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Warren Jackson, Dell Technologies & Scott Waller, CTO, 5G Open Innovation Lab | MWC Barcelona 2023


 

>> Narrator: theCUBE's live coverage is made possible by funding from Dell Technologies. Creating technologies that drive human progress. (upbeat music) >> Hey, welcome back to the Fira in Barcelona. My name is Dave Vellante. I'm here with David Nicholson, day four of MWC '23. Show's winding down a little bit, but it's still pretty packed here. Lot of innovation, planes, trains, automobiles, and we're talking 5G all week, private networks, connected breweries. It's super exciting. Really happy to have Warren Jackson here as the Edge Gateway Product Technologist at Dell Technologies, and Scott Waller, the CTO of the 5G Open Innovation Lab. Folks, welcome to theCUBE. >> Good to be here. >> Really interesting stories that we're going to talk about. Let's start, Scott, with you, what is the Open Innovation Lab? >> So it was hatched three years ago. Ideated about a bunch of guys from Microsoft who ran startup ventures program, started the developers program over at Microsoft, if you're familiar with MSDN. And they came three years ago and said, how does CSPs working with someone like T-Mobile who's in our backyard, I'm from Seattle. How do they monetize the edge? You need a developer ecosystem of applications and use cases. That's always been the thing. The carriers are building the networks, but where's the ecosystem of startups? So we built a startup ecosystem that is sponsored by partners, Dell being one sponsor, Intel, Microsoft, VMware, Aspirant, you name it. The enterprise folks who are also in the connectivity business. And with that, we're not like a Y Combinator or a Techstars where it's investment first and it's all about funding. It's all about getting introductions from a startup who might have a VR or AI type of application or observability for 5G slicing, and bring that in front of the Microsoft's of the world, or the Intel's and the Dell's of the world that they might not have the capabilities to do it because they're still a small little startup with an MVP. So we really incubate. We're the connectors and build a network. We've had 101 startups over the last three years. They've raised over a billion dollars. And it's really valuable to our partners like T-Mobile and Dell, et cetera, where we're bringing in folks like Expedo and GenXComm and Firecell. Start up private companies that are around here they were cohorts from our program in the past. >> That's awesome because I've often, I mean, I've seen Dell get into this business and I'm like, wow, they've done a really good job of finding these guys. I wonder what the pipeline is. >> We're trying to create the pipeline for the entire industry, whether it's 5G on the edge for the CSPs, or it's for private enterprise networks. >> Warren, what's this cool little thing you got here? >> Yeah, so this is very unique in the Dell portfolio. So when people think of Dell, they think of servers laptops, et cetera. But what this does is it's designed to be deployed at the edge in harsh environments and it allows customers to do analytics, data collection at the edge. And what's unique about it is it's got an extended temperature range. There's no fan in this and there's lots of ports on it for data ingestion. So this is a smaller box Edge Gateway 3200. This is the product that we're using in the brewery. And then we have a bigger brother of this, the Edge Gateway 5200. So the value of it, you can scale depending on what your edge compute requirements are at the edge. >> So tell us about the brewery story. And you covered it, I know you were in the Dell booth, but it's basically an analog brewery. They're taking measurements and temperatures and then writing it down and then entering it in and somebody from your company saw it and said, "We can help you with this problem." Explain the story. >> Yeah, so Scott and I did a walkthrough of the brewery back in November timeframe. >> It's in Framingham, Mass. >> Framingham, Mass, correct. And basically, we talked to him, and we said, what keeps you guys up at night? What's a problem that we can solve? Very simple, a kind of a lower budget, didn't have a lot money to spend on it, but what problem can we solve that will realize great benefit for you? So we looked at their fermentation process, which was completely analog. Somebody was walking around with a clipboard looking at analog gauges. And what we did is we digitized that process. So what this did for them rather than being completely reactive, and by the time they realized there was something going wrong with the fermentation process, it's too late. A batch of scrap. This allowed them to be proactive. So anytime, anywhere on the tablet or a phone, they can see if that fermentation process is going out of range and do something about it before the batch gets scrapped. >> Okay. Amazing. And Scott, you got a picture of this workflow here? >> Yeah, actually this is the final product. >> Explain that. >> As Warren mentioned, the data is actually residing in the industrial side of the network So we wanted to keep the IT/OT separation, which is critical on the factory floor. And so all the data is brought in from the sensors via digital connection once it's converted and into the edge gateway. Then there's a snapshot of it using Telit deviceWISE, their dashboarding application, that is decoding all the digital readings, putting them in a nice dashboard. And then when we gave them, we realized another problem was they're using cheap little Chromebooks that they spill beer on once a week and throw them out. That's why they bought the cheap ones 'cause they go through them so fast. So we got a Dell Latitude Rugged notebook. This is a brand new tablet, but they have the dashboarding software. So no matter if they're out there on the floor, but because the data resides there on the factory they have access to be able to change the parameters. This one's in the maturation cycle. This one's in the crashing cycle where they're bringing the temperature back down, stopping the fermentation process, getting it ready to go to the canning side of the house. >> And they're doing all that from this dashboard. >> They're doing all from the dashboard. They also have a giant screen that we put up there that in the floor instead of walking a hundred yards back behind a whole bunch of machinery equipment from a safety perspective, now they just look up on the screen and go, "Oh, that's red. That's out of range." They're actually doing a bunch of cleaning and a bunch of other things right now, too. So this is real time from Boston. >> Dave: Oh okay. >> Scott: This is actually real time from Boston. >> I'm no hop master, but I'm looking at these things flashing at me and I'm thinking something's wrong with my beer. >> We literally just lit this up last week. So we're still tweaking a few things, but they're also learning around. This is a new capability they never had. Oh, we have the ability to alert and monitor at different processes with different batches, different brews, different yeast types. Then now they're also training and learning. And we're going to turn that into eventually a product that other breweries might be able to use. >> So back to the kind of nuts and bolts of the system. The device that you have here has essentially wifi antennas on the back. >> Warren: Correct. >> Pull that up again if you would, please. >> Now I've seen this, just so people are clear, there are also paddle 5G antennas that go on the other side. >> Correct. >> That's sort of the connection from the 5G network that then gets transmogrified, technical term guys, into wifi so the devices that are physically connected to the brew vats, don't know what they're called. >> Fermentation tanks. >> Fermentation tanks, thank you. Those are wifi. That's a wifi signal that's going into this. Is that correct? >> Scott: No. >> No, it's not. >> It's a hard wire. >> Okay, okay. >> But, you're right. This particular gateway. >> It could be wifi if it's hard wire. >> It could be, yes. Could be any technology really. >> This particular gateway is not outfitted with 5G, but something that was very important in this application was to isolate the IT network, which is on wifi and physically connected from the OT network, which is the 5G connection. So we're sending the data directly from the gateway up to the cloud. The two partners that we worked with on this project were ifm, big sensor manufacturer that actually did the wired sensors into an industrial network called IO-Link. So they're physically wired into the gateway and then in the gateway we have a solution from our partner Telit that has deviceWISE software that actually takes the data in, runs the analytics on it, the logic, and then visualizes that data locally on those panels and also up to their cloud, which is what we're looking at. So they can look at it locally, they're in the plant and then up in the cloud on a phone or a tablet, whatever, when they're at home. >> We're talking about a small business here. I don't know how many employees they have, but it's not thousands. And I love that you're talking about an IT network and an OT network. And so they wanted, it is very common when we talk about industrial internet of things use cases, but we're talking about a tiny business here. >> Warren: Correct. >> They wanted to separate those networks because of cost, because of contention. Explain why. >> Yeah, just because, I mean, they're running their ERP system, their payroll, all of their kind of the way they run their business on their IT network and you don't want to have the same traffic out on the factory floor on that network, so it was pretty important. And the other thing is we really, one of the things that we didn't want to do in this project is interrupt their production process at all. So we installed this entire system in two days. They didn't have to shut down, they didn't have to stop. We didn't have to interrupt their process at all. It was like we were invisible there and we spun the thing up and within two days, very simple, easy, but tremendous value for their business. >> Talk about new markets here. I mean, it's like any company that's analog that needs to go digital. It's like 99% of the companies on the planet. What are you guys seeing out there in terms of the types of examples beyond breweries? >> Yeah, I could talk to that. So I spent a lot of time over the last couple years running my own little IoT company and a lot of it being in agriculture. So like in Washington state, 70% of the world's hops is actually grown in Washington state. It's my hometown. But in the Ag producing regions, there's lack of connectivity. So there's interest in private networks because the carriers aren't necessarily deploying it. But because we have the vast amount of hops there's a lot of IPAs, a lot of hoppy IPAs that come out of Seattle. And with that, there's a ton of craft breweries that are about the same size, some are a little larger. Anheuser-Busch and InBev and Heineken they've got great IoT platforms. They've done it. They're mass scale, they have to digitize. But the smaller shops, they don't, when we talk about IT/OT separation, they're not aware of that. They think it's just, I get local broadband and I get wifi and one hotspot inside my facility and it works. So a little bit of it was the education. I have got years in IT/OT security in my background so that education and we come forward with a solution that actually does that for them. And now they're aware of it. So now when they're asking questions of other vendors that are trying to sell them some type of solution, they're inherently aware of what should be done so they're not vulnerable to ransomware attacks, et cetera. So it's known as the Purdue Model. >> Well, what should they do? >> We came in and keep it completely separated and educated them because in the end too we'll build a design guide and a starter kit out of this that other brewers can use. Because I've toured dozens of breweries in Washington, the exact same scenario, analog gauges, analog process, very manual. And in the end, when you ask the brewer, what do they want out of this? It keeps them up at night because if the temperature goes out of range, because the chiller fails, >> They ruined. >> That's $30,000 lost in beer. That's a lot to a small business. However, it's also once they start digitizing the data and to Warren's point, it's read-only. We're not changing any of the process. We augmented on top of their existing systems. We didn't change their process. But now they have the ability to look at the data and see batch to batch consistency. Quality doesn't always mean best, it means consistency from batch to batch. Every beer from exhibit A from yesterday to two months from now of the same style of beer should be the same taste, flavor, boldness, et cetera. This is giving them the insights on it. >> It's like St. Louis Buds, when we were kids. We would buy the St. Louis Buds 'cause they tasted better than the Merrimack Buds. And then Budweiser made them all the same. >> Must be an East coast thing. >> It's an old guy thing, Dave. You weren't born yet. >> I was in high school. Yeah, I was in high school. >> We like the hops. >> We weren't 21. Do me a favor, clarify OT versus IT. It's something we talk about all the time, but not everyone's familiar with that separation. Define OT for me. >> It's really the factory floor. You got IT systems that are ERP systems, billing, you're getting your emails, stuff like that. Where the ransomware usually gets infected in. The OT side is the industrial control network. >> David: What's the 'O' stand for? >> Operation. >> David: Operation? >> Yeah, the operations side. >> 'Cause some people will think objects 'cause we think internet of things. >> The industrial operations, think of it that way. >> But in a sense those are things that are connected. >> And you think of that as they are the safety systems as well. So a machine, if someone doesn't push the stop button, you'd think if there's a lot of traffic on that network, it isn't guaranteed that that stop button actually stops that blade from coming down, someone's going to lose their arm. So it's very tied to safety, reliability, low latency. It is crafted in design that it never touches the internet inherently without having to go through a security gateway which is what we did. >> You mentioned the large companies like InBev, et cetera. You're saying they're already there. Are they not part of your target market? Or are there ways that you can help them? Is this really more of a small to mid-size company? >> For this particular solution, I think so, yeah. Because the cost to entry is low. I mean, you talk about InBev, they have millions of dollars of budgets to spend on OT. So they're completely automated from top to bottom. But these little craft brewers, which they're everywhere in the US. Vermont, Washington state, they're completely manual. A lot of these guys just started in their garage. And they just scaled up and they got a cult kind of following around their beers. One thing that we found here this week, when you talk around edge and 5G and beer, those things get people excited. In our booth we're serving beer, and all these kind of topics, it brings people together. >> And it lets the little guy compete more effectively with the big giants. >> Correct. >> And how do you do more with less as the little guy is kind of the big thing and to Warren's point, we have folks come up and say, "Great, this is for beer, but what about wine? What about the fermentation process of wine?" Same materials in the end. A vessel of some sort, maybe it's stainless steel. The clamps are the same, the sensors are the same. The parameters like temperature are key in any type of fermentation. We had someone talking about olive oil and using that. It's the same sanitary beverage style equipment. We grabbed sensors that were off the shelf and then we integrated them in and used the set of platforms that we could. How do we rapidly enable these guys at the lowest possible cost with stuff that's at the shelf. And there's four different companies in the solution. >> We were having a conversation with T-Mobile a little earlier and she mentioned the idea of this sounding scary. And this is a great example of showing that in fact, at a relatively small scale, this technology makes a lot of sense. So from that perspective, of course you can implement private 5G networks at an industrial scale with tens of millions of dollars of investment. But what about all of the other things below? And that seems to be a perfect example. >> Yeah, correct. And it's one of the things with the gateway and having flexibility the way Dell did a great job of putting really good modems in it. It had a wide spectrum range of what bands they support. So being able to say, at a larger facility, I mean, if Heineken wants to deploy something like this, oh, heck yeah, they probably could do it. And they might have a private 5G network, but let's say T-Mobile offers a private offering on their public via a slice. It's easy to connect that radio to it. You just change the sims. >> Is that how the CSPs fit here? How are they monetized? >> Yeah, correct. So one of our partners is T-Mobile and so we're working with them. We've got other telco partners that are coming on board in our lab. And so we'll do the same thing. We're going to take this back and put it in the lab and offer it up as others because the baseline building blocks or Lego blocks per se can be used in a bunch of different industries. It's really that starter point of giving folks the idea of what's possible. >> So small manufacturing, agriculture you mentioned, any other sort of use cases we should tune into? >> I think it's environmental monitoring, all of that stuff, I see it in IoT deployments all over the world. Just the simple starter kits 'cause a farmer doesn't want to get sold a solution, a platform, where he's got to hire a bunch of coders and partner with the big carriers. He just wants something that works. >> Another use case that we see a lot, a high cost in a lot of these places is the cost of energy. And a lot of companies don't know what they're spending on electricity. So a very simple energy monitoring system like that, it's a really good ROI. I'm going to spend five or $10,000 on a system like this, but I'm going to save $20,000 over a year 'cause I'm able to see, have visibility into that data. That's a lot of what this story's about, just giving visibility into the process. >> It's very cool, and like you said, it gets people excited. Is it a big market? How do you size it? Is it a big TAM? >> Yeah, so one thing that Dell brings to the table in this space is people are buying their laptops, their servers and whatnot from Dell and companies are comfortable in doing business with Dell because of our model direct to customer and whatnot. So our ability to bring a device like this to the OT space and have them have that same user experience they have with laptops and our client products in a ruggedized solution like this and bring a lot of partners to the table makes it easy for our customers to implement this across all kinds of industries. >> So we're talking to billions, tens of billions. Do we know how big this market is? What's the TAM? I mean, come on, you work for Dell. You have to do a TAM analysis. >> Yes, no, yeah. I mean, it really is in the billions. The market is huge for this one. I think we just tapped into it. We're kind of focused in on the brewery piece of it and the liquor piece of it, but the possibilities are endless. >> Yeah, that's tip of the spear. Guys, great story. >> It's scalable. I think the biggest thing, just my final feedback is working and partnering with Dell is we got something as small as this edge gateway that I can run a Packet Core on and run a 5G standalone node and then have one of the small little 5G radios out there. And I've got these deployed in a farm. Give the farmer an idea of what's possible, give him a unit on his tractor, and now he can do something that, we're providing connectivity he had never had before. But as we scale up, we've got the big brother to this. When we scale up from that, we got the telco size units that we can put. So it's very scalable. It's just a great suite of offerings. >> Yeah, outstanding. Guys, thanks for sharing the story. Great to have you on theCUBE. >> Good to be with you today. >> Stop by for beer later. >> You know it. All right, Dave Vellante for Dave Nicholson and the entire CUBE team, we're here live at the Fira in Barcelona MWC '23 day four. Keep it right there. (upbeat music)

Published Date : Mar 2 2023

SUMMARY :

that drive human progress. and Scott Waller, the CTO of that we're going to talk about. the capabilities to do it of finding these guys. for the entire industry, So the value of it, Explain the story. of the brewery back in November timeframe. and by the time they realized of this workflow here? is the final product. and into the edge gateway. that from this dashboard. that in the floor instead Scott: This is actually and I'm thinking something's that other breweries might be able to use. nuts and bolts of the system. Pull that up again that go on the other side. so the devices that are Is that correct? This particular gateway. if it's hard wire. It could be, yes. that actually takes the data in, And I love that you're because of cost, because of contention. And the other thing is we really, It's like 99% of the that are about the same size, And in the end, when you ask the brewer, We're not changing any of the process. than the Merrimack Buds. It's an old guy thing, Dave. I was in high school. It's something we talk about all the time, It's really the factory floor. 'cause we think internet of things. The industrial operations, But in a sense those are doesn't push the stop button, You mentioned the large Because the cost to entry is low. And it lets the little is kind of the big thing and she mentioned the idea And it's one of the of giving folks the all over the world. places is the cost of energy. It's very cool, and like you and bring a lot of partners to the table What's the TAM? and the liquor piece of it, Yeah, that's tip of the spear. got the big brother to this. Guys, thanks for sharing the story. and the entire CUBE team,

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Alan Cohen, Illumio | Nutanix .NEXT 2017


 

>> Live from Washington D.C., it's the CUBE covering dot next conference. Brought to you by Nutanix. >> Welcome back to Nutanix.next everybody. This is Dave Villante with Stu and this is the CUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. We go out to the events, we extract the signal from the noise. Alan Cohen is here, he's the chief commercial officer of hot startup Illumio. Alan, friend of the CUBE, great to see you again. Always happy to be here. Wherever you guys are, I'm going to show up. >> It's nice not to be in Silicon Valley for a change, hanging out with the CUBE. >> Right, the real world, you'll have to talk to John Courier that things happen outside of Palo Alto. >> So the timing of this interview is perfect because we just had Stephen Hadley on, who's sort of a public policy expert. We were talking about basically how industry should really lead with this whole new era of cyber and he was talking about if we let government do it, they're probably going to mess it up. >> Right. >> So it's guys like yourselves and others in our industry that really have to lead, so, but before we do that, give us the update on Illumio. You guys did another big raise, you guys are smokin' hot, growing like crazy, what's the update? >> So I mean so since we spoke to you guys last we did have a little funding round. It was led by J.P. Morgan Chase. You might have heard of them, they have credit cards and branches and things like that. Actually, they're also a customer of Illumio's. Which is a really big deal. They are advanced, so we're growing very rapidly, lot of geographic expansion, lot of technology expansion and I think actually today and this morning Sineal and the technology roadmap talked about micro segmentation, the ability to create really smaller and smarter water tight compartments around your data, down even to the workload or the process level is just going to be a way that people are going to have to do their computing. And so as you look at the journey now from data center or enterprise cloud into public cloud, this approach to security that we're building is a key component allowing people to take advantage of cloud architectures. So that's also really led to our growth. >> So I think it's fair to say you guys are really the pioneer of this concept of micro segmentation. Others have sort of hopped on board. >> Well I got to give Vmware credit, they actually did break- >> They were first. >> Yeah, but they- >> To commercialize it. >> Yeah, they commercialized it in their environment, I would say Illumio is the first company through software to commercialize it in all environments. In a cloud, in a box, with a fox, in a house, with a mouse, bare metal virtual machines, containers, Amazon, Azure, Oracle, across all of those environments simultaneously. And I think we were talking earlier this morning about the idea of multi-cloud, right? So you're going to pick your cloud based on where the workload and the applications should live. So your security has to move with that. And that's really what we've focused on. >> Right, okay, so VMware's there, you know Cisco's in there as well, so- >> Yeah, I've heard of those guys. >> Duking it out, so how do you feel about our competitive position, talk about about that a little bit. >> Well, we feel good that our competitors have finally kind of woken up and started to amplify our message. About this, you know, at the end of the day, you have to make a decision whether your goal in building security is to drive the sale of your infrastructure, or is to make your customer's environment more secure wherever they run. So in their own environments they're clearly adding value. But at the end of the day they're dependent on maintaining server licenses or upgrading your switches. That's not a really good motivation for how to make your security decision. You should make your security decision based on what you're trying to do, not what infrastructure you're in. >> Okay, so, now what about the traditional security guys? Are they catching up, are they hopping on board, do they just think this is an itch that's not worth it, or they just missed the boat? >> Well, you know, with the I'm being respectful and aggressive at the same time, I think most of the firewall vendors have been primarily focused on the perimeter, and then they've looked at APT technologies, things like fire I have done and they've made a lot of their investments there, so they have not been as focused. Now, to also be fair, in the heart of the data center in the public cloud, you don't see firewall technology. Right? So people said I have this hard crunchy exterior, I protect the perimeter of my environment, and I assume once I protect the perimeter the inside is safe. So their traditional model didn't lend itself to that kind of introspection and focus on the interior. What's happened in the last couple of years, though, and you had Hadley on, is that the focus of cyber has shifted to the interior, right? So, Target, Sony, OPM, all the big breaches started with basically vulnerabilities on the inside that have then kind of spread and then ex-filtrated outside of the organization. So we started focusing on the inside out, not the outside in, I mean to say I think ultimately the large security venues and perimeters, they're partners of ours, because they're going to wind up working both sides of the equation. >> Yeah, because even an air gap doesn't protect you. >> You don't want an air gap, actually, you know, we have a partnership with F-five, we actually talked about it with the CUBE couple years ago, because you think about the consequence of something like a load balancer, it sits between tiers of applications, you don't want that to be a black box. So the basically the world is moving into the zero trust model, so trust nothing. And you know it's kind of like running it you know like in a mob, it's like the Sopranos, you've got to make sure everybody does the collections and everybody's got to check in everyday, everything's got to be part of the security fabric. >> Alan, so, bringing it back to the Nutanix discussion. We had Sue Neil on earlier in the keynote this morning I saw broad ecosystem, love our partners, saw Illumio, >> Huge logo, wasn't that great? They got me. >> Great glow man, they finally figured it out. >> Release the Krakken, yeah, you know what, up there. And I asked Neil, how do you balance the we're going to have broad ecosystem but seems a lot of that energy is being put into AHV. And one of the examples he brought up was like oh, if you buy, if you use AHV, you get micro segmentation for free included in there. What are you seeing, how does Nutanix fit into micro segmentation environment? >> Yeah, I mean I showed her the slides too, right, so? If you remember how he defined it, if I have ten workloads, and I want to segment them off, I will put it in what I call micro segmentation. And that to me is like a virtual network segment, but he said you don't have to use an FCN overlay, and that is not any different than what a security group does in Amazon or Azure and I assume Google has its own version of that. When you go into that couple of levels deeper, that's where Illumio lives. So we live inside public cloud security groups today and across them and to non-environment. So you got to remember a lot of people are going to have Nutanix workloads, but then they're going to have workloads sitting in Azure and they're not going to have anything to do with each other for awhile from a software point of view. So illumio is really that bridge. So I mean I think it's actually a fairly synergystic kind of relationship to do that. Actually for me, that recognition, and that communication and micro segmentation into their base, is really good. So, you're always going to have a little bit of overlap. I mean they're smart and they really build great software. >> So it sounds like you're saying the definitions of micro segmentation are a little bit complementary and you're also going to help with that heterogeneous mess that everybody has and gives them consistent security across those environments. >> Right, we don't define micro segmentation that way. I might want to say I want to micro segment off one workload or I want to segment processes or I'm going to have a Kubernetes application running someplace and then I'm going to have the core database someplace else. How do I move across that? >> So it's granularity and flexibility of the use case that you provide. >> Yeah, we have this thing we call the wheel of cheese, from the segmentation. So there's like rough front use segmentation, and then there's micro and then there's nano, so over time, people are going to basically close the gates tighter and tighter. Because the challenge in cyber is lateral spread. Like you guys you have these fast high speed networks. So if I compromise one server, one workload, today it flies through the environment, so you actually have to keep closing those doors from a security point of view. So, I mean I think it was a great first move for them. And I mean, we like it, it works really well. We work with other vendors, cloud vendors, today that do some form of segmentation. >> So I know we're super tight on time, everybody wants to talk security, and your schedule's packed John Furry is watching, no surprise. >> Oh, hey John. >> So when he has to give up the mic there's always crowd chat, so he's got a question on crowd share for you. Ask Alan about the economics of the cyber security business models with all this stuff going on with cyber war and ransom ware and- >> Yes, so here are some stats. You guys are great analysts you focus on this. So cyber security is about a hundred billion dollar business somewhere between 80 and 100, depending on who's counting on that. But think about the scheme of overall IT. How much is IT? Three trillion dollars? >> Trillions, yeah. >> Right, so a hundred billion dollars is a fairly small segment. Now, I would be disingenuous as a vendor, but I'll go for it, I would say people are highly underinvested in security relative ... Stu's laughing his head off, right? >> Well, is that not a big enough pie for you, come on. >> No, it's not, I think the pie should be like five times bigger, I mean. >> You don't want to make that comparison with health insurance, do you? >> You have health insurance, you have life insurance, you insurance on your car, you have insurance on your home. You guys are high net worth individuals, you probably have policies so you don't get sued. You probably spend ten percent of your total income on forms of insurance, things that protect you and your family. >> So you're saying it should be triple the spend. >> Why are you only spending two or three percent of your IT given the criticality of the data that's sitting in those environments? >> Okay, so we know we only pay for insurance when we need it, in marketing the joke's always I waste half of money, I just don't know which half. You know, how much are we wasting in security vs. >> Well, I mean I think if you're buying infrastructure based models you're spending, you're building, you're wasting a lot. Illumio is a consumption-based model based on how much you use. So I mean we look more like you know, it's a per operating system instance that you pay a yearly license for. So I think we're closer to the Amazon consumption model for security, and we've led with that four years ago, when we started the company. So I think if security became more like you pay as you go, and less pay for just having it, just as we talk about the different models for infrastructure, where I own it, where I rent it, where I pay as I go, I think you will get better spends. I mean, we effectively sell security the way Uber sells or Lyft sells car, when you need to pay for it, use it, you pay for it. There's probably a whole lot of efficiency that could be there, but I'd argue it's under invested. >> Well, the other dimension that is inside out vs. outside in, I mean, you're building more moats. We know still more money is spent over here. >> Well here's a stat. So the vast bulk of data center security, so the perimeter firewall market's about a ten billion dollar market. Only about Cisco just sent out their announcement this week about their cloud index. 17 percent of the traffic, net traffic that goes in and out of the data center and about 80 percent of it's inside, and a little bit of it goes to the co-load, right? So you are putting all your investment on 17 percent of your traffic. So that's like buying all the cable channels. You watch the cooking channel? You're paying for it. You're watching rugged outdoor fishermen channel? You're paying for it. So I think you're going to have to, just like you're making infrastructure investments are moving to paying for what you use, your security investments have to go the same way. So why would you put all your money only guarding 17% of your network traffic? >> Okay, we're out of time, but so, last question, what are you guys going to do, what are you doing with this big bag of money that you just got? Where are you directing it? What's your strategy? >> Well, I mean we're probably going to have to hire the CUBE to come to like Illumio. >> Fantastic, let's do that. >> Yeah, we're totally going to do that but ... >> Oh really, well, what's the show, Illumio World? >> Well there's going to be an Illumio World when we launch it you guys are going to be there. >> Fantastic, I'd love to be there. >> So, there's no doubt. You have that in writing, you have that on video, like testimony. >> Yeah, even better. >> Yeah, like I can't even say I didn't tweet it, like you'll have a record of it. >> We can shame you into it. >> You can totally shame me into it. I think you're going to see a lot of geographic expansion of the company. We're about to expand down under and other places we've been mostly in North America and parts of Europe. And a lot of investments going into the channels, strategic partnerships and I mean a lot like Nutanix, I mean our company's half R&D, we're going to just as heavily a year from now we'll still be half R&D. Even with growth, because we've got a lot of platform build, and we're building a platform that's going to be around for decades. So there's still a lot of engineering to do too. >> Al, we love having you on, you're plugged in, great Silicon Valley friend, really appreciate you coming back. >> Appreciate you having me today. >> You're welcome. Okay, keep it right there everybody, we're back with our next guest after this short break. This is the CUBE here live from next.conf. We'll be right back.

Published Date : Jun 29 2017

SUMMARY :

Brought to you by Nutanix. Alan, friend of the CUBE, great to see you again. Right, the real world, you'll have to talk to John Courier that things happen outside So the timing of this interview is perfect because we just had Stephen Hadley on, who's You guys did another big raise, you guys are smokin' hot, growing like crazy, what's the So I mean so since we spoke to you guys last we did have a little funding round. So I think it's fair to say you guys are really the pioneer of this concept of micro So you're going to pick your cloud based on where the workload and the applications should Duking it out, so how do you feel about our competitive position, talk about about About this, you know, at the end of the day, you have to make a decision whether your goal Now, to also be fair, in the heart of the data center in the public cloud, you don't You don't want an air gap, actually, you know, we have a partnership with F-five, we Alan, so, bringing it back to the Nutanix discussion. They got me. And one of the examples he brought up was like oh, if you buy, if you use AHV, you get And that to me is like a virtual network segment, but he said you don't have to use an FCN overlay, So it sounds like you're saying the definitions of micro segmentation are a little bit complementary or I'm going to have a Kubernetes application running someplace and then I'm going to have Like you guys you have these fast high speed networks. So I know we're super tight on time, everybody wants to talk security, and your schedule's Ask Alan about the economics of the cyber security business models with all this stuff You guys are great analysts you focus on this. Right, so a hundred billion dollars is a fairly small segment. You have health insurance, you have life insurance, you insurance on your car, you Okay, so we know we only pay for insurance when we need it, in marketing the joke's always So I mean we look more like you know, it's a per operating system instance that you pay Well, the other dimension that is inside out vs. outside in, I mean, you're building moving to paying for what you use, your security investments have to go the same way. Well there's going to be an Illumio World when we launch it you guys are going to be You have that in writing, you have that on video, like testimony. So there's still a lot of engineering to do too. Al, we love having you on, you're plugged in, great Silicon Valley friend, really appreciate This is the CUBE here live from next.conf.

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