>>from >>around the >>globe, it's the >>cube with digital >>coverage of IBM, >>Think 2021 >>brought to you by IBM. Welcome back to the cubes coverage of IBM Think 2021 virtual, I'm john for your host of the cube, had a great line up here talking sustainability. Kary musa ph d general manager of AI applications and block chains, career great to see you and wayne both the vice president of corporate environmental affairs and chief sustainability officer, among other things involved in the products around that. Wait and korean, great to see you. Thanks for coming on. >>Thank you for having us. >>Well, I'll start with you. What's driving? IBMS investment sustainability as a corporate initiative. We know IBM has been active, we've covered this many times, but there's more drivers now as IBM has more of a larger global scope and continues to do that with hybrid cloud, it's much more of a global landscape. What's driving today's investments in sustainability, >>you know, johN what drives IBM in this area has always been a longstanding, mature and deep seated belief in corporate responsibility. That's the bedrock foundation. So, you know, IBM is 100 10 year old company. We've always strived to be socially responsible, But what's not as well known is that for the last 50 years, IBM has truly regarded environmental sustainability is a strategic imperative. Okay, It's strategic because hey, environmental problems require a strategic fix. It's long term imperative because you have to be persistent with environmental problems, you don't necessarily solve them overnight. And it's imperative because business cannot succeed in a world of environmental degradation, that really is the main tenant of sustainable development. You can't have successful economies with environmental degradation, you can't solving environmental problems without successful economies. So, and IBM's case as a long standing company, We were advantaged because 50 years ago our ceo at the time, Tom Watson put in place the company's first policy for environmental, our stewardship and we've been at it ever since. And he did that in 1971 and that was just six months after the U. S. C. P. A. Was created. It was a year before the Stockholm Conference on the Environment. So we've been added for that long. Um in essence really it's about recognizing that good environmental management makes good business sense. It's about corporate responsibility and today it's the E of E. S. G. >>You know, wayne. That's a great call out, by the way, referencing thomas Watson that IBM legend. Um people who don't may not know the history, he was really ahead of its time and that was a lot of the culture they still see around today. So great to see that focus and great, great call out there. But I will ask though, as you guys evolved in today's modern error. How is that evolved in today's focus? Because you know, we see data centers, carbon footprint, global warming, you now have uh A I and analytics can measure everything. So I mean you can you can measure everything now. So as the world gets larger in the surface area of what is contributing to the sustainable equation is larger, what's the current IBM focus? >>So, you know, these days we continually look at all of the ways in which IBM s day to day business practices intersect with any matter of the environment, whether it's materials waste water or energy and climate. And IBM actually has 21 voluntary goals that drive us towards leadership. But today john as you know, uh the headline is really climate change and so we're squarely focused like many others on that. And that's an imperative. But let me say before I just before I briefly tell you our current goals, it's also important to have context as to where we have been because that helps people understand what we're doing today. And so again, climate change is a topic that the men and women of IBM have paid attention to for a long time. Yeah, I was think about it. It was back in 1992 that the U. S. C. P. A. Created something called Energy Star. People look at that and they say, well, what's that all about? Okay, that's all about climate change. Because the most environmentally friendly energy you can get is the energy that you don't really need to consume. IBM was one of eight companies that helped the U. S. C. P. A. Launched that program 1992. Today we're all disclosing C. 02 emissions. IBM began doing that in 1994. Okay. In 2007, 13 years ago, I'd be unpublished. Its position on climate change, calling for urgent action around the world. We supported the Paris agreement 2015. We reiterated that support in 2017 for the us to remain a partner. 2019, we became a founding member of Climate Leadership Council, which calls for a carbon tax and a carbon dividend. So that's all background context. Today, we're working on our third renewable electricity goal, our fifth greenhouse gas emissions reduction goal and we set a new goal to achieve net zero greenhouse gas emissions. Each of those three compels IBM to near term >>action. That's awesome wayne as corporate environmental affairs and chief sustainable, great vision and awesome work. Karim dr Karim use if I wanna. We leave you in here, you're the general manager. You you've got to make this work because of the corporate citizenship that IBM is displaying. Obviously world world class, we know that's been been well reported and known, but now it's a business model. People realize that it's good business to have sustainability, whether it's carbon neutral footprints and or intersecting and contributing for the world and their employees who want mission driven companies ai and Blockchain, that's your wheelhouse. This is like you're in the big wave, wow, this is happening, give us your view because you're commercializing this in real time. >>Yeah, look as you've already said and it's the way well articulated, this is a business imperative, right? Is key to all companies corporate strategies. So the first step when you think about operationalized in this is what we've been doing, is to really step back and kind of break this down into what we call five key needs or focus areas that we've understood that we work with our clients. Remember in this context, Wayne is indeed my clients as well. Right. And so when you think about it, the five needs, as we like to lay them out, we talk about the sustainability strategy first of all, how are you approaching it as you saw from Wayne, identifying your key goals and approaches right against that, you begin to get into various areas and dimensions. Climate risk management is becoming increasingly important, especially in asset heavy industries electrification, energy and emissions management, another key focus area where we can bring technology to bear resilient infrastructure and operations, sustainable supply chain, all of these kind of come together to really connect with our clients business operations and allows us to bring together the technologies and the context of ai Blockchain and the key business operations. We can support to kind of begin to address specific news cases in the context of those needs. >>You know, I've covered it in the past and written about and also talked about the cube about sustainability on the supply chain side with Blockchain, whether it's your tracking, you know, um you know, transport of goods with with Blockchain and making sure that that kind of leads your kind of philosophy works because this waste involved is also disruption to business a security issues. But when you really move into the Ai side, how does a company scale that Corinne? Because now, you know, I have to one operationalize it and then scale it. Okay, so that's transformed, innovate and scale. How do I take take me through the examples of how that works >>well, I think really key to that, and this is really key to our ethos, it's enabling ai for business by integrating ai directly into business operations and decision making. So it's not really how can I put this? We try to make it so that the client isn't fixating on trying to deploy ai, they're just leveraging Ai. So as you say, let's take some practical examples. You talked about sustainable supply chains and you know, the key needs around transparency and provenance. Right? So we have helped clients like a tear with their seafood network or the shrimp sustainability network, where there's a big focus on understanding where are things being sourced and how they're moving through the supply chain. We also have a responsible sourcing business network that's being used for cobalt in batteries as an example from mine to manufacturing and here our technologies are allowing us to essentially track, trace and prove the provenance Blockchain serves as kind of that key shared ledger to pull all this information together. But we're leveraging AI to begin to quickly assess based upon the data inputs, the actual state of inventory, how to connect dots across multiple suppliers and as you onboard them and off board them off the network. So that's how we begin to put A. I in action so that the client begins to fixate on the work and the decisions they need to make. Not the AI itself. Another quick example would be in the context of civil infrastructure. One of our clients son and Belt large, maximum client of ours, he uses maximum to really focus on the maintenance and sustainable maintenance of their bridges. Think about how much money is spent setting up to do bridge inspections right. When you think about how much they have to invest the stopping of the traffic that scaffolding. We have been leveraging AI to do things like visual inspection, actually fly drones, take pictures, assess those images to identify cracks and use that to route and prioritized work. Similar examples are occurring in energy and utilities focused on vegetation management where we're leveraging ai to analyse satellite imagery, weather data and bringing it together so that work can be optimally prior authorized and deployed um for our clients. >>It's interesting. One of the themes coming out of think that I'm observing is this notion of transformation is innovation and innovation is about scale. Right? So it's not just innovation for innovating sake. You can transform from whether it's bridge inspections to managing any other previous pre existing kind of legacy condition and bring that into a modern error and then scale it with data. This is a common theme. It applies to to your examples. Kareem, that's super valuable. Um how do you how do you tie that together with partnering? Because wayne you were talking about the corporate initiative, that's just IBM we learned certainly in cybersecurity and now these other areas like sustainability, it's a team sport, you have to work on a global footprint with other industries and other leaders. How was I being working across the industry to connect and work with other, either initiatives or companies or governments. >>Sure. And there have been john over the years and at present a number of diverse collaborations that we seek out and we participate in. But before I address that, I just want to amplify something Kareem said, because it's so important, as I look back at the environmental movement over the last 50 years, frankly, since the first earth day in 1970, I, you know, with the benefit of hindsight, I observed there have really been three different hair, It's in the very beginning, global societies had to enact laws to control pollution that was occurring. That was the late 60s 1970s, into the early 1980s and around the early 1980s through to the first part of this century, that era of let's get control of this sort of transformed, oh, how can we prevent stuff from happening given the way we've always done business and that area ran for a while. But now, thanks to technology and data and things like Blockchain and ai we all have the opportunity to move into this era of innovation, which differs from control in which differs from traditional prevention. Innovation is about changing the way you get the same thing done. And the reason that's enabled is because of the tools that you just spoke about with korean. So how do we socialize these opportunities? Well to your question, we interact with a variety of diverse teams, government, different business associations, NGos and Academia. Some examples. There's an organization named the Center for Climate and Energy Solutions, which IBM is a founding member of its Business Leadership Council. Its predecessor was the Q Centre on global climate change. We've been involved with that since 1998. That is a cross section of people from all these different constituencies who are looking for solutions to climate. Many Fortune 102000s in there were part of the green grid. The green grid is an organization of companies involved with data centers and it's constantly looking at how do you measure energy efficiency and data centers and what are best practices to reduce consumption of energy at data centers where a member of the renewable energy buyers alliance? Many Fortune 100 200 Zar in that trying to apply scale to procure more renewable electricity to actually come to our facilities I mentioned earlier were part of the Climate Leadership Council calling for a carbon tax were part of the United Nations Environment programs science policy business form that gets us involved with many ministers of environment from countries around the world. We recently joined the new MITt Climate and sustainability consortium. Mitt Premier Research University. Many key leaders are part of that. Looking at how academic research can supercharge this opportunity for innovation and then the last one, I'm just wrap up call for code. You may be familiar with IBM s involvement in call for code. Okay. The current challenge under Call for Code in 2021 calls for solutions targeted the climate change. So that's that's a diverse set of different constituents, different types of people. But we try to get involved with all of them because we learn and hopefully we contribute something along the way as well. >>Awesome Wayne. Thank you very much, Karim, the last 30 seconds we got here. How do companies partner with IBM if they want to connect in with the mission and the citizenship that you guys are doing? How do they bring that to their company real quick. Give us a quick overview. >>Well, you know, it's really quite simple. Many of these clients are already clients of ours were engaging with them in the marketplace today, right, trying to make sure we understand their needs, trying to ensure that we tune what we've got to offer both in terms of product and consulting services with our GPS brethren, you know, to meet their needs, linking that in as well to IBM being in what we like to turn clients zero. We're also applying these same technologies and capabilities to support IBM efforts. And so as they engage in all these associations, what IBM is doing, that also provides a way to really get started. It's really fixate on those five imperatives or needs are laid out, picked kind of a starting point and tie it to something that matters. That changes how you're doing something today. That's really the key. As far as uh we're concerned, >>Karim, we thank you for your time on sustainability. Great initiative. Congratulations on the continued mission. Going back to the early days of IBM and the Watson generation continuing out in the modern era. Congratulations and thanks for sharing. >>Thank you john. >>Okay. It's the cubes coverage. I'm sean for your host. Thanks for watching. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm.

>> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering Informatica World 2019. Brought to you by Informatica. >> Hey welcome back everyone, you're here live in Las Vegas for theCUBE, for Informatica World 2019. I'm John Furrier, co-host of theCUBE. We've got two great guests here from Snowflake. We've got Tarik Dwiek who's the Director of Technology Alliances at Snowflake, and Rik Tamm-Daniels, Vice President of Strategic Ecosystems and Technology at Informatica. Welcome back to theCUBE, good to see you guys. >> Good to see you as well. >> Thanks for coming on Snowflake. Congratulations, you guys are doing really well. >> Thank you. >> Big growth, new CEO, Frank Slootman, Informatica, The Data, Zar, Neutral Third Party, Switzerland, cloud, you've got Switzerland, what's the relationship, explain. >> Well, I think you know, it's funny that comment comes up a fair amount and yeah, I look at this way. It's not so much that you know, with Switzerland what we're focused on though is where customers are choosing to go in their journey, we want to provide them the best experience possible, right. So we end up going very deep in our strategic ecosystems, and Snowflakes is one of those partners that we've seen tremendous growth with, and customers are adopting, So, very excited about the partnership. >> How about your relationship with Informatica, Why are you here? What's the story? >> Yeah definitely, so at Snowflake, we put customers first, right? And as Rick mentioned, it's all about having a diverse ecosystem in the enterprise. Informatica is a leader. When you look at where customers are going with data, right? Obviously data integration is key. Data quality is key, data governance. All the areas that Informatica has been the best to breed in, it just makes sense for continued to make traction in these enterprise customers. >> Take a bit to explain the business model of Snowflake, what you guys do, quick one minute. >> Sure, so Snowflake's a data warehouse solution built from the ground up for the cloud. Why the distinction is important is because we're the only data warehouse born in the cloud. If you look at how the other solutions are doing it today, they're taking an architecture, an architecture created a decade ago for an on-premise world and they're just shifting into cloud. And the challenge that you have there is that you can't take full advantage of things like instant and infinite resources, both compute and storage, right? Independent scaling of computing storage. Elasticity right, the ability to scale up and down and out with a click of a button. And then even being able to support massive incurrence. Things like loading data at the same time that you're querying data. This is what Snowflake was built for. >> How about datasets from other people. That's one of the benefits of having data in the cloud. >> Correct, so our architecture is key. That's the key to our business and our product and what we've done is we separated compute from storage and we become a centralized database. And what we found by creating additional views, you can actually share your data with yourself and you can share with other customers. We've created this concept of data sharing. Data sharing has been around for decades, but it's been very painful. What we've done is created an online performant, secure way for customers to share the data. >> Rik this really highlights the value proposition for Informatica. I always say, you know, data is always, beauty of the data is in the eye of the beholder. Depending on where you're sitting in from. You could be on-premises, you have legacy, you could be born in the cloud and taking advantage of all that cloud stuff. Graham Thompson was on earlier he said, "Hey if you've got data in the cloud "why move it on premise?" So you know, there should be a choice of what's best. And that's what you guys come in. What specifically are you guys tying together with data warehouse in the cloud and and maybe a customer may want to choose to have for compliance reasons, or a viariety of other reasons on prem or another location. >> I think one of the big things about cloud data warehouses in particular, it's not all things being equal at the on-premise world, right? The level of agility you get with the Snowflake where it's infinite scale out, up in a few minutes. That empowers so much transformation in the organization. That's why it's so compelling, and so many folks are adopting it. And so what we're doing is we're helping customers on that journey though. Because they've got a very complex data environment and they got to first of all understand how's this all put together to be able to start modernizing moving to the cloud. >> I'm sorry if I asked the question where should a customer store their data; on the cloud or on-premise. I know where you'll come in on that. It's cloud all the way, because that's what you do. But this is something that architects in the enterprise have been dealing with because they do have legacy stuff. So and we've seen with the SAS business models, data has been really key for their success because it gives them risk-taking or, actually risk taking meaning they can do things, maybe testing to whatever. Test certain features on certain users. Basically use the data basically to create value. And then the upside of taking that risk is reward. You have more revenue, hockey stick growth and the numbers are pretty clear. Enterprises want that. >> They do. >> But they're not really set up for it. How do they get there? >> The best part with a SAS model is customers can de-risk by putting some of their data, for instance Snowflake, right? We work across AWS and Azure. So customers that maybe aren't all in yet on either cloud provider can start using Snowflake and put data in Snowflake and test it out. Test out the performance and the security of cloud. And if for whatever reason it doesn't work out they haven't risked very much if anything. And if it does work out then they've got a great proving ground for that. So the SAS opens up a lot of possibilities for enterprise customers. >> I brought this up with Graeme Connelly. You know, he's from Scotland so I understand his perspective. I'm from Silicon Valley so I took my perspective. I said you know, when I hear regulation I see you know, anti innovation, right? Like when I hear governments coming involved putting you know, regulation on things. We're seeing a very active regulatory environment on tech companies around data. GDPR one-year anniversary. This is a real issue. How do you turn that regulatory constraints around data, because what it means is more complexity around how to deal with the data. How do you turn that into an advantage. Obviously software abstraction certainly helps in tech, but customers are trying to move move faster with cloud. They can do that for all those reasons talked earlier. But now you got complexity around regulation. >> I think first off from a from a data warehouse perspective we were built with security and compliance in mind from day one, right? So you build in things like encryption, always-on encryption. You build things like role based access controls. Things like key management, right? And then when you think of Informatica within the data pipeline getting data from sources in and out of Snowflake, then you build additional data quality, data governance tools on top of that. Things like data catalog, right? Where you can, now just go discover what data you have out there, what data are you moving into the cloud, and what is the lineage of that data. >> Talk about this migration and movement because that becomes, people are generally skeptical when they hear migration like, oh my god migration. If they know it's going to cost some money or potentially technical risk. What's, how do you guys handle the migration in a way that's risk-free. >> I'll take that one. I'd say one of the things that we really put in front of all of our migration approaches for customers is the enterprise data catalog. And using the machine learning capabilities in the catalog to take what is a very complex landscape and make it very understandable accessible to the business. But then also understand how it's all put together. Where data's coming from, where it's going, who's consuming it. And once you have that view and that clarity of how things are put together it actually means you can take a use case based approach to adoption of the cloud and moving data. So you're actually realizing business value incrementally as you're moving. Which i think is really key right? if you do these massive multi-year projects and it takes a year to get any results it's not going to fly anymore, right? This is a much more agile world and so we're really empowering of that with the intelligence around data. >> Digital transformation has got three kind of categories we find when we poll people and do the research. You got the early adopters who have a full team they're cloud native, their jammin and their DevOps rockstars. They're kicking ass taking names. Then on the other end of spectrum you got you know, fear, oh my god, like I don't really have the talent. I'm going to do some, study it, spec it out, we got to figure it out. then you have people who are kind of like, you know, the fast followers, influenced kind of like focused. They tend to break down in the middle of projects. This seems to be the pattern. They get going and they get stuck in the mud. This is a real issue around culture and people. So I got to ask you, you know, a lot of these challenges around people and culture is huge skills gap. What is the biggest hiring skills gap that's needed to be filled so that people can be successful whether they're got a really rockstar team or smart team that just got to re-skill up. Or how do you take a project that's stuck in the mud and reboot it? These are challenges. >> I think when the nice things about Informatica is that you know, there's 100,000 folks out there who are familiar with Informatica's approach of implementations. So, by, you know, us bringing our technologies and embracing these journeys we're actually empowering customers to not have to get coders and data scientists. They're using some of those same data engineers but now they're bringing data to the cloud. >> And I think along the same lines we think of practitioners usually right? I need data scientists, I need more data engineers. I think a valuable asset that's that's becoming more clear now, is to have a new breed of data analyst, right? That understand how to put AI and machine learning together. How to start to grab all of the data that's out there for customers, right? Structured data, semi-structured data and make sure that they've got a single strategy along how to become data-driven. >> Give an example of some customers that you guys are working together with using Snowflake and Informatica. What are they, what are they doing? What's some of the use cases? What's some of the applications? >> Yeah so I think one of the biggest use cases is a data warehouse modernization, right? So you have the existing on-premise data warehouses. And I always like when I talk to customers think about, well realistically when you have a new use case on your on-premise warehouse. How long is it going to take you to actually see your first piece of data? I don't know a lot of people have extra capacity that's kind of hanging around in their warehouse right? We think about they have to make business cases, they have to get new Hardware, new licenses. It could take six months to see their first piece of data. So, you know I think it's a tremendous accelerator for them to go to the cloud. >> So the main thing there's agility. >> Yes, absolutely. >> Fast time to value. How's business with Snowflake? What's going on with you guys? What other use case you seeing besides the data warehouse. Modern data warehouse. >> Sure John, I can start with business in general. It's very exciting times at Snowflake right now. Late last year we got a funding round of $450 million for growth funding. Brings our total funding to just over $920 million. Our valuation doubled to 3.9 billion. That puts us in the top 25 highest valued private U.S. tech firms. Like I mentioned before we tripled the number of employees to over a thousand, across nine countries globally. We're going to expand to 20 or more in the next 12 months. And then in terms of my favorite part-- >> What's been the traction of that? Why this success? What's been the ah ha moment for customers with Snowflake? >> Yeah I think about what customers try and do in their data journey, there are probably three key things. Number one, they want to get access to all their data, right? And they want to do that in a very fast and economic way. They want to be able to get all the different variety of data that's out there. All the modern data types, right? Both the structured data, right? Their ERP is CRM systems, things about customers and product, and sales transactions, and then all this modern data, from web and social, from behavior data, from machine generate data in IOT. But they want to put all together. They don't want to have different, disparate systems to go and process this and try to bring back together today. That's been the challenge, is the complexity and the cost. And what we've done is start to remove those barriers. >> You know, I love the term now because I've hated it when it came out. Data Lake, during the Hadoop days we heard Data Lake. And then it turned into a data swamp. You start to see that get fixed a little bit. Because what people are afraid of is they're afraid of throwing all those data into a data swamp. They really want to get value out of it. This has been a hard thing the early days of Hadoop, but it was cool technically to be you know, putting Hadoop clusters together, and standing them up, but then it's like where's the value? >> I think the Data Lake concept in essence makes a lot of sense. Because you want to get all your data in one central place so you can ask these questions across all the different data types, and all different data sources. The challenge we had was you had the traditional data warehouse which couldn't support the new data types, and the diversity, just pure volume. And then you had newer no SQL like systems like Hadoop that could start to address just the sheer mass of data. But they were so complex that you needed an army, and you still do need an army, and then there's some limitations around performance, and other issues, and so no data projects we're making it into production. I think we still have a very small success rate when you think about data projects that actually make it to production. This is where with Snowflake, because we had the luxury to build it from the ground up, we saw the needs of both using a relational SQL database because SQL is still an amazing expressive language. People have invested skill sets and tools. And then be able to support the new semi-structured data types. All within the same system, right. All within SaaS model so you can start to remove complexity. it's self-managed. We have a self-managed SaaS offering, so customers don't have to worry about all the operational lifting. They can go and get inside to the data. And then because of the cloud they can take advantage of the elasticity in the scale and pay for what they use. >> What was the big bet on Snowflake that paid off. You had to kind of hone it down. >> But the biggest bet John was, we are architecting a database from scratch. Because if you look all the other solutions out there that get the fastest time to market is you can take an architecture that's been existing for a decade or so, and wrap it on a cloud. And that gets you some benefits of the cloud. For instance no need for upfront costs and implementing Hardware in the data center. You can offload some of the management and some of the maintenance to the cloud providers. But like I mentioned before you can't scale automatically. You can't take advantage of infinite scale, right? Because these systems were designed and on-premise role that had a thinking of finite resources. So I think our big bet was, do you create a new architecture. That's a big risk, but luckily it's paid off well. >> Big risk pay offs. Rik talk about the ecosystem. You guys have a big partner strategy. You have to. >> Yep. >> You guys are integrating integration points as comparing to you guys, not the sound like it's in a bad way but, Slack is going public so I'll use them as example. Slack is a software that's cloud-based but what made them really big besides, copying the message board kind of IRC chat, is that they have a huge integration points with all the key players that really fed that in. This is kind of something that in, as a metaphor is not directly directed to you guys but, you guys are very integration partner oriented. >> Yeah >> How is that playing out? Again, I'm sure this, I didn't see any strategy change still continuing. Give us the update, how's that going? It's a great example Snowflake here on theCUBE. This is core of Informatica. Take a minute to explain that strategy. >> Well I think the beginning of the journey of any of our ecosystem partners does start with the connectivity layer. But honestly you know, moving data from point A to point B. That's kind of, that's the tip of the iceberg, right? And so we've really focused on bringing really addressing all the challenges in the entire data journey. So it's one thing about first of all how do I even find the data to bring there. Now once I found it can I connect to it? Do I have the access to the data? Can I bring it to the right targets the customer wants consumed. But then once the data is there, is it usable, is it consumed, is it clean? If I'm doing customer 360, do I need to get my golden records? Or you mentioned GDPR, our whole data protection focus on, you know trying to create a perimeter between different parts of the enterprise, we're automatically applying masking encryption, those sorts of things. So we're really focused on integrating that as tightly as we can and making it seamless for customers to be able to tap into those capabilities when they need them. >> I mean feeding data to machine learning and then powering AI is a great example. If you don't have the right data at the right time for the machine learning, the AI doesn't work well. And then applications that are going to be using machine learning need to have access to data as fast as possible. Lag really hurts everything. This is a huge issue. >> Yeah I mean and we're looking at complete acceleration. You know that whole data discovery phase to build your models and train them. But to your point, garbage in garbage out, right? The old adage is still applicable today, and I think even but you've got security issues. What happens if your training data includes some sensitive code names that show up in your models all of a sudden, right? There's all these issues. But then you take it those models and operationalize them as well. Again, the inputs need to be clean, so. >> Cloud or on-premise, final word. Get your both take on it. Obviously your data warehouse in the cloud. For the customers that have an On-premise dynamic, whether it's legacy or whatever. I got to move to the cloud. I'm eventually going to have some cloud, and how it's going to look. What do they do? What's the State of the Union for dealing with data that's not just in the cloud. >> Yeah. >> Yeah >> You were first, go ahead. >> Yeah sure, I think again going back to having a SAS model, customers can pick specific project specific data sets to go and try out, right? Snowflake gives them a perfect example of, not even having to directly engage the cloud partner yet, right? They want to see if data can be ingested in the cloud in a very fast performant way. They want to see if security meets their needs, right? They want to test out all of the different things around management and ease of use. They can do that with Snowflake. Again, at a very low risk way. Because we are a SaaS platform. We've got a great model on elasticity. The customers can pay as they go just to try it out. So for me, when I think of these customers that are stuck there and trying to make a decision, I say look try Snowflake. It's a very risk-free way to start to analyze some data sets, and if it works for you then you've got a proof point of starting to move more and more workloads into the cloud. >> Rik, digital transformation. What are customers doing? What's the playbook? >> Yeah I think the recipe is, you know, one, the laser focus on value, right? Have you have your eyes on how am I going to get value as quickly as I can this transformation. Second thing is, understand what you have. Understand your existing landscape. That third piece is go. I get started, because I think the case for the cloud is so compelling for customers. I don't know a single customer that I talk with who is not already on the cloud journey. So it's really about making sure you get business value as you proceed down that journey. >> Get the proof points up front. >> Absolutely >> Think smaller steps >> Yep, incremental and casual >> Show the value. Sounds like agility DevOps. Guys thanks for coming on. Good to see you. It's Cube coverage here in Las Vegas, I'm John Furrier. Your host for theCube is Rebeca Night. Two days of wall-to-wall coverage. We'll back with more after this short break. (dramatic music)