(Upbeat music) >> Okay, welcome back everyone, to theCUBE's Coverage of Red Hat Summit 2021 virtual I'm John Furrier, your host of theCUBE got two great guests from Deloitte Consulting Dave Knight who manages the Red Hat Relationship, Lee he's the lead there, and Mike Bourgeois who's the Public Sector Managing Director both from Deloitte Consulting LLP official name. Guys, great to come on, and we were just talking before camera about all the stories. Great to have you on theCUBE, thanks for coming on. >> Yeah, thanks for having me. >> Like I said we were just talking about all the stories from the transition from pre-COVID, COVID. Now we've got a view into post-COVID. I want to dig into that 'cause there's a lot of things happening. You guys have been in the trenches, front lines bringing solutions, but before we get into that, can you guys just introduce yourself share your roles at Deloitte and give us a quick overview of what you work on. >> Yeah, so again, thanks for having us John Dave Knight I'm a solution architect and Global Red Hat Alliance Manager for Deloitte. I've got responsibility for making sure that play nicely in the sandbox together or we've got a joint customer and solutions to deliver to those customers. >> Hi everyone, thanks for having us John, I'm a Managing Director Mike Bushwa out of Boston Texas. I am coming up on year 20 and Public Sector Consulting. My area of expertise is large state government systems that serve the needs of millions of citizens and thousands of state workers, good to be here. >> Yeah. Great to have you. And I wanted to chime in with you right away because Mike you are living in probably one of the hottest markets Public Sector. I've been following that for many, many years, generations actually from the early computer industry GSA contracts, all these contracts you've got all the Public Sector, they move very slowly but now the pandemic, there was no place to hide. Everything got pulled back, disruption, you can't just shut down critical infrastructure and critical services. People had to move fast. What was your experience and how is it now give us a taste of some of the challenges and the landscape. >> You bet John, so we talked a little bit before we started this, but my 20 year consulting career, I can't think of anything really in close to this, other than maybe Y2K and as Dave mentioned the Affordable Care Act Legislation in 2009, though that was a much smaller scale as it turned out to be. So I would be remiss not to share examples of extraordinary challenges our clients have had related to the pandemic. Department of Labor and Health and Human Service Agencies for example, responded to the pandemic in rapid timeframe that were rarely seen in government. Citizens that were used to coming in appealed offices, We're now required to do most things virtually. Deloitte has been privileged to assist clients with digital solutions across the country in response to this unprecedented event. And so I'd like to share just a couple of examples. The first is for Department of Labor, the pandemic contributed to millions of layoffs throughout the country Department of Labor workers found called volumes increasing by a 1000% in some cases, the amount of increased volume required agencies across the country hire temporary workers to help out. Millions of new unemployment claims needed to be filed in benefits rapidly provided to citizens of name. So the big challenge was the agency had to figure out how to rapidly file claims into the unemployment system, rather than requiring new citizens to use an external web application they were really unfamiliar, the agency needed more efficient approach. The approach we used was to create an internal web application that enabled workers to file unemployment insurance claims on behalf of citizens. Workers collected the necessary data from citizens and claims were filed into the system. The application enabled workers to focus on filing claims rather than sort of a technical support role showing how to people use an external web application. More citizen were served in much less time, claims are filed efficiently by train workers which resulted in benefits being received in a much more timely fashion. And so a second example is, with Department of Human Services. So one stay as mentioned Citizens were used to going into field offices but suddenly they were told you can't come into the field office. So once they provided a 100% virtual application and the important part here is certification solution for the Disaster Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program or DSNAP for short. this application was stood up in two weeks, families who needed food assistance can now apply and be certified for benefits remotely. Today over 50,000 cases have certified and citizens receiving food nutrition assistance. Back to you John. >> So, I mean obviously there's some great use cases you got, basically I got to work at home, new architecture there you got to have a new workflows. I mean, this poses some real challenges. How did you guys put it together? I mean, Dave take us through where this all fits in with the Red Hat, because obviously now it's new deployment new capabilities have to be deployed for the pandemic. How does this bring together the partnership with Red Hat? >> Yeah, so great question and it really plays to the strength of both Deloitte and Red Hat, right? The success stories that Mike has illustrated show how we can quickly pivot as a firm to delivering these types of solutions and help our customers think through innovative ways to solve the problems. So, I mean the prime example that Mike just gave, everything used to be done in offices. Now it's all done remotely cause you can't go to the office even if you want to. And that is very much aligned with the innovation we get with our partnership with Red Hat, right? They've led the way in open source and some of the technologies that we've leveraged that our solutions include, answerable for automation, some of the middleware products, and I would say one of the cornerstones is the OpenShift Platform. Now that allows us to greatly accelerate the development and delivery of those solutions to our customers. Sort of again, aligning our innovative thinking with Red Hats Innovative Technologies. >> What would you say if someone said, "what's the partnership strengths and what needs specifically are you addressing with customers and customer needs?" >> So I, again, I think our lean towards innovation is a common thread across both firms and where we have our greatest strength. We like to take our customers on a journey but it's not our journey, it's their journey, right? So we help them figure out where they want to go and how they want to get there in a way that aligns with their business goals, their budgets all the sort of factors that drive those things and Red Hat is very open to that approach. They sort of invented the crowdsourcing of open source they made it into a business model. They've developed that from literally nothing. And that aligns very nicely with us. That's one of the key strengths. We also are firm believers in open source again to the degree that our customers like the leverage that to drive their journeys. And we're seeing that, especially in the Public Sector Space as being a key driver of the technologies they employ. >> Mike, I want to come back to you on this open ma component open question, open source, open to technology open innovation out in the open as Red Hat calls it. How does Red Hat open source software, address the needs for your customers for security and on-premise considerations. >> I'll talk a little bit about open source principles in general still the open source principles of transparency meritocracy community problem solving and collaboration. These are on its of both software innovation as well as organizational transformation. One of the highest demand transformation needs that I'm seeing in the market is the desire to adopt innovative technology, and most importantly, moving workloads to the cloud. It's no longer a thought, it is an imperative moving workloads to the cloud, on new deals hosted in the cloud, on an existing, is it large systems let Deloitte help us get to the cloud. So I believe the key to success embracing the cloud is recognizing first the need for change in people, processes and technology. The vehicle for this transformation is DevSecOps and innovative open source platforms, such as the OpenShift platform that Dave mentioned. OpenShift focuses on people, processes and technology and the security conversation becomes even easier. I mean, I see Linux was around for years, and we've always used Linux on our Java based workloads now we can have the conversation about saying, Hey, well that se Linux operating system we've been using for years now, there's this really cool Container Management Platform that we can solve real problems like auto scaling, in my Health and Human Services career, I can remember every year when open enrollment comes around systems engineers are teed up, and ready to manually add those to a BMR cluster or something like that. Well, now we don't have to do these things. We can rely on Kubernetes so auto scale, and then and get rid of those instances when workload demands seven resolved. So it's a really cool technology kind of behind the scenes. It's not the dog and pony show sometimes but in the end it helps the clients and Deloitte remain consistent with those service level agreements. >> That's a great example about the open enrollment illustrates the fact that, you got to provision more stuff to take that load on it. It's always hard in Public Sector you might not have the speed. So I got to follow up and ask you, you guys have had wins in the Public Sector lately with Red Hat, you guys Deloitte and Red Hat working together and get some wins under your belt, on around cloud and cloud and technology obviously with the pandemic has needs there. Are you guys seeing any particular sector challenges specifically around Public Sector as it goes this next level a lot of modernization happening we're seeing that, but any challenges that you're seeing, can you give some examples of how these challenges are being addressed? First talk about the challenges and then give some examples of how they're overcoming them. >> So I can jump in here with this one then, and Mike I think you probably have some maybe Public Sector specific examples, but one of the things that I think is common across all industries is resource constraints, right? And particularly as we look for human resources and not in the HR sense, but developers, CIS admins those types of resources as Mike said, the cloud is here to stay, right? And it's not something that people are thinking about it's de facto part of the conversation. And that's great, but it leads to silos of skills which puts further sort of strain on a limited pool of resources within most sites IT organization. So something like an OpenShift, something like an Ansible solves problems related to resource constraints, because they're skills that are portable across cloud environments, right? If you can manage OpenShift you can manage OpenShift on-prem, you can manage it recently released AWS version of that ROSA on the Azure version of that. So it's no matter where you're running it you've got a common set of skills and access sort of a force multiplier, same thing with Ansible automation, right? If you can write scripts, with an Ansible you can do those repeatable tasks in a much more efficient fashion. And again sort of multiplying the capacity of your existing workforce. >> So you've got an operating leverage there. I mean, this is what you're getting at is that, Public Sector and other commercial areas they kind of got to get used to this fact that, you get some leverage here, you get some operating leverage. >> More or less has always been a thing in IT. And it's not relenting that's for sure. >> It's been more at the more, with less has always been kind of a tagline for budget cuts, right? You can squeeze more out of the investment. Here it's kind of like do more with less than the sense of there's more net new things happening with leverage. So, I mean, do you agree with that? What's your take on that? >> Yeah, I think that's exactly right. It's more with less from a resource perspective, right? Typically it was budget, but no money is just another resource. Now we're getting into the personnel side of it. The other thing I would say is, something like an OpenShift Platform allows the Mike's point around DevOps, it allows the developers to develop, right? I have an article in wired.com about this, where developers are saddled with meetings and they have to become concerned with infrastructure and they have traditionally and security. And I am I doing all these things that aren't related to development. If you have a good DevOps Platform in place the security folks can build guard rails into the platform and the developers can just go develop which is what they want to do in the first place. Yeah exactly, that's another riff on the more, with less, again in a resource, the human resource way versus the budget way. >> Yeah, and that really is where OpenShift ties in. Mike what's your take on this? Because with this kind of program ability infrastructure as code DevSecOps kind of modern developers, Public Sector loves that, because they just want to build the new apps. They got to modernize. So change the infrastructure once. And then a lot of ma many benefits on top of it. It's almost like, it sounds like an operating system to me. >> Yeah, lots of thoughts going around my head right now but I'll say the more with less to me when I'm having client conversations is imagine a world of higher innovation, more technology at lower costs, right? I mean, so CIO is light up when I explained to them the orders of magnitude cost savings on top of the innovation introduced to their environment. So when moving workloads to the cloud is not as easy as just packaging up a binary and dropping in on a name, your cloud provider, right? There's an entire, a blueprinting strategy. There's a Cloud Native Architecture, modernization discussion, so we do those sorts of things, at Deloitte and we work with clients very closely to do that. I want to say teaming with Red Hat allows us to be proactive with our design and reference architecture validation. The Collaborative Partnership in Relationship allows us to connect senior engineers from Deloitte and Red Hat. So we have low level strategic discussions, we validate our assumptions and optimize to use a Red Hat technology. What we're doing in Public Sector is separating the monolithic application into layers. And whenever it comes to technologies like Ansible, like OpenShift, like Jenkins, all of these things that any application needs and Public Sector, we're saying out to the account teams across the country, look this is a slower layer DevOps Platform. And by the way, you can run any .Net or Java based workload on it. So we're trying to make opinionated reference architecture so that regardless of the solution, we can just go to market with that platform that tried and true production application. So I'll give a quick example John, if now's a convenient time regarding, well, one of the things that we've done for particular state client. >> Definitely yeah, give the use cases we love those. >> Yes so one of the impactful modernization that struck my mind was the State of Washington. They've mentioned the affordable care act earlier, there are two major things that came out of that. One was the eligibility and enrollment systems had to be modified across all 50 states. But the second thing and the primary driver behind the affordable care act was health insurance exchange. A way for millions of citizens to have access to healthcare using Subsidized Health Insurance Plans. So in Washington and health benefits exchange is that health insurance exchange, State of Washington has been a client of Deloitte since 2012. The solution was originally designed using closed source proprietary products. There are three drivers for change. The first is the API gateway was end of life and needed to be replaced. Number two was the client wanted it to move health benefit exchange to the cloud from an on-premise hosting arrangement. And third is reducing cost of those solution with innovative products. So the agency was looking for a platform that provided flexibility, auto-scaling and performance and lower cost of ownership. So we worked with the agency and we evaluated a variety of API Management and Integration Platforms after reviewing the outcomes for each proof of concept the agency decided to move forward with Red Hats, three skill API Management Platform, Red Hat Fuse for Integration and OpenShift Container Platform that offered the auto-scaling continuous integration tools and out of the box monitoring and reporting capabilities proactively monitor the health of the solution. I often describe a little bit of OpenShift as a data center or DevSecOps in the box. It just is all there. You don't need to add layers on top of OpenShift install and configure it, tune it and just you're off and running in a short amount of time. So three outcomes I'll mention, go ahead, John. >> NO continue, I thought you were finished. So on the outcomes side, the first outcome the agency substantially lower the cost of ownership using commercially supported open source while increasing access to innovative emerging technology. So the agency wanted a solution not only to meet their current needs, but extend the solution going forward. The beautiful thing about OpenShift is you can drop a container images into the platform without installing an operating system. It's all just there and it's spreading to be extended. The number two outcome cloud migration. Deloitte work collaboratively with the agencies and infrastructure and managed services team to successfully migrate the health benefit exchange to the cloud. And the last thing a bit obvious, but that's successful release, working collaboratively with our client. We were able to migrate the solution within 100 days from making the products decision. The cut over to the new solution was seamless with minimal downtime and zero production issues or exceptionally proud of that. >> Great stuff, great use case. And again, those are great business examples. Dave, I want to get this last question to you and Mike can chime in too. As Red Hat Summit evolves, and we're hearing the theme here at the event about transformation is the innovation, Innovation is about scale. When you hear the words like in a box or Hybrid Cloud you hear about an operating environment. So it's an opportunity to set the table for the next generation, this is what I see. What do you guys see as people talk about Hybrid Cloud and soon to be Multiple Cloud? Because you guys you said have tough relationships. You deal with IBM and Red Hat and you probably deal with other people. Clients want, from what we hear they want back to the Multi Vendor Open Connection Distributed Environment. That's what they want. So how does your relationship evolve, given all this is happening? How do you see the future, please chime in. >> Thanks, that's a fantastic question. I actually think the market is coming catching up to where I've been thinking for quite a while. And that is the Hybrid is kind of where it's at. A lot of customers have been in some sort of Hybrid mode as part of the step or a journey to the cloud, getting all the way to the cloud. But I think we're seeing some transition. I know customers are starting to ask me more and more about Hybrid solutions for a variety of reasons, right? The easy workloads for the most part have either been moved or be are being moved, or at least there's a strategy and a plan to get them moved. And now we're starting to be asked about some of the more difficult architecture type questions, right? The workloads that are a little bit more sticky to the on-premise model. And so Hybrid becoming more of the endpoint as opposed to a step along the journey. The other big thing is some repatriation, right? Workloads coming off of cloud. Maybe they seem like good candidates but for whatever reason, the cost drivers or other things weren't realized, let's get them back on premise. Maybe it's a regulatory thing and new regulations are making folks uncomfortable. So I see Hybrid as a pretty interesting next wave of cloud, Deloitte as a far or we're skilling up or tooling up in order to address the needs of our customers, again are starting to ask us these really challenging questions about Hybrid Cloud and Hybrid Cloud Architectures. >> Yeah and just the key point there is that you think about it like with the way you're discussing it, it's a platform, not a tool, right? So if you think about it like a platform then you can move things around and look at architectures and changes of how resources and workloads are deployed and then what data you're getting from it. Whether you bring it to a factory, for instance you say, Hey, okay, we're going to put it on prem because it's a factory or whatever, and you need more data. What was the changeover? This is like a day to operations kind of mindset. What's your comment on that? >> Well I mean I have actually going back three years now, one of the marketing lines that we developed internally, was moved to a platform, not a provider. But because you get that flexibility, now, the reality is what works stay where they're put for a variety of reasons. But I think one of those reasons could be, because they're put in places where they tend to not want to move, right? So if we could put them into a platform where, there is some portability built into the platform, I think we might have a different sort of outcomes for customers. And I think architecture is absolutely the key, right? That to me is the secret sauce here. >> Mike set up for you to close us out here, platform, Public Sector, Hybrid, that's what they want. It's an ideal scenario for anyone in Public Sector and in general, and why wouldn't you want to have a great platform that's it can be programmed, and rearchitected at will for the benefit of the business powered by software. What's your thoughts? >> Yeah, all good points and I will agree with Dave that Hybrid is certainly evolving. Eight years ago, Hybrid was consuming and address validation API in the cloud and not custom coding that, but today I do agree that Hybrid Cloud is all about a vehicle a way of moving workloads across data centers. It's an architecture that is encapsulated by something like an OpenShift so that you can federate your workloads across data centers. You can put them in one or easily moved them to the other. Maybe that's for a variety of reasons. It could be compute and storage is being reduced by one provider versus the other. So the solutions were we're designing today, they are data center agnostic, we're not being tied to data centers anymore. The best design solutions, you can just let them move in their easy manner. So that that's my take on Hybrid Cloud. And I would say the and Red Hat are making investments to help us advance that thinking help us advance those solutions. We had Deloitte have created a Red Hat OpenShift lab environment, and we've done this purposely to validate reference architectures to show account teams the way we have delivered the very very large accounts to show them what DevSecOps to means from a product perspective and to give them opinionated processes to be successful in delivering these large type solutions. >> Dave, Mike, thanks for coming on, and I appreciate you guys coming on theCUBE and sharing the perspective on the Red Hat Relationship with Deloitte Consulting. Thanks for coming on. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, John. >> This is CUBE Coverage of Red Hat Summit 2021, am John for your host, thanks for watching.

>> Live, from Orlando, Florida, it's theCUBE, covering Microsoft Ignite. Brought to you by Cohesity and theCUBE's ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back, everyone, to theCUBE's live coverage of Microsoft Ignite. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight. Joined, of course, by my esteemed co-host, Stu Miniman. We have one guest for this segment, Bernard Golden. He is the vice president of Cloud Strategy at Capital One. Thank you so much for coming on the show Bernard. >> Well, thank you so much for inviting me to be on. >> You are famous in the world of cloud. You're named by wired.com as one of the most ten influential people in cloud computing. I'd love to just ask you a very broad question to start, and that is where are we right now with the cloud? Where do you see, what are sort of the biggest issue, the biggest challenges that you see with companies adopting and embracing the cloud right now? >> Well, unlike a lot of people, I think we're still a lot earlier in cloud adoption than other people do, maybe. If it were a baseball game, I'd say, maybe, the pitcher's coming out for the top of the second inning. And I think the barriers tend to be two-fold. One is, for traditional enterprises, there's still a lot of, we have a lot of embedded, a lot of legacy, a lot of investment, sunk costs, how can we step away from that, should we step away from that? So you hear a lot of discussion around what's the right role, hybrid clouds, so forth, and so on. For companies like Capital One that have said, "we're going all in on cloud," and Capital One has announced it's going all in on public cloud. Then the challenge becomes how do I adopt the practices of the organizations around the frontier of cloud? Because you have to really adapt a whole range of things. It's not just ... a lot of people treat cloud computing as kind of like it's a data center at the end of a wire. I have my traditional practices, my traditional models, my traditional tools, my traditional cost models. All of those things have to change. And so, I think for companies like Capital One, and we certainly have faced those things I would say, but for those companies that make the break to say "yeah, we're going to go all out on cloud," then it's how do I restructure the entire way I do information technology? >> Yeah, and Bernard, I agree with a lot of what you were saying. You and I have had conversations about cloud over the years. I've read lots of what you've written. Amazon would agree it's still day one, right? >> It's their phrase. >> Microsoft, I want to get you, not as Capital One, but just as a watcher of the industry, I remember a few years back, Microsoft put out TV ads like "to the cloud." At least made me cringe when I saw some of it. When I look at Microsoft today, they play strongly in SAS, they've got public cloud, they've got all the virtualization in various business products for private cloud. So they play a lot of places, they have a lot of strengths, they understand application, they understand data, they're well positioned. They might not be number one in many of these areas, but a strong customer base. And they're doing good, but I'd like to see them do even more. I'm curious of your viewpoint. >> Well I guess what I'd say is, if you look at the universe or the aggregate of cloud providers, Gartner says there's three that really matter, up in the upper right-hand quadrant of the Magic Quadrant. And that's what I call AMG, Amazon, Microsoft, Google. If you look at Gartner, they've said these are the three that really have both a vision and the ability to execute. >> We believe Alibaba might be making its way in there at this point. >> You know, Alibaba's quite interesting. I've had some interactions with Alibaba, before I joined Capital One, and they're tremendously capable technically, they have huge ambition, so I wouldn't dismiss them or write them off. They don't have much presence in the U.S., at least Capital One is primarily a U.S.-based company. But also, because of the fact that Alibaba doesn't have much presence in U.S., and not that much in Europe, they tend to not be so present, but I would definitely follow them going forward, for sure. >> Sorry, I took you off track, talking about Microsoft's positioning in the marketplace. >> Well, so they're clearly one of the three players. I would say they've had a pretty dramatic turnaround from where they were, say, four or five years ago. You can track that, maybe, to their CEO. I think they're making a strong play in this space, and obviously are committed to it. >> I think Capital One is an adopter and pushing on many of the disruptive technologies. I remember the first Echo Dot that I got, it was actually a Capital One giveaway at a conference, I bumped into you at the Serverless conference. A lot of this show is talking about the business productivity, the applications. There's lots of Azure, but I haven't heard as much about Azure, there's some announcements around Kubernetes. I had a great conversation at the Serverless booth, but if you look at the cloud piece, I want to get your viewpoint as to how Microsoft's doing, where customers are. I know we're in, especially, Serverless' very early days. But get your viewpoints on how those fit into the overall position, and anything you could say about Capital One there would be great, too. Capital One, as I said, is all-in on public cloud computing. It's announced it's going to close all of its data centers. And, as I said, the second challenge that organizations face is really when they go all-in, they go "now I have to really adapt all my practices." So, Capital One is looking at things like containers, serverless, it sponsors the serverless conference, so it's very much engaged with those kinds of things. This conference, I mean, unlike AWS that basically says "all we do is AWS," Microsoft has a very broad range of products, and they have to represent all of them at their conference. So, it's certainly not an only-Azure conference, and that's to be expected. I've said in a number of the sessions, and it's part of my job, I have to track what's going on with all these providers. And so I've tracked what's gone on in the sessions. I've been pretty impressed with some of the stuff that Azure has put forward. But there's other sessions as well. And they have to cover all the rest of their stuff. >> As you said, Capital One is all-in on the public cloud, but it is a multi-cloud world. And a lot of companies are still sort of struggling to figure out "how do I make this work, where do I go?" Can you walk us through your decision process at Capital One, and then also maybe tease out some best practices about how other organizations should make decisions? >> Well, I can't say a ton about Capital One, and about how we've looked at it, other than what we publicly announced, which is "we're all in on public cloud." Our CIO has been up on stage at AWS, very strong adapter of AWS. What I would say, is that, for most organizations, there's sort of two factors you might think about in terms of looking at using multiple clouds. One is from a risk communication strategy. Do you want to have all your eggs in one basket? And that's probably for most enterprises it's not that much of a problem in the sense that they own something of everything, no matter what. You'll never find any enterprise that only uses one thing. In any technology place, and even if they do, then they buy another company that's on a different one. But, from a risk communication strategy you might want that, and then, you might also be looking at opportunistic deployment of workloads if you want to take advantage of superior functionality available from one cloud provider or another. So, do you really like the machine learning that comes out of Azure, well you might decide to put workloads based on that. Or if you like something about certain kinds of database offerings, you might look at that. If you want a certain breadth of services, you might look at AWS, so there's a criteria you have to establish about what you want to accomplish with your applications, or what you want to do around risk management. >> Great, Bernard, what other things have you been seeing at the conferences, what's exciting you? Any takeaways for people that haven't been at the show? Or any things you'd recommend people go poke at? >> As I said, I attended a number of sessions yesterday. I was pretty impressed with the Cosmos DB multi-master. I used to run engineering groups at a database company, and I'll tell you, there's a huge revolution going on in databases, from all the providers, and having some domain experience, there's stuff that gets announced and I go, "how do they that?" I mean, that's amazing. So that was pretty impressive. There were a couple of announcements around Express Route. One, they've announced the 100 Gig Connectivity, which is pretty amazing, I think. And the second thing, this didn't get a lot of coverage and all that, is they announced that basically, let's say you're a corporation with stuff in Argentina and Switzerland. You can basically put Express Route connections into the Microsoft fiber backbone and then just transit your data across their private fiber backbone, which is pretty, pretty interesting. So, I thought that was pretty interesting. I think the rest of it is slipping my mind at the moment. >> I tell you, that is fascinating, because I remember, I've been watching since when AWS came out it had Direct Connect. It was, well, this is really interesting, there's some use cases, but Amazon, Azure, and Google, all of those versions, just hearing massive adoption as people go to a hosting colo service provider, and that can get them, I have the stuff that I'm going to own, and then I'm going to have the stuff, the public cloud in it, physics still exist, but I'm going to get them closer with high band with low-latency connections, so it's a real game-changer as to how I build my applications, and build that ... The hybrid cloud, or multi-cloud, which is something we've been kind of looking at as it's a challenging thing to do, over time. >> Yeah, it's interesting, because there was a time when the huge challenge was the skinny straw. If you had 100 megs, that was a pretty skinny straw. And now, that's really opened up a lot. And these direct connects are pretty good cross-connect performance. That was the pretty interesting era, I thought. >> Great, Bernard, thank you so much for coming on theCUBE. It was a pleasure having you. >> Thank you so much for inviting me. >> I'm Rebecca Knight for Stu Miniman, we will have more from theCUBE's live coverage of Microsoft's Ignite coming up in just a little bit. (techno music)