>> Narrator: From the Cube Studios in Palo Alto and Boston, it's the Cube, covering empowering the autonomous enterprise, brought to you by Oracle Consulting. >> Hi everybody, welcome back to this special digital presentation where we are tracking the transformation of Oracle Consulting. Aaron Millstone is back, he's the Senior Vice President of Oracle Consulting and he's joined by Jeff Davis whose Principal at Deloitte, he's the Chief Commercial Officer for Oracle at Deloitte. Gentlemen, good to see you, welcome. We see a lot of these deals, sometimes we call them Barney deals, you know, I love you, you love me, there's a press release and that's it. But, so one of the things we look for, okay, is there teeth behind this? Now, you guys have come up with what you call Elevate. What is Elevate, how did it get started? Then I have some follow up questions. >> Well, Elevate really got started when Aaron and I started to look at the assets that each of the firms possessed. On the Deloitte side as Aaron suggested, we have deep capabilities and a broad range of technologies. Some of them could be technologies with Oracle. At the same time, we didn't have a great deal of depth in Oracle's technical products, Oracle Cloud infrastructure and Oracle Autonomous. Our bench was not as big as Aaron's. And Aaron also had access to Oracle development at a level that we didn't have access to. So we really found ourselves in a situation where we could put those two capabilities together and we could offer something to our clients. And the broad rage of Oracle customers in the field, they had access to all of Deloitte's capabilities, which include great project management, great change management, real skill around the strategic aspects of cloud migration and Aaron had tools and had resources trained and developed around the latest Oracle technology. They'd always be a step ahead of any SI. So together we felt this was really a differentiation for the market place. >> One of the things we look for, is there any other integration? Are you doing co-engineering? In this case maybe not co-engineering, but are there tools that you're developing that you're taking to market that you're actually leveraging? Aaron, can you talk about that a little bit and convince us it's not just a sales play? >> Yeah, sure, and Jeff eluded to some of this earlier too, right. So, we definitely each had our respective tool line, right? Deloitte's investments and tools, one of them's called ATADATA, that we've seen used quite a few times now. We've invested in something we called Oracle Soar. You know, our tools are, as you'd imagine, heavily Oracle focused. It's about moving Oracle technology to Oracle cloud. ATADATA and some of the tools that Deloitte's invested in are focused more comprehensively on wholistically at looking at everything in a data center and everything that's across data centers and start to develop a set of facts around this stuff. But in both cases we actually looked at these things and we said, you know what if you combine these together, we get a very comprehensive view of what exactly it is that we're looking at with a customer. So we can tell everything from the types of traffic we see on the network, to the specific versions of stuff. We can start to identify whether there's risk associated with having things not patched or out of support, but again a very comprehensive view that's based on facts. And so, you know, we took those tools and we combined them together so that we can go in to a customer and give a complete end to end view from both an Oracle and Deloitte perspective. And quite frankly it doesn't matter whether Deloitte leads or whether Oracle leads, we've developed these tools together, we're going to market together, and we've even got, you know, the templates you'd expect consultancies to have right? So when you look at business cases, we've got joint business case templates that we've created together and that we're using actively with customers and then we're refining them and improving them each time we do it. But, you know, we're at a point now where our tools are combined, our templates are combined and we even at this, you know, we were even- Jeff and I were on a call earlier, yesterday actually, we even got a joint war room that's constantly engaging with different account teams and making sure that we structurally approach things in a consistent way so that we're driving business value and using the tools appropriately. >> Aaron you and I have talked about, you know, data centers and building data centers and investing; it's just not a good use of capital today. There are so many other things that organizations can do. You guys have identified data center consolidation as, I'll call it a you know, an initiative that you're seeing customers. I wondered if you could talk about that a little bit, is that kind of a starting point for conversations? >> Yeah, well it's definitely a starting point. So we call it and refer to it as infrastructure lead transformation and the appetite for that is certainly high. We're seeing an increased focus on you know, what do customers need to do to take not just a workload here and there, but how to they get out of the data center business hole? So it's sort of, it's a forgone conclusion. Like you just said, it's not really a question of should we invest in another data center, or should we invest in up-tooling our data centers? The question has changed to, let's move to cloud, how do we get there? And let's move in a big way. And that's, we're seeing that dialogue across all of our customers. And quite frankly, even for Oracle, it's been a learning curve for us, right? We started with an Oracle workload conversation, which is: do you want to move this Oracle workload to Oracle's cloud? Do you want to move that Oracle workload to Oracle's cloud? And really what we're finding is it's a wholesale transformation of everything in a data center to one or more clouds right? Again, often it's a multicloud strategy and that's okay. And we, you know, we're having more-bigger conversations. The thing that has been really interesting is these conversations have evolved and especially as we work with our partners at Deloitte, has been that, you know, we think that the combination of our cloud technology, the consulting services that Oracle consulting and Deloitte can bring to bear and then Oracle's ability to finance the whole deal, makes some very compelling conversations for customers cause you can walk in to a CIO, to a CFO and say look on day one, you can actually have a lower spend than what you have today in your data center, and get a cloud transformation on Deloitte at the same time. >> Let's talk a little bit more about that business case. Is that generally what you're seeing where it starts as let's take some costs right out? And then, Aaron, you and I talked about maybe investing that in the future, but is that really the starting point for the vast majority of customers? Let's cut some costs right away and get a payback immediately? >> So I'd like to share our perspective which is, you know, nobody spends money for the sake of spending money on technology. It's got to have meaningful business value. So the conversation starts with really renewal and a path to the cloud, but there's a natural opportunity for savings and consolidation that we take advantage. We're not simply shifting from your hardware to the cloud. We're actually modernizing, which will result in significant savings. But it also gives the business something that they don't have today at a level of security and scalability. An ability to run modern technology much faster, much better, and much more scalable. >> Jeff could you give us a sense as to how far you're into this elevate journey maybe thinking about a couple of customers either specifically or generically, you know, where you're at with them, how far along, maybe even some examples that you feel are representative. >> Sure, you know, the, the relationship has been probably about six, close to seven months of maturity. In that time we've had an opportunity to work on several key clients at scale. We've worked together in collaboration on one of the nation's largest retailers in the grocery business. We've worked collaboratively in aerospace and defense, And also in the hospitality industry. In these cases, what we're finding, and one is, each one is in a various stage of maturity. One is done, one is in midstream, and one is at the early stages. And current economic conditions are driving a huge pipeline right now. I think our challenge right now is making sure that we identify those clients that can best take advantage of our services and our joint offering to deal with that pipeline right now. What we're finding is that the savings are at least as we've projected, in some cases we're finding even more. What people say they have and what people say they do isn't necessarily what you find when you get in there. But almost every case, we're finding that there's unused equipment, unused capacity that they currently have, redundancy, low utilization of their current assets. We can go a long way in streamlining that, plus, I can't emphasize enough that, these days, security is a major concern. And we're adding a layer of security that they could never achieve themselves. I'll start off by saying each deal is really custom built around what a customer really needs, what they're trying to get out of it. Right now, as an example, OPEX is very important. So we're engineering deals in a way that helps customers deal with their financial challenges, especially around OPEX. There are other structures that we can put in place. We have the backing of Oracle finance, so we can be very innovative on deals. They can be when value is attained, they can be milestone based. There's just, I think, a wide variety, I don't want to say unlimited, but a wide variety of different options that we can offer our clients in order to be able to deal with whatever financial challenge or opportunity they may be looking at. >> What does success look like, you know, when you were, you know, just less than a year in. When you're two, three, four, let's say five years in and you look back, what does success look like, Aaron? >> So to me success will, success is going to look like we've gotten a number of these big transformation deals in play, it's in motion naturally between our organizations, not necessarily driven entirely by Jeff and I going out and driving the organizations to behave the right way, it's more in our DNA. But more importantly, I think we've gone into, we've gone beyond the conversation of let's move workloads and we've gone into conversations of let's really talk about how to reimagine your business on top of Oracle's cloud and have an ongoing dialogue that looks at that transformation. Once we hit that point, three, four, five years from now, that'll be a wild success in my book. >> Jeff? Final thoughts. >> Deloitte's been around for 175 years, this is our birthday, this year. And in that time what we've learned is there's no substitute for impact and value added to our clients. In our perspective, what success looks like is client's success, client's success means improved scalability of their operations, securing their technology and their data at a substantially lower cost, so that they can focus on what their core business is and focus less on technology. That's success to Deloitte. >> Great Guys thanks so much, great session. We're not only witnessing the rebirth of Oracle consulting, but there's clearly a transformation going on and it's cultural. Gentlemen, congratulations on your partnership and thanks so much for coming in theCUBE. >> Thank you so much. >> Thanks for having us.

>>Yeah, yeah, yeah! >>Everybody, welcome back to the special digital presentation where we are tracking the transformation of Oracle consulting. And really, it's rebirth. Aaron Millstone is back. He's the senior vice president of consulting, joined by Jeff Davis. Who's ah, principal at Deloitte. He's the chief commercial officer for Oracle at Deloitte. Gentlemen, good to see you. Welcome. >>Thank you very much. >>Thanks for having me back. >>You're welcome, guys. Jeff, let me start with you. I've got the obvious question is why would Deloitte World Class? Yes, I well known why you partnering with Oracle Consultant? >>We're really It was a perfect match. The fact that we were looking to grow our oracle practice and really new and innovative ways around Oracle's cloud technology. Uh, in discussions with the oil, coal and specifically with Aaron Millstone, we discovered that we really had complementary capabilities and very little overlapping capabilities. So it was natural for us to find a way to work together. And specifically we found that there were strategic assets we had and there were tactical assets that Oracle had the mixture of two made a really unique and compelling value proposition for the customer base >>and Aaron. I mean, we've talked about the shift from from staff augmentation to much more strategic partnering with your customers. But you're not trying to compete with the big size of there's, there's it sounds like there's not a lot of overlap there. Where do you pick up and leave off for Deloitte? You describe that? >>Sure. I mean, we're You're right, right? We're not. We're not ever going to try to compete with the Deloitte. It's not our that's not in our DNA. It's not our intention. We exist to drive Oracle's to drive success for our customers on Oracle's cloud. That's that's our mantra. That's what we focus in on. So for us, right, we're deep technologists. We're We understand our cloud. We understand how cloud works within our various product suites that we migrate to the cloud. We understand how to manage it. We understand how to build paths extensions to it, but we don't have big program management. We don't understand non oracle components that well, you know, we've got some expertise here and there. But if we need to expand, you know, on Oracle solution to coexist with a Microsoft azure solution, we can't do that without going to a partner and as we bigger and the transformation that they're gonna have to change management and big, big transformation journey capabilities. Like again, That's not That's not expertise. >>Yeah, so Jeff will come back to you. So we see a lot of these deals. Sometimes we call them Barney deals. I love you. You love me. There's a press release, and that's it. But so one of the things we look for okay is their teeth behind this. You guys have come out with what you call elevate. What is elevate? How did it get started? And I have some follow up questions. >>Yeah, well, elevate really got started when Aaron and I started to look at the assets that each of the firms possessed on the Deloitte side, as Aaron suggested, We have deep capabilities and a broad range of technologies, some of them competing technologies with Oracle at the same time. Uh, we didn't have a great deal of depth in Oracle's technical products, Oracle Cloud Infrastructure and Oracle Autonomous. Our bench was not as big as Aaron's, and Aaron also had access to your local development at a level that we didn't have access to. So we really found ourselves in a situation where we could put those two capabilities together and we could offer something to our clients and a broad range of customers. Oracle customers in the field. They had access to all of the Lloyds capabilities, which includes great project management, great change management, real skill around the strategic aspects of cloud migration. And Aaron had tools on had resource is trained and developed around the late historical technology. They'd always be a step ahead of any s I So together we felt this was really a differentiation for marketplace, right, Erin? >>Yeah, absolutely right. And if I don't think I would add to it is that if you if you look at Deloitte approaches client conversation from, ah, business value perspective, you know, the work consulting teams tends to focus conversation. It tends to approach conversations with a focus on How do you want to do the technology? Um, both are helpful. But, you know, quite frankly, as we get into the bigger information in place, we need to lead with the Lloyd model of how do we How do we drive your business value and then begin from a technologist perspective, that's when we show up. So it really has been a very logical, very complimentary match. >>So you and I have talked about, you know, data centers and building data centers and investing. It's not just it's just not a good use of capital today. There's so many other things that organizations can do. You guys have identified data center. Consolidation is, is I'll call it Ah, you know, an initiative that you're seeing customers. I wonder if you could talk about that a little bit. Is that kind of a starting point for conversations? >>Yeah, well, it's definitely starting point, right? So we call it a referred to his infrastructure led transformation, Um, and appetite. The appetite for that is certainly high. We were seeing an increased focus on um, you know what customers need to do to take not just a workload here and there. But how do they get out of the data center business full? So it's a foregone conclusion, right? Like you just said, it's not. It's not really a question of should we invest in another data center? Where should we invest in up to in their data centers? The question has changed to Let's move the cloud. How do we get there and let's move in a big way? And that's why we're seeing that dialogue across all of our customers. And we find even for Oracle, it's been a learning for us, right? We started with on Oracle workload conversation, which is, Do you want to move this work? Work loads of oracle? But you want to move that Oracle workload works. And really, what we're finding is it's a wholesale transformation of everything in the data center, too. One or more clouds, right again, often often it's a multi cloud strategy, and that's okay. And we, you know, we were having more bigger conversations. The thing that has been really interesting is these conversations have evolved, and especially as we work with our partners at Deloitte, has been that, you know, we think that the combination of our our cloud technology, the consulting services that Oracle Consulting and Deloitte can bring to bear and then Oracle's ability to finance the whole deal makes the very compelling conversations for customers because you can walk in to a CEO to a CFO and say, Look on day one, you can actually have a lower spend that what you have today in your data center and get a cop transformation underway at the same time. >>So I want to come back to that business case and member Jeff, before we do, I want to ask you. So we heard Erin, you know, talking about the catalyst. You know, that sort of infrastructure transformation. But you're in the outcomes business, right in both. The bush has been deployed especially so So what is that North Star that you're seeing with customers? You know, it's not about the tech. They're not starting there. Um, that will often tell you that's kind of the easy part. But then we see tech coming and going, and it's the It's the business process. That's the people issues lining everybody. So what are you seeing is so the outcomes. What's that conversation like with your customers? >>Yeah, well, really, this conversation starts with business leadership. Um, if you think about it, there's a strong value proposition in infrastructure renewal. It's not at the top of mind, but once you start to understand the value that's created, it does raise two ah, high priority. Now, our experiences that virtually every board is looking for the C suite toe have a cloud strategy of some kind. People recognize the value of cloud in, uh in many of our clients and many of Oracle's customers, so the boards are pressing the C suite for a cloud strategy. Among those things are the value that cloud brings, including virtually unlimited scalability. Is is being tested real time now with a lot of current events. So when you see the scalability when you know you need a cloud strategy of some kind, your business advisors impressing you, the value proposition starts well, how do we get there? And what does it take to be successful? Our perspective is that it's it's fair to believe that the cloud will reduce infrastructure. Spend significantly. It's a great opportunity for consolidation. It also adds a layer of security, resiliency and scalability that you simply couldn't do on your own. So it addresses a lot of business needs Aziz well as a number of technical needs that need to be addressed. >>So let's talk a little bit more about that business cases that generally what you're seeing, where it starts is let's take some costs right out, and then Aaron, you and I talked about maybe investing that in the future of it. But is that really the starting point for the vast majority of customers? Let's let's let's cut some costs right away and get a payback immediately. >>So I'd like to share our perspective, which is, you know, nobody spends money for the sake of spending money on technology. It's got to have meaningful business value. So the conversation starts with really renewal and a path to the cloud. But there's a natural opportunity for savings in consolidation that we take advantage. We're not simply shifting from your hardware to the cloud we're actually modernizing, which will result in significant savings. But it also gives the business something that they don't have today at a level of security and scalability and ability to run a modern technology much faster, much better. Ah, and much more scalable. >>So a lot of people might again I go back to these deals. I think of this as a sales play. One of the things we look for is there. Is there any other integration? Are you doing co engineering in this case, maybe not, co engineering But are there tools that you're developing that you're taking to market, that you're actually leveraging? Eric, can you talk about that a little bit? Convinces. That's not just the sales play. >>Yeah, sure. And Jeff alluded to some of this earlier, too, right? So we definitely each had our respective tool. Angry Deloitte's investments in tools, what was built out of data that we have seen used quite a few times now we've been investing in something we call the Oracle soar. You know, our tools are, as you'd imagine, heavily Oracle focus. It's about moving Oracle technology to Oracle Cloud out of data and some of the tools that Deloitte's invested in our focus more comprehensively on holistically, looking at everything in a data center and everything that's across data centers and start to develop a set of facts around this stuff. But in both cases, we actually looked at these things and we said, You know what? If you combine these together, we get a very comprehensive view of what exactly it is, but we're looking at with a customer so we can tell everything from the types of traffic we see in the network to the specific versions of stuff you start to identify whether there's risk associated with having things, not aster on a supporter and get a very conference of you that's based on facts. And so, you know, we took those tools. We combined them together so that we can go into a customer and give a complete end and view from both on Oracle and Delight Perspective. And quite frankly, it doesn't matter whether the Lloyd leads or whether Oracle leads. We've developed these tools together. We're going to market together. And we've even got you know, the templates you'd expect consultancies tohave, right? So when you look at business cases, we've got joint business case templates that we've created together and that we're using actively with customers and therefore then we're refining them, improving them each time we do it. But, you know, we're at a point now where our tools are combined, templates are combined, and we even at this, you know, we're even Jeff in our poll earlier yesterday actually even got a joint Ah, war room that's constantly engaging with different account teams and making sure that we structurally approach things in a consistent way so that we're driving business value and using the tools appropriately. >>You know, I think, um, migration risk is probably one of the most significant factors in a business case. I mean, many don't understand it, but those in I t. And certainly hopefully in the executive office do you understand it? It sounds like that's a part of your tooling, anyway is designed to mitigate that's significant migration risk. When you talk about that a little bit, >>yeah, so we, you know, we approach migration from, you know, we start with the conversation. I'm almost always some type of log of what? The list of applications, what versions of things running they've been maintained by some might department somewhere, right? Or the collective? It's in varying degrees of accuracy is what we find. We don't rely on that. We go in and our our tools, our combined tooling across oracle, Deloitte interrogate the systems. We come back with actual information from the actual systems themselves. And then we started the plan. And so the funny thing is, with the migration, you know, probably 80% of the effort. 90% of the effort is in the planning stages and making sure that we understand exactly what we're moving exactly. When again, we're not. We're not dealing with the edge applications. Typically, we're dealing with the mission critical applications that are supporting the heart of a supply chain or a finance operation. And you can't. You just can't afford the down time that maybe you could afford on something that might be a consumer facing or a little less mission. Critical. So, yeah, we start finding very early and interrogate aggressively with actual data. >>Jeff, can you give us a sense as to how far you're into this elevate journey? May be thinking about a couple of customers either specifically or generically gonna where you're at with them. How far along? Maybe even some examples that you feel are representative. >>Sure. Um, you know, the the relationship has been probably about six Ah, close to seven months of maturity. In that time, we've had an opportunity to work on several key clients at scale. Uh, we've worked together in collaboration with one of the nation's largest retailers in the grocery business. We've worked collaboratively in aerospace and defense and also in the hospitality industry. In these cases, what we're finding and one is each one is in the various stage of maturity. One is done, one is in midstream on one is at the early stages and current economic conditions or driving a huge pipeline. Right now, I think our challenge right now is making sure that we identify those clients that can best take a value, take advantage of our services and our joint offering to deal with that pipeline. Right now, what we're finding is that the savings are at least as we projected. In some cases, we're finding even more. What people say they have and what people say they do isn't necessarily what you find when you get in there. But almost every case we're finding that there's unused equipment, unused capacity that they currently have redundancy, low utilization of their current assets. We can go a long way and streamlining that. Plus, I can't emphasize enough that ah, these days security is a major concern and we're adding a layer of security that they could never achieve themselves with soft. >>How do you guys on how the customers wanna approach the transaction? Is it a Bixby is a T and M. Is it a situation where you participate in some of the some of the savings of the game. How does the pricing work? >>So we have Go >>ahead. Um, I'll start off by saying each deal is really custom built around what a customer really needs, what they're trying to get out of it right now. As an example, Op X is very important. So we're engineering deals in a way that helps customers deal with their financial challenges, especially around op Ex. There are other structures that we can put in place. We have the backing of Oracle Finance, so we can be very innovative on deals they could be. When value was attained. They could be milestone based. There's just, uh, I think, a wide variety I don't want to say unlimited, but a wide variety of different options that we can offer our clients in order to be able to deal with whatever financial challenge or opportunity that may be looking at >>perfect, perfect. And you want >>to add to that >>and everything looking at other than you know, the there are. There are always things that are discovered during a personal project, and so, you know, we we also we do factor and things that allow some flexibility. Right? So even if we have a fixed price deal will include a bucket of ours to deal with, you know, unanticipated changes or even innovation. It doesn't have to be, You know, contingency could be Hey, we want to go out and spend and invest some money on artificial intelligence machine learning analytics over in this space since we've already moved these applications. All right, so we're approaching it again from a very flexible standpoint, and we're just point right. We can we can custom craft. Ah, deal to match what? The clients. Best business outcome. Okay. >>Yeah, that makes sense. That client might see some adjacent opportunity that they want to pursue, and they want that to be covered in the agreement I'm gonna end. Um, if you start with you, Aaron and then Jeff go to you. How? What do you guys see? A success? What does success look like? You know, when you were, you know, just less than a year in when you're 234 let's say five years and you look back, What does success look like? >>So, to me, successful success is gonna look like we've gotten a number of these big transformation deals in play. It's in motion, naturally between our organizations, not necessarily driven entirely by Jeff and I going out and driving the organization behave the right way. It's more in our DNA. But more importantly, I think we've gone into We've gone beyond the conversation of Let's Move workloads. We've gone into conversations off. Let's really talk about how to reimagine your business on top of Oracle's cloud and have an ongoing dialogue that looks at that transformation. Once we hit that 0.345 years from now, right, that will be a wild success, Jeff. >>But really, it's been around for 135 years. This is our birthday, uh, this year and in that time, what we've learned is there's no substitute for impact and value added to our clients. In our perspective, what this would success looks like his client success find success means improved scalability of their operations, uh, securing their technology and their data at a substantially lower cost, so that they can focus on what their core businesses and focus less on technology. That success to deploy >>right guys, thanks so much. Great session We're not only witnessing the rebirth of Oracle Consulting, but there's clearly a transformation going on. And it's cultural. Gentlemen, congratulations on your partnership. And thanks so much for coming on the Cube. >>Thank you so much >>for having us. >>You're welcome. Alright, Keep right there, everybody. We're back with our next guest covering Oracle Consulting North America. This is Dave Vellante with the Cube. Thanks for watching. >>Yeah, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, >>yeah.

(upbeat music) >> Everybody, welcome to this special digital presentation where we're tracking the rebirth of Oracle Consulting. And my name is Dave Vellante, and we're here with Aaron Millstone who's the senior vice president of Oracle Consulting. Aaron, thanks for coming on, good to talk to you. >> Dave, appreciate you having me and I like the introduction of a rebirth of Oracle Consulting. >> Well, it really is I mean, you know, you guys have gone from staff augmentation to being much more of a strategic partner and we're going to talk about that. But I want to start with this theme that you have about empowering the autonomous enterprise. Sounds good, you know, nice little marketing tagline. But give us what's behind that, put some meat on the bone? >> Sure, so you know, what we define as autonomous enterprise is really using artificial intelligence, using machine learning and using it to cognitively understand your actual data and processes you're using for your enterprise. And then really embedding that into everything you're doing as a company, and using it to be both drive optimization and costs, and increasing revenue. And I know that's a lot of kind of consulting speak. So, we tend to think about what we've been talking about in terms of what we call tri-modal IT. This is probably the most exciting space that I've really thought through with my team, as we build up a new consulting business, you pull it out, but this is really about pivoting away from the systems of record and the systems of interaction, and really building up the systems of intelligence capabilities that we see all enterprises needing to invest in heavily, if they're not already investing there already. >> Well, I want to talk about a couple of things there. You know, one is that notion of lowering cost or increasing revenue and you're right people say, Oh, yeah, that's consultancy people, but a good consultant digs in and starts peeling the onion. Well, how do you actually make money? You know, where are the inefficiencies in your business? And that's really what you're talking about, and that's what every business wants to know, right? That's the end game, but the how to is really what separates the good consultants from the pack. >> Right right. And we're, you know, again, we're on this journey now, we've been, you mentioned it right. I'm two years into Oracle Consulting. Myself, I spent 23 plus years at Accenture, where I was a managing director with them and part of their North American leadership team. When I came over to Oracle consulting we did, we pivoted from what you called staff augmentation business to a basic set of offerings, which were things that you recognize right migration, services of workloads to cloud or integration or security work or even, step paths for SAS augmentation that we would do, but you know, pretty basic services. We're now pivoting again into sort of two areas infrastructure and transformation, which is really our bold costs take out play, as you just said, and sort of good consultants know how to do that. And really what that is, is we're going and looking at companies that still have traditional data centers, or maybe they've got some things on clouds, and something's still in traditional data centers. And we're coming in, and we're saying there's a business case here, that looks at your total cost of ownership. And we think we can take out between 40 and 65% of your run rate costs, and that's everything from, facilities, fire suppression systems, through to the actual compute cost, through to the labor that's required to do the physical hands on activities in the data center. So, we have that sort of capability and we're pushing customers hard in that space at the moment, and then driving that into a secondary conversation system and by the way, with all these savings, you kind of have to choices. You can pocket the savings, obviously or we would propose that you go into what we're calling the autonomous enterprise space, and really building up your artificial intelligence machine learning capability with centralized capabilities, centralized data, versus letting every line of business, every department do it on their own. >> Now, the other thing a good consultant does is they make the initiative self funding, and that's a win win you keep getting paid, the customer makes money, that's a good thing. But I like the idea, you're starting with the obvious business case of cost, and I think I heard you really attacking OPPEX, labor is obviously big component of that, but it's not just labor, and then you transition if they don't pocket the gain to a gain sharing going forward to look for new revenue. Did I get that I get that right? >> Yeah, you actually got that right. And actually, what I'll tell you too, is I think the labor piece, again, you know, I came from Accenture, Accenture is big outsourcing company, big technology consulting, big strategy consulting. You know, I went in for years and did pitches on outsourcing arrangements which were fundamentally lower cost bodies running in a more effective way. What we're finding or what I'm finding with customer conversations over the last two years at Oracle has been actually I think, data centers are not, there's nothing competitively advantageous about having a data center if you're a company, there is a lot of advantageous. There's an advantage to having cloud and what we're seeing is that companies that might have outsourced their data center are just the lowest cost provider are now considering insourcing or co-sourcing as they pivot the cloud. So the funny thing is actually labor savings is not the big driver of that 40 to 65%, that plays a role of course, that's how you get to the 65%. But even go into the 40% you can get there by insourcing your labor and bringing them in house and recognizing that the speed at which you can operate on your cloud gives you a competitive advantage. >> So this requires a whole new skill set for Oracle, you mentioned, you came in from Accenture where I talked to another number of other folks in Oracle's North America Consulting Operation that came from, brand name firms, we're going to be talking to Deloitte we have and will continue. So there I know, a big part of you talk about the skills transformation that you've affected inside of Oracle Consulting. >> Sure, yeah I mean, it started when I showed up. It was primarily a staff augmentation business in our commercial space in particular, you know, if you need a DBA, here's a DBA. If you need a SAS admin, here's a SAS admin. Here's the hourly rates and quite frankly, very, very talented group of people, very talented, but focused on doing, you know, sort of nuts and bolts level work, very deep work on the Oracle technology stack, but also weren't particularly cloud certified. So we started by focusing on getting the team certified in our cloud products, invested a ton of hours, thousands and thousands of hours in training. It takes you know, we're doing something like six months investment initially to get people up and certified on multiple cloud products that Oracle is selling. And then right from there, we started putting together our basic offerings, again moved from staff augmentation to saying, look, would you like to move a workload. To move a workload is going to cost a fixed price, whatever that is 100, $200,000 move away from rate card conversations with augmentation. And we shifted the commercial contracts that had payments based on outcomes so they don't move successfully, there's no payment. And so you know that was really the focus. >> I'm going to come back to this notion of gain sharing and particularly focus on the revenue side for a moment. You mentioned a what I'll call a buzzword tri-modal IT and a buzzword because Gartner kind of with bimodal IT popularized that concept. And I think part of the problem that people had with bimodal IT was kind of had the legacy systems of record and then you had all the new cool stuff, the big data and you know now AI and systems of engagement and so forth. And everybody wanted to go to the ladder and run away from the former. But now, if I understand tri-model IT, you're talking about bringing machine intelligence to both of those spheres such that people can stay current, stay relevant and add new value to their organization. >> Yeah, that's exactly it. And we're trying to bring it to both but we're trying to make it its own sphere, independent of the other two. So, again, as we looked at this consulting evolution, I didn't come over to Oracle and Oracle is not interested in us, creating a consulting business, that's a me too consulting business that kind of looks like whatever everyone else is doing. So the goal really was okay. So if we started with sort of staff augmentation, and you know, really Oracle's legacy, a system of record stuff, we sell big back office systems, we have mission critical databases. Like it's the clunky stuff that has to work, but really at the end of the day, that's our heritage, going over to the systems of interaction which is, where the bimodal IT really came in from Gartner. That's a pretty saturated place, so again, coming from the background, I had a consulting, I looked at all the eight design agencies that were out there that were all selling digital, and we looked at the digital sales tactics going on, we're like, well, that's pretty saturated, it's not really a smart place for us to go make a lot of headway into. And so we looked and said, well really, the next layer, the next evolution of IT is this third sphere systems of intelligence. And really, since Oracle is, our heritage is mission critical and data, fundamentally, the logical step for us was to go okay, systems intelligence are powered by data, and they serve artificial intelligence as the primary consumer. So again, our thought process was you have a system of record which is process centric and really geared towards the CFO or a head of HR, you have systems of interaction, which is really geared towards the users, it's trying to make business frictionless. Those users can be consumers, they can be employees, whomever. And then systems intelligence is around artificial intelligence is the primary consumer of it. I mean really pivoting to that, and then making that something that is pervasive and structurally place across both those other two spheres, really felt like where we should be differentiating. When I brought in the talent rate that we looked to bring in, we were getting kind of affirmation that, yeah, the best talent in the market was starting to see this trend and so we kind of knew we were onto something there. >> Yeah, I mean, that makes a lot of sense, because as you as you point out, some of those new workloads, many of them are very consumer oriented, that's kind of you know, not your wheelhouse. I mean, that's your customers are, selling to consumers, but Oracle's B2B, hardcore data mission critical. But let me ask you, to that make sets, but by your cloud, you were sort of a later entrant into cloud. So where does cloud fit into this? How do you respond to when customers say, yeah, but you know, you guys were late on the cloud. >> Yeah, we are definitely late coming to cloud, like there's no two ways about it. I mean, what we've got is we have what we call a Generation 2 Cloud. And I jokingly tell customers that we have a late mover advantage. And that late mover advantage basically means that we've looked at what the first generation clouds have done. And quite frankly, they're great at what they do, they're fierce competitors, they're tough to compete with, they've got a lot of mindshare, but they fundamentally were about targeting consumers, or targeting enterprise collaboration tools, so if you want cat videos, if you want to watch humorous videos that people filmed and posted on social media, those are great clouds for that stuff. But if you want really mission critical enterprise cloud workloads, that's where we come into play. And so when you start to look at really the key differentiators in our cloud and through out, at least this is how I describe it to customers. So, we look at sort of three layers, we have an autonomous capability both on our operating system and our database. What that basically means is that we have machine learning and artificial intelligence that's driving the key, administrative activities in our cloud, we then have our Exadata platform. So Exadata for us is a secret weapon, we think that it is a differentiator in our products. And so, Exadata for those watching that doesn't know what it is, so Exadata emerged out of the Sun acquisition that Oracle did. It is purpose built hardware that is engineered for our software products, specifically our databases. And now we've taken that concept and moved it into our cloud and so customers can come in and take very intensive enterprise, mission critical workloads, run them straight in our cloud. And then, when we look at the last point, it's probably security where, again, we have total segmentation of our security layers from the customer workloads. So again, we've taken the concepts that first generation cloud providers have implemented, and they've scaled it globally. So it's really tough for them to walk back on it, it's a huge investment and we're now gone into a Generation 2 Cloud and quite frankly, I think that's what this is the frontier that everyone's racing to kind of grab. >> You know, we actually in our community, talk to a lot of Exadata customers and they get very intense, they do some really hardcore things with with Exadata. To me, the key to your cloud strategy, and specifically Exadata is you've got the same exact infrastructure, control plane, data plane, software, either on prem or in the cloud. So that's your same same narrative. But the real key, new key anyway is what autonomous, tell me if you agree with this. What autonomous gives you a scale, because as you say, you're related to cloud, you're not a hyper scalar in that sense, you're not selling just, race to the bottom infrastructure as a service. You're bringing applications and mission critical applications, so eponymous gives you the ability to scale and compete more effectively with some of those other, earlier movers. You buy that? >> Yeah, absolutely. So scaling and scaling in terms of, what has been historically human activities, when I say human activities, we're not replacing the humans, we're making some of the human activities that were highly repetitive way more efficient. So easy example I can give you is patching. Like security(mumbles) bases are very time consuming, I've talked to customers as recently as a couple weeks ago, that are three years behind on their patching. And when I look at that, it's you're like, why wouldn't you consider autonomous, they have their board of directors and their auditors are actually now demanding that they do something different about their patching problems. And they're talking about, man months, people months of trying to roll out this patching, and they're worried about breaking stuff, and they're worried about human error. Like when you look at something like autonomous, that patching would take place, pretty much instantaneous with no downtime. And we've seen it in our own cloud and our own services internally and we're able to patch, thousands and thousands of cores very, very quickly. >> So we got to wrap but I wanted to close on sort of the, I mean, again, we talked about good consultants and good consultants have continuous improvement mindset. They got a North star that they really never get through and that keeps moving because you got to keep innovating, you got to keep disrupting yourself, so maybe you could end by sort of talking about some of the things you're watching, some of the milestones you want to hit and some of that transformation that you want to keep going. How are you going to achieve that? >> Yeah, and it will skip some of it, when we hit the Deloitte segment too, but like we're definitely we've moved from, we've definitely move from the staff augmentation to basic offerings. We're now beyond that we're starting to sell the infrastructure lead transformation plays. What's exciting to me about that with our customers is, you know, Oracle's a big complex enterprise, as you'd expect with a company that has a tremendous amount of technology. We're now bringing holistic approaches to our customer say, let us help you optimize everything end to end, let's look at your data center, let's not look at a narrow slice, let's not look at just SAS admins and DBAs, we're looking at things comprehensively. So moving there has been a pretty big milestone for us to hit, we've started to get some good momentum with our customers. Our next milestone is really going to be taking that autonomous enterprise and blowing it out. We're in use case and incubation period right now with that, but again we've got some, I would argue we have the best talent in the world right now that thinks about this stuff and not just thinks about it from a pure technology standpoint, but thinks about how to actually make it effective for the business. And so once we get some of those motions going, like the use case for the autonomous enterprise that's artificial intelligence driven, it should have a continuous pace of change, and it's going to start to evolve in areas that you know, quite frankly, we can't even predict yet. But we're excited to see where it leads. >> Alright, thanks for spending some time with us. I am very excited to talk about that sort of collision course between your deep tech capabilities as Oracle as a product company and this, the Global SI, Deloitte, we're going to bring in those guys in a moment. So thanks very much for taking us through the transformation and great job, good luck. >> Thank you, appreciate it. >> All right, and thank you, everybody for watching. Keep right there, we'll be back with more coverage of Oracle's transformation. Right after the short break, you're watching the CUBE. (upbeat music)

>> Narrator: From the cube studios in Palo Alto in Boston, it's the Cube, covering empowering the autonomous enterprise brought to you by Oracle Consulting. >> Everybody. Welcome back to this special digital presentation where we are tracking the transformation of Oracle Consulting. Aaron millstone is back, he's the senior vice president of Oracle Consulting. He's joined by Jeff Davis, who's the principal at Deloitte. He's the chief Commercial Officer for Oracle at Deloitte. Gentlemen, good to see you, welcome. We see a lot of these deals. Sometimes we call them Barney deals, you know, I love you, you love me, there's a press release and that's it. But so one of the things we look for okay, is their teeth behind this? So you guys have come up with with what you call elevate. What is elevate? How did it get started? And I have some follow up questions. >> Well, elevate, really got started when Aaron and I started to look at the assets that each of the firms possessed. On the Deloitte side as Aaron suggested, we have deep capabilities and a broad range of technologies, some of them competing technologies with Oracle. At the same time, we didn't have a great deal of depth in Oracle's technical products, Oracle Cloud infrastructure, and Oracle autonomous. Our bench was not as big as Aaron's. And Aaron also had access to Oracle development at a level that we didn't have access to. So we really found ourselves in a situation where we could put those two capabilities together, and we could offer something to our clients and the broad range of Oracle customers in the field. They had access to all of the Deloitte's capabilities which include great project management, great change management, real skill around the strategic aspects of cloud migration. And Aaron had tools and had resources trained and developed around the latest Oracle Technology, they'd always be a step ahead of any SI. So together, we felt this was really a differentiation for marketplace. >> One of the things we look forward there, is there any other integration? Are you doing co-engineering? In this case maybe not co-engineering, but are there tools that you're developing that you're taking to market that you're actually leveraging? Aaron, can you talk about that a little bit and convince us that's not just the sales play? >> Yeah, sure. And Jeff alluded to some of this earlier too, right. So we definitely each had our respective tooling, right on Deloitte investments and tools. One was called ATADATA that we've seen use quite a few times now. We've invested in something we called Oracle Soar. You know, our tools are, as you'd imagine, heavily Oracle focused it's about moving Oracle technology to Oracle Cloud, ATADATA and some of the tools that Deloitte invested in are focused more comprehensively on holistically it looking at everything in a data center and everything that's across data centers and starts to develop a set of facts around this stuff. But in both cases, we actually looked at these things. And we said, "You know what if you combine these together, "we get a very comprehensive view of what exactly "it is that we're looking at with a customer". So we can tell everything from the types of traffic we see in the network to the specific versions of stuff, we can start to identify whether there's risk associated with having things not past or out of supporter, but get a very comprehensive view that's based on facts. And so you know, we took those tools and we've combined them together so that we can go into a customer and give a complete end to end view from both an Oracle and Deloitte perspective and quite frankly, it doesn't matter whether Deloitte leads or whether Oracle leads we've developed these tools together we're going to market together and we've even got you know, the templates you'd expect consultancies to have, right? So when you look at business cases, we've got joined business case templates that we've created together and that we're using actively with customers, and therefore then we're refining them and improving them each time we do it. But you know, we're at a point now where our tools are combined, our templates are combined. And we even at this you know, we were even Jeff and I were on a call earlier, yesterday actually we even got a joint, a war room that's constantly engaging with different account teams making sure that we structurally approach things in a consistent way so that we're driving business value and using the tools appropriately. >> Aaron you and I have talked about you know, data centers and building data centers and investing. It's not just it's just not a good use of capital today. There's so many other things that organizations can do. You guys have identified data center consolidation as a call it a, you know, an initiative that you're seeing customers. I wonder if we could talk about that a little bit. Is that kind of a starting point for conversations? >> Yeah, it's well it's definitely starting point right. So we call it a referred to as infrastructure lead transformation. And appetite, the appetite for that is certainly high. We were seeing an increased focus on you know, what do customers need to do to take not just a workload here and there but how do they get out of the data center business holes? So it's sort of it's a foregone conclusion, right? Like you just said, it's not really a question of should we invest in another data center? Or should we invest in up to in our data centers? The question has changed to let's move to cloud, how do we get there? And let's move in a big way. And that's, we're seeing that dialogue across all of our customers. And quit frankly, even for Oracle, it's been a learning curve for us, right? We started with an Oracle workload conversation, which is you want to move this Oracle workloads to Oracle's cloud, you want to move that Oracle workload over to cloud. And really what we're finding is it's a wholesale transformation of everything in a data center to one or more clouds right again, often, it's a multi cloud strategy and that's okay. And we you know, we were having more bigger conversations. The thing that has been really interesting as these conversations have evolved, and especially as we work with our partners at Deloitte, has been that, you know, we think that the combination of our cloud technology, the consulting services that Oracle consulting and Deloitte can bring to bear. And then Oracle's ability to finance the whole deal makes some very compelling conversations for customers, because you can walk in to a CIO to a CFO and say, Look on day one, you can actually have a lower spend than what you have today in your data center, and get a cloud transformation underway at the same time. >> Let's talk a little bit more about that business case. Is that generally what you're seeing where it starts is let's take some costs right out and then Aaron, you and I talked about maybe investing that in the future but is that really the starting point for the vast majority of customers? Let's cut some costs right away and get a payback immediately? >> So I'd like to share our perspective. Which is, you know, nobody spends money for the sake of spending money on technology, it's got to have meaningful business value. So the conversation starts with really renewable and a path to the cloud. But there's a natural opportunity for savings in consolidation that we take advantage. We're not simply shifting from your hardware to the cloud. We're actually modernizing, which will result in significant savings. But it also gives the business something that they don't have today had at a level of security and scalability and ability to run modern technology. Much faster, much better, and much more scalable. >> Jeff, can you give us a sense as to how far you're into this elevate journey, maybe thinking about a couple of customer sizer specifically or generically, kind of where you're at with them? How far along maybe even some examples that you feel are representative. >> Sure, you know, the relationship has been probably about six, close to seven months of maturity. In that time, we've had an opportunity to work on several key clients at scale. We've worked together in collaboration on one of the nation's largest retailers in the grocery business. We've worked collaboratively in aerospace and defense, and also in the hospitality industry. In these cases, what we're finding and one is each one is in a various stage of maturity. One is done, one is in midstream, and one is at the early stages. And current economic conditions we're driving a huge pipeline right now. I think our challenge right now is making sure that we identify those clients that can best take value, take advantage of our services and our joint offering to deal with that pipeline right now. What we're finding is that the savings are at least as we projected. In some cases, we're finding even more what people say they have and what people say they do isn't necessarily what you find when you get in there. And but almost every case, we're finding that there's unused equipment, unused capacity, that they currently have redundancy, low utilization of their current assets. We can go a long way in streamlining that. Plus, I can't emphasize enough that these days security is a major concern. And we're adding a layer of security that they could never achieve themselves with soft. >> How do you guys and how to customers want to approach the transaction is it a fixed fee? Is that a TNM? Is it a situation where you participate in some of the savings or the gain? How does the pricing work? >> I'll start off by saying, each deal is really custom built around what a customer really needs. What they're trying to get out of it. Right now as an example, Op-X is very important. So we're engineering deals in a way that helps customers deal with their financial challenges, especially around Op-X. There are other structures that we can put in place. We have the backing of Oracle finance, so we can be very innovative on deals. They can be when value is attained, they can be milestone based. There's just I think, a wide variety. I don't want to say unlimited, but a wide variety of different options that we can offer our clients in order to be able to deal with whatever financial challenge or opportunity they may be looking at. >> What does success look like? You know, when you sort of you know, just less than a year in, when you're two, three, four let's say five years in and you look back, what does success look like Aaron? >> So to me successful, success is going to look like we've gotten a number of these big transformation deals in play. It's in motion naturally between our organizations not necessarily driven entirely by Jeff and I going out and driving organizational behavior right away. It's more in our DNA. But more importantly, I think we've gone into, we've gone beyond the conversation of let's move workloads we've gone into conversations of let's really talk about how to reimagine your business on top of Oracle's cloud, and have an ongoing dialogue that looks at that transformation. Once we hit that point three, four or five years from now, right, that'll be a wild success Michael. >> Jeff final comment. Deloitte has been around for 175 years. This is our birthday this year and in that time, What we've learned is there's no substitute for impact and value added to our clients. In our perspective, what success looks like is client success. Find success means improved scalability of their operations. Securing their technology and their data at a substantially lower cost, so that they can focus on what their core business is, and focus less on technology, that success to Deloitte. >> Great, guys, thanks so much. Great session, we're not only witnessing the rebirth of Oracle consulting, but there's clearly a transformation going on. And it's cultural. Gentlemen, congratulations on your partnership. And thanks so much for coming in the cube. >> Thank you so much. >> Thanks for having us.

>>from the Cube Studios in Palo Alto and Boston. It's the Cube covering empowering the autonomous enterprise brought to you by Oracle Consulting. >>Welcome to the special digital presentation where we're tracking the rebirth of Oracle Consulting. And my name is Dave Vellante. And we're here with Aaron Millstone. Who's the senior vice president of Oracle Consulting? Aaron, thanks for coming on. Good to talk to you. >>They appreciate you having me, and I like the introduction of the river. >>Well, it really is. I mean, you know, you guys have gone from staff augmentation to being much more of a strategic partner, and we're gonna talk about that. But I want to start with this team that you have about empowering the autonomous enterprise. It sounds good, you know, nice little marketing tag line, but give us give us what's behind that. Put some meat on the bone. >>Sure, So you know what we define is that time in this enterprise is really using artificial intelligence, using machine learning and using it to cognitively understand your actual data and processes using for enterprise and then really embedding that into everything you're doing as a company and using both Dr optimization and costs and increasing revenue. And I know that's a lot of kind of consulting to speak. So you know, we tend to think about and we've been talking about in terms of what we call try motile i t. And it's Ah, this is probably the most exciting space that I've really thought through with with my team as we build up a new consulting business, you pointed out. But this is really about pivoting away from, you know, the systems of record and the systems of interaction, and really building up the systems of intelligence capabilities that we see it all enterprises needing to invest in heavily if they're not already investing there early. >>Well, I want I want talk about a couple of things there. One is that notion of lowering costs and increasing revenue. And you're right, people say, Oh, yeah, that's insulting Speak. But good consultant digs in. It starts peeling the onion. Well, how do you How do you actually make money? You know, where are the inefficiencies in your business? And that's really what you're talking about. And that's what every business wants to know, right? Is is not. That's the end game. But the how to is really what separates the good consultants from the pack. >>Yeah, right. And we're again. We're on this journey now. We've been, you know, you mentioned it right where I'm two years into Oracle consulting myself. I spent 23 plus years at Accenture when I was a managing director with them in part of their North America leadership team. When I came over to work something we did, we pivoted from what you called staff augmentation business to a basic set of offerings which were things that you recognize right migration, services of workloads to cloud or integration of security where you know, even ah ah ah It has for SAS augmentation that we would do But, you know, pretty basic services. We're now pivoting again into sort of two areas. Infrastructure led transformation, which is really our old costs Take out play a Z You just said and sort of good consultants know how to do that. And really, what that is is we're going. I'm looking at companies that still have traditional data centers. Or maybe they've got some things on clouds and some things that still in traditional data centers and we're coming in and we're saying there's a business case here. It looks at your total cost of ownership, and we think we can take out between 40 and 65% of your run rate bus. And that's everything from, you know, facilities, fire suppression systems through to the actual compute costs through to the labor that's required to, you know, do the physical hands on activities in the data center. Right. So, you know, we have that sort of capability, and we're pushing customers hard in that space at the moment. And then driving that into a secondary conversations is, And by the way, with all these savings, you kind of have two choices, right? You can pocket the savings, obviously, or right, we would propose that you go into what we're calling the condoms enterprise space and really building up your artificial intelligence machine learning capability with centralized capabilities. Central as data versus letting every line of business every department do it >>on their own. >>So to me. But let me ask you, does that make sense? But why your cloud? You were sort of ah later entrance into cloud. So where does cloud fit into this How do you respond to a customer? Say Yeah, but you know, you guys relate. Well, >>yeah, we are. We are definitely late coming to cloud, right? There's no no two ways about it. I mean, what we to what we've got is we have what we call a generation too. And, you know, I jokingly tell customers that we have a late mover advantage and that late mover advantage basically means that we've looked at what the first generation clouds have done and, quite frankly, there they're great at what they do. They're fierce competitors. They're tough to compete with. They've got a lot of mindshare, but they fundamentally we're about targeting consumers or targeting enterprise collaboration tools. Right? So if you want cat videos, if you want to watch you humorous videos that people filmed and posted on social media was a great clouds for that stuff. But if you want really mission critical enterprise cloud workloads, right? That's where we come into play. And so when you start to look at really the key differentiators in our cloud and you know fraud, these this is how I describe it, asked me. Right. So you know, we look at sort of three layers. We have an autonomous capability, both in our operating system or database. What that basically means is that we have machine learning and artificial intelligence that's driving the key, you know, administrative activities in our cloud. We then have our exit data platform. So exit data for us is a secret weapon, right? We we think that it is a differentiator in our products. And so, you know, exit data for those for those watching that don't know what it is, right? So exit data emerged out of the sun acquisition that work well did. It is purpose built hardware that is engineered for our software products, specifically about databases. And now we've taken that concept and moved it into our cloud. And so, you know, customers can come in and take very intensive enterprise mission Critical workloads run him straight in our cloud. And then, you know, when we look at the last point, it's probably security. Where again we have total segmentation of our security layers that from the customer workloads, right. So again, we've we've taken the concepts that first generation cloud providers have implemented, and they scale it globally. So it's really tough for them to walk back on it. It's a huge investment and we're have gone into a generation to cloud, and quite frankly, that's I think that's what this is, the frontier that you know. Everyone's racing to kind of crack, >>So we got to wrap. But I want to close on sort of the again. We're talking about good consultants and good consultants have continuous improvement mindset. They got a North Star that they really never get doing that that keeps moving because you got to keep innovating. You gotta keep disrupting yourself. So maybe you could end by sort of talking about some of the things you're watching, some of the milestones you want to hit and some of that transformation that you want to keep going. How are you gonna achieve that? >>Yeah, we'll get some of that. We hit the Deloitte segment too, right? But we're definitely we've moved from. We've definitely moved from, you know, the staff augmentation to offer it to basic offerings. We're now beyond that. We're starting to sell the infrastructure led transformation plays. What's exciting to me about that with our customers is you know, Oracle is a big complex and impress, as you'd expect with, you know, >>a >>company that has a tremendous amount of technology. We're now bringing holistic approaches to our customers. They let us help you optimize everything, and then let's look at your data center. That's not look at a narrow slice. Let's not look at just sys, admin and DBS. We're looking at things comprehensively, so moving there has been a pretty big milestone for us to hit. We started to get some good momentum with our customers. Our next milestone is really gonna be taking that on time center present, blowing it out. We're in use case, an incubation period right now with that, But again, we've got some. I would argue we have the best talent in the world right now that thinks about this stuff and not not just thinking about it from a pure technology stand point, but things about how to actually make it effective for the business. And so once we get some of those motions going >>to >>take the use case for the autonomous enterprise, that's artificial intelligence driven. It should have a continuous pace of change, and it's going to start to evolve in areas that. You know, quite frankly, we can't even predict yet, but we're excited to see where it leads. >>Well, thanks for spending some time with us. I am very excited to talk about that sort of collision course between your deep tech capabilities as Oracle as a product company and this global aside deployed, we're gonna We're gonna bring in those guys in a moment. But so thanks very much for taking us through the transformation and great job. Good luck. >>Thank you. Appreciate it. >>Alright. And thank you, everybody for watching. Keep it right there. We'll be back with more coverage of Oracle's transformation. Right after this short break, you're watching the cube?

>> Narrator: From the Cube Studios in Palo Alto and Boston, it's the Cube, covering empowering the autonomous enterprise, brought to you by Oracle Consulting. >> Hi everybody, welcome back to this special digital presentation where we are tracking the transformation of Oracle Consulting. Aaron Millstone is back, he's the Senior Vice President of Oracle Consulting and he's joined by Jeff Davis whose Principal at Deloitte, he's the Chief Commercial Officer for Oracle at Deloitte. Gentlemen, good to see you, welcome. We see a lot of these deals, sometimes we call them Barney deals, you know, I love you, you love me, there's a press release and that's it. But, so one of the things we look for, okay, is there teeth behind this? Now, you guys have come up with what you call Elevate. What is Elevate, how did it get started? Then I have some follow up questions. >> Well, Elevate really got started when Aaron and I started to look at the assets that each of the firms possessed. On the Deloitte side as Aaron suggested, we have deep capabilities and a broad range of technologies. Some of them could be technologies with Oracle. At the same time, we didn't have a great deal of depth in Oracle's technical products, Oracle Cloud infrastructure and Oracle Autonomous. Our bench was not as big as Aaron's. And Aaron also had access to Oracle development at a level that we didn't have access to. So we really found ourselves in a situation where we could put those two capabilities together and we could offer something to our clients. And the broad rage of Oracle customers in the field, they had access to all of Deloitte's capabilities, which include great project management, great change management, real skill around the strategic aspects of cloud migration and Aaron had tools and had resources trained and developed around the latest Oracle technology. They'd always be a step ahead of any SI. So together we felt this was really a differentiation for the market place. >> One of the things we look for, is there any other integration? Are you doing co-engineering? In this case maybe not co-engineering, but are there tools that you're developing that you're taking to market that you're actually leveraging? Aaron, can you talk about that a little bit and convince us it's not just a sales play? >> Yeah, sure, and Jeff eluded to some of this earlier too, right. So, we definitely each had our respective tool line, right? Deloitte's investments and tools, one of them's called ATADATA, that we've seen used quite a few times now. We've invested in something we called Oracle Soar. You know, our tools are, as you'd imagine, heavily Oracle focused. It's about moving Oracle technology to Oracle cloud. ATADATA and some of the tools that Deloitte's invested in are focused more comprehensively on wholistically at looking at everything in a data center and everything that's across data centers and start to develop a set of facts around this stuff. But in both cases we actually looked at these things and we said, you know what if you combine these together, we get a very comprehensive view of what exactly it is that we're looking at with a customer. So we can tell everything from the types of traffic we see on the network, to the specific versions of stuff. We can start to identify whether there's risk associated with having things not patched or out of support, but again a very comprehensive view that's based on facts. And so, you know, we took those tools and we combined them together so that we can go in to a customer and give a complete end to end view from both an Oracle and Deloitte perspective. And quite frankly it doesn't matter whether Deloitte leads or whether Oracle leads, we've developed these tools together, we're going to market together, and we've even got, you know, the templates you'd expect consultancies to have right? So when you look at business cases, we've got joint business case templates that we've created together and that we're using actively with customers and then we're refining them and improving them each time we do it. But, you know, we're at a point now where our tools are combined, our templates are combined and we even at this, you know, we were even- Jeff and I were on a call earlier, yesterday actually, we even got a joint war room that's constantly engaging with different account teams and making sure that we structurally approach things in a consistent way so that we're driving business value and using the tools appropriately. >> Aaron you and I have talked about, you know, data centers and building data centers and investing; it's just not a good use of capital today. There are so many other things that organizations can do. You guys have identified data center consolidation as, I'll call it a you know, an initiative that you're seeing customers. I wondered if you could talk about that a little bit, is that kind of a starting point for conversations? >> Yeah, well it's definitely a starting point. So we call it and refer to it as infrastructure lead transformation and the appetite for that is certainly high. We're seeing an increased focus on you know, what do customers need to do to take not just a workload here and there, but how to they get out of the data center business hole? So it's sort of, it's a forgone conclusion. Like you just said, it's not really a question of should we invest in another data center, or should we invest in up-tooling our data centers? The question has changed to, let's move to cloud, how do we get there? And let's move in a big way. And that's, we're seeing that dialogue across all of our customers. And quite frankly, even for Oracle, it's been a learning curve for us, right? We started with an Oracle workload conversation, which is: do you want to move this Oracle workload to Oracle's cloud? Do you want to move that Oracle workload to Oracle's cloud? And really what we're finding is it's a wholesale transformation of everything in a data center to one or more clouds right? Again, often it's a multicloud strategy and that's okay. And we, you know, we're having more-bigger conversations. The thing that has been really interesting is these conversations have evolved and especially as we work with our partners at Deloitte, has been that, you know, we think that the combination of our cloud technology, the consulting services that Oracle consulting and Deloitte can bring to bear and then Oracle's ability to finance the whole deal, makes some very compelling conversations for customers cause you can walk in to a CIO, to a CFO and say look on day one, you can actually have a lower spend than what you have today in your data center, and get a cloud transformation on Deloitte at the same time. >> Let's talk a little bit more about that business case. Is that generally what you're seeing where it starts as let's take some costs right out? And then, Aaron, you and I talked about maybe investing that in the future, but is that really the starting point for the vast majority of customers? Let's cut some costs right away and get a payback immediately? >> So I'd like to share our perspective which is, you know, nobody spends money for the sake of spending money on technology. It's got to have meaningful business value. So the conversation starts with really renewal and a path to the cloud, but there's a natural opportunity for savings and consolidation that we take advantage. We're not simply shifting from your hardware to the cloud. We're actually modernizing, which will result in significant savings. But it also gives the business something that they don't have today at a level of security and scalability. An ability to run modern technology much faster, much better, and much more scalable. >> Jeff could you give us a sense as to how far you're into this elevate journey maybe thinking about a couple of customers either specifically or generically, you know, where you're at with them, how far along, maybe even some examples that you feel are representative. >> Sure, you know, the, the relationship has been probably about six, close to seven months of maturity. In that time we've had an opportunity to work on several key clients at scale. We've worked together in collaboration on one of the nation's largest retailers in the grocery business. We've worked collaboratively in aerospace and defense, And also in the hospitality industry. In these cases, what we're finding, and one is, each one is in a various stage of maturity. One is done, one is in midstream, and one is at the early stages. And current economic conditions are driving a huge pipeline right now. I think our challenge right now is making sure that we identify those clients that can best take advantage of our services and our joint offering to deal with that pipeline right now. What we're finding is that the savings are at least as we've projected, in some cases we're finding even more. What people say they have and what people say they do isn't necessarily what you find when you get in there. But almost every case, we're finding that there's unused equipment, unused capacity that they currently have, redundancy, low utilization of their current assets. We can go a long way in streamlining that, plus, I can't emphasize enough that, these days, security is a major concern. And we're adding a layer of security that they could never achieve themselves. I'll start off by saying each deal is really custom built around what a customer really needs, what they're trying to get out of it. Right now, as an example, OPEX is very important. So we're engineering deals in a way that helps customers deal with their financial challenges, especially around OPEX. There are other structures that we can put in place. We have the backing of Oracle finance, so we can be very innovative on deals. They can be when value is attained, they can be milestone based. There's just, I think, a wide variety, I don't want to say unlimited, but a wide variety of different options that we can offer our clients in order to be able to deal with whatever financial challenge or opportunity they may be looking at. >> What does success look like, you know, when you were, you know, just less than a year in. When you're two, three, four, let's say five years in and you look back, what does success look like, Aaron? >> So to me success will, success is going to look like we've gotten a number of these big transformation deals in play, it's in motion naturally between our organizations, not necessarily driven entirely by Jeff and I going out and driving the organizations to behave the right way, it's more in our DNA. But more importantly, I think we've gone into, we've gone beyond the conversation of let's move workloads and we've gone into conversations of let's really talk about how to reimagine your business on top of Oracle's cloud and have an ongoing dialogue that looks at that transformation. Once we hit that point, three, four, five years from now, that'll be a wild success in my book. >> Jeff? Final thoughts. >> Deloitte's been around for 175 years, this is our birthday, this year. And in that time what we've learned is there's no substitute for impact and value added to our clients. In our perspective, what success looks like is client's success, client's success means improved scalability of their operations, securing their technology and their data at a substantially lower cost, so that they can focus on what their core business is and focus less on technology. That's success to Deloitte. >> Great Guys thanks so much, great session. We're not only witnessing the rebirth of Oracle consulting, but there's clearly a transformation going on and it's cultural. Gentlemen, congratulations on your partnership and thanks so much for coming in theCUBE. >> Thank you so much. >> Thanks for having us.

>> Announcer: From theCUBE studios in Palo Alto and Boston, it's the theCUBE, covering Empowering the Autonomous Enterprise, brought to you by Oracle Consulting. >> Welcome to this special digital presentation, where we're tracking the rebirth of Oracle Consulting, and my name is Dave Vellante and we're here with Aaron Millstone who's the Senior Vice President of Oracle Consulting. Aaron thanks for coming on good to talk to you. >> Dave, appreciate you having me, and I like the introduction of the rebirth of Oracle Consulting. >> Well it really is. I mean you guys have gone from staff augmentation to being a much more of a strategic partner, and we're going to talk about that, but I want to start with this theme that you have about empowering the autonomous enterprise. Sounds good, you know, nice little marketing tagline, but give us what's behind that, put some meat on the bone. >> Sure, right, so what we define as the autonomous enterprise is really using artificial intelligence, using machine learning and using it to cognitively understand your actual data and process you're using for your enterprise, and then really embedding that into everything you're doing as a company, and using it to do both drive optimization of costs and increasing revenue. And I know that's a lot of kind of consultey speak, so we tend to think about, and we've been talking about in terms of what we call tri-modal IT, and this is probably the most exciting space that I've really thought through with my team as we've built up a new consulting business, you pointed out. But this is really about pivoting away from the systems of record and the systems of interaction, and really building up the systems of intelligence capabilities that we see all enterprises needing to invest in heavily, if they're not already investing there currently. >> Well I want to talk about a couple of things here. One is that notion of lowering cost or increasing revenue, and you're right, people say oh yeah that's consultant speak but a good consultant digs in and starts peeling the onion. Well how do you actually make money? Where are the inefficiencies in your business? And that's really what you're talking about, and that's what every business wants to know, right? That's the end game, but the how-to is really what separates the good consultants from the bad. >> Correct, correct. And again, we're on this journey now. You mentioned it right, I'm two years into Oracle Consulting. Myself, I spent 23 plus years at Accenture, where I was a Managing Director with them, and part of their North American leadership team. When I came over to Oracle Consulting, we did, we pivoted from what you call staff augmentation business to a basic set of offerings which were things that's you'd recognize, right, migration services of workloads to cloud, or integration of security work, or you know, even paths for SaaS augmentation that we would give, but pretty basic services. We're now pivoting again into two areas, infrastructure-led transformation, which is really our bold costs take-out play, as you just said, and sort of good consultants know how to do that. and really what that is, is we're going and looking at companies that still have traditional data centers or maybe they've got some things on clouds and some things still in traditional data centers, and we're coming in and we're saying there's a business case here, that looks at your total cost of ownership, and we think we can take out between 40 and 65% of your run-rate costs, and that's everything from facilities, fire suppression systems, through to the actual compute costs, through to the labor that's required to do the physical or hands-on activities in the data center, right. So we have that sort of capability, and we're pushing customers hard in that space at the moment, and then driving that into a secondary conversation which says and by the way, all these savings, you kind of have two choices, right. You can pocket the savings, obviously, or we would propose that you go into what we're calling the autonomous enterprise phase, and really building up your artificial intelligence machine learning capability with centralized capabilities, centralized data, versus letting every line of business, every department do it on their own. >> So let me ask you, so that makes sense, but why your cloud? You were sort of later entrants into cloud. So where does cloud fit into this? How do you respond when customers say, "Yeah but you guys were late coming to cloud"? >> Yeah we are definitely late coming to cloud. There's no two ways about it. I mean, what we've got is we have what we call a generation two cloud. And I jokingly tell customers that we have a late mover advantage, and that late mover advantage basically means that we've looked at what the first generation clouds have done, and quite frankly they're great at what they do, they're fierce competitors, they're tough to compete with, they've got a lot of mind share, but they fundamentally were about targeting consumers, who are targeting enterprise collaboration tools. So if you want cat videos, if you want to watch humorous videos that people have filmed and posted on social media, those are great clouds for that stuff, but if you want really mission-critical enterprise cloud workloads, that's were we come into play. And so when you start to look at really the key differentiators in our cloud, at least this is how I describe it to our customers right, so we look at sort of three layers. We have an autonomous capability, in both our operating system and our database. What that basically means is that we have machine learning and artificial intelligence that's driving the key administrative activities in our cloud. We then have then our Exadata platform. So Exadata for us is a secret weapon. We think that it is a core differentiator in our products. And so, Exadata, for those watching that don't necessarily know what it is, right, so Exadata emerged out of the Sun acquisition that Oracle did. It is purpose-built hardware that is engineered for our software products, specifically our databases, and now we've taken that concept and moved it into our cloud. And so customers can come in and take very intensive enterprise mission-critical workloads, run them straight in our cloud. And then, when we look at the last point, it's product security, where, again, we have total segmentation of our security layers from the customer workloads, right. So again, we've taken the concepts that first generation cloud providers have implemented, and they've scaled it globally so it's really tough for them to walk back from it, it's a huge investment. And we're, have gone into a generation two cloud and quite frankly, I think this is the frontier that everyone's racing to kind of crack. >> So we've got to wrap, but I wanted to close on sort of the, again we've talked about good consultants and good consultants have continuous improvement mindset. They got a north star that they never really get to and that keeps moving, because you've got to keep innovating, you've got to keep disrupting yourself. So maybe you could end by talking about some of the things you're watching, some of the milestones you want to hit, and some of that transformation that you want to keep going. How are you going to achieve that? >> Yeah we'll get some of it when we hit the Deloitte segment too right, but we're definitely, we've moved from, we've definitely moved from the staff augmentation to basic offerings. We're now beyond that. We're starting to sell the infrastructure-led transformation plays. What's exciting to me about that with our customers is, Oracle's a big complex enterprise, as you'd expect with a company that has a tremendous amount of technology. We're now bringing holistic approaches to our customers, saying "Let us help you optimize everything "and let's look at your data center". Let's not look at a narrow slice, let's not look at sysadmins and DBAs. We're looking at things comprehensively. So moving there has been a pretty big milestone for us to hit. We've started to get some good momentum with our customers. Our next milestone is really going to be taking that autonomous enterprise and blowing it out. We're in use case and incubation period right now with that, but again, we've got some, I would argue we have the best talent in the world right now that thinks about this stuff, and not just thinks about it from a computer technology standpoint, but thinks about how to actually to make it effective for the business. And so once we get some of those motions going, the use case for the autonomous enterprise, that's artificial intelligence driven. It should have a continuous pace of change, and it's going to start to evolve in areas that, quite frankly, we can't even predict yet, but we're excited to see where it leads. >> Well Aaron, thanks for spending some time with us. I am very excited to talk about that sort of collision course between your deep tech capabilities as Oracle as a product company, and the global SI, Deloitte, we're going to bring in those guys in a moment. So thanks very much for taking us through the transformation, and great job, good luck. >> Thank you, appreciate it. >> All right, and thank you everybody for watching. Keep it right there, we'll be back with more coverage of Oracle's transformation right after this short break. You're watching theCUBE. (gentle electronic music)