>> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE covering AWS re:Invent 2018, brought to you by Amazon Web Services, Intel, and their ecosystem partners. (techy music) >> Hey, welcome back, everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCUBE, we're at AWS re:Invent 2018 in Las Vegas, day two of four days of coverage. I think we'll do 120 interviews. I mean, this is the most poppin' show in tech right now. We're really excited to be here, and joined by my cohost, Lauren Cooney. Lauren, great to see you. >> Thank you. Great to see you, too. >> And we've got... (chuckling) We've got our next guest, it's Disha Chopra, she's a senior manager, product line manager for Juniper Networks, welcome. >> Thank you, feels great to be here. >> Good. >> So, what do you think of this show, have you been to re:Invent before? >> Oh, my God, no, this is my first one, and I am so excited. The energy is so great, it's vibrant, I'm learning a lot, I'm very happy to be here. >> So, Juniper's been around for a long time, way predating this cloud, this whole cloud thing, so what are you guys up to, what's the latest, and really, why are you here at re:Invent? What's your story with AWS? >> Yeah, absolutely. So, I think the latest thing with us is as early as today there was... We were posted on the AWS partner solution website. Vodafone is partnering with Juniper for their SD-WAN offering with, you know, the SD-WAN controller that's sitting in AWS, managing all their branch offices, so that's what's the newest with us, and you know, we've been making waves with a lot of partnerships recently. Couple of months ago, or maybe just a month ago, we announced with Nutanix, so that announcement was focused more for our enterprise customers. Integration with Nutanix is a hyperconverged infrastructure where Juniper will be, you know, integral part of their networking, providing for their converged infrastructure, and then before that, I think a few months ago we had Red Hat. We announced a partnership with Red Hat, and you know, that's focused on our telco cloud. So, as you were mentioning, Juniper's been around for a long time-- >> Right. >> And you know, telco clouds are our strong suite. Telcos, now telco cloud, right, and similarly for enterprise. If you think about it, you know, large enterprises and telcos, they're not that different, right? So, that's where we were at, and that's more kind of... We're following the evolution like our customers are, right? They used to be telco, now they're telco cloud. Juniper, I think the newest thing with Juniper, to be honest, in technology I spoke about partnerships, but it's our cloud-first strategy. That's what we have in mind. We are evolving with our customers, helping them in their journey for cloud adoption, cloud migration, right? It's a couple of sentences to say that, "Oh, we're helping our customers with cloud migration," but we're, you know, there's so many steps in between. They are very complex, you need a lot of handholding, and we're right there for our customers. >> So, what does that actually mean when you are, you know, saying that you're helping your customers? Are you working with them to bring them multicloud solutions from AWS and Microsoft and Google, or you know-- >> Correct, exactly. >> Can you give me a scenario or a use case? >> Yeah, absolutely, so like I was saying, traditionally, Juniper was, you know, a hardware-focused company, so our existing customer base, they bought a lot of big, heavy boxes from us, and of course, on top of it came a world class routing and switching software component, right, and it was all bundled up and sold together. Now, you know, they're moving towards the cloud, towards AWS, towards GCP, towards Azure. We want to be able to provide to them, and who better to provide this service to them. We understand their on-prem network. We understand cloud networking. We understand the transport in between. So, what we're doing is for our customers we manage their existing on-prem network, which you know, a lot of our customers, you know, they're huge and they have a significant amount of footprint, global footprint, right, so we understand that, we're able to connect them to the AWS, to the GCP, to the Azure, right, and the value proposition for them is that if they wanted to do it themselves they have to understand, you know, three different or five different clouds, right. You have IBM, you have DigitalOcean. There's a lot out there, right, and getting the opecs or getting the talent to be able to understand all these things and do the migration, it's hard, right? This is a complex problem to solve, so what Juniper brings to the table is we abstract it out. So, for example, I wanted to move-- >> Yeah, well I just want to say, you know, one of the things that you're talking about here, and this is a total switch, if I'm right, is are you becoming a managed service provider? >> We do have a managed service-- >> Because it sounds like you're going to be putting a lot more money into that side of the business-- >> Correct. >> Versus the straight-up product side of the business. >> Yeah, yeah, that's where we are pivoting from, you know, we want... Our perception used to be that we're a hardware company, now we're a cloud-first company. We're a software company, so we're definitely pivoting towards the, you know software-based solutions, software-based, you know, offerings. It's like your iPhone, right, or your phone. You buy the hardware but you're really buying it for the iOS or for the applications that run on it. Networking is following a similar paradigm now, right? The hardware boxes, they're definitely our bread and butter still, but it's the software now that's enabling and giving it all the cool factor and the innovation that's happening, it's all in the software. Contrail, that's our story for multicloud. That's one of our product offerings. So, what Contrail does is, and I think that's what I was kind of referring to earlier, it gives you that higher level of abstraction where you don't have to worry about: "Is my workload running in AWS? "Is my workload running in GCP?" It doesn't matter, right, you as a enterprise, or as a telco, we want you to focus on, you know, powering your applications, powering your services. We don't want you to worry about your infrastructure, that's our job, right? We want to completely hide all the complexity away from you, and just, you know, let you do what generates revenue. >> So, as an application developer, right, so I'm an application developer and I use Azure, for example, right-- >> Yeah. >> And that's kind of my platform, and I'm, you know, doing some interesting stuff with like, you know, some scripting, or I'm building, you know, just a general, like, new website or something like that with, you know, a couple different things. So, as a developer at that level, I don't even know about Contrail. >> Exactly, exactly. >> Exactly, but I don't think Contrail yet extends up to that layer where it can manage everything across multiple clouds. >> So, it provides you as a developer, like you said, you're writing an application, you don't care about the infrastructure. It's just there, right? >> Mm-hm. >> And we want to keep it that way. Contrail is there, Contrail is at that level. Contrail is going to provide the plumbing, so you as a developer, today everything, all developers are moving towards containers, right? So, for example, the Red Hat partnership that I brought up earlier, that's focused on the Red Hat OpenShift platform, their path service, which is a container-based service. Contrail integrates with Kubernetes, we integrate with Mesos, we integrate with Docker. So, as a developer, when you employ these tools to write your code, you know, using a CICD platform, Contrail is sitting right under it, giving you that connectivity. So, for example, when you're developing your application and (clearing throat) you know, you deploy it, you deploy part of it in Azure, you deploy part of it in AWS, right, and you don't care where it goes, you just-- >> Or you use one for, like, bursting or something like that. >> Exactly, yeah, yeah. >> You know, the rest of it on-prem. >> Correct, so-- >> That sort of thing. >> You know, it's distributed, right? So, who's going to plumb it and make sure that it's giving you the results that you need? That's where Contrail comes in. Gives you that plumbing between on-prem, between AWS. >> So, how is that different from Kubernetes as a whole? Like, I know that it's, you know, it does like container management, orchestration, deployment-- >> Correct. >> Delivery, how does-- >> Right. >> Contrail kind of come in and work with Kubernetes? >> Right. So, great question, by the way, you know your stuff, so (laughing) Kubernetes is... Kubernetes is orchestration for your workloads, right? It's services, Kubernetes provides a service, like it gives you a service web. You deploy a bunch of Kubernetes minions, they all work together to give you that application that you need. Now, what Contrail does is it provides the networking between those Kubernetes pods. So, let's say you want to scale up your application. Okay, you had 10 pods, now you want to go to 20. Kubernetes makes that decision for you that you need the 20 pods, and then Contrail is sitting under it giving you the networking for those 20 pods. So, when those 20 pods spin up, Kubernetes pokes Contrail and says, "Hey, 20 more, and these need to talk to "those 10 pods that were already there," right? >> So, Contrail is opensource, right? >> Correct. >> Why haven't you donated it yet to the CNCF? >> (chuckling) We are part of CNCF, we recently-- >> I know that. >> Yeah. >> But fundamentally, if you want that to be pulled as much as you do... >> Yeah. >> It's already opensource. >> Yeah, you're right. >> You might as well kind of get on that thread with the Kubernetes folks-- >> Right, yeah. >> And start talking to them about how you make it part of, you know, the core distribution that then goes into, you know, six different distro. >> Correct, correct, yeah. >> You know, something along those lines versus don't start your own distro. (chuckling) >> Sorry. >> Right, don't start your own distro, but look at how you can become integrated into that Kubernetes stream, the main stream. >> Correct, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, no, that is definitely something that, like you're saying, it's something that we, you know, we want to do, that's the direction that we want to go at, but I think the actual decision is maybe above my pay grade, so I don't (chuckling) want to make a commitment here. >> Fair enough. >> So, you know... (chuckling) >> Disha, I want to followup on a slightly different track. When you talk about cloud-first, and you answered the question, which is when you say cloud-first, is that, you know, kind of the way you're going to market with your customers, or is that the way you guys are looking at Juniper in terms of transforming the company? >> Mm-hm. >> And it sounds like you said it's more of the latter, really starting to reformulate Juniper-- >> Correct. >> As a cloud first service company. >> Exactly. >> So, how is that transformation going inside the company, that's a pretty significant-- >> It is, it is, yeah. >> Shift from selling boxes and maintenance agreements and-- >> Yeah. >> Shipping metal. >> Yeah, we are definitely modernizing from within, right, but a lot of it is driven by our customers. Like I was saying, you know, they are evolving, they want to connect to the cloud, and you know, we obviously want to help them do that. As part of that, we want to be microservices-based, right, because we want to be able to support containers. These are just things that, you know, we need to do. Juniper is a leader as far as, you know, innovation and networking is concerned. >> Right, right. >> So, it was never a question of if we want to do this, or if we want to go down this path or not, right, it's when, right? >> Right, right. >> And we are definitely working day in and day out to make that happen, so you know, a lot of our offerings, like recently we came out with our containerized SRX solution. SRX is our full-feature, full-service, next generation firewall, and we have containerized it, right. I believe it's the first offering of its kind, containerized, host-based firewall, so you know, innovative stuff happening all the time. Like you said, you know, it's definitely a Herculean task-- >> Right, right. >> But we're up for it-- >> Right. >> And we're doing it. >> And I'm just curious to when the customer conversations-- >> Yeah. >> You know, the hybrid cloud, multicloud, public cloud conversation, right, it's a lot of conversation. How do you take your customers down the path? Where do you see them, you know, trying to navigate in what's got to be a pretty complex world for-- >> It is, definitely. >> A CIO trying to figure out what they're supposed to buy and not buy, how to pay attention, can I hit all the booths-- >> Right, right, right, right. >> Here at AWS in three days, I don't think so. >> (laughing) I know, yeah, these conversations, to be honest, have been going for the past couple of years, right. A lot of our customers, the intent is there to move to the cloud, and you know, we are trying to help them with it, so you know, we design with them. We design their network, we design their topologies, we handhold them telling them how to do this, right, their existing networks that they have. The complexity comes in because everything, right, think of a company, right, a large company. It then goes ahead and acquires 10 more, and they all have their own networks, they all have their own environments, VMware, Red Hat, you know, Tabix, so different kinds of environments now all need to connect to the cloud. You don't want them to be siloed. You also don't want to deal with, you know, all those different kinds of, like I was saying, you know, skillset to be able to connect them all individually. So, when we talk to our customers, that's what we tell them, that you know, with a Juniper-based solution we have so many of them that work together in a cohesive way to give you that end-to-end connectivity. Secure, automated multicloud, that's our mantra, right, and it's as far as, you know, engineering is concerned, engineering simplicity. If you come down to Juniper it's plastered all over the walls, right, engineering simplicity. We were really driving that message internally so that... And a lot of the CICD stuff, right? The way we want our customers to use it is how we're using it, so that, you know, that improves our quality, that improves reliability, and all those things. So, in terms of handling our customers, we talk, you know, we're there on the table day one. We talk to them about their design. I see that a lot of our customers, currently where they're at is they are trying to connect to the cloud. They all want to move towards the container, you know, the containerized services. They know that's the right thing to do. They're not quite there yet, right? The intent is definitely there, they're playing with it, but in terms of being in production, we're still, you know, a little bit off. Not too much, but we'll get there soon, right. So, we talk to them, we talk about, you know, how they can make their applications cloud ready. There's a couple of ways to do it. You lift and shift, or you know, directly move, go cloud native. >> Right, right. >> So, we have all these discussions with them. You know, what fits their bill, right? What is good for them, what is it that's going to work for them? And then, you know, of course the connectivity piece, right, but with it security, reliability, and scale. Right, a company like Juniper obviously, you know, innovator in networking, we solve problems at a different level, right? >> Right, right. >> For our much larger customers. So, we talk to them about scale, we talk to them about, you know, reliable security is huge, right. You have a workload that you spun up on-prem, and then, now, you know, you have... Your requirements have changed, you're going to have to replicate it, say, in AWS. When you replicate it, you still want the same security that you had on-prem to apply to this workload, which is now going to be in AWS, how do you do that? It's easy with Contrail, right, because it's intent-driven. You specify the intent, in fact, you specified the intent when you brought up the first workload, and it captured it, "Okay, I'm supposed to talk to..." You know, say I'm workload red and I can only talk to other red workloads and I cannot talk to the blue workloads, something like that, right? >> Right, right. >> So, you specify the intent, and then when that red workload now comes up in AWS, it already knows that I wasn't supposed to talk to the green workload, so that policy and all the intent moves with that workload. >> Right, right. >> And this is all done through Contrail, right, and the other thing, that single pane of glass. I'm sure you've heard about it a lot today, right. The single pane of glass, you specify it one time. Again, the abstraction away from all those, you know, five clouds that you're working with, you specify the red workload, the policy for the red workload one time, and then it doesn't matter where you bring it up, Contrail will automatically apply it everywhere, and you know, it's good to go. >> That's great. >> Well, Disha, thanks for coming on, you certainly got the energy to attack this big problem, so... (laughing) Juniper's fortunate to have you. >> Great, thank you for having me. >> Thanks for coming on and sharing the story. >> It's been wonderful talking to you guys. >> All right, Disha, she's Lauren, I'm Jeff. You're watching theCUBE, we're at AWS re:Invent 2018. Come on down, we're in the main expo hall right by the center, thanks for watching. (techy music)

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE! Covering AWS re:Invent 2017. Presented by: AWS, Intel and our ecosystem of partners. (lively electronic music) >> Welcome back everyone, this is theCUBE special exclusive coverage of AWS re:Invent 2017. CUBE's our flagship program, we go out to the events and we extract the signal noise. I'm John Furrier your co-host. With me today is Justin Moore, an analyst. We have two sets here in Las Vegas. Our next guest is Sumeet Singh, Vice President of Cloud Analytics with Juniper Networks, formerly of AppFormix, which was bought about a year ago. CUBE alumni back. New team, Juniper, welcome back. Last time we chatted with you you were entrepreneurial. >> Yeah. >> Taking names, kicking ass, now you're-- >> Bought out Juniper Networks, yeah. >> You bought out Juniper Net, what's going on? >> So we've essentially been building, building more and more and it's actually been a totally awesome experience. So, Last year when we spoke, we were essentially looking at a whole lot of private cloud deployment. Looking at OpenStack, looking at (mumbles), looking at VMware, and since, what we've now started really expanding into is, of course, the multi-cloud and hybrid cloud scenario. And looking at how to secure these clouds on prem, in the cloud, multi-cloud, as well as bring rich analytics into real-time operations insight as to what's going on in all of these environments. And how to optimize them. >> Yeah, that whole multi-cloud hybrid cloud thing is really exploded in the last 12 months. I'm hearing from customers a lot more that they are pursuing a multi-cloud strategy, but it seems that there's just this proliferation of things that you've now got to monitor and secure. So, how are you helping customers to do that? >> So, I mean, you're going to start with the basics. Right? So, the first thing that we got to realize is there are, of course, those companies that are born in the cloud. But then, there's a whole bunch of others who have for long run their own data centers and run their application stacks on prem, who are now looking to migrate to the public cloud and build all that multi-cloud scenario. In that situation, I would say, you need a little bit of hand-holding. You need to understand how your application's running on prem, which ones can be moved to the cloud, how can they be moved to the cloud, you want to ensure that those policies that you were implementing on prem you'll be able to implement those same policies in the public cloud, as well. The monitoring really starts on prem. All of those policies that operation starts on prem, and then you take them and you build them and you >> I'll get your take on, we'll have to get your take too, Justin, on something that's going on that I see clear visibility on. Infrastructure operations, data center cloud, get your house in order, networks, migration, hybrid cloud, multi-cloud, and then all that stuff. Then you've got this developer tsunami going on, a renaissance of real new development, new kinds of development, multiple databases using in app, IoT, so, the software development methodologies are changing for developers. That's obvious. What's the impact to the infrastructure guys, because you're starting to see Lambda and Server List as a way for saying complete infrastructure is code. How does that change the notion of, what the hell the data center is? Because you could argue that's just an edge now. So, what's the software, what are some of the software practices you see that are notable? >> The ones truly amazing, like in all these things that you're saying, is that you no longer need to use one approach to build anything. Any product that we put out, or any service that you put out, now uses a combination of all of these things. It could be Lambda, it could be IoT, it could be a wholesale application that's office started using (mumbles), that's spanning that multi-cloud environment. So, it's the beauty of all of this is the power of choice. We have so much more choice available to us. Right? But then, when choices, with choice comes that explosion and that complexity. It's >> Complexity is key, but speed is also there. You see. So, the question is, at what point does the cream rise to the top, and the people that are slow get run over. >> We're just seeing another evolution in obstruction, really, it's like, we don't write an assembly code anymore. We're writing directly to the hardware. We added in high-level programming languages, and now, in terms of the infrastructure, developers don't care about infrastructure as much as people talk about dev ops, and the thing like dev ops is a thing, developers don't want to deal with the infrastructure. They want to deal with code, cuz that's where they live. And the infrastructure folks, well, a lot of them are actually becoming developers now. So, they're learning how to use tools like, using development tools to actually get their job done. Which is where we're seeing infrastructure is going. So, there's a lot more ob abstraction into pure software, so you don't have to worry about the underlying obstructions, at least, not very much. >> All right, Sumeet, question to you now on that is, that requires the network guys, Juniper, you're part of that, and all the analytics to think differently about what you're instrumenting. To do what he said, to make it free, you gotta enable a lot of policy, a lotta data analytics, take us through what's the current state of the art there. >> So, the current state of the art, is essentially, if you talk about Juniper products, we have our family of SRX products, where you can have on prem firewalls, as well as virtual firewalls in the cloud, and using these tools, you can have consistent policies on prem and in the cloud. You can free up transit VPCs. Then there are the obligations in the multi cloud world, and do all kinds of fancy things. But where we also going with our solutions is to make them much more simpler to consume. It's truly all about simplicity, right? Because now you have all this choice, and you can have Lambda, and you can have all these new ways to bring up your applications. What becomes key is that the policies that you wanna implement become automatic. Right? And the way to do that is, the way we are doing that is, essentially, doing this auto-learning of your environment. Right? Automatically understanding, Automation, right? But, not, automation in two parts, as in automatically detect what's going on, but then automatically apply the policies as well, no matter where the workload is and where it's scaling, we automatically apply the policies to it. >> So, it's a lot of investment in this mart of underly-- Making something simple is actually quite complex to do. So, you need to understand what are the right things to automate, and what are the few things where you actually wanna give humans that choice, without it becoming overwhelming, so that, okay, I have to choose between one of 800 different ways of doing this. That's just not something that humans cope well with, whereas machines are actually really good at that. >> And that's the value here. We want to hide all the complexity under the hood. You know, use those advanced logarithms, use, you know, where they be on prem or in the cloud, but running all the analysis, implementing all the right policies for you, right? And new, new workload comes up it should automatically get the policy, right? And we are now able to do that both in the private data center, as well as in the public cloud, and bridge those policies together for you, automatically. >> The common theme we're seeing in cloud, we had a guest on from Thorn, where they automate, essentially, police officers writing down notes in a notebook to fully spotting with machine learning and all this great stuff, to find missing and exploited children, manual sucks, basically. Manual's slow-- >> The workload's too dominant now for you to think about manual. >> I want real-time. So most organizations, what's going on there? How do you guys help there, what's the progress? >> Oh. So, this is actually a great question, by the way, so, and this is part of the reason why we like, as a company, as a start up, maybe, we're like, doing all this cool stuff, and, you know, not really thinking about all the, hey, this is slowing me down. The reason why we went to Juniper, if you look at the history of Juniper, and the product portfolio, and the stock at Juniper, when it comes to automation, when it comes to things like ABI, when it comes to things like policy, they've always kind of like led the pack in that networking space, and now this is the opportunity to take that that wealth of knowledge, and scale it out, and take it to a little bit broader multi-cloud, hybrid cloud space. But, that's truly where it is, and even if you, kind of like go down low level to the devices, all Juniper devices are able to stream real-time elements. We are able to do ML in real-time, even on the physical devices, right? Similar for all virtual devices, and now, with our Formix, we even bring in the performance and operations inside, from the running infrastructure, whether it's on prem and in the cloud, not just networking, but the compute, the databases, your applications, your clusters, all of that, to build for you this end-to-end view, right? Not just the networks, your servers, Vms, workloads, the underlying network, the connectivity, all of it. >> How does that, because the developers, they live in application land, and again, they don't really care about that infrastructure, but as it turns out, sometimes it's quite useful to know which particular network devices, or what the infrastructure is that underpins things, like where you sometimes need to be able to drop into assembly code to really optimize things, so are you making that information about the infrastructure visible to developers in a way that they like to, to know and consume? >> Absolutely, so, one key thing about, you know, our product portfolio, and how we are releasing our services, essentially, we've wrapped everything around, you know, these role-based access interfaces. Where both the operators are able to get their views, they're able to construct views that the developers are able to see, and then both can implement their own policies, right? If, let's say, there's some infrastructure that's down, or is unhealthy, then having that global topology view helps you in real-time totally, and in real-time informs you what the impact of that outage is. Like who are the developers who would be impacted, what are their obligations? And, you know, we can bring that insight, and consume it to run the automation. So, if, let's just say, some infrastructure's unhealthy, can you read off the graph? >> Sumeet, talk about what you guys are doing here. How's Amazon, big learning conference, but it's a massive show, 45,000 people here, across multiple hotels. A lot of sessions. What do you guys talk about? What's the big cloud piece for you guys? >> For us, really, first, it's just visibility, right? We have a product portfolio that gives you visibility. Like, both for your physical infrastructure, and your virtual structure. Then, the next thing is, of course, You know, yeah, you have the visibility. But then, at our scale, no human can consume all that information. It's too slow. It's too slow. So, you've gotta have the machine-learning built in. So, it's promoting that visibility into insights in real time, and then, it's about how do you secure your workloads? So, consuming all of that insight to implement all of the policies, implement all of the automation, to ensure that everything is running as you want it to. >> What's your Juniper message to the developers here? Is there a new face to Juniper, a new vibe? You mentioned Juniper's always had great products, like, you move packets around at lightning speeds, you know, wire speeds, all that great stuff. How do you, what's new? What's it mean for me as a developer, what is Juniper, how's it make my life easier? >> What's new is that now it's easier for developers to consume our products. Our products are now available in the Amazon marketplace, right? Our visibility products, our machine-learning products, our security products, right? You can just click, install, and start using them. That's new for Juniper, right? I mean, traditionally you would think of-- >> You probably get Juniper goodness just by treating it like a library. >> That's it. You can just download, not even download, right? You're -- >> It's server-less. It's router-less. It's device-less. >> There you go. You can just start consuming them. And then, if you do have that knowledge of how do you use those devices on prem, then you can apply that knowledge in the cloud, and then use them all. >> Must be computing back in, what, like 20 years ago. I mean, is it just like a grid now. >> Oh, yeah, pretty much, yeah. >> It's a fabric. >> It's the same, if you already know how to use it one place, you know how to use it everywhere. >> Yeah, but, I mean, it's, really, the value of the cloud is making it even simpler, right? Running all of that automation, like we talked about Lambda, like even within our products family, we can, we use Lambda to constantly see what's changing, and that's how we process lots of our internal transactions, as well. >> Sumeet, congratulations on your acquisition and your entrepreneurial journey, and now you're at Juniper. Looking forward to keeping in touch. Sumeet Singh, Vice President of Cloud Analytics, and now at Juniper Networks, formerly AppFormix, CUBE alumni, thanks for coming on and sharing your commentary. I'm John Furrier, and Justin Moore, here on theCUBE, main stage in Las Vegas at AMS re:Invent We'll be back with more after this short break. (lively electronic music)