[Music] welcome to the great super cloud debate a power panel of three top technology industry analysts maribel lopez is here she's the founder and principal analyst at lopez research keith townsend is ceo and founder of the cto advisor and sanjeev mohan is principal at sanjmo super cloud is a term that we've used to describe the future of cloud architectures the idea is that super clouds are built on top of hyperscaler capex infrastructure and the idea is it goes beyond multi-cloud the premise being that multi-cloud is primarily a symptom of multi-vendor or m a or both and results in more stove we're going to talk about that super cloud's meant to connote a new architecture that leverages the underlying primitives of hyperscale clouds but hides and abstracts that complexity of each of their respective clouds and adds new value on top of that with services and a continuous experience a similar or identical experience across more than one cloud people may say hey that's multi-cloud we're going to talk about that as well so with that as brief background um i'd like to first welcome our painless guys thanks so much for coming on thecube it's great to see you all again great to be here thank you to be here so i'm going to start with maribel you know what i just described what's your reaction to that is it just like what like cloud is supposed to be is that really what multi-cloud is do you agree with the premise that multi-cloud has really been you know what like chuck whitten from dell calls it it's been multi-cloud by default i call it a symptom of multi-vendor what's your take on on what this is oh wow dave another term here we go right more more to define for people but okay the reality is i agree that it's time for something new something evolved right whether we call that super cloud or something else i you know i don't want to really debate the term but we need to move beyond where we are today in multi-cloud and into if we want to call it cloud 5 multi-cloud 2 whatever we want to call it i believe that we're at the next generation that we have to define what that next generation is but if you think about it we went from public to private to hybrid to multi and every time you have a discussion with somebody about cloud you spend 10 minutes defining what you're talking about so this doesn't seem any different to me so let's just go with super cloud for the moment and see where we go and you know if you're interested after everybody else makes their comments i got a few thoughts about what super cloud might mean as well yeah great so i and i agree with you when we like i said in a recent post you could call it cl cloud you know multi-cloud 2.0 but it's something different is happening and sanjeev i know you're not a you're not a big fan of buzz words either but i wonder if you could weigh in on this topic uh you mean by the way sanjeev is at the mit cdo iq conference a great conference uh in boston uh and so he's it's a public place so we're going to have i think you viewed his line when he's not speaking please go ahead yeah so you know i come from a pedigree of uh being an analyst of uh firms that love inventing new terms i am not a big fan of inventing new terms i feel that when we come up with a new term i spend all my time standing on a stage trying to define what it is it takes me away from trying to solve the problem so so i'm you know i find these terms to be uh words of convenience like for example big data you know big data to me may not mean anything but big data connotes some of this modern way of handling vast volumes of data that traditional systems could not handle so from that point of view i'm i'm completely okay with super cloud but just inventing a new term is what i have called in my previous sessions tyranny of jargons where we have just too many jargons and uh and they resonate with i.t people they do not resonate with the business people business people care about the problem they don't care about what we and i t called them yeah and i think this is a really important point that you make and by the way we're not trying to create a new industry category per se yeah we leave that to gartner that's why actually i like super cloud because nobody's going to use that no vendor's going to use the term super cloud it's just too buzzy so so but but but it brings up the point about practitioners and so keith i want to bring you in so the what we've talked about and i'll just sort of share some some thoughts on the problems that we see and and get keith get your practitioner view most clouds most companies use multiple clouds we all kind of agree on that i think and largely these clouds operate in silos and they have their own development environment their own operating environment different apis different primitives and the functionality of a particular cloud doesn't necessarily extend to other clouds so the problem is that increases friction for customers increases cost increases security risk and so there's this promise maribel multi-cloud 2.0 that's going to solve that problem so keith my question to you is is is that an accurate description of the problem that practitioners face today do what did i miss and i wonder if you could elaborate so i think we'll get into some of the detail later on why this is a problem specifically around technologies but if we think about it in the abstract most customers have their hands full dealing with one cloud like we'll you know through m a and such and you zoom in and you look at companies that have multiple clouds or multi-cloud from result of mma mna m a activity you'll see that most of that is in silos so organizationally the customer may have multiple clouds but sub orchid silos they're generally a single silo in a single cloud so as you think about being able to take advantage of of tooling across the multicloud of what dave you guys are calling the super cloud this becomes a serious problem it's just a skill problem it's too much capability uh across too many things that look completely different than another okay so dave can i pick up on that please i'd love i was gonna just go to you maribel please chime in here okay so if we think about what we're talking about with super cloud and what keith just mentioned remember when we went to see tcp ip and the whole idea was like how do we get computers to talk to each other in a more standardized way how do we get data to move in a more standardized way i think that the problem we have with multi-cloud right now is that we don't have that so i think that's sort of a ground level of getting us to your super cloud premise is that and and you know google's tried it with anthony's like everybody every hyperscaler has tried their like right one to run anywhere but that abstraction layer you talk about what whatever we want to call it is super necessary and it's sort of the foundation so if you really think about it we've spent like 15 years or so building out all the various components of cloud and now's the time to take it so that cloud is actually more of an operating model versus a place there's at least a base level of it that is vendor neutral and then to your point the value that's going to be built on top of that you know people been trying to commoditize the basic infrastructure for a while now and i think that's what you're seeing in your super cloud multi-cloud whatever you want to call it the infrastructure is the infrastructure and then what would have been traditionally that past layer and above is where we're going to start to see some real innovation but we still haven't gotten to that point where you can do visibility observability manageability across that really complex cloud stack that we have the reason i the reason i love that tcpip example hm is because it changed the industry and it had an ecosystem effect in sanjiv the the the example that i first example that i used was snowflake a company that you're very familiar with that is sort of hiding all that complexity and right and so we're not there yet but please chime in on this topic uh you gotta you gotta view it again uh after you building upon what maribel said you know to me uh this sounds like a multi-cloud operating system where uh you know you need that kind of a common uh set of primitives and layers because if you go in in the typical multi-cloud process you've got multiple identities and you can't have that you how can you govern if i'm if i have multiple identities i don't have observability i don't know what's going on across my different stacks so to me super cloud is that call it single pane of glass or or one way through which i'm unifying my experience my my technology interfaces my integration and uh and i as an end user don't even care which uh which cloud i'm in it makes no difference to me it makes a difference to the vendor the vendor may say this is coming from aws and this is coming from gcp or azure but to the end user it is a consistent experience with consistent id and and observability and governance so that to me makes it a big difference and so one of floyer's contribution conversation was in order to have a super cloud you got to have a super pass i'm like oh boy people are going to love that but the point being that that allows a consistent developer experience and to maribel's earlier point about tcp it explodes the ecosystem because the ecosystem can now write to that super pass if you will those apis so keith do you do do you buy that number one and number two do you see that industries financial services and healthcare are actually going to be on clouds or what we call super clouds so sanjeev hit on a really key aspect of this is identity let's make this real they you love talk about data collaboration i love senji's point on the business user kind of doesn't care if this is aws versus super cloud versus etc i was collaborating with the client and he wanted to send video file and the video file uh his organization's access control policy didn't allow him to upload or share the file from their preferred platform so he had to go out to another cloud provider and create yet another identity for that data on the cloud same data different identity a proper super cloud will enable me to simply say as a end user here's a set of data or data sets and i want to share a collaboration a collaborator and that requires cross identity across multiple clouds so even before we get to the past layer and the apis we have to solve the most basic problem which is data how do we stop data scientists from shipping snowballs to a location because we can't figure out the identity the we're duplicating the same data within the same cloud because we can't share identity across customer accounts or etc we we have to solve these basic thoughts before we get to supercloud otherwise we get to us a turtles all the way down thing so we'll get into snowflake and what snowflake can do but that's what happens when i want to share my snowflake data across multiple clouds to a different platform yeah you have to go inside the snowflake cloud which leads right so i would say to keith's question sanjeev snowflake i think is solving that problem but then he brings up the other problem which is what if i want to share share data outside the snowflake cloud so that gets to the point of visit open is it closed and so sanji chime in on the sort of snowflake example and in maribel i wonder if there are networking examples because that's that's keith's saying you got to fix the plumbing before you get these higher level abstractions but sanji first yeah so i so i actually want to go and talk a little bit about network but from a data and analytics point of view so i never built upon what what keith said so i i want to give an example let's say i am getting fantastic web logs i and i know who uh uh how much time they're spending on my web pages and which pages they're looking at so i have all of that now all of that is going into cloud a now it turns out that i use google analytics or maybe i use adobe's you know analytics uh suite now that is giving me the business view and i'm trying to do customer journey analytics and guess what i now have two separate identities two separate products two separate clouds if i and i as an id person no problem i can solve any problem by writing tons of code but why would i do that if i can have that super pass or a multi-cloud layout where i've got like a single way of looking at my network traffic my customer metrics and i can do my customer journey analytics it solves a huge problem and then i can share that data with my with my partners so they can see data about their products which is a combination of data from different uh clouds great thank you uh maribel please i think we're having a lord of the rings moment here with the run one room to rule them all concept and i'm not sure that anybody's actually incented to do that right so i think there's two levels of the stack i think in the basic we're talking a lot about we don't have the basic fundamentals of how do you move data authenticate data secure data do data lineage all that stuff across different clouds right we haven't even spoken right now i feel like we're really just talking about the public cloud venue and we haven't even pulled in the fact that people are doing hybrid cloud right so hybrid cloud you know then you're talking about you've got hardware vendors and you've got hyperscaler vendors and there's two or three different ways of doing things so i honestly think that something will emerge like if we think about where we are in technology today it's almost like we need back to that operating system that sanji was talking about like we need a next generation operating system like nobody wants to build the cloud mouse driver of the 21st century over and over again right we need something like that as a foundation layer but then on top of it you know there's obviously a lot of opportunity to build differentiation like when i think back on what happened with cloud amazon remained aws remained very powerful and popular because people invested in building things on amazon right they created a platform and it took a while for anybody else to catch up to that or to have that kind of presence and i still feel that way when i talk to companies but having said that i talked to retail the other day and they were like hey we spent a long time building an abstraction layer on top of the clouds so that our developers could basically write once and run anywhere but they were a massive global presence retailer that's not something that everybody can do so i think that we are still missing a gap i don't know if that exactly answers your question but i i do feel like we're kind of in this chicken and egg thing which comes first and nobody wants to necessarily invest in like oh well you know amazon has built a way to do this so we're all just going to do it the amazon way right it seems like that's not going to work either but i think you bring up a really important point which there is going to be no one ring to rule them all you're going to have you know vmware is going to solve its multi-cloud problem snowflake's going to do a very has a very specific you know purpose-built system for it itself databricks is going to do its thing and it's going to be you know more open source i would companies like aviatrix i would say cisco even is going to go out and solve this problem dell showed at uh at dell tech world a thing called uh project alpine which is basically storage across clouds they're going to be many super clouds we're going to get maybe super cloud stove pipes but but the point is however for a specific problem in a set of use cases they will be addressing those and solving incremental value so keith maybe we won't have that single cloud operating you know system but we'll have multiple ones what are your thoughts on that yeah we're definitely going to have multiple ones uh the there is no um there is no community large enough or influential enough to push a design take maribel's example of the mega retailer they've solved it but they're not going to that's that's competitive that's their competitive advantage they're not going to share that with the rest of us and open source that and force that upon the industry via just agreement from everyone else so we're not going to get uh the level of collaboration either originated by the cloud provider originated from user groups that solves this problem big for us we will get silos in which this problem is solved we'll get groups working together inside of maybe uh industry or subgroups within the industry to say that hey we're going to share or federate identity across our three or four or five or a dozen organizations we'll be able to share data we're going to solve that data problem but in the same individual organizations in another part of the super cloud problem are going to again just be silos i can't uh i can't run machine learning against my web assets for the community group that i run because that's not part of the working group that solved a different data science problem so yes we're going to have these uh bifurcations and forks within the super cloud the question is where is the focus for each individual organization where do i point my smart people and what problems they solve okay i want to throw out a premise and get you guys reaction to it because i think this again i go back to the maribel's tcpip example it changed the industry it opened up an ecosystem and to me this is what digital transformation is all about you've got now industry participants marc andreessen says every company is a software company you've now got industry participants and here's some examples it's not i wouldn't call them true super clouds yet but walmart's doing their hybrid thing with azure you got goldman sachs announced at the last reinvent and it's going to take its tools its software its data and which is on-prem and connect that to the aws cloud and actually deliver a service capital one we saw sanjiv at the snowflake summit is is taking their tooling and doing it now granted just within snowflake and aws but i fully expect them to expand that across other clouds these are industry examples capital one software is the name of the division that are now it's to the re reason why i don't get so worried that we're not solving the lord of the rings problem that maribel mentioned is because it opens up tremendous opportunities for companies we got like just under five minutes left i want to throw that out there and see what you guys think yeah i would just i want to build upon what maribel said i love what she said you're not going to build a mouse driver so if multi-cloud supercloud is a multi-cloud os the mouse driver would be identity or maybe it's data quality and to teach point that data quality is not going to come from a single vendor that is going to come from a different vendor whose job is to to harmonize data because there might be data might be for the same identity but it may be a different granularity level so you cannot just mix and match so you need to have some sort of like resolution and that is is an example of a driver for multi-cloud interesting okay so you know octa might be the identity cloud or z scaler might be the security cloud or calibre has its cloud etc any thoughts on that keith or maribel yeah so let's talk about where the practical challenges run into this we did some really great research that was sponsored by one of the large cloud providers in which we took all we looked at all the vmware cloud solutions when i say vmware cloud vmware has a lot of products across multi-cloud now in the rock broadcloud portfolio but we're talking about the og solution vmware vsphere it would seem like on paper if i put vmware vsphere in each cloud that is therefore a super cloud i think we would all agree to that in principle what we found in our research was that when we put hands on keyboard the differences of the clouds show themselves in the training gap and that skills gap between the clouds show themselves if i needed to expose less our favorite friend a friend a tc pip address to the public internet that is a different process on each one of the clouds that needs to be done on each one of the clouds and not abstracted in vmware vsphere so as we look at the nuance yes we can give the big controls but where the capital ones the uh jp morgan chase just spent two billion dollars on this type of capability where the spin effort is done is taking it from that 80 percent to that 90 95 experience and that's where the effort and money is spent on that last mile maribel we're out of time but please you know bring us home give us your closing thoughts hey i think we're still going to be working on what the multi-cloud thing is for a while and you know super cloud i think is a direction of the future of cloud computing but we got some real problems to solve around authentication uh identity data lineage data security so i think those are going to be sort of the tactical things that we're working on for the next couple years right guys always a pleasure having you on the cube i hope we see you around keith i understand you're you're bringing your airstream to vmworld or vmware explorer putting it on the on the floor i can't wait to see that and uh mrs cto advisor i'm sure we'll be uh by your side so looking forward to that hopefully sanjeev and maribel we'll see you uh on the circuit as well yes hope to see you there right looking forward to hopefully even doing some content with you guys at vmware explorer too awesome looking forward all right keep it right there for more content from super cloud 22 right back [Music] you

>>Live from Orlando, Florida. It's the cube covering Microsoft ignite brought to you by Cohesity. >>Good afternoon everyone. You are watching the cubes live coverage of Microsoft ignite. I am your host, Rebecca Knight, along with my cohost Stu Miniman. We are joined by Sean Gifford. He is the senior infrastructure administrator, administrator and infrastructure team lead at Illinois mutual. Thank you so much for coming on the cube. Thanks for having me. This is really fun. Yeah. So tell us a little bit about Illinois mutual. >>Sure. So Alou Mutual's a a life insurance company. We sell life insurance Dai and several other insurance products. We've been around for a little over a hundred years now. So, uh, not myself, but uh, you know, the company. Um, and uh, we are based in Peoria, Illinois, uh, about 200 employees. And uh, we're uh, mostly uh, based on one headquarters there with a couple of their uh, uh, one of their, uh, co located dead center. >>And you are a senior infrastructure administrator. Tell us, tell our viewers a little about what you do. >>Sure. So basically a infrastructure admin means you do just about everything now. Just seems that way sometimes. Um, so, uh, my team, uh, handles everything from windows system, ministration, um, individual systems like a, your exchange, SharePoint, you know, things like that that we would use on prem. Um, too. Also outside of the on prem side, any of our cloud management, et cetera. All right, so, so Sean, you know, this shows decades old and started out at the windows administrator and you know, what's now office or O three 65, uh, at its core. Uh, so have you been to the show before or is this your first time? Uh, on one time, watch. Never on before. Okay. So, but you know, I, I'd love just your viewpoint on Microsoft before we get into some of the environments. Cause of that, you know, Microsoft, you know, started out as people knew kind of windows and some of their apps, but now, you know, the sprawling company with, you know, apps everywhere in the cloud, the edge and the data center, uh, you know, such a big footprint is what they do. >>How you personally in Illinois mutual look at Microsoft? Well, Microsoft is definitely a major partner for Illinois mutual. Right. I mean, we are a very big Microsoft shop. Does that mean that everyone, uh, you know, thinks that Microsoft is the best that every product? Of course not, but, uh, they do a lot of things and they do them really well. So I mean, we obviously rely on them not only for our on prem active directory, but then replicating that out to, to as your, um, you know, I mean our email much just people like might not like to admit it is still one of the most essential pieces of the infrastructure. Um, and that's around on exchange. So I mean, honestly, uh, as much as a, you know, people might want to say Cisco networking is like the backbone of the network. Uh, my Microsoft technologies really are kind of the backbone as far as I look at it. >>Okay. So you still have exchange, you know, in your own shop. You haven't made the move. DOE Microsoft pressure in there. >> Yeah, I know, right? Um, so, uh, no. Yeah, we're, we're still on prem. Um, we have our O three 65 account and we're, um, full disclosure. So, you know, I've been in it for 20 some years, but, uh, uh, been into Eleni mutual for about four. When I was in consulting before only mutual. I did a lot of, uh, in a cloud consulting and getting people on. So it felt really weird to me, but that's, uh, you know, coming into Eleanor mutual where, uh, at the time they came on, uh, it was, the cloud in general was like a bad word. Um, so, and getting past that culture-wise has been a little bit of a struggle. >> Oh yeah. I would, I'd love you to just step back for a second. >>You know, you work for a company that's over a hundred years old, uh, so, you know, exchange in cloud and everything like that is, you know, been around for a very short piece of the overall company. So tell us some of the, you know, what are some of the changes, the pressures going on? Oftentimes there's M and a involved in pulling all those things together. So, uh, you know, Illinois mutual as a company, what are the, what are the drivers and stressors on, you know, your, your, your, your organization? >> Yeah, well first and foremost, data security, right? Um, getting it, uh, any data so that it's fully encrypted at rest in transit and all that sort of thing so that, uh, you know, and, and you don't have to worry about it, uh, leaving anywhere once it's on someone else's prem. Right. Um, it has always been a big part of it. >>Um, trust I mean in is really what it just comes down to. Uh, when you, when you're selling life insurance policies that, you know, go for the life of a human being, you know, that's a pretty longterm relationship. And, uh, going with something, uh, especially a technology like that, that is considered as you say, you know, new to the game, uh, has, has been a struggle for sure. I mean, we're, uh, just to give you an idea, we're a still on mainframe and, uh, we have now to be, to be fair, we have a sizable, uh, uh, project for getting, uh, things moved off of the mainframe, but that, you know, is 40 plus years old. Getting, getting that moving, uh, to, you know, try and hop just into the end of the 20th century, let alone the 21st is always a little bit hard. >>So talk about some of the specific challenges of managing legacy infrastructure, managing tape and, and sort of what, what you do as more of a on the Vanguard of technology in terms of how you're leading your organization to make changes that are, that are much needed. >>Yeah. Uh, so yeah, when, when I came in on, in fact until just a few months ago, you bring up the example of tape. I mean, uh, we had been doing tape off to a, on off-prem, a site that, uh, had been just the way they did it, right. And, uh, um, as a joke, when some people an earlier, um, as the new crew came in, uh, one of the things that we instituted is a, uh, that's how we always done it. Jar. Um, and, uh, instead of people having a swear jar, right, they'd have to throw money in a anytime. They didn't say, I can't do it cause that's how we've always done it. And that's always been just that struggle, you know, with tape, you know, why is it that we're sending our tapes, why are we sending tapes at all? But why are we sending them to this place that's a, you know, three miles away from our place and calling that disaster recovery. >>Um, so I, I, that has been one of the major struggles for sure. Um, getting through that. But, uh, I've been really impressed, uh, culture-wise with the fact that, uh, people are really starting to, to get in line with it. You know, they're seeing the, the advantages that we're bringing. Um, w when you have a cloud strategy that's well thought out and, uh, isn't, uh, at least inherently a, you know, tied to a given vendor as your AWS or whoever it might be. Um, and, and you're not making decisions for cloud just for the sake of calling it cloud. It makes a big difference. I think. So, uh, as you, as you started to embrace cloud, uh, how did things like data protection and security, you know, what stayed the same? You know, what, what things did you need to rethink as you roll those out? >>Data protection changes completely, right? Um, first of all, uh, you know, everyone had that, uh, idea that if it's in cloud, of course it's completely protected, right? It's not right. And so getting people to understand that, uh, as they say, Oh yeah, we're going to, you know, do this new sass offering. It's totally, you know, they take care of everything, the applications on them. You don't have to touch it. Right? Well, no, that's not really the case. You know, that they can lose a data just like anybody else. So getting through pieces like that on the, on the cloud side is, has been a struggle. But, uh, getting into just even normal or excuse me, newer, um, on-prem technologies has, has meant changing completely the way we're doing a lot of things. Um, the, uh, it was becoming harder and harder, especially as we moved data sets off of the, uh, uh, mainframe side to keep up with a lot of those replication timeframes and things like that because, uh, it, as you push more data through what is still a small pipe and it's never big enough, um, it, uh, it became everyday nightmares. >>So it's been a struggle. >>So when you are, when you, when you come to the conclusion that you need to make a change and you need to look for other kinds of solutions, how do you go about finding the right vendor for the problem that you're trying to solve? How do you find the best in class? Right. And that's, >>that's been an interesting piece with w with alimony mutual and, and, uh, having spent time at VARs for the first part of my career, I was used to, you know, answering things like RFPs and whatnot. Right. Um, and we don't necessarily do it within an RFP process, but, uh, honestly conventions like this one and stuff is how I like to do it. Um, you know, we get really stuck in the day to day doldrums and stuff like that too, right? As much as you're trying. And your goal might always be to, you know, get things to at least the cutting edge if not the bleeding edge. Uh, you really need to, you know, be at a places where you can learn about new new technologies now. So when it comes to us, we end up finding a lot of our vendors like that. And, uh, you know, cause we don't really want her to necessarily rely on, you know, the sales people or, or even really our, our, you know, sales people from a VAR or anything like that. >>It's about trying to find, uh, that, that third party knowledge to, to really understand what's the best thing for the needs and the, uh, pain points that you're having. And that's Sean, can you bring us in through, can you tell us, you know, which solutions you were, uh, you were deciding between and how you ultimately came to your final decision? Yeah. So, uh, so we looked at, uh, several different vendors. Um, when it came to our, uh, data protection, uh, analysis, we had looked at a beam for awhile. We had looked at rubric. Um, we had, we had looked at, uh, uh, of course, uh, you know, trying to continue things along with our current vendor at the time we should have been con ball. Um, and we did, uh, we did an M U a you right. a utility attribute analysis. Yeah. Uh, and we, uh, set that up and, uh, just tried to really compare and, uh, uh, you know, what are the actual things we really wanted, what were the selection criteria we have and grading each vendor on those things. >>Um, and ultimately that's what it took to be able to get it through to, you know, to our executives and, and whatnot, uh, building an algorithm that, uh, that, that looked at all those pieces and then, you know, as really address the pain points we were having, you know, uh, not just as a Jeep cause yes, as always a big thing. Right. But is it gonna replicate in time? Is it, is it going to, uh, reduce our overhead, uh, that we're in, that we're experiencing right now? Am I going to have to keep on a full time contractor just to, you know, do my data protection. So, all right, so you ended up choosing Cohesity. So what was it about Cohesity that separated it from, uh, from, from all the others? Yeah, so Cohesity, um, I had pretty given up, uh, when I did the analysis I was talking to you about a couple of years ago. >>Um, I looked around and nobody could quite fit the square peg into the round hole that I was trying to make it work. Right? I wanted a lot of things and nobody had exactly what I was looking for. Can we sit? He was the first one that could really do most of what I wanted to do. Uh, as an example. Um, being able to replicate your data, but while keeping it encrypted on both ends and but still having dedupe and compression and all those things built in, into the platform and, and weight, it's actually searchable wallets in those States, right? I can do like a Google type search and be able to find exactly what I'm looking for. Made a huge difference and it cut it down. Uh, you know, time wise, not only on the administrative effort but also when I had to do a restore and we had a major project just a, a month or so ago where, uh, I had my DBA doing a backup, uh, during a rollout. He accidentally set at the backup to go with the wrong side at the wrong data center. Everyone was kind of freaking out, right? What are we gonna do? We restored it across data centers, across the handling, kept within our timeframes. I was, that's the type of thing, type of thing that really makes it different stuff. So, >>so, so talk about some of the results that you've seen since implementing this. >>Yeah, so replication, um, that I brought up a couple of times, but, uh, it was a really big problem that we would take. For instance, um, I'll take SQL as an example, right? Our SQL data, we would do a data mirroring, right? So it replicated across our wind line for that. We would, uh, we would do a, uh, primary storage replication. So in this case, a nimble Sans that would replicate across with snapshots and then our actual data protection. Uh, so the same exact data would have to replicate across one tiny land line three times for every a replication. Um, since putting in Cohesity, we have experienced an actual, I was blown away when we actually calculated the results, but it was actually a four times increase in replication efficiency. Uh, it just allowed us to do a whole lot more without buying more land bandwidth. So this is a big deal for us. >>So, in terms of this show, as you said this, this is really helpful for you to go and meet different kinds of companies that you might not even know exists. There are new entrance all the time. So what are you going to bring back with you when you go back to Illinois mutual next week? What are some of the things that have stuck out to you, resonated most with you? >>Yeah, so I'm, I'm really encouraged and even with just Cohesity, for instance, I've talked to a, I'm actually met up with a couple of the engineers that I've talked with them, um, who had one of them and even put out a, uh, a new, uh, feature request for us. And he was telling me before lunchtime about some new features available that I can start to change up some of my jobs. I've, I'm really excited. I was texting my, my, uh, data protection, uh, you know, secondary admin, uh, uh, you know, texting furiously to them, we can do this. And, you know, I'm really excited about that. But, uh, honestly on the other side, is these your side? I'm, uh, really, uh, excited to learn about some of the things that we can actually implement, uh, even with older infrastructure, uh, in trying to pull some of those things, uh, into a cloud platform in ways that actually make sense and aren't gonna lose us money in the longterm. So I'm happy with that. Thank you so much for coming on the cube. Thank you very much. It's been fun. I'm Rebecca aid for Stu Miniman. Stay tuned for more of the cube.

live from New York it's the cube covering the cube New York City 2018 brought to you by silicon angle media and its ecosystem partners i'm jeff workday Villante we're here nine years our nine years of coverage two days live in New York City and our next two guests shot Mrazek CEO amana stayed at fiendish males CMO mystic good to see you again welcome back thank you bad to be here guys so obviously this show we've been here nine years we were the first original Hadoop world we've seen a change Hadoop was gonna change the world it kind of didn't but we get the idea of it did not it did didn't but it would change our world it brought open source and the notion of low-cost Hardware into the big data game and then the big data became so much more powerful around these new tools but then the cloud comes in full throttles and while they can get horsepower that compute you can stand up infrastructure for analytics all this data goodness starts to change machine learning then becomes the the real utility that's showing this demand for using data right now not the set up using data this is a fundamental big trend so I don't get you guys reaction what do you see this evolving more cloud like how do you guys see the trend in this as data science certainly becoming more mainstream and productivity users to hardcore users and then you got cloud native developers doing things like kubernetes we've heard kubernetes here it's like a cloud is a data science what's going on what's your view of the market so I came from a company that was in an tech and we were built on big data and in looking at how big data is evolved and the movement towards analytics and machine learning it really being enabled by Big Data people have rushed to build these solutions and they've done a great job but it was always about what's the solution to my problem how do i leverage this data and they built out these platforms and in our context what we've seen is that enterprises get to a certain point where they say okay i've got all these different stacks that have been built these apps that have been built to solve my bi and analytics problems but what do I do about how do I manage all these and that's what I encounter my last company where we built everything ourselves and then so wait a minute but what we see at an enterprise level is fascinating because when I go to a large company I go you know we work with no sequel databases and Hadoop and you know how much Couchbase do you have how much Mongo etc the inevitable answer is yes and five of each right and they're cutting to this point where I've got all this distributed data distributed across my organization how am I going to actually manage it and make sure that that data is protected that I can migrate to the cloud or in a hybrid cloud environment and all these questions start to come up at an enterprise level we actually have had some very high-level discussions at a large financial institution here in New York where they literally brought 26 people to the meeting the initial meeting this was literally a second call where we were presenting our capability because they're they're now at the point where it's like this is mission-critical data this is not just some cool stuff somebody built off in one of our divisions it matters to the whole enterprise how do we make sure that data is protected backed up how do we move data around and that's really the the trend that we're tapping into and that the founders of our company saw many years ago and said I need to I need to we need to build a solution around this it's interesting you know you think about network data as a concept or data in general it's kind of got the same concepts we've seen in networking and/or cloud a control plane of some sorts out there and you know we're networking kind of went wrong as the management plane was different than the control plane so management and control or huge issues I mean you bring up this sprawl of data these companies are data full it's not like hey we might have data in the future right they got data now they're like bursting with data one what's the control plane look like what's the management plane look like these are all there's a technical concepts but with that with that in mind this is a big problem what our company is doing right now what are what are some of the steps that are taking now to get a handle on the management the data management it's not just your grandfather's data management so we anymore it's different it looks different your thoughts on on this chain of management so they're approaching the problem now and that's our sweet spot but I don't think they have in their minds yet come to exactly how to solve it it's there's this realization about we need to do this at this point and and and in fact doing it right is something that our founders when they built Lee said look if this problem of data management across big data needs to be solved by a data we're platform built on big data so let's use big data techniques to solve the problem all right so let's before getting some of the solution you guys are doing take a minute to explain what you guys are doing for the company the mission you know the value proposition status what do you guys do how are people gonna consume your product I mean take a particular type gen simple elevator pitch and we were enterprise data management focused specific than had you been no sequel so everyone's familiar with the traditional space of data management in the relational space relational world very large market very mature market well we're tapping into is what John was just saying which is you've got this proliferation but Dupin no sequel and people are hitting the wall they're hitting the ceiling because they don't have the same level of operational tools that they need to be able to mainstream these deployments whether it's data protection whether it's orchestration whether it's migration whatever the case may be so what we do that's essentially our value prophecy at a management for a Dupin no sequel we help organizations essentially drive that control plane really around three buckets data protection if it's business critical I got to protect it okay disaster recovery falls into protection bucket good old stuff everyone's familiar with but not in Hadoop in no single space orchestrations the second big bucket for us which is I'm moving to an agile development model how do i do things like automated test dev how do i do things like GD are the compliance management how do i do things like cloud migration you tut you know john touched on this one before a really interesting trend that we're seeing is you said what are customers doing they're trying to create a unified taxonomy they're trying to create a unified data strategy which is why 26 people end up in the but in lieu of that there's this huge opportunity because of what they need they know that it's got to be protected and they have 12 different platforms and they also want to be able to do things like one Cosmo I'm on go today but I'll be cosmos tomorrow I'm a dupe today but I might be HD inside tomorrow I want to just move from one to the other I want to be able to do intelligence so essentially the problem that we solve is we give them that agility and we give them that protection as they're sort of figuring this all out so we have this right you basically come in and say look it you can have whatever platform you want for your day there whether it's Hadoop and with most equals get unstructured and structured data together which makes sense but protections specifically does it have to morph and get swapped out based upon a decision correct make well now we're focused specifically Hadoop and no sequel so we would not be playing like if you we're not the 21st vendor to be helping s AP and Oracle you know customers backup their data it's basically if your Hadoop renewal sequel that's the platform regardless of what Hadoop distribution you're doing or where it's no see you know change out your piece what they do as they evolve and are correct I feel exactly right you're filling white space right because when this whole movement started it was like you were saying commodity Hardware yeah and you had this this idea of pushing code to data and oh hey his life is so easy and all of a sudden there's no governance there's no data protection no business continuity is all his enterprise stuff I didn't you heard for a long time people were gonna bring enterprise grade to Hadoop but they really didn't focus on the data protection space correct or the orchestra either was in those buckets and you touch them just the last piece of that puzzle value wise is on the machine learning piece yeah we do protection we do orchestration and we're bringing machine learning to bear to automate protection what amazing we hear a lot and that's a huge concern because the HDFS clusters need to talk speech out there right so there's a lot of nuances and Hadoop that are great but also can create headache from a user human standpoint because you need exact errors can get folded I gotta write scripts it creates a huge problem on multiple fronts the whole notion of being eventually being clustered in the first base being eventually consistent in the second place it creates a huge opportunity for us because this notion of being a legs we get the question asked the question why well you know there are a lot of traditional vendors they're just getting into the space and then what do that that's actually good because it rises you know rises all boats if you will because we think we've got a pretty significant technology mode around our ability to provide protection orchestration for eventually consistent clustered environments which is radically different than the traditional I love the story about the 26 people showing them me take me through what happened because that's kind of like what your jonquil fishbowl what do they do it they sit in their auditing they take a node so they really raising their hand they peppering you with questions what what happened in that meeting tell us so so it's an interesting microcosm what's happening in these organizations because as the various divisions and kind of like the federated IT structure started building their own stuff and I think the cloud enabled that it's like you know basically giving a the middle finger to central IT and so I can do all this stuff myself and then the organization gets to this realization of like no we need a central way to approach data management so in this meeting basically so we had an initial meeting with a couple of senior people and said we are we are going about consolidating how we manage all this data across all these platforms we want you to come in and present so when we presented there was a lot of engagement a lot of questions you could also see people still though there's an element of I want to protect my world and so this organizational dynamic plays out but you know when you're at a fortune 50 company and data is everything there's the central control starts to assert itself again and that's what we saw in this because the consequences of not addressing it is what is potentially massive data you know data loss loss of millions hundreds of millions of dollars you know data is the gold now right is the new oil so the central organizations are starting to assert that so we say that see that playing out and that's why all these people were in this meeting which is good in a way because then we're not like okay we got to sell ten different groups or ten different organizations it's actually being so there's there's kind of this pull back to the center it's happened in the no sequel world of your perspectives on this I mean early on you had guys like Mongo took off because it was so simple to use and capture unstructured data and now you're hearing everybody's talking about you know acid compliance and enterprise you know great capabilities that's got to be a tailwind for you guys could you bring it in the data protection and orchestration component but yeah what do you see it in that world what do you guys support today and maybe give us a glimpse of the future sure so that what we see as well a couple different things we are we are agnostic to the databases in the sense that we are definitely in Switzerland we were we you know we support all commerce so it's you know it's follow the follow the follow of the market share if you will Cassandra Mongo couch data stacks right on down the line on the no sequel side and what's interesting so they have very there have all varying degrees of maturity in terms of what their enterprise capabilities are some of them offer sort of rudimentary backup type stuff some fancy they have more backup versus others but at the end of the day you know their core differentiation they each it's fascinating to each have sort of a unique value prop in terms of what they're good at so it's a very fragmented market so that's a challenge that's an opportunity for us but it's a challenge from a marketplace networkers they've got to carve out there they all want the biggest slice of the pie but it's very fragmented because each of them is good at doing something slightly different yeah okay and so that like the the situation described before is they've got yes so you got one of everything yeah so they've got 19 different backup and recovery right coordinate processes approach or the or nothing or scripting law so that they do have to they've got a zillion steps associated with that and they're all scripted and so their probability of a failure you know very you drop a mirror that's a human error to is another problem and you use the word tailwind and I think that's very appropriate because with most of these vendors they're there they've got their hands full just moving their database features forward right you know where the engagement so when we can come in and actually help them with a customer who's now like okay great thank you database platform what do you do for backup well we have a rudimentary thing we should belong with it but there is one of our partners a manas who can provide these like robust enterprise it really helps them so with some of those vendors were actually a lot of partner traction because they see it's like that's not what their their strength is and they got to focus on moving their database so I'll give you some stats I'm writing a piece right now a traditional enterprise back in recovery but I wonder if you could comment on how it applies to your world so these are these are research that David flora did and some survey work that we've done on average of global 2000 organizations will have 50 to 80 steps associated with its backup and recovery processes and they're generally automated with scripts which of course a fragile yeah right and their prefer own to era and it's basically because of all this complexity there's a 1 in 4 chance of encountering an error on recovery which is obviously going to lead to longer outages and you know if you look at I mean the average cost the downtime for a typical global global 2000 companies between 75 thousand and two hundred fifteen thousand dollars an hour right now I don't know is your world because it's data it's all digitally the worst built as a source is it probably higher end of the spectrum all those numbers go AHA all those numbers go up and here's why all those metrics tie back to a monolithic architecture the world is now micro services based apps and you're running these applications in clusters and distributor architectures drop a note which is common I mean think you know you're talking about you're talking about commodity hardware to come out of the infrastructure it's completely normal to drop notes drops off you just add one back in everything keeps going on if your script expects five nodes and now there's four everything goes sideways so the probability I would I don't have the same stats back but it's worse because the the likelihood of error based upon configuration changes something as simple as that and you said micro-services was interesting to is is that now is it just a data lake kind of idea of storing data and a new cluster with microservices now you're having data that's an input to another app check so now so that the level of outage 7so mole severity is multiple because there could be a revenue-generating app at good young some sort of recommendation engine for e-commerce or something yeah something that's important like sorry you can't get your bank balance right now can't you any transfers because the hadoo closes down okay this is pretty big yes so it's a little bit different than say oh well to have a guy go out there and add a new server maybe a little bit different yeah and this is the you know this is the type of those are the types of stats that organizations that we're talking to now are caring a lot more it speaks to the market maturity do you run into the problem of you know it's insurance yeah and so they don't want to pay for insurance but a big theme in that you know the traditional enterprises how do we get more out of this data whether it's helping manage you know this I guess where that that's where your orchestration comes in cloud management maybe cloud migration maybe talk about some of the non insurance value add to our components and how that's resonating with with cost yeah yeah I so I'll jump in but the yeah the non protection stuff the orchestration bucket we're actually seeing it comes back to the to the problem sting we just said before which is they don't have it's not a monolithic stack it's a micro services based stack they've got multiple data sources they've got multiple data types it's sort of a it's the it's the byproduct of essentially putting power into into divisions hands to drive these different data strategies so you know the whole cloud let me double click on cloud migrations is a is a huge value problem that we have we talked about this notion of being data where so the ability to I'm here today but I want to be somewhere else tomorrow is a very strong operational argument that we hear from customers that we also also hear from the SI community because they hear it from the other community the other piece of that puzzle is you also hear that from the cloud folks because you've got multiple data for platforms that you're dealing with that you need agility to move around and the second piece is you've got the cloud obviously there's a massive migration to the cloud particularly with the dubidouxs sequel workloads so how do I streamline that process how do I provide the agility to be able to go from point A to point B just from of migration standpoint so that's a very very important use case for us has a lot of strategic value like it's coming it's sort of the markets talking to us like no no no we have this is him but we have to be able to do this and then simple things like not simple but you know automated test step is a big deal for us everybody's moved agile development so they want to spin up you know I don't want it I don't want to basically I want 10% of my data set I want to mask out my PII data I want to spin it up on Azure and I want to do that automatically every hour because I'm gonna run 16 I'm gonna run six builds today clouds certainly accelerates your opportunity big-time it forces everything to the table right yeah everybody's you can't hide anymore right what are you gonna do right you gotta answer the questions these are the questions so okay my final question I want to get on the table is for you in the segment is the product strategy how you guys looking at as an assassin gonna be software on premise cloud how's that look at how people consume the OP the offering and to opportunities because you guys are a young growing company you're kind of good good time you don't have the dog'll or the bagging it's Hadoop has changed a lot certainly there's a use case that neurons getting behind but clouds now a factor that product strategy and then when you're in deal why are you being called in why would someone want to call you rotor signs that would say you know call you guys up when with it when would a customer see signals and what signals would that be and to give you guys a ring or a digital connection product so the primary use cases are talking about recovery there's also data migration and the test step we have a big account right now that we're in final negotiations with where their primary use case is they're they're in health care and it's all about privacy and they need to securely mask and subset the data to your specific question around how are we getting called in basically you've got two things you've got the the administrators either the database architect or the IT or infrastructure people who are saying okay I need a backup solution I'm at a point now where I really need to protect my data as one and then there's this other track which is these higher-level strategic discussions where we're called in like the twenty six person meeting it's like okay we need an enterprise-wide data strategy so we're kind of attacking it both at the use case and at the higher level strategic and and and obviously the more we can drive that strategic discussion and get more of people wanting to talk to us about that that's gonna be better for our business and the stakeholders in that strategic discussion or whomever CIT is involved CIO maybe use their chief data officer and yeah database architect enterprise architecture head of enterprise architecture you know various flavors but you basically it kind of ways comes down to like two polls there's somebody who's kind of owns infrastructure and then there's somebody who kind of owns the data so it could be a chief data officer data architect or whatever depending on the scale of your and they're calling you because they're full they had to move the production workloads or they have production workloads that are from a bond from what uncared-for undershirt or is that the main reason they're in pain or you're the aspirin are you more others like we had a day loss and we didn't have any point in time recovery and that's what you guys provide so we don't want to go through this again so that's that's a huge impetus for us it is all about to your point it is mature its production workloads I mean the simple qualifying are you are you running a duper no sequel yes are you running in production yes you have a backup strategy sort of tip of the spear now to just briefly answer your question before we before we run out of time so it's an it's it's not a SAS basement we're software-defined solution will run in bare mantle running VMs will run in the cloud as your Google whatever you want to run on so we run anywhere you want we're sorry for be fine we use any storage that you want and basically it's an annual subscription base so it's not a SAS consumption model that may come down the road but it's basically in a license that you buy deploy it wherever you want customers choose what to do basically customers can do you know it's complete flexible flexible but back to you so let's go back to something you said you said they didn't have a point in time recovery what their point in time recovery was their last full backup or they just didn't have one or they just didn't have one all of the above you know see we've seen both yeah there's a market maturity issues so it's represented yeah you know that a lot its clustered I you know I just replicate my data and replication is not earth and truth be told my old company that was our approach we had a script but still it was like and the key thing is even if you write that script as you point out before the whole recovery thing so you know having a recovery sandbox is really in thing about this we designed everything exactly extract the value and show the use case prove it out yeah dupes real the history is repeating itself in that regard if you refuel a tional space there's a very in correlation to the Delton between the database platforms of the data mention logical hence they are involved coming in okay let's look at this in the big picture let's dad what's the recovery strategy how we gonna scale this exactly it's just a product Carson so your granularity for a point in time is you offer any point in time any point in time is varying and we'll have more news on that in the next couple weeks okay mantas data here inside the cube hot new startup growing companies really solving a real need need in the marketplace you're kind of an aspirant today but you know growth opportunity for as they scale up so congratulations good luck with the opportunity to secure bringing you live coverage here is part of Cuban YC our ninth year covering the big data ecosystem starting originally 2010 with a dupe world now it's a machine learning Hadoop clusters going at the production guys thanks for coming I really appreciate it this is the cube thanks for watching day one we'll be here all day tomorrow stay with us for more tomorrow be right back tomorrow I'll see you tomorrow