live from Las Vegas Nevada it's the cute covering knowledge 15 brought to you by service now hey welcome back everyone we are here live for day two of wall-to-wall coverage getting down to the end of the day here live for the cube at servicenow knowledge 15 hashtag no 15 join the conversation on crowd chat / no 15 this is the cube our flagship program out to the events and I strike a super low noise I'm John furrier mykos Dave vellante arnessk as a steve bates principle cio advisory at kpmg he runs the global technology business management practice welcome to the cube thanks for having me good to be here we could probably talk for a now or on just a couple different awesome use cases but the digital transformation is a buzzword being promoted by all the top analysts it certainly chums the water and in the mind of sea level suites are we you know Apple we Apple I want to be like Facebook like Google I want to be like that i want to be i got to be digital everywhere all formats all channels get some all hot and bothered end of the day rubber hits the road you guys are in this business with technology business management tvm yep what is that what is this going on here help explain the dynamic teen those two well one's a buzzword one's kind of a practice what's going on with this trend so let's take a step back and look at the method of how we run IT right the paradigm of traditionally running IT as a utility that quiet silent automated environment where you're trying to push down costs to the lowest possible level right digital transformation is going to blows that out of the water right it's no longer about an access to you know a single set of services that you know you have to go through a function to get right technology has been largely democratized and is accessible to everyone so how do you allow that to be how do you get transparency into what's important right how do I invest in the right things if I can just go by services with my credit card how does the CIO get their hands around with the right things are digital accelerates that so much more right no longer we bound to a data center no longer we bound to just a set of applications you need a way to manage your business of IT that's what tbm is trying to do establishing the tools and processes and credibility to allow you to do that so for all its cloud buffs out there we we've been calling that shadow IT that's the term being kicked around playing in the shadows going behind boss's back putting some stuff up on Amazon getting your hands slap then say wait we should do that across the whole company yeah that's kind of what's happening yeah and it's been a shadow IT isn't necessarily a bad thing right sorry exactly didn't a penalty buckle get back out here and implement this was a company-wide right so it's when you use tv-am as the method to manage your business it's to be able to say I want transparency into what we're using regardless of harden it put some practice and play so take us through some examples of top of your head where you've seen this in action what's the platform architectures look like what are the use cases I mean it's hard to rip and replace oh for sure we're so how do you how do you guys look at that and what is an example yeah so if you could start with the fundamentals which is removing the black box around IT right this is about getting transparency into who's using what in the estate all right so an example of the most of our clients start with is the use case of I have no idea how much we spend on i.t it's shocking i know we all we all are surprised about that even seventy percent is for operations what's the number exactly so that that beginning use case usually doesn't come from just the cio that really is typically coming the CFO and so our engagement as often with a CFO or someone in the finance organization saying i need transparency to understanding what we're consuming who's using it and are we actually spending money on the right thing so they know there's you know what they're spending at the top line or not necessarily because of shadow IT correct okay federer so TC oh there's the entire concept of total cost of ownership no I oh forget it but the Bennett but they know what the IT department is spending they know what's budgeted okay that's a capital budget and then there's this other stuff that goes on the career I don't have a handle on and so when you see that that always increasing cost of IT year over year and over year you can tie that to all wise why is it going up you know no one wants to but that's the old paradigm right what you want to say when you're do something with digital disruption is we want more technology alright we want them we want to actually turn that into our differentiator so how do we use more technology while driving down the cost on things we don't care about how do we how do we do it so that's the use of the original use case is always around transparency what you do with that transparency the actions you take that's interesting that's what's next and that's where you're talking around so if I want to reintroduce an entire way of doing our virtualization structure well I know now how much we spend on it I know who's using it I know what applications and services its links to and I now can make a decision a smart decision prior to investing in this what the value is yeah well it's the second third fourth and fifth thing that you just said yes those are the really hard things I mean relatively easy to find out at least what's being spent and that's hard but what applications are supported what's business processes is recorded what value yes is it bringing to my organization well that's where you guys come in that's the whole point it's this is about a value play and making decisions and on what you're going to invest and linking it to value as opposed to cost cost is a component of value but it's not the interesting part right you're only as good as the day you can get so how about the data impact cuz you know running IT as a business you need the data so that's where you guys can explain that get the data right how does the data get into the system that's something that I'm a little fuzzy on let's let's start with the premise that this entire thing or any ideas a business is built on credibility right and IT typically has very little credibility because they don't have good data or the data that they do have they can't defend right so how we start with it is with a fact-based conversation rings we do a bottoms-up model that will typically pull from in the ServiceNow case we're pulling from a CMD be a hardware asset management software asset management will pull in contracts will pull in to help desk tickets any information that helps inform us on what the IT estate really looks like and who's using those resources the the data is in service now the data is resident so it's a trusted source right for organizations who do not have a trusted source like for those who don't have a configuration management those that aren't using a service now it's incredibly difficult this disparate universe of data that's all garbage and enriched and manual what we do is we come in and we standardize that and we create trusted sources that can be certified and dependable and that's where you start yeah because I I see why you guys are needed because even if you have a cmdb even if you have service now you might know what all your hardware is but you don't know what apps are necessarily running on that hard way you don't know what business processes they support you don't know what your dependencies are you don't know what the users are you don't know the value of those users I mean that's a complicated situation and so how do you resolve that we enter with what we have in our service hierarchy right so you typically find an IT hierarchy that rolls up infrastructure to some level of IT towers that allow us to see well here's kind of what the operating the OS layer is there's maybe some middleware but organizations usually stop at that layer our model comes in and we built a whole stack we start with for the bottom up and the top down at the same time yeah there we go for business capabilities down to business services from business services to IT services and IT services into capabilities all the way down the stack that for us is an architectural blueprint that then you start running your organization off of its service oriented and then you can look at what Apple you look at the application portfolio and sort of chunks or sweets and then you've got granular yeah there's there's so many different slices you can take so let's just say you're at a application portfolio manager their common pretty common role but you want to know let's say one of your use cases and allow no rationalize my application is very common all right so how do i do that i can look at if I find one lens if I wants to look at licensing okay that's fine I can look at duplicate licenses out there but what do I want to see if I what's the ideal infrastructure to ride this upon able to get the whole stack from standardized my platform on the infrastructure to the application application portfolio managers should know that they shouldn't just be the apps layer it should manage the whole stack what if i want to know though the applications that are tied to a service a business service I can't get transparency of that there's no certain there's no technology today that just simply roles that off the show you can't just do an automated audit right exactly that's what that's what we're doing right is we're building that layer that intelligence layer on platforms like service now that allows you to get transparency from a business service which is a language you and I would use as consumers down to a technology service which IT and infrastructure and applications people okay so now everything we talked about is is challenging especially in organizations that don't have a clue which is the vast majority of organization don't have this data you know built and mapped out yep the hardest part still yet is to me if I'm going to make a decision to sunset applications and retire applications and rationalize my portfolio I want to make it on a value-based you know decision so how do you deal with that is you have a scoring methodology or some kind of balanced scorecard or other KPMG secret sauce or tons of KPMG hey no i would say that there's it's built on three things we tried always tie back to existing business metrics so you know don't create new IT metrics to prove value values already been declared by the business by the metrics they run the business by right so never simple stuff revenue exactly profit customer experience wouldn't you know however want to try that we look at time when we're building a portfolio services we're looking to tie those investments those technology investments directly to those metrics all right so you understand that if this portfolio of applications critical fits your CRM system if it is critical to delivering this revenue we are going to prioritize that is business credit and your codifying that as that tribal knowledge are codifying it based upon the people who know the business and then you're you've got a process to say okay now let's put that into the system correct we come in with a framework that we thinks eighty percent correct and that that twenty percent of enrichment that the business done we think that accelerates the process of getting to the value statement as opposed to what is all the linkages between my applications and this is a great business because that's our that's an organic thing it's always change it always in there so you gotta pee well okay so what happens when it changes how do I manage that so you're talking full lifecycle processes that's why this is a de tbm is a framework under which you manage your business so it's less about a service and it's more about almost an operator you gotta cook even you got a partner you're in the books your full forensic it's a full position but if i'ma see I don't say okay Steve I want you to teach me how to fish yep I don't want you to fish for me you're not gonna say no that's exactly so transfer n decision transfer knowledge transfer so there's there's extremely low value for us to continue to come back and do this as a project this isn't a project to not an outsourcing project correct you guys just say here's you been transformed you open your way and have a good business so good time to go grass all I got it I got and so when do you get the call you know man I my rooms around fire finally the second rooms burn like oh heck yeah I mean I'm gonna be proactive works really good right now I want you to come in and do an audit I mean is there a catalyst give me an example oh so pattern you got the name names or just give us a the consistent theme you're seeing well we often house is on fire breach something's going on shadow ID what are the new use cases well we often get called when there's someone standing outside a pile of rubble that used to be their home that is smoldering fortunately it's already dead we'd like okay we'd like to get past that listen I just started a new job my old places burn to the ground no I honestly I think that it comes back to the drivers are an organization is either getting challenged on the value of that of the IT dollar and it's and it is a reactive stance it's CIO is being beat up repeatedly and their credibility is gone see if typically the CFO or the actual consumers so you'll find that you know an enterprise CIO is getting hammered by the business unit CIO soon to which he is selling common backbone services as an example when when the equation comes down to cost that is always the first point the best organizations got past cost a while ago right that's the kind of drain that swamp and there's not a lot you can do there's not a lot of levers so you start talking about value and that's where organisms like it's like corporate kangaroo court yes get warring factions CIO saying no no we're doing our best for peddling as we can is their fault they didn't give us the requirements the CFO's in the middle trying to blow whistles you guys get called in everyone kind of goes to their corner yeah and you figure it out and let's have a fact-based conversation on an emotional conversation but this facts are there but get it set sorted out get the data yeah i hit the facts that that's the hard part is getting actually coming in with a method that de stablished is a fact pattern a base that a model that we can agree on and use a common language you'd be shocked how hard that is for so many organizations because their data is so this pressure point really is market I mean revenues dropping wine or they're not modernize this is now the payback for bad investment decisions yeah you know hey we should have done that or medicine stead of Khalid Saleh dating servers we should have done that and done this you have a client really you know just we discussing us today at one of our breakout sessions of a client who under invested for about ten years in their infrastructure they're paying for those sins now and they but the problem is they don't know how to take the two to three hundred million dollars and refresh money they don't even know where to apply it and and they don't know that they don't it just rip and replace and want to do like for like right they want to take digital disruption as an example I want to say this this is an opportunity for us yeah to remake our land great examples with a guest on open from the beer company on here is fantastic example where 19 years in the business craft beers growing and the winds were perfect they pivoted up a service now and what happened was they got the retail operation odd bistros they have distribution manufacturing so they have now just not just one business in three so they've now grown significantly stone stone brewery so let's use that as an example of the new I TFM application and service now let's say then we're super excited about that about service now entering into the TBM supplier ecosystem in this space that's a big move because service nails that really the only platform that has all of the data that you want resident to it right as a platform you can just feed it and and by putting this analytics layer around this IT financial management portion of it it accelerates you very quickly past transparency and gets you into the interesting conversations or well what would happen if I got into a new line of business let me model back what would happen if I you know shut down this move to this it gives you I chief it puts IT from a basement organization to full-on in control the master the universe because you had Internet of Things there and mobile right you cut every connected device AKA person yep and system so now you can they can do a lot with that I mean really great position yes hold position in the market absolu stevis it's the cio tag cloud of the stuff he or she has to worry about mobile cloud social security service management etc is pretty complicated matter so why should they be focused on technology business management and are they focused enough on T technology business management is it part of their priority list so I think it has to be most of the organizations that are mid size to large scale enterprises this is simply that though the way to have to shift to be able to meet this they don't think of it think of it this way that there's for every other function in an organization there's a management system all right for the finance group there's an ERP systems the marketing and group there's a sale system right there's there's no such system for IT there's no management framework for IT we have lots of principles we have frameworks like I till & Co so and cobit and on and on and on but there's really no management principles there tbm is kind of an international standard that thousands of companies are adopting that allow especially large-scale complex enterprises to make smart actionable decisions by running IT transparently why big organizations versus small organizations adopt this is exactly what the point you made is we have all of these competing priorities GRC and compliance and I mean you go on and on and on what are you going to spend your time on how do you prioritize what is the language of business language of business is financed right so we teach CIOs how to speak the language of business and sounds a little bit rudimentary but it's truly not when you have speak wallet correct speak follow the dollars and that's what we're doing through TV and that's why so many companies have adopted this principle as the right way to run IT as a business but the tech enablement layer underneath it still very nascent just growing service now entry into it is you know just this year so it's going to be it's what's next in our mind so I got to ask the final question your outlook for service now buying opportunity of course bye bye bye doc took a real hammering on Friday and we kind of busted Frank's chops a little bit about that buddy address and we wanted to get that out there but it's a platform that is really well architected for this agile cloud native cloud born the cloud whatever you want to buzz where you want to call it and be enterprise grace interesting how they backed in from enterprise to now agile right so I mean this is really a unique historic use case for you know vendors right I mean usually oh I'm the big startup but I'm going to go the enterprise all right you go consumer then you go enterprise the interesting here there in the enterprise but now with consumerization of IT kind of happening yep interesting model do you see anything else like this out there I think it's unprecedented frankly I think it's a new model that service now is setting the standard for the platform the design principle that service now has had of being a platform first right and being able to be elastic and extend into non-traditional use cases i think is at the core of why there's so much value vendors it's a very easily accessible you system and it allows you to take the importance of of dead equality workflow analytics and link them in a way that is just simple I think Frank's movement built a new boat that is faster and more agile than the big aircraft carriers that are absolutely device absolute software companies I mean monolithic big book upfront licenses I mean yeah and why why wouldn't you as a consumer why wouldn't you want an agile platform that I could start as a rowboat and build an aircraft carrier and then take it back to a rowboat again why wouldn't I want to have that flexibility like uber okay trade rowboat for business growth let's go by the way battleship modern nukes they have machine and I mean so this is the model by you go create time to value yep in the budget so this is disruptive and innovative like Amazon yes but difference but the enterprise grade but it allows you think of it follows the speed of business it follows the nature of the contractions and expansions of it that that's the model I think going for if you're not enterprise-grade you're going to be meet and struggle to keep up with the change of business and again a platform like a service now allows you to scale and contract and expand into areas where you are comfortable right now it aligns with your strategy yeah so its purpose built for the enterprise it's not purpose-built for a function and I think particularly think that's powerful final question because we talk about digital transformation also i'll throw another word buzzword out there social business IBM used to call the web ebusiness no one uses that term anymore ebusiness that's the web that's the internet but they're also tell muscles which is now transcend it to be more okay social media all this stuff you know buzz more PR PR function maybe some buzz but now you're seeing the touchpoints be more business driven workflow driven so rank mentions email sucks you know that kind of thing my kids kind of figured that out already on their own right so you know they don't use email very much so good phone access is consumer so social business real not real similar to the like way IBM used to call ebusiness early on and what's your outlook for this categorical new direction I get I think it's just the next logical step or the evolution you're like they're like all things the speed of these changes are just compounding but gold again back to your your digital disruption your mobile your mobile platform is just now that piece of glass is is now your foundation for everything right and that's that's just simply a fact the the paradigm again of having a very set of elastic technologies that can get any set of glass that you want and you can transact business with that's fine i think the question any much most people are asking is where's the great user experience associated with that and you'll see I kpmg is a great example we we acquired a company that just focuses on the social experience that giri that you're having through this and and that's that's a science right and it's it's not just making pretty web pages like we did back in the dot-com days you know the spinning logo that wasn't not the point it's around what is the science behind me having a great customer experience which creates brand loyalty on this screen versus this screen versus my TV screen and how do I make that consistent I think you're going to see that more and more than science because it John please yesterday after we had our great bit kind of for the folks out there saw it throwing the water having a lot of fun he said I don't believe how holly was making the big movies and then the kids are watching on this screen so his whole point was old school like hey you have art now in the small screen yeah I think that's that's the technology business management angle to this is you got it you've got to be able to shift and make the right decisions steve bates principal and global director of their technology practice and KPMG the transformation is happening thanks for joining spending time and sharing some great insights here on the cube of course we believe everything you're saying as well so great stuff we write back on our next guest kind of grinding down day two of three days of coverage it's the cube we'll be right back after this short break you