(upbeat music) >> Live from Nassau in the Bahamas, it's theCUBE Covering Polycon '18. Brought to you by Polymath >> Okay, welcome back everyone. This is theCUBE's exclusive live coverage here in the Bahamas for Polycon '18, put on by Polymath and Grit Capital. I'm here with the CEO of both of those companies, who have been gracious enough to let us come in and tap into the bandwidth, tap into the guests, and host us here at theCUBE's two days of exclusive coverage. We have great guests, Trevor Koverko, CEO of Polymath, really changing the game. Security tokens are really kind of driving great, fast, accelerated innovation. And we have Genevieve Roch-Decter who's a CEO of Grit Capital, funding it, being part of it. You guys created a great community. Welcome to theCUBE! >> Great, thanks for having us. >> Thank you. >> So, live coverage, thank you very much. We really appreciate the collaboration with you guys, great guests. But there's something magical going on here. You've got a big even, couple hundred, 400 people. But it feels like the early days of, when I was in my 20s, the computer revolution, PC, and then the internet came. People are doing deals. This is a very intimate conference, you've got whales, billionaires, you've got entrepreneurs, you've got folks from investment banking companies coming into the sector, young guns, all dudes and gals. I mean, This is a melting pot! >> We have professional athletes, too, yeah, no we've really brought together a cluster of different zones, if you will. I come from the world of the Canadian equivalent of Wall Street, Bay Street, and so we've got institutional investors here who don't have wallets don't have coins, and are learning about it from the top Crypto minds in the world, so it's quite magical. I don't think Trevor and I have slept in 60 days. We literally came up with this idea, it's supposed to be a very intimate setting of 20 or 30 people and it's ballooned into 600, mostly because Trevor has so many friends and is partnering up with a lot of them on his projects, so yeah it's been a great time so far. >> And Trevor you, by the way, you're not sleeping 'cause everyone's staying out til two in the morning. It's been a great intimate gathering, people are mingling. But they're players, they're not pretenders here. This is a really interesting group, people who are investing their time, it's mission-driven here. We talk about societal change, but there's money-making going on, too, you're powering that, I mean you've got to be exhausted, how do you feel? >> I call it the eye of the hurricane, this was like if you weren't here this week, in crypto, you're just not relevant, this is where you wanted to be. And it's all about the attendees, the caliber of the people that came just blew me away, very humbled by the quality of people that we had here, it's no surprise, we have a beautiful venue like here in the Bahamas, and at Baha Mar, and amazing people. Good things are going to happen. >> Community is a very important formula for success in this world, we've seen this movie before, in open-source software It started out as a tier-2 citizen, now it runs softwares tier-1 class capabilities, cloud computing has been amazing growth, crypto, same model, you know, it's emerged as the money, the value store, technology-enablement. What are you guys seeing as the pattern, 'cause honestly, people recognize that certainly in the in industry. If you don't you're going to miss the boat on this one. Most people who don't get it will probably miss the boat. But a lot of people are getting in, what is the pattern that's happening, why is this moving so fast? Is it the wealth creation, is it the money-making? Is it the technology enablement, what's you guys' reaction to the why? What's the why, here? >> I think it's a convergence of a lot of mega-trends going on right now, both of the technology and on the regulatory side. If you look at, you know, the exciting sexiness of having this liquid tokens that kind of feel like stocks, but are also utilities in the sense that you can use them to do certain things with, that's a big component of it. But I think another reason is just, there's a lot of strangling going on in the capital markets, where you have a lot less companies going public, you have a lot more barriers to raise capital, in a lot of ways. And this is kind of like, light peeking through the hole. Where you have new ways re-imagined ways to raise capital. So we're seeing just a convergence of a lot of mega-trends, I think. >> And a lot of pros are coming in, and they're either young pros that are learning and growing with this trend, the young guns, I call them, and then you've got pros coming in from other industries, whether it's banking, and other sectors, this is interesting. So the question I have for you, is the security token. This has been a big deal, a lot of companies have seen the ICOs on the utility side, certainly the SEC in the US has been really sending signals pretty radically, like hey, don't pump and dump, I don't want to see any, watch that advisor stuff, and oh by the way, show me the utility, how we test et cetera, et cetera. That the startups who have to build the future are trying to rush a utility token out, now have a safe harbor in the security token, and existing companies can raise money with the security token that are tokenizing a real business, this is a pretty important point. Can you guys share some color commentary on that? Do you agree with it, and then, if you do, share some color around this whole trend. >> Yeah, I mean, right now if you look today, there's two major categories of tokens as you alluded to, you have utilities on the one hand, and securities on the other hand. And the distribution right now is extremely one-sided. Security tokens are dominated by utilities. Utilities like Bitcoin, Ether, Ripple, they make up 99% of the total market cap of alt coins, so, where does that leave us? Well it depends, today it means all the action is in utilities, there's more upside, they're faster, they're simpler, I'm very bullish on utilities. But what's even more exciting to me, is the mega-trend the tsunami of real-world financial assets migrating to the blockchain. And that's what I see as the next sort of part two, second-wave of crypto, is real-world, tangible assets tokenizing and migrating to the blockchain. >> And you know what I think, you know the SEC kind of gets a bad rap in all this, but the rules are there for a certain reason: to protect investors, and I think that this industry is in the beginning it's a nascent, and you know, with Trevor's company Polymath introducing the securities token. Literally, I think you coined the word. It's growing up, it's an industry that has to, you know, it's going to have some red tape, too, right, and I think working with the regulators, and Trevor's company has done that, you know, befriend them, and be open-source about it, and communal. And, you know there's certain aspects about the regulations that are not good, and we don't want communication and the communities that have formed, Telegram's a great example of this, so there's a lot of these chat rooms that I'm in and literally people are sharing information about companies and teaching each other, and learning and that's great. But there is an assymetry of information sharing, that at some point, you know, we have to rein that in. But we don't want to lose the positive aspects. >> You could choke the innovation, if you put too much regulatory on it, the innovation won't grow, so you have to have a balance, I mean, that's what you're saying, right? You got to get through it, but redefine a new era. And the SEC in the US has not been too bad, I think they're just sending a signal, and I think they're not, And they can be hardcore. They could be harder core, I think, than they are. But thank God they're not, you want to let these startups figure out what to do. Alright so I got to talk about liquidity and funding. So, Grit Capital, you guys are involved in investments also, you're enabling partnerships at Polymath. A lot of people you're connecting into your system, we had one on earlier. The funding environment, certainly a lot of investors are here I talked to probably at least a dozen actively investing, different profile make-ups some go hardcore protocol under the hood, some are more business we're going to decentralize apps. Make-up, Persona, trends, can you share? >> Yeah! >> You know that world. Eight months ago, so, I'm from Toronto, I'm from Canada. Eight months ago, there was literally no publicly-traded blockchain company in Canada. And now there's probably, I think, 70, you know, new one every day, name change. But yeah, there's been a lot of equity raised. There's two companies about to go public actually, in Canada Hut 8 Mining, who's our sponsor here at the conference, and Galaxy Digital Michael Novogratz's company, and I think between the two of them, they've raised almost half a billion dollars in capital. Or, like market capitalization when they go public. Probably about 250 million in actual capital. But that's huge, those checks were written not by just by high net worth people, but actual institutions. And those people that are here today, they're good with writing equity checks, ICO checks and that is going to come. And I think the securities token aspect of it will give them a lot of comfort that they can write checks in those kinds of-- >> And how does Grit Capital, talk about Grit Capital. >> Yeah so very simply, we introduce companies to capital holders, investors. So I was a portfolio manager for nine years, and I like to say I was in the no game for nine years, 'cause when you're portfolio managing-- >> Now you're in the yes game! >> Yeah, your goal-tending, you're like trying not to let bad deals in, and that wasn't really conducive to my personality and now I'm in the yes game, I'm you know, I like this company, I'm going to invest in it, but I'm going to introduce them to these other capital holders. And it's a positive experience. >> How much is community involved in what you do? 'cause we're seeing obviously the pattern of kind of paying it forward, which is great culture, but also people are, you know help scratch my back, I'll scratch your back on deal flow, and also on participation, it seems to be a big part of the current rules of engagement, or implied protocol. Is that going on? >> Yeah, you know, look I think this is a very collaborative ecosystem, and It's has to be because by definition, open-source communities are powered by the people that make it up, and it's all about volunteering, about helping, about giving back, and it's one of the reasons I'm so passionate about this space. >> I think you should probably talk about your fund that you just announced that you're launching. And it probably plays into, so Trevor's network is global, it's extensive he has deal-flow coming at him all the time. >> Alright, so what's in the news? >> Yeah what are going to do with that deal flow? You holding news back? >> Yeah, I've got a bit of a brain freeze, I have so many announcements out there, uh, yeah we're doing a lot of exciting initiatives right now, and part of what I'm excited about, and also slightly intimidated by, is that there's just so much opportunity, there's so many key components of this new infrastructure that need to get build, that aren't in existence yet, that is easy to get, you know, carried away. But for me it's about prioritizing and finding out the real kind of high-leverage initiatives that are going to help us achieve our goals. >> And so you're putting a fund together to invest in the ecosystem, or is this for financial investment, is it a crypto fund, or what are you, what's going on? >> One of those initiatives is a securities token focused venture fund, this will be the first one that I know of that exists, and it would be to help our ecosystem get financed, and that's a big component of this marketplace is capital, is investors, is demand. And we just want to channel all of that to the best deals. So Polymath capital-- >> Ecosystem is important to you guys, Polymath your ecosystem is strategic, right? >> Yes. >> How do you see that playing out, what's your vision? What do you hope to unfold in your ecosystem? Obviously, people connect in the variety of things that you can help people with, and vice versa. How do you see your ecosystem rolling out? >> Well, part of it is I want an arms length organization that has its own kind of mandate, its own charter. And the way I look at it is, if you look at Ethereum, which I am very familiar with being from Toronto and knowing those guys kind of since day one. They opted not to do a venture fund, but if they had, it would have been literally the most, >> John: high performance fund ever in history? >> Of all time, yeah, just mathematically-speaking, so we don't want to lose out on an opportunity like that. And in the process of building another potentially profitable entity we want to also seed the ecosystem and help projects that we're excited about. Get the first check. >> Who are you looking for in your ecosystem? Is it developers, 'cause obviously Ethereum, we're Ethereum developed we're a ERC20 token, we love it. It's easy to work with, smart contracts are easy to work with, so it's clearly a developer market on that side, are you guys looking for the same? Is it a different kind of partner, what is some of the partner makeup that you hope to attract, in case they're watching now, why should they work with you, who are they? Describe the persona of your ideal ecosystem partners, or partner. >> For better or worse we have a lot of verticals that we have to build communities within, so those are the business community, we want leaders, we want action-takers we want people that can structure deals, we want legal professionals, that's a big component of the security token landscape, is the regulation is the exemptions, and the offerings, and the memorandums, and all the legal stuff, so we need a legal community. And then finally, most importantly, we need a developer for community, we need the best technical minds just like any other decentralized project, so that's what my full-time job is, when people ask me, is building communities with our broader community. >> Well I can totally give you props, one, because I know you're super busy, and you're drinking from the fire hose at all levels, and certainly the event's been great. I think a breath of fresh air, a sigh of relief from the world when see entrepreneurs, at least from the perspective of the entrepreneurs and the markets is that security tokens, finally someone just made a decision let's just use this security token as a way to get the funding and get set up, and not foreclose the option for, say, a utility token. Why rush and force a utility, needs to be built out. And lot of these utilities have really missed out because they had to run so fast to write code funded by a utility, that has a test. So I think you guys are doing a great service, I want to give you props for that. >> Thank you, yeah I would whole-heartedly agree, I think a lot of these so-called utility coins are actually securities masquerading as utilities, and you know, >> I think that's the game everyone kind of is realizing like, okay great, now you have the platform, so what's the update on the platform, the company? Take a quick minute to explain to the folks about Polymath. >> We are inundated and overwhelmed with demand right now. And we have thousands, tens of thousands of sign-ups on both the investor and issuer side. And kind of my goal right now on a day-to-day basis is to scale our on-boarding process so we can take all these issuers and give them a secure and robust token that they can fundraise on top of. And we are in the process of unveiling our application layer that's going to make that kind of self-serve process exciting and scalable. >> Well congratulations, and Grit Capital, genevieve, thanks for connecting, great to connect with you. Shout out to Bill Tai who made it happen. If it wasn't for Bill Tai and Genevieve, theCUBE would not be here, and of course Polymath supporting us as well. It's been great, so thank you very much! >> Thank you! >> Great event, and we'll keep on following you guys and thanks for coming on, sharing success. Final question: The craziest thing that's happened here this week, one, two, three, things that might have won? Craziest thing that's happened, could be good, bad, or ugly. Did someone fall in the pool? Was someone found on the beach? Share a funny story or two. >> We found a mermaid. >> there was a mermaid, yeah. >> A real, live mermaid, we actually found a mermaid. And we put her in the pool for the cocktail event. >> And we almost put Trevor in the pool as a merman. Just to balance it out. >> Merman, We're a mermaid-neutral company we have mermen as well, oh geez, what else? We had uh, a friend of our decided to get the jacuzzi suite at the top floor and uh, I don't know if you've ever seen the movie Scarface? But there was a lot of uh, opulence going on, which was a little more than I bargained for. And then Genevieve being the celebrity that she is. Umm, what do you think? >> Umm, I mean there's been so much, like, we've had literally 13 side-events within the conference. So drinking from a fire hose is an understatement, I would say, there's still more to do, we're going to Cabana pool party now so maybe, I think there's going to be a bull there, a stampede security bull there? >> Trevor: Oh geez, is there? >> And maybe the SEC, no! (laughs) >> Well, hey congratulations, you guys are doing a great service in the industry and I love how you brought together the inner-circle major players, really the community really admires that so appreciate your help. Okay this is theCUBE, live coverage in the Bahamas. More interviews after this short break, stay with us. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: Live From Nassau in the Bahamas, it's theCUBE covering Polycon 18. Brought to you by Polymath. >> Hello and welcome back to our live coverage of Polycon 18. We are in the Bahamas. It's theCUBE's coverage of the cryptocurrency, ICO's, blockchain, the entire industry on token economics. This is sponsored by Polymath, they're the host, hosting us here. They make a securitized token platform to help people tokenize their business. I'm here with Dave Vellante, and we're here with Al Burgio, Cube alumni, one of the only Cube alumni here. Now we're adding more, good to see you. >> Thank you for having me, guys. >> Thanks for coming on, Al, you're the CEO/founder of a blockchain venture, Fusechain, and open-source project, DigitalBits. >> Correct. >> DigitalBits.io, we talked about this on studio in Palo Alto, around the project, how's it going? Are you doing an ICO, what's happening, what's the momentum, talk about what's going on. >> Well the momentum is great, um, as we can see by an event like this. I mean, the attendance in phenomenal, the discussions are great, and there's definitely an ongoing movement towards blockchain, cryptocurrencies and so forth. And we're obviously very excited to be a part of it, and equally so been experiencing phenomenal success while we've been in stealth mode, and we're excited to be sharing that in the coming weeks to the public. >> I always try to get data out of you, but you're like an iron trap, man. You like, will not reveal it. I saw you in the hallways this morning, and even last night at dinner, I mean, surrounded by investors you're getting, and people throwing their cards at you. That's a good sign, I mean, but it's still early. This is an emerging ecosystem, and you're a senior entrepreneur, so you're attracting that kind of interest in the venture solid. What's the story, what's the story of these investors? What are they interested in, why are they approaching you, why the appetite for your project? And how are you approaching as a seasoned ICO, most people want to promote the hell out of their opportunities. You're not, you're taking a different approach. >> Well we definitely, obviously we'll turn on the marketing engine with a full tank of gas. And you'll see that in the coming weeks, but we've been able to definitely have, you know, a significant number of conversations while in the stealth mode phase. Really I think what's attracting a lot of the interest is that we've identified a massive market opportunity. And really where blockchain technology can help, among other things, bring a liquidity to a space that does lack liquidity, and that for us, is the loyalty rewards market. It's a multi-billion dollar market, and we feel that what we've built with the DigitalBits protocol and the DigitalBits network is really going to solve a big problem out there for businesses, enterprises, as well as consumers. And you know, we're excited to be bringing that to life, and with phenomenal support from ecosystem partners, among others. >> Let's talk about the show. We're going to bring you back tomorrow when we wrap up, cause I know you got a lot of meetings and scheduling, you got to check out the sessions, so I want to get your take on the show after the fact. But going into the show, you have some early conversations, some early data's coming in from these hallway conversations and interviews. What are you seeing, I mean, what's the bottom line? Is it ICOs are hot, the SEC is coming down and putting out subpoenas, a wave of subpoenas recently. The advisor role, you got venture capitalists, it's unregulated, they're selling, they're pumping, they're dumping. You know I know of a couple people that are in some coin deals that are, you know, venture funds, but they're also marketing. >> Yeah. >> The same thing, so they're getting their hand slapped. What's the state of the industry? >> I think, you know, there's high energy in the space. It's moving really fast, and some organizations are getting overly anxious, moving perhaps a little too fast without getting their ducks in a row, and maybe perhaps that's resulting in some wrist slapping. But overall, you know, this is a big evolution that's happening. And what we're seeing obviously is a new asset class, but it can take the shape of perhaps the security, or utility, and you know, the law applies to these things differently. And so, you know, people need to do their homework. >> So you were at the VideoCoin event last night. That had been very successful. We're going to have Halsey Minor come on shortly for an interview, seasoned entrepreneur, he's back at the game. I mean, this market's attracting pros. We had the Goldman Sachs guys now run BlockTower, institutional investors, you got pro entrepreneurs coming on, and you got the young guns coming up. I mean this is really kind of a really robust, fertile environment. >> I think it's only the beginning. We're going to see a tremendous amount of ongoing pedigree enter this space. Every day we're seeing evidence of ongoing validation, and you know, it's by no coincidence that we're already seeing some phenomenal pedigree, and I think you know, like I said, it's just going to continue. >> What's the one observation that you would share to people that are watching about this event? Obviously lot of Canadians here, you're Canada living in the U.S., but it's not just Canadians, it's a global economy, what's your observation? >> Sorry? >> What's your observation of the show? >> There's definitely, if I look at the attendee list here, it's this convergence that's happening. So you have Wall Street or the Canadian equivalent, which is Bay Street, you know traditional investment banking, brokerage-type institutions that are here, very curious in terms of how blockchain will impact the securities markets. And then you have the innovators that are on the forefront of this really driving the technology that's going to support and help even that industry evolve. So there's a lot of talk here, in particularly as it relates to that category of things. >> Lot of whales, a lot of influencers, a lot of advisors, a lot of money here, lot of action. >> Lot of action. >> All right, Al Burgio is the founder and CEO of Fusechain, and the sponsors of DigitalBits.io, it's a great open-source project, check it out. I'm going to still try to get some information out of you, cause you're still in stealth mode, but you're good. >> Thanks for having me, guys. >> Thanks for coming on. >> Cube alumni here in Bahamas for theCUBE coverage. I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante. More coverage after this short break.