>>Ply from Barcelona, Spain. It's the cube covering Cisco live 2020 route to you by Cisco and its ecosystem partners. >>Hi buddy. Welcome back to the queue, the leader in live tech coverage. My name is Dave Volante with cohost Humanum and John furriers. Here we go out to the events, we extract the signal from the noise and of course this is day one of Cisco live Barcelona. Very excited to have Presant Shanola. He's the vice president of marketing enterprise networks for IOT and the developer platform at Cisco for sounds good to see you. Good to see you folks too. So right now we're in the middle of the the DNA center takeover in the dev net zone network's getting more complex. You need a command center to understand what's going on. >>Yeah, give us the update Y DNA. Yeah. So this has been a journey for Cisco and for our customers for the last three years or so. Right. So a few things happened in the last decade, like mobile, IOT, cloud, and the world of security. All of those came together in one place. And if you look at it, these are very network centric technologies, right? There'd be no cloud without networking or mobile or IOT. So when our customers started investing heavily in the world of applications in the cloud environment, mobile and IOT, the network was slightly left behind. The network that they had created and built was meant for the internet era, not for this multicloud mobile and IOT era. So we had to rethink networking fundamentally from the ground up to how do you help our customers design, build, scale, manage and deploy networks for this new era of digital transformation driven by mobile and cloud. >>And that was the Genesis of our intent based networking strategy, right? So that was like three years back. Then we designed a networking architecture that focuses on the business intent and lets you figure out the how part of it. Then NATO figures it out. So the DNS center was the command center as Dave, you put it to help manage design and build this network from the ground up. And it's been a journey for us and it's been a very, very exciting journey for us where we are getting a lot of positive feedback from the customer, whether it's to deploy their access infrastructure, wired wireless are more into the wide area network extending into data center and public cloud environment. >>So when we went from internet to the cloud, yoga talks about the flattening of the network and now I know we're going to talk about it. >>Yeah, yeah. Are we going to need a new DNA center for that next wave or no, it's the pendulum swing, right? Like it's all this meaning interesting mainframes, centralized and decentralized edges. Then again, centralized in the cloud and now cloud moving to the edge. So this is always going to be an interesting phenomenon and it's mainly because the world around both sides of the networking has become highly hyper connected and highly dynamic, right? Like users are mobile devices are everywhere, applications are everywhere. A single application is split into 500 different pieces run in containers and microservices across four different public clouds and three different data centers, right? Like, how do you manage this dynamic environment? How do you set the policy? How do you guarantee an application experience? So this has been a very challenging environment. So the idea of DNS entry is to provide you that single command center, right? >>No matter whether you want to deploy it as a Wachtel service, a physical service in the cloud, in a hardware platform, doesn't matter. Right? So how do you get all of your data? How do you get a single place to provision the system? Well, I'm glad you've mentioned scale quite a few times talking about this for the longest time it was how do we get the network people to get off of their CLI and go to the gooey? Well, I don't care if you've got the best goo in the world, the, the hyper connectivity, the amount of changes going on, people can't do this alone. So talk to us a little bit about know tooling, the automation, the API APIs, connect all these things and make sure that our people don't become the bottleneck for innovation. >> Frankly, the complexity has exceeded human scale. It's just impossible. >>It's funny because I was talking to the CIO for a pretty large global bank. I can't tell the name who was saying like, Hey, a few years back I had one it person to manage around thousand devices, all the devices. Right? And then that year when I was talking, and this was 2016 he had one is to 10,000 device, one it for 10,000 devices to manage. And he said, I'm looking in 2020 to be one it for 250,000 devices going up to a million devices. I'm like, dude, you're doing some funky Matthew. It's like, that looks like that hockey stick curve. Right? And I'm like, he was right. Now I don't even know what's on my network, what's connected to my network. I have, I'm flying blind. And that opens up a lot of security issues. That opens up a lot of operational challenges. In fact, for every dollar our customer spends on cap X for buying the network, they spend $3 on opics managing the network, monitoring and troubleshooting the network. >>So that's the key point saying that you can hire a hundred more it staff, you're just not going to be able to manage the complexity. So there has to be an automation world, right? We live in a world where repetitive tasks should be done by machines and not human beings. It's happened and the rest of the lives and networks, operations is just one part of that. So the concept of controller led architectures, which was the Genesis of SDN is now being applied to this world of intern based networking. But we also get the data to provide you insight on how things are behaving and how to take actions before it happens. >> Well, yeah, you brought up, are you used to, how many devices the enterprise can manage was something we measured for the longest time and used to compare to the hyperscalers and I said, well, here's the myth there. >>It's not that they're managing two of magnitude more equipment. They architect completely different Zack. They build the applications with the expectation that everything underneath is going to change. It's going to fail, it's going to be upgraded. So you don't have somebody inside of Yahoo in Google and all these hyperscalers running around patching and updating things. They build a data center and they keep adding environments and they throw things in the woodchipper when they're done and they break things down. So it's a completely different mindset. And part of SDN was the promise of it was to take some of those hyperscaler methodologies and bring it to Massell enterprise. So tell us how your software today is delivering kind of that, that hyperscale architecture and that's a little bit of a culture change for the enterprise. It's been a huge culture change, right? Like the concept of like abstracting the underlay complexity of all the network physical connections and giving an oral a, what we call a fabric. >>So underlying network works as a single integrated system, right? It's not like switches, routers, controllers, access point. All of that complexity is taken out. So you're programming a single fabric, putting the right policy and the controller will figure out how do I enforce that policy in this switch, that place, this controller, this access point? Right? So that was the complexity the Netflix operators of yesteryears we're dealing with. Right? They had to go and configure Mitzi Elias and now API, since we are in dev net is the new CLI. Right? Like, and that becomes a culture shift for network operators. Like I've been in the networking space for like 20 years. I was born on CLI, right? Like, and even when I created systems like access control lists, QRS and I had to system test my own code is fricking nightmare. It is tough. It is tough to manage that as a single system. >>Right? And that's why the role of controller to abstract the complexity of a, to program the infrastructure and then expose this intelligence to other systems, whether it's it systems, but it's business applications goes a long way. So that's why this journey is really exciting for us. So it sounds like we're entering the era of self-driving networks that, I mean you've got to even visualize this virtually possible unless it's at that abstraction layer. Yeah, absolutely. I mean there are new technologies that a lot of consumer markets and other places I've used like machine learning right? Like we have so much data within the network, the network sees everything, right? Because the connection point from mobile IOT to applications and cloud, right? But we haven't really leveraged the power of the data and the intelligence, right? And now that we have all of the data and now we have things like machine learning, it can identify traffic patterns and provide you more insights around your business, around your it and security, right? >>So that really takes the guesswork away. And the good part is with machine learning, the more data you feed it, the more it's learning from the data, not just your own local networks but the net folks across the world. And that makes it constantly adapting to changing conditions and constantly learning based on the traffic patterns and your environment. And that's a pretty exciting field, right? Because we've implemented that in the security field to predict threats before they happen. We've implemented that in parts of application performance and now you're bringing it to the wall of networking at cost access branch ran and campus to like help it move from a reactive world to more of a proactive world. To a predictive world, right? So they can spend less time looking for the needle in a haystack and focus more on solving strategic >>problems. So when you get into discussions about machine intelligence, oftentimes there's discussions about Oh, replacing jobs and you know, blah blah blah. And so it'll, it'll turn to a discussion of augmented intelligence, which very reasonable thing, what you just described as removing mundane tasks. Nobody wants to do those anymore. Here's my question. You talked about your CLI experience over the last 20 years. Is that CLI sort of tribal knowledge still vital as part, you know, part of the art of networking or does the machine essentially >>take over and humans you'll go on to other things? Yeah, I think that's a great question Dave. Like I call these next generation of network operators, the unicorns. So you do need to have the tribal knowledge of networking, not necessarily CLI, but the concept of networking. How do these protocols work? Right? Like this is not easy. It's, there are very, very few network engineers compared to application developers and software engineers in the world. So this is always going to be critical. But now if you marry this knowledge and compliment this knowledge with programmability and automation and application, you got yourself a unicorn that is going to be very, very strategic to the business because now the world of infrastructure and applications are coming together so he can truly focus on your business, which is run on applications, right? How can you, our applications run Foster's mater better with the network and how can your network understand how the applications are behaving becomes a whole new world. So you seek a new roles of network practitioners emerging. I feel like the data scientist after network, like the security defender of the network, the wall of security ops and networks are coming together. So that's what is exciting for us because you get bored in your life if you're doing just repetitive tasks and not learning new. And this provides a new way of ruining. So for me it's not taking jobs away. It's like upgrading your skillset to a whole new level. That's a lot more, >>well this is the secret of Cisco still. We've talked about this. All these hundreds of thousands of network engineers with growth path, income develop. What >>I've found fascinating is really unlocking that data because for the last decade we've talked about, well there's the network flows and there's analytics in the network streams, but what had been missing and what I think is starting to be there, as you said, that connectivity between the application and the actual data for the business, it isn't just some arcane dark art of networking and we're making that run better, faster, better, cheaper. But it's what that enables for the business, the data and the applications that there is a tighter, relevant they are today. That's the key thing, right? I mean everybody has been talking about data now, I dunno for 1520 years. It's the new crude aisle if you will. Right? But everybody has access to data and nobody knows what to do with it, right? Like this philosophical thing of data to knowledge to wisdom is like what we are all striving towards. >>Right? And now that we have access to this data and we have this intelligence system, which is a multi software that ingest data from not just networking but devices connected to the network, the security trends that we are seeing, the application data that you're seeing and provides this context and provide two very key insights around how does that impact your business, how does that impact your ID? How does that impact your security is a very powerful thing. Um, and you don't find that and you need to have that breadth of portfolio and system to be able to get all of the data and consume that at a hyperscale level, if you will. We often say in the cubit that data is plentiful insights or not, and you need insights in order to be able to take action. And that's where automation comes in for shot. Great segment. Thank you very much for coming on the cube. Really appreciate it. Thank you today. Thanks to pleasure. Awesome. All right. Thank you for watching. This is the cube live from Barcelona, Cisco live 2020 Dave Volante for stupid event and John furrier, we'll be right back.