(upbeat music) >> From around the globe, it's the CUBE. With digital coverage of AWS reinvent 2020 sponsored by Intel, AWS and our community partners. Hello, and welcome back to the CUBE's coverage. Virtual coverage of AWS reinvent 2020. It's three weeks we're going on, we're on the ground here in Palo Alto. Doing the remote CUBE, CUBE virtual. We are virtual CUBE here. Wall-to-wall coverage over the three weeks. Got a great segment here, Steven Long regional CTO for AppDynamics and Ron Teeter chief architect with Jobvite. Gentlemen, thank you for joining me on the segment. Appreciate it. Thanks for coming on the CUBE Virtual. >> Thanks for having us. >> Great to be here. >> I wish we were in person. Normally we are, but with the pandemic, it's hard. Steven at AppDynamics. I want to ask you, you've got a customer here. We're going to dig into the use cases of the transformation journey, multiple wave transformation which I'm excited to talk about. But talk about AppDynamics. What's the big story for you guys at re:Invent, quickly get 10 seconds to explain. >> Yeah, sure. AppDynamics is the number one world's leading APM vendor and we're there to be the full stack observability platform. And in that we're talking today about our deep code insights, really to gain that visibility into production, securely capture data and really get that context through a dynamic application. So that you can find the problem and fix it right the first time. >> Great. Thanks. Thanks for that insight. Ron, I want to get into you're the chief architect which means you get the keys to the kingdom at Jobvite. You got to look over the landscape. You got to have the 20 mile stare out to the future but you also got to deal with the reality present here. And it's a tough one. When you go back, this is a terrible year a lot of weirdness, a lot of craziness but everyone's hurting, but they're retooling or they have a tailwind behind their back. So they're either accelerating faster or they're retooling. What does transformation mean to you these days? >> Yeah, so for Jobvite we had a distributed workforce prior to the pandemic shutdown. And what it did for us is it actually forced us to go all in on why can't we work remote all the time? Why do we care where we have facilities? And so we've gotten really good at scaling our organization and being productive remote. Now we actually can hire anywhere we want to, right? And that gives us more leverage and opportunities to scale our DMS going into '21. >> Awesome. Now from a technology standpoint, I'm hearing a couple of different stories, there's two extremes is the... I'll say airlines or those kinds of markets where there's not a lot of business happening, but they're retooling. And then you got obviously video or anything virtual modern applications. It's a surge in business so you have to move faster. Speed is critical. How do you retool in an environment where you've got remote which is totally productive, get that. But now I got more teams. I got to coordinate, I got to communicate. I got to make decisions, architectural decisions. They're big ones. And cloud certainly is here. You've got hybrid and you got the edge big themes this week. How do you look at that? >> The way we look at it, Jobvite has the longevity to remember what it was like from 2008 to 2013. we took that economic recession to build two additional products and launch them into the market in 2013 so that we could ride that wave of growth to drive our business objectives. And we're doing the same thing now. Hiring is a fluid market and this year hiring was way down, right? We saw a 60% drop in open requisitions on our platform alone. And you could see it just dive in March but it started coming back in August and September. And so at this point, we're now post pandemic. So the hiring rates right now are higher than they've been all year. They're very close to where they were last year for the same time. And we expect that to continue to climb as businesses continue to evaluate whether or not it's safe to scale. For us, this lull means we've got an opportunity to make changes to our infrastructure, that aren't going to be disruptive to our customers. But also allow us to get out in front of that so that we can go into '21 with a very strong product focus by taking care of some of the technical debt now. That's exactly what we've been doing is investing in ourselves so that we can operate faster with more agility next year. >> That's worth calling out and mentioning. That's great insight. It really is. You got to come out of the pandemic with a growth strategy. I hear all the CXOs and CSOs in particular dealing with all the security uses but they've got to have the growth strategy. Steven, this is where I think the cloud speed scale the operating model of software networks compute. You're seeing that now get back into the swing of things. That's always been the holy trinity, if you will, of technology, network compute, and storage. Now it's got the cloud and you've got an operating model. We're back to kind of a groove swing here. How does AppDynamics and the Amazon all fit together into this kind of journey? >> Yeah, and if we really look at AppDynamics, we focus on that digital experience. And I think when the pandemic hit we saw 95% of customers that we surveyed in our agents of transformation COVID survey that their priorities shifted. And 95% of those said, within that shift the digital experience became front and center. And so when you're operating in the cloud and you want to have that full stack observability not just from the end user and not just from your application perspective but also from your business perspective. And in any given business the application is the north star of the business. So placing the emphasis on that AppDynamics and surfacing what's actually happening at eliminating blind spots during this pandemic where it's more important than ever to have the best digital experience because that's the brand loyalty really, is that digital experience. >> Ron, I want to ask you, you mentioned something earlier you were talking about how you seized on the opportunity to virtual at home and you retool. But also you mentioned some of the macro conditions in the market, jobs are down, the other on the backup on the upswing. But the geographic hiring is a huge deal. I can almost imagine that's kind of an unforeseen use case where, I mean, it's kind of like working at home. Yeah, X percentage of people be working at home. We plan for that in our disaster recovery or disruption management whatever they do, now 100% people work at home. Now, 100% people looking for jobs. You probably need to rethink the use case because when you have a platform, you've got to think, okay how do I serve my customers who might have a need to recruit from more geographical places? That's a coding thing. So how do you do that stuff? Take us through the mindset of what goes on in your world. >> Yeah, so one of the nice things about building Jobvite as a hiring platform and a sourcing engine is, we use it, right? We now need to solve the same kinds of problems internally that our customers are facing, right? And so we control the software, we understand the problem. And so it's just a matter of deciding these are the things that we're going to prioritize next. We saw a very active summer of social justice outrage, and a lot of that stems from the lack of diversity and inclusive in hiring. And we're already responding to that by delivering features into the product line to help our customers address that in their places. And the key to this is speed. I think you mentioned it and Steve's talked about it as well, right? The ability to move quickly, safely it's the grail that everybody's looking for. And you have to have the right partners to make that successful. >> So I got to ask you then, what are the main benefits you see as you've got working at AppDynamics obviously you're a good customer there. As we're talking through it, you've got a great environment. You're a leader, and how to take advantage of these opportunities and code and shift. What's the benefits of AppDynamics in that equation? >> The key there that we see with AppDynamic's Cisco is the scale and the amount of innovation that they can drive through their product line. One of the things that Steve and I were talking about earlier this year during their transform event, was this deep code insights component which is really production runtime debugging. So imagine I can knock out my meantime to repair, my zero trust and my accelerated solutions of early detection in one solution, right? I can take something that would normally take hours, if not days, into minutes to resolve. The impact on an organization of just one simple feature like that is tremendous when people understand what it can do for them. And it's been invaluable for us. >> Well, you got the speed and the scale with the cloud. So take me through that impact. Because one of the things that's being discussed heavily here at re:Invent and in the industry is the new normal and the new realities we're living in, post pandemic as well. What's going to come out of it. And that is the expectations of the users and is going to drive the new experiences. That's kind of the theme. So the question is whether that's developers or end users or consumers or business users. That's huge, for applications to know what the user experience may be because we don't know what they expect and you don't have the right security (laughs). It kind of all crashes. So what's your... I mean you're nodding your head, weigh in, please. >> Yeah, so I heard a comment earlier from one of my peers in the industry, that is basically saying that nine months ago he had 400 facilities and now he has 18,000. Trying to imagine securing that environment For us, the way we think about it is, work is where you're at. And so we solve the access problems and the tooling problems a long time ago for Jobvite. But we'd been doing for our customers is delivering mobile recruiting solutions. So imagine I don't even need my desktop to complete the hiring process. I can work through the negotiations with a recruiter. I can talk to the candidate, I can text them. One of the big things that we released in early access last month was our new intelligent messaging platform. So that recruiters and hiring managers can have a much more rich conversation with candidates on the mobile device where the candidate is, right? And that's how we're trying to bring this new reality to the marketplace and say, "I can't assume that somebody has a browser and an email client anymore," right? Texting-- >> I mean that's a huge point. I mean, the joke Steven is, it's just distributed computing again 'cause there's really no cloud, there's no... If you think about the edge it's everything is the operating environment. Edge is the data center, edge is the cloud, edge is someone else's place. So if you're thinking about what Ron just said, 18,000 facilities, their homes or wherever, everything has to be looked, that's distributed computing we've been there before, right? I mean. >> Yeah and I think the way Ron, I think describes it, is highly accurate in his company, obviously, but in many companies where, if you've got those 18,000 end points in distributed computing you need to be able to gain visibility into production. And production could be a piece of code living anywhere. And if you can gain that and do that in a secure way which what we do AppDynamics, with our deep code insights, then you can look at data on demand and you can begin to understand the context of what's happening for that end user experience. And you can line up a watch point to watch the code that's executing. And then if it's not working you can actually see how it's not working, recreate that and actually fix it right the first time because you can actually see the code and production in the cloud in this distributed environment. And really be it's more powerful way to operate to reduce time when something happens that you need to fix. >> I was talking to a friend yesterday about this. We weren't on camera. I wish the cameras were rolling. But I'd love to get you guys' reaction to this, because we were saying... I remember when I broke into the business as a young CS major in the late '80s. We had to install everything by hand the software, you install stuff on a server. Or had stuff on a machine and then you put it on a server, you put it in a data center, all those things, right? The young kids then come in and saying, "Okay, I just use the cloud." The next generation and they never installed anything. They don't even know what an installation pack is. Now the next generation's not going to have versions. So you start to get into this notion of evolution with software, because if it's software operated you don't know what version you're running. It shouldn't be disruptive. And the point is this is where I think you guys are getting to here is, the holy grail is there's no disruption. You're running your software at home. Your reaction to that kind of evolution. >> Yeah, you want to take that Steve first? >> Yeah, sure. I mean, it's like you said, the way that code has gone to be delivered and executed is it explodes and disappears. And if there is no way to track that and trace that and understand it, the generation we're in of code, that's a femoral. What's it going to be next? And where's it going to go? And will it ever live anywhere that's alive? The technologies are really being pushed and that's the exciting part. And that's why from an AppDynamics perspective, we're investing in open telemetry is distributed tracing. So as you got distributed computing, we do distributed tracing. And we really look at the problem and provide solutions for our customers. >> Awesome. Ron, your time. I mean, observability, if you can't observe it, you can't measure it. You don't understand, it opens up a lot of things. You got to have the observation space and that's everything. It's hard. >> Yeah. Yeah. And especially as we transition from visual physical servers to virtual hosts, to virtual processes, to virtual functions, right? At some point it's the, I don't even know how to measure capacity for a function in the cloud, right? Let alone try to understand well, what's the cost going to be before I actually deploy it and measure what it's going to cost, right? So these are some of the areas where I think a lot of companies are struggling in understanding how do I move something I'm traditionally very comfortable with. This, I know how much a host costs and I can put my software on there and I can run the CPU at 100% and then I know what I'm getting. But as you start moving into virtual processes and virtual functions, it makes it so much more difficult to think about how you do that capacity planning and budgeting exercise in advance. One of the things that we do with observability is we can test it and we can measure it. And then based on that measure we can make predictions about, okay, this is what it looks like in Def, let's extrapolate what that looks like in production, just by scaling the load. And in areas where you've taken IO and network out of the equation that kind of extrapolation works very well. >> That's awesome. Congratulations on a great a use case, Ron. Thanks for sharing your story, Steven. >> Of course. >> Thanks for coming along and highlighting this great use case and congratulations on having a killer product with observability of AppDynamics. We've been following your work as a company and now at Cisco. So yeah, it's killer software. >> Thanks. Modern software is upon us again the next levels here, gentlemen, thank you for your time. Appreciate the insight >> It been a pleasure. >> Welcome. Thank you for the opportunity. >> Okay, This is the CUBE's virtual covers. We are the CUBE virtual. This is what we do now. We're not in person, but we're remote. When we get back to real life, we'll be back on the scene. We're still doing the interviews. Thanks for watching re:Invent coverage 2020 virtual. (soft music)