>> From the SiliconANGLE media office in Boston, Massachusetts, it's theCUBE! Now, here's your host, Dave Vellante. >> Hi, everybody, welcome to this special CUBE Conversation. You know, big data workloads have evolved, and the infrastructure that runs big data workloads is also evolving. Big data, AI, other emerging workloads need infrastructure that can keep up. Welcome to this special CUBE Conversation with Patrick Osborne, who's the vice president and GM of big data and secondary storage at Hewlett Packard Enterprise, @patrick_osborne. Great to see you again, thanks for coming on. >> Great, love to be back here. >> As I said up front, big data's changing. It's evolving, and the infrastructure has to also evolve. What are you seeing, Patrick, and what's HPE seeing in terms of the market forces right now driving big data and analytics? >> Well, some of the things that we see in the data center, there is a continuous move to move from bare metal to virtualized. Everyone's on that train. To containerization of existing apps, your apps of record, business, mission-critical apps. But really, what a lot of folks are doing right now is adding additional services to those applications, those data sets, so, new ways to interact, new apps. A lot of those are being developed with a lot of techniques that revolve around big data and analytics. We're definitely seeing the pressure to modernize what you have on-prem today, but you know, you can't sit there and be static. You gotta provide new services around what you're doing for your customers. A lot of those are coming in the form of this Mode 2 type of application development. >> One of the things that we're seeing, everybody talks about digital transformation. It's the hot buzzword of the day. To us, digital means data first. Presumably, you're seeing that. Are organizations organizing around their data, and what does that mean for infrastructure? >> Yeah, absolutely. We see a lot of folks employing not only technology to do that. They're doing organizational techniques, so, peak teams. You know, bringing together a lot of different functions. Also, too, organizing around the data has become very different right now, that you've got data out on the edge, right? It's coming into the core. A lot of folks are moving some of their edge to the cloud, or even their core to the cloud. You gotta make a lot of decisions and be able to organize around a pretty complex set of places, physical and virtual, where your data's gonna lie. >> There's a lot of talk, too, about the data pipeline. The data pipeline used to be, you had an enterprise data warehouse, and the pipeline was, you'd go through a few people that would build some cubes and then they'd hand off a bunch of reports. The data pipeline, it's getting much more complex. You've got the edge coming in, you've got, you know, core. You've got the cloud, which can be on-prem or public cloud. Talk about the evolution of the data pipeline and what that means for infrastructure and big data workloads. >> For a lot of our customers, and we've got a pretty interesting business here at HPE. We do a lot with the Intelligent Edge, so, our Edgeline servers in Aruba, where a a lot of the data is sitting outside of the traditional data center. Then we have what's going on in the core, which, for a lot of customers, they are moving from either traditional EDW, right, or even Hadoop 1.0 if they started that transformation five to seven years ago, to, a lot of things are happening now in real time, or a combination thereof. The data types are pretty dynamic. Some of that is always getting processed out on the edge. Results are getting sent back to the core. We're also seeing a lot of folks move to real-time data analytics, or some people call it fast data. That sits in your core data center, so utilizing things like Kafka and Spark. A lot of the techniques for persistent storage are brand new. What it boils down to is, it's an opportunity, but it's also very complex for our customers. >> What about some of the technical trends behind what's going on with big data? I mean, you've got sprawl, with both data sprawl, you've got workload sprawl. You got developers that are dealing with a lot of complex tooling. What are you guys seeing there, in terms of the big mega-trends? >> We have, as you know, HPE has quite a few customers in the mid-range in enterprise segments. We have some customers that are very tech-forward. A lot of those customers are moving from this, you know, Hadoop 1.0, Hadoop 2.0 system to a set of essentially mixed workloads that are very multi-tenant. We see customers that have, essentially, a mix of batch-oriented workloads. Now they're introducing these streaming type of workloads to folks who are bringing in things like TensorFlow and GPGPUs, and they're trying to apply some of the techniques of AI and ML into those clusters. What we're seeing right now is that that is causing a lot of complexity, not only in the way you do your apps, but the number of applications and the number of tenants who use that data. It's getting used all day long for various different, so now what we're seeing is it's grown up. It started as an opportunity, a science project, the POC. Now it's business-critical. Becoming, now, it's very mission-critical for a lot of the services that drives. >> Am I correct that those diverse workloads used to require a bespoke set of infrastructure that was very siloed? I'm inferring that technology today will allow you to bring those workloads together on a single platform. Is that correct? >> A couple of things that we offer, and we've been helping customers to get off the complexity train, but provide them flexibility and elasticity is, a lot of the workloads that we did in the past were either very vertically-focused and integrated. One app server, networking, storage, to, you know, the beginning of the analytics phase was really around symmetrical clusters and scaling them out. Now we've got a very rich and diverse set of components and infrastructure that can essentially allow a customer to make a data lake that's very scalable. Compute, storage-oriented nodes, GPU-oriented nodes, so it's very flexible and helps us, helps the customers take complexity out of their environment. >> In thinking about, when you talk to customers, what are they struggling with, specifically as it relates to infrastructure? Again, we talked about tooling. I mean, Hadoop is well-known for the complexity of the tooling. But specifically from an infrastructure standpoint, what are the big complaints that you hear? >> A couple things that we hear is that my budget's flat for the next year or couple years, right? We talked earlier in the conversation about, I have to modernize, virtualize, containerizing my existing apps, that means I have to introduce new services as well with a very different type of DevOps, you know, mode of operations. That's all with the existing staff, right? That's the number one issue that we hear from the customers. Anything that we can do to help increase the velocity of deployment through automation. We hear now, frankly, the battle is for whether I'm gonna run these type of workloads on-prem versus off-prem. We have a set of technology as well as services, enabling services with Pointnext. You remember the acquisition we made around cloud technology partners to right-place where those workloads are gonna go and become like a broker in that conversation and assist customers to make that transition and then, ultimately, give them an elastic platform that's gonna scale for the diverse set of workloads that's well-known, sized, easy to deploy. >> As you get all this data, and the data's, you know, Hadoop, it sorta blew up the data model. Said, "Okay, we'll leave the data where it is, "we'll bring the compute there." You had a lot of skunk works projects growing. What about governance, security, compliance? As you have data sprawl, how are customers handling that challenge? Is it a challenge? >> Yeah, it certainly is a challenge. I mean, we've gone through it just recently with, you know, GDPR is implemented. You gotta think about how that's gonna fit into your workflow, and certainly security. The big thing that we see, certainly, is around if the data's residing outside of your traditional data center, that's a big issue. For us, when we have Edgeline servers, certainly a lot of things are coming in over wireless, there's a big buildout in advent of 5G coming out. That certainly is an area that customers are very concerned about in terms of who has their data, who has access to it, how can you tag it, how can you make sure it's secure. That's a big part of what we're trying to provide here at HPE. >> What specifically is HPE doing to address these problems? Products, services, partnerships, maybe you could talk about that a little bit. Maybe even start with, you know, what's your philosophy on infrastructure for big data and AI workloads? >> I mean, for us, we've over the last two years have really concentrated on essentially two areas. We have the Intelligent Edge, which is, certainly, it's been enabled by fantastic growth with our Aruba products in the networks in space and our Edgeline systems, so, being able to take that type of compute and get it as far out to the edge as possible. The other piece of it is around making hybrid IT simple, right? In that area, we wanna provide a very flexible, yet easy-to-deploy set of infrastructure for big data and AI workloads. We have this concept of the Elastic Platform for Analytics. It helps customers deploy that for a whole myriad of requirements. Very compute-oriented, storage-oriented, GPUs, cold and warm data lakes, for that matter. And the third area, what we've really focused on is the ecosystem that we bring to our customers as a portfolio company is evolving rapidly. As you know, in this big data and analytics workload space, the software development portion of it is super dynamic. If we can bring a vetted, well-known ecosystem to our customers as part of a solution with advisory services, that's definitely one of the key pieces that our customers love to come to HP for. >> What about partnerships around things like containers and simplifying the developer experience? >> I mean, we've been pretty public about some of our efforts in this area around OneSphere, and some of these, the models around, certainly, advisory services in this area with some recent acquisitions. For us, it's all about automation, and then we wanna be able to provide that experience to the customers, whether they want to develop those apps and deploy on-prem. You know, we love that. I think you guys tag it as true private cloud. But we know that the reality is, most people are embracing very quickly a hybrid cloud model. Given the ability to take those apps, develop them, put them on-prem, run them off-prem is pretty key for OneSphere. >> I remember Antonio Neri, when you guys announced Apollo, and you had the astronaut there. Antonio was just a lowly GM and VP at the time, and now he's, of course, CEO. Who knows what's in the future? But Apollo, generally at the time, it was like, okay, this is a high-performance computing system. We've talked about those worlds, HPC and big data coming together. Where does a system like Apollo fit in this world of big data workloads? >> Yeah, so we have a very wide product line for Apollo that helps, you know, some of them are very tailored to specific workloads. If you take a look at the way that people are deploying these infrastructures now, multi-tenant with many different workloads. We allow for some compute-focused systems, like the Apollo 2000. We have very balanced systems, the Apollo 4200, that allow a very good mix of CPU, memory, and now customers are certainly moving to flash and storage-class memory for these type of workloads. And then, Apollo 6500 were some of the newer systems that we have. Big memory footprint, NVIDIA GPUs allowing you to do very high calculations rates for AI and ML workloads. We take that and we aggregate that together. We've made some recent acquisitions, like Plexxi, for example. A big part of this is around simplification of the networking experience. You can probably see into the future of automation of the networking level, automation of the compute and storage level, and then having a very large and scalable data lake for customers' data repositories. Object, file, HTFS, some pretty interesting trends in that space. >> Yeah, I'm actually really super excited about the Plexxi acquisition. I think it's because flash, it used to be the bottleneck was the spinning disk, flash pushes the bottleneck largely to the network. Plexxi gonna allow you guys to scale, and I think actually leapfrog some of the other hyperconverged players that are out there. So, super excited to see what you guys do with that acquisition. It sounds like your focus is on optimizing the design for I/O. I'm sure flash fits in there as well. >> And that's a huge accelerator for, even when you take a look at our storage business, right? So, 3PAR, Nimble, All-Flash, certainly moving to NVMe and storage-class memory for acceleration of other types of big data databases. Even though we're talking about Hadoop today, right now, certainly SAP HANA, scale-out databases, Oracle, SQL, all these things play a part in the customer's infrastructure. >> Okay, so you were talking before about, a little bit about GPUs. What is this HPE Elastic Platform for big data analytics? What's that all about? >> I mean, we have a lot of the sizing and scalability falls on the shoulders of our customers in this space, especially in some of these new areas. What we've done is, we have, it's a product/a concept, and what we do is we have this, it's called the Elastic Platform for Analytics. It allows, with all those different components that I rattled off, all great systems in of their own, but when it comes to very complex multi-tenant workloads, what we do is try to take the mystery out of that for our customers, to be able to deploy that cookie-cutter module. We're even gonna get to a place pretty soon where we're able to offer that as a consumption-based service so you don't have to choose for an elastic type of acquisition experience between on-prem and off-prem. We're gonna provide that as well. It's not only a set of products. It's reference architectures. We do a lot of sizing with our partners. The Hortonworks, CloudEra's, MapR's, and a lot of the things that are out in the open source world. It's pretty good. >> We've been covering big data, as you know, for a long, long time. The early days of big data was like, "Oh, this is great, "we're just gonna put white boxes out there "and off the shelf storage!" Well, that changed as big data got, workloads became more enterprise, mainstream, they needed to be enterprise-ready. But my question to you is, okay, I hear you. You got products, you got services, you got perspectives, a philosophy. Obviously, you wanna sell some stuff. What has HPE done internally with regard to big data? How have you transformed your own business? >> For us, we wanna provide a really rich experience, not just products. To do that, you need to provide a set of services and automation, and what we've done is, with products and solutions like InfoSight, we've been able to, we call it AI for the Data Center, or certainly, the tagline of predictive analytics is something that Nimble's brought to the table for a long time. To provide that level of services, InfoSight, predictive analytics, AI for the Data Center, we're running our own big data infrastructure. It started a number of years ago even on our 3PAR platforms and other products, where we had scale-up databases. We moved and transitioned to batch-oriented Hadoop. Now we're fully embedded with real-time streaming analytics that come in every day, all day long, from our customers and telemetry. We're using AI and ML techniques to not only improve on what we've done that's certainly automating for the support experience, and making it easy to manage the platforms, but now introducing things like learning, automation engines, the recommendation engines for various things for our customers to take, essentially, the hands-on approach of managing the products and automate it and put into the products. So, for us, we've gone through a multi-phase, multi-year transition that's brought in things like Kafka and Spark and Elasticsearch. We're using all these techniques in our system to provide new services for our customers as well. >> Okay, great. You're practitioners, you got some street cred. >> Absolutely. >> Can I come back on InfoSight for a minute? It came through an acquisition of Nimble. It seems to us that you're a little bit ahead, and maybe you say a lot a bit ahead of the competition with regard to that capability. How do you see it? Where do you see InfoSight being applied across the portfolio, and how much of a lead do you think you have on competitors? >> I'm paranoid, so I don't think we ever have a good enough lead, right? You always gotta stay grinding on that front. But we think we have a really good product. You know, it speaks for itself. A lot of the customers love it. We've applied it to 3PAR, for example, so we came out with some, we have VMVision for a 3PAR that's based on InfoSight. We've got some things in the works for other product lines that are imminent pretty soon. You can think about what we've done for Nimble and 3PAR, we can apply similar type of logic to Elastic Platform for Analytics, like running at that type of cluster scale to automate a number of items that are pretty pedantic for the customers to manage. There's a lot of work going on within HPE to scale that as a service that we provide with most of our products. >> Okay, so where can I get more information on your big data offerings and what you guys are doing in that space? >> Yeah, so, we have, you can always go to hp.com/bigdata. We've got some really great information out there. We're in our run-up to our big end user event that we do every June in Las Vegas. It's HPE Discover. We have about 15,000 of our customers and trusted partners there, and we'll be doing a number of talks. I'm doing some work there with a British telecom. We'll give some great talks. Those'll be available online virtually, so you'll hear about not only what we're doing with our own InfoSight and big data services, but how other customers like BTE and 21st Century Fox and other folks are applying some of these techniques and making a big difference for their business as well. >> That's June 19th to the 21st. It's at the Sands Convention Center in between the Palazzo and the Venetian, so it's a good conference. Definitely check that out live if you can, or if not, you can all watch online. Excellent, Patrick, thanks so much for coming on and sharing with us this big data evolution. We'll be watching. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> And thank you for watcihing, everybody. We'll see you next time. This is Dave Vellante for theCUBE. (fast techno music)

>> Announcer: Live, from Las Vegas, It's the cube, covering VMWorld 2017, brought to you by VMWare and its ecosystem partners. (techno music) >> Welcome back, I'm Stu Miniman, joined by Keith Townsend, welcome back to the program, a multi-time cube-along. Patrick Osborne, who's the senior director of product management with Hewlett-Packard Enterprise. Patrick, great to see you. >> Great to be back, thanks for having me. >> Yeah, uh, what number VMWorld is this for you? >> Oh gosh, uh, it's, it's, I can't count it at this point, too many. >> Yeah, it's like I've been working with VMWare for 15 years, it's the eighth one of these for me. Keith, I know you've been few, so what's your take so far, the show? Big ecosystem, a lot of news going on. What do you think so far? >> Yeah so I mean, from my perspective, VMWare has been such a huge ecosystem partner for HP for forever, y'know? It covers everything from, y'know, from our perspective on the compute networking, storage side, certainly services. So um, y'know for me it's always good to catch up with, y'know, old colleagues and kind of understand what's going on in the industry. A lot of talk today around private cloud, multi-cloud, y'know, what people are doing around automation. Y'know certainly a lot of things around software defined, software defined networks, software defined storage, so uh, a lot of good topics, um, it's always good to see the customers here too, as well. >> Yeah uh, the joke a few years ago was VMWorld became storage world, so uh, y'know, in your space of availability, and data protection, y'know, and I walk through the show floor, HP's got a big boot but I see a lot of companies that are attacking different angles of that. You brought up the cloud being a, y'know increasing piece. >> What's top of mind, of a customers that are coming to you, and what sort of things are you working on these days? >> Yeah so, um, from our perspective on the storage and data management landscape, I think that you see a lot of vendors in the space right now. Some of them are certainly part of our ecosystem, you see folks like Veem and, y'know, other folks that we partner with out on the floor. There is an increased look from the customer perspective on availability. It's, the segment's changing, the requirements are changing. I don't think people are tackling availability in the same way as sort of traditional data protection architectures. So we see customers, especially when they're looking for certain inflection points in their infrastructure, like, I'm going to go to all flash, or y'know, deploy some new storage. They're definitely rethinking the way they're doing availability from an application standpoint. So we're uh, we're trying to y'know, meet those market demands through our own technologies, as well as having a pretty robust ecosystem here that we barter with. >> So a lot of talk, not just at this show, but at previous HP shows about hybrid IT. It's obvious the data center isn't going anywhere for the majority of customers, but we have the complexity of cloud. How does cloud impact, practically, data protection, data availability. >> Yeah so uh, from our perspective it's certainly an opportunity, right, to help customers out. We have a, we've, y'know, from a strategy standpoint, we've put a couple solutions and things into market that we hope address some of these cases. So y'know, when you talk about Nimble cloud volumes, right, being able to have your data in a co-located facility very close to, y'know, public clouds so you can do some compute arbitrage, and ultimately be able to, y'know, control your data. And then we do other things for example, Store one's cloud bay, being able to back up to the cloud, which is a pretty established use case. I think from our perspective, helping customers make that move in terms of, um, y'know, you can set up the data path, and make the bits move, but when we talk to mid-size, especially large enterprise customers, the governance around that, I think is really important, And the user experience, to make sure that what you're sending out to the cloud is certainly protected, it's audited. We've even had customers coming to us, we just had a big customer that you've had on here before, 21st Century Fox, right, a big customer of HPE talk last week about, I want to back up workloads that are in the cloud to the cloud, right? There's not a lot of great tools for that today, and I want that audited, and I want y'know, a paper trail around that for their own internal uh, capabilities. So I think there's a lot of opportunities in the space. It's very nascent. >> Yeah, Patrick I think you're bringing up a great point. We were talking a lot at this show, kind of the multi-cloud world. I've got my maturation of what's happening in my data center, deploying a bunch of sass on one or multiple public clouds. And there's certain things like security or y'know, data protection availability. I need to get my arms around all of it. HPE's looking to fill some of those y'know, gaps, and help customers, y'know. What's the overriding story in y'know how you're not one of the big three public cloud providers, but why does HP have a position in this discussion, and maybe you can help us kind of round out that story a little. >> Yeah so, we have a position in that discussion because of, y'know, we are very large infrastructure provider to a lot of customers, right? In terms of providing on-prem, hybrid IT experiences. From a public cloud perspective, we're very sort of, public in our strategy of not having a public cloud within HPE, but we certainly partner with folks and we've got a very long standing partnership with Microsoft. We come to market with things like Azure Stack, and we have a number of integrations we do with things like Nimble, and um, in that area we resell y'know, Azure, from an HPE standpoint. So we're really looking to provide y'know, a full experience for customers in that space. And y'know, the other day, like you said before, people are still going to buy and deploy in their data center, right? But, they want to buy and deploy in their data center with the thought that um, y'know multi-cloud is going to be a possibility, and they want to have the infrastructure that's going to allow them to do that. So what we're doing is incrementally, in our product portfolio, I care about storage, right, is to be able to provide those experiences. I buy a 3PAR all flash, I want to be able to tier that or back that up to the cloud. I have Nimble, right, I want to be able to replicate that to a co-located provider that provides Nimble cloud volumes, and then assign compute to and from the cloud, right. So a bunch of things that we want to get customers ready for, and make it easier for them. >> So can we talk a little bit more about that Nimble story? Y'know, the 3PAR, we understand it. It is, covers a great depth of use cases in enterprise, where does Nimble fit in the strategy? Yeah, um so we're super excited to have Nimble in the portfolio for three reasons. They have a great team, number one, they bring a really good go to market engine, and the sales team, y'know, with that, and they have great products. So from the product angle, which we're very interested in, is a couple different areas. Infosite, predictive analytics, right, is something that we want to apply to our entire product line, hands down. So the things that they do around VM Vision, right, with um, with VMWare, we want to apply that to 3PAR, right, and essentially give the people the simplicity that it takes to manage a very large virtualized environment. They have a lot of things that they've done that are very unique. I mentioned Nimble cloud volumes before, that's a use case for primary storage, but could easily be extended to backup, data protection, object storage, right, as not only just a technology provider, but as a way to price it, consume that type of storage. And then they also bring a number of things around, in the availability space, which we find is very interesting. Secondary flash, right. So you think, all flash as high performance maybe a higher cost, right? But certainly is going to help you with that application acceleration. They just, we just released the Nimble secondary flash array for workloads that are tech-dev cloned workloads, y'know, things you can automate, and that you need some performance on it. But it's more performance than your backup storage, not as much cost and not as much storage as your primary. So think about secondary flash as flash for secondary workloads. Very cost optimized. More performance, maybe a little bit more expensive than your backup tier. So there's a lot of things that they bring to the table from a technology standpoint that we want to take advantage of. >> Patrick, HPE's got a broad portfolio, but still to meet all the needs of the customers, especially in like, the divergals niche ecosystem, acquires a lot of partnerships. Where are the, kind of the deep integrations that your team's been doing, where are the places where customers have been asking you to kind of pull things in, and any solutions that you want to highlight specifically? Yeah so, um, I think more and more what you start to see is portfolio vendors, like HPE, they bring great technology that we build organically, or that we go and acquire. I think one of the big things that customers rely on us as well, that doesn't get a lot of air play is that we bring in a vetted ecosystem to a customer. Y'know, so the whole kit and caboodle, from compute networking storage, services to bring that all together, and an ecosystem that's supported, and we basically HPE stamp of quality and support behind that so, y'know when it comes to VMWare, obviously this has a huge ecosystem. So we do a lot with, y'know, innovating with VMWare. I mentioned Nimble, VM Vision, things we're doing there to make hypervisor environments quite a bit more easy to implement for customers from a storage angle. You talked to Jessie from the SimpliVity standpoint. We do a lot around data protection, with certain things, with 3PAR, Nimble. So there's a lot on integrations that we do in, for VMWare specifically, and then in other areas of the portfolio, especially automation, right. So we've got fully supported solutions, I think we've got one of the best docker implementations for storage with Nimble. Huge partnerships with Puppet and Kubernetes, and Sheb, all these great things around the automation side. So when we go out and partner with somebody, we're going to go provide a whole solution, a complete solution to a customer that's vetted, RA's, supported, so from my perspective, partnering is actually one of the most important things we do at HPE. >> So, from a customer's perspective, HPE hugely important, key industry player for most CIO's, you guys are still very very trusted in that area, you have a huge ecosystem, huge portfolio, what should CIO's, CTO's, high level architects be focused on at this point? What's like, the consistent theme that you're telling your customers you really need to pay atttention to this part of the industry? >> So, from a corporate perspective, we've got a couple of things that we're working on, right. So we talk about hybrid IT, right. And that sort of transformation from, I would call it established methodologies of application and development to y'know, sort of new style. And we're definitely helping customers along that journey, and a lot of it is around bringing this vetted portfolio and ecosystem along with the services. So the services I think is one thing that, um, y'know HP is very unique in the fact that we've got a very very broad set of services, in terms of, y'know, we can go and help CIO's and CFO's and CTO's understand y'know, where are you along that journey, right. All the way to implementation, I think one of the things that we're going to be very very focused on over the next couple of years, is providing everything in our portfolio as consumption based pricing, right. So all the things that you like about the cloud, right, the things that are implied there are elasticity, right, agility, consumption based. You're moving from a cap-ex to an op-ex model, making that more predictable. So we want to be able to model that, and provide those experiences. Definitely one of the things that we're really focused on in HPE is IOT in the edge, right, so, that's a very fundamental part of our business that we're going to be looking at to make a lot of investments in big data. Certainly, some of the assets are on Edgeline and Aruba, and all the implications around security for that. So those are some of the key areas that we are, y'know, we talk to CIO's every day about. >> Patrick, from an availability and data protection standpoint, what does something like IOT mean? I have to think, we're not going to store all the data, lots of it's just going to be processed at the edge, we're talking a lot about edge so, I'm curious, what are the things that you're looking at, maybe start there, I think about like, containers, or a lot of times going to be something that is going to fit at that kind, maybe even serverless at the edge, so y'know, I seem to think back, y'know, when we talk about like oh, we're going to go to object store and therefore the way I do everything changes. So y'know, are we going to, couple years from now, is this going to be a very different discussion? >> Well I think, yeah, it's an interesting topic, right. When you talk about that volume of data, right, and the fact that it's very dispersed, right, being able to do, apply traditional availability techniques to something like that is um, it's difficult, it's next to impossible, right? So, um, y'know what we see is customers buying, in these type of ecosystems, you're not buying along horizontal lines, right. You're not buying a specific server vendor, or a networking vendor, or y'know, a storage vendor, and then going best of breed, trying to integrate that yourself. A lot of these things are vertically oriented now in terms of you're buying a stack, y'know, from a portfolio vendor or going to a service, y'know, an integrator. And I think with he volume of data that it takes to, to do some of these implementations, so we have very large customers, autonomous cars, y'know big, big implementations of Hadoop and analytics. I mean a lot of that stuff is built in. I think one thing you're starting to see is that, those types of deployments are outstripping or outpacing, y'know running away from the support of the traditional IT folks. So we have customers that are operationalizing, very large Hadoop customers for example, who don't have methodologies for backing that up and replicate it, so I think there's a lot of technology that needs to catch up with some of these implementations, we see it all the time. So, y'know, I think there's different techniques from a technology standpoint. Y'know, when we try to approach these from a customer perspective, we want to provide a full stack for edge, IOT, um, and but, from a data protection availability standpoint, that's a difficult problem to solve. >> Stu: Well Patrick Osborne, always a pleasure to catch up with you, thanks for all the updates here. Looking forward to tracking some of those, y'know, emerging areas that you were just-- >> Yeah, I look forward to talking to you guys in Discover in Madrid. >> Absolutely, so The Cube, so many events, check out siliconangle.tv, or actually thecube.net is where you're going to be able to see everything. Nice shorter url, you're going to keep the branding of The Cube, for Keith Townsend, I'm Stu Miniman, stay with us, watch more coverage here still to come. VM World 2017, you're watching The Cube. (techno music)