(upbeat music) >> Back the cube here. I'm John Furrier with the cube. Thanks Adam in the studio. We've got two entrepreneurs here. Co-founders of LastMileXchange, Andrew Hoskin and James Grant. Guys, thanks for coming on the cube, >> John. Good to be here. >> Love to get the entrepreneur, both co-founders making it happen. I mean, the pandemic was either a tailwind or a headwind for companies and certainly the internet didn't break. Everything worked out great. So, let's just jump in, why don't we get into some of the questions. What does LMX do? Who are you guys? Take a quick minute to explain what you guys do. >> Sure. So, we're a software provider. We have a cloud-based SAS platform, which effectively it's a bit like a Skyscanner or an Expedia for networks. Carriers need to buy and sell networks from each other and we help them do that. And we have been in the cloud since day one. And so, that's what we do while we're here and it's a good place for us to tell you about it. >> I got it. I got to ask you, because one of the things being entrepreneur, you've got to read the tea leaves. One of the secrets of being a co-founder and doing anything entrepreneurial these days is you got to see the future, but then you've got to come back to the present and convince everybody, what's going on. >> Entrepreneurs: Yeah. >> What is the core value proposition? What's the day in the life of a conversation? I mean you're talking to Martians now, like, huh? What's the public cloud it's like, is it like, isn't it just the internet? It's changing. What's the value proposition? What's the conversation like? >> So, the value position for us is that we, you know, we work with our customers to accelerate the sales cycle through cloud based services. So, a lot of our customers are global tier one carriers. So, we're looking to automate their connectivity pricing, and we do that via a cloud-based solution. So it is vital to us. And particularly with having customers all across the globe, being able to sort of deploy cloud-based services makes life much easier. >> I got to ask you, one of the things that we love about cloud is the agilities. >> Yeah. >> Can you talk about the impact of what you guys are offering for the agility side. What's the impact of the consumer, the application developer, what's the impact? >> Clouds have a big play for us, big impact for our customers. So we provide our solution effectively, almost a plug and play for them. So, we do quoting really, really well. You want to know where a network is, you want to know the connectivity, we'll sort that out for you, and we can give you a solution that they can plug into their systems really quickly. In terms of, for us, when we first started, we had servers in data centers and managing software on that, but we moved to Amazon pretty early. And what we now have is, we can spin up a new customer environment in a day, which you know, from previously two, three weeks. So, cloud has been transformational for us and hopefully for our customers as well. >> And you guys target mainly carriers? >> Very much so, yeah. We're very much in the big carrier Telco space. The people that provide the fabric upon which all of this sits. >> Yeah. And then by the way, it's magic and this, it's robust. It's what we need, utilities, it's important. Last mile, obviously, as we all, some people look at it and say, go back decades, rug ban, you know, last mile is always that last nut to crack. 5G's here, the mobile sector is looking at massive growth. You're starting to see the cloud providers recognize that the edge is just another network connection. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> How do you guys see that evolving? What's going on? How do you see that affecting your business, the customers on the market? >> Well, so network, I mean, access is all about getting onto the network, whether you're talking cloud or whatever. So, if you can't get into the network, cloud is nothing. If you can't sort of back haul your 5G, you're stuck. So, what we're seeing is, even with 5G, as it rolls out, as people look to densify their networks, they still need to get all that voice stuff, all that data traffic onto fiber. So, we're seeing a lot of interest there still in knowing where connectivity options are, knowing where the network is. With James also, I mean, that other aspect of access, 10 years ago was all about fiber. But you were just telling me before about how increasingly carriers are using 5G as effectively a router in a box, ship it in by a DPD or FedEx out to a customer. >> Yeah. So typically we'll think about mobile as connecting your mobile phone, but now we're looking at sort of, mobile connecting buildings. And one of the key challenges when you're connecting a building with mobile is what the actual connectivity within the building is. So, often we will see mobile maps that show you that sort of connectivity at sort of, the outside level. But of course, you're actually going to have your infrastructure in the building. So, you need to know what the straight signal strength is there. So, we're actually working with a partner at the moment so that we can identify within a building, what the quality of the signal is. >> I mean, that's class, if you think about like, most people think of, oh, it just drops to the end point and then you've got more network behind it, wireless. You got now to work at home dynamics, IOT devices. So, you guys have the buy-sell side of things going on, you got the carriers buying and selling there. >> Entrepreneurs: Yeah, absolutely. >> And then, SD WAN is a huge market, >> Andrew: Absolutely. >> That's growing and, as well. >> And all of that relies on access. Do you know what I mean? Like, you can talk 5G, you can talk IOT. And of course, those are the exciting, sexy things in the industry. But underpinning all of that is a network. And you mentioned the word before and it's right, utility, you know, maybe it's not the sexy side of things, but you've got to have it, otherwise, nothing else works. >> You know, one of the things we do a lot of cloud cover, we cover all of Amazon shows here coming into Telco, the Telco, digital revolution that's going on here, you can see it. And some people aren't ready for it. Almost like, reminds me of the mainframe days back when I was growing up in college, it's like, oh, I'm not, I don't want to do the mainframe. I'm the new guy, I'm the young kid. I love this, a PC and mini computers. Here, it's the same thing. It's kind of like, okay, I see the cloud, but when you have infrastructure as code, >> Yeah. >> Everything gets fuzzy. >> Yeah. >> I mean, now you're talking about programmability. So, that edge at the application level, some say it's going to be a massive innovation enabler, which is going to change that infrastructure's code, which means that guys like you guys got to be able to provide programmable routes, programmable and, >> Yeah. And APR is our, and the programmability of the network, the whole interplay from whether it's quoting, whether it's ordering, whether it's delivering services, whether it's kind of somebody going into somewhere and saying, "I'd like a, a hundred gig into this building", pressing a button and 15 minutes later, everything rolls together to turn it up, is where the whole industry is going. >> Let's take that for a second. >> Sure. >> Just a mind blowing scenario right there. Sounds simple. >> Yeah. >> Compared to where we were just 15 years ago. >> Yeah. >> That scenario didn't exist. >> No. >> And it's hard. It's not trivial. >> No. >> It's not non-trivial. All right. So what's this mean for customers? Are they like buying this level now, like, are they like, where are they on the spectrum of, you know, buying and the progression of operationalizing their business to be fully robust, network end to end, visibility on workloads to network? >> I would say it often depends where the customer is. So, obviously we deal with global customers and that's one of our big selling points is that, you know, a lot of people are focusing on the US, the Western European market, you know, and the connectivity challenges that they're trying to solve there. Our customers have global customers who are looking for connectivity all throughout world. And often there'll be things like mining companies who don't have fiber going into them. And so, we need to be able to work with our customers and their suppliers to be able to automate everything, because you can only fully quote a network when you've got all the locations back. And if you're waiting for information coming back from Africa or from the former CIS, then you know, you're going to have a problem. And we're working with companies in Africa and Russia, Kazakhstan, at the moment to help them automate everything. >> You know what's interesting, I just, my mind just goes nuts here when thinking about what you guys do, because as people start rolling their own with applications, they're going to need to have this programmability, like almost on demand, they're going to need to have, I want to do a digital TV network, I want to provision something or something's hybrid or at the edge. >> You've got a football game, or you've got something like this where you need capacity, you need it quickly. You need it for an event. >> Yeah, exactly. And 5G's perfect. I mean, how many times we've all been at a soccer game or a football game. It's like, I got bars but I have no back haul. Like we all been there. >> Yeah. >> Why, oh? >> Saturated the network and everyone's doing the same thing. >> The radios working, the back haul's choking. I mean, this is real. >> Absolutely. >> How does, does 5G solve that? I mean, where does that get, how does that get solved? I mean, is it going to be ubiquitous? Truly 5G going to make us all work better? I mean, certainly for the end use of 5G is it provides speed, it provides capacity. And also for the operators it provides being able to get more people onto it. And so, and 5G is not my core strength, but it absolutely will be transformative. What I can comment on is, like you say, for an event like this or the football or anything, the Euros, it ultimately goes into a pipe. So, you've got to make sure that you've got to have the right connectivity there and the right capacity there, from the user's phone, through the towers, all the way into the network, all the way to the data center and back again. So the edge, everything, has to play together to do that, and probably, rolling it out quickly and making sure it's agile and making sure it's fast and making sure it's quick and reliable. That's what needs to all work together. I liked how you said you know, the Expedia of the networks. >> Andrew: Yeah. >> That immediately in my mind says, okay, ease of use. >> Andrew: Yeah. >> From consumption standpoint, what's the next level of growth for you guys? I'm almost imagining is programmability or cloudifying or amplifying it, make it rain. >> Yeah, certainly we are going to continue to push into, yeah, effectively digital transformation in fact, across telecoms is happening. You would think there would be a lot further ahead than it is. It's not. There are a lot of people still quoting, ordering manually. So, we're very much part of that, but certainly the ordering and the provisioning, like we've mentioned, that's a big part, but for the industry, and we're going to hopefully be part of that, or we expect to be part of that. So that's, and making sure that connectivity is there when you need it. You know, I'm here, what's there? A bit like flights, I'd like to fly to New York. Who can do it, how much will it cost? I'll buy that one please. And that's what networks should be as well. >> James, what's your vision on how the customers are progressing in their mindset? Obviously, you've got the blocking and tackling to do, you're in the market. Where are they going with the use case and the application? >> The customers are getting to the stage where they're expecting to be able to go into a portal and turn up services. So, as with many things that we're seeing throughout life today, you can go into an app, you can press a couple of buttons and you can, you can order something. So, that's what they're expecting is to be able to just go and say, I need a hundred mg here, press a few buttons. And in 10 minutes time, the circuit's not only quoted, but it's provisioned. At the moment, there's this sort of a digital divide between those that have the digitization in place and those that don't. And that's the sort of the key that we're trying to sort of help the industry with is the sort of the, the outliers and, and also the main carriers to make sure that it's not a sort of, a digital haves and a digital have-nots. >> I was just going to say that. So, if you have the digital haves and have-nots, is that a function of them just not being operationalized in their digitization? Or is it they're not set up for it or they don't have you guys? What's that have-not side of it? How do they become the haves? >> One of the biggest challenges is actually around the sort of, identifying the connectivity at a particular location. So, in some countries it's very easy to do, like the US, UK, Netherlands. We have nice sort of standard address formatting, and you can identify a building at roof level. And when it comes to turning up connectivity straight away, you want to make sure that you turn up the connectivity to the right building. And that's one of the challenges that we're seeing throughout sort of, some of the Eastern European and the LatAm, the Asian and the African markets. >> I mean, we saw what happened with Amazon instances. You've got spot instances, you get reserved instances, you're starting to see that mindset. That's a SAS mindset. >> Yeah. >> That's kind of where things are going. Is that, you guys see the same thing here or is it different? >> Yeah. Well, certainly at the enterprise space, they tend to make decisions over a longer scale. So there, maybe not so much that you sign contracts in a year's term et cetera, but yeah, certainly as a provider, a SAS provider, using all those things, the ability to to tune your expenses, tune your costs, even your resource, you know, you're turning up servers by the hour, by the minute is a big thing. And it takes a mindset change for us and our customers. >> If you don't mind me asking, how long have you guys been doing business as co-founders, when did it start? What was the guiding principle? How do you guys look back now? >> James and I met working for Verizon many years ago. You might've heard of them. And, we sort of did what we do now, in as much as James ran the commercial side of things, I ran the software side of things and we saw that connectivity was a universal problem. And so we saw our opportunity. We went out, we started LastMileXchange. We pivoted once or twice, still in the same space, but we eventually realized that where we are now was what the industry needed. And that's where we've been pushing now for quite a few years. >> I want to give you guys a lot of credit and a lot of props, congratulations. I think, you know, the digital divide has been a broadband challenge for many, many years and decades. Now, you've got that urban divide where people don't have access. And I heard stories during the pandemic that people had access in the region, but couldn't get it to the home, affordability, access, devices. These are new issues, the digital divide, they have connectivity options. >> Andrew: Yeah. >> But it's not really clear yet. So, you're starting to see a lot more of that going on. Of course, the rural areas. >> Andrew: Yeah. >> I live out in the countryside on a farm. So, I'm quite used to their challenges of connectivity. You know, when I first moved into my house, I ended up having to get to way satellite broadband and things have improved now. But when we're talking about 5G, you have people in London, they have 5G. 5G is something that I'm not going to see for three, four years probably. >> Globally, it'll democratize access because like we were saying, we're sitting in an enterprise. You can send out a rooter or a router with a SIM card in it. I mean, you can give a kid a mobile phone in the middle of, you know, Kenya, and he can have access to the world through the internet. So, you know, that increased capacity, that increased densification of networks. Okay, they're not all going to be on 5G today. James hasn't got 5G and he only lives 30 minutes out of London. But 3G, 4G, I think the gentlemen on one of the keynotes was talking there about 3G Plus. You know, effectively, that's going to roll out. The 5G's are going to be in New Yorks and London, but, >> Like, it's going to be bring your own G to your house soon. And I think this space ops is going to be great. And I think overall, just overall, the challenges and the topologies, you're going to start to see diversity in the network topology, and actually it's going to explode. >> Andrew: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. >> Going to be super exciting. Well, again, I think you guys are under something big. I think this idea of sasifying, making things programmable, infrastructure as code is going to be pretty big. So, thanks for coming on. And what's your take, real quick, of Cloud City. >> It's been great. We've just walked in. We both said, as we came in, we came in yesterday to set up and we were really blown away and the rest of our team arrived today and they were very impressed as well. I was going to say Telco D on the team, have done a really impressive job. >> I think you have to come here and see it to believe it because when we walked in, it was just like, this place is stunning. >> Awesome. Well that's the cube coverage, we're rocking and rolling here. We're going back to the studio to see Adam and the team. Back to you.

>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas, it's the CUBE, covering Interconnect 2017, brought to you by IBM. >> Welcome back, everyone. We're live in Las Vegas for the CUBE's coverage of Interconnect 2017. This is three days of wall-to-wall coverage. Stay with us for the entire event. This is day two. I'm John Furrier with my co-host Dave Vellante and Esques' Willie Tejada, who's the IBM chief developer advocate at IBM. Welcome to the CUBE. >> Thank you, guys. I'm really pleased to be here. >> So, love to have you on because all we do is talk about developers and what's in it for them, who's doing what, who's got the better cloud, who's enterprise ready, all that good stuff, commentating. But I love Ginny Rometty's conversation today because we just had Google Next, covered Amazon events, all the cloud events, and the thing that's been on our agenda, we've been really looking at this, is cloud readiness in the enterprise. And this is really kind of fundamental, what she was talking about, enterprise strong, data first, cognitive to the core, which kind of is their three pillars, but this is the, where the action is right now. >> Yeah you know for developers that's exactly true. You know, what you outlined is really this idea of basically there's three kind of core architectures, right? It's cloud, number one, followed by data layered on top of that, and essentially AIR cognitive on top. And what that means actually for the developer communities is that there's a new set of skill sets that are probably moving faster than we have ever seen before, right? And a lot of it's actually driven by this explosion of data, and so um, one of the things that we think that there's going to be a huge shortage of and there is a huge shortage of, is data scientists and cognitive developers. Because in those layers, what we've seen is that more and more, you operate on a data first model and by that, by just that definition, what you need to know about data is pushing towards a practitioner level of data scientists and the reality is that we think that type of core skill sets going to be needed across all of the developer communities. >> So take a minute to describe what will define a cognitive developer >> Tajeda: Sure, >> And what that, and the nuance behind it, because obviously the developers are doing really cool creative things, and then you've got the heart under the hood, production work loads and IT so where is the cognitive developer fit in those spectrums and what is the core definition from your standpoint? >> Yeah you know, the cognitive developer really is a person who's actually participating in actually the generation of a system that's fully cognitive, so you know, adding a cognitive feature is one thing, but actually building a full cognitive system is something different. You know if I use a comparison, think about how some of these roles in big data came about big data came, but we didn't have things like a data scientist, we didn't have a data engineer, and it kind of came after the fact the roles that were actually defined. Now we're onto these new cognitive systems where everything from, you have to train the system you have to have explicit knowledge of what the APIs actually do and you have to have infrastructure that actually curates data that continues this training along those lines. So you know the cognitive developers, really one that's participating in that particular ecosystem now what's really important though about that is they are usually programming in the language that their usually programming in. Whether it be Java, data scientists are using r or they're using Python, but the reality is that a cognitive developer's is that one that's applying those cognitive properties to their system that they're developing. >> So this is interesting, you mentioned the cognitive develop new tools and stuff, but there's some really good trends out there that are, that's the wind at the back of the developer right now. Cloud native is a booming trend that's actually phenomenal, you're seeing container madness continue, you've got micro services, all with kubernetes under the hood so there's some cool exciting things in the trend lines, can you unpack that for us and what this means to the developers, how does it impact their world? I mean we hear composability, lego blocks most developers know API economy is here, but now you've got these new tail winds, these new trends, >> Tajeda: Yep >> What's the, what are they, add to at, what's the impact to the developer? >> Well we talked about the new container service based on kubernetes that's allowing us to actually build to tremendous scale, and really simplify that type of development actually when you're doing native cloud development. You know, probably the most important things for developers is just accessibility of all these pieces, of course it's driven by open source, but you know if you want to learn these technologies if you want to participate and experiment with these technologies, they've never been more available than they actually are today. >> Vellante: So if I may, so Tanmay is a good example of a cognitive developer >> Absolutely. >> He's all cloud native, he's all cognitive, >> Nice shout out from the CEO today >> Yeah. >> He's also an algoithmist, you know self declared algorithmist, >> I can't even say that, >> Okay so here's Tanmay, he's never going to know anything else, right? But now, of you're a sort of mainstream developer, what do you do, you know? Where do you get the skills, what do you recommend that that individual does, and how do they get up the ramp? >> So you know, lots of times as you know the developer's learnings is not like kind of a linear pattern, right? They go to blogs basically they go and pull basic a library for them to >> Vellante: They figure it out. >> Along those lines, they go to a meet up or a hack from that stand point that's based on cognitive development and you know, so they should just go about what they normally do kind of along those lines, and then you know I think basically there's am advancement because ultimately we're publishing these things called journeys, which are really kind of use cases in the cognitive based environment so as an example, we might publish a journey on a cognitive retail chat bot, and it will combine a variety of these micro services that Watson's actually built on but give them exploration as to how they use the chat bot, how they use a service called discovery, and how they use persistence basically so that essentially they can learn from the data that they actually have and then ultimately if what they want to do is get deeper into it, there's organizations that we partner with where we give them cognitive curricullum that allows them to experience these pieces like top coder you can go on and do a cognitive challenge, right on top coder or you can go to a a cognitive course designed by galvanized one of our partners in relation to skills development. >> So that's interesting about that journey, so when you think about big data we talked about big data before, the sort of point at which at a company like IBM would engage in that journey is somebody who's exploring and maybe kicking the tires a little bit or somebody at a data warehouse that was like killing them, right? Where is, obviously there's a part of that in the cognitive world which is experimental >> Tajeda: Yep >> Is there a sort of analog to the data warehouse sort of disaffection if you will. >> Yeah, you know one of the things that we spend a lot of time on is that every organization that's going to build a cognitive system is looking for cognitive developers and data scientists, you know so essentially, >> Furrier: It's across all industries by the way, >> Absolutely >> Cyber securities to, >> Absolutely so you know, one of the key pieces is what kind of tools do you actually give that data scientist, to mess around with that data set, we provide something called a data science experience, and the idea there is essentially how do you give them an environment that allows them essentially to look into the data very quickly actually have these sets, and really kind of explore the data in a way that they never were capable of actually doing that, you know, those are the types of things that we're actually trying to that a data scientist, so that you can bridge over if you were a data engineer, or you're a business analyst, and you're looking to actually get into data science, you can actually play with some of these big data sets and actually explore what things you can do. >> Willie, I couldn't agree with you more on the whole, how developers learn it's really not a course ware online and the fiscal classroom, maybe they're offering it in college but, it's the practitional world of non linear learning through experience and these journeys are super valuable, and just for a tactical question, where do they find the journeys, or URL? >> What you'll find basically, come April first, we're going to launch a number of them, on developer.ibm.com/accelerate so they'll be focused on several different categories, number one will be just developing in the cloud cloud native, what's a journeys basically that they're kind of like common set ups that you actually need, we'll do, next one's on cognitive analytics where you pull together a set of services along those lines, and as you heard Ginny talk about, you know it's really important that a cloud have knowledge about a domain or an industry and so we'll create some journeys that are actually very industry specific, you know we announced, >> Furrier: Like they're like templates bascially, >> They are, >> People jump start it, not so much a reference implementation, >> Exactly, >> You know what I'm saying, the old days >> But you know, what it's all about is you mentioned this non linear journey that developers don't actually learn fundamentally they have a core thing that they're trying to get actually get done which is, get you help me get my stuff done faster, right? And fundamentally, when you talk about cognitive or data science, we're trying to actually deliver them tool sets or examples that do that. >> So I now got to go to the next level with that question, because it's first of all it's awesome, now how do you intersect that with community? Because now, that's super important because and you might want to take a minute to just do a plug for IBM in terms of the open source goodness you guys are doing because you guys do a great job with open source. >> Tajeda: You know we just hosted a very large, what we believe is, one of the largest open tech meet ups, right before basically InterConnect started, and we had one of the ballrooms actually full, and we talked about our new service we had Jim Basic from the Linux Foundation actually come, he stated a stat which was really interesting in open source which IBM is a large contributor to, that I think the stat that he said was Linux basically has a project now, there's 10,800 new lines of code and 1,800 lines of code that are modified every day, right? >> Furrier: Yeah, >> And that's the community. >> And that's only going to get faster, if you think about like just, the physical media like ssds, in memory, which spark the kernal, >> Vellante: The quantum, >> Linux is going evolve in a radical and killer way I mean, this is just the beginning. >> And to your point about the community, when you think about that advancement at the pace by which basically that software's actually going to move, there's not one organization that can outpace that type of community in the way they actually do it, it doesn't matter what the services actually are so, >> Well the other interesting thing is the impact on human kind, you heard Benny Hoff and Ginny talking about this morning and they were both really emphasizing machine augmented, right? But, it's like a Pac Man device, I mean there's so much human interaction that's being automated today, >> Tajeda: Yeah, abslutely, >> So, and I know IBM obviously big believer in augmentation, but it's hard to predict what things human's are going to be do, be able to do that machine's can't do, any insight on that? >> Yeah you know, I think, we like to use the word cognitive assisted, So when you think about it, I'll give one example, let's say for example in the medical profession, so, if you look at it, in the healthcare industry, about 90 percent of the data in there is not structured data, right? It's all unstructured data, a lot of it is images, so if you take a look at someone basically that's in oncology work taking a look at things like melanoma, the amount of time I think the data set said the amount of time he needed to watch or get trained on to look at all the new papers that were ever published, was probably three weeks basically, if he's thinking about that in a month. The amount of time that that person allocates to actually keeping up with all these particular trade journals is a few hours a week, and so he's constantly behind, this where something like a watson enabled, or a cognitive enabled type of application can help him actually keep up to date with all the new findings and research papers in his particular field, and do something like ingest millions of documents and understand them but actually apply that to his work, so you know what you find is doctors actually utilizing a cognitive assistant powered by Watson to help him do a better diagnosis. >> Will you're an advocate for the chief developer advocate for IBM, talk about for the last couple minutes we have, what's on your plan, we just saw the news yesterday, the 10 million dollar investment to get education out there and bring this cognitive developer category, kind of lift that up and, with Galvanize which we've supported some of those signature moment events with the Cube, where are you going to be out in the field, what's some of your go to market activities how you going to do this, and then talk about the patterns you've seen in the developer make up. >> Yeah, >> Just over the past year, what's changed, what's notable? >> Yeah, so you know what, you know some of the things that we're actually doing is number one, we're we're taking up very large presence in probably nine cities around the world with a very big emphasis on building on data science and cognitive developers, so you know, there's kind of the usual suspects, the San Franciscos, the New Yorks, the Tokyos, the Londons, some presence in Sao Paulo, we're doing Beijing, we recently basically announced a partnership of how we can actually get presence actually there and through that, we're looking actually to bring, basically this presence into those communities, so this idea that we help, actually put forth these journeys but in many cases actually be right in the presence of things, we have, in some cases we have some programs that we're actually spinning up that are all about essentially how we actually do things like IOT Thursdays, or Cognitive Tuesdays where they can actually see actual experts in those particular areas, and just come do office assignments, >> Furrier: Do Throwback Thursday, you hack on a mainframe >> Tajeda: That's it! (laughter) >> That's what they're actually looking at from that standpoint so, so yeah a lot of this stuff basically is just actually getting to some of those folks in a very very intimate way, and like you said actually kind of populating these folks where kind of where they are, and really what that's all about is actually getting the tools and tool sets in the communities that they find and the peer learning that they do, which is real, >> Furrier: Well we'll see you at some of the Galvanize events you guys got goin on we'll certainly see you at Dockercon we got a lot of Cube line ups, for this Spring tour, and the Fall ton of developer activity, the Cloud Native stuff is really an intersection point with big data colliding with cloud IOT and AI and this cognitive is just an accelerant, >> Tajeda: Absolutely, absolutely >> For the cloud, the perfect storm is a good opportunity. >> There's never been more available time in terms of technology, and the technology never moved as fast, >> I was just saying to Tanmay when he was on yesterday, "I wish I could be 13 again", coding is so much more fun now than it was when we were doing it. Well great to have you on Willie, >> Hey thanks very much, it was actually very good visiting with you guys. >> Great insight, insight from the chief developer advocate here at IBM, I'm John Furrier, Steve Vellante stay with us for more coverage, great interviews all day today, and tomorrow, here live in Las Vegas, we'll be right back.