inherent trade for designers to be curious and Barbara curiosity is to make sure that we learned, and we can combine them and instead of you bring in a sponge. And I think the fact that designers have this golden acid of empathy is very tender and used, and these superpowers to work with designers in other parts of the business, depending the doctor. But how can we not only solve? The problem is we see it but also solve the problems that are not visible. So the later needs of users. So I feel in a lot of different ways. Designers, you know, >>I >>have to be curious there to solve complex problems, and they have to keep up with technology. It's decimated. >>Yeah, I'm curious. It's exciting times. What excites you about the field of design these days? >>I had no Let me take a step back. Your question at the heart of it. I believe that I'm a designer because I believe we can design solutions that impacts people's lives. So in some ways we are adding to a value of human life, and that's what you mean to design and especially in enterprise design, is about that complexity if the messiness off, complex infrastructure and business use cases and localization and globalization is a really hairy problem. So I feel from an intellectual standpoint, this gives me a way to use my that are curious mind as well as my expertise to help solve this problem. So that's what drew me into >>delight. Excellent. Well, so much going on at IBM Think this week I want to give you the final word. What message do you want to share with IBM users, customers and business partners? >>Thank you. Stupid opportunity. Of course. I want to say thank you. Thank you for believing in us for being a North Star. You are The reason why we've invested so much in design and user experience really make our lives better and your willingness to sort of work alongside us every step of the way. It's really appreciate it. I mean, we tend to really feel that you see with us, so help us innovate, help us bring in great experiences that help you get your business are so on that note. If I could do a little shout out to want to be for our customers and prospects here who are listening in the joining on the user experience program. So we can co create experiences with you to solve your problems and hopefully build solutions that you love. Check out the link IBM that based on these experiences, the easy sign up and the second thing that popped a little bit of a user research like invite you to join in on the research about your journey here is that it's still involving field. I understand we're all going to challenges in adopting AI. Let's all learn, share and help each other and infusing AI in your enterprise. Thank you for being >>part of our innovation journey. Excellent. Well, thank you so much for sharing with our community. This update love the fusion of technology and design co creations. One of our favorite words when we talk about this part of the model that we do on the Cube. So thank you so much for joining us. Thank you. All right. Lots more coverage from IBM. Think 2020 The global experience. I'm stupid, man. And thank you for watching the Cube. >>Yeah, Yeah, yeah, yeah

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's The Cube, covering IBM Think 2018, brought to you by IBM. (lively music) >> Hello everyone, welcome back to The Cube. We're here live in Las Vegas for IBM Think 2018. It's where all the action's happening. Third day of three days, wall to wall coverage, I'm John Furrier, co-host of The Cube, we have two great guests here, Paul Papas, Global Leader of Digital Strategy at IBM's iX, new digital agency, and his cohort Matt Candy, European leader of IBM iX, a new agency within IBM specifically developed for expanding the digital services to their customers, to create the best experiences, using technology, data, and other analog and digital capabilities. Wimbledon and among others. Guys, welcome to The Cube. >> Thank you, thank you, and thanks for that great introduction. >> So Paul, so take a minute, this is a novel concept. When I think of agency I think ad agency, buy some keywords, PR firms, you know, more of an adjunct to a core organization, kind of a service provider. >> Yeah. >> You guys have it a little bit different agency focus, more like management consultants meets World Economic Forum, meets, you know, UX UI design, because you are building this company. Take a minute to explain what iX is, and what's different about it in context what people might think it is. >> Sure, and thanks, a great set up in there it's like you melded a lot in there of what we do. So you can think of us as a combination of strategy consultancy, digital agency, consulting systems integrator. So we do three things with our clients, we help them design, well we help them define, their digital strategies, really their business strategy in a digital world. We help them design world-class customer experiences. Experiences that are going to be personalized, and have an impact. And then lastly we help them implement the technology. Implement the customer platforms that they use to engage with their customers in a personalized, meaningful, omni-channel way, all of those things that we do help drive a measurable business impact so nothing we do is hypothetical, everything we do is real and drives a real business impact for our clients. So, where if you might look at an agency a lot of people think of agency as marketing communications agencies, and the world has changed so fast around digital, >> Or ad agencies. >> Or advertising agencies, you know, in that vein, we're on the more transformational side. In fact we consider ourselves a business design partner. So what we're trying to do with our clients around the world is help them redefine, redesign their businesses, so that they're fit for purpose, so that they can survive and thrive in this modern world. >> Yeah, I want to get your thoughts on this, because you know looking back as a historian if you will of evolution, technology used to be slower, so agencies added value on something complex, ad agencies would create ad campaigns and some glam, glamour around something. And we even saw it in some of the lead gen side of the business, where this beautiful micro-site and the graphics are amazing, it looked great but actually didn't scale there's no tech behind it. Now fast forward, you have the requirement for cool, relevant, and glamorous, but actually having tech involved. Cloud computing has really enabled this, and the role of data has really enabled it, so this is now the new normal, the new normal for these higher-end functionalities is actually having a tech stack, technology stack, combined with business engineering logic, >> Paul: Yeah. >> And real business outcome, like profit, money outcome objectives that people might want. How do you guys explain that story because, you know, I would just call a consultant up in the past, are you guys combining it to make it easier? What's the purpose that customers call you guys in for? What are they asking for from you guys? >> So I'll start off and then Matt, you can add color commentaries, so, the way we describe what you just, what you just brought to life there, was, we have multi-disciplinary teams, so we have a combination of business strategists right, so when our clients are engaging us, they could be working with a business strategist who's really comfortable showing up for work and wearing a suit and tie, and he could be sitting next to, in our studio, sitting next to one of our creative designers who's tattooed from his wrist to his neck. >> The hoodie guy building everything. >> The hoodie guy, right, sitting there building there, next to one of our data scientists who's popping open his Lenovo laptop, it's got the latest chip in it, and he's so pumped 'cause he's going to run some crazy data analytics on it, applying AI on top of it. And all of these people work together using Design Thinking so we have an approach we call IBM Design Thinking, they've all been trained, we've trained over 16 thousand people on Design Thinking, and they all work together and come together to solve our clients' ploblems. They work in a studio environment, and we've opened up 38 studios around the world. Studios are places where we co-create with our clients, or we invite our clients in to ideate, innovate and co-create >> So it's agile on the format, on the projects, not like Waterfall, hey now you pass the ball to the other guy, it's all integrated team. >> Yes, and what you end up having is, you end up having the view of understanding the business and the client's business challenge, which is where we start when we define the strategy, when we do the design work, it's underpinned with an understanding of the technology that's going to bring this to life. So we like to say that we don't do creative for creative's sake or creative just for the beauty of the art, we do creative that can actually be made real. >> Yeah, you guys put a relevant package together. So I got to ask you now, the beauty of cloud computing was, is that you don't have to provision a data center if you don't need it. Now you see people needing a data center for privacy reasons they store their data, hence the hybrid cloud strategy, et cetera et cetera, but if I want to do something like what you guys are doing, it's going to cost me money to build it out. One, where are the people? Skills of the people, salaries of the people, tools for the people, all that is expensive to build out. So it's natural to go to someone who's already got it. So I want you guys to talk about that dynamic, of buy versus build, what stays in-house that's core competency, and what's the scale leverage that the clients get from working with you guys, 'cause you have that advantage. >> Yeah, and actually what I like to tee up is, this cost effective approach that we use to help our clients jumpstart the work that they're doing, we call it an innovation garage, and Matt and the team in the UK and in Europe have really been champions of this approach. Why don't you share some of the work we do around innovation garages. >> Yeah, so, I mean, one example is our client BP who we've been working with in this space, and helping them drive a lot of the digital reinvention of their business. And so, teams of data scientists, designers, developers, working hand in hand with product owners from the client side but ideating, finding new different digital products and services that help improve advocacy of customers drive loyalty, drive new revenue streams but very quickly taking those ideas and turning them into prototypes right, paper prototypes, actual MVPs, minimum viable products, launching them into market right, choosing some target markets, but putting very measurable KPIs around each of those things >> What's the timetable on that roughly, ballpark? >> Probably getting those MVPs out at eight to 10 weeks right >> So, fast. >> Oh yeah, fast. >> It's not months, not eight months. >> No, no, there's no Waterfall. And so a radically different approach to getting things out there, in the hands of real users. And then testing and learning, iterating, and then based on the data, actual fact and data backed against those KPIs and measurements then starting taking the decision around whether we're going to scale that into a global product. >> Yeah before we go to drill down on that, what's the alternative to doing that? How many months would it take if I want to do it from scratch in-house? >> Spinning up large transformation programs right, and >> John: A year. >> Yeah, at least, multi-years >> John: At minimum. >> Multi-years, and I think the other thing John, that's kind of key about this way of working, is that you're starting to infuse new ways of working and new ways of thinking into the client's organization right, and so Design Thinking: lean, agile, dev ops, right all of these approaches to get things done in a more rapid way and so, you're kind of driving change and transformation through making and creating and doing, not through some big change management program. And so we've been, if I took BP for example, training and certifying their people in IBM Design Thinking, certifying them as product owners and so, through the act of making and creating these services, it's changing their culture and changing how they get stuff done and it's a bit like a fire, kind of a little fire that burns and spreads within the organization as people see what's going on and want to become part of it. >> And one of the ways we do that we actually co-locate in these innovation garages. So you take a company like BP, if you go to our South Bank office, we have a dedicated floor where you have a hundred BP people with the IBM iX team, working in this innovation garage model, >> So they're learning too with you it's not like you're doing all the work and they're integrating in. No, no, we're learning together and they're building new skills and we're building new skills, and we're coming up with new ideas and innovations we're doing it in a cost-effective way, to your point before, in the past companies would spend a lot of money to try to go down a big path and try to in essence, boil an ocean sometimes. >> Yeah and your one guy quits, you got to replace, skill gaps, massive challenges. >> But also I find that from the client's perspective the thing that they're most proud of, some of the things they're most proud of, is the bin, what they call the bin. And so it's all of those ideas that we've killed as far to the left as possible right, and taking an idea that traditionally may have turned into some big program, multi-millions spent on doing it to find that it actually didn't deliver the outcome for the end consumer. >> So Matt, talk about the example with Wimbledon 'cause obviously everyone kind of can recognize that brand, you guys have been working at Wimbledon, you have a relationship with them so they've known IBM for years. What's the current state of the art with Wimbledon? What are some of the things you're doing for those guys and how is iX team, your integrated design team, working with those guys? >> So we've been partnering with Wimbledon now for about 28 years, so relationship goes back to 1990, I mean Wimbledon's been around back since the 1870s, you know, the home of kind of tennis, tennis in an English garden, so complete with rain and drizzle and gray clouds and everything else. And so, probably over the last seven years we've been working with them to drive their digital transformation, and so, how they engage with fans, and so how they use data and analytics to drive insights to put very personalized experiences in the hands of fans. So if you think about an event like Wimbledon, runs for 13 days, and about 500 thousand people get to physically experience Wimbledon in the grounds. And so their whole strategy from a digital perspective is taking the beauty of the grounds and the experience, and how they can manifest that digitally to millions of people around the world. >> And that's more than live streaming that's more than highlights, that's replicating the vibe the buzz, the experience of being there. >> Completely, so if you look at the web channel right when you go to that website, you don't actually see tennis players and stuff on there. What you might see is a beautiful flower just wafting in the breeze right, so a lot of the technology and the experience that we put together is trying to bring to life the beauty of the grounds right, through those digital mediums. And also being very thoughtful and purposeful about the different channels, so when you think about the mobile app right people use that to get snack access to data they're on the move, they want to understand the scores, alerts, iPad, people tend to use that sat on the sofa in front of the telly, you know, second screen experience so there's a different set of use cases and demands. We launched the first Apple TV app for grand slam tennis tournaments. So again, people tend to be using that for catch up and replays and so, being very thoughtful and purposeful about the... >> And you got to keep track of the digital culture 'cause it's like fashion, you got to know what's state of the art, what's going to sell VR, AR, whole new creatives coming out >> You do but you also have to do it in a way that's authentic to the product. >> Tech fashion. (laughter) The latest and greatest. >> Hashtag new hashtag tech fashion But you also have to do it, what I was going to say, you have to do it in a way that's authentic to the brand that you're representing. >> John: And relevant. >> Correct, so we're expressing the brand of Wimbledon online through digital channels and mobile channels, it has to be consistent with the brand, the brand values, the brand purpose, the brand mission. >> And that goes in to the design side of it 'cause they're going to tell you look if we go off the brand, we're not... >> The beauty, the elegance, the elegance of the sport, the elegance of the All England Tennis Club, you have to capture all of that and represent it in a way that's genuine. >> Alright so this is where the melting pot between agency, creative, ad agency, where it's much more about experience, less about the tech, and tech come together. So I wanted to ask you, I did a panel this year at Sundance called the New Creative, with Intel and it was all about the emerging new creative artists that have tech behind it, and here's what we talked about, I want to get your reaction to it. Agile, which killed Waterfall development, made things less risky, the old days was, you build something, a lot of craftsmanship goes into it, but you ship it, you don't know if it's going to work, and you hope it works and sells. Then Agile de-risked that, but you're shipping code every day. But what we lost with Agile that's now coming back, and I think this is where you guys are hitting the mark, the idea of craftsmanship in the product is coming back. So you got Agile, that's good, but it felt boring, it felt, the products didn't feel great. Yeah, certainly they were successful and they used data to be agile and always be iterating, fail fast, et cetera, but now the users want craftsmanship, they want art, they want more experience in the tech product What's your reaction to that, what's your vision? Do you agree and, if you do, what's your opinion? >> Well I agree on the recommitment to craft, and the approach that we take to that is really starting with Design Thinking, and we view this a couple different ways. One, we think Design Thinking is a way to actually solve business problems in the modern world. Now design, we view as a craft. So we have very specific craftspeople that are pure designers, that's what they do every day for a living. Everyone in our organization practices Design Thinking. So I believe that the use of Design Thinking coupled with our design community and the world-class talent that we have there, has enabled to really get an underlying need, right. So when you're doing a design, you have to have the understanding of the underlying need of the customers that you're trying to serve. And that's what we really get at, so the craftsmanship that comes in through applying Design Thinking, applying your design principles to creating something that can then be made real and have an impact. If you ask our designers, in our 38 studios around the world what they love about being part of IBM iX and being part of IBM, it's the impact that they can have. That they can see their design scale, they can see it brought to life in a way that is far beyond anything they could've done at any agency >> Can't fake design, it's like security, you can't fake it, it either works or it doesn't. >> And the way we think about design right is about almost design with a capital D. And so it's not just about how things look and feel, it's about how they work, and so how you can apply design to help solve problems in a very different way right. And how you apply design to strategy because designers are problem solvers. And so actually having people apply a designer's mindset to problem solving, you end up with very different outcomes right, you end up with a lot more innovation driving into what you're building, and I think you end up with products and services that actually help make somebody's life a little bit easier right, you're taking friction out of their life you're delivering something meaningful and of value to them. >> You're doing empathy mapping, you're doing customer journey mapping, you're doing a persona development. I want to build on what Matt said though that designers are problem solvers. When we look at Design Thinking, we have a method called IBM Design Thinking, and the logo that we use for Design Thinking is actually an infinity loop. So what we do is we combine Design Thinking with Agile and I think of IBM Design Thinking as a 3-D printing of a solution to a problem. We're designing it, we're getting at an underlying need, we're prototyping something fitting a proof of concept, we're learning, we're now doing another iteration of Design Thinking and learning more about the underlying need, testing something, and as we keep testing and learning, we add more texture to the solution of the problem and it starts coming into focus for us. >> Yeah, and the key word's problem. I interviewed a Stanford professor on the cutting edge of innovation, design she said, "Don't fall in love with your product. Fall in love with solving problems." And I think that's kind of what you guys believe. >> And I think John, to the point that you raised, about Agile, you know, we see many organizations driving kind of Agile transformation and shifting, and you know, I think our perspective is very much is you need this combination of design, of Agile and dev-ops together, because Agile allows you to pivot quickly, dev-ops allows you to kind of learn and get rapid feedback from production and putting things out there, and you've got to have this kind of design-led approach to doing stuff, because you've got to make sure that what you're building and putting out there serves a purpose and a real outcome for the end user. >> That's perfect, and most people think oh, we're Agile, check. No, whoa, hold on, stop, yeah it's not a silver bullet. >> You brought up a great point from a business leadership perspective that don't fall in love with your products, fall in love with the problems that you're solving, We are seeing that across every industry we work in, and I think this new digital age, with all these emerging technologies going mainstream so fast, AI, AR, VR, blockchain, it's allowing companies to, in some ways, reimagine their purpose, but in some ways, revisit their original purpose. So if you look at, Ford as an example, they've declared that they're going from pure car manufacturing, to mobility services. If you look at our clients in the life sciences industry, years ago they would've declared themselves as pharmaceutical manufacturers right? But now they would look at themselves as partners in health and partners in the health ecosystem. And every industry we're operating in, there's that re-imagining or revisit of the core mission. >> I think this is the only interview I haven't asked about blockchain, but I was just talking to Jesse Lund about blockchain and we talked about digital currencies, digital, and we observed, and we were talking about things are happening faster. So what's happening on digital it's a speed gain, across the board, with currency there's no clearing, it's digital, it moves instantly. So his banking side, that's his thesis, but here, your customers are challenged with looking down the barrel and being scared when, damn, this is going to be fast, what if I screw this up? I mean this is kind of how I see it happening, like it's accelerated in all aspects. >> And this is where I think, in terms of the business that we're in how we're different, and you've kind of raised the traditional agencies and stuff earlier, John. I think the difference for us is, you know when you think about the world of advertising, and companies driving their message out through shouting loudly and campaigns and building micro-sites, actually, our perspective very much is that these, most organizations need to look at how they digitally reinvent, right. And so therefore the scale of change needed as they look to reinvent their businesses, the business models, the skill pools within the organization, how they're going to use data and insights to drive different experiences you start to move to a very different level of change and transformation right, and one where these technology platforms, and becoming a platform business in these organizations, right, need a partner fundamentally who can help them scale and drive that change. >> And the data's critical, using data, using cloud, dev-ops, Agile, design, all rolled into a highly accelerated process, that's hard. >> It is hard but, >> You guys are doing it though. >> Well yeah, that's what we do for a living. It's what our clients are faced with right now. It's kind of a like a Dickensian-like challenge, right, it's A Tale of Two Cities. With all the emerging tech that we were talking about before there's never been a better time to create new innovations. To be innovative in some of the things that we're doing with BP was a great example of that. And some of the bigger things we're doing with some clients that are trying to reinvent their organization around a renewed purpose. But at the same time, there's never been a bigger threat to existing companies, in terms of there's never been more opportunity to be disrupted. So between these two poles of never been a better time to be in business, never been a tougher time to be disrupted, that's where our clients are operating. And this juxtaposition of core and new where our clients have mostly been in business for more than a few years. They have a core business that they need to grow and optimize, while they also need to expand into the new. And they can't do one or the other, they have to do both at the same time. >> And you know the customers I talk to in the industry, around this area, really look down, they look at three choices. Go for it, that's scary, need a partner to do that you guys are there for that. Don't do anything, put your head in the sand. Or three, create blockers and ban stuff. So you're seeing, you kind of walk in and you kind of figure out who's doing what. You see the blockers with all these excuses, no well we've got this other... And then the head, well we should be, they don't do anything, they're not moving. And then people who move. >> Yeah. >> I mean that's the reality right now. >> You know, what we see, we just published this research you know, a C-suite study, so we interviewed 12,000 C-suite executives, over 2,500 CEOs, and the title of this study's The Incumbents Strike Back, and that's what we're seeing now, so we're not seeing folks kind of sitting or putting their heads in the sand, they're looking at their legacy business, and the competitive advantage they have because of all the knowledge and incumbent advantage that they have, and now applying that. >> Well Paul and Matt, we don't have enough time to go into the impact of blockchain and cryptocurrencies, and initial coin offering's impact, to the token economics of how your business will change but we'll do that another time. >> Fantastic. >> Alright thanks for joining The Cube. I'm John Furrier here live in Las Vegas for IBM Think 2018. A lot of great conversations here in The Cube number one live tech coverage, extracting the signal from the noise. We'll be back with more after this short break. (techno music)