>> live from Mountain View, California It's the queue covering definite create twenty nineteen. Brought to you by Cisco. >> Welcome to the Cubes Live coverage here in Mountain View, California Computer History Museum for Cisco's definite create on John for your host here with Lisa Martin, she's taking a break. Is out getting stories out around for our national Paul Giblin, who's an enterprise architect at Presidio, formerly on the Q Before Cube alumni. Great to see you again. Thanks for coming on. >> That's great. CIA's. Well, thank you for >> what? I was looking for this interview because last time we chat with all my cloud hybrid cloud. Now, as an enterprise architect, you're in the middle of all the conversations around how enterprises and commercial businesses are leveraging the cloud multi cloud hybrid cloud. A lot of hype, a lot of reality. But the one thing that's clear is the cloud Cos air blowing away the financial operating performances. Amazon released their earnings today. Amazing financial performance. Amazon Web services have the profit of all of Amazon Amazing. Since they only start in two thousand six, Microsoft change their business plan from being, you know, Hon premise solution software to cloud trillion dollar market cap. It goes on and on and on. But it's a tell sign of the wave that's happening in that is computing network architectures air all transforming an application. Modernization. Tsunami is coming. Renaissance of applications are happening. >> This is a big >> part of what you do when definite creates a Cisco's version of Hey, guys, we got to create the future. Sure, this is the reality. What's your take on all this thes big waves and activity? >> Yeah, I think you know, there's certainly a ton of activity going on around multi cloud, especially with, you know, Amazon. And as your GP uh definite is really a hub for it from the perspective of Cisco. So if you look at the things that people are talking about here this year is supposed to last year, it's It's totally different. Last year, people we're talking >> about Well, how >> do I D ?'Oh, my collaboration absent anyway. And how do I modernized my data center with answerable inscription? Things like that. And this year people are talking about blockchain. They're talking about multi cloud. They're talking about machine learning. There's their spokes over there talking about graft intense airflow and things like that. So what I really like about this event is the fact that it's people who are on the bleeding edge and are thinking about the new thing today before it becomes mainstream. >> Is a great point. Suzy We was on earlier. She's ahead of definite definite create and she had a great team. But one of the things that she said to me, and unless I get your reaction to this is you know she's had research roles in HP, but labs back in the day. So >> you have those research. It's the next big wave coming here. It's really >> people in the bleeding edge who were making it real. So it's not just, you know, some way that's coming. It's actually happening so far. This event really kind of points to what's really now. Your job is you make stuff real right. So you've got a kind of thread. The line between okay, bleeding edge hyper reality and kind of wire it up for customers with Presidio. So you're under a lot of pressure. You've got to do the right thing. You got architect it out. This is kind of where the game is right now. So what's the experience that you're seeing in the real world as this stuff start to become really, as customers want to create better APS better network architectures kind of retrenching happening? What's your What's your thoughts? Whats the key highlights. >> I think people are struggling with decisions around. You know what, what cloud do I put my work loads in? Do I put them in a cloud at all? What workloads do I keep on premise when I'm making these decisions, how do I get these APS to the different places they need to live? How do I have an app that might be stretched from my own premise data center to Azure or to a ws? How do I keep that secure? How doe I network that together? How do I make sure that I'm not the next big headline in the next big reach that comes around So those air, some of the challenges that are out there and they're all things that are difficult to navigate because every organizations a little bit different in terms of the skill sets that they have. So you've got some folks who are right at home. You know, doing a twelve fact, their app on going full on cloud, native and, you know, putting stuff all out on Amazon and not think twice about it. And then you've got a lot of organizations who maybe don't have mature depth shops and have a lot of legacy infrastructure. Folks who still need to retool Enrique it to get up to speed, to bring everything together. >> So skilled gap big time. >> Oh, yeah, >> that's for you guys. Come in. I want to get caught before we came on to talk here live. We're talking off camera around the Gerson Enterprise and a commercial business and the distinction between their needs Enterprise. I was in more complex, you know, multi campus multinational, potentially to commercial businesses. I won't say small music, but people were like pretty much smaller scale. Can you just par set out and talk about what we chatted about the distance between the commercial and the teens and challenging opportunities they have? Visa VI Say it. Enterprise. >> I think it comes down to a lot of the things that we do today are designed to make things simpler. That's not always the case. Sometimes, in order to make it simple. You have to do a very hard thing under the covers to get it that way in the first place. And for a small commercial organization, that's not always the easiest thing in the world. They're typically resource constrained, and their business is not running. Their business is generating revenue through whatever it is that they do now. On enterprise is a little bit different, and enterprise has multiple different revenue streams coming in from multiple different businesses. And they're typically much more invested in a much larger IT staff and have folks who are multi discipline, you know, interface with their peers. Have enough resource is to really, truly adopt a dead mobster. >> Got network team security teams the whole nine yards, I think Chief data officer, all that stuff, commercial organizations Now again, Great opportunity for cloud on both fronts, right? You got enterprises. It kind of would have nicked mixed of public cloud for cloud native work clothes, maybe clean sheet of paper brand new use case hybrid where they won't have operating on premise and then multi cloud that might have azure for three sixty five office and then run Amazon for this or they're so multi cloud seems to be a reality. On one front, commercial organizations seemed tohave cloud on their mind. But legacy apse that they've written software for that might have been written in order, entry system or, you know, some sort of work flow that's tailored for, say, the revenue. How do you advise those two scenarios? >> Yeah, I mean, if you've got a legacy app that you need to contend with, one of the first things you need to do is understand the APP itself. We're having a conversation earlier on what we talked about wass. There's organizations out there who have these applications, and the people who wrote those applications have long ago left. So you've got some new software developers who were coming in. They don't have contextual history, and then you've got infrastructure. People who are keeping the ship afloat but don't know how it floats. They don't understand displacement. >> So you've got these new folks coming in, and then we write our own. We get new ABS higher team. What do we hire ex A. You know, exactly exactly. So you know, there's a decision that >> needs to be made to do. We continue to run this on Prem, Do we consider re platforming in trying to move it out to the cloud Tio? We start fresh and try and re factor. Do we do this in the house? Do we pull in an external third party that try and do that for us? So all the challenges >> so about the relation with Cisco also your party with them you're here a definite create your also a participant in the community. They got definite, which is their core developer. Coming a couple years old. Definite create five years old, Definite creates kind of like brings in the creator's side of it. A za practitioner. Pardon Francisco here to learn and then bring that home to apply to Presidio. How does that work? Explain the folks. How does Presidio were? Francisco. How do you take stuff from definite definite create? How do you commercialize that for your business? And what's the impact of the customer? Sure. >> So it's It's more organic than you might think. So we've got a whole contention of folks here, especially, and I'm going to give a big shout out to our women intact. You were here on DH. These folks are going in there checking out the things that they're into. Is it in? And like I said, there's a diverse group of sessions that are out there spanning machine, learning to blockchain to wish there's somebody right behind us here, I think talking about, >> uh, >> hioki >> it's not a security >> threat somewhere way, air gap, That thing. Yeah, >> So these things folks are sitting in on the sessions that are of interest to them and they're going back to Presidio. And we've got internal WebEx team spaces where all of our folks who are interested in any kind of depth sit down to collaborate. And we are also, you know, maintaining our own internal code repositories where anybody who wants to go take a look at some of the intellectual property we're developing. I can go pull that asset, communicate with the person who's working on it, manipulate it, put it back all that way, also have, you know, sponsorship from the top on down. So from Thomas all the way down it, it's We know that the next generation of engineers need to understand on some level program ability, concepts, and this is a great way to adjust that, >> and this is this is a strategic and parent management behind it. Program ability gives off for some advantages. What's your take on it? I know you. You talk about in the last Cuban. If you want to just come back to the automation opportunity because, you know, let's just face it. Command line interface is how we ran things in networks over the years. But now, with program ability, that's more higher yield activities that architects and network guys and developers can work on. Then the mundane tasks go on. Now if you can program things, certainly with WiFi six and MURAKI, it's all one network. So why not have that visibility to the data? Why not program stuff to make life easier? Your thoughts on this and how it's playing out? >> I think it's, uh, it's playing out slowly and in pockets. I think there's a lot of folks who are working on these kinds of concepts, but they tend to be isolated. So from a network engineer and I come to an event like this, I'm probably going to go back to whatever my day job is, and I might write some of my own code. But unless you have some of those facilities in place that I talked about us having in Presidio, it's difficult to share what you're doing with others on. If it's difficult to share what you're doing with others, she's kind of out on an island, right, so you might have efficiencies that you're gaining. But if you are not taking that and sharing it with other people, your company may not be arriving the full benefit. Now. I think as an individual you could do a lot of good by automating things that you do, which enables you as an individual to focus on even more. But when you look at some of the cool stuff that's out there that could be shared, like the Iraqi demo for the A R looking at access points, that's just phenomenal capability That brings great benefit to a lot of different people. >> So you guys had success with a lot of sharing the collaboration internally, absolute with with the tools you've built. What's the the verdict you guys mentioned? You have some divers, folks here, women in tech, What's the president's here for city like a definite create this year what some of the key highlights from you guys. >> So I think we've got a couple of presenters way have one new definite creator, Mabel. And so she's Ah, believe second female definite creator and the first for Presidio. Jeff and I had taken those down last year and you know, she's she's fantastic. She's running weekly courses for the women and organization to teach them on these concepts. And she's a powerhouse Amazing s o way. Like I said, we have that whole contingent of women in Tech who are here. We've got a handful of gentlemen who are here as well, including Jeff eleven sailor, who you interviewed yesterday, and Greg and use Ellie, both of whom have multiple presentation's going on all standing room only s O. We're definitely invested in different >> directions on the women Tech thing. I think that's huge. I think that's the inclusion thing, that we'd love to see it again. You know, numbers, air still with the percentages, need a lot more work. I mean, just bring in more women and breathes more action. Mohr capabilities. More results. >> Absolutely. I'm all in on women in tech. I have three daughters, so I mean, naturally invested. I'm tryingto help create the world Anyway, I can where they can grow up. And I walked right into a meeting and not have Tio contend with some of the >> democratization of technology is really what it's all about. And, you know, you're not really anything in this community. Let's getem Iraqi, huh? But your house running all your surveillance cameras >> you got in fact are a camera >> app that identifies sexual predators. So I'm gonna have those hanging over my front door now. Nobody's coming anywhere near that. >> That's better than ring. Certainly go in the shark tank pitch that maybe ***. Paul, Thanks for coming on. Great to see you again and congratulate you. Sex distinct, distinct success. Distinguished engineer Now for Ciccio Great company. Give a quick point for the coming. What's going on? Presidio? What do you guys are doing? What kind of work you doing? And how'd people contact you? >> I >> need to be a formal marketeer to do any of this stuff. So, you know >> video is >> authentic and it's real. >> We're We're a three billion dollar organization. We've got three thousand some odd individuals, over half of whom are are certified engineers way. Do everything from cloud Teo I ot to traditional infrastructure collaboration. We've got a huge security practice manage services practice. We do financing s so we really try to be a one stop shop for just about anything. I related a >> lot of creation going on the community here, and I think one of the things that's great is this all about making it really taking the way. That's everyone's riding, getting it, really making it work. Congratulations. >> Thank you very much. >> Cube coverage here, here in Mountain View. I'm John Forward the Cube with Lisa Martin here covering Day two of definite create stay with more live coverage after this short break.

(busy music) >> Announcer: Live from the Computer History Museum in Mountain View, California, it's the Cube, covering DevNet Create 2018. Brought to you by Cisco. (busy music) >> Hello and welcome back to the Cube's live coverage here in Silicon Valley at the Computer History Museum in Mountain View California for Cisco's DevNet Create 2018. I'm John Furrier with my co-host, Lauren Cooney. This week, our next guest is Paul Giblin, Senior Solutions Architect, Presidio. Welcome to the Cube. >> Thank you, thank you for having me. >> Cisco, Champion, Spark Master, you've written pretty much everything under the sun for Cisco? >> Paul: CCIE, yeah. >> Yeah. We've been following this story a long time, obviously, DevNet, really successful, almost a half a million developers in that community and growing. DevNet Create, kind of putting a forward flank on cloud kind of bringing that migration path, the connection between the developer programs, really, and the communities. >> Paul: Sure. >> They don't have a translation, I mean, what's your take on it as you look at it, I mean, some very relevant things, the programmable network is cool. What's your reaction to the direction, your thoughts, input? >> I think it's a fantastic program. I've mentioned it in several other interviews I've done over time. It's a great program, because it's about enablement. It's helping people get from where they used to be as CLI junkies and where we've been for the last 25 years, and moving them into a new space where they can now do much more with the network, and continue to remain relevant as well. >> What are some of the things that you see? Because we, I have a lot of friends who work at Cisco, worked there, back in the '90s, been the crew, and obviously, they ran the networks, it is well documented the historic nature of Cisco. But the debate internally has always been moving up the stack. At what point, Cisco is very cool about knowing their place in the stack, doing kickass things. But then as the market changes, now you have that stack change, certainly with DevOps, you now have abstraction layer, you've got Kubernetes. Now you have, now, the ability to take all the network stuff that was really enabling the apps to co-exist with apps sharing data, getting programmability. Where's the use cases? Where is the low hanging fruit for folks that are looking to put their toe in the water, and/or becoming more modern in that, in more of a fabric way, or however it's called, or what's your view on the use cases? >> They're still fuzzy, I'm still trying to figure that out myself. I've run into a lot, and most of them seem to be automation use cases, at least so far. My brain is wired to think from the perspective of the infrastructure engineer, and less so the developer. But as I continue to attend DevNet events and immerse myself in the community, I'm finding I'm starting to look at things through a new lens, and I think that's one of the big values of coming here. >> I think, too, when you take a look at coming from the application layer, where I come from, actually, and also from the infrastructure layer, you have these application developers that actually don't know the power of what they can get from the network. By offering up APIs, they can start to pull this data into their applications to make them run better, to have better uptime, to add more features, more data, whatever they may need from that network, if they have ability to understand the network to a certain perspective. >> I think one of the challenges you have there is very much like infrastructure folks, or traditional infrastructure folks don't really understand a lot of what's going on with the application. You have the converse as well, so a lot of folks who are working in the application space don't understand the infrastructure. Even though Cisco's exposing a lot of really cool functionality and capability, they might not necessarily understand how to leverage it, and I think that's where the value really exists in the market today, is for the people who can come from the infrastructure side and take on a little bit of the application and people who are on the application side who can really say they're going full stack including the infrastructure, right. >> On the network side, one of the things that have always been important is provisioning, configuration management, these are the tenets of a nice solid network. But now, when you talk about the DevOps, one of the things is, oh, yeah, just pull provision, they have some of there. Like, they want dynamic, right. Policy base has been around for a while, QoS, these are concepts. How do you view that? Because now this is an opportunity to bring a known network construct to apps. Now with decentralization in apps, network effect is a huge dynamic, you're seeing the notion of network effects, how people share, how apps are integrating. I mean, Facebook's trying to explain to the senators yesterday and then today how Facebook works. App services now are taking on a much more different look. But they're network apps, basically. This is really kind of coming to the forefront. I mean, how does a network guy get trained up on that? I mean, is there common threads that you see where people, as they learn more, where they can connect in? Do you have any thoughts on that? >> I wouldn't even know where to begin. When I look at this stuff, I think about how do I make the network so that it's available and rock solid and able to support whatever application may ride on top of it. I think the change, as you had mentioned, is really, now, how do I allow people who aren't necessarily going to be moving cables and getting deep with the network, interact with it in a safe, controlled way where they're not necessarily going to break anything, but they are able to affect some kind of change that helps their app run on the infrastructure it's sitting on top of. >> On the Spark side, you mentioned you're a Spark master. >> Paul: Sure. >> That's a collaboration app uses video and all kinds of stuff. How is that workload treated in the network? Is it much more locked down, is it more? I mean, because that's a dynamic app. How is that integrating on the Cisco on Cisco environment? >> I think that traditional roles for QoS still apply. I don't think trying to dynamically change QoS has ever been a good idea. I think it's a really dynamic thing, and it's very difficult to pin down because at any given point in time, I could be communicating with the cloud, I could be communicating with five other end points over here, I could be hitting an MCU, a data center somewhere, a video bridge that sits locally, kind of across the room. There's a lot of different ways to communicate. What makes that scary and difficult and hard to code for is, they're all different and it's not standardized. I think we're just getting to a place now where that may be a reality, but we're not there yet. >> Yeah, I mean, you bring up a good point. One of the things that jumps in my head immediately is like all this multicloud talk is a nightmare, because you think about just latency alone on interconnect between clouds. Even though they publish direct connections, I mean, you live in a world of latency. Like, it's so unknown, so I mean, there's a lot of real unknowns that are coming to the table that architects really got to figure out. I find that fascinating. Have you had a chance to play with the wireless stuff that's on the Cisco side? >> Paul: Sure. >> In terms of how that's planning out? How is that going, because that's an IoT enabler? >> Yeah, so there's all kinds of use cases around wireless. Location is a huge one. I think there was a gentleman who was presenting yesterday with a mapping application that shows how to get from point A to point B. I think there's been a couple of organizations have implemented that at a very large scale who had a lot of resources to put behind it. But I think your average consumer company or enterprise company is not really equipped to build things like that. I think Meraki is starting to try and make that easy. Stuff like that's really exciting. >> Yeah, I mean, I think it's got a lot of prospects. What are you working on now? What are the cool projects you're working on now? What are you digging your teeth into from a project standpoint? >> I've been working on an app for several months with a couple of co-workers of mine to start to automate switch migrations. In the infrastructure world, you're going to have switch refreshes every so often, and it's a difficult and manual process. We're working on a set of tools to automate that to get people who are really intelligent folks working on more creative things so that they're not doing rote labor nearly as much. I've been kind of building toolkits to help with automation of business processes that we go through at Presidio. >> Automation, dev, just automating the manual tasks, you mean, or is it more? >> Well, the manual tasks still need to happen, so your engineers still need to move cables from A to B. >> John: Yeah, obviously. >> But we're automating what happens logistically in terms of what you need to do to prepare for that migration, how that process is instrumented during actual execution. Then how it looks in terms of accountability and auditability after the job has been completed. >> That's a good point. In fact, let's bring that up, because we debate this all the time in the Cube in conversations, because someone, oh, you do something three times, you should be automating it. Not necessarily, the real human component, obviously, cable, you've got to move cable here, they don't just magically move, you can't automate that. But, and there's physics on the wireless side, too, you can't really change those things. But what is an ideal things to automate? You mention things that make sense. Hey, I'm doing this prep work and automate that. What are some of the things that you advise people to look to when they think about automation? What's the areas that kind of filter past you? >> I think the things that are ripe targets for automation are the things you don't like to do. If you can find something that somebody else is doing and doesn't want to do, automate that, and you've got a built in customer right there. >> Yeah, yeah, big ear. All right, cool, well, what do you think of the show here? Thoughts? >> I think the show's fantastic. I didn't get to attend last year and I really wish that I had, but this is my first one, and my experience here has been fantastic. >> John: Any sessions you like the best? Things you jumped on? >> I like the sessions I deliver the best. >> Well, thanks so much for coming on the Cube. >> Thank you. >> Excellent work, great job. >> Thank you much. >> The Cube, bringing all the action, Cisco Champions, getting down in the trenches and the practitioners doing all the work, really is the convergence of networks and the cloud and software DevOps coming together, really, with the two worlds coming together, it's certainly relevant, and this is what we're covering here on the Cube. More live coverage here in Mountain View, California after this short break. (busy music)