>>Hey everyone. Welcome back to Miami. Lisa Martin here live with the Cube at IFS Unleashed 2022. We're so excited to be here. We just had a great conversation with Ifss, CEO of Darren Rouse. Now we've got another exciting conversation. F1 is here. You know how much I love f1. Christian Peterson joins us as well, the Chief Product Officer at ifs, and Sean Edwards IT business partner at Aston Martin. F1. Guys, it's great to have you on the program. Thank you for having >>Us. Thank you >>Very much. We were talking about F one. We probably could have an entire conversation just on that, but Christian, I wanna talk with you. It's been three years since the Cube has covered ifs obviously for obvious reasons during that time. So much momentum has happened. IFS cloud was launched about 18 months ago. Give our audience an o, a flavor of IFS, cloud and some of the milestones that you've hit in such a short time period. >>Yeah, I mean IFS cloud is really transformational in many ways. It's transformational for first and foremost for our customers in what enables them to do, but also transformational for us from a technology perspective, how we work and how we do everything. And at the end of the day, it has really surfaced, served around the the, the fact of what we need to do for our customers. And what we saw our customers often do back then, or any company, was they were out looking for EAP solutions or FSM Solutions or EAM Solutions or what have you. And then they were trying to stitch it all together and we, we said like, Hang on a second, these these traditional software s, those are some that I'm guilty. You know, there's some that we actually invented over the years together with analysts. So we invented EER P and we invented CRM and EAM and all these different things. >>But at the end of the day, customers really want a solution to what they are, they are what they're dealing with. And so in these conversations it became very clear that and very repeated conclusions from the conversations that customers wanted something that could manage and help them optimize the use of their assets. Regardless of what industry you're in, assets is such a key component. Either you are using your assets or you're producing assets. Second thing is really get the best use of of your people, your teams and your crew. How do you get the right people on the right job at the same time? How do you assemble the right crew with the right set of skills in the crew? Get them to the right people at the same time. So, and then the final thing is of course customers, you know all the things that you need to do to get customers to answer these ultimate questions, Will you buy from this company again? And they should say yes. That's the ultimate results of moments of service. So that's how we bring it all together and that's what we have been fast at work at. That's what IFS cloud is all about. >>And you, you talked about IFS cloud, being able to to help customers, orchestrate assets, people, customers, Aston Martin being one of those customers. Shawn, you came from ifs so you have kind of the backstory but just give the audience a little bit of, of flavor of your role at Aston Martin and then let's dig into the smart factory. >>Sure. So I previously worked at IFS as a manufacturing consultant. So my bread and butter is production planning in the ERP sector. So we, I Aston Martin didn't have an ERP system pre IFS or a legacy system that wasn't working for them and the team couldn't rely upon it. So what we did was bring IFS in. I was the consultant there and as IFS always preached customer first, well customer first did come and I jumped to support the team. So we've implemented a fully RP solution to manage the production control and the material traceability all the way through from design until delivery to track. And we've mo most recently implemented a warehouse solution at Trackside as well. So we are now tracking our parts going out with the garage. So that's a really exciting time for RFS. In terms of the smart factory, it's not built yet. >>We're we're supposed to move next year. So that's really exciting cause we're quadrupling our footprint. So going from quite a small factory spread out across the North Hampton Share countryside, we're going into one place quadruple in our footprint. And what we're gonna start looking at is using the technology we're implementing there. So enabling 5G to springboard our IFFs implementations going forward with the likes of Internet of things to connect our 15 brand new CMC machines, but also things like R F I D. So that comes with its own challenges on a Formula One car, but it's all about speed of data capture, single point of truth. And IFFs provides that >>And well, Formula One, the first word that comes to mind is speed. >>Absolutely. Second >>Word is crazy. >>We, we are very unique in terms of most customers Christian deals with, they're about speed but also about profit and efficiency. That doesn't matter to us. It is all about time. Time is our currency and if we go quicker in designing and manufacturing, which ifs supports ultimately the cargo quicker. So speed is everything. >>And and if we, if we think of of people, customers and assets at Asset Martin F one, I can't, I can't imagine the quantity of assets that you're building every race weekend and refactoring. >>Absolutely. So a Formula one car that drives out of the garage is made up of 13,000 car parts, most of which, 50% of which we've made in house. So we have to track that all the way through from the smallest metallic component all the way up to the most complex assembly. So orchestrating that and having a single point of truth for people to look at and track is what IFFs has provided us. >>Christian, elaborate on that a little bit in terms of, I mean, what you're facilitating, F1 is such a great example of of speed we talked about, but the fact that you're setting up the car every, every other weekend maybe sometimes back to back weeks, so many massive changes going on. You mentioned 50% of those 13,000 parts you manufacture. Absolutely. Talk about IFS as being a catalyst for that. >>I mean the, it's, it's fascinating with Formula One, but because as a technology geek like me, it's really just any other business on steroids. I mean we talk, we talk about this absolutely high tech, super high tech manufacturing, but even, even before that, the design that goes in with CFDs and how you optimize for different things and loose simulation software for these things goes into manufacturing, goes into wind tunnels and then goes on track. But guess what, when it's on track, it's an asset. It's an asset that streams from how many sensors are on the car, >>I think it's over 10,000 >>Sensors, over 10,000 sensors that streams maybe at 50 hertz or 50 readings. So every lap you just get this mountain of data, which is really iot. So I always say like F one if one did IOT before anybody invented the term. >>Absolutely. >>Yep. You know, F1 did machine learning and AI before anybody thought about it in terms of pattern recognition and things like that with the data. So that's why it's fascinating to work with an organization like that. It's the, it's the sophistication around the technologies and then the pace what they do. It's not that what they do is actually so different. >>It is, it absolutely isn't. We just have to do it really quickly. Really >>Quickly. Right. And the same thing when you talk about parts. I mean I was fascinated of a conversation with, with one of your designers that says that, you know, sometimes we are, we are designing a part and this, the car is now ready for production but the previous version of that part has not even been deployed on the car yet. So that's how quick the innovation comes through and it's, it's, it's fascinating and that's why we like the challenge that Esther Martin gives us because if we can, if we can address that, there's a lot of businesses we can make happy with that as far, >>So Sha I talk a little bit about this is, so we're coming up, there's what four races left in the 2022 season, but this is your busy time because that new car, the 23 car needs to be debuted in what February? So just a few months time? >>Absolutely. So it's a bit cancer intuitive. So our busiest time is now we're ramping up into it. So we co, we go into something called car build which is from December to December to February, which is our end point and there's no move in that point. The car has gotta go around that track in February. So we have got to make those 13,000 components. We've gotta design 'em, we've gotta make 'em and then we've gotta get 'em to the car in February for our moment of service. They said it on stage. Our moment of service as a manufacturing company is that car going around the track and we have to do it 24 times next year and we've gotta start. Well otherwise we're not gonna keep up. >>I'm just gonna ask you what a, what a moment, what's a moment of service in f1 and you're saying basically getting that >>Functional car >>On the track quickly, as quickly as possible and being able to have the technology underpinning that's really abstracting the complexity. >>Absolutely. So I would say our customer ultimately is the driver and the fans they, they need to have a fast car so they can sport it and they ultimately drive it around the track and go get first place and be competitive. So that is our moment of service to our drivers is to deliver that car 24 times next year. >>I imagine they might be a little demanding >>They are and I think it's gonna be exciting with Alonzo coming in, could the driver if we've gotta manage that change and he'll have new things that he wants to try out on a car. So adds another level of complexity to that. >>Well how influential are the drivers in terms some of the, the manufacturing? Like did they, are they give me kind of a a sense of how Alon Fernando Alanzo your team and ifs maybe collaborate, maybe not directly but >>So Alonzo will come in and suggest that he wants cars to work a certain way so he will feed back to the team in terms of we need this car, we need this car part to do this and this car part to do that. So then we're in a cycle when he first gets into the car in that February, we've then gotta turnaround car parts based off his suggestions. So we need to do that again really quickly and that's where IFS feeds in. So we have to have the release and then the manufacturer of the component completely integrated and that's what we achieve with IFFs and >>It needs to be really seamless. >>Absolutely. If, if we don't get it right, that car doesn't go out track so there's no moving deadline. >>Right. That's the probably one of the industries where deadlines do not move. Absolutely. We're so used to things happening in tech where things shift and change and reorgs, but this is one where the dates are set in their firm. >>Absolutely. And we have to do anything we can do to get that car on the track. So yeah, it's just a move. >>Christian, talk about the partnership a little bit from your standpoint in terms of how influential has Aston Martin F1 been in IFS cloud and its first 18 months. I was looking at some stats that you've already gotten 400,000 plus users in just a short time period. How influential are your customers in the direction and even the the next launch 22 R too? >>I mean our customers do everything plain and simple. That's that's what it is. And we have, we have a partnership, I think about every single customer as a partner of ours and we are partnering in taking technology to the next level in terms of, of the outputs and the benefits it can create for our customers. That's what it's all, all about. And I, I always think about these, these three elements I think I mentioned in our state as well. I think the partnership we have is a partnership around innovation. Innovation doesn't not only come from IFS or the technology partner, it comes from discussions, requirements, opportunities, what if like all these things. So innovation comes from everywhere. There's technology driven innovation, there's customer driven innovation, but that's part of the partnership. The second part of the partnership is inspiration. So with innovation you inspire. So when you innovate on something new that inspires new innovation and new thinking and that's again the second part of the partnership. And then the third part is really iterate and execute, right? Because it's great that we can now innovate and we can agree on what we need to do, but now we need to put it into products, put it in technology and put it into actual use. That's when the benefits comes and that's when we can start bringing the bell. >>And I think it's really intrinsically linked. I mean if you look at progress with Formula One teams and their innovation, it's all underpinned by our technology partners and that's why it's so important. The likes of Christian pushes the product and improves it and innovates it because then we can realize the benefits and ultimately save time and go faster. So it's really important that our, our partners and certainly inform one, push the boundaries and find that technology. >>And I think one of the things that we also find very, very important is that we actually understand our customers and can talk the language. So I think that was one of the key things in our engagement, Martin from the beginning is that we had a set of people that really understand Formula One felt it on their bodies and can have the conversation. So when the Formula One teams they say something, then we actually understand what we're talking about. So for instance, when we talk about, you know, track side inventory, well it's not that different from what a field service technician have in his van when he goes service. The only difference is when you see something happening on track, you'll see the parts manager go out to the pit lane with a tablet and say like, oh we need this, we need that, we need this and we need that. And then we'll go back and pick it and put it on the car and the car is service and maintain and off go. Absolutely. >>Yeah that speed always impresses me. >>It's unbelievable. >>Shannon, last question for you. From a smart factory perspective, you said you're moving in next year. What are some of the things that you are excited about that you think are really gonna be transformative but IFS is doing? >>So I think what I'm really excited about once we get in is using the technology they've already put in terms of 5G networks to sort of springboard that into a further IFS implementation. Maybe IFFs cloud in terms of we always struggle to keep the system up to date with, with what's physically happening so that the less data entry and the more automatic sort of data capture, the better it is for the formula on team cuz we improve our our single point of truth. So I'm really excited to look at the internet of things and sort of integrate our CNC machines to sort of feed that information back into ifs. But also the RFID technology I think is gonna be a game changer when we go into the new factory. So really >>Excited. Excellent. Well well done this year. We look forward to seeing Alonso join the team in 23. Fingers >>Crossed. >>Okay. Fingers crossed. Christian, Jeanette, it's been a pleasure to have you on the program. Thank you so much for sharing your insights and how ifs asked Martin are working together, how you really synergistically working together. We appreciate your time. >>Thank you very much for having us. Our >>Thanks for having us. And go Aston >>Woo go Aston, you already here first Lisa Martin, no relation to Aston Martin, but well, I wanna thank Christian Peterson and Shannon Edwards for joining me, talking about IFS and Aston Martin team and what they're doing at Speed and Scale. Stick around my next guest joins me in a minute. >>Thank you.

>> Announcer: Live from Boston, Massachusetts. It's theCUBE, covering IFS World Conference 2019. Brought to you by IFS. >> We're back at IFS World 2019 from the Hynes Convention Center in Boston. I'm Dave Volonte, with my co-host, Paul Gillen. You're watching theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. We go out to the events, we extract the signal from the noise, get the best guest, Christian Peterson is here. He's the chief product officer at IFS. Christian, great to see you. >> All right, thank you very much. Happy to be here. >> Your first IFS World Conference, so ... >> It is mine ... >> Mine too, so ... >> Yeah, I'm happy to be here. It's just like getting an injection of customer input and feedback in a very short amount of time So, that's uh, that's awesome. I really love it. >> Yeah, these events are great to connect with customers its one to many conversations. But, give us a sense of your background and why you were attracted to IFS. Why did you join? >> Well from a background perspective, I've always been in the effects of business and technology and uh, you know my passion has always been what we can actually do with technology for businesses to innovate, to differentiate, to do new things to automate things. Really, really a strong believer in the promise of software. Because that's what software is all about. Um, so, um, I have a past with Starbucks, I've started ELP companies, I've been with Microsoft. Uh, for fifteen, sixteen years. Um, have been with SAP for a number of years. So I joined, I joined IFS last year, um, really because of the transformation and the uh, the journey I just was on and the passion that IFS has always had for the customers. And the outcomes we've created for customers. It's just a perfect environment to, to uh to realize the dream of providing value to customers, outcomes for customers, and leveraging technology in the process. >> Yeah, so see you're a challenger, hashtag for the challenger. A hashtag is started. >> Really, really I mean you were at the giant uh, SAP and going to a smaller, not much smaller, but a smaller company, What were they doing that you thought that excited you so much? >> Well the exciting thing again is the focus on the customer and the close proximity to customers in everything I.. >> Wouldn't SAP, sorry to interrupt, wouldn't SAP be the same thing though? >> Let me just, let me put it this way, I went to IFS because I (intelligible) really, really brilliantly. So, is that a, is that a nice way of saying it. (laughter) >> (laughing) Okay. >> So were here for your keynote today you sort of laid out a roadmap, a little vision uh, talked a little bit about digital transformation. But, I wanted to talk about, the, you made a big big emphasis on your API platform. Open API's, embracing that, uh its been somewhat a criticism of you guys in the past. And so, maybe it's a response to that or a response to customers, but why the platform, why, to explain it, its importance and how it fits into your roadmap going forward. >> Well the API enablement is important for many different perspectives. First of all, we use API's ourselves. To create user experiences and drive a lot of the innovation where they are merging technology and so forth. That's one aspect of it. So just for our own, our own level of innovation and the pace at which we can innovate with, going forward on the API platform, is, is, is is dramatic. The second area is really again back to the digital transformation that customers are really driving out there um, a lot of that involves, um, really most companies becoming software companies themselves. So now we have a lot of our customers that actually have developers, they're writing software they're driving new offerings to their customers. And to get value out of these offerings for their customers They really need to get access to a a lot of the capabilites that lives inside of the IFS models. They need to get access to data, to get access to processes because, on of the keys in digital transformation regardless in what shape or form it comes is, you need data, you need massive amounts of data. And you need data from within your firewall you need data from third party, and you need structure data all structure data. And participating in that world is absolutely essential that you have that open API philosophy where you expose yourself and your own data and API's. But, also so we can turn the other way and we can consume data and API's from others so we can create similar scenarios. So it's really about being apart of the ecosystem of, uh, of technologies and solutions that customers rely on. And that's why we joined also, the open API foundation. >> You also demonstrated this morning, uh Orena, your new customer experience platform. Talk about what that is and why it's important. >> Well, so it's, it's important of course again because we, um, um, we have this generational shift in people that are coming into the workforce that expect and want to work differently. And, um, if you think about how people actually work, to do and get things done today, or think about ourselves. Now, we're no spring chickens anymore, right, we've been around... >> Speak for yourself. >> We've seen DOS, we've seen DOS systems. >> Yeah my hand went up in the 3.1 question. >> When the three point, did you put the mouse on the screen as well? (laughing) I've literally seen that. So we've been through that, but the people we are getting into the workforce now they have a different mentality. They are not thinking about what they do. Like, we are thinking about, "how does the system work?" "Where do I click? Where do I go next?" The intuition that people now apply to the system when they start working with them, the systems just have to reflect that intuition. It has to be intuitive, it has to be immersive as well. And the immersive part is really based on what the users see, what they do. The contextual information, the contextual intelligence they get in the context of what they do should want them to do more. Because they can, so they get dragged in and the new type of users, they just have that natural intuition, because that's how you browse the web. You go to one place on the web, go to the next thing, You get inspired by this, you go there. And there's no reason why the systems that you get your work done, why they shouldn't be the exact same thing. Orena is a huge step in that direction, together with our mobile enablement on multiple form factors and devices. >> So you, you mentioned you know saw everybody's becoming a software company, every company is becoming, you've been in the software business for awhile you work for a software company now. You're talking about Orena, you're talking about API integration, I showed you our software. My point is, software is hard. (laughs) There's a talent war for employees, we talked about that off camera. Um, so, as you see these companies digitally transforming, becoming software companies, Mark Endrese's, "software is eating the world", Mark Beneoff, "Everybody is becoming a software company", How are they doing? And what role can you play, IFS, in terms of helping them become a software company. Because it's, it's so damn difficult. >> Yeah, I think that the role of being a software company I think the absolute differentiation they want to create through software and differentiate the offerings or other things that they really want to do, We can't really help them there, because they're differentiated. Like if you're differentiated, you can't find something standard and use for that. But we can enable it and um, as we're looking at it, a lot of the emerging technologies that we can enable them with to achieve it, that's a number of things we can do. And, we are introducing a notion of an application, of application services here, where we really, enable these emerging technologies in the context of what we do. So, while you hear about technologies or augmented realities, mixed realities, artificial intelligence and robotics and IOT and artificial intelligence, all the stuff that you have, we take that and put into context of the focus industries that we focus on and the solution categories that we focus on. So EAP, enterprise asset management, service management. And in that way our customers can focus on what they actually need to do with it, versus focus on the, on the technologies. >> And the API platform allows those customers to, whatever the build to integrate to their ERP system if in fact... >> That's correct, that's correct. And as I mentioned, we also use API's not only on the front end of what we provide and expose all we have, but we also consume on the back end. So the way we actually consume the application services and drag them in and embed them is through API, these application services. >> I understand you're working on an entirely new architecture that you will be debuting in the spring of 2020. How is that going to change the game? >> We don't really think about it as a new architecture. We think about it as a natural evolution that includes some of these things. Uh, so for instance, the introducing, uh the introduction of the application services layer that I mentioned, is more a new layer in our architecture that we introduced. So we don't think about it as a new architecture, we're just evolving what we have. And because of that evolution, that is something that our entire product portfolio will benefit from. Um, and, I already mentioned today how we are aligning the product portfolio from an experience perspective. We are bringing the arena experience through our FSM product to our um, PSO product, to our customer engagement product and so forth. So we are aligning that front end experience on the same design patterns, so forth, because you know, a good experience is a good user experience. >> You talk about Orena bot and this, this gentleman here, who's given us this talk, just through out a gardner status. That, that by, I don't know, by whatever year 2023, uh, more money will be spent on bots than mobile integration. Which is, you know, quite a prediction. Your thoughts. >> Well, I, you know, there's, there's always all kinds of interesting predictions. I think actually, um, I actually think, um, there, amount of money may go down but I think the number of bots will go up dramatically. And, I think we will actually get to a situation where, bots will be creating bots. (laughs) Right? So, That's when you get, when we talk about intelligent and autonomous systems, I really believe it. Because there is no reason why we should not begin to see autonomy in software. >> Dave: Right. >> Um, we see it, uh, I use the example this morning, that we put our lives in the hands of technology everyday, when you go in your car and you use adaptor to cruise to control, you're trusting technology. Like, when you are driving your Tesla. I mean there was an example in San Francisco, uh, I think, uh, in December last year, where the police had been following a driver for 17 miles. And the car wouldn't stop because it was driving itself, and the driver was sleeping. So, they had to, they had to, you know, call up Tesla and say like how can we manipulate this technology so the car actually stops, so the police gradually got the car to stop. And, uh, you know, finally the guy woke up and uh, he'd probably had one too many. But he claimed he wasn't driving, so they shouldn't charge him, but, they did. (laughter) >> Of course, yes. Well bots are getting better, but I still, I still often know when I'm talking to a bot, but it's getting better, wouldn't you say? >> Christian: Yeah, it's getting reallly good. >> Paul: I know, last year I was completely fooled by a fundraising bot. But, I got a phone call from a bot that I spoke to for ninety seconds before realizing it was a bot. (laughter) So it's, its getting pretty good. As you look at, at the technology that excites you, about what you're bringing with your product, you talked a lot this morning about different kinds of technology and how you want to be a leader. What technologies excite you the most about the markets you are serving? >> I tell you what excites me the most is to work through the different levels of, of, uh, digital transformation that I talked about. I'm excited about the reflection between businesses and technology. I'm excited about the reflections between people and experiences, and I'm excited about the reflections between automation and efficiency. We have a lot of technology at our hands, That can help us achieve these different things. But, at the end of the day, it's the outcomes that matter. The technologies are exciting and you know, I can get super geeky about a lot of different technologies. But if it doesn't relate to any, any, not technical vision of product, but any business vision you have on what you actually want to do with it as a business, then I think it becomes dangerous. But, of course we have our geek sessions, where we geek out on all these different things. But, we try to separate that from when we actually, uh, you know, designing and building things directly into the product. But we need the geek sessions to get inspired. And understand what is available, so we can put it in the context of what our customers need today and also what they'll be needing in the future. >> Since you have some decent observation space and digital transformation, I want to ask a question. Uh, uh, our partner ETR, they have a data platform. And I was down in New York last week just talking to them and, one of the theories is, is so spending is starting to slow down a little bit overall on the macro. One of the theories is that digital transformation in the last two years, there's been a lot of experimentation. So a lot of try and, you know, everything. And now they're going into the production with, with what they, what they feel will delivery business value. And two things are happening is their premise. One is, they're narrowing down the focus on new technologies and make, making bets for all the disruptive technologies. The other is, a lot of the legacy stuff, they are pulling out. Saying, "okay, we're moving on." Um, are you seeing that, are you seeing this sort of... That, the bell weathers anyway going heavy now into production with digital transformation. What are you seeing? >> I think its a progression. >> Dave: Uh huh. >> I think it's scenario based. I don't see, I don't see companies making like, an all out bet from one day to another. >> Dave: Just mixed. >> It's mixed and I think you need to take a cautious approach because, you know, you don't, you... When you're in the technology world, you don't always get it right in the first go, we certainly don't get it right, the first time all the time, right? So, often times its important to get something out there. Learn from it, innovate, fail fast sometimes. Um, the worst thing you can do is not acknowledge when you have mad a mistake, And I think that is a risk that some companies also, bear with digital transformation is... If you need to adjust what you, what you thought was the right thing to do, make the adjustment as quickly as possible. >> Dave: You talked in your keynote about tailoring solutions and I want to understand your philosophy. How dogmatic are you, uh, uh, about, uh, not making customizations versus allowing your customers to make those, those tailored? And, and how do you manage that from a, you know cloud and SaaS delivery, evergreen, I think you call it stand point? >> Christian: We, we, absolutely believe that customers should have solutions that match exactly what they need and so forth. We also heard from stage today that, a good philosophy, I really subscribe to that philosophy, that if you're doing things that, you know, is not really differentiating you as a company or something just use a standard process. Why do something custom if it doesn't mean anything. Then you can adjust your processes to that. But if you have things that really differentiate you as a company, you obviously want to have the technology that supports that. And since that is differentiated, you're not likely to have a standard package file. So in that process, what we need to enable is, we need to enable these scenarios where you can extend, uh, we call it extend on the inside, extend on the outside, but you can achieve what you want but, do it in a way where, you do it in a declarative way. Not by creating or modifying code. So instead we want to make sure that our, the code that we have, that is part of the standard product, can actually interpret declarative code. And that means when we have upgrades and all that stuff, we upgrade the core but the declarative code that the customer has that is, specific to them, remains there and stays there. >> Dave: And that's why the API platform is critical. >> Paul: Right. >> You said no product will be announced or shipped without API enablement, period the end. >> That's correct, We can not because, we can not create a use of front end to anything that doesn't, that isn't API enabled. So, it's very simple. >> Paul: That's a modern architecture. I am curious about you said that one of the reasons that you're at IFS is because it's so customer focused. What is it that this company does differently from companies you've worked at in the past, that exemplifies that customer focus? >> Christian: I think it goes deep um, not only into the culture but also how we actually have people in, all the way in to the individual development teams. Um, I've been in other software companies and the development teams you have developers, you have QA's, you have, you know...testers, you have, you know... Programming just to write the specifications, so forth. We actually have industry solution specialists embedded into the development teams. So, we are, we are, probably our own, you know, worst critic um, and of course then working hand and hand with customers in their processes is essential. But again, if we don't provide the out...if we don't provide the value and the output from what we create for our customers, then it's worth nothing. And that's really the philosophy. If we do not provide value, technology means nothing. >> Dave: So the intersection of domain expertise and software development. Uh Chris, the last question is sort of, what do you hope to get out of this event? Things that you hope to, to take away, or learn or convey to your customers? >> Well I always, I always, look to get feedback. I'm a sucker for feedback and input and learning. Uh, so first of all, I can't wait to walk the expo floor here and really see what all our partners are bringing to the table of innovation. Because they're doing amazing things, so I always enjoy spending a few hours on the, on the expo floor. In the process, get to meet a lot of people, uh and then during the sessions if we can or I'll always end any presentation with an email address. Any, anybody, any customer, any partner will always be able to email me, uh directly, and I, you know... Sometimes a little hard to keep up, but I will respond to every single request. >> Dave: Feedback is a gift. Christian, thanks so much for coming on theCUBE, it was great to see ya. >> Thank you. >> Alright, thank you very much. >> Alright, thank you for watching everybody. Keep it right there, we'll be back with our next guest. We're at IFS World, Boston. You're watching theCUBE. (upbeat music)

>>Bly from Boston, Massachusetts. It's the cube covering ifs world conference 2019 brought to you by ifs. >>Okay. We're back in Boston, Massachusetts ifs world day one. You walked into cube Dave Vellante with Paul Gillen boss Devoss is here. He's the director of ISF I F S labs and Bob Dico who's the vice president of AI and RPA at ifs jets. Welcome. Good to see you again. Good morning bossy. We're on last year. I'm talking about innovation ifs labs. First of all, tell us about ifs labs and what you've been up to in the last 12 months. Well, I have has Lapsis a functioning as the new technology incubator. Fire Fest writes over continuously looking at opportunities to bring innovation into, into product and help our customers take advantage of all the new things out there to yeah. To, to create better businesses. And one of the things I talked about last year is how we want to be close to our customers. And I think, uh, that's what we have been doing over the pasta pasta year. Really be close to our customers. So Bob, you got, you got the cool title, AI, RPA, all the hot cool topics. So help us understand what role you guys play as ifs. As a software developer, are you building AI? Are you building RPA? Are you integrating it? Yes, yes. Get your paint. >>I mean, our value to our customers comes from wrapping up the technology, the AI, the RPA, the IOT into product in a way that it's going to help their business. So it's going to be easy to use. They're not going to need to be a technical specialist to take advantage of it. It's going to be embedded in the product in a way they can take advantage of very easily that that's the key for us as a software developer. We don't want to offer them a platform that they can just go and do their own thing. We want to sort of control it, make it easier for them. >>So I presume it's not a coincidence that you guys are on together. So this stuff starts in the labs and then your job is to commercialize it. Right? So, so take machine intelligence for example. I mean it can be so many things to so many different people. Take us back to sort of, you know, the starting point, you know, within reason of your work on machine intelligence, what you were thinking at the time, maybe some of the experiments that you did and how it ends up in the product. Oh, very good question. Right? So I think we start at a, Oh, well first of all, I think ifs has been using a machine learning at, at various points in our products for many, many years of Trumbull in our dynamic scheduling engine. We have been using neural networks to optimize fuel serve scheduling for quite some many years. >>But I think, um, if we go back like two years, what we sold is that, uh, there, there's a real potential, um, in our products that if you will take machine learning algorithms inside of the product to actually, um, help ultimately certain decisions in there, um, that could potentially help our business quite a bit. And the role of ifs lapse back in the day as that we just started experimenting, right? So we went out to different customers. Uh, we started engaging with them to see, okay, what kind of data do we have, what kind of use cases are there? And basically based on that, we sort of developed a vision around AI and a division back in the day was based on on three important aspects, human machine interaction optimization and automation. And that kind of really lended well with our customer use case. We talked quite a bit about that or the previous world conference. >>So at that point we basically decided, okay, you know what, we need to make serious work of this, uh, experimenting as boots. But at a certain point you have to conclude that the experiments were successful, which we did. And at that point we decided to look at, okay, how can we make this into a product and how to normally go system. We started engaging with them more intensively and starting to hand over in this guys, we decided the most also a good moment to bring somebody on board that actually has even more experience and knowledge in AI and what we already had as hive as labs. But that could basically take over the Baton. And say, okay, now I am going to run with it and actually start commercializing and productizing that still in collaboration with IVIS laps. But yeah, taking that next step in the road and then then Bob came onboard. >>Christian Pedersen made the point during the keynote this morning that you have to avoid the, the appeal of technology for technology's sake. You have to have it. I start with the business use case. You are both very technology, very deep into the technology. How do you keep disciplined to avoid letting the technology lead your, your activities? >>Well, both. Yeah. So, so I think a good example is what we see this world's going fronts as well. It is staying closer to customer and, and, and accepting and realizing that there is no, um, there's no use in just creating technology for sake of technology as you say yourself. So what we did here for example, is that we showcase collaboration projects with, with customers. So, for example, we show showcase a woman chair pack, which um, as a, as a manufacturing of spouting pouches down here in Massachusetts actually, uh, and they wanted to invest in robotics to get our widows. So what we basically did is actually wind into their factory literally on the factory floor and start innovating there. So instead of just thinking about, okay, how do robotics and AI for subrogations or one of our older products work together, we set, let's experiment on the shop floor off a customer instead of inside of the ivory towers. Sometimes our competitors to them, they'll start to answer your question. >>Sure. I can pick up a little, a little feasible. Yeah. Well, so in, I think the really important thing, and again, Christian touched on it this morning is not the individual technologies themselves. It's how they work together. Um, we see a lot of the underlying technologies becoming more commoditized. That's not where companies are really starting to differentiate algorithms after a while become algorithms. There's a good way of doing things. They might evolve slightly over time, but effectively you can open source a lot of these things. You can take advantage, the value comes from that next layer up. How you take those technologies together, how you can create end to end processes. So if we take something like predictive, we would have an asset. We would have sensors on that asset that would be providing real time data, uh, to an IOT system. We can combine that with historical maintenance data stored within a classic ERP system. >>We can pull that together, use machine learning on it to make a prediction for when that machine is gonna break down. And based on that prediction, we can raise a work order and if we do that over enough assets, we can then optimize our technicians. So instead of having to wait for it to break down, we can know in advance, we can plan for people to be in the right the right place. It's that end to end process where the value is. We have to bring that together in a way that we can offer it to our customers. There's certainly, you know, a lot of talk in the press about machines replacing humans. Machine of all machines have always replaced humans. But for the first time in history, it's with cognitive functions. Now it's, people get freaked out. A little bit about that. I'm hearing a theme of, of augmentation, you know, at this event. >>But I wonder if you could share your thoughts with regard to things like AI automation, robotic process automation. How are customers, you know, adopting them? Is there sort of concern up front? I mean we've talked to a number of RPA customers that, you know, initially maybe are hesitant but then say, wow, I'm automating all those tasks that I hate and sort of lean in. But at the same time, you know, it's clear that this could have an effect on people's jobs and lives. What are your thoughts? Sure. Do you want to kick off on them? Yeah, I'll know. Yeah, absolutely. That's fine. So I think in terms of the, the automation, the low level tasks, as you say, that can free up people to focus on higher value activities. Something like RPA, those bots, they can work 24, seven, they can do it error free. >>Um, it's often doing work that people don't enjoy anyway. So that tends to actually raise morale, raise productivity, and allow you to do tasks faster. And the augmentation, I think is where it gets very interesting because you need to, you often don't want to automate all your decisions. You want people to have the final say, but you want to provide them more information, better, more pertinent ways of making that decision. And so it's very important. If you can do that, then you've got to build the trust with them. If you're going to give them an AI decision that's just out of a black box and just say, there's a 70% chance of this happening. And what I founded in my career is that people don't tend to believe that or they start questioning it and that's where you have difficulty. So this is where explainable AI comes in. >>I do to be able to state clearly why that prediction is being made, what are the key drivers going into it? Or if that's not possible, at least giving them the confidence to see, well, you're not sure about this prediction. You can play around with it. You can see I'm right, but I'm going to make you more comfortable and then hopefully you're going to understand and, and sort of move with it. And then it starts sort of finding its way more naturally into the workplace. So that's, I think the key to building up successful open sexually. What it is is it's sort of giving a human the, the, the parameters the and saying, okay, now you can make the call as to whether or not you want to place that bet or make a different decision or hold off and get more data. Is that right? >>Uh, yeah. I think a lot of it is about setting the threshold and the parameters with within which you want to operate. Often if a model is very confident, either you know, a yes or a no, you probably be quite happy to let it automate. Take that three, it's the borderline decision where it gets interesting. You probably would still want someone to look over it, but you want them to do it consistently. You want them to do it using all the information to hand and say that's what you do. You're presented to them. And to add to that, um, I think we also should not forget they said a lot of our customers, a lot of companies are, are actually struggling finding quality stuff, right? I mean aging of the workforce riots, we're, we're old. I'm retiring eventually. Right? So aging of the workforce is a potential issue. >>Funding, lack of quality. Stop. So if I go back to the chair pack example I was just talking about, um, and, and, and some of the benefits they get out of that robotics projects, um, um, is of course they're saving money right there. They're saving about one point $5 million a year on money on that project, but their most important benefits for them, it's actually the fact that I have been able to move the people from the work floor doing that into higher scope positions, effectively countering the labor shortage today. They were limited in their operations, but in fact, I had two few quality stuff. And by putting the robots in, they were able to reposition those people and that's for them the most important benefits. So I think there's always a little bit of a balance. Um, but I also think we eventually need robots. >>We need ultimation to also keep up with the work that needs to be done. Maybe you can speak to Bobby, you can speak to software robots. We've, Pete with people think of robots, they tend to think of machines, but in fact software robots are, where are the a, the real growth is right now, the greatest growth is right now. How pervasive will software robots be in the workplace do you think in the three to five years? >> I think the software robots as they are now within the RPA space, um, they fulfill a sort of part of the Avril automation picture, but they're never going to be the whole thing. I see them very much as bringing different systems together, moving data between systems, allowing them to interact more effectively. But, um, within systems themselves, uh, you know, the bots can only really scratched the surface. >>They're interacting with software in the same way a human would on the whole by clicking buttons going through, et cetera, beneath the surface. Uh, you know, for example, within the ifs products we have got data understanding how people interact with our products. We can use machine learning on that data to learn, to make recommendations to do things that our software but wouldn't be able to see. So I think it's a combination. There's software bots, they're kind of on the outside looking in, but they're very good at bringing things together. And then insight you've got that sort of deeper automation to take real advantage of the individual pieces of software. >> This may be a little out there, but you guys >>are, you guys are deep into, into the next generation lot to talk right now about quantum and how we could see workable quantum computers within the next two to two to three years. How, what do you think the, the outlook is there? How is that going to shake things up? So >>let me answer this. We were actually a having an active project and I for slabs currently could looking at quantum computing, right? Um, there's a lot of promise in it. Uh, there's also a lot of unfilled, unfulfilled problems in that, right? But if you look at the, the potential, I think where it really starts playing, um, into, uh, into benefits is if the larger the, the, the optimization problems, the larger the algorithms are that we have to run, the more benefits it actually starts bringing us. So if you're asking me for an for an outlook, I say there is potential definitely, especially in optimization problems. Right. Um, but I also think that the realistic outlook is quite far out. Uh, yes, we're all experimenting it and I think it's our responsibility as ifs or ciphers laps to also look on what it could potentially mean for applications as we FSI Fs. >>But my personal opinion is the odd Lucas. Yeah. So what comes five to 10 years out? What comes first? Quantum computing or fully autonomous driverless vehicles? Oh, that's a tricky question. I mean, I would say in terms of the practical commercial application, it's going to be the latter in that much so that's quite a ways off. Yeah, I think so. Of course. Question back on on RPA, what are you guys exactly doing on RPA? Are you developing your own robotic process automation software or are you integrating, doing both say within the products? We, you know, if we think of RPA as, as this means of interacting with the graphical user interface in a way that a human would within the product. Um, we, we're thinking more in terms of automating processes using the machine learning as I mentioned, to learn from experience, et cetera. Uh, in a way that will take advantage of things like our API eighth, an API APIs that are discussed on main stage today. >>RPA is very much our way of interacting with other systems, allowing other systems when trapped with ifs, allowing us to, to send messages out. So we need to make it as easy as possible for those bots to call us. Uh, you know, that can be by making our screens nice and accessible and easy to use. But I think the way that RPA is going, a lot of the major vendors are becoming orchestrators really. They're creating these, these studios where you can drag and drop different components into to do ACR, provide cognitive services and you know, elements that you could drag and drop in would be to say, ah, take data from a file and load it into ifs and put it in a purchase order. And you can just drag that in and then it doesn't really matter how it connects to YFS. It can do that via the API. And I think it probably will say it's creating the ability to talk to ifs. That's the most important thing for us. So you're making your products a RPA ready, friendly >>you, it sounds like you're using it for your own purposes, but you're not an RPA vendor per se. You know what I'm saying? Okay. Here's how you do an automation. You're gonna integrate that with other RPA leadership product. I think we would really take a more firm partner approach to it. Right? So if a customer, I mean, there's different ways of integrating systems to get our RPA as a Google on there. There's other ways as well, right? That if a customer actually, um, wants to integrate the systems together using RPA, very good choice, we make sure that our products are as ready as much for that as possible. Of course we will look at the partner ecosystem to make sure that we have sufficient and the right partners in there that a customer has as a choice in what we recommends. But basically we say where we want to be agnostic to what kind of RPA feminists sits in there that was standing there was obviously a lot of geopolitical stuff going on with tariffs and the like. >>So not withstanding that, do you feel as though things like automation, RPA, AI will swing the pendulum back to onshore manufacturing, whether it's Europe or, or U S or is the costs still so dramatically advantageous to, you know, manufacture in China? Well, that pendulum swing in your opinion as a result of automation? Um, I have a good, good question. Um, I'm not sure it's will completely swing, but it will definitely be influenced. Right. One of the examples I've seen in the RPA space ride wire a company before we would actually have an outsourcing project in India where people would just type over D uh, DDD, the purchase orders right now. Now in RPA bolts scans. I didn't, so they don't need the Indian North shore anymore. But it's always a balance between, you know, what's the benefit of what's the cost of developing technology and that's, and it's, and, and it's almost like a macro economical sort of discussion. >>One of the discussions I had with my colleagues in Sri Lanka, um, and, and maybe completely off topic example, we were talking about carwash, right? So us in the, in the Western world we have car wash where you drive your car through, right? They don't have them in Sri Lankan. All the car washes are by hands. But the difference is because labor is cheaper there that it's actually cheaper to have people washing your car while we'd also in the us for example, that's more expensive than actually having a machine doing it. Right. So it is a, it's a macro economical sort of question that is quite interesting to see how that develops over the next couple of years. All right, Jess. Well thanks very much for coming on the cube. Great discussion. Really appreciate it. Thank you very much. You're welcome. All right. I'll keep it right there, but he gave a latte. Paul Gillen moved back. Ifs world from Boston. You watch in the queue.

>> Announcer: Live from Nice, France, it's theCUBE. Covering .NEXT conference 2017 Europe. Brought to you by Nutanix. >> And we're back, I'm Stu Miniman and you're watching theCUBE, happy to welcome to the program, first time guest Christian Pedersen, who's the CEO and founder of Zentura, a service provider based in Denmark. Christian, thanks so much for joining us. >> Thank you. >> Alright, so tell us a little bit about what led you to create the company, a little bit about your background, and then we'll get into it. >> My background is from Citrix, I'm a Citrix consultant, back from the ages of the wind frame and all the old stuff, and in 2006 I founded Zentura with a focus on Citrix consulting services and all the stuff around Citrix, and quite fast, we saw the trend in the market to become a service provider so we started up with some of our on prem customers and moved them into a traditional hosting virtualization platform. >> So did you start as hosting? Were there certain Citrix services that you were offering to your customers? Walk us through that kind of progression. >> Our product is something we call Business Cloud. It's a brand of the Citrix platform, and it's a full service platform for our customers. So everything is around Citrix. The connectivity to our platform is Citrix based, yeah. >> Okay, and how big, do you have multiple data centers? How many customers do you have? Give us some of the speeds and feeds. >> We have two data centers and we have roughly 3,000 people connecting into our site on some customers. We're mainly focusing on legal and accounting customers, with special demands for 24/7, yeah. >> Okay, and all of your customers are in Denmark, correct? >> All of our customers are in Denmark. Some of them have branch offices in the U.K., and in Germany, and one in Russia. >> Okay, so why don't you bring us up to speed as to, when did you start looking at Nutanix, what lead you kind of down that path? I'd like to understand a little bit about kind of, the problem statement, the criteria, what lead to that? >> The beginning, as we were Citrix house, then of course we started with SAN server that made really good sense for us because it was a Citrix product. And quite fast, it became really complex. And, the development of our platform was quite fragmented over the years. So we really needed to, I've seen Nutanix at Synergy from the beginning, and I saw on the keynote where Mark Templeton roll in a block of Nutanix. So just doing VDI and I said okay this is VDI and what really was, a huge game-changer for me was when Nutanix introduced AHV because I really liked many of the concepts about putting the whole stack into the cloth so you don't have, you don't rely on external management. You don't rely on that many components. You don't have sequel as a back end. We were evaluating a lot of stuff, a lot of products, how we could simplify our current environment. Because, we had huge issues. >> Yeah so you're Citrix client, were you running Zen before, what was your environment before? >> Our existing environment was a mix. We had eight clusters, some of them on Zen, different versions, because the upgrade part was a pain. It required a lot of downtime, and we only security patched on critical patches. We didn't do major release upgrades because we had so many issues with it. And some years before we introduced Nutanix. We switched to, half of our stack to VMware, because that solved some of our issues. They have a good way of handling and migrating data inside their own platform. But quite fast, the cost became an issue for us because the cost, as a service provider, of course you just pay in bids and you pay per usage but still the cost was just going sky-high. >> Okay, so it was AHV, was that the catalyst to get you to Nutanix then? >> Christian: Exactly. >> It wasn't kind of a hyper-converged, or it definitely wasn't VDI. >> I'm quite old in this field, and I really like the idea of having a say on all things and I was not easy to convince that this was a good idea. It's like in the past when you know, when people are switching from regular computers to a SAN, everybody says, "Oh I want my data on my computer." >> Yeah, trust me, I worked on a lot of the early SAN stuff, rolled that out. >> Exactly. >> And Wikiban, we actually created the term Server SAN which was all of the functionality and things that you loved in a SAN, we're just going to do it on the server, is really what that is. >> Christian: Exactly. >> As opposed to, Nutanix started out, "Oh there's no SAN." And I'm like, No, no no, you're going to scare off all the people that used it. That was also my biggest concern, it really was. But, when Nutanix started with the VMware we did a business case on it and it wasn't feasible because we still have the VMware and licensing costs and also now we have the Nutanix licensing cost and it was not easy to create the business case because the customers, they don't care what we put underneath because they only look on cost. And, if I add something to my stack, then I only add some cost, and maybe I can do something a bit more efficient but that's it. >> Okay so have you swept the floor now, EHV everywhere? Or you know, what's up? >> Yeah, we did a full turn for replacing everything, all legacy. We did, inside our business we did a survey with all our employees, and said okay, instead of doing just a business case bit by bit, you know how you do normally, to compare licensing costs and all that. We said, okay we want everything in this business case, not only products. So all the consultants went out with the, the main issues were all the complexity because it was not easy, we had people on network, we had people on storage, so we always have to ask another one if you want to provision something and the sales guys need to go to the tech guys okay do we have enough storage for this? And what about the IOS, and yeah. There was a lot of issues with this and also working at night on all the change windows and doing all the storage, Tetris moving workloads, because customers were unsatisfied on this platform, we can move it to the new platform. We had so many issues with this. So we actually ended up just, we discussed internally and said, okay if we're going to do this then we are going to do it 100%. It's not just putting Nutanix inside and move something. So internally in the board we discussed and said, okay it's now or never, because this is going to be our window of opportunity to grow and expand. So we discussed and we agreed on a total replace. Everything, network, everything. So we switched all our existing infrastructure and migrated all the legacy workloads onto Nutanix in a four to six month time frame. And we didn't have extract of that time so it was quite manually. >> Yeah, so obviously you're here so it went okay. Take us through, what did you learn, you know, four to six months is not a short period of time, so, you know, looking back, what lessons learned, what would you recommend to your peers to make things even better if, what would you change if you had to go back? >> What I would change that I didn't do it before, because it would have made sense. Actually we had quite new equipment, we just bought a new SAN one year before that. It wasn't even old, that was an issue. But the cost of the existing, even though we had bought it, the cost was getting too high. We were using too many hours on maintaining this and-- >> The best time to do this would have been a year ago, but the second best time is to do it now. Don't push it off for another year. >> Exactly, exactly. And what, yeah, we should have done it before. But I don't think Nutanix was mature for this at the moment. But now, one year before this, I was actually convinced. >> So, AHV, there's, they think they're approaching, about a third of customers are using AHV now. >> Christian: Yeah. >> You said it's mature now, you're happy with it. What more do you want to see out of AHV, where would you like to see them continue to add features and maturity? >> Yeah, as a service provider, of course AHV has some limitations compared to all of the other stacks because the multi-tendency is a big requirement for a service provider. But we're taking it kind of from another approach to it. Because they have all the AVIs, so we can just do it ourselves. We have all the AVIs exposed, right now we're working on a billing model because in our business case it was not only IT, it was also the management and all the accounting and all the other things. If we can optimize those, the whole business case would look even better. So we're working on a model where the system automatically bills the customers and everything sends status reports to customers. So before they get an invoice they know if they want to to change something. Because our solution right now is fully managed. So it's fully managed from our side, because we have some issues with the multi-tendency stuff. >> And what management stack are you using today? Is it in-house or, you know, what are you using? >> What? >> Management stack are you using? >> In-house, yeah. >> Yeah, pretty typical for a service provider. >> It is, yeah. >> Have you looked at some of the management tools from Nutanix or? >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm paying a lot of attention, I'm calm. >> Yeah. >> Because it really makes really, really, good sense for us. >> When will, what does it need for you to be able to consider it even further? >> I need to play with it, I need to try it out. I've only seen some sessions. I also saw it last year and I've been following it closely. But from a slide to getting in production, it takes some time and I really need to play with it. It looks really amazing. >> Most service providers spend the time kind of building their stacks though, going from, I've got it, to that is challenging. >> But now we're really moving and we can see how much time we use on a day-to-day basis. I think we cut the time to one-tenth of what we would do before. We had a lot of things-- >> Stu: You're saying for managing? >> Yeah for managing infrastructure and doing changes because if you have a really fragmented solution then you have a lot of people you need to involve because, he knows best about this cluster, and all the differences in this cluster. And that was also one of the biggest pains. And also the Nutanix strategy, this is, as I said to all the employees, this is the final migration we're going to do, ever. Because now, it's rip and replace. And now we can see in the past, we used the senior consultants for expanding clusters and adding new clusters and doing network, doing a lot of stuff. Right now we moved the, down in the chain, so it's the regular support guy. He can put in a note right now and he can do the expand of the cluster. We do it in a regular service window. Now it's not an extraordinary service window, nothing. >> Alright so, Christian, you're so happy with the Nutanix? You're not only a customer, you're also a channel partner? >> Exactly. >> What lead to that? What services were you already offering for there and what lead to you look to move down that path? >> We saw a lot of synergies because we could also, we could extend the enterprises, and use cases. We had Nutanix and if we could sell Nutanix to some of our customers, maybe we could do some replication and DR for our customers as a service. Now Nutanix, of course, is moving to what's the A type, but that's our idea and we already have some customers signed up for disaster recovery as a service, on our AHV platform, and that made really good sense. And also, we did a lot of work in certifying all our employees, and why don't we, we have spare time now, why don't we use our knowledge and sell this product? It makes really good sense. And what I really also like about Nutanix, is there's not a one-size-fit-all. Because everybody needs, somebody can go public and somebody go private, and we have a lot of enterprise Citrix customers, because we have a small part of our company also through Citrix consulting, because that's our background. So we have a lot of potential customers there. >> Yeah, so I've watched over the last five years, there was a real tug back and forth between VMware and their service providers. They tried to, it was, vCloud Air, you're going to be a great partner. Oh wait, we're going to do it ourselves. Wait, we're going to do partner program. Oh wait, now Amazon and a couple of big ones are there. How is Nutanix as a partner for service? You mentioned Xi, is that something they'll partner with you on or is that something they're competitive on? >> And how do you look at that? >> Definitely. >> The main difference between, if you see all the other cloud providers and you see VMware and the other providers, this is one stack, it's still the same. You're not going to have to create a lot of stuff to adopt this. It can be quite easy for us. I see it as a possibility for us to of course sell this. We can be a reseller, we can just have one account and we can provision the customers' VMs in the Cloud. It sets us in a much better position than we were before because if we team up with AHSA or some of the other public cloud providers we are not in control anymore. It's easy to deploy and it's easy to work with if you know how to do it. But it's not that easy. Yeah. >> Well Christian Pedersen, really appreciate you sharing with us everything that you're doing at Zentura and your customers. Love to hear the inside at Denmark and what's happening there. I'm Stu Miniman, we'll be back with lots more coverage here from Nutanix .Next 2017 in Nice, France. You're watching theCUBE. (upbeat electronic music) (engine roaring)