>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE, covering NetApp Insight 2017. Brought to you by NetApp. >> Hello, everyone, welcome back to our live exclusive coverage of NetApp Insight 2017. This is theCUBE, I'm John Furrier, the co-host of theCUBE and co-founder of SiliconANGLE Media. My co-host Keith Townsend, CTO Advisor. Our next two guests is Dave Hitz, who's the co-founder of NetApp, and Anthony Lye, who's the EVP in Cloud Business Unit Manager. Welcome to theCUBE, and welcome back, good to see you, Dave. >> Thank you. >> I always love, I wrote a post years ago called Keep the Founders Around. I always joke with you on this, but the DNA of a company is super critical, and how the products get positioned even as the evolution, the DNA's critical, great to see you out on the front lines, pressing the flesh with the customers here. >> Keep the founders around, so I have a theory about that, 'cause some people say companies where the founder stays around are more successful, and therefore, I must be awesome. I have a different theory, which is companies that are really successful are a more interesting place for founders to continue to be interested to stay. I think that the causality may be the other way around. >> Don't have 'em as a placated-- >> The founders want to keep staying and playing, you must be doing really cool stuff. >> It's a cultural issue, and this is a big DNA discussion. We go back seven years, we've talked, I've talked with your former CEO, Tom Georgens, about this. Why are you going with Amazon? Everyone's saying that's a bad move, contrarian move. You guys said, hey, the customers are asking for it. Now it's all cloud all the time, data as a fabric. This is now mainstream. Really good tailwinds for NetApp right now, 'cause you got the core base, the shiny new toys not winning the day, but blocking and tackling good technology and the right customer focus. Talk about the cloud impact, Anthony. >> Yeah, just to make a point just on the last comment, I mean, what Dave does I think is you lean into things that are disruptive, and I think very few founders have that ability to sort of. >> Sometimes, I think the biggest value add I can bring to NetApp is to give people permission to let go of the old stuff, and some of it's hard. I'm the guy that wrote WAFL for ONTAP, and so, I'm not saying, I mean, we're still >> That was a big deal. >> We're still shipping a lot of that stuff, and it's awesome, but some people struggle to say what do you mean we're going to sell another storage system? This is always the best one for everything. That's what we've been saying for so long. >> ONTAP everywhere. >> And so, if I can let go, it's like it's my baby, and I still love it, but can we have another kid, too? I think that's a valuable role. >> You've been instrumental in the cloud strategy, and you tell that cloud story first, and it's not what you'd expect. And I think that's what gives NetApp its sort of unique and, I think, its 25 years is you go out, and you could easily talk about all the things that NetApp has done, but you choose to talk about where you think NetApp has to go. >> You do, yeah. >> You know, what was interesting to me about today's general session, 'cause we had so much new stuff, I think you almost can't get your head around it. We had to divide it into categories, and the categories we chose really align with how we see customers working. And so, the first category is a lot of people have and will continue to have for years the traditional style of data center with client servers and Linux, Windows. You rack and design it, like what should the fiber channel be? And it's virtualized, but here's the chunk for Oracle, here's the chunk for Virtual Desktop. >> It's running apps, by the way, running critical apps for the incoming. >> Yeah, of course. All of this stuff, and then, you've got this new style, which is all when you racks and wired to the top HCI, and you know, this whole next generation data center. And then, all the cloud stuff that, you know, it's services running entirely in Amazon. We've got services where we're moving data from one hyperscalar public cloud to a different hyperscalar public cloud with no NetApp hardware involved. I mean, these are entirely cloud-native, cloud-resident services. >> Help me solve, like one, from one region to another region of AWS. So, you're saying that the solution can move from one cloud provider to another. >> We've been doing that for a while. I mean, ONTAP itself, you can buy ONTAP Cloud for AWS, and you can buy it for Azure, and so, you can establish a cluster on one and connect it to a cluster on a different one and let ONTAP snap between the two, move workloads between the two, backup between the two. We've always had that. Now, the orchestrator that we showed today pushes us much, much higher and provides our customers with a true multi-cloud platform, but a multi-cloud platform that really starts to blend compute and storage together. And it's a platform that's built from the ground up on Kubernetes, which is now, I think, the sort of universally accepted container strategy for microservice-based applications. And yes, that platform will allow you to deploy an application package at the same time on any of the big three hyperscales. >> A lot of the pushback that I saw on social media was from the announcement yesterday, where Microsoft Azure NFS. Why are? >> Anthony: You got pushback? >> Yeah, pushback, like why, the object storage is no future in this. It's the best way to do cloud, period. Actually, it was the only way. Can you talk about the importance of NFS in the data fabric? >> Well, can I back up a step? Just to be clear, object storage is awesome. >> Keith: It is. >> And NetApp has an object storage solution, and I'm not going to diss object storage, right. It's great. However, NFS is cool, too, and a lot of people have a whole bunch of apps on-prem, and they've written them already. They run whatever they run. And if it uses NFS and you'd like to have it in the cloud, you don't want step number one is let's rewrite it. >> Keith: Exactly. >> You want step number one is it already works, and I would just like to be working over there so I don't have to mess with physical hardware. >> I know this might be sacrilegious for me to say to be from Silicon Valley and you are, too, but the shiny new toy doesn't win the day, and what we learned from the Hadoop, and we've seen it a little bit OpenStack, but they caught it early before it became a tumor, was the cost of ownership to write stuff from scratch is problematic. There's an issue of, legacy's not a bad thing, look with containers, your point about Kubernetes. So, you have to run these apps. No one wants to rewrite code. >> I'm not going to argue if it's a bad thing or not a bad thing, it exists. >> Accurate. >> And we want to help take care of it. >> But rewrite code as a mandate to get this? Nobody, I mean, if it makes total sense, okay you look at it, but it's not. >> I think IDC pegs file-based workloads at more than 24 exabytes with on-prem growing at somewhere around 18% K year and cloud growing at 25%. You know, objects are not the answer to everything, old or new, actually. As an application developer, I like the opportunity to have both, and I think applications will consume both. >> Let me jump into the announcements that were on-stage here, the conversations, a lot of stuff as you mentioned, so the folks should look at the keynote. We've streamed it live, so you can go to SiliconANGLE, or go to NetApps.com, check it out. But a couple things jumped out at me. The ONTAP, was it 9.3? And SolidFire, interesting integration there, shipped, great stuff. The cloud orchestrator, seamless moving data across multiple clouds. Everyone knows me, I've been critical of this. >> And applications. >> This is, I've been looking for someone to actually show me, just multi-cloud is hard, you got latency issues, there's a ton of stuff. But you're not rewriting code to do it. >> Exactly. >> You can do it on-prem, huge deal. And then, the other thing is just a general sentiment of the 18 guys around the channels, the channel partners are energized. They see an opportunity to build a business, sales channel for NetApp, but more importantly, they can come and deliver the customers. Guys, unpack those dynamics. Obviously, the SolidFire thing flashed. >> Can I start with the channel? When I look at how the channel interacts with a lot of customers, they make their money selling stuff, often gear. But if you look at what are they really providing, a lot of them are acting as IT consultants, in some cases with smaller companies as CIOs for hire. And so, it doesn't, people are, oh, well, what do they do if it's cloud? Or what they do if it's on-prem? It's like, the customer still needs that same advice and consulting. >> Your studio has cloud concierge, they have have their own cloud service for their customers. >> And so, I just think that there's a big opportunity for the people who choose to embrace it. Anyone who's telling their customers, whoa whoa whoa, slow down, you don't want to go on the cloud, we'll help you not go on the cloud. Like, I don't think that's a long-term business model anymore. >> Cloud is destinations happening. >> The only thing I would say on the partner side that we've seen is that we now have, I think, credibility in the cloud, so much so that we are signing partners that only work in the cloud. A lot of Amazon partners, a lot Azure partners have come to us and said, hey, you know, we didn't realize you had all of these data services, and we are running customers' infrastructures on the hyperscalars, and we'd like to use your software to make our lives easier, we'd like to use ONTAP Cloud, we'd like to use classing. As well as our traditional partners, there are other partners here at this event that are first timers at Insight. >> Talk about the cloud dynamic because certainly it's a lift, rising tide floats all boats or tailwind, whatever you want to call it, but now, I'm a CEO having a conversation, like, whoa, you got my attention. NetApp on my old trusted NetApp guys, the storage guys, and they're talking data, which music to my ears, 'cause I got all this stuff going on, GPPR. All of a sudden cloud, I didn't know they had a cloud. And you don't get a cloud strategy. You either do cloud or you don't, so this has come up on theCUBE a lot. Talk about the dynamic of how you talk about the damages. I'm like, okay, I know I got to build through the cloud. How does NetApp fit into my strategy? 'Cause I got to cross the bridge to the future, I got business to take care of today, both on-prem, in the three pillars, but I got to have a cloud vision. >> Let me back up a little bit. One of the reasons we think we can help, that we're very well-positioned to help, it's very easy to fire up 1,000 CPUs in the cloud. You want 1,000 CPUs, you fire 'em up, and you unfire 'em up, and everything is easy, until there's any data. What do they want to look at? How do you get it in there? What do they create? How are you going to keep it safe? Do you want to leave it in that cloud or a different cloud, or do you want it on-prem, or all three? And as you soon as you getting yourself into those questions, you go, whoa, that's the hard part of the cloud. The good news is that's exactly what NetApp does. That's the kind of work that NetApp focuses on. And so, the starting point is, look, CPUs, computes, lambdas, container, all that stuff is easy until you get to the data, which lives forever, and you're legally required to do something with it. Now, let's talk about what you're trying to accomplish and where you're going, like that now is. One of my goals these days, how long can we talk without mentioning a product? Because it's not, eventually you're going to have to get to, oh, by the way, we have a backup tool that'll reach into Office 365 and suck it out as objects and put it on your on-prem object storage. >> Well, backup's a whole other story. >> It's AWS or something like that. >> There's no laws in the cloud. >> So eventually, you get to some tool or some product, but you want to talk for a long time about where they're going, what they're trying to solve, what they care about. Often they don't care about a thing you think they should, like aren't you really concerned about budget? No, actually, we're dying, 'cause we can't solve this problem. The budget comes after we solve that. Okay. >> We were talking last week about the, I was calling it the toolshed paradigm, or paradox, and the toolshed paradox is that they're focusing so much on the tools that they have, that they have this bloated tool chest. Some of these are getting, collecting dust. They bought a hammer that they're trying to mow their lawn with. You have problem of too many tools, pun intended. The question is is that, as it kind of distracts from the focus, to your point, data. Data seems to be the killer app in the cloud because now, not just moving data around cloud, developers are using data in real time, so batch in real time is huge. >> How are they enriching the data? >> How is the application developed, because I'm a CIO, I've a lot of things going on, on my plate, I'm ramping up dev ops and more application development, new developers, open source, blah blah blah, security, governance. >> To me, I sort of think a really nice soundbite that I got was, I was an application developer, and my career has always been building applications, and it's always been the applications that own the data. There was an application server, and it executed business logic that read or wrote into a repository. >> A data bank. >> I am at the point where I believe we are in an inflection where now the data will own the application. And what I mean by that is the data has to be fluid and available for many applications to consume it. Some of them will enrich it, some of them will replace pieces of it, and so, architectures have to change. And I think NetApp's incredibly fortunate that we have such a strong data story at a time where the data itself will be the primary asset on a company's balance sheet. >> If you believe that point, which I do, by the way, I think you're 100% right, that changes the paradigm, flips it upside down, but this also creates the conundrum of data governance because I got a policy, I'm going to put the brakes on that because you're freeing the data to be addressable, to be more Alchemist kind of model where I can't control it, but I need to control it because I've got regulations, I've got governance issues. Give me a pause, how do you guys address that? I know you got governance to it, but that's a dynamic, that's a psychology. >> To add on to that, you talk about-- >> How are you going to do that? >> In governance, so there's the policy piece of it, and then, there's the availability piece of it. Just because I can move from an application developer's perspective, just because I can move an application to the cloud, doesn't mean that it will perform like it will when I use in 100 microseconds of latency in my private data center. So, how do I get the policy and the technology governance that combine together in the cloud? >> I think, I'll make two points. I think the obvious answer to the first question is we have the data fabric, and I think NetApp has pioneered its strategy around a set of data services that do certain tasks that can be consumed as applications or as APIs, but then, we've gone one level higher, and now, we orchestrate and connect those things up and provide meaningful solutions. And data has a fantastic, you know, we were talking about a fantastic demo with StorageGRID. I'll let Dave explain that. The second point I would make, though, is what you've got to understand is that the customer that we talk to isn't AT&T, that's just a big building with a logo on it. A customer is the person inside the organization, and we all now know that there is a new customer, and that customer people refer to as the data scientist. And there haven't been data scientists before, but now, every company is hiring data scientists, why? Because the data itself has become the primary asset. Application developers are now serving the data scientists. >> So, dev ops was developers making infrastructure as code with operations. You're essentially describing a new paradigm data ops. >> Anthony: Correct. >> Data as code, 'cause you need to have it programmable. >> And I think that's what most people call meta-data, or they talk now about APIs for everything. And so, I think that's the new norm, I think that there will be very large catalogs of data, surrounded by policy and governance, but expressed essentially as an API and that the data itself can be manipulated in real time or through batch, using a set of RESTful APIs. And I think, Dave, you should share the demo, the StorageGRID guys today. It's just a fantastic data fabric use case. >> Some of my favorite use cases with the data fabric is where you're confused, the line is blurred even. Is it cloud, or is it on-prem, or what is it? And we've been working hard to integrate those things. Here's an example: we showed, and this a made-up use case, but it was an on-prem solid storage grid, so it's a bucket of objects. Did I mention we love objects? It's a bucket of objects and their faces, and the problem was, how do we identify what's going on with these faces? Are they happy, are they sad, are they angry? And you don't want to write your own face recognizer. And Amazon has good face recognition technology, Recognize. And so, the use case that we constructed is here's the bucket, we have integrated our StorageGRID object storage with Amazon Simple Notification Service. And so, any time a new object gets put into the bucket, it notifies Amazon. Amazon can do whatever it want with that information. Hey, here's the bucket, here's the new object added. What we had it do is issue a lambda, connect up the notification to a lambda, have the lambda come back out, grab the data from on-prem, look at it with the face recognizer. Okay, happy, and then go back on-prem and update that meta-data. Is that cloud, or is that on-prem? We used Amazon's lambda, where this is data fabric. >> This is the new development reinvention. This is what I think a renaissance is coming big time because making that happen takes creativity. The barriers to pull that off now are almost down to just knowing what's available. And so, I think a renaissance is coming because that's amazing, but now you got to say, how do you scale that, and this is the channel CXO's at. >> These are what people call microservices, or serverless computing environments, where they're breaking down the basic construct of an application to be a set of consumable services that can be orchestrated around particular data flows. >> And I think a problem with data, how do you discover those microservices? So, having a trusted provider to go and aggregate all of those microservices is a helpful approach. >> Guys, I know we're tight on time, you got to go, and super thankful for your time coming on theCUBE and sharing your insight and color commentary, what's going on. >> Thank you. >> Final question for both of you guys before you split is this. I've been watching NetApp for years, big fan of the company, obviously, Silicon Valley darling. Sometimes takes a lot of heat. "NetApp's dead," and they never die, but you guys are always winning. Reinvention's been a big part of your culture, but that's not about pivoting, it's about building and just adjusting. Secret to the success, how do you guys do it? Advice for others? >> We have repeatedly leaned in to the thing that was going to kill us. So, when VMWare came along, everyone was like, oh, software-defined data center, nobody's going to need data storage services anymore, data management, VMWare will do it all. And we said, you know what, that's not right. It's hard to do the data part, and we're going to go make VMWare better, and if we do that, our customers will pay us money to help them move to VMWare faster. We leaned in on the thing that was going to kill us, and we're doing exactly the same. I mean, everyone's going, oh cloud's going to kill NetApp. >> You built around it rather than let it roll over you. >> Not just built around it, we said we'll make it better. And we did the same thing again with the cloud. Oh, the cloud's going to kill you, and we're like, you know what, let's go figure out how to make Amazon better, make Microsoft better. If we can make them better, I mean, if you solve a hard problem for a customer, some way or another you can figure out how to get paid for that, and I think that's what we've been doing. >> And you get in early, too. The timing is critical. It's not like you're late to the game and saying there's a pony in there somewhere. You look at it, although a little bit maybe applied. >> We first announced that we were working on this cloud stuff three years ago. 2014, we had been started working in 2013, we were there from the ground with Amazon and with Azure running our ONTAP code, and they were changing their environment to fit with us, and we were changing our code to fit with them, and years later when Microsoft says, who are we going to go to to help us manage the enterprise? They came to NetApp because we've been working with them for so long, I love that. >> Guys, I wish you had more time, we're going to get in our studio in Palo Alto. Great conversation, real fire energy going on here from the execs here at NetApp. This is theCUBE, more live coverage in Las Vegas at NetApp Insight 2017 after this short break. (upbeat electronic keyboard music)

(electronic music) >> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas it's theCUBE! Covering NetApp Insight 2018. Brought to you by NetApp. >> Welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of NetApp Insight 2018, Lisa Martin with Stu Miniman and guess who's here now, Dave Hitz, EVP and founder of NetApp, Dave, welcome back to theCUBE. >> Thank you and glad to be here. >> This is a big event, we were in the keynote this morning when we were walking out, standing room only really strong messages delivered by George Kurian, who stopped by for the first time couple hours ago. Great customer story, the futurist was very interesting perspective, 26 years ago, can you envision? >> You know the futurist? >> Where you are? >> Never mind that, I have a very different perspective than him, I think we are entering the golden decade of artificial intelligence. It's smart enough to be super, super cool and it hasn't figured out how to kill us yet, decade. (laughing) >> Lisa: That's good. >> Enjoy your last 10 years. >> Oh no, that's it? >> I, no, no, you asked, you asked that I envision this 26 years ago, oh my god, no, I mean, you know, we were a little start-up and we had these spread sheets that said we would grow to, you know it basically that, what the VC's told us if we could get to 100 million in revenue we can go public, so, naturally our spread sheets showed 200 million (laughs) in revenue, you know or five, six, some where in there and is like, we're so far beyond anything I imagined when we started, and we were doing technical nerdy products for little engineers and little work groups, you know and the idea that that part of the storage market would merge against the heavy duty, high-end enterprise storage market doing databases, and then that would end up colliding with the cloud market and helping, like no we didn't even imagine this stuff that's happening now, I mean it's so far beyond. >> Enabling DreamWorks to make movies, I mean-- >> I love that, you know they do showings, they do previews for their vendors and so I've gotten to take my 11-year-old daughter, she's 11 now, but to see, you know early viewing of some of these movies it's, it's just fun. >> So, Dave, it's always interesting in the industry a lot of time you say like, okay, this architecture is long in the tooth, there's a new generation do things better and everything like that. ONTAP, been around for a long time now.. >> You know, so let me-- >> Seems like it's been reinvigorated with the cloud and everything like that, you know. >> Let me make a comment about that. >> Yeah. >> Cause people do this, oh, ONTAP is so old, isn't that the old generation? So lets talk about old. Mainframes are old, and AS400s are old, and Unix is old, and then there's Windows which is kind of younger, and ONTAP's younger than that, and then there's Windows NT, which was a rewrite of Windows and Clustered ONTAP is younger than that, so like stop with the old, you know I mean iOS is after that, so okay fine we're older than iOS, but it's not an ancient, and then we've revamped it again to go run in the cloud, I mean we first started doing ONTAP running in Azure, sorry I mean Amazon initially, we started that work in 2013 and shipped it in 2014, so like that was yet another refresh so. >> Well, but you bring a point, you've, it is adjusted and moved, it wasn't something that's static. Can you speak a little bit, that cloud, the you know, the rewrite and focus around the cloud and what, that mean internally, I know you've been reinvigorated. >> Ha! >> With everything that's happened for the last few years. >> You know, the cloud everybody's doing it now and everybody's trying to be cloud relevant, we were really struggling early on I will say you know 2013, 2014 we were really trying to get our heads around what to do and a lot of people were stepping back like, no, no, no, let's see if we can slow it down, and, I mean not just outside of NetApp but NetApp as well, and the guy that was the CEO of the time Tom Georgens, and George Kurian was part of the staff then. We, I'm proud of what we did was we said, you know let's really lean in, its either going to happen or it's not going to happen, probably not, based on what we do, and if it does happen we'll be way better off leaning into it early, learning how to make this stuff work, and that's, you know we shipped ONTAP in the cloud in 2014, and it sucked, I mean, and no one body else had anything like it, it was awesome, right, whenever you look at old tech die, the first iPhone sucked too, but it was both great, but it needed so much more work, like the very first rev I remember a story, Joe CaraDonna as a programmer he's like, we tried to get our own IT organization to use it and they told us the security wasn't good enough, so we had to fix the security, like, I mean we've been through so much stuff that's almost five years ago. We've been working on it, and so you do all of this work and then Cloud Volumes is a complete, have you guys had Anthony on? >> Both: Yes. >> Couple hours ago. >> I love how Anthony thinks, so, he's a cloudy guy right from the foundation, he joins the executive staff, whole new perspective on stuff, so Cloud ONTAP, like ONTAP's my baby and we put it in the cloud. I'm proud of that, like you have our forward leaning cloud and Anthony's like, you know, just so you know, that's not nearly good enough, like, that is a very old school infrastructural thing, probably storage infrastructural people will like that they can have their same old OS running in the cloud, but it's not what cloudy people want, cloudy people don't want to run a storage OS in the cloud, cloudy people just want to say, I'd like a volume, please. Here's your volume, Thank you, and by the way, it should be a RESTful API, like God, ONTAP was none of those things and so if you look at the work we're doing now is like, okay, here's a RESTful API, here's the JSON schema, send it to the Azure Resource Manager Like that's cloudy and so, it was because, you know we did a good job engineering getting it in but we didn't, we didn't have that like the, what does cloud smell like? If you know what I mean, like, the right whiff of cloud. Anyway, so Anthony really brought that and I, and I just feel really good about where we are at now, because, it's like cloud developers, develop this stuff for other cloud developers, it feels like that. >> Well in the last five years it sounds like tremendous amounts of transformation, reinvigoration, NetApp has some bold marketing messaging. We are the data authority, we help customers become data driven, you talk about these three business imperatives, customers have lots of choices that, you know public cloud, private cloud, hybrid, George talked about this morning in his keynote that hybrid and multi-cloud is now de facto. >> You know, someone asked me, I was giving a talk and they asked me, okay so much cloud, how long do you think till NetApp's not shipping hardware? And I was like, no, no, like we don't see that going away anytime soon, if anything we think our success in the cloud, 'cause customers want to do that, will help us gain share on-prem because customers also want to do that, right? George's picture shows, yes there is traditional on-prem IT, enterprise IT, there's private clouds people, HCI, convergence CI, and then there's public cloud. To me the interesting question, is why do people do those different things, the number one driver for public cloud is innovation, like, if you just, like all the catchwords you can think of, if you want to start up a DevOps team to-go program, I would like a new mobile phone app and I want it to take a picture of the person's face, oh look it's a woman, she looks happy, and then you want it to listen to her, to the voice, and like transcribe the voice and then do a sentiment analysis on the words, oh, she looked happy but it's snarky, and then you want to feed that into neural net deep learning engine, and say, what should we try to sell her, like, I guaranteed you, the team working on the public cloud will beat the on-prem team hands down every time. Right, I mean that's, so when you look at people and they go, we want all in on the cloud, or there's got to be 100% cloud. My question is what, what's your, like, don't start with that, what's your problem? If it's derive innovation, for the private cloud, typically that's just all about speed. They're so uniform regular, they're all the same you have extra capacity, you know you got empty rack space, for where the next one goes, someone says, I need some storage, and you say, hey, it's got a self service offer defined API, like, just do it yourself, and then in the enterprise space, the enterprise IT, Unix, Windows, clients, server, like that zone, probably the bulk of your investment, right? That's where you been spending the money historically. Probably still the bulk of most people's investment, but they want to modernize it, they don't want to get rid of it, they don't want to turn it off, it's working, but they'd like it to work better, so flash enable it, just get the performance issues out of the way. By the way, shrinks your footprint in the data center, frees up space, and connected to the cloud. Like not moving it, but just back it up or do DR, or like something cloudy and so to me I look at those three goals are tightly linked to the three styles of infrastructure. Notice, I haven't talked about products yet? The conversations I like to have with customers these days, help me understand what your business challenges are, your trying to move faster, be more innovative, modernize the stuff you have. Okay, like what ratio, now lets talk about how we could do those things together with the Data Fabric and let you build the Data Fabric you need, I mean, our Data Fabric strategy is not to tell customers what to do, it's to help them build the Data Fabric they need for their needs based on, oh, we're all about innovation, all on the cloud, like okay fine. We can do that like, but let's talk about that or is it. Now I'm stuttering. >> You bring up a great point there, Dave. >> I'm excited about this stuff. >> It's really exciting 'cause you know I think back, you know, just a couple of years ago, if you go to the enterprise, oftentimes storage was the boat anchor to prevent me from moving forward. Now we know that data, is absolutely going to be one of the drivers going forward, how do we help those people make that transition? How do you see NetApp driving that transition? So boating, that's an interesting word because I think if you look at cloud compute, it's very easy to move compute into the cloud, right. >> Stu: Yes. >> The thing about compute is it just happens and then its done, like you turn it on, you turn if off. You spin up the VM, you spin down the VM, it's easy. The reason data is a boat anchor is not because its a boat anchor, because data is the hard part, like you fired up the compute to the cloud but usually you're computing some data, well, how did you get the data to the place where the compute is? And then when you're finished a lot of times you created some data, well, how do you keep track of the data you created in the cloud, and is it legal for it to stay in the cloud, and now you want to put the data in a different cloud or put the data in your own data center and like, who's watching all that data? It's not a boat anchor because data sucks, it's a boat anchor actually because its the important thing you want to keep forever, right? I mean, maybe you do or maybe you want to delete it and know for sure it's gone. Like, those, compute doesn't have any of those issues. So, what's my point, whatever is hard, like if this was easy anybody can do it, right? Whatever is hard, you go hire lots and lots of smart people to work on hard problems and then customers are like, whoa, you're solving hard problems, I guess I will pay you after all. Isn't that what business is? >> So the majority of your conversations start with helping customers identify what they've got, where best to spread out their investments, it's not product based its about business outcomes. I'd love to get kind of in the last few minutes here, your perspective on NetApp's own IT and digital, and cultural transformation, how does that help your legacy long time enterprise customers feel an even stronger trust with NetApp? >> I think prior to our cloud work customers for the most part, customers and potential customers, they knew us, you know, it was interesting even as we thought about marketing the new work that we are doing, one of the questions was like, how much should be about the cloud, how much should be about the old stuff, and we've really leaned in almost 100% on telling people our new cloud stories, they're both public and private. And our VP of marketing I think she had a really, Jean English, she had a really good perspective. She basically said look, we've been telling the on-prem storage iron story for 26 years and if there's a customer who's out there waiting to decide who to use I don't think telling them that story again and year 27, is going to be the thing that makes the difference, like, they've decided they're happy with their Hitatchi or they're EM's, whatever it is, but, but they don't know that NetApp can help them in this brave new world. Right, they have no clue that ONTAP is also running on Amazon, I mean, It's like, seriously, I can run ONTAP on Amazon? Yeah like fire it up, it's five bucks an hour, or whatever the number is, it's like that's crazy, you know and so, so and then people go, well, we've had so many conversations where they're trying to get a cloud strategy together, and we talk about all these things and data movement and data management and cloud, and like just all of these tools and they're very excited about where they're trying to go and they said, you know, by the way, I do also have a on-prem storage need. Could you do me a quote for like what I need this week and meanwhile let's do some planning about what I need next year, right, you've got both of them working together, and I think it's that combo that's important. >> Last question, how do you, if only you had more energy and excitement like legitimately about this, but how do you keep some of the NetApp folks that have been here for a long time? How have you helped reinvigorate them to, to really be able to digest the massive impact that you guys are being able to make across industries? >> One of the things I think helps, 'cause there is a... Let me back up a step, you know, Steve Jobs, is such an awesome guy and also in his life he made so many mistakes, and one of the things he did when, when Apple was almost entirely floated on their Apple III business and, was that Apple III, Apple II? And he was doing the Mac, and basically his message to everybody else was, if you're not working on the Mac, you suck, except, by the way, that's the product that's floating the entire business and generating all the products, and I really was conscious of, like that's the wrong way to do it. And when I look in particular of what we're doing we've got new operating systems like E-Series and like SolidFire, the HCI is a whole new thing, and yet ONTAP is still shot through our entire product line. I mean, the Cloud Volumes' the cool, hottest new thing. It's ONTAP under the covers, right, and you look at the HCI it's got the SolidFire block storage built in there as a very scalable model, oh but if you'd like files guess what? We run ONTAP in a VM, it's HCI it runs VM, and so actually if you look at what's going on in there the work that we've done going way back, and yes it's evolved, it's changed, but that same work is actually shot through as technology, no longer the front piece but it's shot through all of it as technology, so it is kind of a unifying characteristic. If you talk about that, I think it helps people get more comfortable both internally but, we have the same, you know, you asked how do you get employees comfortable, a lot of customers have the same problem, you know-- >> Lisa: Right. >> They've spent a lot of investment and learning ONTAP's foibles over the year and Cloud Volume's hides all of that. So, gee, maybe I don't like this, you know what if you need all those features Cloud ONTAP, you can run ONTAP, like some people do want to do that, so, I just feel like the fact that the pieces all fit together, work together, actually gets people comfortable with it. >> Excellent, well Dave thanks so much for stopping by. >> Thank you for having me. >> Thank you for sharing your energy, and your excitement, your passion and all this wisdom and looking at where you guys are 26 years later, we look forward to year 27. >> Great, thank you. >> We want to thank you for watching theCUBE, I'm Lisa Martin with Stu Miniman, we're at NetApp Insight 2018 in Vegas. Stick around Stu and I will be right back with our next guest. (electronic music)

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE, covering NetApp Insight 2018. Brought to you by NetApp. >> Welcome back to theCUBE, we're live at NetApp Insight 2018 from the Mandalay Bay, in Las Vegas, I'm Lisa Martin, my co-host for the day is Stu Miniman. We're welcoming back two distinguished alumni to theCUBE, we've got Anthony Lye SVP and GM of the Cloud BU at NetApp. Hey, Anthony, welcome back. >> Hello, thank you very much. >> Fresh from the keynote stage. And we've also got a Tad Brockway, the head of product Azure Storage, Media and Edge at Microsoft, Tad, welcome back. >> Yeah, thank you. >> So guys, this is day one, keynote this morning, it was standing room only, 5,000 plus people here, Jean English was on your CMO of NetApp and said, most ever customers and partners under one roof at NetApp. So that's exciting. Let's talk about partnerships. NetApp has been around 26 years and the slide of partners and sponsors this morning was like a NASCAR slide. Tell us Anthony, about what you guys are doing, and how you're evolving your relationship with Microsoft? >> Oh, I mean, I think of all the relationships, Microsoft is unique. Tad and I have worked together now for over a year. >> Yeah, yeah. >> And it's an engineering relationship. There is absolutely no doubt about it. We are doing things in Azure that nobody else has ever done. I think we sort of bring 26 years of NetApp experience to the infinite possibilities that Azure brings to its customers. It's transformation based on, very reliable infrastructure. So you get all the forward looking values of Azure, complemented by the 26 years of NetApp. >> Yeah, it's a great way to-- >> So a year ago, at this very event, NetApp Insight 2017, you announced some exciting things. One of them being Azure NetApp files. >> Anthony: Correct. >> Tell us about, a year later, where you are with that? I know McKesson, big brand in healthcare, they're going to be on stage tomorrow, give us a little bit of perspective about what that announcement has transformed into, one year in? >> Well, let me give you my perspective and then Tad, you should obviously give the view of Microsoft. For NetApp, it's given our customers confidence and confidence in their choice of public Cloud, that they now feel that Azure has distinct advantage in that it can land workloads that today currently run on NetApp. And they have the confidence that Microsoft has selected NetApp, that Microsoft will sell the service, Microsoft will support the service, Microsoft will build the service. I think we've also done something quite unique in the way the service is delivered. We could have just thrown up storage and said to customers, "You manage it." But I think together, we wanted to try and provide almost like dial tone, we just wanted storage to be there, and we wanted to give people performance guarantee. So they felt very comfortable picking a particular performance level with a particular workload. And that's not been done before. So, we're seeing fantastic results from customers, we have a backlog that's growing by the day, and customers who have been onboarded onto the system, have rave things to say about it. You'll hear from one of those customers tomorrow on stage with Tad and I. But Tad, how would you characterize the year? >> Yeah, sure. So, a lot of engineering effort, and that's the thing that makes this, customers don't care about how something is implemented, they care about the value that they get out of it. But it's because we've put so much effort into this across our companies, from an engineering standpoint, that there's nothing like this in the industry today. As we roll this out into Azure regions around the world, it is going to be a highly differentiated offering. And that's because fundamentally, what we're doing is, we're bringing Azure NetApp into Microsoft data centers, and we're wiring NetApp ONTAP directly into Azure. So we've worked together on the design for some advanced networking capability, all the way down to the switch level, where we have very low latency, very high throughput from the Azure Public Cloud, all of the infrastructure, all of the customers VMs, directly into ONTAP, very low latency, very high bandwidth. So all of the performance characteristics of ONTAP on-prem, and then bringing that into the Public Cloud. So you get really a no compromise transformation for your existing apps and you get the ability to provision that app volumes in a way that is fundamentally unique, it fits with the whole Cloud paradigm of being able to pay for your resources as you go, the democratization of IT so that individual business units can go provision volumes. So it really is Cloud paradigm plus all of the performance capabilities of ONTAP. >> I wonder if we can unpack that a little bit. When I think about Microsoft and NetApp, you both have really, it's called today Hybrid Multi Cloud. But Microsoft it's been given a lot of credit that it's got a strong Hybrid strategy. When I think back, I mean, Microsoft's always had storage as part of the Stack. If today, and Azure Stack, you've got Storage Spaces Direct, you've got a Cloud first strategy. So I want to be able to do the same thing in public Azure as when I'm building solutions, put it in the environment, can you help connect, where does that this ONTAP solution fit in there? Because, some people would say, "Well, come on Microsoft, "wouldn't you just build this with your own solutions?" Why do you turn to NetApp? >> So, it's true, I guess, the spirit, I think the spirit of what you're asking is, it's an observation that what brings our companies together is an appreciation for enterprise customers being able to do things on their terms. That involves customers taking existing IT workloads and then transforming them over to the cloud, as opposed to zeroing everything out and starting over, that's just not realistic. So, it's the strategy for Microsoft and the strategy for NetApp, and then our partnership together to meet customers where they are, help them evolve. So scenarios like Hybrid, they fit very nicely within that and Microsoft's portfolio with Azure Stack and some of the other things that we're doing there with Data Box, and so on. These are edge investments that are intended to extend the reach of Cloud into customer environments. And then to make it really easy for customers to take their existing assets, and then take advantage of the Cloud. That fits with the whole model of what we're doing with ONTAP as well. >> Anthony, we would love to hear your piece because there's NetApp pieces that are going into the Cloud but we see Microsoft, the Cloud is the starting point, we start in the public Cloud, and then that pushes out to the edge. >> Yeah, I think, I would make two points, I think, just to reinforce what Tad said, that there's just a technology that sits behind the file system that you cannot underestimate the importance of what Dave Hitz really started. I mean, ONTAP does things that no other file system can do. It manages the data in a very particular way, it allows us to run NFS and SMB protocols on the same volume for certain use cases. It has almost linear performance throughput characteristics. And we've been able to take that file system and then build intellectual property for certain workloads. So, NetApp is really the most commonly deployed platform for SAP. We are probably still the biggest platform for Oracle Database deployment, for MySQL deployment. So I think there's a technology, I think there is a sort of a history and legacy in Linux and open source based workloads, that we have an understanding of that adds to Microsoft. Now, the second point I would say is, I personally agree very much with Tad, but I think what you're going to see is IT will be redefined by Cloud. What I mean by that is, the Cloud will essentially establish the baseline and then push itself and it's sort of it's own access control lists, security models, those will end up getting pushed back to IT. So I think you're going to see a Cloud defined IT business as opposed to an IT defined Cloud. >> Yeah, I buy that. >> And I think there's just so much elegance and simplicity and scalability in Azure. Now, they had 25 years of watching everybody else make a mess of legacy IT, and now Azure is such a pure environment that it can extend, I think, and provide tons of value outside of Azure. >> So you guys mentioned, I think, Anthony, you mentioned when we kicked off, that this is really kind of an engineering partnership, when if we look at the history that both NetApp and Microsoft, have massive install basis of customers, customers that didn't start out in the digital era, obviously, customers that are born in that too. I'm curious, you mentioned about IT, from a joint selling standpoint, where are these conversations initiating? Are you talking with the IT folks? Are you going to the business folks who are having a more business outcomes led conversation? So Anthony, I will start with you? >> Well, so I would say, my favorite line about Cloud was, actually a line Marc Benioff quoted which was, what Clouds do is they democratize innovation. And if you think about that for a second, the environments that we grew up in, the big companies had a material advantage in their use of technology. The small companies couldn't afford to do it. You look at Azure now, and any single person on the planet can consume Azure. They don't need permission, in many cases, and ideas that would never get through the business case, can now be started on Azure. And there are so many great ideas and concepts that needed that sort of easy onboarding and services that, machine learning and artificial intelligence, there's a handful of companies that could buy that stuff themselves. Azure gives you access to all of that. So I think what's happening is that democratization has sort of infused more buyers. So what used to be a fairly linear process through the CIO has now been fractured. A lot of application developers are buying by themselves. Line of business people are funding project work sometimes without IT's knowledge. So for us, we wanted to make sure that we could allow traditional customers to extend to Azure, traditional customers to migrate to Azure, but we wanted to build a service that would appeal to the new Cloud buyer. To the application developer, to the data scientist. And I think we've done a very good job doing that. >> Yeah, no, I agree. I think, it's the combination of empowering folks to go do things to increase productivity at the individual business unit level, but then do that with technology that has taken decades of thousands of engineers to develop. This combination, there really is nothing like it in the industry, it's really unique. >> At lunch, I was talking to a couple of users here, and they were a little bit nervous, a little bit excited, going to go through some sort of Cloud certification. Cloud is an opportunity for a lot of people to scale up on new skill sets. I'm sure there's new certification. Can you talk a little bit about how you're helping customers move towards the future? >> Yeah, I think we've sort of, in many ways made, ONTAP, very much a relevant service in Azure and what we hope that means is for all of the people that have been very loyal to NetApp and to ONTAP that their skill set now translates into the Cloud compensations. One of the things we'll say, on stage tomorrow is, Microsoft and NetApp have worked together to create a certification that blends the best of what ONTAP can do for workloads, strategy and design with the wealth of services that Azure has. It's awesome to be onstage with Tad, we provide a critical service, but Microsoft has how many services now, in Azure? >> Tad: Oh, Gosh, hundreds. >> Hundreds and hundreds of services. And as a developer, I feel, you're like a kid in a candy store when you're in Azure, you can switch on almost anything and find services that will do incredible things that you could never get from IT. You could just never get those services. What Microsoft has is a scale so vast, I mean, how many data centers will you be at, by the end of the year? >> Well, we're in 54 regions today, and then each region has multiple data centers. >> Anthony: Hundreds. >> So anyway, we're all over the planet. >> So guys, we're out of time, but just really quickly, so we've seen this evolution, you guys have lived this evolution in the last year. The public preview is out for-- >> Azure NetApp files. >> Azure NetApp files, any Sneak Peek you can give us into what some of your customers are going to be saying tomorrow about the business outcomes like, reducing costs, or speed of transactions, that are going to be here tomorrow? >> You should get Brad up here from McKesson because he's awesome. Brad's been on point for it and I think, you'll hear from a customer tomorrow that they plan to bring the biggest enterprise workloads to Azure. I mean, I think when he names the applications, they are non-trivial applications that couldn't move, but now with Azure Netapp files can. I think he's also going to say that as well as benchmarking very well at the big workloads, we actually benchmark very well on the cost curve. That we can migrate workloads and give very good cost, I think characteristics as well as performance. So we've tried to give people that two dimensional flexibility. >> Well, that's going to be something not to miss. So if you're here at NetApp Insight, check it out, if you're not, watch it on their live stream. Tad, Anthony, thanks so much for joining-- >> Thank you, very much. >> Stu and me and sharing with us the momentum and the vision that you're now seeing manifest. We appreciate your time. >> Perfect, thank you. >> From Stu Miniman and I'm Lisa Martin, you're watching theCUBE Live from Las Vegas, NetApp Insight 2018, stick around we'll be back after a short break.

>> From Orlando, Florida, it's theCUBE, covering SAP Sapphire Now 2018, brought to you by NetApp. >> Welcome to theCUBE, I'm Lisa Martin, we are with Keith Townsend, we are in Orlando, in the NetApp booth, at SAP Sapphire 2018, joined by the CIO of NetApp, Bill Miller, Bill welcome to theCUBE. >> Thank you, great to be here, I really appreciate it. >> So, NetApp, 26-year-old company, you guys have been on a big transformation journey, give us some nuggets of NetApp's transformation story. >> Yeah, it's really a fascinating story, and it all centered around the customer. In going back a couple of years when we realized this story was evolving from a storage story and a storage history, to a data-centric story going forward. We spent a lot of time listening to our customers. We listened to them in briefing center meetings, we listened to them through strategic customer account sessions, and we really were drawn to this notion of providing outcomes for our customers rather than providing storage long-term. Storage, like all other appliances, ironically in the name of the company, a very well-established respected company, Network Appliance. It was not going to be about appliances in the future, it was going to be about data management and leveraging the value of the data for our customers. So our transformation was about bringing that journey to life and giving our customers choice. Choice around where their data resides and how they utilize that data and how they leverage that data for their customers. So as we listened and we, we kind of absorbed the impact of this, it became clear that for the foreseeable future we were going to live in a hybrid-cloud world. And really what I mean by that is our large established customers were going to have very consequential private cloud data centers for a long time to come. We did very large complex applications that served their customer communities. They weren't going to be able to pick up those large applications and move them quickly to the cloud so they were going to run in high-intensity private cloud very efficient data centers. But at the same time, they were looking to transform digitally, to go on this digital transformation journey, and the vast majority of them wanted to lean in to the hyperscale or clouds, the cloud suppliers, and build their future strategic applications in the cloud. And it became clear to us that their data was now going to be bifurcated, it was going to reside in their own prim facilities but critical, mission critical, and advantageous data was also going to sit out there in the hyperscaler cloud and a company like NetApp could build this data fabric to connect them seamlessly so that the customers had choice. I mean, that's really what was behind the initiative to transform NetApp. >> So as we talk about that transformation, NetApp identified the opportunity. >> Yes. >> Looked at the product portfolio, looked at the gaps. Identified where they needed to go. >> Right. >> NetApp the company needed to go through a digital transformation itself. >> Yeah. >> So as an SAP customer, as a NetApp customer, as the person responsible for enabling developers, application teams, product teams, to execute on that digital transformation, what were some of the challenges, lessons learned as the CIO of NetApp that you experienced. >> It's an awesome question. You kind of went from we're going to transform for our customers to what I did to, or my teams and myself did, to enable that. There's a middle step which is all of our business partners in the company. You know, whether that's finance or sales or marketing, having to realign their business processes to this new need. So let me give you an example on the sales, the go-to-market function, you know. We call this a go-to-market motion, you know, how you sell. Well if you're selling an appliance, you know a piece of hardware with some software with it, that's one very well-defined and familiar motion. If you're going to sell software solutions, if you're going to sell advanced professional services that advise our customers on how to leverage data, those are very different motions that you have to enable to be successful. So what that means is taking that set of business processes that are unfamiliar to us. You know, when a customer wants to buy our products on a pay-as-you-go, a consumption model, rather than a capitalization acquisition, that's a whole different set of processes we have to put in place behind the scenes. Financial processes, legal processes, and of course IT systems. So it started with the business functions, figuring out how they were going to transform their work flows, and then IT had to come in underneath and say do we have the systems, the tools, the platforms, like SAP and other partner-provided platforms to enable that and make those work flows come to life. So it was really a partnership across the whole enterprise and if you really listen to our CEO, George Kurian, George will tell you, this transformation affected every single employee and every single leader in the corporation. It was a major change for us to figure out how you're going to take a business steaming in this direction and turn them 45 degrees on a dime and quickly embrace those new processes and mobilize them through new systems, tools, and platforms. So this was a wholesale change to the corporation, I mean it was a burn-the-ship's model, we're never going back, (Keith laughs) this is the new way of doing business for NetApp. Very exciting, and at the beginning a daunting journey. >> We had Dave Hitz on theCUBE doing a NetApp insight last year and one of the things that he said, he had to come in and tell the on-tap engineers, on-tapping the cloud is okay, we're NetApp and we can burn down what we've done before and do it again, and we'll make that journey. So, it's enlightening to hear that NetApp was willing to burn down the old stuff to build the new. So as we talk about that new, what are the major drivers, as you're talking to other CIOs, you know, I'm sure the sales team wants more of your time than you can give. >> Very perceptive, very perceptive Keith. (laughs) >> As you're talking to CIOs, what is that conversation, what jewels are they trying to get out of you? >> So, we spent a lot of time with our customers. One of the enjoyable parts of my job is my customers are my peers, our customers are my peers, so I did spend a lot of time looking at what's on their agenda. They're driven by two passions almost globally and consistently across the industry. They're driven by a desire to move to the cloud, to move to the cloud aggressively for flexibility, to take advantage of these new marketplaces that the hyperscalers are offering. Hyperscalers and their partners. But if you come out to our home base in Silicon Valley, what you see, all the start-up companies are being designed in the cloud functionality, so that's where a lot of the new R&D and the new IP is being created. So, my peers want to invest more heavily in the cloud. And the second thing they want to do is enable digital transformation, real digital transformation, how do they monetize the wealth of the data that they've acquired through their relationships with their customers, and then how do they leverage that for their customer benefit. That's what digital transformation really means to CIOs, and how do I engage in the cloud to do that. So when we looked at that we said, okay the story's about data, it's digital transformation around data, and it's enabling that cloud journey for our customers at a rate of consumption that is acceptable and digestable to them, right? Because every customer has a different rate of motion to the cloud and depending on their industry type and their degree of risk and enthusiasm to embrace change, they're in different places. So, we had to be very flexible in guiding different customers in different industries to that cloud database journey and so that's why we have to spend an awful lot of time listening to our customers to help them do that. >> Did you find during this time where, not only are you having to burn some ships down and transform yourself, while still transacting business in a competitive way. >> That's exactly right. >> Did you find yourselves going, alright so NetApp's talking about data is key, data fabric, are you going away from storage, did you find that was a question that was commonly asked and if so, how are they responding now to NetApp's transformation? >> That's a great question. Let me get back to that as you know, NetApp going away from storage, and hit something both of you said. This journey of transformation, you can do transformation a number of ways, but the two common ways are I do it and I'm gone. In other words, I get through the fiery pit and I'm on the other side, I'm like, wow I'm glad that's over, okay? That's not the nature of our company. It is, what George would call it, a culture of transformation, right? It's about being willing to change directions if you need to change direction and go, in this dynamic world. >> Based on the customers, what they think, not what as a company, NetApp would like. >> And we're in one of the most dynamic areas of high-tech, when you look at data and you look at the cloud and the solutions. So we realize, it's not over, we haven't transformed and we're done. We're in transformation 2.0, which is the whole next generation, and most of our leadership team is very comfortable with the discomfort associated with continually transforming. >> Comfortably uncomfortable. >> Yeah and I think it takes a certain kind of person to lead in our company and you have to be bold. You have to be bold and want to do that, okay? >> So George gave some emotional examples last year of data-driven capability. In order to make these transformations, NetApp itself has to be driven by data. >> That's right. >> What are some of the key capabilities as a CIO that you've given the business to be data-driven? George can't make these decisions unless he has data. What new capability has NetApp provided George? >> Well, I'll give you an example sitting here at this wonderful SAP conference, you know? We rolled out SAP C4C Hybris this past year. A big journey for us, we were on a separate platform, we knew we needed to build these new work flows into our day-to-day processes and as we thought about what potential solutions would be to kind of break the mold from where we were and move forward, we really liked the SAP HANA platform. We think the HANA platform, very dynamic you know in memory, a high-performance computing platform that's built on the NetApp framework, right? It's a NetApp high-performance infrastructure with an in-memory processing capability that's second to none in my opinion. So we looked at data availability, reporting, insights that we could get, and the commitment from our partners to continue to evolve in insights. So you know, you hear about Leonardo here, and some of the AI and machine learning platforms that are being developed, we felt like that HANA platform would give us a lot of flexibility in the future to be data-driven, to pull data and to do it fast and dynamically to help our business make the right decisions going forward. >> I'm curious, as we finish up here, how influential is NetApp's transformation? And you're right, it's a journey, right? You're going to get a destination, oh and now we're an intelligent enterprise, if only. How impactful and influential has NetApp's transformation been on really continuing to establish NetApp's relevance and your customer base, have you seen that like make deals happen because look what they've done. >> Yeah, a couple things I'll say to that. First of all, customers admire companies that are bold and that really want to lean into technology and make change, so our journey of transformation is absolutely a fascinating one for our customers. They feel like, if you're willing to do that, if you're willing to change dynamically on the behalf of your customers, we got a lot more confidence that you're serious about what you're doing and you're committed to the future. So number one, they love it. Number two, they just want to know how to transform themselves, so any nuggets they can take away from our journey, and reuse and position in their business for future success is much appreciated. And then the third thing I would say, and it gets back to an earlier question you asked. You know, as we give them more choice, as we give them a choice to either advance their current data center with high-performing flash or build a really cost-effective high-performing private cloud with converged infrastructure or really venture out into that digital transformative space of the hyperscalers, we're giving them choice every day. So, we're not afraid to offer them data management solutions in all three of those environments and not only choice by going out to a hyperscaler, an AWS or an Azure or a Google Cloud platform, but to be able to choose multiple cloud supplier platforms so they can put some workloads in Azure, some workloads in GPC, and get a confident feeling that NetApp's going to be there for them in any of those platforms in any of those configurations. They really feel more confident when they hear that story, and I would argue, to some degree, they're more likely to buy our traditional storage if they feel confident of our future vision in the enablement to allow them to succeed with that future vision, so it's been well received at that level. >> NetApp, bold. I love it Bill. >> I think we are. >> Thanks so much for stopping by, and now you're Cube Alumni, so congratulations. >> Well thank you and I hope to come back some time. >> Absolutely, we'd love to have you back. Thank you for watching theCube, I'm Lisa Martin with Keith Townsend and the NetApp booth at SAP Sapphire 2018. Thanks for watching.

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE covering NetApp Insight 2017. Brought to you by NetApps. >> Welcome back everyone, we are live in Las Vegas this is theCUBE, SiliconANGLE's flagship program where we go out to events and extract the signal from the noise. I'm John Furrier, my co-host Keith Townsend. We're here at NetApp Insight 2017 here at the Mandalay Bay with two great guests, a senior executive, senior NetApp folks, are going to share some insight on what's going on. We have Mark Bregman is the Senior Vice President and CTO thanks for coming on. John Woodall VP of Engineering at Integrated Archive Systems. The first partner of NetApp going back in the day. Welcome to theCUBE thanks for coming on. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> So we've seen that movie before, you know every cycle of innovation there's always opportunities. Interesting now we're in a cycle where you can see some new waves out there coming in. And we think we're surfing on some waves now, but the tsunami's coming. Everything from blockchain down to just cloud growth like crazy. You guys have done extremely well. You've seen them before, these transitions. People are busy right now, your customers are super busy. They've got app development going on, DevOps, they've got security unbuckling from IT becoming critical, data governance. What should they know about in this transition that they may miss or they should pay attention to. >> Well, I would say that the thing that is probably the most profound is we've gone through a couple of big transitions, as you mentioned, in the industry as a whole. 20, 30 years ago we would talk to customers and they'd start with infrastructure and they'd talk about servers and storage. 10, 15 years ago they start with applications and they'd talk about their ERP or whatever software. That would decide then the infrastructure. Today they're starting with data and companies are realizing that data is the thing that's going to transform their business. And then based on that data, what software am I going to use and then talk about infrastructure. So the conversation's kind of turned around completely from where it was 20 years ago. >> John, you've been a partner, I see the partner landscape certainly changing. You seeing resellers and VAR's and I think, does the word VAB even exist, value added business? They're actually building their own tech because there's opportunities to be a service provider. Almost like a telco, who would have thought? >> It's crazy, it's crazy. I think I think from our perspective as a longtime partner, we've been successful with NetApp through transitions. We were talking before about the resiliency of NetApp in going through transitions. They've done it again, the keynote today filled with a lot of, what I call, mic-drop moments of yet another level of innovation. But you're right things have flipped almost 180 degrees in the discussion that starting with data, starting with a business outcome, as part of the discussion. It's not about what can I sell, it's about in solving the problem, do I accelerate the pace of my business. Do I open up new ways to monetize in my business. Do I drive efficiencies in my business that translate to the bottom line. As a reseller and as a partner, we have to transition with that because the discussion changes, the skill sets change and it becomes much more of a services play on the front-end and to help through and then becomes managed services, as you know, and that. >> Mark I want to ask your a question. We were joking with the product marketing team on the cloud earlier that you know the slogan should be, I don't know NetApp could do that. It just keeps happening, oh, I didn't know they did that. While that's kind of a history NetApp, but I want to ask something specific. We see it's a success out there in the cloud, you look no further than Amazon Web Services. Now Microsoft's kind of catching up to the rear, Google's there's some other people are trying to kind of get in there. But Amazon's the winner when it comes to the number of announcements you see an event and I'm sure at Reinvent coming up is going to be a tsunami of their bigger announcements, more services so it's a plethora. And so that's an indicator of success. And also the new differentiator, at scale, as you got to keep iterating, you guys have a slew of announcements, so running engineering and being the CEO. What's going on at NetApp? What's the conversation like, you have all these roadmaps, is it just all this innovation, is it part of the plan and just give us some insight into how this all works. >> Well, I think for a long time, maybe for the first 20 years of the company, we were almost like a one product company. The innovations were all in that lane. They were all, you know, make this a better product, make ONTAP better and customers love that because they were growing with us. What's happened is it's kind of exploded in multiple dimensions. So we continue to innovate in our core. But at same time we're having to say, how can we use this capability in a completely different way, in the cloud? How can we help customers manage their data, no matter where it is, not just on our ONTAP systems. We made the acquisition of a little over a year ago, a year and a half ago, of SolidFire, to get into an area of a different approach to managing storage. And it's not sometimes people get it confused and they go that's how you got into flash. Frankly, we're already doing flash units and have flash in all of our product lines. The real reason we did that was to get into this more programmatic, scale out, API driven model of administration of storage. And we're having to do that in so many dimensions. so as we expand those dimensions, Of course we have to expand our innovation. We have to innovate at the given rate in each of threads. >> The old joke in Silicon Valley is you know get lucky once and you get rich. And it's hard, you know, the sophomore jinx whatever you want to call it, repeated successes is a sign of success and certainly as a partner you want to, you don't want to one trick pony at all. Now, I got to ask you, given the NetApp history of those successes, the data fabric is very good positioning I like that position because it's got a lot around it's super important, you think data is the new wave it's going to come bigger than cloud in terms of its impact. What from NetApp, for the customers that are watching and especially new customers, as you take new territory down with data, what is it about the NetApp portfolio, or the architecture the DNA that makes you guys relevant in this data fabric equation? Because you can't just get there overnight because of diseconomies of scale. What is it about NetApp that makes them super relevant? Couple things, one thing, what's the one thing? >> Well, I think I think it becomes back to I think you even said the term, DNA. It's what is it about NetApp, why are we one that's been around for 25 years and continue to make it through these transitions. And I think it's because, first of all, we don't rest on our laurels, we're not caught up in the innovator's dilemma of continuing to just refine what we already have. We'll do that, but we also recognize that there are emerging new customer needs. And our basic intellectual capital can be applied in different ways. So when I talk to our engineers, they don't talk about I build controllers that go into arrays that manage data. They realize that deeper down there's a kind of intellectual capital could go into a piece of software in the cloud. And there's a customer problem that we can go solve. So I think it's about being motivated by solving those customer data problems. >> So culture, some culture. >> It's culture. >> What are the products now, so you have a data, storage, storage stores data. So you don't need rocket science to figure out that you're storing data. >> I'll give you an example, there a lot of competitors in the flash storage business that have come into the market and basically gave up on us because we were late coming to that market. But we came in the market, we accelerated, we passed them, why is that? Partly, we built a good product at the flash storage layer. But more importantly we leveraged all of the storage management which we'd already built over 20 years. And so now we're suddenly out there with a very rock solid flash engine but it's supported by all the other capabilities which make it valuable to our customers. So it's not just, hey, here's a new tool, it's here's a new solution to your problem. And I think that's a big part of our DNA. And our technology side is we've been in data management for 20 years, we just never talked about it that way. >> So John, we had Dave Hitz on earlier, and he said that one of the keys to keeping away from the innovators dilemma has been that NetApp has leaned into the thing that will kill us. I tweeted that out, that's an awesome pull, that they've leaned into the things. As a partner though, that can be a bit scary. Technology is especially enterprise tech is a very stable thing. NetApp has been with ONTAP a very traditional partner even with fads and bringing those innovations to flash. How's that ride been for you guys over the past 25 years. >> It has been consistent, it has been a great partnership, and it continues to be a great partnership because as I look out and hone my portfolio of offerings and partnerships, NetApp stays very high in, that not just because we have a great run rate business, but because NetApp, in their innovation allows me to continue to solve problems with an existing partner, which makes us more efficient. Now, having said that we talked about you mentioned data fabric. That's a completely different discussion from a storage company. At first you think okay, I'm replicating data, I have a transport layer, that's fine. But what are you doing beyond that? I think you begin to see a new NetApp emerging as software defined. An organizing principle in my mind of the data fabric is it gives the customer freedom and flexibility that just buying storage doesn't give you. It gives them the flexibility to deploy in the cloud, next to the cloud, on-prem, as a virtual instance, as an AMI in the cloud, et cetera. So it allows the customer to place data and workloads where and when and how they want that makes sense for their business, not NetApp's business, or my business and so in that we're starting to see now with Anthony Lye's demo today of Cloud Orchestrator. >> Which, by the way, isn't shipping yet, but it's multi-cloud. >> Multi-cloud? >> It's multi-cloud instance. >> Yeah, that right there, and its applications, it's provisioning VM's, it's provisioning. >> If you guys get that to the market fast, it will be the first multi, True multi, orbiting call it real multi-cloud There's a lot of fake multi-cloud out there but that would be a real use case. >> And that's a completely different discussion so you know to kind of plagiarize, you can teach an old storage dog a new trick. So they transformed to meet the emerging needs of a new market, we are have to transform with them. So there's a bit of bumpiness that we're all going to experience as we learn that and do that. >> John, I just want to drill-down on that, I want to get also your both perspectives. What you're really teasing out with the Cloud Orchestrator demo in my mind, the impact of that demo significance is you guys as a storage company, now a data company, are enabling opportunities with the data. That's clearly what's happening, obviously, no debate there. But the impact is to developers. Now the developer dynamic is as these devops guys come in, there's new, there's re-skilling going on. So the biggest challenge of multi-cloud is each cloud has its own way to pipeline data or do things with data. So making that easy, I don't want to have to hire guys to program for each cloud. >> Mark: And they're hard to find. >> It's incredible, it's too hard. Abstracting that away is going to be a boon for the developer market. That's a new market, that's a different thing than NetApp. >> It's a very different market than we've been in before. >> So what are you doing? What's the plan, just continue to enable developers? >> Well, the comment you made earlier, about lean in to the thing that's going to kill you is exactly right, I wouldn't have said it quite like that but I'm not Dave Hitz. So we definitely, when we see a challenge we lean into it. And and that does two things, it's a little bit like, I don't know was it TaeKwonDo where you use the other competitors energy? >> I think it's judo. >> Think it's judo, use the other energy, the power the other opponent to win. And that's kind of what we're doing. I think when you do that it means we have to transform and our partners do, and you're a partner that's been with us long time, you've been through a lot of transitions. >> Yes we have. >> Well judo move is about leverage, and that's about having installed, you guys have that leverage with your customers. >> And the customers are moving as well, so we could try to keep them, hold them back. Or we can move with them and actually accelerate them to where they're going to our benefit, and to our partners benefit and I think that's what Dave was referring to. Well, Mark and John love to have you guys on, love to do a follow-up segment in Palo Alto, our offices are really across the yard from each other, certainly if you guys are in Sunnyvale This is a super important conversation. I'll give you guys the last word, impact to customers for NetApp with the new capabilities with data center innovation modernization, next gen data center, on-premise, true private cloud and power a horse in the cloud with data. All that working together in some cases end to end or in pieces whatever the customers is. What does it mean to the customer this new. >> I'll steal a line from our marketing teams and what it really means is it's going to enable customers to change the world with data. Transform their business, create new opportunities. >> It's a new wave in the economy. It's going to be disruptive and tumultuous for some. We have an opportunity to go into a customer and to help them find new ways, with their data, because the two key assets of company now is people and then data. So the people are there taking their data, allowing them to find new opportunities to go to market faster. NetApp's in a unique position. >> It reminds me of value creation, I mean a lot of stuff with blockchain you see the indicators, almost the Web1.0 again. You see in the new shift in architecture happening upside down it's almost reverse. >> The developer model's right. I mean you talk about Amazon, I think from 2008 until 2014 or 15 they introduced about three thousand new services on their platform. I don't see an average IT organization doing that. >> I think that rates gone up now. >> It's on an exponential growth there. >> I think we're starting to see the swim lanes, if you will, I'm calling them native clouds because they're so native. But they're also powering a new ecosystem and part of it, I wish we had more time to talk about the partner equation. There a lot of musical chairs going on in the partner ecosystem. You've been with NetApp from the beginning, congratulations. Congratulations on all the success on the platform and the product innovation. It's theCUBE bringing you the innovation and the data through our data fabric called theCUBE. We'll be back with more live coverage after this short break. >> Announcer: Coming off barrier breakers, status quo smashers, world.