>> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE covering AWS re:Invent 2018 brought to you by Amazon Web Services, Intel and, their Ecosystem Partners. >> Okay, welcome back everyone. Day three, we're live in Las Vegas for AWS re:Invent 2018. It's our sixth year covering Amazon re:Invent and AWS, Amazon Web Services meteoric rise in value, profitability, market share, just a rising tide floating all boats. I'm here with Dave Vellante. We're kicking off day three analyzing, you know, Vernon's keynote. Things start to wind down. Yesterday was kind of the big day with Andy Jassy. Dave, after yesterday it's pretty clear that there's a couple big mega trends that people are talking about. One AWS Outpost, okay, that is going to be a one year conversation about what that means, what implications. I mean basically if you're a Cloud-native company you order a data center and Amazon Prime will deliver it in two days, why would anyone want to buy hardware again from HPE or other companies? This is a huge risk, huge challenge, a huge shot across the bow to the industry because this essentially the thing. This is essentially Cloud in a box. Put it in, plug it in, we'll service, turn it on and it works and developers can just do their thing, that's amazing. So I think that's going to be a very hotly-contested topic throughout, at least one year until they ship that and all the posturing and jockeying's going to go on there. And then the other thing that was interesting was there was a lot of coolness, the F1, Racing car with analytics. You had Lockheed Martin with space satellite provisioning, that was pretty cool. And, you know, you got robots and IoT. That's cool, you got space, you got robots, you got, you know, sports cars all using analytics, all using AI, all using large-scale compute storage and networking, very elastic, all with all kinds of new tools and reference engines, but Jerry Chen laid it out from Greylock yesterday around the strategy. Amazon drives the cost down on the infrastructure side and bring the API concept up to AI and bring the marketplace together. So, a lot of action. Today we're going to see the impact and the fallout of that. What's your thoughts? >> Well, first of all John, there's so much to talk about. I want to say, so Werner Vogels this morning gave the keynote. When, when I first joined, you know this industry, we, IBM was everything, IBM was the dominant player. So we used to pour over IBM system and technology guides, and IBM white papers, because they set the technical standard for the industry and they shared that knowledge obviously with their customers to inspire them to buy more stuff, but they were giving back to the community as well to help people understand architectures and core computer science. Listening to Werner Vogels today, Amazon is now the beacon of technology in the industry. He went through the worse day of his life, which was December 12, 2004 when their Oracle Database went down for 12 hours because of a bug in the code and because they were pushing it beyond its limits. And so he described how they solved that problem over a multi-year effort and really got heavy into the technology of database, and recovery, and it was actually quite fascinating. But my takeaway was Amazon is now the company that is setting the technical direction of the industry for the next wave of Cloud-based applications. So that was actually really fascinating. We heard similar things on S3 and S3 recovery, even though they're still using some Oracle stuff it was really, really fascinating to see and very, very impressive. So that's one. As you say, there's so much to talk about. The IoT pieces, John, I really like what Amazon is doing with IoT. They're coming at it from a bottoms up approach, what do I mean by that? Do you remember when mobile first came out Microsoft basically said, hey we're going to put Windows on a phone, top down. We're going to take our existing IT Desktop standards, we're going to push 'em down to mobile, didn't work. And I see a lot of IT companies trying to do that with IoT today, not Amazon. Amazon's saying, look we're going to go bottoms up and serve the operation's technology people with a software development platform that's secure, that allows it, that's fully managed and allows them to build applications for IoT. I think it's the right approach. >> I think the other thing that's coming out is a Tweet here from Bobby Allen who we know from theCUBE days. I, you know, when we, I shared a Tweet about, you know, the future of the converged infrastructure on the outpost he says, software should be where tech companies differentiation value lies. This is back to our beating of the drum about software, software, software, you know. Andy Bechtolsheim, the Rembrandt of motherboards, Pat Gelsinger calls him, said, he's the founder of Arista, hardware's easy, software's hard. Software's where the action is. What Amazon's doing is essentially pushing large-scale platform capabilities and trying to make that as cheap and affordable as possible, the range of services, while creating a new shim layer around API concepts and microservices up the stack to enable people to write software faster, more compelling, more meaningful, and to iterate, and this is resonating with customers, Dave, because if I'm a business I got to write software, okay. I don't want to be in the running data center business because the data center powers the business. So the end doesn't justify the means in that regard. You say, hey, I need a data center to power my top-line revenue which is either going to be software-based or some sort of Edge network scenario, or even a human interface wearable or whatever. Software is the key. So if Amazon can continue to push the cost structure the lock-in spec is locked in because the better value so if it's going to be 80% less cost, and you call that a lock-in spec? A lot of lock-in spec, it's not like a technical lock-in spec, that's just called value. >> I'm locked in to Google Search. I mean, you know, I don't know what to tell ya. I'm not going to use any alternative search I'm just familiar with it, I like it, it's better. >> But software's the key, your thoughts. >> Okay, so, my thoughts on lock-in are, lock-in is one of the most overstated concepts in the business. I'm not saying that lock-in doesn't happen, it does happen, it happens everywhere. It happens across open-source. You do open-source you're locked-in to your developers. I've done research on this John and my research shows that 15% of the buyers really make primary decisions based on whether or not they're going to be locked-in. 85% look at the business value and they trade that off against lock-in so, you know, yeah, buyer beware, blah, blah, blah, but I think it's just really overstated. Yes, it's a Cloud, mother of all lock-ins, but what's the value that you get out of it? Speaking about another lock-in. I want to talk about Intel a little bit because the press has been like chirping about, about Intel and alternative processors, and the arm-based stuff that Amazon is doing. >> Well hold on, let's just set the table on this conversation. Intel announced a series of proprietary processors, their own silicon, you know the-- >> Amazon you mean. >> I mean Amazon, yeah, proprietary processors that are specific to certain workloads, inference engines, and other things around network-- >> Based on the Annapurna acquisition of 2015, a small Israeli-based company that they acquired. >> Yeah, so the press, I've been sharing on, oh, chips must be confronting Intel, your thoughts. >> Yeah, so here's the deal. Look it, Intel is massive and they do a huge amount of business with the Cloud players. Now, here's the thing about Intel, it's really, I've observed Intel for decades. Intel wants a level playing field amongst its customer base and so it wants a lot of different Cloud suppliers even though there's three, four, five, you know, worldwide, there's, there's many dozens, and hundreds of Cloud players out there. Intel wants to support them all. They're an arms dealer, right? They love all their customers and so, so what they do is they sprinkle around the innovation in the industry, they try to open up their architecture such that people can, you know, write software to their architecture and they try to support all their customers. We see it at all the shows. You see it at Lenovo, you see it at Dell, you see it here at AWS, you see at Google, Intel is everywhere and they are by far the biggest supplier. Now, Amazon, of course, has to have alternatives, right? They care about data-center power, you know, they do buy some stuff AMD, why not, why wouldn't you second-source some of this stuff? They do a lot of work with Invidia, ARM has its place, and so, but it's a rounding error in the grand scheme in the market. Now why people get excited is they say, okay, ARM now has a foot in the door, oh, Intel's in trouble. Intel obviously still a dominant player. I think it's, you know-- >> Is Intel in trouble? >> The press likes to glom onto that. Intel's like the dominant player in the microprocessor business and it has to move, and it has to move fast. I would not say Intel is in trouble, I'd say it continues to be the dominant player in the data center. It's got opportunities for alternative processors like Invidia. Intel strategy is to put as much function on the DI as possible and to grab that function, it's always the way it's behaved. You see people like Invidia trying to create opportunities, and doing a very good job of it, and so, there's white space there. It's competition, we love competition, right? >> Here's my, here's my. >> Intel needs some competition frankly. >> Here's my take. One, Intel pays, Amazon pays Intel a lot of money. >> Huge amount of money. >> So it's not like Intel's hurting, Intel's not in trouble. Here's why Intel's not in trouble. One, the Cloud service provider business that Raejeanne runs, she was on theCube yesterday, is growing significantly. A new total adjustable market, they call TAM expansion, is happening. >> So, you know, if you're looking at microprocessors it's not a one, or few, suppliers, it's a total TAM expansion and of course with that expansion of the market Intel's going to take a big chunk of the shares, so they are not in trouble, Amazon pays them a lot of money, they're a big-time supplier to AWS, check. Two, Intel is on a cadence on processor design that spans years. And Raejeanne and other Intel executives have spoken to us off the record, and here on theCUBE that hey, you know, sometimes there's use cases where they're not responding fast enough that are outside they're operating cycles, but as Raejeanne said, Amazon makes them get better, okay? So, they have to manage that, but there's no way Intel's in trouble. I think the press are using this as, to create link bait, for news that is sensational. But, yeah, I mean, on the surface you go, oh, chip, Intel, oh that's Intel's business, it must be bad for Intel. So, yeah, Amazon made their own processor. They got some specific things they want to build specialized processors for like GP Alternative, or inference engines that are tied to the stack, why wouldn't they? Why wouldn't they? >> What Intel will do, what Intel will do is they'll learn from that and they'll respond with functionality for maybe others, or maybe they'll earn Amazon's business, we'll see, but yield to your point, you know, Intel's exposure to the desktop and the laptop, a lot of people wrote about that, that Intel is, the (mumbles) entry is Intel's business, they're so huge, the cost of doing what they do, Intel's such a strategic supplier to so many companies and as we talked to Raejeanne about yesterday the Cloud has completely changed that dynamic and actually brought more suppliers. The data center consolidation that you've seen has been offset by the Cloud explosions, that's a good trend for Intel. And of course the mobile dynamic, you know more about that then I do, but, everybody said mobile's going to kill Intel, it obviously didn't happen. >> Look it, Intel, Intel's smart, they've been around, they're going to not miss the ball. They got a big team that services a lot of these big players. >> Are they still paranoid in your opinion? >> I think they are. >> I do too. >> I do too, I mean I, look it, Intel is, have a cadence of Moore's law. They have a execution style that's somewhat similar to AWS, they've very strict about how they execute and they have a great execution engine. So I would bet the farm that Intel's talking to Amazon and saying, what do you need for us to be better? And if Amazon does what they do best, which is tell them what they need, Intel will deliver. So I'm kind of not worried about Intel on that front. I think in the short term maybe this processor doesn't fit for that, but, that's why GPUs became popular, floating point was a unique thing that CPUs didn't do well on so a GPU comes out, there it is. And we're going to see processors like data-processing units, Pradeep Sindu, former founder of Juniper's, got a venture called, Fungible, that's building a data-processing unit. It's a dedicated chip to serve analytic workloads. These are specialized silicon chips that are going to come on faster, and, to the marketplace. So , just because there's more chips doesn't mean Intel dies 'cause if the TAM expands it's a, it's an overall bigger market so their share might not be as dominant on a smaller market, but it's-- >> You know, I got a, I got to come back to your John Chambers interview. I've watched it a couple times now and I would recommend people would go to, thecube.net, and see John Furrier's interview with John Chambers. The great companies of this industry have survived, you know, I talked about paranoia, Andy Grove, they've survived because they were not dogmatic about the past. So for the past several decades this industry has marched to the cadence of Moore's law and that was obviously very favorable to Intel. Well, that's changing, and it's changed, the innovation engine now, you've called it the innovation sandwich, which is data, machine intelligence applied to that data, in the scale of Cloud. So Intel has to pivot to that to take advantage of that and that's exactly what they're doing. So the great companies of the future, the Microsoft's, the Intel's, the AWS's, they survive because they can evolve. It's the Wang's that didn't, they denied, it was the PC-- >> They were entitled. >> The digital, right. They thought they were entitled and the point that John Chambers made is there's no entitlement and he kept referring to Boston 128, it used to be the Silicon Valley. And the leading executives today, of companies like, like Cisco, like Intel, like Microsoft, can see a vision to the future and they change when they have to change. >> So companies that are entitled, who are they (chuckling)? >> Wow, that' a really-- >> Is Oracle entitled? >> A good question. >> HPE, Dell? >> I think Oracle absolutely acts as though they're entitled and they're bunkering down into their red stack. Now, you know I've often said, don't bet against Larry Ellison, and I wouldn't make that bet against Larry Ellison, but his TAM is confined to Oracle customers. He's not currently going after, non-Oracle customers in my opinion at least not with a strategy that's obvious to me. And I think that's part of the reason why Thomas Kurian left the company is I think they had a battle about that, at least that's what my sources tell me. I haven't talked to him directly, I actually don't know him, but I know people who know him and have worked with him. HPE, I think HPE is more confused as to what the next step is. When they split the company apart they kind of gave up on software, they gave up on an integrated-supply chain. Mike Odell took the other approach, and thanks to VMware he's got a wining strategy. So, I think today's leading executives realize that they have to change. Look at Ginni Rometty, remember IBM was in trouble in my opinion because Watson failed, and their Cloud strategy essentially failed. So they just made a 34 billion dollar acquisition, a Red Hat, which is a bold move. And that, again, demonstrated a company who said, okay, hey it's not working, we have to pivot and we have to invest and go forward. >> Alright Dave, great kickoff day three. Andy Jassy coming up at the end of the day and he's going to do his annual, kind of, end of the last day roundup on theCUBE, kind of lean back, talk about what's going on and how he feels from the quotes, what people missed, what people got, and do a full review of re:Invent 2018. Day three kicks off here, CUBE, two sets on the floor gettin' all the content. We already have over a hundred videos. We'll have 500 total video assets, go to siliconangle.com and check out the blog there. A lot of stories flowing, a lot of flow, a lot of demand for the content. Stay with us for more after this short break.