>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas it's the CUBE covering IBM Think 2018. Brought to you by IBM. (upbeat music) >> Welcome back to the CUBE we are live at Day one of IBM Think 2018, I'm Lisa Martin with Dave Vellante we're at Mandalay Bay in Las Vegas, 40 plus thousand people at this event, we're excited to welcome to the CUBE Ashok Reddy the Group GM of DevOps at CA, welcome to the CUBE. >> Great to be here. >> So you were at IBM, you're now at CA, you came over a couple of years ago. Digital business transformation, a buzzword, we talk about it a lot on the CUBE, I want to kind of kick things off with you about what is CA seeing with respect to helping businesses evolve to a digital enterprise? What is a digital enterprise and where does trust come into that as a key enabler? >> Yeah I think that, you know, when you look at the enterprise all businesses today are becoming technology-based businesses, so it doesn't matter what industry you are in, whether you are financial services, garment retail, so every industry's innovation is coming from technology and software. So in that context, if somebody, if I'm a bank today and people used to walk into my, you know use the ATM or they will come into my store, but you may deal with a few hundred or few million people, but now when you become a digital enterprise, you're scaling from a few hundred, a few million to almost a billion people or more who could be accessing your services all the web, all the mobile, as well as now AI as a channel. So how do you actually work, scale the business from just dealing with people who you had prior relationships with to people who have to deal with now billions of people, could be devices and bots, in a very digital world where you don't have prior trust and relationships established. So that's where I think about digital enterprise as who is moving from a traditional way of doing business to now you're scaling to five to six billion people, devices, and everything else, but then the trust comes in because how do you trust whether a user is actually a real user or if I'm a user how do I trust a enterprise because I'm dealing with them virtually. So this really becomes a two-way thing, so it's really that trust becomes much more important. >> I want to come to back to trust in a minute but this whole notion of digital, everybody talks about digital transformation, different things to different people, everybody uses the uberization example, but everybody's trying to get digital right, all the customers that we talk to, the companies that are organizing around it. Do you see that in the marketplace and what is your advice to customers who are tryin' to get it right? >> Yeah I mean, I think it's a great question, I think part of the being digital is really about are you, sometimes people are what I call digital washing things, you basically adopt a few things, but in a true sense of digital, it's all about how do I actually understand the user needs and experimentation? It starts with really, you have a hypothesis and how do I actually go about acquiring new customers and not just a few but where you're trying to acquire millions of them and in a digital world, you are establishing things where we call, you know people talk about there are different channels, right, digital sales and others. Most of the enterprises typically have been dealing with direct relationship, so if I want to now create awareness of my services and products as a company, it's not about direct sales anymore, people are using different means to understand about the products and services themselves. So it becomes more about in that context your sales will have to change in the first place, your marketing has to be about, you know, how do I acquire digital in a channel perspective. So you're to change your processes such that feedback becomes much more important, it's not about just selling, people actually use your product and now you're getting feedback and that needs to be very much faster than what it used to be, because it's all about experience and people are going to change, you know if you don't get a response on your mobile app for a few seconds they're going to switch, it's not that way in a traditional way, right. So the type of things what people do in a digital is quite different than in a traditional way. >> I want to follow that up with an observation, and get CA's point of view, or maybe even your personal point of view. When you think about mobile, social, cloud, SAS, big data, these aren't really discrete industries anymore, they've sort of all come together, and it seems like digital is about these sets of digital services that are built on top of all those things. I mean when you think about even, logging in with LinkedIn, Twitter, or Facebook, I mean those are digital services that we can all access and it seems like disruption is coming from companies who are able to form new businesses leveraging those digital services that are a part of this new fabric that's emerging. So is that a reasonable premise? And where does CA fit in that fabric? >> Yeah, you know I think that's a, you know basically what has happened, right, if I look at more from a applications perspective we have gone from traditional line-server, desktop applications to web to mobile, but now the latest thing is AI, right? It's more like AI first applications, so when I look at a process perspective, the disruptions you are talking about is people used to do waterfall and then it was fast waterfall then agile came in and people are saying, "Okay let me develop," the development become agile, but you need to bring the rest of the organization and that where DevOps came in. But now you're looking at, if I am looking at an application and I want to build an application and get feedback, people who build cloud-first models that's what it work, like whether it's an Amazon or LinkedIn, examples you are giving, but now if the application itself is changing, right? I look at it as like a thermostat, a digital thermostat verses a Nest, when I develop and deploy something quickly, it was still predefined, it's a deterministic application but now with the AI type application where everybody is going towards the application itself starts changing, it starts learning and now it starts going to make decisions so how do you actually develop and deploy, test something which you don't know what it's going to do based on the data and that's really the next paradigm, right? Because the cloud itself is making everybody equal because if everybody uses SAS applications on the cloud so what's a differentiation for a company? So that's where I think we look at it as you really still need to understand your customers, your domain, and being able to understand and learn from them and the specific algorithms or whatever you apply, you train that and how what action you're going to take is where we think CA, when we say transform it's not just about transforming how do you do development and how do you do infrastructure and moving cloud, but just because you become a cloud, everybody can go to cloud and infrastructure, people are providing AWS and Azure and IBM Cloud, then what happens to the companies, right? To me that's where the transformation is the secret sauce of what industry you're in, how you understand your customers and what you're going to do with it. >> Okay so I would agree, cloud, let's call it, let's say cloud is table stakes, right? I mean, it's there, sets of services that anybody can use. Then there's data, that's a little harder, putting data at the core of your enterprise is nontrivial and then applying machine intelligence or AI to that data, to learn, to improve, and to have a culture of speed and DevOps, that's the hard part. So that's where CA fits, is that right? >> Ashok: Yeah you know I think so. >> Maybe you could add some color. >> Exactly right so from a data perspective part of it comes from, you know when you are collecting all this information from different companies and people, privacy becomes a big issue, right? So how do you make sure that the data somebody gives you is private and you're not sharing it with somebody else? And people are sharing personal information here, including the IP addresses, where you are located, if you think about all of us, there is so much information about us available. But how do you make sure that that's private? And it's almost like I use an example of somebody gives you a credit card information on the digital world, it's almost like you are going, it's like somebody giving you a wallet and you're looking at their entire wallet just because they gave you a credit card, right? So we need to make sure that we actually are focusing on the privacy, so we actually help customers around making sure that data what's private, and whether it's data in rest or in data in motion, and there's lots of laws like GDPR and others where, in Europe for example, right, you can't have the data leave a particular country or a data center, so how do you make sure that happens? And the second part is, in machine learning there's so much bias in the data, the machine learning is nothing but computational statistics and it's going to come up with a signal based on the data you provide. What if there is data is biased? There's a lot of bias in the data and now how do you know whether you can prevent the, you know the bias in the data? And then you know we have a lot of other things, but it's about the speed and agility, but also how do I test things? And make sure that, you know, the data itself is one aspect but the services are available to you 24 by seven anytime anywhere. >> With respect to some of the announcements that have come out already from IBM, related to cloud, related to AI, you mentioned security, what excites you in your role as the group GM for DevOps in terms of the directions that they're going and especially where AI is concerned? >> No, you know I think IBM you know when I look at through all the way when the first tunnels to the Jeopardy and the Watson, I think there has been so much of innovations and a lot, and of course there has been a lot of hype also, but I think now you are getting to a point where there is significant progress in both machine learning as well as applying deep learning and some of the things that are solving real-world problems like healthcare, right? You're trying to solve, people talk about AI well it's going to take away jobs, but I think it's not taking away jobs it's the tasks people won't do, most people have a lot of tasks, mundane tasks, but if you are able to solve the world's biggest problems some healthcare related, you're finding people who are disabilities and a lot of things around, if you look at the automation which is creating really new opportunities for many people to focus on the higher value things. So I think the IBM has brought together industry focus, which is great, it's not just about technology but let me go and look at healthcare industry, the supply-chain with blockchain, right? I think the combination of blockchain with AI and machine learning is also changing the whole aspects of what we knew, the trust comes back into this because you know IBM is announcing with the hyperledger, something around zero knowledge proof which is really around, if you are somebody who is let's say you're under 21, you look like you're somebody who is under 21. >> Lisa: Thank you. >> And if somebody has to check your proof of age on a, somebody not knowing you on the web or on the digital world, how do they verify that? Without you giving too much information. So that's something where, it's like zero knowledge proof, so that's being built into the blockchain, so things like that, combining blockchain and now with the mainframe that is a z14, which has highest levels of encryption. So you can really start providing a true system of trust and a digital trust for, both from a user's perspective as well as enterprises. >> Yeah the whole KYC, know your customer, is just exploding in terms of interest and importance and you guys are obviously, it sounds like you're participating there directly. >> Yeah we are launching a bunch of this mainframe as a service for that to help customers because we also have problems with people retiring on the mainframe and they don't understand so what we're doing is to bring a notion of how do I use the tools I already know, like opensource tools or whatever, so we have an initiative for Brightside which is really help developers use the things that they already know but underneath the covers they're actually building things for the mainframe. So that solves the problem of knowing the mainframe but don't make mainframe different. >> So on, kind of closing things out, from an innovation perspective, one of the things that you talked about with automation, and we heard this earlier Dave from KPMG, is that machine learning and AI are actually going to be enablers of a lot of things including new opportunities, new careers paths, et cetera, rather than looking at it as oh there's going to take away humans for jobs, I thought that was interesting that you brought that up. Talk to us about the innovation, the culture of innovation, at CA, how is the culture enabling you to do your job better and really work with customers in a symbiotic way to really understand what problems need to be solved? What's the innovation culture like? >> Yeah I mean that's actually you know we actually have a, we've created a more like a incubation program, a startup within CA, and one of the things we have done is if anybody has a really good idea to solve a customer outcome, we kind of go through this whole like a mini while process and they actually come in and pitch the idea, then we actually fund those as a separate start ups within the company, we have more than 15 startups, some of them are graduated, either they, we buy them internally from a different business unit or we can even we take them public to other companies, right? So we have done that, which is energized a lot of the people like they can become their own founders and they can bring the innovations. But within even the product development teams we do a lot of hackathons and being able to use AI and machine learning and blockchain, we are basically build up machine learning first culture, so everybody from people who have been there for 30 years to people who are just come in are all learn this and they're looking at what are the type of things I can apply AI for my data to improve how I can look at patterns and improve the automation. But there is also, as applications become AI first, how can kind of help customers around that? So I think it's a exciting time for everybody and we are seeing that are already in terms of the numbers of innovations and patterns we're finding. >> Well Ashok, thanks so much for sharing your insights and what's going on with IBM in CA, we thank you so much for your time. >> Oh great, thank you for having me on. >> We want to thank you for watching the CUBE. We are live at Day one of IBM's inaugural Think event, I'm Lisa Martin with Dave Vellante, stick around Dave and I are going to be right back with our final guest and then we'll do a wrap of the exciting things that we've heard today. We'll be right back. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's the Cube, covering AWS Reinvent 2017, presented by AWS, Intel and our ecosystem of partners. (ambient music) >> We're back live here on the Cube, along with Stu Miniman, I am John Walls and we're live here right smack dab in the middle of the show floor. A giant show floor here at the Sands Expo between the Palazzo and the Venetian, Las Vegas. Reinvent AWS putting on a four day extravaganza. Keynotes this morning, they were jammed pack. The show floor continues to be just all a buzz with a lot of positive vibe and activity and here to talk about not only what's happening here but what's happening at CA Technologies is Sushil Kumar, who's the SVP of Product Management there, or an SVP. Sushil, nice to have you with us. Thanks for being here on the Cube. >> Thank you it is my pleasure, thanks for having me here. >> Let's talk about first off your idea about what's going on here, as far as the show goes, you said this particular event has a different feel to you than others you been at in the past. How so? >> Absolutely, you know, and that starts with the name itself, right? It's called Reinvent and what is very different about this show is this is all about creation, so all the conversation is about how can we use the latest and greatest technologies to build something new, right? And kudos to Amazon for creating that environment where they position themself as enabler rather than creators and the power of creation lies in masses, right, so it's amazing to see the energy and the creativity and truly it's infectious, right, so. >> So Sushil, it's interesting, I've seen a lot of AWS ads at airports. They're targeting, you know, their audience are builders and that's why I think exactly what you're saying. Want to hear what you're hearing from customers because you know, for some customers that's super exciting. You talk about the developer community. For some customers it's like wait, hold on, are they talking to me? Are they leaving me behind? I'm curious what you're hearing from the customer. >> You know that's a great question because look, we have been a 40 year old company and the only way you survive for so long is you constantly adapt yourself to the changing needs that customers have. And one of the biggest challenges that customers have today is around reinvention, right? Which is in, whether you call it digital transformation, whether you call it software-defined business, businesses across all industries and segments, they're all trying to reinvent and become as creative as, you know, some of the start-ups from Silicon Valley. And one of the biggest challenges that they are facing is how to go about that process, right? And we know a thing or two about that because we ourself have been a 40 year old company. So, our motto as a company is around helping our customers become modern software factories, which is all about how to become an agile and iterative, and essentially be obsessively focused around customer experience, because that's one thing, you know, people may have a lot of definitions of digital transformation, but one thing that separates Amazon and Netflix of the world is obsession on customer experience. And, we are playing a part, right? The whole model of software factory is about making these businesses much more customer-centric. And the part of business that I come from is all about how can we provide other customers the to ability to measure customer experience, use that information to improve their product and always constantly iterate so that they meet or exceed customer experience. So one of the products that we have is called Digital Experience Insights, right. It's a product that essentially provides a holistic overview of what I call the entire digital delivery chain, which starts all the way with the user's device, which could be a mobile device, could be web, all the way to the layers of business transactions, and then the maze of entrusted care, which may involve cloud, maybe more than one cloud, maybe even in some cases even mainframes, so that's another thing that we see customers struggling with because many times, as geeks, we tend to paint the picture black and white. Either you are modern or you are legacy. A lot of customers fall somewhere in the middle. And, you know, they are looking up to us to help successfully navigate that transformation. And that's exactly what we are focused on. That's why Amazon has been such a great partner. >> I want to, you've used the term reinvent a bunch, and when I think about the analytics space, we've gone through a bunch of waves here. Big data, one, lot of discussion, some mixed results from customers. Real renaissance in what's happening really in the analytics space. Amazon, of course, participating in that. What are you seeing, what's new at CA in working with AWS on that? >> You know, again, if you look at the problem that I described, you know, the problem statement is very simple. We all want to understand customer experience. We all want to put ourself in the shoes that customers have. We live in a world where the customer attention span is three seconds. If within three seconds, your page doesn't load, or something that they expect doesn't happen, you have lost that customer forever. But in order to solve that simple problem, which is to be proactive and, you know, and have empathy for customers, the challenge is that you need so much of data, right? You need data from the customer's handheld devices, you need data from all the servers, all the applications. You need log data, you need metric data, you need event data, and all of the sudden you realize that there is so much of data that the commercial way of monitoring, which around dashboard alerting, doesn't work anymore, right? What you truly need to do is to take all of these signals and automatically analyze to extract insight, that one or two actionable insight that helps you stay ahead of the curve. And that's all about analytics. In fact, I cannot think of a better use case for analytics than this whole digital experience management, because it's not that the customers haven't had these data points. They have had all the data points, but mostly they have been siloed, and like we saw this morning in Andy Jassy's announcement, the machine learning and AI field is constantly evolving, but the machines can only do so much unless you help feed them the data, right? And that's one of the things that we are trying to do with our operational intelligence solutions as well as Digital Experience Insight, is to bring all the data together, feed it to the machines, and algorithms, so that they can make sense out of that, and extract holistic insight that helps customers stay ahead of the curve. I'll give you three examples. For example, you know, we have a major broadcast partner, who did a mobile ad during the election time, and they needed to engage their customers better. They needed to understand what customers going through, and through the use of the application experience analytics, they were able to iterate applications and within three months their user retention increased three-folds. There's another customer which is a major broadcaster based out of Europe. They use our product to essentially get the data from the cycling events to provide their customers a very unique second screen experience. And that's I think the exciting part. As much as we all love our products and tools, it's all about what unique opportunity provide to our customers to innovate and succeed in the marketplace. >> Now, we've talked about reinvent as a term. It's necessary, right, but it's scary too. I mean, if I'm a company and I'm just moving along, my life's fine, right? I don't want to have to upset my applecart if I don't have to. And yet, when you bring these notions to me of new capabilities, of putting OI to practice for me, new analytics, my eyes start to roll a little bit, my head starts to spin a little bit. So what kind of hand holding do you have to do at the end of the day to show them that there is a better mousetrap, there is a better way, and that if you don't change, your success today is going to be gone tomorrow. >> And that's a really great question. I think what we see from all customers, almost all of them want to change. But, in oftentimes the magnitude of the exercise is so big that they're daunted. They don't even know where to start. >> John: Like where do I bite first? >> Yeah, and that's exactly what we're doing as part of a modern software factory, because this process involves cultural transformation. It's just not about tools. It's just not about technology. It's about how do you become iterative, right? Going from this year-long development process to being able to build something in two weeks, right? So that's why what we have done is to bring together a set of solutions that definitely includes our product but as a company, we have one of the largest agile coaches. So we essentially meet customers halfway in terms of handholding them, and doing everything that we can do to walk the journey with them step by step. The same thing we do in terms of providing customer the flexibility on how they want to navigate this journey. So for example, now we have both SASS as well as on-prem product. Some customers are ready to go all into cloud, other customers need time, and that's why we have adopted a very practical approach of maintaining a single code base. You can use our product in SASS, or we can deliver that product in a more private single-tenant mode, or we can give you the same code on-prem. And the whole goal is to walk the journey with you at the pace that you are comfortable. And I think of our partnership with Amazon, there is also of equally importance because customers now need to take their technology from Amazon, products from us, kind of marry it altogether and the more alliances, and the closer partnership that industry we can build, like we have with Amazon, the easier, it becomes an easier task for our customers. >> That's kind of how you characterize this show too, right? Collaborative, collegial, enabling. >> It's very collaborative, very collaborative, very energetic and very inspiring too. >> John: Alright, thanks for the time. >> Thank you so much, thank you. >> John: Thank you for being with us and good luck down the road. Thanks for being here on the Cube. >> My pleasure being here. >> We're back with more live coverage here from Reinvent. We're at AWS in Las Vegas and Stu and I will be back with more right after this. (ambient music)

>> Okay welcome back everyone to our special live presentation for cloud and IT analytics for the hybrid cloud. I'm John Furrier, your host. We just had an interview with Peter Burris, keynote presenter. Our second one-on-one conversation is with our second keynote, Sudip Datta is the Vice President of Product Manager for CA Technologies. Sudip, great to see you. Great keynote. >> Good to see you. Thank you. >> A lot of information on your keynote so folks can check it out online and on demand, but I wanted to ask you, you mentioned evolving infrastructure, so it's the first thing that you kind of set the table with. What do you mean by that? >> Sure. So first of all, as I mentioned in my keynote, the infrastructure today is intimately connected with business operations and the user experience, right? So how is the infrastructure evolving and catering to this ongoing demand of app economy? Before we get there, let's define what infrastructure means to CA, right? Infrastructure is servers, storage, network. Could be running on prem, could be running on public cloud, right? So let's look at what's happening on each layer, right. In the server layer, we are seeing bi-directional, somewhat antithetical movement, right? One on the consolidation side of things and the other on expansion to multiple clouds, right? On the consolidation side of things, of course there are re-amps and now we see more and more containers getting adopted like I was looking at a survey. The container growth between 2016 and 2017 is more than 40%. So we are also hearing about serverless compute, stateless compute, and so on and so forth. So that's on the server side of things, right? Storage, we are hearing about object storage. Network is getting more and more abstracted with software defined networking, right? Another survey portrayed that between 2014 and 2020, the SDN market is anticipated to grow at a CAGR of 53% and that's huge. Huge. So the infrastructure is evolving, getting more dynamic, getting more abstract, right? And therefore there are challenges to monitoring and management. >> And you're seeing growth in Kubernetes just to throw a cherry on top of that conversation because that's orchestrating the apps which require programmable infrastructure. >> Absolutely. >> I want to just make a comment, I was just talking with Peter Burris and I want to highlight one of your pieces of your keynote that you mentioned that there's four pillars of modern analytics and monitoring and Peter and I were talking about the digital business requirement for a modern infrastructure and I was kind of teasing it out, I want to see where he wanted to go with it, I kind of put him on the spot, but I was saying hey, data's been a department, analytics has kind of been a department, but now it's kind of holistic. He kind of slapped me around, said "no no, it's still going to be a department." Although technically right, I was trying to say there's a bigger picture. >> Sudip: Sure. >> This is kind of a mindset shift. People are are re-imagining their analytics as a strategic asset just like data's becoming a strategic asset. My question is, if you don't monitor it, how do you even understand it? So you need these four pillars, and they are policy based configuration that's dynamic, unified monitoring, contextual intelligence, and collaboration integration. With the trend of the true private cloud report, you're starting to see the shift in labor from non-differentiated to differentiated. And those kind of four pillars as kind of a breeding ground for innovation. Are they connecting, do you see that connecting into this new IT role? >> Absolutely. As you rightly pointed out, the non-differentiated labor is being replaced by automation, by machine learning, by scripts, whatever it is. It's whole-scale automation. So that itself lends to the fact that there is a different shade of labor which is the value-added labor. So how does labor create value? And that's related to the four pillars that we talked about. How to manage these dynamic environments and glean data out of these environments to provide valuable insights and intelligence. We talked about contextual intelligence. So when it comes to contextual intelligence, IT can be intimately involved with the business to provide the IT context to the business or the business context to the IT and vice versa and add value to the business. Giving a specific example... In prior times, IT used to be reactive. When business runs out of, runs a camping, they run out of capacity and they say we need to add servers and they're rolling a server and so on and so forth. Now, of course the automation side of server provisioning has been taken care of. There are a lot of APIs out there, there are Amazon cloud formations and all that, but you still need a policy that is going to proactively detect, perform a what-if analysis that if there is a 2x ramp in business, there is going to be corresponding pressure on infrastructure and act proactively. That way, I can get to be the friend of business. It's not really acting after the fact, but acting proactively. >> I was talking with Umar Kahn, one of your colleagues yesterday. We talked about cars. I love Teslas 'cause it's a great example of innovation and you got old cars and you got Teslas. Really we're seeing kind of a move in IT where modern looks like the Tesla of IT where things are just different but work much better. So I got to ask you a question, Tesla's a great cool car, there's a lot of hype and buzz around it, but it's still got to drive, right? It's still got to be great. So you mentioned faults, fault detection and machine learning in your presentation, but IT ops still needs to run. And you got IOT Edge that Peter pointed out that needs to be figured out. So you got to figure out these new things and you got to run stuff, so you need the fault detection with the machine but you still got to be cool. Like the Tesla of IT. How are you guys becoming the Tesla of IT? >> Absolutely. I will touch upon a few points. First of all, as I mentioned right at the beginning, that data is important but we focused on the three Vs of data, which is velocity, volume and variety. But there is also the veracity of data and CA has been in the business of monitoring, capturing this data from various systems. From mobiles to mainframes, right? For the last few decades, right? So we have the true data, we are collecting the data, and now we are building a data analytics platform on which the data will be ingested and we will give insights. So that's going to be a big differentiator. The other is, we have all the tools from application management to infrastructure management tools, net ops tools, and we are connecting all of them to cover the entire digital chain. The reason is important, and I will highlight only one particular aspect of it. Network, the most neglected compliment in the infrastructure-- >> And the most important. Everyone complains about the network the most. >> Most important. Even when a kid plays a video game, it's an app. Most of us tend to forget that it's an app and the most important element in that app is the network. And we are in the business of network management so we are not only server and storage and app, we are also tying network management into this overall analytics platform. And within network management, it's tacit management, flow management. These are all important things because today's world, if your network betrays on you, then your user experience-- >> So I got to ask you, the products are in the company. And this is kind of important because most people who think about monitoring analytics would have kind of a different view based on what they're instrumenting. You're kind of talking about network and apps. You're kind of looking at the big picture. Are you tying that together? >> Absolutely. >> Can you explain how? >> Absolutely. So CA has been a market leader in application performance management and in network management and in server and cloud management. So we are tying all this together, the whole digital chain, as I said we are ingesting all the data into an open standard space, open source-based analytics platform, and we are collating the data so you can see what are the networks elements that preceded before a server got choked? Or before the application became inaccessible? We can tie it all together, all the units together, and perform assisted create and root cause analysis. >> Well I wanted to put you on the spot today because we are live, so I got to ask you as the VP of Product Management, what's your favorite product? Do you have a favorite child? (laughing) >> I mean, all of them are my favorite. >> There it is! Of course you can't pick a favorite, everyone's watching. >> Yeah, so yeah. >> As a parent you can't pick a favorite child. They're all good in their own way, right? >> They're all kind of horses for courses. Really, they do fabulous things. At the same time, we don't want the proliferation of tools. We are trying to rationalize tools like the net ops, the cloud ops and application performance management and tie them all together into our analytics platform. You can say like the analytics is my favorite word today because that's the new kid on the block but as I said, all of them are very very important. >> Well I always say, whoever could be the Tesla for IT is going to win it all. So with that, serious question, as VP of Product Management, do want to ask a serious question around that. What's your North Star? When you talk to your product teams, they're specking out products, they're talking to customers, and the engineers are building it out. What is the North Star? What is the ethos of CA these days? 'Cause you guys are pushing the envelope while maintaining that install base of customers. What is the North Star? What is the ethos? What's the guiding principles for CA Technologies? >> Absolutely. Customers, customers and customers, right? And the reason being, and I will give you... Of course, the user experience matters, but there is also an empirical reason. We are a market leader in the MSP space, for example. MSP and and just the space, and not only do we care about our customers but the customers of our customers as well. MSPs like ONE-NET, and Bespin Global, that you see is monitoring tools for managing their customers. So our allegiance goes all the way to our customers and their customers. So that's a guiding principle. But at the same time, we try to innovate beyond what our customers have been asking for. That's where the intuitive integration between application performance management, infrastructure management, network management, comes. And we want to be absolutely a leader in this end-to-end management. >> We talk with our WebOn team all the time and Peter and I talk about with Dave Alante all the time about how important IT operations are going to be right now because all the market research shows, Peter mentioned it, private cloud, true private cloud, hybrid cloud, massive growth area. Lot of opportunities for ops to really deliver value because the dev-ops momentum, because of the things like containers and Kubernetes, the programmable infrastructure has to be there. So I got to ask you the question, from a customer standpoint, and folks watching. What's the most important thing that your customers need to know when they start to re-think the architecture and ultimately make that 10 to 20 year investment in this new modern IT operations with CA? >> Sure. The first thing is, and I will re-visit the four pillars, right? That the dynamic, discovery, policy-based management is very very important because discovery, a lot of times we neglect discovery because it's always there. But the thing is, that's the starting point. That's the cradle where the overall monitoring takes birth. So that's the first point. The second is bring everything into, if not a single but minimal panes of glass. Maybe net ops has a tool and cloud ops has a tool and of course you have a tool for applications performance management. So those are the building blocks of monitoring. And then, overlay it with contextual intelligence and analytics. As I said, we are ingesting all the data, not only from CA tools, but using open APIs from other tools into our analytics framework and provide contextual intelligence. And last but not the least, collaboration and integration. We are integrating with frameworks such as Slack to provide collaboration between dev ops and IT ops, between storage admins and server admins, and so on and so forth, right? So those are the building blocks. So if you are thinking about what you are going to do in 10 years timeframe, first of all, hybrid cloud is a reality. So for managing the overall, entire spectrum of hybrid cloud, you need a tool that's unified, that can do dynamic policy-based management, that can provide intelligence, and that can encourage collaboration. >> Sudip, thank you so much for sharing this one-on-one conversation. For the folks watching, there's a great slide that outlines that operational intelligence. It was a beautiful eye candy, it's like an architecture slide, I was geekin' out on it. Check it out on the keynote on the on demand. Sudip, thank you so much for sharing your insight here on the future of modern analytics and monitoring strategies. This is a special presentation. One-on-one drill-down with keynote presenter Sudip Datta who is the Vice President of Product Management, part of the cloud and IT analytics digital business. We'll be right back with more one-on-one interviews after this short break.

>> Announcer: Live from San Francisco, it's theCUBE, covering Red Hat Summit 2018, brought to you by Red Hat. >> Hello everyone, welcome back to theCUBE's exclusive coverage of Red Hat Summit 2018 in San Francisco, Moscone West. I'm John Furrier, my co-host John Troyer, and we are here with David Levine, Assistant General Counsel of Red Hat, we've got the lawyer in the house. Who's billing for this hour? >> Exactly. >> Welcome to theCUBE. >> Thank you, John, it's good to be here. >> So, obviously the legal challenges, putting GDPR aside, which I don't want to get on that rant, we're not going to talk about, is licenses. In open source, this has been an enabler but also an inhibitor for many in not knowing what license to use or what code is, licenses mean for them, their role in the community, all of this stuff could be a morass of gray area, or just no one's educated in some cases, right? So it's tough. >> And that's what I do. I mean my job is to help bring some order to what you describe as some morass, right. How do we help reassure especially enterprises that it's safe to go in the water, it's safe to use open source. Red Hat is an open source company, our entire business is built on open source, and that sort of has a couple aspects to it. One is on the development side, you know we collaborate in the development of software, but what really enables that are licenses, open source licenses. And much of Red Hat's software is built on top of a particular license, which is called the copyleft license. It's known as the GPL or the General Public License. And it's a great tool to foster collaboration, right? What copyleft means is if I create a piece of software under a copyleft license and I give this software to you, I give it to you with all my copyrights. So you have the right to copy it, to distribute it to John, to improve upon it, but the only requirement is if you give it to John, you have to give it to him with the same rights and you have to give him the source code, and if you improve upon it, you have to license the improvements to him under those same rights. So it's this whole virtuous circle, right? I create something, I give it to you, you're able to continue to improve on it, you redistribute it, and we all get to share... >> Furrier: So if I create value, do you get that back? >> If you decide to distribute it to me, you don't have to, >> OK. >> David: But if you distribute it to someone else, then you have to give it back with all those same rights. >> Furrier: So you're paying it forward, basically all the rights forward, >> Exactly. >> Furrier: A dose of good ethos. But then if I improve upon, I create a derivative work, whatever the legal jargon is, >> Right, right. >> Furrier: And I have, this is a magic secret sauce, ten percent of it is magic secret sauce, now I distribute that product, I pass along the license. >> David: Correct. >> Including my secret sauce. >> David: If you decide to, there's nothing that requires you to do it, so a lot of our customers sort of build their secret sauce internally, they keep it within their companies and it doesn't go out any further than that, and that's perfectly fine, but if you decide to distribute it, you have to continue to... >> What does that mean, >> Furrier: Distribute, distribute the software to a partner or the product itself? >> David: It could be both. >> So the product is sold publicly as a service, say a cloud service, and I've got some secret sauce. >> David: So if it's a service, it's a great question and it goes into legal issues, but generally speaking, if you're providing a service that's not a distribution, so I don't really have access to the software. >> Furrier: That's actually a really good thing for developers. >> Yeah. >> Well, it's an issue, we are now in a service-oriented world so that's a, we are, maybe that's one of the next things that we as a technology community and an IT industry have to deal with. Certainly, it seems though, David, before we get into the new news here and the specifics of the new development, but open source was scary... A generation or two ago. It seems like, at this point especially in cloud, it's the new normal. Is that as you, inside Red Hat, as you all look at your landscape, it doesn't seem like you have, do you have big Fortune 100 lawyers coming in and yelling at you now versus ten years ago? >> It's a great point. So I've been at Red Hat for 13 years now, so I've seen sort of tremendous change over the years, and when I started in 2005, we were having a lot of discussions with customers about the copyleft aspects of the GPL, you know, this requirement to give back, and there were companies that were concerned about this, but over time, they've become more sophisticated and they're realizing that, notwithstanding what their lawyers were telling them, it really wasn't that dangerous, and I have very few of those conversations today. Most people get it. >> Furrier: And also a lot's changed since that time, I mean right now I think people are seeing the benefits of projects being out in the open, where it's fostering great collaboration. And the productization piece can still exist >> Yeah. >> With that, so that dynamic between productization, AKA commercialization, and open source projects is interesting. So you could almost make the argument, it's easier to be compliant if you just make everything open source because, rather than just re-engineering any fixes, the community can do it for you. >> David: Absolutely. >> So this efficiency's already been proven. >> David: Absolutely. And you know, customers are concerned about compliance with all of the obligations under the open source licenses, and one of the things that I try to tell customers is if you take open source, you build it into a product, rather than spend a lot of time focusing on pulling out the obligations into a separate file, just make the source code available, republish it and you get to participate, you get to push your contributions upstream and so you a whole community that's supporting the contributions that you described. >> Furrier: Okay, so what's the big news here that GPL, version 2, okay, so first of all, what's the current situation? You guys made a quick tweak in this GPL 2-3 situation, what was the current situation, what was the motivation? Why the change? What's the impact? >> David: So I talked earlier about the GPL and the GPL has very exacting requirements. I mentioned that if you're going to distribute the software to John, you have to give him the source code, and you have to include a copy of the license. Understanding what is source code, what has to be, what has to accompany it, depending on how you're distributing the software, that's not always an easy question, and so companies don't always get it right. And one of the challenges with GPL, version 2 is that there is no grace period, and so if you miss something, if you make a mistake in the way that you've tried to meet your license obligations, your license is terminated and you're a copyright infringer, sort of, right at that point in time, and that scares a lot of our customers, it scares enterprises. They need more predictability, they want some level of fairness. >> This is the grace period you're talking about. >> David: Yeah, this the grace period. So, there's no grace period in version 2 of the General Public License. That problem was fixed when they came out ten years ago with version 3 of the GPL. So version 3 included this grace period in it, but the challenge is that a lot of code today remains GPL, version 2, so what do we do with that large existing code base? And so, the solution was to adopt the cure provision, or the grace provision from GPL, version 2, I'm sorry, version 3, for GPL, version 2 code. Stop me if I'm speaking too quickly or if I'm getting too technical. So the idea is >> Let's rewind just back 30 seconds. So, do a little playback. So, if we can apply GPL, v.3 to the v.2 code, >> So, the cure period. >> Oh, just the cure period. >> So I'm adopting >> David: the cure period. >> Got it. >> David: So, the license stays the same, the only difference is, I've said that if you fail to meet your obligation to John when you redistribute, I'm going to give you 30 days to fix the problem. >> Furrier: So essentially you grandfather in the v.2 with the grace period. >> We're giving this grace period. >> Troyer: And this is a corporate promise. This doesn't change the license, this is a corporate promise. >> So it's a promise >> David: by any copyright holder, so in my example to you, I'm the sole copyright holder here, but in the Linux kernel, there are thousands of copyright holders. So the Linux kernel developers back in October adopted this same approach, adopted the GPL v.3 cure period for the Linux kernel, which continues to be licensed under GPL, version 3. And then in December, Red Hat led a group of companies that included IBM, Google, Facebook, we all adopted it for our own copyrights. So, we together, those four companies own a lot of copyrights to open source code. And then again in March, six more companies joined us. SAP, Microsoft, Cisco, HPE, Soothsay, CA Technologies, and at the Red Hat Summit today, we're asking developers to do the same thing. We want to show that it's a movement, that we want to cooperate in enforcement, because we think ultimately if we want more people to join the open source ecosystem, we can do that by making enforcement more predictable. >> Furrier: And so what specifically are you asking startups? What's the ask for developers? >> For developers, if you go to, we have a site on GitHub, so it's the GPL Cooperation Commitment, so gplcc.github.io/gplcc. >> And what do they do, just take a guess? >> And you go there, and there's the statement, the same commitment that the company's made, and you go in and add your name to the bottom of the file and submit a pull request, like developers know how to do on GitHub, and your name will be added as a supporter. >> Into the record. >> David: It would apply to every new copier. >> That gives them the primary source (mumbles), or write... >> David: It gives anyone who takes that code, has that piece of mind. >> Furrier: Well, great stuff, great one-on-one on the GPL v.2, v.3 grace period, it's super cool you guys are doing that. It's just such a hassle, I'm sure the complaints have been crazy. The bigger question for me as I look at, cause I love that the innovation comes from open source, we're seeing that both on the collaborative side in the project, but also people are really productizing open source and its running everything. The question is, where do I have code that I, you know, people are programming like crazy, they're slinging code like it's nobody's business right now. So, I might be afraid I'd be liable if I'm an enterprise or a startup that, through venture capital or an M&A process where something's going on, wait a minute, we can't actually sell this because that's his code over there. You didn't comply with the license, so there's always these tripwires in the mind, and sometimes that's just fear, this is a general kind of license hygiene practice. What's your take on that? What's your advice to entrepreneurs, to enterprise developers, to be safe? What should they do as their approach? >> David: That's a great question. I mean, what you want to know is where's my code coming from? And you have, it's a license issue, but it's also a product security issue. If you're taking something from someone, they took it from two places down the food chain, what's the provenance of that code? So, just like from a security perspective... >> Furrier: I've seen M&As go south because of this. >> Yes, so you want to know the source of your code, get it from a trusted source. Make sure that you understand what the license terms are. One of the things that we're trying to encourage developers to do is make sure you attach a license to it, because if you don't, a user or startup's not going to know what rights they have. And that can become problematic if they have a liquidity fight. >> Furrier: Okay, so here's my next question. So, the next question is obviously open source is growing and people are joining projects and/or creating projects. So this is a hypothetical: I have a project and I want to donate to CUBE code, to the open source CUBE community. Do I just ship the code, do I have to pick the license, what's the best license? And then I want to also have in the mind that I might use Linux and other things, so I have code I've written, proprietary code I want to open it up, I've got to pick a license, like, do I just go like that and pick the license out of the hat, or... >> Lots of times, it's sort of dictated for you. So it depends on the ecosystem that you're working with. I mean, if you're working in the Linux kernel ecosystem, generally it's going to be GPL, version 2. So you have to look at what other projects you're working with, is this part of a particular project that already has an existing license? And then it's a philosophical point. I mentioned before, the GPL is a copyleft license. It forces sharing, right, so it protects John's rights downstream from you, but there are other licenses that are permissive and give you lots of rights, but you could decide what you want to do with it downstream. So if you're okay with people taking your code downstream from you and making it proprietary, then using a permissive license is fine. But if you want to ensure this virtuous circle, then you want to pick a copyleft license. >> Troyer: Paul, do you think we have reached the end stage of open source licenses here? Are you, you know, GPL v.3 is ten years old, and after we started from MIT and Apache, and I could probably list a couple of others and I haven't even been paying attention, so, are we settled down, are we about done? Are you looking for things? >> David: That's a great question. So I was at a conference two weeks ago in Barcelona put on by the Free Software Foundation in Europe, and one of the conference sessions was The Future of Copyleft. You know, is there going to be another copyleft license? Do we need GPL, version 4? It's, you look at what the GPL has done and how many projects are governed by it, and how it's forced this collaboration, it's done amazing things, but it's pretty complicated. So is there a simpler way of accomplishing the same objectives? But I don't know that people have the stomach... >> Furrier: And the answer is? >> Uh, (laughing). I'll come back next year and let you know what I learn... >> Were you worried about, and now I'm going to ask, have to ask this, ask me how you can support open source licensing, so I'll ask you: how can you and me support open source licensing? >> David: So, take the GPL v.3 Cure Commitment, commit your name to supporting greater stability and predictability and fairness in the way enforcement takes place. So, I mean it's an exciting project. It's kind of fun to pull the whole community together. >> It's quite an accomplishment, too if you think about open source principles are now, again, we don't want to skew other events, but okay, this beginning of another generation of open source greatness certainly, remember the glory days when there was a Tier 2 citizen in the enterprise, you guys made it Tier 1 but now it's going to a whole other level with Cloud-Native, and you're seeing open source ethos being applied to other markets, not just software development. So, you're starting to see the success create this circle of innovation. Have you guys had the "pinch me" moments inside Red Hat, saying, "hey, this is actually working, and really well"? >> David: I think just a couple touchpoints, I mean, I think, look at where Microsoft has come, right? When I joined Red Hat, that wasn't a friendly relationship, but now they've embraced it. Who would have thought 15 years ago that we'd see Microsoft on board and we have. And your point about where else is open source going; one of my colleagues spoke about a year ago to seed developers who were interested in open sourcing seeds, because there was concern about seeds becoming patented and not being able to grow food. And so, thinking about ways to open up the market in seeds. >> Productization is a great thing. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> On the legal front, what's on the horizon? Any hurdles you see, opportunities, challenges that your guys are working on? Obviously, there's always the legal framework, we just commented before you came on with Chris Wright about Blockchain and some of the tokenization around content, we might even see a token economics model in software down the road. So, a lot of interesting legal things happening to rights if you open them up. What's your thoughts on the future? >> So, one of the areas that we're focused on, as is Red Hat, is containers. So what does it mean if you put open source software layers in a container? What does it mean if there are proprietary layers in there? Does it mean if you add, if you take my open source software, add a proprietary component, package it in a container and give that container to John, what does it mean for your proprietary layer? Is that, does that have to be licensed under the GPL? And so we spent a lot of time thinking about that a number of years ago and luckily concluded that it may improve the situation as opposed to adding any concerns, so we're thinking about the impact of open source licensing and containers, ensuring, again to your point earlier, what's the provenance of the code? There's so much code now available, making sure that there is a license associated with it. >> It's almost, you just declare all code free. (all laughing) >> Absolutely. >> Well certainly a lot of new things you're seeing, societal change is impacted, you've got self-driving cars and all kinds of new things that are just mind-blowing on a legal framework standpoint. First-time challenges, so you're busy, you're always going to have an interesting job. >> I really think that I have the best job in Red Hat, because I get to think about these things. What does it mean from a licensing perspective? What are the new issues that we're going to face as the technology evolves, the market evolves? And... >> Furrier: Super important, I mean there's tripwires in there, and again, if you don't think about it probably, I know or I've seen from experience, great companies lose big-time acquisition opportunities because of some faulty code on a license, and it's just killed things, and I've seen enterprises get (laughing). I mean, little weird things could happen, you've just got to be on top of it. >> David: I mean, look at what Tesla did in open sourcing their patents, making their patented technology available so that, to help the whole autonomous car industry. We've been doing a lot of work in the patent area as well to ensure that patents don't become an inhibitor to the change that you've described. >> Furrier: It's a great conversation, provocative, legal and open source software. These are competitive advantages and opportunities, not challenges and compliance, old-school guarded secrets. Open it up and good things happen. David, thanks for coming on theCUBE. Thanks for sharing the insights on the legal perspectives of licenses as open source software continues to power the globe on a global basis, the global economy, and the technology innovation coming. It's theCUBE, bringing you all the live action here in San Francisco. We'll be right back with more after this short break. (upbeat music) (inspirational music)

>> Welcome back, everyone. We we are here live in our Palo Alto studios with theCUBE. I'm John Furrier, the host of today's special digital event, hybrid, cloud and IT analytics for digital business. This is our one-on-one segment with Umair Khan, principal product marketing manager at CA Technologies. Where we get to do a drill-down. He's got a special product, UIM. We're going to talk about unified management. Umair, great to see you. Nice shirt, looking good, same as mine. I got the cuff links. >> I know, we think alike and have the same shirt. >> Got the cloud cufflinks. >> You got to get me one of those. (laughs) >> Good to see you. >> Good to see you. >> Hey, I want to just drill down. We had the two keynote presenters, Peter Burris, we'll keep on the research perspective and then kind of, where you guys tie in with your VP of Product Management, Sudip Datta, and interesting connection. Peter laid out the future of digital business, matches perfectly with the story of CA, so interesting. More importantly, it's got to be easy, though. How are you guys doing? I want to drill down to your product, UIM. Unified management, what is that? Unified infrastructure management. What's making it so easy? So, like you said, it's unified infrastructure management. It's a single product to monitor your cloud, your on-prem, your traditional and your entire stack, be it compute layer, storage layer, application services layer. It's a single product to monitor it all, so a) you get a single view to resolve problems, and at the back end, people tend to underestimate the time it takes to configure different tools, right? Imagine a different tool for cloud, different tool for public cloud too that you use, I'm not going to name vendors. Traditional environment you have, or maybe one silo group is using hybrid infrastructure, right? So configuring those, managing those, it's tough. And having a single console to deploy monitoring configuration in the same time monitor that infrastructure makes it easy. >> You and I were talking yesterday, before we came here and were doing a dry run, about cars. >> Yeah. >> And we were talking about the Tesla is so cool compared to an older car, but it's got everything in there. It's got analytics, it's got data, but it's a car. The whole purpose is to drive. It has nothing to do with IT, yet it's got a ton of IT analytics in it. How is business related to that? Because you could almost say that the single pane of glass is analytics. It's almost like Tesla for the business. The business is the car. How do you view that, because you have an interesting perspective. I want to get your take on that. >> Absolutely. So I've seen a lot of people giving examples as well, but I think cars of today is a great example of how monitoring should be, right? Cars, yes, it's still about the look and feel and the brand, but when you're sitting in the car now you expect a unified view. You want blind spot detector, you want collision detector, everything there. Even your fuel gauge, it shouldn't tell you how much is left, it should tell you how much mileage is left, right? Everything is becoming more intelligent. And you know Peter talked about the importance of expedience in the digital business, so IT team needs that visibility, that end-to-end unified view, just like in a modern car, to avoid any blind spots and resolve issues faster, and at the same time, it has to be more proactive and predictive in nature. So that collision detection, all the car companies these days have a commercial on safety features, collision detection, and same with IT. They need to have that ability to use intelligent monitoring tools to be able to resolve issues before the customer experience suffers. And one of our customers says, if someone opened a service desk ticket, that means everyone knows about the issue. I need to be resolving that issue before the service desk ticket is issued, right? >> You don't see Tesla opening up issues, "Hey, you're on the freeway, slow down." But this is important. I mean, Tesla was disruptive because they didn't just build a car and say "bolt on analytics." They took holistic, proactive view of the car experience with technology and analytics in mind to bring that tech to the table. That's similar to the message that we heard from Peter and Sudip about analytics. It's not just a thing you bolt on anymore. You got to think about the outcome of what you're trying to do. >> Exactly. >> That really is the key. And how does that unified infrastructure management do that? >> So it's all about unifying all different, today's digital businesses are adopting a lot of technologies. Every developer has their own stacks. As an IT ops person, you don't want to be someone who says, "you cannot adopt this cloud" or, "you do not adopt this technology." You should be flexible enough to whatever stack they have. You should be able to monitor that infrastructure for them, get yourself a unified view to resolve issues faster. But at the same time, provide your dev teams the flexibility of choosing the stack they like. >> A lot of IT ops guys are impacted and energized, quite frankly, by the future that's upon us with all these opportunities, but the realities of having uptime is a for opsis key and also enabling new (mutters) like IOT. The question for you is, who is most impacted in the enterprise organization or in IT operations, by your modern analytics products and visions? >> So I think there are two groups, right? One is the traditional VP of IT infrastructure, IT operations, so he has a lot of concerns about his infrastructure is becoming more and more dynamic, more complex, clouds are being adopted, businesses talking about expedience, right? So he needs a modern approach to get that end-to-end picture and make sure there are no blame games happening between different groups, and resolve issues really proactively. And at the same time, his tool and his analytics approach need to support modern infrastructures, right? If businesses wants to adopt cloud-based technologies, he needs to be, or she needs to be, able to provide that monitoring, needs to cover that approach as well. >> Is there one that pops out that you see growing faster in terms of the persona within IT? Because we hear Sudip talk about network, which we all want the network to go faster. I mean, you can't go to to Levi's Stadium or any kind of place and people complain about wifi. My kids are like, "Dad, the network's too slow." But in IT, network's critical. But only up to the app, so it's a bigger picture than that. Is there one persona that's rising up that you see that really hones in on this message of this holistic view of looking at modern analytics? >> I think rules are changing overall in IT, right? The system admin is becoming cloud admin, or the dev ops guy, so I think it's getting more and more collaborative. Roles will be redefined, reengineered a bit to meet the needs of modern technologies, modern companies, and so on. And we're also seeing the rise of a site reliability engineer, right? Because he's more concerned about reliability versus individual component. To him an app might be bad because of the network, because of the application itself, or the infrastructure that runs it. >> Okay, what does the UIM stand for and how does that impact in the overall stack? >> So UIM is our unified, as I mentioned before, unified infrastructure management product that's the most comprehensive solution on the market. If you look at technology support from your public-private cloud-based infrastructures like Amazon, Azure, or your hyperconverge. You can also call them private cloud, like mechanics, and being variable stack, or your traditional IT as well, from your (mutters) environments or from your Cisco environments, Cisco UCS, or anything. So it really gives that comprehensive solution set, and at the same time it provides an open architecture if you wanted to monitor some technology that we don't provide support for, it allows you to monitor that. And again, because of that, people are able to resolve issues faster, they're able to improve mean time to repair, and at the same time, I'll reemphasize the configuration part, right? Imagine you have multiple tools for each silos, then you need to configure that. In a dev ops world, you have to release applications faster, but you cannot deploy an application without configuring the monitoring for it, right? But if the infrastructure monitoring guys are taking three or four days to configure monitoring, then the entire concept of dev ops falls apart. So that's where UIM helps too. It really helps ops deploy configurations a lot faster through out-of-the-box templates in a unified approach across hybrid stacks. >> And developers want infrastructure as code, that's clear as day, and now they want great analytics. Okay, so I got to ask you the use case. I got to drill down on use cases, specifically, for the folks watching, whether they're maybe a CA customer in the past or one now, or not yet a customer. Where are you winning? Where is CA actually winning right now? How would talk about the specific use cases where it's a perfect fit and where you've got beachhead and where you can go. >> No, I think the places we typically win really well is as companies become more hybrid, if they're starting up in cloud-based infrastructures, they all of a sudden realize that the monitoring approach for traditional infrastructure is really not for cloud. The more technology that (mutters), you started with cloud and you want to adopt containers, and you start adding these monitoring tools. All of a sudden you realize this approach cannot work. I'm creating more silos, I don't the internal visibility and these infrastructures are more dynamic, going up and down all the time. I need a modern tool, modern approach. So typically, when you have hybrid infrastructures, we typically win there. And I think of a large insurance company as well, where initially we started working with them, and initially they had a lot of different tools that they worked on-- >> I think we actually have a slide for this. Can you pull that up on the thing here, the slide. Before you get to the insurance company, I want to get the graphic up. There it is. So we had the global 500 company, go ahead, continue. >> So basically worked with a global 500 insurance company. They had the same kind of issue, right? A lot of different technologies being adopted, cloud being adopted by a lot of the application team, and they wanted to really scale the business, digitize the business, but they didn't want the monitoring to get in the way. Right, so they implemented UIM, and they significantly improved mean time to repair and the time they spent in monitoring tools, right? That's the biggest thing. IT while monitoring may sound cool, but it's, the IT wants to work in modern innovative stuff. They want to stare at a screen, spending time and creating scripts and monitoring. So it really gave them the ability to get you the single tool to monitor increasingly complex and hybrid infrastructure. >> So you guys also ran a survey, also validated by Tech Validate, which is a third party firm which surveys top IT folks, on the three important ITOA, IT analytics solutions, correlation of data across apps, infrastructure, and network, 78%. Full stack visibility with in-context log monitoring and analysis, 65%. Ability to scale in high volume environments. So interesting how those are the top three. Kind of speaks to the conversation Peter Burris and I had. Lot of data (laughs), okay, multiple stack issues, so you're talking about a holistic view. What's the importance of these top three trends? >> I think a lot of companies miss out when they only monitor a silo, right? Even when I talk about our unified product, it's unified infrastructure. Even within infrastructure, there's so many components. You have to unify them, and that's the UIM work. But as Sudip mentioned, we have one of the biggest portfolio in the market. We're not only good at unified infrastructure, but also the network that connects that infrastructure to the application, and the application itself, right? The mobile application, the user experience of it, and the code-level visibility that you need. So as the survey mentioned, one of the biggest issues that companies have is they want to aggregate this data from app, network, and infrastructure. And at CA we are uniquely positioned because we have products in all three areas. I think typically no vendor covers all three areas and we're tying these together with more contextual analytics, which includes log which we released a while back, and I love to give the example of logs as well, right? People even monitor logs in a silo. But the value of using log together with performance is performance tells you a system is slow, okay, but logs tell you why. So it's using context together with your performance across app, infra, and network, really helps you solve these problems. >> Well, the Internet of Things and the car example we use also takes advantage of potential log data because data exhaust could be sitting around, but with realtime it could be very relevant. Okay, so let's move on to some of the kudos you're getting. Customers recognize CA as a leader in ITOA, IT analytics, operational analytics. 82% of organizations agree with the following, little thumb-up there. "CA has the breadth and depth of monitoring expertise to deliver the cross-correlation of IT operation analytics data from app to infrastructure to network. I buy the vision. I'm going to challenge you on this. What's the most important thing you got that this survey says? Because that's a huge number. Some might challenge that number. So I'm going to challenge that. Why is that number so important, and describe how it's reached. >> So I think it's some of our customers that have bought the belief of this, right, because we have in the portfolio an application performance like I mentioned, infrastructure performance with UIM, our net ops product portfolio, we are the only vendor in the market with that holistic set of products and experience in all three areas. So that really positions us uniquely. If you pick up any vendor out there, they either started on the app side, just started going on the infrastructure side, or they're a pure network player, starting to go infra and trying to get into app. But we are the vendor that has all three, and now we are bringing all of these three areas together through our operation intelligence platform that Sudip mentioned. >> Okay, so go to the next slide here. This one here is kind of chopped down, so move to the next one, you can come to that, look at that, later. This is the one I want to talk about, because retail is huge. We cover retail as a retail analyst firm, but retail does have a lot of edge components to it. It's heavily data-driven, evolving realtime from wearables to whatever. I mean, it's just going crazy. So it's turbulent from a change standpoint, but it's heavily IT operations driven. Why is this important? It says "Global 500 retail company was spending too much time in issue resolution. They lacked end-to-end visibility across cloud, traditional, and applications. After implementing CA UIM, they improved their mean time to repair by 35-50%. I'll translate that. Basically, it's broken, they got to repair it. Things aren't working. Retail can't be down. Why did you guys provide this kind of performance? Give a specific example of how this all plays out. >> So actually this tech firm named the customer, but in a typical scenario in retail, everyone is getting these mobile apps, right? So you need to monitor performance of the mobile app, the application running on it, we have tools for that, and the infrastructure behind it. So typically these mobile apps are on the cloud, right? IT ops have a traditional infrastructure, but this is Amazon-based or Azure-based. They come to us, we are adopting these mobile applications, but at the same time, we don't want to set up a separate IT ops team for these mobile applications as well. So retail organizations are proactively implementing an analytics-based approach for their unified end-to-end view. So even though the mobile app might be siloed, but it's multi-channel in retail, right? So they might order from their application but they might pick up in the store, and the store might be running on a physical Windows machine, versus some cloud-based boss. >> So you're saying they get to the cloud real fast, then realize, "oh, damn, I got to fix this. "I need analytics." So either way the customer use case is they can work with you on the front end to design that reimagined infrastructure, or bring you in at the right time. >> And our monitoring tool helps that, gives that end-to-end view, right, from the user's genie all the way from logging in, to all the way to the transaction being updated on the inventory software, being updated on the store, all the back-end SOP system. So we monitor all these technologies, give them end-to-end views. And we give them proactive (mutters). That's what analytics is, right? If their experience is slow, again, a user shouldn't be telling them on social media, "I can't order this," right? That IT team should be proactively testing, proactively-- >> Agility, speed and agility. >> Right, and without a unified view, it's not possible. >> All right, I'm at a bottom line here for you, and get your personal perspective. Take your CA hat off and your personal industry tech hat on. What should IT guys, what should they think of when working with CA? Why is CA good for them, and why should they look at you, and why should they continue to use you if they're an existing customer? >> So I think CA, like I said before, they're experienced in this space, right? And the investment we are making in analytics and cloud, we have a large customer base, so pretty much every customer, every enterprise, every industry you name, we have a customer there. And we have a huge portfolio already. So we have the basis from application to network to infrastructure, and are building this analytics layer that our customers have been asking us, that you're one of the rare vendors that have the most depth of information already available, right? So if aggregating that into an operational intelligence platform really helps puts us in a unique position by giving them the broadest set of data through a single platform. Right, and our experience for 30 years in monitoring, like Peter mentioned as well, and the investment we are bringing in cloud, UIM is a example. We were recently applauded by industry analysts as well that it's one of the best tools for single pane of glass for hybrid cloud environments. That shows how heavily we are investing in new, modern infrastructures like Amazon and Azure and even Utanics, right? >> Well, certainly you've got a lot of props. We just shared some of those stats and from independent firms like Tech Validate. But more, I think, impressive is that Peter Burroughs is on the cutting edge of digital business. You guys are aligned really with some of the cutting-edge research, where we see the market going, so congratulations. This digital event's been great. I want to ask you one final question. We see you guys out a lot at all the events we go to with TheCUBE, we go to all the cloud events. So you guys are going to be going to all the cloud events this year. So is that how customers can get ahold of you in the field? Which events will you be at? Where should they look for CA out in the field? >> So I think we're pretty much everywhere, on all the key events that you mentioned. Amazon Reinvent and C-World is coming as well. Customers should come to us and see how CA is helping people better manage the modern software factory, what we call it, every customer is in a digital economy, is trying to build software to deliver unique experiences, and at CA we talked about our IT operations, from dev to test to ops, we provide all the solutions. So C-World, Amazon Reinvent, you know, come find us there, or online at ca.com as well. >> All right, Umair, thanks for coming here and sharing your thoughts as part of our one-on-one drill downs from the digital event here at Silicon Angle Media's Cube Studios in Palo Alto, where we discuss the cloud and IT analytics for digital business, sponsored by CA Technologies. I'm John Furrier. I've been the host and moderator for today. I want to thank Peter Burris, head of research at wikibon.com for the opening keynote and Sudip Datta, who's the vice president of product management for CA for the second keynote. And all the conversation will be online, and thanks for watching, everyone. And check out CA. We'll see you at all the different cloud events with TheCUBE, thanks for watching.

>> Good morning, everyone. My name is Sudip Datta. I head up product management for Infrastructure Management and Analytics at CA Technologies. Today I am going to talk about the key pillars for modern analytics and monitoring for hybrid cloud. So before we get started, let's set the context. Let's take a stock of where we are today. Today in terms of digital business, software is driving business. Software is the backbone, is the driving force for most of the business services. Whether you are a financial institution or a hospitality service or a health care service or even a restaurant service pizza, you are front-ended by software. And therefore the user experience is of paramount importance. Just to give you some factoids. Eighty-three percent of U.S. consumers say that the brand that, the frontal software portal is more important than the product itself. And the companies are reciprocating by putting a lot of emphasis on user experience, as you see in the second factoid. The third factoid, it's even more interesting that 53% of the users of a mobile app actually abandon the app if the app doesn't load within a specified time. So we all understand now the importance of user experience in today's business. So what's happening to the infrastructure underneath that's hosting these applications? The infrastructure itself is evolving, right? How? First of all, as we all know there is a huge movement, a huge shift towards cloud. Customers are adopting cloud for reasons of economy, agility and efficiency. And whether you are running on cloud or on prem, the architecture itself is getting more and more dynamic. On the server side we hear about server-less computing. More and more enterprises are adopting containers, could be Dockers or other containers. And on the networking side we see an adoption of software-defined networking. The logical overlay on top of the physical underlay is abstracting the network. While we see a huge shift, a movement towards cloud, it is also true that customers are also retaining some of their assets on prem, and that's why we talk about hybrid cloud. Hybrid cloud is a reality, and it's going to be a reality for the foreseeable future. Take for example a bank that has its systems of engagement on public cloud, and systems of records on prem deeply nested within their DNC. So the transaction, the end-to-end transaction has to traverse multiple clouds. Similarly we talk to customers who run their production tier one application on prem, while tier two and tier three desktop applications run on public cloud. So that's the reality. Multi-cloud dynamic environment is a reality of today. While that's a reality, they pose a serious challenge for IT operations. What are the challenges? Because of multiple clouds, because of assets spanning multiple data centers, multiple clouds, there are blind spots getting created. IT ops is often blindsided on things that are happening on the other side of the firewall. And as a result what's happening is they're late to react, and often they react to problems much later than their customers find it, and that's an embarrassment. The other thing that's happening is because of the dynamic nature of the cloud, things are ephemeral, things are dynamic, things come and go, assets come and go, IT ops is often in the business of keeping pace with these changes. They are reacting to these changes. They are trying to keep pace with these changes, and silo'd tools are not the way to go. They are trying to keep up with these changes, but they are failing in doing so. And as a result we see poor user experience, low productivity, capacity problems and delayed time to market. Now what's the solution? What is the solution to all these problems? So what we are recommending is a four-pronged solution, what we represent as four pillars. The first pillar is about dynamic policy-based configuration and discovery. The second one is unification of the monitoring and analytics. The third one is contextual intelligence, and the fourth one is integration and collaboration. Let's go through them one by one. First of all, in terms of dynamic policy-based configuration, why is it important? I was talking to a VP of IT last week, and he commented that the time to deploy the monitoring for an application is longer than the time to deploy the application itself, and that's a shame. That's a real shame because in today's world application needs to be monitored straight out of the box. This is compounded by the fact that once you deploy the application, the application today is dynamic, as I said, the cloud assets are dynamic. The topology changes, and monitoring tools need to keep pace with that changing topology. So we need automated discovery. We need API driven discovery, and we need policy-based monitoring for large scale standardization. And last but not the least, the policies need to be based on dynamic baselines. The age, the era of static thresholds is long over because static thresholds lead to false alerts, resulting in higher opics for IT, and IT personnel absolutely, absolutely want to move away from it. Unified monitoring and analytics. This morning I stumbled upon a Lincoln white paper which said 20 tools you need for your hybrid monitoring, and I was absolutely dumbfounded. Twenty tools? I mean, that's a conversation non-starter. So how do we rationalize the tools, minimize the silos, and bring them under single pane of glass, or at least minimal panes for glass for monitoring? So IT admins can have a coherent view of servers, storage, network and applications through a single pane of glass? And why is that important? It's important because it results in lesser blame game. Because of silo'd tools what happens is admins are often fighting with each other, blaming each other. Server admins think that it's a storage problem. The storage admin thinks it's a database problem, and they are pointing to each other, right? So the tools, the management tools should be a point of collaboration, not a point of contention. Talking about blame game, one area that often gets ignored is the area of fault management and monitoring. Why is it important? And I will give a specific example. Let's say you have 100 VMs, and all those VMs become unreachable as a result of router being down. The root cause of the problem therefore are not the VMs, but the router. So instead of generating 101 alarms, the management tool needs to be smart enough to generate one single alarm. And that's why fault management and root cause analysis is of paramount importance. It suppresses unnecessary noise and results in lesser blaming. Contextual intelligence. Now when we talk about the cloud administrator, the cloud admin, the cloud admin in the past were living in the cocoon of their hybrid infrastructure. They were managing the hybrid infrastructure, but in today's world to have an end-to-end visibility of the digital chain, they need to integrate with application performance management tools, APM, as well as what lies underneath, which is the network, so that they have an end-to-end visibility of what's happening in the whole digital chain. But that's not all. They also need what we call is the context of the application. I will give you a specific example. For example, if the server runs out of memory when a lot of end users log into the system, or run out of capacity when a particular marketing promotion is running, then the context really is the business that leads to a saturation in IT. So what you need is to capture all the data, whether they come from logs, whether they come from alarms, capacity events as well as business events, into a single analytics platform and perform analytics on top of it. And then augment it with machine learning and pattern recognition capabilities so that it will not only perform root cause analysis for what happened in the past, but you're also able to anticipate, predict and prevent future problems. The fourth pillar is collaboration and integration. IT ops in today's world doesn't and shouldn't run in a silo. IT ops need to interact with dev ops. Within dev ops developers need to interact with QA. Storage admins need to collaborate with server admins, database admins and various other admins. So the tools need to encourage and provide a platform for collaboration. Similarly IT tools, IT management tools should not run standalone. They need to integrate with other tools. For example, if you want monitoring straight out of the box, the monitoring needs to integrate with provisioning processes. The monitoring downstream needs to integrate with ticketing systems. So integration with other tools, whether third party or custom developed, whatever it is, it's very, very important. Having said that, having laid what the solution should be, what the prescription should be, how is CA Technologies gearing up for it? In CA we have the industry's most comprehensive, the richest portfolio of infrastructure management tools, which is capable of managing all forms of infrastructure, traditional, private cloud, public cloud. Just to give you an example, in private cloud we support the traditional VMs as well as hyper converged infrastructure like Nutanix. We support Docker and other forms of containers. In public cloud we support the monitoring of infrastructure as a service, platform as a service, software as a service. We support all the popular clouds, AWS, Azure, Office 365 on Azure, as well as Salesforce.com. In terms of network, out net ops tools manage the latest and greatest SDN and SD-WAN, the VMware SDN, the open stack SDN, in terms of SD-WAN Cisco, Viptella. If you are a hybrid cloud customer, then you are no longer blindsided on things that are happening on the cloud side because we integrate with tools like Ixia. And once we monitor all these tools, we provide value on top of it. First of all, we monitor not only performance, but also packet, flow, all the net ops attributes. Then on top of that we provide predictive insights and learning. And because of our presence in the application performance management space, we integrate with APM to provide application to infrastructure correlation. Finally our monitoring is integrally linked with our operational intelligence platform. So in CA we have an operational intelligence platform built around CA Jarvis technology, which is based on open source technology, Elastic Logstash and Kibana, supplemented by Hadoop and Spark. And what we are doing is we are ingesting data from our monitoring tools into this data lake to provide value added insights and intelligence. When we talk about big data we talk about the three Vs, the variety, the volume and the velocity of data. But there is a fourth V that we often ignore. That's the veracity of the data, the truthfulness of data. CA being a leader in monitoring space, we have been in the business of collecting and monitoring data for ages, and what we are doing is we are ingesting these data into the platform and provided value added analytics on top of it. If you can read the slide, it's also an open framework we have the APIs from for ingesting data from third-party sources as well. For example, if you have your business data, your business sentiment data, and if you want to correlate that with IT metrics, how your IT is keeping up with your business cycles, you can do that as well. Now some of the applications that we are building, and this product is in beta as you see, are correlation between the various events, IT events and business events, network events and server events. Contextual log analytics. The operative word is contextual. There are a plethora of tools in the market that perform log analytics, but log analytics in the context of a problem when you really need it is of paramount importance. Predictive capacity analytics. Again, capacity analytics is not only about trending, right? It's about what if analysis. What will happen to your infrastructure? Or can your infrastructure sustain the pressure if your business grows by 2X, for example? That kind of what if analysis we should be able to do. And finally machine learning, we are working on it. Out of box machine learning algorithm to make sure that problems are not only corrected after the fact, but we can predict problems. We can prevent the problems in future. So for those who may be listening to this might be wondering where do we start? If you are already a CA customer, you are familiar with CA tools, but if you're not, what's the starting point? So I would recommend the starting point is CA Unified Infrastructure Manager, which is the market leading tool for hybrid cloud management. And it's not a hollow claim that we are making, right? It has been testified, it has been blessed by customers and analysts alike. And you can see it was voted the cloud monitoring software of the year 2016 by a third party. And here are some of the customer experiences. NMSP, they were able to achieve 15% productivity improvement as a result of adopting UIM. A healthcare provider, their meantime to repair, MTTR, went down by 40% as a result of UIM. And a telecom provider, they had a faster adoption to cloud as a result of UIM, the reason being UIM gave them for the first time a single pane of glass to manage their on prem and cloud environments, which has been a detriment for them for adopting cloud. And once they were able to achieve that, they were able to switch onto cloud much, much faster. Finally, the infrastructure management capabilities that I talked about is now being delivered as a turnkey solution, as a SAS solution, which we call digital experience insights. And I strongly, strongly encourage you to try UIM via CA digital experience insights, and here is the URL. You can go and sign up for the trial. With that, thank you.

>> Hey, welcome back everyone. We're here live in the Palo Alto Cube studios for our special digital live event sponsored by CA Technologies. I'm here with Peter Burris, Head of Research Wikibon.com, General Manager of Research for SiliconANGLE Media. Peter, you gave the Keynote this morning along with Sudip Datta talking about analytics. Interesting connection. Dave has been around for a while but now it's more instrumental. CA's had analytics, and monitoring for a while, now it's more instrumental. That seems to be the theme we're seeing here with the research that you're representing and your insight around digital business. Some of the leading research on the topic. Your thoughts on how they connect, what should users know about the connection between data and business, CA analytics and data? >> I think two things, John, first off as I kind of mentioned number one is that more devices are going to be more instrumental to the flow of, to the information flow to the data flows are going to create business value, and that's going to increase the need for greater visibility into how each of these things work together individually, but increasingly it's not just about having individual devices or individual things up and running or having visibility into them. You have to understand how they end up interacting with each other and so the whole modern anthropology becomes more important. We need to start finding ways of improving the capability of monitoring while at the same time simplifying it is the only way that we're going to achieve the goal of these increasingly complex infrastructures that nonetheless consistently deliver the business value that the business requires and customers expect. >> It's been interesting, monitoring has been around for awhile, you can monitor this, you can monitor that, you can kind of bring it all together in a database, but as we move to the cloud and you're seeing internet or things as you pointed out, there's a real connection here and the point that I wanted to talk about is, you mentioned the internet as a computer. Okay, which involves, system software kind of thinking, Let's tease that out. I want to unpack that concept because if the internet now is the platform that everyone will be basing and reimagining their business around, how do companies need to figure this out because this is on everyone's mind because it might miss the fact that it costs a hell of a lot of cash just to move stuff from the edge to the cloud or even just architectural strategies. What's that importance of the internet as a computer? >> Well, the notion of internet scale computing has been around for quite sometime. And the folks who take that kind of systems approach to things, may of them are sitting within 50 miles of where we sit right here. In fact, most of them. So, Google looks at the internet as a computer, that it can process. Facebook sees things the same way. So, if you look at some of these big companies that are actually thinking about internet scale computing, any service, any data, anytime, anywhere, then that thinking has started to permeate, certainly Silicon Valley. And in my conversations with CIO's, they increasingly want to think the same way. What is it, what, how do I have to think about my business relative to all of the available resources that are out there so I can have my company think about gaining access to a service wherever it might be. Gaining access to data that would be relevant to my company, wherever it might be. Appropriately moving the data, minimizing the amount of data that I have to move. Moving the events to the data when necessary. So, the, this is, in many respects the architectural question in IT today. How do we think about the way we weave together all these possible resources, possible combinations into something that sustains, sustainably delivers business value in a coherent manageable, predictable way? >> It's interesting, you and I have both seen many waves of innovation going back to the mini computer mainframe days and there used to be departments called data processing and this would be departments that handle analytics and monitoring. But now we're in a new era, a modern era where everything can be instrumented which elevates the notion of a department into a holistic perspective. You brought this up in your talk during the Keynote where it said data has to permeate throughout the organization whether it's IOT edge or wherever, so how do companies move from that department mindset, oh, the department handles the data warehouse or analytics, to a much more strategic, intelligent system? >> Well, that's an interesting question, John. I think it's one of the biggest things a business, you're going to have to think about. On the one hand, our expectations, we will continue to see a department. And the reason why that is, but not in a way that's historically been thought about, one of the reasons why that is, is because the entire business is going to share claims against the capabilities of technology. Marketing's going to lay a claim to it. Sales is going to lay claim to it. Manufacturing and finance are going to lay claims to it. And those claims have to be arbitrated. They have to be negotiated. So there will be a department, a group that's responsible for ensuring that the fundamental plant, the fundamental capabilities of the business are high quality and up and running and sustained. Having said that, the way that that is manifest is going to be much faster, much more local, much more in response to customer needs which often will break down functional type barriers. And so it's going to be this interesting combination of, on the one hand for efficiency and effectiveness standpoint, we're going to sustain that notion of a group that delivers while at the same time, everybody in the business is going to be participating more clearly in establishing the outcomes and how technology achieves those outcomes. It's very dynamic world and we haven't figured out how it's all going to come together. >> Well, we're seeing some trends, now you're seeing the marketing departments and these other departments taking some of that core competence that used to be kind of outsourced to the IT departments so analytics are moving in and data science and so you're seeing the early signs of that. I think modern analytics that CA was talking about was interesting, but I want to get your thoughts on the data value piece cause this is another billion dollar question or gazillion dollar question. Where is the value in the data? And from your research in the impact of digital business, where's the value come from? And how should companies think about extracting that value? >> Well, the value, first off, when we talk about the value of data we perhaps take a little license with the concept. And by that I mean, software to a computer scientist is data. It happens to be the absolutely most structured data you can possibly have. It is data that is so tightly structured that it can actually execute. So we bring software in under that rubric of the value of data. That's one way. The data is the basis for software and how we think about the business actually having consequential actions that are differentiated, increasing the digital world. One of the most important things, ultimately, about data is that unlike virtually every other asset that I can think about, money, labor, materials, all of those different types of assets are dominated by the economics of scarcity. You and I are sitting here having a conversation. I'm not running around and walking my dog right now. I can only do one thing with my time. I may have in my mind, thinking, but I can't create value at the same moment that I'm talking to you. I mean, we can create value here, I guess. Same thing if you have a machine and the machine is applied to pull a wire of a certain diameter, it's not pulling a wire of a different diameter. So these are all assets or sources that are dominated by scarcity. Data's different because the characteristics of data, the things that make data so unique and so interesting is that the same data can be applied to a lot of things at the same time. So we're talking about an asses that can actually amplify business value if it's appropriately utilized. And I think this is one of the, on the one hand, one of the reasons why data is often regarded, it's disposable, is because, oh I can just copy it or I can just do this with it or I can do that with it. It just goes away, it's ephemeral. But on the other hand, why leading businesses and a lot of these digital native companies, but increasing the other companies are now recognizing that with data as an asset, that kind of a thinking, you can apply the same data to a lot of different pursuits at the same time and quite frankly, that's what our customers want to see. Our customers want to see their requests, their needs be matched to capabilities, but also be used to build better products in the future, be used to ensure that the quality of the services that they're getting is high. That their needs are being met, their needs are being responded to. So they want to see data being applied to all these different uses. It's an absolutely essential feature in the future of digital business. >> And you've got to monitor in order to understand it. And for the folks watching, Peter had a great description in his Keynote, go check that video out around the elements of the digital business, how it's all working together. I'll let you go look at that. My final question for you is, you mention in your Keynote, the Wikibon private, true private cloud report. One of the things that's interesting in that graph, again on the Keynote he did present the slide, it's also on Wikibon.com if you're a member of the research subscription. It shows that actually the on premise assets are super valuable and that there's going to be a decline in labor, non differentiated labor or operational labor over the next six, seven years, around 1.6 billion dollars, but it shifts. And I think this was your point. Can you just explain in a little deeper way, the importance of that statistic because what it shows is, yes, automations coming. Whether it's analytics or machine learning and what not, but the value's shifting. Can you talk about that? >> Yeah, the very nature of the work that's performed within what we today call IT operations is shifting. It always has been. So when I was running around inside an IT organization, I remember some of the most frenetic activity that I saw was tape jockeys. We don't have too many tape jockeys in the world anymore, we still have tape, but we don't have a lot of tape jockeys anymore. So the first thing it suggests is that the very nature of the IT work that's going to be performed is going to change over the next few years. It's going to change largely in response to the fact that as folks recognize the value of the data and acknowledge that the placement of data to the event is going to be crucial to achieving that event within the envelope of time that that event requires. That ultimately the slow motion of dev op, which is still a maturing, changing, not broadly adopted set of concepts will start to change the nature of the work that we perform within that shared IT organization we were talking about a second ago. But the second thing it says is that we are going to be called upon to do a lot more work within an IT organization. A digital business is utilizing technology to perform a multitude of activities and that's just going to explode over the course of the next dozen years. So we have this combination of the works going to change, the amount of work that has, that's going to be performed by this group is going to expand dramatically, which means ultimately the only way out of this is the tooling is going to improve. So we expect to see significant advances in the productivity of an individual within an IT organization to support, sustain a digital business. And that's why we start to see some of the down tick in the cost of labor within IT. It's more important, more works going to be performed, but it's pretty clear that the industries now focus on improving that tooling and simplifying the way that that tooling works together. >> And having intelligence. >> Having intelligence, but also simplifying how it works together so it becomes more coherent. That's where we're going to need to improve these new levels of productivity. >> Real quick to end this segment, quickly talk about how CA connects to this because you know, they have modern analytics, they have modern monitoring strategies, the four pillars that you talked about. How do they connect into your research that you're talking about? >> Well I think one of the biggest things that a CIO is going to have to understand over the course of the next few years and we talked about a couple of them is, that this new architecture is not fully baked yet. We don't know what the new computing model is going to look like exactly. You know, not every business is Google. So Google's got a vision of it. Amazon's got a vision of it. But not every business is of those guys. So a lot of work on what is that new computing model? A second thing is this notion of ultimately where is or how is an IT organization going to deliver value? And it's clear that you're not going to deliver value by optimizing a single resource. You're going to deliver value by looking at all of these resources holistically and understand the inner connections and the interplay of these resources and how they achieve the business outcomes. So when I think about CA, I think of two things. First off, it is a company that has been at the vanguard of understanding how IT operations has worked, is working, and will likely continue to work as it evolves. And that's an important thing for a technology company that's serving IT operations to have. The second thing is, CA's core message, CA's tech core message now is evolving from just best of breed to how these things are going to come together. So the notion of modern moddering is to improve the visibility into everything as a holistic whole going back to that notion of, it's not just one device, it's how all devices holistically come together and the moddering fabric that we put in place has to focus on that and not just the productivity of any one piece. >> It's like an early day's test lick, it only gets better as they have that headroom to grow. Peter Burris head of research at Wikibon.com here, for one-on-one conversations, part of the cloud and modern analytics for digital business. Be back with more one-on-one conversations after this short break.