foreign welcome to thecube's coverage of AWS re invent 2022. this is a part of our AWS executive Summit AT AWS re invent sponsored by Accenture I'm your host Lisa Martin I've got three guests here with me Christoph schulteis head of devops and infrastructure at Vodafone Germany joins us as well as IMAP baldasare the Accenture AWS business group Europe delivery lead attic Center and Philip schmuckel senior manager at Accenture technology we're going to be talking about what Vodafone Germany is doing in terms of its agile transformation the business and I.T gentlemen it's great to have you on thecube Welcome to the program thank you thanks for having us my pleasure Kristoff let's go ahead and start with you talk to us about what Vodafone Germany is doing in its transformation project with Accenture and with AWS certainly these are but let me first start with explaining what Vodafone does in general so Vodafone is one of the leading telephone and Technology service providers in Germany half of all German citizens are Vodafone customers using Vodafone technology to access the internet make calls and watch TV in the economic sector we provide connectivity for office farms and factories so this is vodafone's largest business and I.T transformation and we're happy to have several Partners on this journey with more than a thousand people working in scaled agile framework with eight Agile Release strings and one of the largest safe implementations in Europe why are we doing this transformation well not only since the recent uncertainties the Telco Market is highly volatile and there are a few challenges that Vodafone was facing in the last years as there are Market changes caused by disruptions from technological advances in competitors or changing customer customer expectations who for example use more of the top services like Netflix or Amazon Prime video what is coming up in the next wave is unknown so Technologies evolve continual disruption from non-tel causes to be expected and being able to innovate fast is the key Focus for everyone in order to be able to react to that we need to cope with that and do so in different aspects to become the leading digital technology company therefore Vodafone Germany is highly simplifying its products as well as processes for example introducing free product upgrades for customers we're driving the change from a business perspective and modernize the it landscape which we call the technology transformation so simply business-led but it driven for that Accenture is our integration partner and AWS provides the services for our platforms got it thank you for the background on the Vodafone the impact that it's making you mentioned the volatility in the Telecom market and also setting the context for what Vodafone Germany is doing with Accenture and AWS email I want to bring you into the conversation now talk to us about the partnership between Accenture and Vodafone in AWS and how is it set up to provide maximum value for customers yeah that's a great question actually well I mean working in Partnership allows obviously to bring in transparency and trust and these are key starting points for a program of this magnitude and a program like this comes out of strong willingness to change the game both internally and on the market so as you can imagine particular attention is required that's top level alignment in general when you implement a program like this you also need to couple the long-term vision of how you want to manage your customers what are the new products that you want to bring to the market with the long-term technology roadmap because the thing that you don't want to happen is that you invest many years and a lot of efforts and then when it comes the end of the journey you figure out that you have to restart a New Journey and then you enter in the NeverEnding Loop so obviously all these things must come together and they come together in what we call the power of three and it consists in AWS Vodafone and Accenture having a strategic Vision alignment and constant updates and most importantly the best of breed in terms of technology and also people so what we do in practice is uh we bring together Market understanding business Vision technical expertise energy collaboration and what is even more important we work as a unique team everybody succeeds here and this is a true win-win partnership more specifically Vodafone leads the Strategic Direction obviously they understand the market they are close to their customers AWS provides all the expertise around the cloud infrastructure insights on the roadmap and this is a key element elasticity both technical but also Financial and the then Accenture comes with its ability to deliver with the strong industry expertise flexibility and when you combine all these ingredients together obviously you understand it's easy to succeed together the power of three it sounds quite compelling it sounds like a very partnership that has a lot of flexibility elasticity as you mentioned and obviously the customer at the end of the day benefits tremendously from that Kristoff I'd like to bring you back into the conversation talk to us about the unified unified platform approach how is walk us through how Vodafone is implementing it with AWS and with Accenture so the applications that form the basis for the transformation program were originally pursuing all kinds of approaches for deployment and use of AWS services in order to support faster adoption and optimize the usage that I mentioned before and we have provided the Vodafone Cloud framework that has been The Trusted platform for several projects within the it in Germany as a side effect the framework facilitates the compliance with Vodafone security requirements and the unified approach also has the benefit that someone who is moving from one team to another will find a structure that looks familiar the best part of the framework though is the operative rights deployment process that helps us reducing the time from implementing for example a new stage from a few weeks to me hours and that together with improvements of the cicd pipeline greatly helped us reducing the time to speed up something and deploy the software on it in order to reach our Target kpis the unified platform provides all kinds of setups like AWS eks and the ecosystem that is commonly used with coping dentists like service mesh monitoring logging and tracing but it can also be used for non-continental erased applications that we have and provide the integration with security monitoring and other tools at the moment we are in contact with other markets of Vodafone to globally share our experience in our code which makes introducing a similar system into other markets straightforward we are also continuously improving our approach and the completely new version of the framework is currently being introduced into the program Germany is doing is really kind of setting the stage as you mentioned Christopher other parts of the business who want to learn from so that's a great thing there that that what you're building is really going to spread throughout the organization and make a positive impact Philip let's bring you into the conversation now let's talk about how you're using AWS specifically to build the new Vodafone Cloud integration platform talk to us about that as part of this overall transformation program sure and let's make it even more specific let's talk API management so looking at the program and from a technology point of view what it really is it is a bold step for Vodafone it's rebuilding huge parts of the infrastructure of their business ID infrastructure on AWS it's Greenfield it's new it's a bold step I would say and then if you put the perspective of API management or integration architecture what I call it it's a unique opportunity at the same time so what it what it gives you is the the opportunity to build the API management layer or an API platform with standardized apis right from the get-go so from the beginning you can build the API platform on top which is in contrast what we see throughout the industry where we see huge problems at our clients at other engagements that try to build these layers as well but they're building them on Legacy so that really makes it unique here for Vodafone and a unique opportunity to we have this API first platform built as part of the transformation program so what we have been built is exactly this platform and as of today there is more than 50 standardized apis throughout the application landscape already available to give you a few examples there is an API where I can change customer data for instance I can change the payment method of a customer straight from an API or I can reboot a customer equipment right from it from an API to fix a network issue other than that of course I can submit an order to order one of vodafone's gigabit internet offerings so on top of the platform there's a developer portal which gives me the option to explore all of the apis yeah in a convenient way in a portal and that's yeah that's developer experience meaning I can log into this portal look through the apis understand what I what I need and just try it out directly from the portal I see the response of an API live in the portal and this is it is really in contrast to what what we've seen before where you would have a long word document a cumbersome spreadsheet a long lasting process to get your hands on and this really gives you the opportunity to just go in try out an API and see how it works so it's really developer experience and a big step forward here then yeah how have we built this platform of course it's running on AWS it's Cloud native it's using eks but what I want to point out here is three principles that that we applied where the first one is of course the cloud native principle meaning we using AKs we are using containers we have infrastructure scales so we aim for every component being Cloud native being meant to be run in the cloud so our infrastructure will sleep at night to save Vodafone cost and it will wake up for the Christmas business where Vodafone intends to do the biggest business and scale of its platform second there is the uh the aim for open API specifications what we aim for is event non-vendor-specific apis so it should not matter whether there's an mdocs backend there's a net tracker back end or an sap Behind These apis it is really meant to decouple the different Business Systems of of a Vodafone by these apis that can be applied by a new custom front-end or by a new business to business application to integrate these apis last but not least there's the automate everything so there's infrastructure as code all around our platform where where I would say the biggest magic of cloud is if we were to lose our production environment lose all apis today it will take us just a few minutes to get everything back and whatever everything I mean redeploy the platform redeploy all apis all services do the configuration again and it will be back in a few minutes that's impressive as downtime is so costly for so many different reasons I think we're gonna know when the vision of this transformation project when it's been achieved how are you going to know that okay so it's kind of flipping the perspective a bit uh maybe uh when I joined Vodafone in in late 2019 I would say the vision for Vodafone was already set and it was really well well put out there it was lived in in the organization it was for Vodafone to become a digital company to become a digital service provider to to get the engineering culture into the company and I would say this Vision has not changed until today maybe now call it a North star and maybe pointing out two big Milestones that have been achieved with this transformation program so we've talked about the safe framework already so with this program we wrote out the one of the biggest safe implementations in the industry which is a big step for Vodafone in its agile Journey as of today there's the safe framework supporting more than 1 000 FTE or 1000 colleagues working and providing value in the transformation program second example or second big milestone was the first go-life of the program so moving stuff to production really proving it works showcasing to the business that it it is actually working there is actually a value provided or constant value provided with a platform and then of course you're asking for next steps right uh talking next steps there is a renewed focus on value and A Renewed focus on value between Accenture and Vodafone means focus on what really provides the most value to Vodafone and I would like to point out two things here the first being migrate more customers scale the platform really prove the the the the the cloud native platform by migrating more customers to it and then second it enables you to decommission the Legacy Stacks decommissioning Legacy Stacks is why we are doing it right so it's migrating to the new migrating to the new platform so last but not least maybe you can hear it we will continue this journey together with with Vodafone to become a digital company or to say that their own words from Telco to TECO I love that from Telco to technology gentlemen thank you so much for joining us on thecube today talking about the power of three Accenture AWS Vodafone how you're really enabling Vodafone to transform into that digital technology company that consumers at the end of the day that demanding consumers want we appreciate your insights and your time thank you so much thank you for having us my pleasure for my guests I'm Lisa Martin you're watching thecube's coverage of the AWS executive Summit AT AWS re invent sponsored by Accenture thanks for watching

(upbeat music) >> Hello, and welcome to today's session of the AWS Global Public Sector Partner Awards. I'm delighted to introduce our next guests to highlight the award for Best Partner Transformation, Best Telco Solution, and of course, I'm your host Natalie Erlich for theCUBE. We are now joined by Avishai Sharlin Division President at Amdocs Technology, and Ralf Hellenbran, Program Director of Technology at Vodafone Germany. Thank you, gentlemen, for joining the program. >> Thank you for having us. >> Our pleasure. >> Let's have the opening question for both of you. You know, but let's first start with Avishai. What has been the highlight to date in the journey of both Amdocs and Vodafone? >> Well, it's a good question. I believe that the highlight was the teaming and getting things done together as partners. Unlike many previous experiences, this time, we understood that success equals us working hand in hand together, making sure that we overcome and achieve everything as true partners. So the greatest obstacles and also the biggest achievement were done together as one team. We always speak about the hurdles, we negotiate sometimes. But eventually, we're coming to the solution together, and making sure that everything is properly managed and properly done in the right timing, and according to plans. >> Terrific, well, Ralf, let's go to you. What do you see as the highlights of this collaboration. >> Now exactly what Avishai said, but let me add to that. What we are following is a real collaborative approach. Now, there's a lot of strengths in that approach. Because we are using for example, swarm intelligence, we are using elements, which you see in clouds attempts as well, for example, yeah, but you see it in agile attempts and agile working methods. And this is what we applied. And as Avishai said, we are doing that as real partners in the program. And we are pulling a lot of strengths out of that by detecting problems early, we have a high level of transparency, we put everything on the table, and differences that we do not fight about the problems. We work collaborative on the solution. And that's really kind of new to the industry we are working in. And that's kind of game changing for it. At the beginning, we said it will be game changing if it works. Now we see that it does. >> Terrific. Well, why do you think generally speaking, that the Telco industry has been so slow, to you know, embrace these kinds of innovations? Let's start with Avishai. >> Yeah. It's less about I think the actual technology, it's more about a handful of parameters that need to be aligned, once you are trying to address these big transformations. You need to upskill a lot of people, you need to educate your manpower, to new technologies and new ways and processes, how to embrace DevOps, how to work in a cloud environment, how to embrace an agile, safe methodology. So there are many small pockets of things that needs to be changed. Not a single element, actually is the same as like five years ago. So in a way, if the organization as a whole, is not being transformed, it's very tough to embrace all those new technologies and succeed in such a journey. So for us, and I think also to our partners in Vodafone, it was a mutual understanding that we need to not just work together, but also tackle the new technologies and methods and processes all together and change the entire organization and ecosystem in order to succeed. In many other cases in the industry, we see that some pockets are not being changed. And then even if the technology is right, you're missing the upscaling of people, if you upskill the people and you forgot the technology, and so on so forth. >> Perfect now, Ralf, I'd love for you to respond to that question as well. >> So the Telco industry is a quite complex industry, that you look to the product it seems to be quite easy. You pick up a phone and you do a phone call or you go to the internet and so on and so forth. But if you think of all the services, which you're using via your smartphone, for example, yeah, it's far away from just doing a phone call. So at the same time where the Telco industry is producing and selling products, it's producing and selling services. At the same time, while you're using it for leisure, you're also using it for emergency calls. So there's a high level of safety, which we need to bring, and we need to pair it with a lot of innovation elements, right, both together. Now, if you take all this and you think of the complexity, it's not easy to introduce new methods and new ways of working, etc, to such an industry, again you need to take two things into account, you need to make it very safe and stable and educated and controlled. And at the same time, you need to be very fast, because it's a fast moving industry. And both together explains how we adopt it and why sometimes we are a bit slower than others, because the trial and error, yeah, it's not that easy, because the error cannot be allowed in big scale. The more I'm happy that in the approach we're taking together with Amdocs and also AWS, we can apply these new methods while keeping the safety and stability. >> Terrific, well, thank you for outlining that safety methodology. Avishai, I'd like to move this back to you. How are you redefining this operation through DevOps and automation? >> Oh, that's an interesting question. I think that automation, needs to be baked into almost everything that we're doing in such a transformation. It's not from the basic technology stuff, but it goes into all the processes, the way you develop, the way you test. The way you deploy, the way later on, you're making sure that everything run in the right way. So automation is key fundamental element in the end to end journey of such a big transformation, especially if you're going into agile development, and you need to fail fast, react fast, change fast, and then continue onwards with a new solution. So first, as you rightfully said, it's automation. And DevOps is also key over here, because you need to make sure that what you develop is also something that you deploy in the right way. So you need to put in place all the right mechanism, such as (indistinct), and the cloud frameworks, and the relevant different technologies that are adhering into this end to end solution. >> Perfect, now, Ralf, what are your thoughts? How are you redefining the operation now through DevOps and automation? >> We are trying to solve the paradox. Again, the paradox is we want to have things very stable, that would dictate us to do very detailed plans and to adhere to it and so on this is what we did in the past, it fostered for example, taylorism, and similar things. Now, we want to go a step further, we want to apply agile methods, we want to dismantle the taylorism. And the techniques around DevOps, cloud operation, etc, agile methods help us to do that. Now, while we are transforming our way of working, we don't want to lose the good elements of what we have been doing before, we want to do a step forward and not at the same time step back. And therefore we are combining things. And automation, for example, is one way to do that. DevOps is another way to do that. We are joining the good thinking of operations and the good thinking of development together, and we are pulling additional strengths out of that, while not taking into account or taking on board the weaknesses of the former approach. So it's a stepwise transformation we are following. Automation helps us to focus on the real problems, and not on the things you can automate by technology. >> Terrific. Well, now Avishai, bringing this back to you, Ralf talks about agility and also DevOps, explain the journey today on such a large program. >> The the journey, in what sense? Can you give me some coloring? >> Yeah tell us about this collaboration and keeping that in mind, keeping in mind agility as well as DevOps. You know, the step by step process in developing such a large collaborative program. >> Thank you for clarification. So I think that the journey as a whole had several components, (indistinct) and myself also the beginning about the nature of being true partners here. But it is also about establishing something very new in the industry. Many of the things that we're working are, you know, the first time that we're doing agile manner of developing software and testing, it's so fast, it's the first time we're implementing the latest and greatest DevOps technologies. The first time, we're adhering into new standards and way and behavior from a modernized technology organization. So in a way, this journey is all about a mixture of innovation, new stuff, on one hand, aligned with a very, very tight in a good way, I would call it German engineering, in the sense of making sure the things are in place and making sure that the processes are well defined. And we're seeing at any given point, the different status we're in, what needs to be improved, what is going well, and what future lies ahead. >> Staying with that topic on the journey opening to both of you, and perhaps Ralf would like to jump in here, first, how have AWS technologies been featured as part of this journey. >> AWS has been chosen wisely by us because of its technology components brought to the table. Now, without now pointing to a particular service, which we are using, we talked about automation, we talked about DevOps, now everyone can itself about how AWS in general helps to foster that, the sheer fact that we can merge the different way of working with a different mindset of people working in our collaboration and technology components coming not only, but also from AWS, this is ensuring our success. If you would pull out one of these elements, yeah, out of the equation, that most probably it would not work. I have problems to rate which element is more important, they are all part of the puzzle and otherwise, you will not see the picture and create the picture. So in a nutshell, we are utilizing the AWS technologies in order to allow the speed of development, lots of first times which we have in our collaboration, and the AWS technologies are an essential part of that. >> Terrific and Avishai, what are your thoughts on that? >> I think that the collaboration with AWS goes in several, in a way different shapes and form. On the technology, pure technology level, we're utilizing native EKS, we're moving with the managed Kubernetes. We're using, you know the latest technology in databases, and many other very, very cool technologies coming from AWS. And on a different level, completely different level, I think that AWS understands the behavior of complex enterprise and are assisting us with programs, looking into well architected framework and how to work in a managed environment and what are the technologies that we need to utilize. And also in, from an Amdocs perspective, something that assisted us a lot in this journey, we have a unique technology which defines an end to end solution to development within a micro service cloud native environment, we'll call it M360. AWS assisted a lot in making this a mature technology and allowing us to develop faster and fully utilize the benefits of cloud native environments. >> Terrific, now to both of you, what do you see as the next step in your collaboration together? Let's bring this to Ralf. >> There is no distinct next step. And maybe this is the consequence of the way of working we have established. There are many small steps we will pursue and most probably, if you want to know, which are the next steps, you need to talk to our teams. This is another aspect of this new way of working, which we apply. The people working in that approach, they tell us how they construct, how they structure this approach. If I would summarize it, we are constantly tearing down the walls between the companies, between silos, between departments working in that collaboration, and we are getting more close together every day. And solving problems quicker, we are getting them quicker on the table, we are getting them quicker, and softer, faster, soft, and AWS, Amdocs are part of this. And this is really nice to see and be part of, that this is really happening. So the next step is, foster the collaboration. >> Avishai do you have any thoughts? >> Yeah, on a personal level, I think the next step would be to glide together in Europe. But on a more serious note, I think that this is becoming like a true partnership. And I think that I see a lot of empowerment coming from both sides, allowing the team to develop together, to think together and to start to create new stuff, that even if you plan ahead, you will never achieve without true collaboration. So this empowerment, the fact that the teams feel that they can do things on their own, and make one and one equals three, two, or you know, or seven, is the big change that I see in front of us. And I really feel it in the air. And I also feel it in in the way we act and we move forward. >> Yeah, so Ralf, how do you see that this program will enable continuous innovation? >> Oh, it does already. So if you're looking to big transformation programs of the past, (indistinct) beside the fact that lots of them actually did not achieve what they are, what they were asked to achieve. Usually big programs, do big plans, and then you have a very long period of preparation. And then usually you have a rather big bank or life and then everything shall be fun. That sometimes work but not most times, it's difficult. Now within our program, we are doing that in collaboration, but step by step by step. And it's more an evolution than a revolution, which we are doing. At least in the way we deploy things, again, we are back to DevOps, continuous integration, continuous deployment and so on all these elements, which you can see in these approaches. And this is where the wheel spinning slice. So it's evolving step by step. And it's bringing benefits step by steps. So the benefits are already in place into to a certain extent, and they're constantly growing. >> Terrific, Avishai, what are your thoughts? How do you see the innovation of being able to continue and even further? >> In a way we're in a world that everything is in continuum, so it's continuous delivery, and continuous development and also continuous innovation. As long as you know, the ecosystem of ours continues to innovate as a whole, we are part of it. And inevitably, we are part of the larger ecosystem on one hand, and also players within it on a smaller scale in this project and as organization. So I think innovation is baked into everything we're doing today. Sometime it's small incremental steps, sometimes it's big, innovative moves, but all in all, it's something that is currently part of our DNA. >> And how is this system helping you both you know, be more proactive? Either one of you who would like to go first? >> No, I started first. >> Avishai? Okay. So, we are data driven, we are way more data driven. And by knowing exactly what is happening, we can be faster, we can be more innovative, we can be more productive. So, in cases where we either discover a problem or we discovering opportunity, we are much faster in analyzing whether it's really one, how should we redirect on that? How can we solve it or utilize it? And that's really working well. >> Perfect. And, you know, Avishai, feel free to join in on that too. >> In the digitized economy, I think that productivity comes a lot from the business side. If there is something that completely changed lately is the fact that business people are driving many, many changes on one end, and technology is here to adhere on one end and flexible to to move forward. So many of the productive concepts are coming from non technology savvy people, and the ability of what we're doing together to adjust and support different business behaviors and business models, and also, you know, business initiatives is thought of as being productive and being able to adapt into the digitalized economy. >> Let me join in on that one, what Avishai said, Let's think of a business person who wants to change something, and you don't know whether it's a white way as a corporation. Now you bring in the technology bits and pieces from different angles, and all of a sudden, you can combine it with a data driven approach, then, you know much better how to react on this business demand and how to bring it to life by using technology. Yeah, that might be a very high level of example of what we're doing here. Again, collaboration, get it done together with is the theme of that, technology is a very important part of that, paired with the business. >> Yeah, we talked on some very broad terms like themes, collaboration, innovation, I just want to focus a bit now on automation. Why do you think it is so critical to the vision of this program, Avishai. >> First of all, because it ends with ation, and everything that has this, but what I think that we started with this, automation is fundamental to everything that needs to be nimble, everything that needs to be fast. You cannot do it manually. And if you want to react either to a business demand or to a data driven decision, analytic decision, if you want to adopt new technology, if you want to test a new business scenario or technology scenario, you need automation to be part, inevitable part of everything that you're doing. So automation is a key element in everything that we're doing. And it's critical part of also the way to look into the future and to make sure that everything is working the right way. >> Perfect Ralf, any quick thoughts on that? >> Actually, nothing, nothing to add. >> All right, terrific. Well, it's been so wonderful to have you on the program. I know people are coming in from all over the world to join us. Really fantastic opportunity to highlight this important innovation in the Telco sector. Glad to have you here. Ralf Hellenbran, Program Director of Technology at Vodafone Germany, as well as Avishai Sharlin, the Division President at Amdocs Technology. we're highlighting the award that they won as part of the AWS, Global Public Sector Partner Awards. So great to have you on the show. And I'm your host Natalie Erlich, do stay tuned for more coverage. (upbeat music)