>> Announcer: Live from Manhattan, it's theCUBE covering AWS Summit New York City 2017. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services. >> Welcome back live to Midtown Manhattan, along with Stu Miniman, I am John Walls. We're here on theCUBE and we're wrapping up our coverage here at AWS Summit. Again, kind of tough to get a feeling for just how many folks were here. But some were in that seven, eight, $9,000 range and most of them are still here I think, out on the show floor here behind us. Good keynotes this morning. Good programming throughout the day as well and then really good buzz here on the show floor. So, good day I think, for AWS Stu, and we've talked about it, it is kind of remarkable to see the number of people who turned out for a regional show. >> Yeah John, you know I've been to some shows in the Javits Center where people wander in, they get some swag, they look for a free beer and a t-shirt and then that's kind of their... These people are, you know, kind of diggin' in. I know there's a bunch of sessions been going on. The pavilion here has had all these little breakout sessions. There was one on, you know, VMware and VMware and AWS and it was, you know, not only the seats, which usually it was like oh come on in, you know, come get a prize and things like that. >> John: Right, right. >> There was five rows of people standing pressed in and asking questions like, "How do I set up "the networking on this, how does this work?" Things like this, so it's like a mini AWS re:Invent, so their big show, one we've done theCUBE at a number of years, I've been there a number of years. I commented on our intro that this is larger than the first Amazon re:Invent that I went to like four years ago. >> How about that, in that short of period of time? >> Yeah and that's one of the things about Amazon and public Cloud in general and all of these technologies, the growth and the speed of change is just amazing. It used to be we talked from a software standpoint, it was like okay, I'm tied to that Intel release of every 18 months that I'm going to click out, then it was like okay, we kind of go to a yearly cycle. Now it was more like well not only is a lot of software released, you know, continuous integration and continuous deployment CICD, which sometimes it's every six weeks, sometimes it's daily, but Amazon's releasing new features every day. We talked in the intro, oh there were three major releases and we had the guy I'm talking about, the machine learning stuff and he's like oh you mean the three announcements that we had in machine learning? And we're like oh, we only heard about one of those. Wait, you had a couple others underneath there? Oh, let's talk about the F1 compute instance and the FPGAs. There's always so much in Amazon and when you go into any environment in the little boxes that they put in there and you start peeling the onion, it's impressive. >> It is. >> And there's just depth and customers are interested in it and people are using it. You know, I was used to so much in my career where something gets announced and a year later it's like hello, is anybody using this? As opposed to at this show, a bunch of the announcements, I already talked to a bunch of people that have been in private beta, they've been testing this out, they're excited about it and because it's just so easy to get on all of these new features. >> Right, and I mean, we've seen it here, we've heard from many people here from a lot of different walks of life. You mentioned some of the past shows, AWS Public Sector. I was at that not too long ago in Washington, D.C. and you see a company that has its units very focused and very driven and doing very well and the right relationships. Buzzword, serverless, right? We heard it a lot today. Serverless applications, serverless computing. From more than one source, we heard it from several folks and so obviously this is not just a popular piece of nomenclature for the day, this is a trend, a theme that's going to be evolving and maturing over the next year or two. >> Yeah I mean everybody for the last couple years they've kind of been looking at it with their head sideways. I'm not sure that I understand it. We talked to two companies today, it was IOPipe and A Cloud Guru that their company, their IT infrastructure was all built on serverless, and they both got funding recently, so this isn't just oh yeah, some developer does some cool stuff on the side, microservices, buzz buzz, things like that. We talked to FICO is using serverless for their admin functions, certain areas they're not ready to roll it out across the board, governance compliance, things like that, I need to understand it. It is still very early, but that being said, there's a lot of usage in it. Last year it was oh, if you want to develop for the Alexa platform, the Amazon Echo type thing, that uses serverless, so we're seeing lots and lots of cases. That really is a new way of architecting the way to roll out really microservices driven applications and when we talk about the big challenge of our time, it's distributed architectures and how do I have new applications? We talked to a number of companies moving from the old way of doing my application to building new application, that's the long hole in the 10. This is not something that happens overnight, but I can start playing with it in a much smaller form factor and do it for pennies not years and millions of dollars so there is really serverless has really in many ways eclipsed kind of the container's discussion for the hot buzz in the industry. Kubernetes fits into that whole picture, but not just serverless in general, but AWS Lambda is the leader of the pack out there and you know, yet another reason why Amazon just going strong, their revenue still doing well, keeps adding to what they're doing and you don't hear many people griping when you walk around the show floor as to what they wish they had. It's a very positive experience. >> And you hear criticisms saying, "They only had 42% growth year to year." It's not what it used to be. But 42 as you know, most people would gladly be in that position. What about your thoughts about the maturation of the Cloud? You mentioned transformative and things are evolving and growing, where do you put it now? Is this second phase, next phase, late phase? Where are we in terms of what's happening and what AWS is making happen? >> So a couple years ago we know that Cloud is here to stay. There's still the joke a friend of friend of mine in the keynote. 20,000 people registered for this event and it was like well, I guess this Cloud thing might have legs, so we are still early in the overall wave of this. I've been in a number of conferences this year that we've done theCUBE on. You talk about the infrastructure companies and companies that have built on virtualization. They said, "We went through a decade "of tremendous growth with virtualization." Virtualization is still very important. Amazon builds their infrastructure not on VMWare, but they leverage virtualization technologies, but the next 10 years will be this huge wave of really that going up the uptake of the S curve so we're past really the classic crossing the chasm. We're in the early majority going to mid majority of people using it and there's just no shortage of new use cases that people can use it for. We've talked to lots of companies that start up and say, "I'm just leveraging Cloud because it's easy." THere's VCs that look at that as how to get involved and as I've just mentioned before, there's companies now that are building themselves on serverless so this is even kind of the next piece that follows these waves we are early in Cloud if you look at kind of overall ham of IT, public Cloud is still a very small piece. At Wikiban we've been talking for the last I think two years about what we really the multi Cloud environment. There's true private Cloud and there's public Cloud and how do I get that operational model that I can scale, I can build really a distributed architecture? I shift more to an operational expense rather than a capital expense, so it's flexibility, it's agility, it's speed, and it's very interesting, exciting times. There's no more exciting time to be in tech than today, maybe tomorrow, because we know the only thing constant is that the pace of change keeps increasing. >> It does increase and two big drivers of that, we heard again today, artificial intelligence, machine learning. How would you rate or how would you characterize the impotence that they're providing in terms of pushing the envelope? >> Absolutely there was some good announcements today, I don't know that there's any today that you'd say, "I'm going to look back five years from now and be like, 'Wow, I was in New York City when that was announced.'" >> John: Right, but just in general? >> But in general, let me say one of the things that I didn't hear today, I was was little bit disappointed, I mentioned it in the open, we talked to a couple of the partners here, you know the Kubernetes option. Adrian Kovrov got up on stage. He had written a blog post there was an announcement last week, no mention of where Kubernetes is going to fit in here. Definitely they're committed to it, they're making developments, but maybe something will come out in beta soon. I would expect by the time we get to the re:Invent show in November that we will have more clarity here. I was hoping to hear that more and that was something that didn't come out of Amazon, but they're embracing it. Customers are asking for it, developers, there's a ground swell on that, so they're involved with it. Lambda and serverless absolutely. Amazon is at the vanguard, they're pushing things forward. Machine learning and IoT, Amazon is at the table. It is still very early, they're driving a lot of things forward. Yeah, you know, you get enough, it's like come on, there's no BitCoin discussed today, why is that? So some of the other vendors there, but Amazon is in all the appropriate conversations. There's not any wide gaps that you'd say customers like hate these. Amazon's not in this base and I expect them to and therefore I'm going to choose another platform provider. That being said, it's not a winner-take-all, it is a multi Cloud world, most of these environments, we talked about even if I do serverless, if I architect them a certain way I can move them and make changes, Kubernetes the same way. So Amazon, one of the things that they pride themselves on is they need to keep proving to their customers every month that they are the ones that they fuse on because otherwise it is relatively easy to make a change, but they're the big dog, they got the leadership position, and it's always impressive to watch them. >> It is and you speak of impressive. re:Invent, is just what, two and a half months away, three months away, we'll be out there as well. Huge show, probably one of the largest shows by far that we attend and looking forward to that and seeing you down the road. Always a pleasure to be with you. >> Thanks so much. >> And great job as always. Stu Miniman does an outstanding job providing analysis for Wikiban, so on behalf of Stu and all the crew here at theCUBE, we thank you for joining us here at the AWS Summit in Midtown. We've been live at the Javits Center. Have a good week and we'll see you down the road here on theCUBE. (light electronic music)

>> Announcer: Live from Manhattan it's the Cube. Covering AWS Summit New York City 2017. Brought to you buy Amazon Web Services. >> Hello and welcome to the Big Apple. AWS Summit kicking off here at the Javits Convention Center New York, New York. Along with Stu Miniman, I'm John Walls, welcome to the Cube as we continue our coverage here. Really I feel like this is ongoing, Stu, as far as what we're doing with AWS (mumbles) public sector summit. AWS from the outside in for a very long time. So tell me what you make of this. I mean regional show, we probably have four or 5,000 folks here, good turnout. What's the vibe you got, what's the feeling? >> It's really interesting 'cause we've covered a few of the regional summits but it's the first one that I've attended. I'm actually already have been starting to plan for AWS reinvent, which is the big show in November. Expecting probably around 50,000 people at that show, but I think four years ago, four and a half years ago when I went to the first (mumbles) summit in Las Vegas, it was about the size of what this show is. So Adrian Cockcroft got up on stage, said there were about 20,000 people registered. Of course registered doesn't mean that they're all here. A lot of people I know watching the live stream as well as it's free to attend so if I'm in New York City, there's just a few people in New York that care about tech probably. So maybe they'll pop in sometime for today, but in the keynote there's definitely a few thousand people. It's a good sized expo hall here. This could be a five or 6,000 person event for the size of the expo hall that they have here, and the Javits center can really hold some big activity here. Impressive at scope because Amazon and the cloud is still in early days. As Jeff (mumbles) says, there is no day two, we're always day one and what's going on. Went through a lot of announcements, a lot of momentum, a lot of revenue in this big cloud thing. >> You talk about Adrian too, we'll get to his keynote comments in a little bit. Talking about revenue growth still in the uptick year to year 42%. So still going there, but then on the other side you do se some writing going on that maybe upticks slowing down just a hair as far as cloud deployment goes. >> Yeah that's a great thing, 'cause we're all staring at the numbers and it's no longer, Amazon right now is not growing 75, 80% as opposed to the companies trying to catch up to them, like Microsoft, is growing at more of that 75 (talking over each other) >> But Amazon if you look at infrastructured service, is the largest out there. What was it, it was a 16 billion dollar run rate looking at the last 12 months looking back. Still over 40% growth rate. So yes is the growth slowing down a little bit, but that's just because they're not at a big number so it's a little tougher, but they keep adding services, they keep adding users. Some big users up on stage, some new services getting announced because the way Andy Jassy puts it, I mean everyday when you wake up, there's another three services from Amazon. So it's not like they had to say, oh geeze, can we hold something off? I go to the typical enterprise show and it's like, oh we're going to have this bundle announcements that we do. Amazon could have one of these every week somewhere and everyday could be like, here's three new services and they're kind of interesting because everyday that's kind of what they have. >> Yeah and I don't mean to paint it like the wolf is at the door, by any means, but the competitors are at the door. So how much of that factors into this space (mumbles) you pointed everybody else has this huge market share. They're not even (mumbles) they're like the elephant and the gorilla in the room, but at the same time, you do, as you're coming on, Google's still out there looking. There's another player as well. >> Well if you talk to the Amazon people, they don't care about the competitors, they care about their customers. So they focus very much on what their customers are doing. They work on really small teams. If we want to talk about a couple of the announcements today, one of the ones that, at least the community I was watching, it's AWS glue, which really helps to get ETL, which is the extract, transform, and load really a lot of the heavy lifting and undifferentiated heavy lifting that data scientists are doing. Matt Wood, who was up on the keynote said 75% of their time is done on this kind of stuff, and here's something that can greatly reduce it. Few people in the Twitter stream were talking about they've used the beta of it. They're really excited. It was one that didn't sound all that exciting, but once you get into it it's like, oh wow, game changer. This is going to free up so much time. Really accelerate that speed of what I'm doing. Adrian Cockcroft talked about speed and flight freeing me from some of the early constraints. I'm an infrastructure guy by background and everything was like, and I've got that boat anchor stuff that I need to move along and the refresh cycles, and what do I have budget for today? And now I can spin things up so much faster. They give an example of, oh I'm going to do this on Hive and it's going to take me five years to do it as opposed to if I do it in the nice AWS service it takes 155 seconds. We've had lots of examples like this. One of the earliest customers I remember talking to over four years ago, Cycle Computing was like, we would build the super computer and it would have taken us two years and millions of dollars to build, and instead we did the entire project in two months and it cost us $10,000. So those are the kind of transformational things that we expect to hear from Amazon. Lots of customers, but getting into the nuance of it's a lot of building new service. Hulu got on stage and it wasn't that, they didn't say we've killed all of our data centers and everything that you do under Hulu is now under AWS. They said, we wanted to do live TV and live TV is very different from what we had built for in our infrastructure, and the streaming services that Amazon had, and the reach, and the CDN, and everything that they can do there makes it so that we could do this much faster and integrate what we were doing before with the live TV. Put those things together, transformational, expand their business model, and helps move forward Hulu so as they're not just a media company, they're a technology company and Amazon and Amazon support as a partner helps them with that transformation. >> So they're changing their mission obviously, and then technologically they have the help to do that. Part of the migration of AWS migration, we talked about that as well, one of those new services that they rolled out today. I think the quote was migration is a journey and we're going to make it a little simpler right now. >> Yeah we've been hearing for the last couple of years the database. So you know whether I've got Oracle databases, whether it was running SQL before. I want to migrate them, and with Amazon now, I have so many different migration tools that this migration hub now is going to allow me to track all of my migrations across AWS. So this is not for the company that's saying, oh yeah I'm tinkering with some stuff and I'm doing some test dev, but the enterprise that has thousands of applications or lots of locations and lots of people, they now need managers of managers to watch this and some partners involved to help with a lot of these services, but really sprawling all of the services that Amazon have every time they put up one of those eye charts with just all of these different boxes. Every one of them, when you tend to dig in it's like, oh machine learning was a category before and now there's dozens of things inside it. You keep drilling down, I feel like it's that Christopher Nolan movie, Inception. We keep going levels deep as to kind of figure it out. We need to move at cloud time, which is really fast as opposed to kind of the old enterprise time. >> We hit on machine learning. We saw a lot of examples that cut across a pretty diverse set of brands and sectors, and really the democratization of machine learning more or less. At least that was the takeaway I got from it. >> And absolutely. When you mention the competition, this is where Google has a strong position in machine learning. Amazon and Microsoft also pushing there. So it is still early days in machine learning and while Amazon has an undisputed lead in overall cloud, machine learning is one of those areas where everybody's starting from kind of the starting point and Amazon's brought in a lot of really good people. They've got a lot of people working on teams and building out new services. The one that was announced at the end of the keynote is Amazon Macie, which is really around my sensitive data in a global context using machine learning to understand when something's being used when it shouldn't and things like that. I was buying my family some subway tickets and you could only buy two metro cards with one credit card because even if I put in all the data, it was like, no we're only going to let you buy two because if somebody got your credit card they could probably get that and do that. So that's the kind of thing that you're trying to act fast with data no matter where you are because malicious people and hackers, data is the new oil, as we said. It's something that we need to watch and be able to manage even better. So Amazon keeps adding tools and services to allow us to use our data, protect our data, and harness the value of data. I've really said, data is the new flywheel for technology going forward. Amazon for years talked about the flywheels of customers. They add new services, more customers come on board that drives new services and now data is really that next flywheel that's going to drive that next bunch of years of innovation to come. >> You've talked a lot about announcements that we just heard about in the keynote. Big announcement fairly recently about the cloud data computing foundation. So all of the sudden they, I'd say not giving the Heisman, if you will, the Kubernetes, but maybe not embracing it, right? Fair enough to say. Different story now. All of the sudden they're platinum level on the board. They have a voice on how Kubernetes is going to be rolled out going forward, or I guess maybe how Kubernetes is going to be working with AWS going forward. >> And my comment, I gave a quote to SiliconANGLE. I'm on the analyst side of the media. This side had written an article and I said, it's a good step. I saw a great headline that was like, Amazon gives $350,000. They're at least contributing with the financial piece, but when you dig in and read, there was a medium blog post written by Adrian Cockcroft. He didn't touch on it at all in the keynote this morning. Which I was a little surprised about, but what he said is, we're contributing, we're greatly involved, and there's all of these things that are happening in the CNCF, but Amazon has not said, and here is our service to enable Kubernetes as a first class citizen in there. They have the AWS container service, which is ACS which doesn't use Kubernetes. Until this recent news, I could layer Kubernetes on top and there are a lot of offerings to do that. What I'd like to be able to hear is, what service is really Amazon going to offer with that. My expectation not knowing any concrete details is by the time we get to the big show in November, they will have that baked out war, probably have some announcements there. Hoping at this show to be able to talk to some people to really find out what's happening inside really that Kubernetes piece, 'cause that helps not only with really migrations. If I'm built with Kubernetes, it's built with containers. Containers are also the underlying component when I'm doing things like serverless, AWS Lambda. So if I can use Kubernetes, I can build one way and use multiple environments. Whether that be public cloud or private clouds. So how much will Amazon embrace that, how much will they use this. as well we're enabling Kubernetes so if you've got a Kubernetes solution, you can now get into another migration service to Amazon or will they open up a little bit more? We've really been watching to see as Amazon builds out their hybrid cloud offering. Which is how do they get into the customer's data center because we've seen that maturation of public cloud only, everything into the public cloud to now Lambda starts to reach out a little bit with the green grass, they've got their snow balls, they've got the partnership with VMware, which we expect to hear lots more about at VMworld at the end of this month. They've got partnerships with Redhat and a whole lot of other companies that they're working at to really expanding how they get all of these wonderful Amazon services that are in the public cloud. How do they reach into the customer's data centers themselves and start leveraging those services? All of those free services of data that are getting added. Lots of companies would want to get access to them. >> Well full lineup of guests, as always. Great lineup of guests, but before we head out, you said you're with Wikibon, you do great analyst work there and you've got that inquiring mind. You're a curious guy. What are you curious about today? What do you kind of want to walk away from here tonight learning a little bit more about? >> So as I mentioned, the whole Kubernetes story absolutely is one that we want to hear about. Going to talk to a lot of the partners. So we've seen a lot of the analytics machine learning type solutions really getting to the public (mumbles) so it's good to get a pulse of really this ecosystem because while Amazon is, we've said it's not only the elephant in the room, Dave Alante, the chief analyst at Wikibon said, they're the cheetah, they move rally fast, they're really nimble. Amazon, not the easiest always to partner with. How's the room feel, how are the customers, how are the partners, how much are they really in on AWS, how many of them are multi cloud and I'm using Google for some of the data solutions and Microsoft apps really have me involved. So Amazon loves to say people that are all in. We had one of the speakers that talked, Zocdoc, which one that allows me to set appointments with doctors much faster using technology. Analytics say rather than 24 days you could do 24 hours. They went from no AWS to fully 100% in on AWS in less than 12 months. So those are really impressive ones. Obviously it's a technology center company but you see large companies. FICO was the other one up on stage. Actually hopping to have FICO on the program today. They are, what was it, over a 60 year old company so obviously they have a lot of legacy, and how AWS fits into their environment. I actually interviewed someone from FICO a couple of years ago at an OpenStack show talking about their embrace of containers and containers allows them to get into public cloud a little bit easier. So I'd love to kind of dig into those pieces. What's the post of the customers, what's the post of the partner ecosystem, and are there chinks in the armor? You mentioned the competitive piece there. Usually when you come to an Amazon show, it's all Amazon all the time. The number one gripe usually is it's kind of pricing, and Amazon's made some moves. We did a bunch of interviews the week of the Google Next event talking about Google cloud and there was a lot of kind of small medium business that said Google was priced better, Google has a clear advantage (mumbles) I'm going away from Amazon. The week after the show, Amazon changed their pricing, talked to some of the same people and they're like, yeah Amazon leveled the playing field. So Amazon listens and moves very fast. So if they're not the first to create an offering, they will spin something up very fast. They can readjust their security, their pricing to make sure that they are listening to their customers and meeting them not necessarily in response to competitors, but getting what the customers need and therefore if the customers are griping a little bit about something that they see that's interesting, or a pain point that they've had. Like we've talked about the AWS Glue wasn't something that a competitor had. It was that this is a pain point that they saw a lot of time is on it, and they are looking to take that pain out. One of the line that always gets poked about Amazon is they say your margin is our opportunity and your pain as a customer is our opportunity too. So Amazon always listening. >> All right, a lot on the plate here this day we have for you at AWS Summit. We'll be back with much more as we continue here on the Cube and AWS Summit 2017 from New York City. (upbeat techno music)

>> Narrator: Live from Manhattan, it's theCUBE, covering AWS Summit New York City 2017, brought to you by Amazon Web Services. >> And welcome back to New York, here. AWS Summit, theCUBE continue our coverage of what's happening here in the Big Apple. I'm John Walls along with Stu Miniman, and what this is is maybe not the most prolific CUBE guest of all time, but he's in the hall of fame. He really is a CUBE MVP for sure. It's good to have David Richards with us, the president, chairman, CEO of WANdisco. Good to see you, sir. >> It's a pleasure to be back again. It feels like home. >> It is like home. We need to get you your own microphone, I think, you know? >> David: I know it. I need my name on the back of the seat or something. >> This isn't quite a home game for you. All right, so you've got an office in Sheffield, England. >> David: Yeah. >> You've got an office out in the valley, Silicon Valley. We got ya right in the middle, I think. >> David: Yeah. >> Almost, don't we? So-- >> Exactly. >> We kind of split the difference for you this one. >> I always tell people I'm recolonizing the United States. I've been here for about 20 years. I can change the accent. >> Right. >> I'll get you all, eventually. >> All right, well, another year or two, we'll see how that works for ya. Big, big, I guess six, seven months for you, right? As far as some acquisitions you've done, some vice partnerships and arrangements you've done. >> Yes, as a business, we've really progressed well in the first half of the year. I've got to be a little bit careful. We've got results coming out September the sixth in London, but we did do a pre-announcement of a business update. We signed a record big data cloud contract with a very large bank for over four million dollars. That was our largest ever contract win. We signed a major retailer who we can't name, obviously, which is another sort of cloud ObjectStore on premises. A big data win, and interestingly, we stopped burning cash and investors really like this kind of perfect storm of, 175%, 173% growth in our cloud big data revenue, booking, sorry, combined with a flat cost-base, which meant, first half of last year, burning five point four million dollars down to virtually zero, just $600,000 in the first half. So, investors really like that. We really like that, and it demonstrates that perfect storm of flat cost-base and growing sales. >> David, I'm curious, does working with Amazon, and your customers being on Amazon, does the speed and agility and everything like that contribute to that profitability? >> Well, Amazon kind of changes the game for all vendors, right? Because nobody, it used to be this sort of big four, five, six, whatever it is these days, consulting companies that had to implement ERP systems and all those complex applications. I don't necessarily think they're the people, they're not the go-to people anymore for cloud. So, it's down to uniqueness of technology. Amazon have got such a wide array, we were talking earlier about some of their announcements out today as they continue to go up the stack with applications and so on. So, it does lend itself very well to small vendors with sticky, unique intellectual property and unique products and services that are going to really thrive in this kind of cloud environment. So, we've really enjoyed working with Amazon, but we're also working with the other cloud vendors, as well, and I have to say, when we first saw the Snowmobile and the Snowball, well, actually, the Snowmobile, drive out on stage in New York, was it 12, 18 months ago? It's dog years, so everything goes seven times faster. >> John: Right, right, right. >> I was laughing. I was like, "How on Earth can you possibly use a truck to move data?" But a customer came to us, a prospect came to us the other day, he wanted to move a hundred petabytes of data. Now, if you're going to use the public internet to do that, that's going to take a hell of a long time. So, this idea of a mix between physical and digital data movement I think is, when moving to cloud, is actually fascinating. I think it's a really fascinating subject area. One that customers are definitely going to use. >> Yeah, you've got a great vantage point looking at customers' migrations. >> David: Yeah. >> It was actually something big in the keynote talking about, there are so many migrations out there that Amazon released an AWS Migration Hubs. So, obviously, physics is always a challenge, my legacy mindset. Customers, we heard a customer up onstage and it's usually not lift and shift maybe for the private cloud, but for public cloud, I usually, I need to rewrite, I need to do micro-services. What is the friction for customers, and how are you and Amazon and the other clouds helping customers work through those challenges? >> OK, so, just to take a step back and think about the problems that happen at hyper-scale data movement. So, small-scale data, gigabyte-scale data, the stuff that you typically see in a relational database, they're not particularly big problems. It's kind of minimal outage, press pause, move data, make it consistent, and you're done. You can have a sort of, a small outage, maybe 15 minutes or even a day to move data, but when it gets to hyper-scale, when it gets to petabyte-scale, multi-terabyte-scale data moves, that's when you have a problem, and that's really the problem that we solve. So, the idea that you can move data that's moving and changing without an interruption to service from on-premise to cloud and support a hybrid cloud topology for an elongated period of time is fascinating. I was listening at an investor conference to the CEO of VMware who was talking about, we're going to be in a situation of hybrid cloud for the next 20, 25 years because, overnight, not everybody can just repurpose every single application that they're running on-premise, whether it's in the main frame application, or a relational data application, or wherever it is in the OP application, and repurpose that in cloud overnight. So, we're going to have to gradually move and migrate those applications over. So, it's highly likely we're going to be in a hybrid cloud environment for the foreseeable future, and that's actually fantastic news for us. We're moving, as I said, at scale companies into cloud with transactional data, and nobody else can touch us in terms of the uniqueness of the IP, which is fantastic news for us. >> In terms of just big data in general, Stu has one use for it, I have a different use for it. It's going to live in a lot of different places. How are you responding to different needs within your clients and trying to make them more effective, make them more efficient? And yet, when you're dealing with more and more data, that's a big storm to handle. >> That's a great question. I went to speak a couple of months ago to a new customer of ours who is a major healthcare provider on the east coast, and I kind of said to him, "OK, you've had this deep cluster for the past three years. Why are you calling us? Why now?" Which is the question that I always ask our customers. Why? What changed? Why are you doing this right now?" And maybe for the past three years they've been putting legal data into the system. That's data, but who cares if you can't get access to it? We can move to telephone. We can move to e-mails. We can go into an archive, into a paper archive even, to find it, but the why now is that they're now putting patient record data, patient information with regulated SLA's into this system, and that really is our sweet spot. As you get to, remember that investment thesis, small-scale gigabyte outage is small outage, when you get into petabyte, exabyte-scale, when you've got data sets that are a thousand, a million times greater, it's linear to the quantum of data. That outage becomes a thousand or a million times greater. So, that's kind of intolerable. So, we love it when strategic applications, regardless of what the use case is, we could all have different, it might be patient data, it might be retail information, it might be banking data, it might be customer retention information, when those strategic applications move onto this hyper-scale infrastructure, you have to support RTO and RTP, and that's what we do. >> And is a byte a byte a byte? You have these thousands of needles in haystacks, right? How do you assign value to one as opposed to another? >> So, this is another great question and one that investors kind of ask me a lot. So, we used to model our business from kind of the ground up. So, we take the classic enterprise sales team, you have a sales and marketing organization that's quite large, you would multiply that by their quota and then multiply it by 66% because that's how many of them are going to be successful in selling product. Well, we completely threw that away when we launched WANdisco Fusion, our new technology, early 2016. Then, we moved to a channel-based approach. So, we have IBM, we have an OAM, 5,000 quarter-carrying enterprise sales guys at IBM selling our products. That was a fantastic deal for us. We signed it in April 2016, and they've done the first half of this year, and made at least six million dollars in sales that we have also announced, and then, we've got strategic partnerships with Amazon, with Microsoft, with Google, and we model our business by those channels. So, we're not looking for needles in haystacks. We don't, we could never hire another, I mean, if we had to come into the market and say, "We need to go and hire 5,000 enterprise sales guys," we'd have to be raising, doing fund-raisers like Uber or something. We'd just be untenable. We couldn't do it. So, we have a product that lends itself very well to a channel-based approach, and that's working very nicely for us. So, we're not looking for, we're just looking for haystacks. Somebody else can go and find the needles. >> John: Find me and you, right? >> Right. >> David, how are your customers managing the pace of change these days? We've said Amazon is an example. It's like everyday there's three new services coming out. Are they excited? Are they completely overwhelmed? What do you see these days? >> So, I think it's classic sort of products and option lifecycle stuff. The sort of technical enthusiasts, they love all this change. The early-stage companies that are implementing this new cloud-based technology, ObjectStore technology and so on, they're managing very well. It's the later-stage companies you might go to and say, "ObjectStore," and they'll go, "What's ObjectStore? We're just getting our head around Hadoop, and Hive, and Pig, and all this other stuff that you were talking about three years ago," and sales guys go in there now and say, "Oh, no, no, no, don't worry about Hadoop. Nobody's going to run Hadoop in the cloud." It's like, "Well, that's what you told me three years ago." So, I think the market's certainly divided. I think you're going to see, as we move up products and option lifecycle, you're going to see lots and lots and lots of interesting moves happen. The companies that seem to be owning cloud, I think Alibaba is coming up really fast. We're seeing them doing some interesting things. Obviously, they've got dominoes in the Chinese market. Amazon First-Mover, Microsoft's futures dependent on cloud. So, they all have their different spin and different take on applications that they're going to run in cloud. I think there is, I think it's a bit like the cellphone industry. There's lot and lots of different plans, lots and lots of different confusing nomenclature, but that's going to settle out in the next couple of years, but there's unquestionably, if you look at the audience here today, unquestionably large-scale movement of applications and data to cloud. >> Well, we appreciate the time, as always. Great to see you. Another notch in your CUBE belt. (laughing) So, congratulations for that, and maybe you can settle in to New York for a day or two. You said your travels have had you flip-floppin' back and forth between England and here. So, maybe you can settle in for a day or two. >> Yeah, I need to replicate myself. I need to put myself in at least two different places at the same time. >> Live data replication right here. (laughing) All right, David, thanks for bein' with us. David Richards. >> Thank you. Thanks guys. >> Back with more here on theCUBE, we continue our coverage of AWS Summit from New York City right after this break. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: Live from Manhattan It's theCUBE! Covering AWS Summit New York City 2017. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services. >> And welcome back here to New York. We're at the Javits Center here in midtown Manhattan for AWS Summit 2017. Along with Stu Miniman, I'm John Walls. Glad to have you here on theCUBE we continue our coverage here from New York City. Well, if you're making that move to the cloud these days, you're thinking about privacy, you're thinking about security, you're thinking about compliance. Big questions, and maybe some big problems that Bill Shin can answer for you. He is the Principal Security Architect at AWS, and Bill, thanks for being with us. >> Thanks for giving me the time. >> Hey CUBE rookie, right? This is- >> This is my first time. >> Your maiden voyage. >> First time for everything. >> Glad to have you, yeah. So I just hit on some of the high points, these are big, big questions for a lot of folks I would say. Just in general, before we jump in, how do you go about walking people into the water a little bit, and getting them thinking, get their arms around these topics? >> Absolutely. It's still among the first conversations we have with customers, it's our top priority at AWS, the security, and customers are concerned about their data security, regardless of where that data is. Once they move it into the cloud it's a real opportunity to be more secure, it's an opportunity to think about how they're doing security, and adapt and be a little faster. So we have a really prescriptive methodology for helping customers understand how to do a clouded option, and improve their security at the same time. We have a framework called the Well-Architected Framework, and there's a security pillar in that framework, it's built around five key areas. Identity access management, which is really what you should be thinking about first, because authorization is everything. Everything is code, everything is in API, so it all has to be authorized properly. Then we move into detective controls and talk about visibility and control, turning on CloudTrail, getting logging set up. All the detective controls so that before you even move a workload into the cloud, you know exactly what's happening, right? And then we move into infrastructure security, which includes your network trust boundaries, zone definition, things like firewall rules, load balancers, segmentation, as well as system security. Hardening and configuration state of all the resources in their account. Then we move on to data protection as we walk customers through this adoption journey. Things like encryption, backup, recovery, access control on data. And then finally incident response. We want to make sure that they have a really good, solid plan for incident response as they begin to move more and more of their business into the cloud. So to help them wade through the waters we bring it up. The CSO is a key partner in a clouded option, organizations need to make sure security is in lockstep with engineering as they move to the cloud. So we want to help with that. We also have the Cloud Adoption Framework, and there's a security perspective in that framework. Methodology for really treating security more like engineering these days. So you have Dev Ops and you have Dev Sec Ops. Security needs to have a backlog, they need to have sprints, they need to have user stories. It's very similar to how engineering would do it. In that way their partnering together as they move workloads into the cloud. >> Amazon's releasing so many new features, it's tough for a lot of us to keep up. Andy Jassey last year said, "Every day when you wake up, there's at least three new announcements coming out." So it's a new day, there are a number of announcements in your space, maybe bring us up to speed as to what we missed if you just woke up on the West Coast. >> Sure, sure. Customers love the pace of innovation, especially security organizations, they really like the fact that when we innovate on something, it means they might not have to put as much resources on that particular security opportunity or security concern. They can focus more on their code quality, more on engineering principles, things like that. So today, we happily announced Amazon Macie, love it, it performs data classification on your S3 objects. It provides user activity monitoring for who's accessing that data. It uses a lot of our machine learning algorithms under the hood to determine what is normal access behavior for that data. It has a very differentiated classification engine. So it does things like topic modeling, regular expressions, and a variety of other things to really identify that data. People were storing trillions of objects in S3, and they really want to know what their data is, whether it's important to them. Certainly customer's data is the most important thing, so being able to classify that data, perform user analytics on it, and then be able to alert and alarm on inappropriate activities. So take a look at Macie, it's really going make a big difference for customers who want to know that their data is secure in S3. >> Actually I got a question from the community looking at Macie came out, we've got a lot of questions about JDPR coming out. >> Bill: Okay sure, yeah. >> So Macie, or the underlying tech, can that be- >> Bill: Absolutely a great tool. We think the US is the greatest place to be to perform JDPR compliance. You really got to know your data, you have to know if you're moving data by European citizens around, you really have to understand that data. I think Macie will be a big part of a lot of customer strategy on JDPR compliance. To finish your question, we've announced quite a few things today, so Macie's one of them. We announced the next iteration of Cloud HSM, so it's cheaper, more automated, deals more with the clustering that you don't have to do. Deeper integration with things like CloudTrail. Customers really wanted a bit more control and integration with the services that what the previous iteration was, so we've offered that. We announced EFS volume encryption too, so EFS, or Elastic File System encryption at rest. It natively integrates with the key management system the same way that the many of our services do when you're storing data. We announced some config rules today to help customers better understand the access policies on their S3 buckets. So yeah, good stuff. >> John: Busy day, >> Busy day. >> I mean just from a security standpoint, when you are working with a new client, do you ever uncover, or do they discover things about themselves that need to be addressed? >> Bill: Yeah. I think the number one thing, and it's true for many organizations when they move to the cloud, is they want that agility, right? And when we talk to security organizations, one of the top things we advise them on is how to move faster. As much as we're having great conversations about WAF and Shield, the Web Application Firewall, and Shield, our D-DOS solution, Inspector, which performs configuration assessments, all the security services that we've launched, we're also having pretty deep conversations with security organizations these days about CodeStar, CodePipeline, CodeDeploy, and then DevOps tool chains, because security can get that fast engineering principles down, and their just as responsive. It also puts security in the hands of engineers and developers, you know that's the kind of conversations we're having. They discover that they kind of need to get a little closer to how development does their business. You know, talking in the same vocabulary as engineering and development. That's one of the things I think customers discover. Also it's a real opportunity, right? So if you don't have to look after a data center footprints and all the patch panels and switches and routers and firewalls and load balancers and things you have on premises, it really does allow a shift in focus for security organizations to focus on code quality, focus on user behavior, focus on a lot of things that every CSO would like to spend more time on. >> Bill, one of the things a lot of companies struggle with is how they keep up with everything that's happening, all the change there, when I talk to my friends in the security industry it's one of the things that they're most excited about. Is we need to be up on the latest fixes and the patches, and when I go to public cloud you don't ask somebody "Hey what version of AWS or Azure are you running on?" You're going to take care of that behind the scenes. How do you manage the application portfolio for customers, and get them into that framework so that they can, you know we were talking about, Cameron, Jean Kim just buy into that as security just becomes part of the process, as I get more out of agile. >> Yeah, so the question is really about helping customers understand all the services, and really get them integrated deeply. A couple of things, certainly the well architected framework, like I mentioned, is helpful for that. We have solution architects, professional services consultants, a very, very rich partner ecosystem that helps customers. A lot of training for security, there's some free training online, there's classroom, instructor-led training as well, so that training piece is important. I think the solutions are better together. We have a lot of great building blocks, but when you look at something like CloudTrail Cloud Watch Events, and Lambda together, we try and talk about the solutions, not just the individual building blocks. I think that's one key component too, to help them understand how to solve a security problem. Take, for example, monitoring the provisioning of identities and roles and permissions. We really want customers to know that that CloudTrail log, when someone attaches a role to a policy, that can go all the way to a slack channel, that can go all the way to a ticket system. You really want to talk about the end-to-end integration with our customers. Really to help them keep pace with our pace of innovation. We really try and get the blog in front of them, the security blog is a great source of information for all the security announcements we make. Follow Jeff Bar's Twitter, a bunch of things to help keep pace with all of our launches and things, yeah. >> You brought up server lists, if I look at the container space, which is related of course, security has been one of those questions. Bring us up to speed as to where you are with security containers, Lambda- >> Sure, I think Lambda's isolation is very strong, in Lambda we have a really confidence in the tenant isolation model for those functions. The nice thing about server lists is, when there's no code running, you really don't have a surface area to defend. I think from a security perspective, if you were building an application today, and you go to your security team and say "I'd really like to build this little piece of code, and tie these pieces of code together, and when they're not running there's nothing there that you need to defend." Or, would I like to build this big set of operating systems and fleet management and all the things I have to do. It's kind of a, it's a pretty easy conversation right? All the primitives are there in server-less. You have strong cryptography TLSM endpoints, you've got the IM policy framework so that identity access management has really consistent language across all the services, so principles, actions, resources, and conditions is the same across every service. It's not any different for server-less, so they can leverage the knowledge they have of how to manage identities and authorization in the same way. You've got integration of CloudTrail. So all the primitives are there, so customers can focus on their code and being builders. >> Stu: So it sounds like that's part of the way to attach security for IOT then if we're using those. >> I think for IOT it's a very similar architecture too, so you have similar policies that you can apply to what a device you can write to in the cloud. We have a really strong set of authorization and authentication features within the IOT platform so that it makes it easy for developers to build things, deploy them, and maintain them in a secure state. But you can go back to the Well-Architected Framework and the CAF, the Cloud Adoption Framework, you take those five key areas, you know identity, detective controls, infrastructure security, data protection, and IR incident response. It's pretty similar across all the different services. >> It just comes back to the fundamentals. >> It does, absolutely. And for customers, you know those control objectives haven't changed right? They have those control objectives today, they'll have them in the cloud, and we just want to make it easier and faster. >> Well Bill, thanks for being with us. >> You bet, thank you very much. >> Good to have you on theCUBE, look forward to seeing you again for the second time around. >> See you then hopefully >> Bill Shin, from AWS joining us here on theCUBE. Continuing our coverage from the AWS Summit here in New York in just a bit. (techno music)

>> Announcer: Live, from Manhattan. It's theCUBE! Covering AWS Summit New York City 2017. Brought to you by Amazon web services. >> And welcome back here on theCUBE. The flagship broadcast of SiliconANGLE TV where our colleague John Furrier likes to say we extract the signal from the noise. Doing that here at AWS Summit here in midtown along with Stu Miniman. I'm John Walls and we're joined now by Ben Newton who's the analytics lead at Sumo Logic. And I said Ben, what is an analytics lead? If you were to give me the elevator speech on that? You said you're the geek who stays up all night and fiddles with stuff. >> That's why I joined Sumo Logic. I love finding the things that other people didn't find. And when I first joined, I was staying up until 2:00 a.m. every night playing around with the data. My wife started getting worried about me. (laughter) But that was the path that I set on. >> You're the guy that looks at the clouds and sees the man's nose, right? >> Yeah exactly, exactly. >> It's just it's in data that's all. >> Yeah, yeah. >> So I hear this concept. But we'll jump in here about continuous intelligence, right? >> Ben: Yeah. >> It's machine data and there's just this constant stream. I mean, how do you see that? How do you define that? And how does that play with how you, what you do? >> Yeah, no absolutely. So, I've been around a little while. And when I started out, there was a particular set of problems we were trying to solve. You know, we had the $100,000 Sun Microsystem servers. You drop 'em on the floor, somebody gets fired. But it was a very particular problem set. What's happened now is that the market is really changing. And so, the amount of data is just growing exponentially. So I kind of have my own conjoined triangle slide that I like to show people. But basically, things are getting smaller and smaller and smaller. We're going from these monolithic services to microservices, IOT. And the scale is just getting bigger and bigger and bigger. And what that means is that the amount of data being produced is it's bigger than anyone ever imagined. I was just looking up some numbers that Barkley says it's going to be 16 zettabytes. I had to look that up. That's a billion terabytes by 2020. That's like watching the whole Netflix catalog 30 million times. (laughter) That's the amount of data that customers are dealing with and that's what's exciting about this space I think. >> So, I remember at Re:Invent. You see Sumo's like the booth when you walk in. They actually had sumo wrestlers one year. (laughter) Remind me, just wrestling. I've got all that data. How do I take advantage of that? How do I democratize the analytics on data? What are the big challenges? You said customers used to be dropping a server on the floor. How are they getting their arms around this? How are they really leveraging their data? And leveraging analytics more? >> Yeah, I got to wrestle one of those sumos. (laughter) He let me win a little bit. (laughter) And then it was over. >> Did you have to wear the outfit? >> Luckily no. That was good for everybody. Yeah, you know, I think ... A few years ago, it was all about big data. And it was all about how much data they could get in. And I think you saw some announcements from AWS today. Really people are getting their hands around it. Now it's all about fast data. Like what can I do in real time? And that's what people are struggling with. They have this massive amount of data that's just sitting there unused. And people weren't actually getting value out of to drive the business. And that's really the next goal I think over the next few years is how can our customers and these companies get more value out of data they have without having to invest in all this costly infrastructure to do it? >> I think a few years ago, it was big data. I'm going to take the compute and I'm going to move it to the data. >> Yeah. >> Now, last year at Re:Invent, talked to a lot of the companies. They're working with Hadoop and the like, and they said the data lakes are now in the public cloud. >> Ben: Yes. >> But now I've got edge computing. I kind of have the data side, the public cloud, and the edge. And I'm never going to get all my data in the same place so how am I managing all of those various pools of data? >> Ben: Yeah. >> How do I make sure I get the right data in the right place so I can make the decisions that I need to when I need to? >> Yeah, it's a good question. So, a lot of what we're trying to do now is trying to help customers get the data in the way they want it. Just like you said. So, before, it might have been about here's our standard way. And here's our agent. You go install that. Now we're trying to provide ways for them to get the data in they want. We're providing APIs and basically trying to move towards becoming more of a platform. So the customers are sending us with third party tools they like. Because I was talking to one of my developers. And I asked him, if somebody came and said to you, you need to change the way you produce your data to use this product, what is he going to say? And he used a four letter word I can't repeat. That's how they think about it. They don't want to have to change the way they do things. So what we do is we provide lots of different ways of getting from multiple clouds from multiple tools. Open source tools. We don't care. Making it as easy as possible to get the data in. >> You know, if Stu and I were different clients of yours. What matters to Stu is much different that what matters to me, right? So how do you go about helping determine access to data in a context that I want it, >> Ben: Yeah. as opposed to the data that Stu wants at the time that he wants it? Cause it's just not about finding real time stuff, right? It's about also finding value at it. >> Ben: Yeah. >> And helping me put action to it. >> You know absolutely John. So I think there's a couple different ways. One is making it easy to get the data in like we just talked about. Another way is actually building a COSMO that matches how you use the data. The typical way that analytics tools have done it in the past, including us before, was kind of a one size fits all model. So last year we announced our unified logs and metric product which was trying to appeal to long term trending. And so now, what we're moving towards as well is providing a model that allows our customers, we call it cloud flex. It allows them to organize their data in the way that makes the most sense. So, maybe you want to keep your security data for a year. But you want to keep your operational data for seven days. That's fine. But organizing the way that makes most sense to you and match your cost to your data. I mean, this is the path that I think AWS has really set. That we're basically meeting customers where they're at. Allowing them to use it. And the second thing is also making easy for their customers to get to that data. And use it in the way they like. So you can make it easy to get in, cost efficient model, and then make it really easy for the user to get to that data. >> Ben, who are you working with the most? Maybe you're working across all these but Amazon was talking a lot about the data scientist this morning. All the ETL challenges >> Yeah. >> that are happening. I know there's a big boost for developers. I expect there's probably something with Lambda >> Yeah. >> that you're involved in. But what are some of those hot button issues that you're seeing across some of the customer roles? >> Sure, sure. I think one thing where you say that with data scientist. I mean we all know that there's a data scientist shortage. We have data scientists at Sumo Logic. They're hard to find. And so part of this is making it, one of the hot button issues is can I get people that don't have that background access to the data? And so, I may want to geek out and write inquiries and staying up to 2:00 a.m. writing that. Most people don't. That's (mumble), right? Not surprising. >> Stu: Right. >> So, a lot of that is how can you make it easier for our developers for example that have another job to do. This is not their main job. To get access to that data and use it. And so for example, one of the things we've done for customers we did for ourselves at Sumo is even making that data accessible to other parts of the business. So for example, our sales reps at Sumo Logic actually use that data to drive the customer interactions. So they can go to a customer and say, hey, we're seeing how you're using a tool. We think you could get value out of these other five things. And work with them in a constructive way. For example, a couple of other clients I've worked with. They're actually using the data in their marketing departments and their sales departments and putting this up on the wall so that other parts of the business are getting access to it beyond dev ops and IT ops, which is huge value to them, right? >> Sumo, I'm just curious. Sumo Logic, umm, where from the name? What's the genesis of that? >> Well the official story is that it's about Sumo, big data. The real story is that our founder Christian loves dogs. And he has a dog named Sumo. And so, it really fit well. It fit the name cause of big data but it also it fit it because he had a >> Alright. >> he had a dog named Sumo. >> I'll buy that. Just curious. Ben, thanks for being with us. We appreciate the time here on theCUBE and you could have taken him I know, if you really wanted to. >> I appreciate that. >> You could have, no doubt. (laughter) Ben Newton. Analytics lead at Sumo Logic joining us here on theCUBE. Back with more from AWS Summit in New York right after this break. (upbeat techno music)

>> Announcer: Live, from Manhattan, it's theCUBE. Covering AWS Summit New York City 2017. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services. >> John Walls: Welcome back here at the Javits Center. We're in midtown, New York, with Stu Miniman, I'm John Walls, here on theCUBE, continuing our coverage here all day, livestreaming from AWS Summit. Thanks for being with us here. Aaron Newman now joins us, he's the co-founder and CEO of CrowdCheckr, and... CloudCheckr rather, and Aaron, the first employee of the company, period, to be on theCUBE, so you're really breaking out in a big way today. >> Yeah, thanks for having us here, and we're excited to be a part of this. >> I see your tag, first I thought it was "I love AWS," and then I saw it closer, "I CloudChecked AWS." >> Absolutely, but also we love AWS. So it works either way. >> So, CloudCheckr, first off tell us a little bit about you, and then how did you get here? >> Okay so, CloudCheckr is a software company. I am the CEO and one of the founders of it. Been around about six years. We build software to help enable, um, enable you to move workloads into the cloud and then manage them successfully. So there's lots of challenges as you move, and how you're going to deal with those is a little different than you did in your data center, so it's important you have the right tools, and processes, and people in place, to manage that move. >> So is the game changing any in that respect? Has it changed any in the last year or two? Is it just that you've got more options now? >> Well, I mean absolutely, this is the disruption for our generation, right? This idea of moving from the data center into the cloud is that disruption. Previously, it was the internet was the big disruption. The cloud is really this generation's disruption, and it's really a matter of how quickly are people moving workloads. Every year AWS gets more mature, they offer more services and more regions, you know, more robust service, so it's just a case of how quickly can people move workloads over. If you go back to a couple years, people thought this was for test workloads, dev workloads. It's just not the case. It's for production workloads, and the people who are taking advantage of it have a competitive advantage today. >> This is a real complex space, so last year at re:Invent I believe, Amazon gave a presentation, they were like, the eight R's to get from where you were to where you want to be. There's lift-and-shift was replatform, there was refactoring, you know, to completely building from scratch, to kind of just trying to move the whole piece. What are you seeing from customers, I'm sure it's a lot of everything, but what are kind of some of the main challenges, what's really slowing things down, and what is changing over the last couple of years? >> Yeah, absolutely, I mean change never comes fast enough, and we'd all love to be able to rewrite all our apps to work in the cloud the way that it was meant to, and that's the right and the best way to do it, you're just going to get way more return in terms of cost and security, and all the other great things that come out of the cloud, but the fact is most people are still lifting and shifting, right? They're taking their apps the way that it ran at the data center, moving into the cloud. And so you see some advantages, but you just clearly don't see the real 10x advantages. So most people are doing that, and it's just that it's expensive. New workloads, as they go in, are architected with this cloud in mind, and that's really powerful, and that's great, but it's going to take time, and it's not going to take five years, it's not going to take ten years, it's going to take 20, 30, 40 years to really get rid of all this old architecture, and convert it over. The same way nobody's putting anything on a mainframe today, but there's a whole lot of the world that's still run by mainframes, right? But you would never put a new app on a mainframe. >> Yeah, if you look at refresh cycles, you know, your server, your network takes a certain amount of time, it's your applications that's a huge amount of time, and the problem we had is, I think back and most of your applications, they kind of suck, and your users of those applications would love for you to update them. So the migration costs are so high, how do we get over that hump? >> Well, it is just going to take time for the refresh cycles, but even more important, I think we need to start looking at going back to the universities. Are universities teaching the right architectures for how to build this stuff? And I can go for hours and hours on some of the minute details, but the idea was, I used to have an application, I'd buy 20 servers, and that's what I ran it on. Now it's like, I build an application, and I don't know where it's really going to sit, it's going to sit on a server somewhere, and that server may use it for minutes or hours, and then it may be on a different server, and all of a sudden you have to think about, how am I going to architect, how am I going to write the code, how am I going to deploy that code? All that stuff is a little different than when you had 20 servers. How am I going to patch it for security holes? So we need to be educating people about that. We need to show them how to do that, back to universities, continuing education programs, all of that, needs to get brought up to date. >> A couple years ago, it seemed like security was the thing that would stop a lot of people, to say, "I'm not ready to go into it." We were talking to one of the Amazon spokespeople about security, and it seems that it's almost a driver now, because I know I need to stay up to date, I need to manage my security much closer, and in many ways, if you're running on Amazon, if you're running on Azure, if you're running on a public hub, they're going to manage some of the patching and testing and everything. So what are you seeing in kind of the security landscape? Is it an opportunity, is it still a challenge? Is it still some of both? >> I think you're absolutely right, security was the biggest fear factor that people were like, and I'm from Rochester, New York, and there are some more older, old-school technology companies there that, their attitude was, "We're not going to go to the cloud, because we don't know where the data sits," and there's a lot of server huggers, that if I can't see the server, it's not secure, and that's just not the case. Let me start with, Amazon has way better security people than you could hire, right? They just have a scale, caliber, programs, all of that that's so much better than anyone else. And you know what, if you had any question about it, the day the head of technology, the CIO for the CIA, stood on stage at an Amazon conference, and said we are going to the cloud, it's like if you think your security needs to be higher than the CIA's, you're wrong. So, it absolutely does, if you do things in the cloud properly, it can be 10 times more secure than what you're in your own data center, right? But you need to do things like think about, how am I doing deployment, so I can get out patches, right? What's the big problem with security in the data center is I have a patch, it hits, and it's going to take me a year to get that out to my 10,000 servers. In the cloud, if I've done things where I have this idea of no-patching strategies, and redeploying instantaneously, then you could fix a patch in a day, right? And all of a sudden it can create a much more secure world, where we don't have these ransomware problems. You don't have all these worms and such causing havoc. >> Go ahead, John. >> You touched on something just a few minutes ago, and you're talking about 20, 30, 40 years, right, catching up, and legacy systems, and people who can leapfrog, and I'm thinking, that's like this perpetual cycle of never catching up, because the technology innovates so quickly, and things are moving so fast. So somebody that might feel like they're really behind? How do they ever just relax and get there if they feel like they really can't catch up? >> Well, so I guess I'll start by saying that people in this room are on the leading edge, and I like to say if you're not bleeding, you're not leading, right? If you're on that leading edge, you're going to have more challenges, you're not going to be able to relax and take it easy. The question is, you know, do you want to be a firm that's trying to take advantage of every competitive edge they can, trying to drive a little bit more, then you're not going to be relaxed. That's just the state of technology today is, it is a marathon, it's not a sprint. But that means you have to find a pace that's appropriate for you, and if you're a brand new software company, like CloudCheckr, I've never bought a server, I built everything in the cloud day-one, so I never have the old legacy architecture. That makes my life much easier. If I am the postal service, it's going to take me a long time to get off the system, and that's just the fact of life, you know. You don't have to throw away your old apps, they'll be around for a long time, but be proactive about saying, "I'm going to build something new," do it the right way so you don't have to wait for a refresh cycle for that. >> Walls: Right, gotcha. >> I mean think about, on the mainframe, remember some of the problems with getting apps off the mainframe was? Nobody had the source code anymore. You couldn't fix Y2K bugs, because you didn't have source code, so you couldn't redeploy it, because they wrote code, and the person that wrote it retired 15 years ago, and now what do I do? I'm stuck. So we're going to be in that same scenario for a long time. >> The other place where you're involved is, once we'd actually got in the cloud, how do we make sure my expenses don't just run away? So you know, maybe talk to us a little bit about that. Amazon's always an interesting one. I was talking in our intro this morning, early in this year, I was talking to a lot of SMB customers that were just like, Google's really attractive, and Amazon doesn't seem to be listening to us, and a week after the Google conference, Amazon changed their pricing, to be able to really match what Google's doing. So what are the some of the biggest challenges in pricing, how are you helping customers, where are some of the pitfalls that they're seeing? >> I mean, absolutely, AWS is the smartest people out there, they know when they need to change and pivot, and somehow they're a billion dollar company that can still pivot, which is a miracle. I don't know how they do it, but they are amazing at that. But let me start by giving you a little of the analogy of, think back to in the 1850's when you had power plants. Everybody built their own power plant, right? And it would cost a million dollars to build a power plant, and then most of your power would be free, right? And then they decided, let's build power plants, I'll spend 50 million dollars to build it, and then everyone will use that, right? We're in the same place now, 150 years later, but it's just different, it's technology. Instead of building a data center and spending millions of dollars on it, instead Amazon has built a data center that's designed for everybody to use, and it's so much more efficient to do that, just like, God, who would build their own power plant anymore? That's the analogy. But think about the other side of it, though, is now if I'm getting my power from a power plant, well I got to start putting in a meter, and understanding turning off the lights at night, and I got to put windows in to keep the heat in the house, and put insulation, right? So we're in the same situation. Yes, Amazon is cheaper, except if you turn all of your servers on, you leave them on, and you don't meter it, you don't understand it, you don't try to put insulation in. So you got to do those things in the cloud. It was easy before, because I just paid for the servers and I was done. Now it's complicated, but it's complicated because you're going to save a lot of money if you do it right. But you know, I love to make that analogy of the physical world, we're no different. You got to actually do things to get your build out. >> Are you starting to see many customers looking at Lambda, because that's something, at least many customers we've talked to, significantly reduced the cost of your infrastructure, because it's not just, I'm choosing when to use it, but only when the function calls it. >> So I think, AWS, you can effectively drive your cost to zero by using the cloud, and by effectively, it never gets to zero, but you can really keep driving it down the more work you put into it. But there's a balance, right? If you put too much work, you offset the savings you're going to have, right? So you go to the cloud, and you start doing work, more work to reduce costs by rightsizing, turning things off, and then you say, let me go to Lambda, because that's even cheaper, but today Lambda still, it doesn't have all the bells and whistles, it's still very much the bleeding edge. So, if you can do it, if you have a fresh application, the expertise to do it, it's a great place to go, and I think in 20 years, everybody's going to be doing everything serverless, all new stuff. We're very early though, right now. We're still inventing this stuff, we're still figuring it out, we're still trying to understand how do I structure an entire application using this serverless architecture? It's trickier than doing it, when you go out there and you try to find 20 programmers to run a project, to get ones that know how to build serverless is very hard, so that's the real challenge. It's not the technology challenge, it's the people, where am I going to find the resources, how much is it going to cost me, all of that. >> I'm still thinking about the power plant. I'm still back in 1850 right now. (laughs) Thanks for being with us. >> You're welcome. >> I appreciate the time here on theCUBE, and best of luck down the road, and glad to see that you are cloudchecking with AWS. >> Check your cloud before you wreck your cloud, right? >> There you go, alright. Aaron Newman, CloudCheckr. Continuing our coverage, we are just a moment here from AWS Summit 2017, we are live at the Javits Center, in New York City. (electronic music)