>> Announcer: Live from New Orleans, it's theCube. Covering VeeamOn 2017, brought to you by Veeam. >> We're back, Mahmoud Yassin is here, he's the Data Center Manager of the National Bank of Abu Dhabi. >> Good to see you. >> Nice to meet you. >> I'm Dave Vellante with my co-host Stu Miniman, this is theCube, the leader in live tech coverage. So, welcome to theCube. >> Thank you. >> Tell us about VeeamOn, what's your experience been like so far? >> Actually it is not the first time for me, I was here in the last few years. It's a very nice experience, mix it up with all IT companies, listening to people, leaders like Cisco, VMWare, Amazon, understanding what is the technology, how the market is moving, this is a great experience, great experience. >> Tell us about what's going on in the banking industry in your world in terms of the challenges and in particular, what's happening with the need for availability and uptime. >> I think you heard about what's happening last two days about Crayon, all the mobiles of all the IT people never stopped about the people and the need for restoring and restoring the machine cause of the people hit by crime virus or malware that encrypted the whole machine and you need to restore the data. This is happening all the time, there's not only banks in there, across different sections, three four days back, UK, the whole healthcare sector was stopped due to cyber attacks so availability and security has become so tight and of course banking means money, money is a big target for cyber-criminals. So we are caring about availability much much much more than before, it's not a matter of just fulfilling the checkbox and like what we have done in many years in IT, backup was a checkbox, just a checkbox, it's not anymore , no luxury to have the backup as a checkbox anymore. >> Checkbox meaning, okay I have-- >> I'm compliant, I have backup. >> We did it, we don't know if it failed or not but we did the backup. >> We did the backup, we tick it, we have the backup, we have the backup process, everything is okay. But have you never restored, restore in time, ensure the data availability is okay. How much data for how long? Regulation became as well very tough for the financial sector so you look at countries now that are asking for 15 to 20 years of data retention. So imagine your backups you need to maintain, multimedia, media is not sufficient anymore. Which tape drives will be sufficient for 15 to 20 years? After ten years, the tape will be rotten, it will not work, it will not be readable in the machine. And the data side as well is becoming a challenge so you need to offload the data to a desk, you need to offload the data to somewhere else that you ensure your availability and you need to ensure all that you can restore this data back. >> It's interesting you know, in IT we've known ransomware as something that's been discussed for a while, but now all of your customers know what it is. >> All of the customers, every one of them. >> So does that change the role? >> It's hitting the kids in the school, it's hitting everyone. >> You know, Dave's been talking for the last year that security has been like a board level discussion. Now it's your users, how much do your end users start coming and wanting to understand how secure money is. >> A lot, a lot. >> And how does that impact your role in IT? >> A lot, actually National Bank for Abu Dhabi security is one of our label, one of the safest banks, one of the 50 safest banks, this is one of our label. And we take security, we are the first customer in the Middle East to implement the RSA talking for login for online banking. This was eight years back. >> What about, I got to ask you, I follow a little bit of the banking executives and see what they're talking about and blockchain comes up a lot. This notion of trust between two parties and so forth. Do you see that as a mega-trend, is it something that's sort of an interesting trend? I mean what're your thoughts on that? >> It is the future, this is the future. >> It's the future? >> This is the future of the money. Money will be part to part with encryption and with the mechanism to get keys. And this is, people who don't want, this is where the money is moving in. >> So what happens to-- >> Actually what blocks this from happening on a wider scale is it's still, the regulation is not enough around this area, there is not enough regulation, so good money can mix with bad money and to be untraceables, he says this is one of the things. So people are starting putting a certain regulation across to start regulating, it will take time but it will be there. >> So blockchain is interesting, banking executives saying it's the future because everybody says oh blockchain's going to disrupt the banks but what I'm hearing from you is it's both, maybe it's a threat but it's also an opportunity because right now it's all done in secret, and so there needs to be. >> It's not in secret, it's done in Swift, the only platform for exchanging money worldwide is Swift. And sooner or later this will be changing, though some people are blockers, some people are, but it will be changing and the banks will realize this, adapt to blockchain technology. There's some legal services for blockchain and sooner you'll find central banks across the whole worldwide are starting regulating the blockchain. >> Yeah, okay it's very interesting because everybody says it's such a disruptive force which it is. >> It is a disruptive force. >> But it's also an, as you say, an opportunity. Where does Veeam fit with your availability strategy? >> It is in the center of our availability strategy, >> Really? >> Veeam is, I'm running my data centers and 90% of my data center is virtualized. So Veeam is running the whole virtual world in my data center, the 10% is running on traditional backup solution, which is, still we can't get rid of because you know in banking you have a critical system that measures 20 to 80 so you have running 80% of your system in virtual but actually the core system is the 20% so this is still not virtualized. Your core banking legacy application and some other stuff, so you have still to take the back up in traditional ways. And we mix both together, we mix back up data backing up the information, back up the virtual environment, this is very important for me. >> Dave: And you have a service catalog essentially? >> Mahmoud: We have service catalog for restore. >> For your data protection services right? >> For data protection of course. >> And what, like bronze, silver, gold levels or is it more granular than that or less granular? >> We have more, actually, in discussion with business we all were trying to meet the business requirements. So the most important for business in the banking section is the availability of the communication, mailboxes, availability of the critical detail in the databases. This is the things that we are taking care of. And Veeam has done a lot of development over the time, I'm first customer for Veeam from the Middle East by the way. >> Really? >> Yes. (laughter) >> Pioneer. (laughter) >> We are pioneer, and we've done it after trying them extensively in our environment and we decided that this is the best solution this time to go for virtual environment. It was extensive evaluation done across multiple vendor and we select them. >> And did that give you a competitive advantage? >> Of course, of course. >> How so? >> The ability to restore faster, the ability to do uptime faster, the ability to recover and ensure your back up is secure. This is something very valuable. >> Some of the other customers we've spoken to today have said that the announcements were meeting some of the wishlist that they have. Anything jump out at you with the announcements made so far? Things on your list that they-- >> Actually the continuous application is a very good feature. >> In the CDP, yeah. >> Yeah. It is one of the most important features we used as a traditional application of Vim backup. Last year, to move my data center from place to place, we were hosted somewhere and we moved the data center, the whole data center. It is good, but it was taking time, so continuous application will give you the availability of all those, just divert your backup somewhere and you'll be up and running. This is a very important feature. >> Anything that is on your wishlist that they haven't gotten to yet or things that you're looking for? >> I see, I see, Veeam should more personal devices, we are talking about IoT, internet of things, bring your own devices to work, so we should go more backing up the usual details on mobiles on at least the corporate one on the corporate bubble like Citrix, like whatever good solution, whatever solution is used. You can backing up design, backup solution for this, for end users this will be a huge thing. This will be, and part of the security of the organization cause you need all those to ensure if you add device of one employee you can restore this data back and ensure this data is restorable. >> This is the pain point for you today. >> It is. >> And it's going to get worse. I'll give you the last word, things have been exciting you at the show or conversations that you've had. >> No actually the keynote speech today was amazing, especially when you're understanding the direction of big companies like Cisco, VMWare, this is what's very valuable, very valuable. >> Excellent, well listen, thanks very much for coming we really appreciate it. >> Thank you. >> You're welcome. Alright, keep it right there everybody, Stu and I will be back rapid fire from VeeamOn 2017, be right back. (funky music) (tense music)

(pensive music) >> Thank you, Jenna, it's great to see you guys and thank you for watching theCUBE's continuous coverage of AWS Storage Day. We're here at The Spheres, it's amazing venue. My name is Dave Vellante. I'm here with Mai-Lan Tomsen Bukovec who's Vice President of Block and Object Storage. Mai-Lan, always a pleasure to see you. Thanks for coming on. >> Nice to see you, Dave. >> It's pretty crazy, you know, this is kind of a hybrid event. We were in Barcelona a while ago, big hybrid event. And now it's, you know, it's hard to tell. It's almost like day-to-day what's happening with COVID and some things are permanent. I think a lot of things are becoming permanent. What are you seeing out there in terms of when you talk to customers, how are they thinking about their business, building resiliency and agility into their business in the context of COVID and beyond? >> Well, Dave, I think what we've learned today is that this is a new normal. These fluctuations that companies are having and supply and demand, in all industries all over the world. That's the new normal. And that has what, is what has driven so much more adoption of cloud in the last 12 to 18 months. And we're going to continue to see that rapid migration to the cloud because companies now know that in the course of days and months, you're, the whole world of your expectations of where your business is going and where, what your customers are going to do, that can change. And that can change not just for a year, but maybe longer than that. That's the new normal. And I think companies are realizing it and our AWS customers are seeing how important it is to accelerate moving everything to the cloud, to continue to adapt to this new normal. >> So storage historically has been, I'm going to drop a box off at the loading dock and, you know, have a nice day. And then maybe the services team is involved in, in a more intimate way, but you're involved every day. So I'm curious as to what that permanence, that new normal, some people call it the new abnormal, but it's the new normal now, what does that mean for storage? >> Dave, in the course of us sitting here over the next few minutes, we're going to have dozens of deployments go out all across our AWS storage services. That means our customers that are using our file services, our transfer services, block and object services, they're all getting improvements as we sit here and talk. That is such a fundamentally different model than the one that you talked about, which is the appliance gets dropped off at the loading dock. It takes a couple months for it to get scheduled for setup and then you have to do data migration to get the data on the new appliance. Meanwhile, we're sitting here and customers storage is just improving, under the hood and in major announcements, like what we're doing today. >> So take us through the sort of, let's go back, 'cause I remember vividly when, when S3 was announced that launched this cloud era and people would, you know, they would do a lot of experimentation of, we were storing, you know, maybe gigabytes, maybe even some terabytes back then. And, and that's evolved. What are you seeing in terms of how people are using data? What are the patterns that you're seeing today? How is that different than maybe 10 years ago? >> I think what's really unique about AWS is that we are the only provider that has been operating at scale for 15 years. And what that means is that we have customers of all sizes, terabytes, petabytes, exabytes, that are running their storage on AWS and running their applications using that storage. And so we have this really unique position of being able to observe and work with customers to develop what they need for storage. And it really breaks down to three main patterns. The first one is what I call the crown jewels, the crown jewels in the cloud. And that pattern is adopted by customers who are looking at the core mission of their business and they're saying to themselves, I actually can't scale this core mission on on-premises. And they're choosing to go to the cloud on the most important thing that their business does because they must, they have to. And so, a great example of that is FINRA, the regulatory body of the US stock exchanges, where, you know, a number of years ago, they took a look at all the data silos that were popping up across their data centers. They were looking at the rate of stock transactions going up and they're saying, we just can't keep up. Not if we want to follow the mission of being the watchdog for consumers, for transactions, for stock transactions. And so they moved that crown jewel of their application to AWS. And what's really interesting Dave, is, as you know, 'cause you've talked to many different companies, it's not technology that stops people from moving to the cloud as quick as they want to, it's culture, it's people, it's processes, it's how businesses work. And when you move the crown jewels into the cloud, you are accelerating that cultural change and that's certainly what FINRA saw. Second thing we see, is where a company will pick a few cloud pilots. We'll take a couple of applications, maybe one or a several across the organization and they'll move that as sort of a reference implementation to the cloud. And then the goal is to try to get the people who did that to generalize all the learning across the company. That is actually a really slow way to change culture. Because, as many of us know, in large organizations, you know, you have, you have some resistance to other organizations changing culture. And so that cloud pilot, while it seems like it would work, it seems logical, it's actually counter-productive to a lot of companies that want to move quickly to the cloud. And the third example is what I think of as new applications or cloud first, net new. And that pattern is where a company or a startup says all new technology initiatives are on the cloud. And we see that for companies like McDonald's, which has transformed their drive up experience by dynamically looking at location orders and providing recommendations. And we see it for the Digital Athlete, which is what the NFL has put together to dynamically take data sources and build these models that help them programmatically simulate risks to player health and put in place some ways to predict and prevent that. But those are the three patterns that we see so many customers falling into depending on what their business wants. >> I like that term, Digital Athlete, my business partner, John Furrier, coined the term tech athlete, you know, years ago on theCUBE. That third pattern seems to me, because you're right, you almost have to shock the system. If you just put your toe in the water, it's going to take too long. But it seems like that third pattern really actually de-risks it in a lot of cases, it's so it's said, people, who's going to argue, oh, the new stuff should be in the cloud. And so, that seems to me to be a very sensible way to approach that, that blocker, if you will, what are your thoughts on that? >> I think you're right, Dave. I think what it does is it allows a company to be able to see the ideas and the technology and the cultural change of cloud in different parts of the organization. And so rather than having a, one group that's supposed to generalize it across an organization, you get it decentralized and adopted by different groups and the culture change just goes faster. >> So you, you bring up decentralization and there's a, there's an emerging trend referred to as a data mesh. It was, it was coined, the term coined by Zhamak Dehghani, a very thought-provoking individual. And the concept is basically the, you know, data is decentralized, and yet we have this tendency to sort of shove it all into, you know, one box or one container, or you could say one cloud, well, the cloud is expanding, it's the cloud is, is decentralizing in many ways. So how do you see data mesh fitting in to those patterns? >> We have customers today that are taking the data mesh architectures and implementing them with AWS services. And Dave, I want to go back to the start of Amazon, when Amazon first began, we grew because the Amazon technologies were built in microservices. Fundamentally, a data mesh is about separation or abstraction of what individual components do. And so if I look at data mesh, really, you're talking about two things, you're talking about separating the data storage and the characteristics of data from the data services that interact and operate on that storage. And with data mesh, it's all about making sure that the businesses, the decentralized business model can work with that data. Now our AWS customers are putting their storage in a centralized place because it's easier to track, it's easier to view compliance and it's easier to predict growth and control costs. But, we started with building blocks and we deliberately built our storage services separate from our data services. So we have data services like Lake Formation and Glue. We have a number of these data services that our customers are using to build that customized data mesh on top of that centralized storage. So really, it's about at the end of the day, speed, it's about innovation. It's about making sure that you can decentralize and separate your data services from your storage so businesses can go faster. >> But that centralized storage is logically centralized. It might not be physically centralized, I mean, we put storage all over the world, >> Mai-Lan: That's correct. >> right? But, but we, to the developer, it looks like it's in one place. >> Mai-Lan: That's right. >> Right? And so, so that's not antithetical to the concept of a data mesh. In fact, it fits in perfectly to the point you were making. I wonder if we could talk a little bit about AWS's storage strategy and it started of course, with, with S3, and that was the focus for years and now of course EBS as well. But now we're seeing, we heard from Wayne this morning, the portfolio is expanding. The innovation is, is accelerating that flywheel that we always talk about. How would you characterize and how do you think about AWS's storage strategy per se? >> We are a dynamically and constantly evolving our AWS storage services based on what the application and the customer want. That is fundamentally what we do every day. We talked a little bit about those deployments that are happening right now, Dave. That is something, that idea of constant dynamic evolution just can't be replicated by on-premises where you buy a box and it sits in your data center for three or more years. And what's unique about us among the cloud services, is again that perspective of the 15 years where we are building applications in ways that are unique because we have more customers and we have more customers doing more things. So, you know, I've said this before. It's all about speed of innovation Dave, time and change wait for no one. And if you're a business and you're trying to transform your business and base it on a set of technologies that change rapidly, you have to use AWS services. Let's, I mean, if you look at some of the launches that we talk about today, and you think about S3's multi-region access points, that's a fundamental change for customers that want to store copies of their data in any number of different regions and get a 60% performance improvement by leveraging the technology that we've built up over, over time, leveraging the, the ability for us to route, to intelligently route a request across our network. That, and FSx for NetApp ONTAP, nobody else has these capabilities today. And it's because we are at the forefront of talking to different customers and that dynamic evolution of storage, that's the core of our strategy. >> So Andy Jassy used to say, oftentimes, AWS is misunderstood and you, you comfortable with that. So help me square this circle 'cause you talked about things you couldn't do on on-prem, and yet you mentioned the relationship with NetApp. You think, look at things like Outposts and Local Zones. So you're actually moving the cloud out to the edge, including on-prem data centers. So, so how do you think about hybrid in that context? >> For us, Dave, it always comes back to what the customer's asking for. And we were talking to customers and they were talking about their edge and what they wanted to do with it. We said, how are we going to help? And so if I just take S3 for Outposts, as an example, or EBS and Outposts, you know, we have customers like Morningstar and Morningstar wants Outposts because they are using it as a step in their journey to being on the cloud. If you take a customer like First Abu Dhabi Bank, they're using Outposts because they need data residency for their compliance requirements. And then we have other customers that are using Outposts to help, like Dish, Dish Networks, as an example, to place the storage as close as account to the applications for low latency. All of those are customer driven requirements for their architecture. For us, Dave, we think in the fullness of time, every customer and all applications are going to be on the cloud, because it makes sense and those businesses need that speed of innovation. But when we build things like our announcement today of FSx for NetApp ONTAP, we build them because customers asked us to help them with their journey to the cloud, just like we built S3 and EBS for Outposts for the same reason. >> Well, when you say over time, you're, you believe that all workloads will be on the cloud, but the cloud is, it's like the universe. I mean, it's expanding. So what's not cloud in the future? When you say on the cloud, you mean wherever you meet customers with that cloud, that includes Outposts, just the programming, it's the programmability of that model, is that correct? That's it, >> That's right. that's what you're talking about? >> In fact, our S3 and EBS Outposts customers, the way that they look at how they use Outposts, it's either as part of developing applications where they'll eventually go the cloud or taking applications that are in the cloud today in AWS regions and running them locally. And so, as you say, this definition of the cloud, you know, it, it's going to evolve over time. But the one thing that we know for sure, is that AWS storage and AWS in general is going to be there one or two steps ahead of where customers are, and deliver on what they need. >> I want to talk about block storage for a moment, if I can, you know, you guys are making some moves in that space. We heard some announcements earlier today. Some of the hardest stuff to move, whether it's cultural or maybe it's just hardened tops, maybe it's, you know, governance edicts, or those really hardcore mission critical apps and workloads, whether it's SAP stuff, Oracle, Microsoft, et cetera. You're clearly seeing that as an opportunity for your customers and in storage in some respects was a blocker previously because of whatever, latency, et cetera, then there's still some, some considerations there. How do you see those workloads eventually moving to the cloud? >> Well, they can move now. With io2 Block Express, we have the performance that those high-end applications need and it's available today. We have customers using them and they're very excited about that technology. And, you know, again, it goes back to what I just said, Dave, we had customers saying, I would like to move my highest performing applications to the cloud and this is what I need from the, from the, the storage underneath them. And that's why we built io2 Block Express and that's how we'll continue to evolve io2 Block Express. It is the first SAN technology in the cloud, but it's built on those core principles that we talked about a few minutes ago, which is dynamically evolving and capabilities that we can add on the fly and customers just get the benefit of it without the cost of migration. >> I want to ask you about, about just the storage, how you think about storage in general, because typically it's been a bucket, you know, it's a container, but it seems, I always say the next 10 years aren't going to be like the last, it seems like, you're really in the data business and you're bringing in machine intelligence, you're bringing in other database technology, this rich set of other services to apply to the data. That's now, there's a lot of data in the cloud and so we can now, whether it's build data products, build data services. So how do you think about the business in that sense? It's no longer just a place to store stuff. It's actually a place to accelerate innovation and build and monetize for your customers. How do you think about that? >> Our customers use the word foundational. Every time they talk about storage, they say for us, it's foundational, and Dave, that's because every business is a data business. Every business is making decisions now on this changing landscape in a world where the new normal means you cannot predict what's going to happen in six months, in a year. And the way that they're making those smart decisions is through data. And so they're taking the data that they have in our storage services and they're using SageMaker to build models. They're, they're using all kinds of different applications like Lake Formation and Glue to build some of the services that you're talking about around authorization and data discovery, to sit on top of the data. And they're able to leverage the data in a way that they have never been able to do before, because they have to. That's what the business world demands today, and that's what we need in the new normal. We need the flexibility and the dynamic foundational storage that we provide in AWS. >> And you think about the great data companies, those were the, you know, trillions in the market cap, their data companies, they put data at their core, but that doesn't mean they shove all the data into a centralized location. It means they have the identity access capabilities, the governance capabilities to, to enable data to be used wherever it needs to be used and, and build that future. That, exciting times we're entering here, Mai-Lan. >> We're just set the start, Dave, we're just at the start. >> Really, what ending do you think we have? So, how do you think about Amazon? It was, it's not a baby anymore. It's not even an adolescent, right? You guys are obviously major player, early adulthood, day one, day zero? (chuckles) >> Dave, we don't age ourself. I think if I look at where we're going for AWS, we are just at the start. So many companies are moving to the cloud, but we're really just at the start. And what's really exciting for us who work on AWS storage, is that when we build these storage services and these data services, we are seeing customers do things that they never thought they could do before. And it's just the beginning. >> I think the potential is unlimited. You mentioned Dish before, I mean, I see what they're doing in the cloud for Telco. I mean, Telco Transformation, that's an industry, every industry, there's a transformation scenario, a disruption scenario. Healthcare has been so reluctant for years and that's happening so quickly, I mean, COVID's certainly accelerating that. Obviously financial services have been super tech savvy, but they're looking at the Fintech saying, okay, how do we play? I mean, there isn't manufacturing with EV. >> Mai-Lan: Government. >> Government, totally. >> It's everywhere, oil and gas. >> There isn't a single industry that's not a digital industry. >> That's right. >> And there's implications for everyone. And it's not just bits and atoms anymore, the old Negroponte, although Nicholas, I think was prescient because he's, he saw this coming, it really is fundamental. Data is fundamental to every business. >> And I think you want, for all of those in different industries, you want to pick the provider where innovation and invention is in our DNA. And that is true, not just for storage, but AWS, and that is driving a lot of the changes you have today, but really what's coming in the future. >> You're right. It's the common editorial factors. It's not just the, the storage of the data. It's the ability to apply other technologies that map into your business process, that map into your organizational skill sets that drive innovation in whatever industry you're in. It's great Mai-Lan, awesome to see you. Thanks so much for coming on theCUBE. >> Great seeing you Dave, take care. >> All right, you too. And keep it right there for more action. We're going to now toss it back to Jenna, Canal and Darko in the studio. Guys, over to you. (pensive music)

>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas, it's the CUBE (light electronic music) covering Interconnect 2017. Brought to you by IBM. >> So, my first question for you is, as we digitize our worlds with business, the value chains and all the processes are changing, there's a new value equation model around digital business. What's your view on the digital business value creation equation? >> Sure, John, thank you for having me here, today, and Dave, as well. Thank you for having me. So, I think that automation in combination with cognitive computing, AI, machine learning, is really going to revolutionize the way we work, the way we interact, and it's going to create new experiences for people, experiences that we don't even know that exist in the future. They're going to be real value, and that value is not just about cost take-up, that value's going to be around innovation, that value's going to be around the combination of block chain, machine learning, ubiquitous computing, and I think that this is going to create new industries, new business models, that we could take really advantage of in many different industries. >> One of the cool things that's happening that I like in the computer science, and how society in general now is seeing cloud computing, which has been around for awhile getting full-steam ahead, big data industry evolving very rapidly, and what's kind of pulling them together in this gravity is machine learning, data, cognitive, iterative things, and AI is kind of the over-arching, you know, sizzle, if you will. So, the sci-fi aspect of AI. Everyone can relate to some sort of mental image of AI. You know, robots taking over the world, to automated things just make us smarter, augmented reality, what-not. But iterative things, and data science, that's connecting the power of the cloud with data is changing the game. So, one little change in a value equation, in a company, could change their business model. >> Absolutely. >> How do you rationalize that with your customers (laughing)? Hey, you know, full steam ahead, or slow down, it depends. What's your perspective on that? >> So, it's interesting you mention about science fiction, right, because science fiction inspired robots and automation for centuries, now. But, the reality, today, is that we are already using automation. You know, it's been used ubiquitously across production lines, manufacturing, logistics. So, we've started this journey, already, for many, many years. I think, quite rightfully, like you described in the cloud world, what we're seeing now, in automation, you're combining Artificial Intelligence, you're combining cognitive computing, and what that will do is it will create new value for companies out there, right. That new value is going to be about creating new industries, creating new data, and in the IOT space, it's going to create a new level of intelligence for us that's really going to change the experience that we could deliver. >> So, I've said this before, the greatest chess player in the world is not a machine, it's not a supercomputer, it's a combination of humans and computers. And, so to the point, we were talking off camera, machines hae always replaced humans. It's now cognitive functions are being augmented. And so, it seems like the scarce resources, the creativity to combine innovations. For decades, we've marched to the cadences of Moore's Law. >> John: Yeah. >> Right. The innovation is not coming from Moore's Law anymore. You know, whether or not it's tapering. We can argue, let's assume it is for a moment. >> Reinventions. >> So, where's the innovation coming from? Clearly the innovation curve's not slowing down. >> Dave: So, what's IBM's point of view on that innovation and where it comes from? >> So, you started by talking about robots and machines and how it's kind of changing jobs and, let's say, taken over jobs. The reality is that only a small percentage of work, five to 10%, will be fully automated in the future, because we've seen this throughout history. Technology advances in the last 20 years has created new professions. You know, 25% of the work type and profession in the last 20 years are new type of work. And John, you were mentioning about the ATM machine just a couple of minutes ago. >> Yep. >> The ATM machine actually has created a new economy. >> John: It was supposed to kill the teller. >> Yeah. >> It kind of did, but it created more jobs because more branches were opening up. >> Exactly, more branches and new ways of interacting, and new, and so on. Now, you have mobile apps, but actually you have to develop applications which you never had to do in the past before, and exactly the same with automation. We're going to have, and robotics and Internet things, combined them together, we'll create a new economy, and the value of that economy is going to be in a couple of areas. One, I think one of the fundamental changes is that our work type, the type of work we do, is going to be automated, about 30% of our work type is going to be automated in certain industries, industries which are highly tasked orientated, highly manual orientated, highly data orientated. They'll all change, that's the reality of it. But, that's also going to create a new type of work, a new profession and people will be up-skilling to that. But, our prediction is that, you know, in the next few years we're going to see between one to one and a half percent GDP increase as a result of cognitive computing and AI. >> Incremental. >> Incremental, incremental, so yes, there'll be some changes of jobs, changes in profession, but incremental, they'll be increasing, and that, for the aging population issue that we know very well, is going to really help to boost a lot of economy out there. >> That scares people, too, this whole notion of job loss and, again, we were talking about before camera. It's not so much controversial, it's more education, both educating people on what the narrative is of the future scenario. >> Exactly. >> But also, education for people to get the new skill. I mean, the stat after the stat, but it's high percentage of jobs are even created yet. So, you know, cross-disciplinary education in higher eds changing, but the skills gap is a huge issue. So, how do you talk to that point because, certainly, that's an area we heard on stage today. Mark Benioff and Ginni Rometty talking about, you know, having a societal impact, and having a mission, education, is a big one. What's your thoughts? >> Absolutely. >> I mean, so I think it starts right from the way we teach, because you can't necessarily always teach the future, but what you can do is you could prepare for the future. So, we need to start teaching our children to our graduates who start in our companies with new skills around creativity, right. High emotional intelligence. I believe that a robot is never going to be able to manage emotional intelligence, right. So, how do use more emotional intelligence? How do we provide more discipline around education? How do we provide them vital skills? >> Critical thinking. >> Critical thinking, absolutely. You know, and science, but also, these Artificial Intelligence going to age human being, you know, it's going to help us discover new remedies for problems that we have today in our society, problems that we have in healthcare, problems that we have in political systems, you know, which we are seeing now and, hopefully, provide more confidence in our system because of the data and intelligence that we see. >> So, now, I've got to throw in the augmented reality because AI is obviously kind of a concept that people are getting. It's not clear, yet, what that is. What really is AI? Well, that chapter will be written, certainly as it evolves. But, augmented reality is happening. So, IoT, you can have googles on that look at meters and get new data, that's not even there. You can do automation around getting predictive analytics around machine, industrial IoT, these kinds of things. You're seeing consumer devices having augmented reality. >> Shamayum: Yep. >> That's here, right. That's here and now. So, how do you advise your clients and customers, the big IBM customers you service, to prepare for augmented reality? Because, is there a playbook? Are they nodding their heads, are they going, "Oh!," face palm. Or, I mean, what's happening? >> So, augmented reality is here and it's here to stay. The difference between augmented reality, now, or if you looked at it, let's say, five years ago when we had Google glasses. One was hype versus reality. One was a use case, now, where actually is transformational, and it's having real impact in ROI. Like the example you gave around manufacturing, or how you use it in logistics, when you are looking at airlines, and how you look at training people. Now you could train people using augmented reality and speed the level of adoption required or the time required to skill people. And then in the past, we never had that. Is there a playbook? I don't think there is a playbook, John, because I think the use cases are so diverse. But I think what we really need to do is go back to fundamental of consulting. What do we look for, you know, in business problem solving? We look for problems. We analyze that problem through design thinking, or whatever methodology we use. We look up what the impact. Is it speed, quality, and cost? And, if we can answer these questions, speed, quality, and cost, and the human impact unto it, those are the factors that's going to determine what are the use case of augmented reality that's really going to transform, and have impact, in industries. >> I find it interesting, too, you mentioned that the old way of doing things, is not going to be there, but the older way of doing software was general purpose, computing, and software. Buy a shrink wrap package, load it, does some function. Now, the composability of APIs and micro services allow for common building blocks. >> Yep. >> Son ow , essentially every solution is custom. >> Shamayum: Yes. >> So, you have a diverse use case. Remember, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. So, that's how it is in the enterprise. So, that's a reality. So, with that as kind of a backdrop, what are some of the cool things that you're working on now that you can point to and say, "These are examples of the kinds of journeys customers are going through." It could be a crazy idea that's implemented or a something, a great idea. Share a story about some of the highlights, some of this new way of building apps, new way of being agile, new way of discovering value creation. >> Sure, so you're absolutely right. You know, we're moving into a world of consumable services, if I could describe it that way, API services, micro-services, pulling data from different sources, augmenting your data source, having functions that you get from your competitors, even, to augment the capability that you want and to create new business processes. And I think we'll see more and more of this, and, you know, I was speaking to a bank, even last week, and in Abu Dhabi where they're saying, "What's the future of a bank? "Do I need a processing bank? "Do I need a back office anymore? "Do I need a branch? "Can it not just be a virtual bank? "Can I not just connect to fin-tech to provide my services, "and I have the customer and own the customer?" So, I think there's an advancement in terms of thinking, now, and that thinking is possible because the possibilities are endless and we have never seen more access to technology at relatively low cost, even, than ever before, and, also, open source is making it more possible, I think. Open source has given power to the people and companies to have world-class technology, you know, combined with IBM technology to provide, you know, real great value. So... >> Oh, go ahead, please carry on. >> Just, in terms of use case. Another example is that I recently sent a use case around, "Know your customer." You know, one example was, you know, opening up accounts for high-worth customers could take months and months to make sure the security checks, and so... You may have an account, but in terms of fully transactional, it takes months. Now, using machine learning, you go and search over a million databases and look for a million different patterns and make a recommendation to your work advisor to see what kind of customer you're going to be. You know, by analyzing movies, watching four movies that you love, we could predict, by 95%, what all the movies that you're going to love in the rest of your life. Those are the use cases I've seen. I just find it fascinating. >> Netflix is doing... They're getting all the data from me. >> Yes, yes. >> An arbitraging out the back door. >> Recommending books, I mean it's getting more and more. >> I want to own my own data. That's what Ginny was saying on stage, we should own our own data. >> Yeah, and there's certainly consumers out there who want to own their data and I think there's going to be this shift where you can have digital ident in the future where you own the data and could like trading your data. So, instead of just giving your data, you could start monetizing your own data, and saying what kind of information do you want, and what kind of experience do you want? You know, how do you want to trade? Who do you want to trade with? Do you want to share the data with your family? With your friends? With your business partner? And you become the owner of data, and that certainly an area that we're seeing a movement to, but, also, it's going to help with the identity. Your identity will be known only to you, not to service providers. >> I think you're on to something, and one of the things we were just talking with Don T was, the block chain, and The Block Chain Revolution, his new book, is when you get the transactional cost of business reduced, you mentioned that virtual bank, makes total sense. Why should I spend all this money to have a company? I can reduce my transactional cost of doing business and still provide great value. >> Well, I don't know. I mean, you talk about the future's hard to predict, sometimes, but the bank in Abu Dhabi, right. I mean, you see banks, we talk to them all the time, re-imagining the banking experience, but not necessarily eliminating the physical. >> Sha: Absolutely. >> And so, you know, to me it's fascinating. Like the list of things that machines can't do, that humans can changes, seemingly, every year, whether it's climbing stairs, or even autonomous vehicles, five years ago nobody thought was... I was and IBM conference, not that long ago, five years ago, they said it's 25 years before you'll see that. Then, wow, just overnight. >> Self-starting cars is another prediction. >> So, do your clients... How much do they try to, you know, skate to the puck, which seems to be a harder endeavor versus saying, you know, "Okay, we can apply this today, "and save money, or tap a new business opportunity." >> So, you make some great points here. The first point I'd just like to elaborate a little bit more which you mentioned about the physical and the digital. >> Yeah, right. >> Which you might, in your example was the branch. What's the role of the branch if you have a fully digital bank in the future? We still need a branch. And, why do we need a branch? Because in the branch, the branch is going to be different in the future. We all hate cueing up in the branch. We all hate going to a generic person that's says, "Can I help you?" >> John: What's your account number? >> "What's your account number?" >> Exactly. >> No, I'm John. >> Come on, you should know me. >> You should know as soon as I walk in, you should know, you know, what are the three things that I'm looking for. You should know how long I've been a customer, what my family is. >> How many Twitter followers you have. If you're an influencer. (laughter) >> Exactly, exactly. And more importantly, you should know that I love speaking to an expert. I don't want to speak to a generic person. So, the future bank is going to be when you walk into your bank, you're going to sit there in a room, in a very nice room, you're going to be in a screen, you're going to talk to someone who's an expert, who knows everything about you, through video conference. You can even order a coffee that someone comes in your room. You don't feel that it's just virtual. You have some emotional connections, as well. You'll have digital printers in there. You can connect. You have a different experience and by the time you go out, your app has already been updated with the loan that you wanted or the mortgages that you wanted. And then, coming back to the point that John and I were talking about, the consumer services, well, actually I might want my loan from one bank, my mortgage from another bank, and my car account from one bank, and I should be able to trade between that. >> Dave: Right. >> So, there's that connection, whether physical or digital, and then different service providers. I think there will be a mash-up if I think of it that way. >> It's that level& of intimacy that has been lacking for so many years in that example, financial services, which it seems like cognitive can help close that gap. >> Yeah, yeah, and cognitive absolutely can because cognitive is now, the technology's here. I think it's advanced, so much is here. The use cases are amazing and you heard about the use cases in healthcare and in customer services and aging assist, which is helping people with self-application repair. So, I think the advancement is here. I mean, the possibilities are huge. We just need to connect those dots together in order to create those new use case. >> And they did model that's come out of that conversation that is domain specific data, and you guys talk about that as verticals. But, you know, that's important because you need to specialism of the data. >> Sha: That's correct. >> But you also want the horizontally scalable cloud, as well. So that's the data challenge right there. >> Absolutely, absolutely. But one thing that's going to be critical, I think, even in the future, is that industry knowledge and how you use that industry knowledge to augment your data. How do you find that, you know... Computers always give you those patterns. How do you interpret that pattern, and how do you create that new experience? That's where the human value is. >> So, you know, we talked yesterday. You're in the consulting side of the business, but 60% of IBM's business remains services. But a key value that you bring to the marketplace is the ability, at least in concept, to codify those services into software. Talk about how you're doing that, and to the degree to which you're succeeding. >> So, we started a conversation in automation. So, if I go back to that. In automation, every client is thinking about automation. Every client is experimenting with automation now, to some level. And, what we have done with our services is that we create frameworks, maturity assessments, business component modeling. So now, what we can do when we go into a bank, we go into an example bank, we could say, "Hey, Mr. Customer, I've done it "with these 30 banks. "I know what does best-in-class bank look like. "You might not, necessarily, and trying to answer your initial question, You know, what's the roadmap look like. "You may want to go over here, "but your level of maturity's here." So, how do you get to that level of maturity, your kind of aspiration, and we could help with those tools and methods and our assessment capability and strategy engagement framework that we bring with the clients. Also, we don't just look at banks. Because, if you're a bank, banks are interesting, but you may want to look at retailers. You might want to look at pharmaceutical companies. You might want to look at Starbucks and all the people that around here, what are they doing, in terms of innovation, so you can bring all the innovation on to this and look at business functions. You know, what does the best-in-class logistic look like? What is the best-in-class back off function look like outside of my industry? And that's the kind of codifying that we have the knack of solving things we can bring to the market. >> Can I even jump industries because digital allows me to actually traverse horizontally, as John was saying. >> And the threat is there. You know, the threat is live today, to be Uber-ized or be a Uber. You know, you decide. So, you are going to jump through these industries because you have now a global platform which allows you to transform your industry, and jump from one to another, and monetize what you have very, very fast, and the barrier to entry is lower than ever before, not just because of technology, but because how industry works on the consumers' demand. Shamayum, than so much for coming on. Great insight. Thanks for sharing. Love that content. Really good insight. >> Pleasure. And the future's here. >> Thank you very much. The future's here, absolutely. Thank you very much. >> The future's here, now. This is the CUBE bringing you all the action, here, live in Las Vegas. Stay with us. We've got a lot more today to come, and all day tomorrow. We'll be right back. I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante. (light electronic music)