>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas, its theCUBE covering IBM Think 2018. Brought to you by IBM >> Welcome back to IBM Think 2018, you're watching theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. My name is Dave Vellante and I'm here with my co-host Peter Burris, this is day three of our coverage. Mohammad Farooq is here, he's the general manager of Brokerage Services GTS at IBM. Mohammad, great to see you again, thanks for coming back on theCUBE. >> Thank you very much, appreciate for having me here. >> You're very welcome. So, big show. All the clients come together in one big tent. >> Yes. >> What do you think? >> It's very exciting. I think we're doing some interesting things with our technology. We have learned a lot from our clients the last two years. We are working very closely with our partners because we believe not one company can do everything in this massive transformation that's underway. So, working with our partners, with our clients on new technologies to specifically accelerate enterprized option of the cloud model and that's exciting for us. >> Partnering, it seems to have new, energized momentum at IBM. I sense a change, is it palpable? I mean, how can you comment on that? >> I think partnering is critical for everybody's success because the industry itself is transforming, and one company cannot achieve all the requirements that clients are asking for, and we have our core competencies. Service Now, our VMWare, our Amazon, our Azure They have their core competencies. But IBM, as a company, is a company that enterprisers trust to move them to cloud and operate them in the cloud. So what we are doing is, to keep that goal in mind, we are saying okay, we are going to take a client from point A, which is non-cloud, to point B, which is cloud native, and in that journey, we will take everybody our partners helped to get there. So that's why, based on client request, we are leveraging our partners, and it has a special meaning for us because it makes our clients successful. >> OK, so, describe exactly what brokerage services does. Is it your job to get people to the cloud? But talk more about that; add some color please. >> I think the brokerage has evolved since I last talked to you a year ago. At this conference, right? A lot of people think brokerage is arbitrage. >> Peter: Is what? >> Arbitrage of services from one provider to the other, that's the limited definition of brokerage. So what we're really calling it is Hybrid Cloud Management System, not brokerage. Brokerage is one part of it. So the Hybrid Cloud Management System is the go-forward strategy of IBM in 2019, 2018 and beyond. Which includes three, four components. One is: how do you bring the entire cloud ecosystem into a federated management maodel? Which includes: business management of IT and cloud, our hybrid. Consumption: a standard consumption model through one point of access to all clouds, internal or external. Third: delivery, how do we deliver services, either automated or workflow? Bi-model, as Gartner calls it, in one model. And four: operations management across public, private, hybrid, internal or external. >> Let me make sure I got this, so, business services in the sense of running IT more like a business, >> Mohammad: Right! >> A consumption model in terms of presenting this in a way that's simple and easy for a business-person to use, a delivery model, in the sense that it's very simple and straightforward and fast to deliver, and then an operations model which makes sure that everything above it works well. >> Yes, and the consumers, in this case, are developers, IT operations people, and DevApp teams, and from a delivery perspective, it is automated or people-work-flow, so you support both, so bringing this federated model together is a very complex undertaking, and IBM services is the strategic partner clients are asking to take them on this journey. Hey, bring this together for us. It's very complex at all layers. It's not a simple thing, and in that bringing it together, partners have a big role to play. Azure, Amazon, Google, Service Now, VMWare, Cisco, they all have critical pieces of it that make this model work, and clients have made choices. Clients already have VMWare. Clients already have Service Now Clients already have Amazon, Azure. But there is no system that brings it together and manages it on an ongoing basis, and the important thing is, the clouds keep changing very fast, and keeping up with the clouds, leveraging the power of the clouds to the right teams within the enterprise to deliver new digital apps, to delivery revenue, is what IBM is enabling our clients to do. >> So wikibot has actually done a fair amount of research around what we call the cloud operating model, we call the Digital Business Platform. AWS has an example of that, as you mention. They all have their approaches to handle those four things that you mentioned. >> Mohammad: Yes! >> But when you get to a customer, who also has to marry across these clouds, sustain some on-premises assets, perhaps some near-premises assets within the cost-service provider, it's what you're trying to do is ensure that they have their operating model that is the appropriate mix of all these different capabilities for their business, we got that right? >> Exactly, you got it. So what we said was every cloud provider, internal or external, or even hosting cloud providers, IBM is a hosting cloud provider. >> Right! >> With the adjustment of business. They had their own model across those four things: Business, consumption, delivery, operations. Now, we cannot operate four silos. Every enterprise is using Amazon, every enterprise has Google, every enterprise has VMWare, every enterprise has IBM. We cannot have four models. >> Dave: Right! >> So what we have done is we have created one standard consistent target operating model. We have integrated all these offerings within that so clients don't have to do it. We offer services to create extensions to it based on variations clients might have, and then operate it as a service for them, so that their path to cloud gets accelerated, and they start leveraging the power of what's good today inside the data centers, and what's available outside in public clouds, in a very secure way. So that is the business IBM is in moving forward, which we are calling it, we are transforming our offerings portfolio, we are calling it: Hybrid Cloud Services Business >> OK so you've got this hybrid operating model, IT operating model that you're envisioning, you're letting the cloud partners do what they do best, >> Mohammad: Right. >> Including your IBM cloud partners, >> Mohammad: Including our operating partners, >> And then you guys are bringing it all together in a framework, in an operating model, That actually can drive business value. >> Exactly, that's what we're doing. We are giving them ease of access from one place, choice of delivery platform, choice of delivery models from one place. Single visibility into how they're running, performing, help, and diagnostics from one place, and then, one billing and payment model, not four. So when I pay monthly bills, I pay based on usage, qualification of that usage across everybody, and then reconciling with my ERP systems, and making the payments. So the CFO has a standard way to manage payments. So that's what IBM is bringing to the table. >> How far could you take this? Could you take this into my SAS portfolio as well, Or is that sort of next step? >> What right now we are doing InfoSecure as a service and platform as a service. Our goal is in '18 and '19 to move to software as a service, because software as a service is much easier because we don't own the infrastructure or the service, we just consume it as electricity, utility. So that we discover the usage of SAS and meter it for usage against our billing model that we have to as B2B contract between a SAS provider and an enterprise and then make sure we've done the license management right. So there's companies like Flexera and others who do that For SAS management there's companies like Skyhigh Networks that recently got acquired, we're bringing those companies in to give us that component. >> But doing that level of brokering amongst the different services, while very useful, valuable, especially if you can provide greater visibility in the cost, because this becomes an increasing feature of COGs in a digital business, right? You still got to do a lot about the people stuff. A lot of folks are focused on ITIL, ITSM, automation at that level. Describe how you'll work with an IT organization and a business to evolve its underlying principals for how the operating model is going to work. >> I think that's probably a more difficult challenge than the technology itself, and if you look at our business, it was a people, it is a people business with GTS. We're more than 90,000 to 100,000 employees babysitting infrastructure for major fortune 500 corporations, and InfoSecure is more into software-defined, that means that we are moving from configuration skills to programming skills, where your programming API is in Amazon to provision infrastructure and deploy, so the skillsets have to definitely move. They have to move to infrastructure teams now have to become programming teams, which they have not been used to. They used to go to VMWare, vSphere, vCenter and configure VMs and deploy VMs. Now they have the right programs to drive and provision infrastructure, so that's one part of it. Second, the process was you do development and then your throw it over to operations, and they'll go configure and deploy production. Now, when you're programming infrastructure. Second, you're doing it in collaboration with developers, because developers are defining their own infrastructure in the cloud. So the process is different. The skills are different, and the process you are to operate in is not the same, it's different. Third, the technologies are different that you work with. So there is change at all levels and what GTS has done is we have put a massive goal in place to re-scale our workforce to take our people and re-scale them in the new process, the new technology and the new roles and that's a very big challenge I think the industry is facing: we don't have enough people who know this. A lot of these people are in Netflix, Facebook, Google, in Silicon Valley, and now, it takes time, it has happened before. The training and the transfer of knowledge, all of that is going on right now. So right now we have a crunch, And the second thing that is becoming more difficult is there's a lot of data coming out of these systems. The volume of data is unbelievable. Like if you look at Splunk and other tools and platforms, they collect a lot of log data. So all these cloud platforms spit out a lot of machine data. Humans cannot comprehend that. It's incomprehensible. So we need machine learning skills and data science skills to understand how these systems are performing. >> Peter: And tools. >> And tools. So we need the AI skills, the data science skills, in addition to the infrastructure design architecture and programming skills. So we really have a challenge on our hands as an industry to kind of effectively build the next-gen management systems. >> Right and we've got, so we've got all these clouds, the ascendancy of clouds has brought cloud creep, >> Mohammad: Right. >> All these bespoke tools along with them, all these different operating models. You're clearly solving a problem there. What's the go-to-market model with all these partners that you've mentioned? You've got cloud, you got PRAM, eventually SAS, >> Yeah, so our cloud go-to-market is three ways We see clients adopting cloud in three ways. One is digital initiatives: They want to go build new IOD apps or mobile apps and they want to put it in production that drive revenue, okay? So we are creating offerings around the DevApps model. We'll say like look, the biggest challenge that our folks have is how to put a app that you build in production. I built a new feature, how can I get it to my client as soon as possible, in a secure way, that can scale and perform, that is the biggest problem with app developers. I can develop anywhere, it's all open-source. I'm not living in, and I can spin up a VM or a container in Amazon and develop a service in two days. But to put it in production, it takes a long time. How can we make offerings that accelerate that? Through our DevApp CICD automation process I was talking about, that's our revenue play. So our go-to-market is driven by how we can generate revenue for our clients through agile offerings for DevApps, that's one go-to-market. Second go-to-market is CIOs are saying like look, I'm spending a lot of money managing my current infrasatructure and my current app portfolio, and I can take money out of the system through cost reductions, so what is my migration and modernization path for my existing portfolio? >> Well, slightly differently, I used to get I used to get my eight to nine percent that I gave back to the business every year simply by following hardware price performance. >> Mohammad: That's exactly right. >> That's not available in the same way. I have to do it through process and automation. >> All automation right? So then we have to look at everything. What part of the portfolio can move to Amazon or cannot? What other refactoring I have to do to microservices and containers to build portability to move to the cloud? So we have created a migration, a global migration practice at IBM in a factory in India and in the US where we have created offerings to work with the CIO right from planning, cost planning, portfolio planning, application design planning and design review, to lift-and-shift, to deploy in cloud and operate it. So we have a series of offerings that track the life-cycle of migration. So that's our second go-to-market path. Our third go-to-market path is: Hey, my business per units are shadow IT; they're already in the cloud, now my CEO is telling me: Hey mister CIO, you make sure they all work and they're secure, and there's no loss in data. And this infrastructure is now in cloud and on-prem. So how do I provide, manage service, to manage your infrastructure and workloads in the cloud? IBM has offerings that will directly provide you multi-cloud management as managed service. So we are taking three client journeys and we are building go-to-market offerings around those three, and we have built, we have re-designed IBM portfolio to operate on those lines. >> Do the digital initiatives, chief digital officer, obviously, target their CIO for the portfolio rationalization optimization and line of business through the shadow IT? >> Right! >> And you bring those together with a constant consistent operating model? >> Exactly, so all three journeys lead to one operating model. >> Dave: Yeah! >> But going back to what Dave said, and we have time for just a little bit more, is, is, no offense, there's no way you can do it all by yourself. >> Mohammad: You cannot. >> So what are some of the core, what are some of the most important partnerships that users need to be looking to? >> I think we have defined what's goal to us. Not always go back to, if you are clearly going to market, what is the core competency of IBM? Okay, with (mumbles) we're going to service this company for a long time, right? We made sure we are, we bring the complexity and control and we manage the complexity; that's our core business. We had mainframe business, we had software business, and a very profitable software business. So we've done all three, hardware, software, and services. As we go forward, cloud services, cloud managed services, our IBM services, is a core competency for us, which is planning, design, managed services, and services integration, to bring these tool sets together from different partners, and operationalizing it, and babysitting it and offering it as a service. So services business is our core offering. Now in the software space, which is the management software, which is service now, (mumbles) Cisco, there there is many layers to it, as I talked about the four things: consumption, operations management, business management, >> And service delivery >> And service delivery. And in service delivery we have three choices: we have VMWare, we have Microsoft and we have IBM. We have stitched it together in a federated framework. The stitching together is our core competence. Okay, Operations management. We have created a federated data lake because data will drive everything going forward. So we own the data lake as our core competency and Watson driving intelligence. But some of the monitoring tools like AppDynamics, New Relic, Splunk, that collect the data, those are our partners. We're integrating that into our Watson framework. So we're looking at core versus non-core in all four layers, and wherever there's a overlap, we're creating unique vertical go-to-market strategies. Here, for this segment, we overlap with you, we agree to compete, to your clients you can lead with that, for our clients we'll lead with ours, so we agree to disagree, but we are going to stick to the target operating model, so that our clients are successful. So there's no confusion we are creating in their minds. So its a very complex dance at this point. >> But you laid it out and it's coherent. >> Right. >> It's got to start there. >> The most important thing is we need to tell our clients what is our core, and what is the core we're going to stand behind? And that core delivers them bottom-line value to move from point A to point B and be successful in the cloud. >> Well Mohammad, I think you've defined those swim lanes, you obviously trust and you've got the trust of your partners, trust of your customers. Like you say, you agree to compete where it makes sense, and you bring core competency and value to differentiate from your competition, so, >> Right. >> Dave: Congratulations on laying that out. We really appreciate you coming on theCUBE. >> Thank you very much. Appreciate it. >> You're welcome. All right, keep it right there everybody, we'll be back with our next guest. You're watching theCUBE live from Think 2018, we'll be right back. >> Mohammad: Thank you very much. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE, covering InterConnect 2017, brought to you by IBM. >> Welcome back to InterConnect 2017 in Las Vegas. We're here at the Mandalay Bay hotel. This place is packed. We're right by the escalators, jamming all day, roughly 20,000 people here. Mohammed Farooq is with me. He's the GM of the cloud brokerage services under the GTS division of IBM. Mohammed, thanks very much for coming on theCUBE. >> Thank you very much, I appreciate for having me here. >> You're welcome. We were talking, having a great conversation off camera about your history, coming over from India, getting an education in Oklahoma, doing startups, selling companies and ultimately ending up at IBM. Let's start where you are today. Your role as GM of brokerage, cloud brokerage services. What does that entail? What does that mean, cloud brokerage services? >> Two things here, right? My role at IBM is one part of the question and what is cloud brokerage is the second part. I'll start with cloud brokerage. Cloud brokerage is the concept that has emerged in the last five years where as cloud services became one of the choices for consuming IT, the role of enterprise IT had to change from being a manager of technology to brokering what services businesses use either from internal IT or from external cloud providers. The CIOs and ITO organization had to take on the role of a broker. To play, effectively to play the role of IT broker, you need to really change the current IT model, which is people process technology. That had to be automated into a new platform that gave birth to the new requirement that you need a broker via technology in a platform where you can connect demand to supply. Demand can come from any business unit, either for infrastructure or applications or managed services, and you can connect it to the right supplier, just like manufacturing, just in time. The CIO would optimize the demand and supply and make sure the right services are available to be pulled at the right time for the right user. This is what Amazon has done. This is was Azure is doing. This is what SoftLayer has done. Give access to IT services on demand. But can you aggregate that and provide a standard consumption operating model for the enterprise? That is the new broker role and the broker's platform from IBM basically enables that role for the enterprise. >> Is that software? Is that an abstraction layer, a manger of managers, or is it people in process? >> It is both. It is an abstraction layer that connects to all cloud providers, internal or external. It has automated new processors for consumption, service management and governance, and it creates new roles in the enterprise for IT organizations and business users. It's a complete rethink of how IT operates, but importantly, it connects to the current processors. That's where you can run hybrid IT. You can connect to service now, to the current i2 processors in the enterprise. You can connect to the current governance dashboards and you can connect to the current data centers. We do have current applications on. It connects to the current and it connects to the new world of automated self-service and brings it together. >> So, you go back 20, 25 years, this business that you're in now was a break-fix business. It's totally transformed. Talk about the CIO. What's on his or her mind today? What should they be focused on? >> I think the CIO's role changes every two to three years. The areas of focus changes. Previously, they were in the business of building applications and managing it and managing the infrastructure. Then the packaged applications came, SAP Oracle. Then they were in the business of implementing. Then they started building web applications again for awhile and managing it. Now we have SAS, software as a service, so you can just rent an application. You have a pass. You don't have to build a bigger web. You can rent it. You have infrastructure, you can rent it. Excuse me. The CIO's role now, the CIO's role now is how do I govern it? That's the priority. I don't have to go build it. I need to govern what I have, but effectively. Second, I need to provide access to services that my business needs, and I need to do that at speed. Third, I need to be able to manage it security wise, compliance wise, whether the data is staying in the right places. It's not being exposed because data breach is a big issue. My infrastructure doesn't have holes for security. It can scale. So the concerns of the CIO are now different. The risks are different and that's a new role the broker is taking on. The most important role for the CIO right now is give me visibility into where my stuff is. It's in Amazon, Azure, SoftLayer. I've lost control of it. Tell me where it is and it's very complex, simplify this for me. >> It's interesting to hear you, Mohammed, talk about the CIO used to develop apps and then commercial, off-the-shelf applications came and then the web apps, they started developing apps again, et cetera, that progression. Now there's SAS. I wonder if I can get your comment on this. The other sort of trend that we see, we talk about it all the time, is that the, the companies talk about digital transformation all the time, part of that digital transformation is becoming SAS companies. Every company's becoming a SAS company. What's the role of a CIO in this new-- I think Benioff said it. There'll be more SAS companies for non-tech companies than tech companies. What's the role of a CIO in that world? >> If you look at it, the differentiation that a corporation has today is the digital experiences it requires either on the supply chain side or it's customers. Those applications are custom SAS applications that they're building. The CIO's role is to make sure it becomes the operator of SAS apps. Right? >> Interviewer: Whether internal-- >> Internal or external. So if his business units develop custom SAS apps, either mobile apps or social media apps or analytics apps, those apps should be available and running and scalable in the cloud 24 seven. Basically, he becomes a SAS operator. When you're a SAS operator, you're also a governor. Industry is calling it hybrid cloud, many clouds, multi-clouds and the role of the CIO is to operate them and make sure they're governed. Third, that it's business get access to the right services at the right time because that time is very critical. The connected stakes of an operator and governor is real-time access to services, continuous innovation and speed, and control. >> This is a huge skilling issue for CIOs. Is it not? The skills transformation, you're going from provisioning LUNs to being a cloud broker. How's that going for your clients and how are you helping? >> That's where IBM comes in. IBM is saying for us to play a role in a digital world we have to change the way our relationship work with our customers. So if the CIO is becoming a broker, then what is my relationship with a cloud broker in the enterprise? As adoption is stating now, in the beginning, there's no skillset in the enterprise to operate this model. IBM has developed the technology and the skills and telling the CIO we can build this and operate it for you. And when you are assured, we can transfer this to you. It's a build, operate, transform relationship that we are building so that the CIOs in Fortune 500 can strategically partner with IBM and take this journey together. The role of a broker will be different in every enterprise, customized to that enterprise based on it's priorities. IBM is basically redefining the experience and the relationship to it's customers. In turn, we are enabling our customers to transform faster, develop value to it's business faster and become digital faster. >> Let's talk about IBM's business GTS specifically. I said off camera and I'll say it again, many people may not realize 60% of IBM's business is still services, combined GTS and the consulting services, about 30% is software, but only about 10% is hardware these days, including the operating systems. It's quite a transformation that Ginni has effected. I certainly remember the days of John Akers when IBM was splitting apart and trying to focus on different parts of the industry and Gertsner said no, single point of contact for the customer, we will become a global service provider, very successful strategy. Now we're entering this cognitive age. What's the strategy, specifically with regard to GTS? Are you trying to codify that deep expertise and put into software, like that abstraction layer we talked about? It is sort of a hybrid model? I wonder if you could summarize. >> Two things. What was true when Lou Gertsner said we want to provide a single point of contact and we're going to put this together, that was systems integration business. We will take all the piece parts for the customer and we will take the responsibility to deliver it reliably and make sure it's available and it's performing. The large corporations will depend on us to run their enterprise IT systems. Fast forward 2017, we are now a service integration business. We are integrating services from cloud providers, either internal or external. We're still playing the same role. We are the single point of consumption and integration and delivery for the new supply chain. The supply chain now is 100 times more fragmented than it was before. >> Interviewer: It's way more complex. >> It's more complex. >> Yeah, this is a huge opportunity. >> This is the biggest opportunity, again, for IBM and we are practically going after that opportunity. Hey, our role is the same. We are the single point of consumption and delivery and governance for our service integration and service delivery. That's how IBM is defining it's role, again, in the services era from a systems era. Second, how does it impact our revenue? We have a massive opportunity, every dollar spent on cloud services, customers have to spend money on managing it, integrating it, operating it and enhancing it. We are building offerings that provide value on top of the cloud providers in all these areas and we manage it. We see significant revenue opportunities. The way you distributed the revenue structure of IBM, we see a 10x opportunity for us doing that. >> Well, so there was a while where people thought that, that to the extent that you could automate, it would eat into the services business. That's not happening you're saying. >> Right, so two things are happening, right? That is happening, but we see a tremendous opportunity there for IBM because IBM has invested significantly in automation and big data software and cognitive. Basically, what we're saying is, yes our core business is getting commoditized, our basic business, but we are adding higher value at your services in software. We are becoming a software plus services business, practically. From a software side, on GTS, we will drive higher margin revenues and differentiation in higher value added services that are digital. We'll complement that with our services business that can scale at volume. In effect, we are creating a hybrid business model for the software plus services era for IBM. >> You're becoming a software company like everybody else. >> Mohammed: Yes. >> Right? >> Right. And IBM has, IBM has seen it and IBM has responded to it. IBM is invested in it, so we are building the ideas of service platform. We have invested in it. We're delivering to the market. We are re-skilling our workforce and we are creating a superior method of delivery for the cognitive era using a cognitive technology services delivery platform. >> You actually have a, as a service component of software in your PNL, is that right? >> Mohammed: Exactly. >> And that's the growing part of your business? >> Mohammed: We're tracking that line item as software as a service. >> We have to break, but I just want to spend a minute on your personal story. You came from India. You were highly educated, both in India and in this country, and now you're a senior executive at IBM. Quick story about your journey 'cause I love it. >> My journey started in India. I was always fascinated with technology in the United States because when I grew up, the United States was the country that put the man on the moon. We always looked at, I always looked at the United States as, as the pioneer in technology and I wanted to see how I could learn from it. How could I professionally grow from it? I did not know how, but a life is a journey. It got me to Oklahoma on a scholarship from a Master's program in operations research and computer science and then an MBA in finance. I move to Austin looking for a job, from Oklahoma. I worked for the government, the governor's office for a while, almost three years and then in the dotcom wave, I wanted to be in giving birth to new technology. I joined a startup in Austin that got acquired by Commerce One. From there, the journey took me to working with SAP, to building their middleware platform and then brought me back to Austin as a CTO for Texas again where I worked very closely with IBM for managing the state's data centers and building the software platform using the soul from our client and the software portfolio from IBM. What I realized during that time is really, the nature of IT services, consumption and delivery will change with cloud and it needs a new operating model of CIOs and CTOs. I created a company by CIOs for CIOs of how they would operate in a new utility model of it's combined cutbacks and outbacks and it's unified consumption across a very diverse supply chain. >> This is 2007 timeframe, right? >> Mohammed: 2007 timeframe. >> Just before the downturn. Perfect timing. >> Right, so leverage the tailwinds of cloud to build an operating model for hybrid, which is not being called hybrid, but was really a consumption centric model and a supply chain model from manufacturing that I learned at Commerce One and SAP. I said the supply chain concepts are very true for IT now because every unit within the supply chain is a service. >> The vision was to transform IT consumption. >> To transform IT consumption, delivery and governance in the enterprise. That led to Gravitant and the brokerage platform that IBM acquired in 2015. Currently my role at IBM is to drive this transformation into the enterprise and in turn, transform the delivery model for GTS. >> Well that's where we started. We'll have to leave it there, Mohammed. Thanks very much for coming on theCUBE and sharing your story. >> Mohammed: Thanks very much. It's a pleasure to meet you today. >> Okay, keep it right there, buddy. We'll be back with our next guest right after this short break. It's theCUBE. We're live from InterConnect.

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering InterConnect 2017. Brought to you by IBM. >> Okay, welcome back everyone, we are live here at the Mandalay Bay for exclusive CUBE three-day coverage of IBM InterConnect 2017, I'm John Furrier with my co-host, Dave Vellante for all three days, we're on day three, winding down, great show, our next guest is Justin Youngblood, VP of Hybrid Cloud Management with IBM, welcome to theCUBE. >> Thank you for having me. >> Great to have you on, because a lot of the talk, obviously, cloud, we could blockchain, but a lot of under-the-hood production workload stuff still needs to manage with all this stuff. You guys had an announcement on day one on the cloud automation management. Big part of the keynote, so it was kind of a primetime spot. Can you share us, well, why'd you get that great slot, how did you get the great slot, and what's the impact? >> Well, it really all starts with what's happening in the market, and the team's been working hard inside of IBM, we announced IBM Cloud Automation Manager, it was elevated to a tier-one offering, very strategic space for IBM in multi-cloud management. What we know is, every enterprise is now moving towards multi-cloud environments, cloud adoption is well into its maturity, and really, it's 71% of enterprises have three or more clouds, and they need to manage those clouds with a common management platform, and that's what cloud-- >> And it's big paying point too, it's one of those non-sexy items like blockchain, it's like, AI and blockchain took the headlines, but a lot of the blocking and tackling is going on in hybrid right now, so you see that orchestration piece between multi-cloud, little things like latency, security, workload migration, this is what you guys are doing, bringing the IT operations to a modern level, is that kind of the main thing? >> That's exactly right, and there're really two entry points to this, because on the one hand, it is that IT team, when you think of the modern enterprise, every modern enterprise is trying to move faster, trying to get applications out faster, trying to better engage with their customers, essentially trying to digitally transform, be the disruptor instead of the disrupted, and often, they'll look at their IT team and say, "You're not keeping up, you're too slow," so this is an automation and orchestration tool that allows the IT teams to rapidly deploy applications and infrastructure to the line of business and to their devops teams. >> Well, that's the thing, you got developers, not just IT, you got developers and the line of business who have a financial stakeholder, the top line revenue, to make it happen, and you got the movement to true private cloud happening. What's different now for you guys with automation? What's the key unique thing in this announcement that makes it go to the next level? >> Several things there, but no solution is complete from IBM these days without cognitive, and so bringing in those cognitive services and insights to analyze and help optimize the performance of workloads on any cloud environment, and also really to provide an advisor role, prescriptive guidance and recommendations on where to place workloads to optimize performance, cost, compliance right within company policy and security and regulatory environments. >> So we had Mohammed Farooq on earlier, and he was talking about cloud brokerage services, and I wonder, as you enter this market, if you're starting to see different KPIs emerge, the traditional IT operations KPIs, okay, the light on the server's on, it's uptime, planned downtime, unplanned downtime, percentage of my backups that fail, whatever it is, are there new KPIs emerging as people become cloud brokers? >> Yeah, absolutely, and Mohammed's a good friend, we're both Austenites, right, in the same building. >> Dave: Another Austenite! Austin's dominating theCUBE this week! >> We talk regularly, and really, we see a nice synergy because the cloud brokerage tool, which is brokering across the application readiness assessments of putting workloads onto the cloud and then planning and cost analysis and so on, and then the orchestration of actually deploying those workloads, so there's a nice synergy, and then, really, the third leg of the stool in my mind then plays into service management, and having the integration across all those pieces is really important, so being both cloud agnostic for multi-cloud environments, but then also having an open API, an ecosystem that you can enable and plug in with existing tools. >> Now, there was a period of time where IT was almost afraid of automation, but then this cloud thing sweeps over them, are we past that now? >> We are past that, and it's a great point, because sometimes, IT can be afraid of automation, 'cause they can think, "That's threatening my job." But we've got client success stories where we're running our cloud orchestration and hybrid cloud management solutions at massive scale, literally saving dozens of full-time equivalent hours, and what we're finding is these enterprisers saying, "Finally! "Now I can get to the innovation "and the transformative projects "that are on the strategic agenda "rather than working within manual IT processes," so it's really been a win-win. >> And when you talk about that average stat, the average enterprise has, you said three clouds? >> Three or more clouds, 71% of enterprises have three or more clouds. >> Are you excluding SaaS in that number? 'Cause-- >> Excluding SaaS, because you think about-- >> Dave: Alright, so that's infrastructure clouds, right? >> Absolutely, private clouds, public clouds, and a lot of departmental clouds or shadow IT where different cloud services are being consumed even if the IT team may not be managing it. >> So that brings the question, then, where does SaaS play, if I'm a cloud broker, and I've got these corporate edicts, and I've got these KPIs around running the business and transforming the business. How do I apply those edicts to SaaS, and can you help me do that? Is that futures, or is that just sort of a separate island? >> Yeah, it's a little bit futures right now, many times with the cloud management platforms in particular, these tools are used to automate the deployment of the infrastructure, and what's unique in our solution is the full stack application and even the day two operations, but the SaaS applications are tending to come in through a slightly different channel now, over time, I think what we're going to see is all applications, whether they're delivered by the IT team, or from the cloud, need to come into a common-- >> And should CIOs be worried about that? Because each SaaS provider has different infrastructure, some of the different availability profiles, different definitions, different SLAs, that's a whole 'nother problem area to be attacked, I guess. >> No, it is a concern, just the application sprawl, infrastructure sprawls, cloud sprawl, and this is why I think any time we're entering into a new industry, we're going to see that expanse and then back to a convergence, and honestly, I presented with Dave Bartoletti from Forrester this week, and a lot of his insights and things that he writes about and what I spoke about, and what my team did in our sessions was the need for a common management platform because of that sprawl, it's reining in the chaos. >> What are some of your favorite examples, customer case, the early wins? >> Yeah, so a great case study is that Swiss Re, large global insurance company, 60 global offices, this is a company that uses our cloud orchestrator solution with business process manager, their environment includes WebSphere, but also Microsoft Active Directory, ServiceNow, Puppet, et cetera. When they came and used our solution to, really, to automate the deployment of applications to put applications and IT as a service into a self-service catalog for their line of business and development users, at the end of the day, they have automated 45,000 processes executed each month, and literally dozens of offerings into the service catalog now. >> So the IT service management business has been evolving very rapidly, cloud has impacted that, the on-premise ratios are going to probably shift a little bit, but not radically, but then again, the use cases for public cloud are going to be dependent upon the workload, so that's kind of well-defined and discussed. The question I have for you is, from a customer standpoint, the number one competition we're having, and we're seeing, digitally at least, on Twitter and theCUBE is, what does enterprise readiness mean? So I'm an enterprise, and I want to go to the cloud. I have to then evaluate which cloud is best for which workload, but then I also have to put it through the prism of readiness, their table stakes, do they have the table stakes? >> Yeah, absolutely. >> Google's got some great machine learning, but the SLAs might not match up, or Amazon's got some great Kinesis for analytics, but I can't run my other thing on that. That's comes up a readiness problem. >> It is a readiness, and I would say, there is no single cloud that is purpose-built for all workloads, and a lot of the messages you heard here at InterConnect this week, even from Ginni Rometty herself, where IBM has the enterprise-ready cloud, and a lot of data points to back that up, including every enterprise that's going to be cognitive, and the way we think about that is cloud and cognitive are two sides of the same coin, a famous quote also from Ginni. But now we're getting into trusted networks and Hyperledger and blockchain, I don't want to get too far offtrack, but it's some-- >> But they'll all bent the change on the disruption side, on the innovation side, and honestly impact some of the blocking and tackling table stakes. >> The blocking and tackling, so that gets down to some of the regulatory concerns and other pieces, which is why we've invested now to have 51 data centers around the world, because of data locality and security concerns that companies have, so there's a lot-- >> Well, I love her line, she's the best, I got to say, very memorable, enterprise strong, made me think of the whole Boston strong thing instilled in my head, 'cause, being from that area. Enterprise strong, data first, cognitive to the core, those are the three pillars, you can unpack that in every different way, so you guys have to bring that into your offering, so I get the enterprise strong. Data first, how are you guys using the cognitive piece, specifically, in this? Data first, is that an architectural thing? And then where's the cognitive piece fit in? >> Yeah, perfect, so as we architected this solution, it was really important to us to put cognitive at the core. And really, two use cases, primarily, the first is around, as companies go deploying their applications and workloads on the cloud, every application is going to have its downtimes, its slowdowns, its outages, and that impacts end user experience, that's why it matters, it can impact revenue or NPS scores for the company. So the first is a cognitive operations capability, and you can think of that analytics moving from log analytics to quickly pinpoint the root cause of issues, up through predictive analytics to prevent an outage or an issue before it impacts your end users, ultimately into the cognitive domain, which is a true machine learning, and the capabilities that we're working on on our labs now, and that we demonstrated this week at InterConnect, we actually have a chat ops interface for the IT operator to come and interact with a cognitive system that's part of Cloud Automation Manager, and get prescriptive guidance and confidence levels-- >> Going to be a voice-activated Watson, basically, in the future. "Hey, move to cloud nine!" >> So that's the differentiation, right, if I were to push you on that, it's trust, everybody's going to say they have cloud, but like you said, it's a multi-cloud world, and it's the cognitive piece, is that right? It's really the trust and the cognitive piece. >> The cognitive piece is absolutely the number one piece of differentiation that no one has. >> Because a lot of big enterprise hardware and software companies are going to say, "You trust us," people do trust us, that's how they got to be multi billion dollar companies, but talk a little bit more about the differentiation with respect to cognitive. >> Yeah, so that's one aspect of it, and that's just cognitive operations management, and even that is that one level of value. Where I think there's additional value is getting into really letting Watson, and cognitive services, become an advisor to your business, so imagine your smartest IT operator in the business, if Watson can learn from that person, Sally or Jeff, whoever it is, learn from that, and help every IT operator in your business always make the best decision as smart as the smartest subject matter expert is in IT operations, and so this is the learning aspect of cognitive, and in that advisor role now, all of a sudden, a cognitive chat ops interface can begin to provide prescriptive guidance when there's an outage. Or imagine an application or workload going down, and Watson taking automatic action to redeploy the workload on a different cloud that has not been impacted, no interruption of service to the end user, and then come back and say, now let's pinpoint the root cause of the problem and fix that, but I've already address the main point, so-- >> And what's key about that is it's a learning machine model, so you have the domain expertise of the specific use cases, it's not trying to use some sort of vocabulary and map that on through an infrastructure environment or software environment. >> Very plain language, natural language understanding, and it's really, really powerful capability. >> Alright, so the question is, how do customers get access to this, Bluemix storage, is there IBM.com, what's the vehicles for getting this in the hands of customers? >> The easiest way is at IBM.biz/tryibmCAM, so if you go there, it'll take you right into our Bluemix service, and customers can get started right away, we have a free addition that allows customers to get started with the-- >> I know this is a tough personal question, but I'll ask anyway, no one likes to pick who their favorite child is, but what's most exciting about the product from your standpoint, looking at the success of the announcement, obviously, primetime on the keynote, congratulations, but what's the one thing that you get most excited about the product? >> Yeah, the most exciting thing is, it's all about the application. It's all about the application and digital transformation, so, certainly, the cognitive piece, and we've talked about that, but I want to highlight one other thing, which is, we in IBM are providing pre-built automation content from the infrastructure up through full-stack applications and getting into the day two operations, the monitoring, the backup, et cetera, we can orchestrate that end-to-end, unlike anyone in the industry. >> End-to-end is the key word. This is now big part of the architecture. End-to-end cross vendor. >> Exactly. >> And opensource. >> Yep. >> That's kind of the big-- >> Dave: That's what you call automation packs? >> These are the cloud automation packs, exactly, in the past, we called them patterns, we're moving to an open-pattern technology base, and we call 'em cloud automation packs. And I'll just say more about that, we're going to make them available in a marketplace, in the IBM cloud marketplace so clients can come, learn about, discover, try, and buy these automation-- >> Alright, so here's the hard question for you. Well, might be easy for you, hard for me, but as you go end-to-end, which is totally the right way, I believe, that's what everyone wants, end-to-end, but you're crossing horizontal and vertical specialty across multiple vendors, and new things coming, so now 5G comes enables autonomous vehicles, now you got smart cities, now you got Watson trying to learn new environments that I've never seen before in IT. How do you guys prepare for that, what are you guys doing to get out in front of that next wave? >> Yeah, so in the past, I think a lot of applications, and even management tools have been built as monolithic applications. With the Cloud Automation Manager, we built it from the ground up, it's cloud-native, microservices-based, just like a lot of applications out there in the enterprise are bring run, that allows us to be much more composable and flexible than we've ever been in the past, and we augment that with a set of open APIs to integrate with clients' existing tools, you heard me mention the example of integrating with ServiceNow, of course, we can integrate with UrbanCode or other devops tools, APM and monitoring tools, et cetera. >> That's the key, integration is the new table stake. >> That is the new table stake. >> Justin Youngblood, thanks for coming on theCUBE, great, congratulations on the success of your launch, and good luck with the adoption, and we'll see ya out in the marketplace, thanks for coming on theCUBE, Justin, the VP of Cloud Management inside theCUBE, more cloud action, more data action, more predictive content here on theCUBE, more great interviews coming, stay with us, I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante, we'll be right back.

(upbeat music) >> Covering InterConnect 2017, brought to you by IBM. >> Welcome back. We're here live in Las Vegas from Mandalay Bay for the IBM InterConnect 2017, this is Cube's exclusive coverage with SiliconANGLE media. I'm John Furrier, my co-host Dave Vellante here all week. We missed our kickoff this morning on day two and, because the keynotes went long with Ginni Rometty. Great star line up, you had Marc Benioff, the CEO of AT&T, and CEO of H&R Block, which I love their ad with Mad Men's guy in there. Dave let's wrap up day two. Big day, I mean traffic on the digital site, ibmgo.com was off the charts and the site just performed extremely well, excited about that. Also the keynote from the CEO of IBM, Ginni, really kind of brings us themes we've been talking about on theCUBE. I want to get your reaction to that, which is social good is now a purpose that's now becoming a generational theme, and it's not just social good in terms of equality of pay for women, which is great and of course more STEM, it's everything, it's society's global impact but also the tagline is very tight. Enterprise strong, has a Boston strong feeling to it. Enterprise strong, data first, cognitive to the core, pretty much hits their sweet spot. What did you think of her keynote presentation? >> I thought Ginni Rometty nailed it. I've always been a huge fan of hers, I first met her when she was running strategy, and you know the question you used to always get because IBM 19 quarters of straight declining revenue, how long is Ginni going to get? How long is Ginni going to get? You know when is her tenure going to be up? My answer's always been the same. (laughs) Long enough to prove that she was right. And I think, I just love her presentation today, I thought she was on, she was engaging, she's a real pro and she stressed the innovation that IBM is going through. And this was the strategy that she laid out, you know, five, six years ago and it's really coming to fruition and it was always interesting to me that she never spoke at these conferences and she didn't speak at these conferences 'cause the story was not great you know, it was coming together the big data piece or the analyst piece was not formed yet. >> So you think she didn't come to these events because the story wasn't done? >> Yeah, I think she was not-- >> That is not a fact, you believe that. >> No, this is my belief. She was not ready to showcase you know, the greatness of IBM and I said about a year ago, I said you watch this whole strategy is coming together. You are going to see a lot more of Ginni Rometty than you've seen in the past. You started to see her on CNBC much more, we saw her at the Women in Tech Conference, at the Grace Hopper Conference, we saw her at World of Watson and now we see her here at InterConnect and she's very good on stage. She's extremely engaging, I thought she was good at World of Watson, I thought she was even better today. And a couple of notable things, took a swipe at both AWS and maybe a little bit at HPE, I'm not so sure that they worry about HPE. Sam Palmisano, before he left on a Wall Street Journal interview, said "I don't worry about HPE, they don't invest in RND. "I worry about Oracle." But nonetheless, she said, it's not just a new way, cloud is not just a new way to deliver IT. Right that's the Amazon you know. >> HP. >> And certainly new way of you style by IT. >> You style by IT. >> Is Meg's line. She also took a swipe at Google basically saying, look we're not taking your data to inform some knowledge draft that we're going to take your IP and give it to the rest of the world. We're going to protect your data, we're going to protect your models. They're really making a strong statement in that regard which I think is really important for CIOs and CDOs and CEOs today. Thoughts? >> I agree. I first of all am a big fan of Ginni, I always kind of question whether she came in, I never put it together like you intuitively around her not seeing the story but you go to all the analyists thing, so I think that's legit I would say that I would buy that argument. Here's what I like. Her soundbite is enterprise strong, data first, cognitive to the core. It's kind of gimmicky, but it hits all their points. Enterprise strong is core in the conversations with customers right now. We see it in theCUBE all the time. Certainly Google Nexus was one event we saw this clearly. Having enterprise readiness is not easy and so that's a really tough code to crack. Oracle and Microsoft have cracked that code. So has IBM of the history. Amazon is getting faster to the Enterprise, some of the things they are doing. Google has no clue on the Enterprise, they're trying to do it their way. So you have kind of different dimensions. So that's the Enterprise, very hard to do, table stakes are different than having pure cloud native all the time 100%, lift and shift, rip and replace, whatever you want to call it. Data First is compelling because they have a core data strategy analytics but I thought it was interesting that they had this notion of you own your own data, which implies you're renting everything else, so if you're renting everything else, infrastructure (laughs) and facilities and reducing the cost of doing business, the only thing you really got is data, highlighted by Blockchain. So Blockchain becomes a critical announcement there. Again, that was the key announcement here at the show is Blockchain. IOT kind of a sub-text to the whole show but it's supported through the Data First. And finally Cognitive to the Core is where the AI is going to kind of be the shiny, silly marketing piece with I am Watson, I'm going to solve all your health problems. Kind of showing the futuristic aspect of that but under the hood there is machine learning, under that is a real analytics algorithms that they're going to integrate across their business whether it's a line of business in verticals, and they're going to cross pollinate data. So I think those three pillars, she is a genius (laughs) in strategy 'cause she can hit all three. What I just said is a chockfull of strategy and a chockfull execution. If they can do that then they will have a great run. >> So I go back to Palmisano's statement before Ginni took over and it was a very candid interview that he gave. And as they say, you look at when he left IBM, it was this next wave was coming like a freight train that was going to completely disrupt IBM's business, so it was, it's been a long turn around and they've done it with sort of tax rates, (laughs) stock buybacks, and all kinds of financial engineering that have held the company's stock price up, (laughs) and cash flow has been very strong and so now I really believe they're in a good position. You know to get critical for just a second, yes there's no growth but look who else isn't growing. HPE's not growing, Oracle's not growing, Tennsco's not growing, Cisco's not growing, Microsoft's not growing. The only two companies really in the cartel that are growing showing any growth really are Intel a little bit and SAP. The rest of the cartel is flat (laughs) to down. >> Well they got to get on new markets and I mean the thing is new market penetration is interesting so Blockchain could be an enabler. I think it's going to be some resistance to Blockchain, my gut tells me that but the innovative entrepreneur side of me says I love Blockchain. I would be all over Blockchain if I was an entrepreneur because that really would change the game on identity and value and all that great stuff. That's a good opportunity to take the data in. >> Well the thing I like is IBM's making bets, big bets, Blockchain, quantum computing, we'll see where that goes, cloud, clearly we could talk about, you know you said it (laughs) InterConnect two or three years ago you know SoftLayer's kind of hosting. True, but Blu makes the investments hoping-- >> SoftLayer's is not all Blu makes. >> That's right, well yeah so but any rate, the two billion dollar bet that they made on SoftLayer has allowed them to go to clients and say we have cloud. Watson, NAI, Analytics, IOT these are big bets which I think are going to pay off. You know, we'll see if quantum pays off in the year term, we'll see about Blockchain, I think a lot of the bets they've been making are going to pay off, Stark, et cetera. >> So let's talk about theCUBE interviews Dave, what got your attention? I'll start while you dig up something good from your notes. I loved Willie Tejada talked about this, they're putting in these clouds journey pieces which is not a best practice it's not a reference architecture but it's actually showing the use cases of people who are taking a cross functional journey of architecture and cloud solutions. I love the quantum computing conversation we had with believe it or not the tape person. And so from the tape whatever it was, GS. >> GS8000. >> GS8000. >> It's a storage engineering team. >> But in terms of key points, modernizing IOT relevance was a theme that popped out at me. It didn't come out directly. You start to see IOT be a proof point of operationalizing data. Let me explain, IOT right now is out there. People are focused on it because it's got real business impact, because it's either facilities, it's industrial or customer connected in some sort. That puts the pressure to operationalize that data, and I think that flushes out all the cloud washing and all the data washing, people who don't have any solutions there. So I think the operationalizing of the data with IOT is going to force people to come out with real solutions. And if you don't, you're gone, so that's, you're dead. The cultural issue is interesting. Trust as now table stakes in the equation of whether it's product trusts, operational trusts, and process trusts. That's something I saw very clearly. And of course I always get excited about DevOps and cloud native, as you know. And some of the stuff we did with data as an asset from the chief data architect. >> A couple I would add from yesterday, Indiegogo who I thought had a great case study, and then Mohammed Farooq, talking about cloud brokering. 60% of IBM's business is still services. Services is very very important. And I think that when I look at IBM's big challenge, to me, John, it's when you take that deep industry expertise that they have that competes with Accenture and ENY and Deloitte and PWC. Can you take that deep industry expertise and codify it in software and transform into a more software-oriented company? That's what IBM's doing, trying to do anyway, and challenging. To me it's all about differentiation. IBM has a substantially differentiated cloud strategy that allows them not to have to go head to head with Amazon, even though Amazon is a huge factor. And the last thing I want to say is, it's what IBM calls the clients. It's the customers. They have a logo slide, they bring up the CEOs of these companies, and it's very very impressive, almost in the same way that Amazon does at its conferences. They bring up great customers. IBM brings in the C-Suite. They're hugging Ginni. You know, it was a hug fest today. Betty up on stage. It was a pretty impressive lineup of partners and customers. >> I didn't know AT&T and IBM were that close. That was a surprise for me. And seeing the CEO of AT&T up there really tees it out. And I think AT&T's interesting, and Mobile World Congress, one of the things that we covered at that event was the over the top Telco guys got to get their act together, and that's clear that 5G and wireless over the top is going to power the sensors everywhere. So the IOT on cars, for instance, and life, is going to be a great opportunity for, but Telco has to finally get a business model. So it's interesting to see his view of digital services from a Telco standpoint. The question I have for AT&T is, are they going to be dumped pipes or are they actually going to move up the stand and add value? Interesting to see who's the master in that relationship. IBM with cognitive, or AT&T with the pipes. >> And, you know, you're in Silicon Valley so you hear all the talk from the Silicon Valley elites. "Oh well, Apple and Amazon "and Google and Facebook, "much better AI than Watson." I don't know, maybe. But IBM's messaging-- >> Yes. >> Okay, so yes, fine. But IBM's messaging and positioning in the enterprise to apply their deep industry knowledge and bring services to bear and solve real problems, and protect the data and protect the models. That is so differentiable, and that is a winning strategy. >> Yeah but Dave, everyone who's doing-- >> Despite the technical. >> Anyone who's doing serious AI attempts, first of all, this whole bastardized definition. It's really machine learning that's driving it and data. Anyone who's doing any serious direction to AI is using machine learning and writing their own code. They're doing it on their own before they go to Watson. So Watson is not super baked when it comes to AI. So what I would say is, Watson has libraries and things that could augment traditional custom-built AI as a kernel. Our 13-year-old guest Tanmay was on. He's doing his own customizing, then bring it to Watson. So I don't see Watson being a mutually exclusive, Watson or nothing else. Watson right now has a lot of things that adds to the value but it's not the Holy Grail for all things AI, in my opinion. The innovation's going to come from the outside and meet up with Watson. That to me is the formula. >> Going back to Mohammed Farooq yesterday, he made the statement, roughly, don't quote me on these numbers, I'll quote myself, for every dollar spent on technology, 10 dollars are going to be spent on services. That's a huge opportunity for IBM, and that's where they're going to make Watson work. >> If I'm IBM and Watson team, and I'm an executive there and engineering lead, I'm like, look it, what I would do is target the fusion aspect of connecting with their customers data. And I think that's what they're kind of teasing out. I don't know if they're completely saying that, but I want to bring my own machine learning to the table, or my own custom stuff, 'cause it's my solution. If Watson can connect with that and handshake with the data, then you got the governance problem solved. So I think Seth, the CDO, is kind of connecting the dots there, and I think that's still unknown, but that's the direction that I see. >> And services, it remains critical because of the complexity of IBM's portfolio, but complexity has always been the friend of services. But at the same time, IBM's going to transform its services business and become more software-like, and that is the winning formula. At the end of the day, from a financial perspective, to me it's cash flow, cash flow, cash flow. And this company is still a cash flow cow. >> So the other thing that surprised me, and this is something we can kind of end the segment on is, IBM just reorganized. So that's been reported. The games, people shift it a little bit, but it's still the same game. They kind of consolidated the messaging a little bit, but I think the proof point is that the traffic for on the digital side, for this show, is 2X World of Watson. The lines to get into keynotes yesterday and today were massive. So there's more interest in InterConnect than World of Watson. >> Well we just did. >> Amazing, isn't it? >> Well then that was a huge show, so what that means is, this is hitting an interest point. Cloud and data coming together. And again, I said it on the intro yesterday. IOT is the forcing function. That to me is bringing the big data world. We just had Strata Hadoop and R event at BigDataSV. That's not Hadoop anymore, it's data and cloud coming together. And that's going to be hitting IOT and this cognitive piece. So I think certainly it's going to accelerate at IBM. >> And IBM's bringing some outside talent. Look at Harry Green who came from Thomas Cook, Michelle Peluso. Marketing chops. They sort of shuffled the deck with some of their larger businesses. Put Arvind Krishna in charge. Brought in David Kenny from the Weather Company. Moved Bob Picciano to the cognitive systems business. So as you say, shuffle things around. Still a lot of the same players, but sometimes the organization-- >> By the way, we forgot to talk about Don Tapscott who came on, my favorite of the day. >> Another highlight. >> Blockchain Revolution, but we interviewed him. Check out his book, Blockchain can be great. Tomorrow we got a big lineup as well. We're going to have some great interviews all day, going right up to 5:30 tomorrow for day three coverage. This is theCUBE, here at the Mandalay Bay for IBM InterConnect 2017. I'm John Furrier and Dave Vellante. Stay with us, join us tomorrow, Wednesday, for our third day of exclusive coverage of IBM InterConnect 2017, thanks for watching.