>> Announcer: From around the globe, it's "theCUBE" with digital coverage of AWS "re:Invent" 2020. Sponsored by Intel, AWS and our community partners. >> Hi, everyone, welcome back to theCUBE's virtual coverage of AWS "re:Invent" virtual 2020. It's not an in-person event this year. It's remote, it's virtual, "theCUBE" is virtual and our guests and our interviewers will be remote as well. And so we're here covering the event for the next three weeks, throughout the next three cause we're weaving in commentary from "theCUBE", check out the cube.net and all of our coverage. And here at AWS we have special feature programming, we got a great segment here talking about big data in the cloud, governance, data lakes, all that good stuff. Rik Tamm-Daniels, vice-president strategic ecosystems and technology for Informatica, and Rick Turnock, head of enterprise data services, Invesco, customer of Informatica. Welcome to the cube. >> Hey John, thanks for having us. >> So Rik, with a K from Informatica, I want to ask you first, we've been covering the company journey for many, many years. Always been impressed with the focus on data and specifically cloud and all the things that you guys have been announcing over the years, have been spot on the mark. You know, AI with CLAIRE, you know, making things, cloud native, all that's kind of playing out now with the pandemic, "re:Invent", that's the story here. Building blocks with high level services, cloud native, but data is the critical piece again. More machine learning, more AI, more data management. What's your take on this year's "re:Invent". >> Absolutely John and again, we're always excited to be here at "re:Invent", we've been here since the very first one. You know, it's a deep talk to a couple of key trends there, especially the era of the global pandemic here. There's so many challenges that so many enterprises are experiencing. I think the big surprise has been, that has actually translated into a tremendous amount of demand for digital transformation, and cloud modernization in particular. So we've seen a huge uptake in our cloud relationships with AWS when it comes to transformational architecture solutions around data and analytics, and using data as a fundamental asset for digital transformation. And so some of those solution areas are things like data warehouse, modernization of the cloud, or end-to-end data governance. That's a huge topic as well for many enterprises today. >> Before coming into "re:Invent", I had a chance to sit down an exclusive interview with Andy Jassy. I just spoke with Matt Garman who's now heading up sales and marketing, who ran EC too. Rick, you're a customer of Informatica. Their big talking point to me and validation to the trends is, there's no excuse to go slow anymore because there's a reason to go fast cause there's consequences and the pandemic has highlighted that you got to move faster otherwise, you know, you're going to be on the wrong side of history and necessity is the mother of all invention. Okay, great. I buy that by the way. So I have no complaints on talking point there from Amazon Web Services. The problem is, you got to manage the data. (John chuckles) To go fast. The gas in the tank is data, and if it's screwed up, it's not going to go well, all right? So it's like putting gas in a car. So, this is where I see the data lake coming into the cloud and all the benefits and look at the successes of companies. The cloud is a real enabler. What's your take on this? The importance of data governance, because cloud scale is here, people want to go faster, data is like the key thing. >> Yeah. The data governance was a critical component when we started our enterprise data platform and looking at, you know, how can we build a modern-day architecture with scale, bringing our enterprise data, but doing it in a governed fashion. So, when we did it, we kind of looked at, you know, what are critical partners? How can we apply data governance and the full catalog capabilities of knowing what data's coming in, identifying it, and then really controlling the quality of it to meet the needs of the organization. It was a critical component for us because typically it's been difficult to get access to that right data. And as we look in the future and even current needs, we really need to understand our data and bring the right data in and make it easily accessible and governance, and quality of that is a critical component of it. >> I want to just follow up with that if you don't mind cause you know, I've done so many of these interviews, I've been on the block now 30 years in the industry, I've seen the waves come and go, and you see a lot of these mandates, you know, "Data governance, we're adding data governance." From the Ivory tower, or you hear, "Everything got to be a service." But when you peel back and look under the hood to make that happen, it's complicated. You've got to have put things in place and it's got to be set up properly, you got to do your work. How important it is to have... And well what's under the covers to this? Cause governance, yeah, it's a talking point, I get that. But to make it actually happen well, it's hard. >> We started really with the operating models from the start. So I kind of took over data governance seven years ago and had a governing global architecture that's been around for 40 years, and it was hard. So this was really our shot and time to get it right. So we did an operating model, a governance model, and it really ingrained it through the whole build and execution process. And so it was part with technology and it was foundational to the process to really deliver it. So it wasn't governance from a governance saying, it was really part of our operating model and process to build this out and really succeed at it. >> Rik, on the Informatica side, I got to get your take on the new solution you guys announced, "The Governed Data Lake", I think it was solution. Does this tie into that? Take a minute to explain the announcement, and how does this tie in? >> Yeah, absolutely John. So I think you take a step back, look at... We talked about some of the drivers of why companies are investing in cloud data lakes. And I think what comes down to is, when you think about that core foundation of data analytics, you know, they're really looking at, you know, how do we go ahead and create a tremendous leap forward in terms of their ability to leverage data as an asset. And again, as we talked about, one of the biggest challenges is trust around the data. And what the solution does though, is it really looks to say, "Okay, first and foremost, "let's create that foundation of trust "not just for the cloud data lake, "but for the entire enterprise. "To ensure that when we start to build this "new architecture, one, we understand the data assets "that are coming in at the very get-go." Right? It's much harder to add data governance after the fact, but you put it in upfront, you understand your existing data landscape. And once that data is there, you make sure you understand the quality of the information, you cleanse the data, you also make sure you put it under the right data management policies. So many policies that enterprises are subject to now like CCPA and GDPR. They have to be concerned about consumer privacy and being able as part of your governance foundational layer, to make sure that you're in compliance as data moves through your new architectures. It's fundamental having that end trust and confidence to be able to use that data downstream. So our solution looks to do that end-to-end across a cloud environment, and again, not just the cloud environment, but the full enterprise as well. One thing I do want to touch on if you don't mind is on the AI side of things and the tooling side of things. Because I think data governance has been around a while, as you said, it's not that it's a new concept. But how do you do it efficiently in today's world? >> John: Yeah. >> And this is where Informatica is focused on a concept of data 4.0. Which is the use of metadata and AI and machine learning and intelligence, to make this process much, much more efficient. >> Yeah that's a good point, Rik, from these two Rickes, I got to go, one's with a K, one with a C, and CK. So Rick, CK and from Invesco customer, I want to just check that with you because I was your customer of Informatica, by they brought up a good point about governance. And I saw this movie before, we've all seen this before, people just slap on solutions or tooling to a pre-existing architecture. You see that with security, you know, now it's, you can't have a conversation without saying, "Oh security's got to be baked in from the beginning." Okay cool, I get that. There's no debate there. Governance, same kind of thing, you know, you're hearing this over and over again, if you don't bake governance into the beginning of everything, you're going to be screwed. Okay? So how important is that foundation of trust for this peace. (Rick mumbling) >> It's critical and to do it at beginning, right? So you're profiling the data, you're defining entitlements and who has access to it, you're defining data quality rules that you can validate that, you define the policies, is there a PII data, all of that, as you do that from the start, then you have a well-governed and documented data catalog and taxonomy that has the policies and the controls in place to allow that to use. If you do it after the fact, then you're always going to be catching up. So a part of our process and policies and where the really Informatica tools delivered for us is to make it part of that process. And to use that as we continue to build out our data platform with the quality controls and all the governance processes built in. >> I got to ask on your journey, that's seven years ago, you took over the practice. You were probably right in the middle of the sea change when everyone kind of woke up and said, "Hey, you know, Amazon, you go back seven years, "look at Amazon where they were to where they are today." Okay? Significantly strong then, total bellwether now in terms of value opportunity. So, how did you look at the cloud migration? How do you think about the cloud architecture? Because I'm sure, and I'd love to get your story here about how you thought about cloud, in the midst of architecting the data foundational platform there. >> Yeah, we're a global company that had architecture, we grew it by acquisition. So a lot of our data architecture was on-prem, difficult really to pull that enterprise data together to meet the business needs. So when we started this, we really wanted to leverage cloud technology. We wanted a modern stack. We wanted scale, flexibility, agility, security, all the things that the cloud brought us too. So we did a search, and looking at that, and looked at competitors, but really landed on to Amazon just bought by core capabilities and scale they have innovation and just the services to bring a lot what we're looking at and really deliver on what we wanted from a platform. >> Why Informatica and AWS, why the combination? Can you share some of the reasons why you went with Informatica with AWS? >> Yeah, again, when we started this off, we looked at the competitors, right? And we were using IVQ. So we had an Informatica product on-prem, but we looked at a lot of the different governance competitors, and really the integrated platform that Informatica brings to us, what was the key deliverer, right? So we can really have the technical metadata with EDC and enterprise data client, catalog, scan our sources, our file, understanding the data and lineage of what it is. And we can tie that into axon and the governance tools to really define business costs returns. We were very critical of defining all our key data elements business glossary, and then we can see where that is by linking that to the technical metadata. So we know where our PII data, where are all our data and how it flows, both tactically and from a business process. And then the IDQ. So when we've defined and understand the data, we want to bring in the delight and how we want to conform it, to make it easily accessible, we can define data quality rules within the governance tool, and then execute that with IDQ, and really have a well-defined data quality process that really takes it from governance in theory to governance in really execution. >> That's awesome. Hey, you are using the data, you're using the cloud, you're getting everything you need out of it. That's the whole idea, isn't it? >> Yeah. >> That's good stuff, Rik at Informatica, tell us about what's going on, you mentioned data 4.0, I think people should pay attention to some of the interviews I've done with your team. They're online also, it's part of that next-gen, next level thinking. Here at "re:Invent", what should customers pay attention to, that you guys are doing? Great customer example here of cloud scale. What's the story for "re:Invent" this year for Informatica. >> But what John, it comes down to when customers think about their cloud journey, right? And the difference, especially with their data centric workloads and priorities and initiatives, all the different hurdles that they need to overcome. I think Informatica we're uniquely positioned to help customers address all those different challenges and you heard Rick speak about a whole bunch of those along the way. And I think particularly at "re:Invent", first of all, I just welcome folks to... They want to learn more about our data governance solution. Please come by our virtual booth. We also have a great interactive experience that encouraged folks to check out. One of the key components of our solution is our enterprise data catalog. And attendees at "re:Invent" can actually get hands on with our data catalog through the demo jam, the AWS demo jam as part of "re:invent". So I'd encourage folks to check that out as well, just to see what we're talking about yet actually. >> Awesome. Final question for you guys, as "re:Invent" is going on, a lot app stores are popping up, you seeing obviously the same trends, machine learning and you know, outpost is booming, so a cloud operations is clearly here, Rick from Invesco, what do you think the most important story is for your peers as they're here? It's a learning conference and you guys have seven years in the cloud working together with Informatica, in your opinion, what should people be paying attention to as they looked at this pandemic and what they got to get through? And then coming out of it with the growth strategy, it's all got to be more about the data, there's more data coming in, more sources, IoT data, certainly the work at home is causing these workloads, workplace, workflows, everything's changed, the future of work. What's your advice to peers out there on what to pay attention to and what to think about? >> We really started with a top-down strategy, right? To really the vision and the future. What do we want to get out of our data? Data is just data, right? But it's the information, it's the analytics, it's really delivering value for our clients, shareholders, and employees to really do their job, simplify our architecture. So really defining that vision of what you want and approach, and then executing on it, right? So how do you build it in a way to make it flexible and scalable, and how do you build an operating and governance model really to deliver on it because, you know, garbage in is garbage out, and you really got to have those processes, I think to really get the full value of what you're building. >> Get the data out there at the right place, at the right time and the right quality data. That's a lot more involved now and you need to be agile. And I think agile data is a way to go. Rick Turnock... >> And then with channels and capabilities that makes it easier, right? It makes it doable. And I think that's what cloud and the Informatica tools, right? Where in the past, you know, it was people hard coding and doing it right? The capability of that cloud and these tools give us makes it really achievable. >> You know, we have an old saying here in our CUBE team, you know, "If there's a problem, "you got to see if it's important, "and then look at the consequences "of not solving that problem, quantify the value of "solving or not solving that problem, "and then look and deploy solutions to do it." I think now with the data, you can actually do that and say, "This ain't quite the consequences of not doing this "or doing this, have a quantifiable value." I just loved that because it brings the whole ROI back to the table. And, you know, it's a dark art, it used to be, you mentioned the old days, you know, you got to do all this custom work, it was like a dark art. Oh yeah, the ROI calculation, payback. I mean, it was a moving train. That's the way it used to be. Not anymore. >> You got to do it to survive, really, if you're not doing it, you know, I don't know. >> Necessity is the mother of all inventions I think, now more than ever, data's going to be the key. Rik final word from Informatica. What should people pay attention to? >> Yeah, I mean, I think as you mentioned there, data is obviously a critical asset, right? And, and to your point with cloud, you can not only realize ROI quickly, but, you can actually iterate so much more quickly, where you can get that ROI immediately or you can validate that ROI, you can adjust your approach. But again, from an Informatica standpoint, we are seeing such a huge uptake in demand for customers who want to go to the cloud, who are modernizing. Every day we're investing heavily and how do we make sure that customers can get there quickly? They can maximize the ROI from their data assets, and we're doing it with all things, data management, from traditional data integration, all the way to the data governance, all the capabilities we talked about today. >> Yeah. Congratulations. That's the benefit of investing in a platform and having a set of out of the box tooling with SaaS, platform as a service, really it can enable success. And I think the pandemic is pretty obvious who's taking advantage of it, so congratulations and continued success. Thanks for coming on. Appreciate it. Rick Turnock, head of data service, enterprise data services at Invesco, customer of Informatica sharing his insight. Great insight there. Necessity is the mother of all inventions, baking it in from the beginning data governance foundational, it's not a bolt on, that's the message. I'm John Furrier with theCUBE. Thanks for watching. (soft music)