(upbeat music) >> Hey, welcome back everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We are high atop San Franciscso, in the Salesforce Tower in the brand new Accenture, the Innovation Hub. It opened up, I don't know, six months ago or so. We were here for the opening. It's a really spectacular space with a really cool Cinderella stair, so if you come, make sure you check that out. We're talking about cloud and the evolution of cloud, and hybrid cloud, and clearly, two players that are right in the middle of this, helping customers get through this journey, and do these migrations are Accenture and HPE. So we're excited to have our next guest, Melissa Besse. She is the Managing Director, Intelligent Cloud and Infrastructure Strategic Partnerships, at Accenture. Melissa, welcome. >> Thanks Jeff. >> And joining us from HP is David Stone. He is the VP of Ecosystem Sales. David great to see you. >> Great, thanks for having me. >> So, let's just jump into it. The cloud discussion has taken over for the last 10 years, but it's really continuing to evolve. It was kind of this new entrance, with AWS coming on the scene, one of the great lines that Jeff Bezos talks about, is they had no competition for seven years. Nobody recognized that the bookseller, out on the left hand edge, was coming in to take their infrastructure business. But as things have moved to public cloud, now there's hybrid cloud, now all applications, or work loads, are right for public clouds, so now, all the Enterprises are trying to figure this out, they want to make their moves but it's complicated. So, first of all, let's talk about some of the vocabulary, hybrid cloud versus Multi-Cloud. What do those terms mean to you and your customers? Let's start with you, Melissa. >> Sure. So when you think of Multi-Cloud, right, we're seeing a big convergence of, I would say, a Multi-Cloud operating model, that really has to integrate across all the clouds. So, you have your public cloud providers, you have your SaaS, like Salesforce, work day, you have your PAS, right. And so when you think of Multi-Cloud, any customer is going to have a plethora, of all of these types of clouds. And really being able to manage across those, becomes critical. When you think of Hybrid-Cloud, Hybrid-Cloud is really thinking about the placement of Ous. We usually look at it from a data perspective, right. Are you going to in the public, or in the private space? And you kind of look at it from that perspective. And it really enables that data movement across both, of those clouds. >> So what do you see, David, in your customers? >> I see a lot of the customers, that we see today, are confused, right? The people who have gone to the Public Cloud, had scratched their heads and said, "Geez, what do I do?", "It's not as cheap as I thought it was going to be." So, the ones who are early adopters, are confused. The ones who haven't moved, yet, are really scratching their head as well, right. Because if you don't the right strategy, you'll end up getting boxed in. You'll pay a ton of money to get your data in, and you'll pay a ton of money to get your data out. And so, all of our customers, you know, want the right hybrid strategy. And, I think that's where the market, and I know Accenture and HPE, clearly see the market really becoming a hybrid world. >> It's interesting, you said it's based on the data, and you just talked about moving data in and out. Where we more often here it talked about workload, this kind of horses for courses, you know. It's a workload specific, should be deployed in this particular, kind of infrastructure configuration. But you both mention data, and there's a lot of conversation, kind of pre-cloud, about data gravity and how expensive it is to move the data, and the age old thing, do you move the compute to the data, or move the data to the compute? There's a lot of advantages, if you have that data in the cloud, but you're highlighting a couple of the real negatives, in terms of potential cost implications, and we didn't even get into regulations, and some of the other things that drive workloads to stay, in the data center. So, how should people start thinking about these variables, when they're trying to figure out what to do next? >> Accenture's position definitely, like when we started off on our Hybrid Cloud journey, was to capture the workload, right. And, once you have that workload, you could really balance the public benefits of speed, innovation, and consumption, with the private benefits of, actual regulation, data gravity, and performance, right. And so, our whole approach and big bet, has been to- Basically, we had really good leading public capabilities, cause we got into the market early. But we knew our customers were not going to be able to, migrate their entire estate over to public. And so in doing that, we said okay, if we create a hybrid capability, that is highly automated, that is consumed like public, and that is standard, we'd be able to offer our customers a way to pick really, the right workload, in the right place, at the right price. And that was really what our whole goal was. >> Go ahead. >> Yeah, and so just to add on to what Melissa said, I think we also think about, at least, you know, keeping the data in a place that you want, but then being cloud adjacent, so getting in the right data centers, and we often use a cloud saying, to bring the cloud to the data. So, if you have the right hybrid strategy, you put the data where it makes the most sense. Where you want to maintain the security and privacy, but then have access to the APIs, and whatever else you might need to get the full advantages, of the public cloud. >> Yeah, and we here a lot of the data center providers like, Equinix and stuff, talking about features, like direct connect and, you know, to have this proximity between the public cloud, and the stuff that's in your private cloud, so that you do have, you know, low latency, and you can, when you do have to move things, or you do need to access that data, it's not so far away. I'm curious about the impact of companies like, Salesforce in the Salesforce tower, here in San Francisco, at the center offices, and office 365, and Work Day, on how can the adoption of the SaaS applications, have changed the conversation about cloud, and what's important and not important, it used to be security, I don't trust anything outside my data center, and know I might argue that public clouds are more secure, in some ways that private cloud, you don't have disgruntled employees per se, running around the data centers unplugging things. So, how it the adoption of things like Office 365, clearly Microsoft's leveraged that in a big way, to grow their own cloud presence, change the conversation about what's good about cloud, what's not good about cloud, why should we move in this direction. David, you have a thought? >> No, look, I think it's a great question, and I think if you think about the, as Melissa said, the used cases, right. And, how Microsoft has successfully pivoted, their business to it as a service model, right. And so what I think it's done, it's opened up innovation, and a lot of the Salesforces of the world, have adapted their business models. And that's truly to your point, a SaaS based offer, and so when you can do a Work Day, or Salesforce.com implementation, sure, it's been built, it's tested and everything else. I think what then becomes the bigger question, and the bigger challenge is, most companies are sitting on a thousand applications, that have been built over time. And what do you do with those, right? And so, in many cases you need to be connected, to those SaaS space providers, but you need the right hybrid strategy, again, to be able to figure out, how to connect those SaaS space services, to whatever you're going to do, with those thousand workloads. And those thousand workloads, running on different things, you need the right strategy, to figure out where to put the actual workloads. And, as people are trying to go, I know one of the questions that comes up is, do you migrate? Or do you modernize? >> David: And so, as people put that strategy together, I think how you tie to those SaaS space services, clearly ties into your hybrid strategy. >> I would agree, and so, as David mentioned, right. That's where the cloud adjacency, you're seeing a lot of blur, between public and private, I mean, Google's providing Bare-metal as a service. So it is actually dedicated, hybrid cloud capabilities, right. So you're seeing a lot of everyone, and as David talked about, all of the surrounding applications around your SAP, around your oracle. When we created our Exensor Hyper Cloud, we were going after the Enterprise workload. But there's a lot of legacy and other ones, that need that data, and or, the Salesforce data. Whatever the data is, right. And really be able to utilize it when they need to, in a real low latency. >> So, I was wondering I we could unpack, the Accenture Hybrid Cloud. >> Melissa: Sure. >> What is that? Is that your guys own cloud? Is this, you know, kind of the solution set? I've heard that mentioned a couple times. So what is the Accenture Hybrid Cloud? >> So Accenture Hybrid Cloud, was a big bet that we made, as we saw the convergence of MultiCloud. We really said, we know, everything is not going to go public. And in some cases, it's all coming back. And so, customers really needed a way, to look at all of their workloads, right. Because part of the issue with, the getting the cost and benefits out of public is, the workload goes but you really aren't able, to get out of the data center. We term it the "Wild Animal Park", because there's a lot of applications that, right, are you going to modernize, are you going to let them to end of life. So there's a lot of things you have to consider, to truly exit the data center strategy. And so, Accenture Hybrid Cloud is actually, a big bet we made, it is a highly automated, standard private cloud capability, that really augments all of the leading capability, we had in the cloud area. It is, it's differentiated, we made a big bet with HPE, it's differentiated on it's hardware. One of the reasons, when we were going after the Enterprise, was they need large compute, and large storage requirements. And what we're able to do is, when we created this, use some of our automation differentiation. We have actually a client, that we had in the existing I-O-N environment, and we were actually able to achieve, some significant benefits, just from the automation. We got 50 percent in the provisioning of applications. We got 40 percent in the provisioning of the V.M. And we were able to take a lot of what I'll call, the manual tasks, and down to, it was like 62 percent reduction in the effort. As well as, 33 percent savings overall, in getting things production ready. So, this capability is highly automated. It will actually repeat the provisioning, at the application level, because we're going after the Enterprise workloads. And it will create these, it's an ASA that came from government, so it's highly secured, and it really was able to preserve, I think what our customer needed. And being able to span that public/private, capability they need out there in the hybrid world. >> Yeah, I was going to say, I don't know that there's enough talk, about the complexity of the management in these worlds. Nobody ever wants to talk about writing, the CIS Admin piece of the software, right? It's all about the core functionality. Let's shift gears a little bit and talk about HPC, a lot of conversation about high performance computing, a lot going on with A.I. and machine learning now. Which, you know, most of those benefits are going to be, realized in a specific application, right? It's machine learning or artificial intelligence, applied to a specific application. So, again, you guys make big iron, and have been making big iron for a long time, what is this kind of hybrid cloud open up, in terms of, for HPE to have the big heavy metal, and still have kind of the agility and flexibility, of a cloud type of infrastructure. >> Yeah, no, I think it's a great question. I think if you think about HPE's strategy has been, in this area of high performance compute. That we bought the company S.G.I. And as you have seen the announcements, we're hopefully going to close on the Cray acquisition as well. And so we in the world of the data continuing to expand, and at huge volumes. The need to have incredible horsepower to drive that, that's associated with it, now all of this really requires, where's your data being created, and where's it actually being consumed? And so, you need to have the right edge, to cloud strategy in everything. And so, in many cases, you need enough compute at the edge, to be able to compute and do stuff in real time. But in many cases you need to feed all that data, back into another cloud or some sort of mother. HPE, you know, type of high performance compute environment, that can actually run the more, advanced A.I. machine learning type of applications, to really get the insights and tune the algorithms. And then, push some of those APIs and applications, back to the edge. So, it's an area of huge investment, it's an area where because of the latency, you know, things like the autonomous driving, and things like that. You can't put all that stuff into the public cloud. But you need the public cloud, or you need cloud type capability, if you will, to be able to compute and make the right decisions, at the right time. So, it's about having the right compute technology, at the right place, at the right time, at the right cost, and the right perform. >> A lot of rights, good opportunity for Accenture. So, I mean it's funny as we talk about hybrid cloud, and that kind of new, verbs around cloud-like things. Is where we're going to see the same thing, kind of the edge versus the data center comparison, in terms of where the data is, where the processing is, because it's going to be this really dynamic situation, and how much can you push out of the edge, cause, you know, there's no air conditioning a lot of times, and the power might not be that great, and maybe connectivity is a little bit limited. So, you know, Edge offers a whole bunch of, different challenges that you can control for, in a data center but it is going to be this crazy, kind of hybrid world there too, in terms of where the allocation of those resources are. You guys get into the deeper end of that model, Melissa? >> Yeah, so we're definitely working with HPE, to create some of, I'll call it our edge managed services, again, going back to what we were saying about the data, right, we saw the centralization of data with the cloud, with the initial entrance into the cloud, now we're seeing the decentralization of that data, back out to the Edge. With that, right, in these hybrid cloud models, you're really going to need- They require a lot of high performance compute, especially for certain industries, right? If you take a look at gas, oil, and exploration, if you look at media processing, right, all of these need to be able to do that. One of the things, and depending on where it's located, if it's on the Edge, how you're going to feedback the data as we talked about. And so, we're looking at, how do you take this foundation, right, this, I'll call it Exensor Hybrid architecture, right. Take that, and play that intermediate role. I'm going to call it intermediary, right, because you really need a really good, you know, global data map, you need a good supply chain, right. Really to make sure that the data, no matter where it's coming from, is going to be available for that application, at the right time. With, right, the ability to do it at speed. And so, all of these things are factors, as you look at our whole Exensor Hybrid Cloud strategy, right. And being able to manage that, Edge to core and then back up to Cloud, etcetera. >> Right, now I wonder if you could share some stories, cause the value proposition around Cloud, is significantly shifted for those who are paying attention, right. But it's not about cost, it's not about cost savings, I mean there's a lot of that in there and that's good, but really the opportunity is about speed. Speed and innovation. And enabling more innovation across your Enterprise, with more people having more access to more data, to build more apps, and really, to react. Are people getting that? Or, are they still, the customer still kind of encumbered, by this kind of transition phase, they're still trying to sort it out, or do they get it? That really this opportunity is about speed, speed, speed. >> No, go ahead. I mean we use a phrase first off, it's, "fear no cloud", right. To your point, you know, how do you figure out the right strategy. But, I think within that you get, what's the right application? And how do you, you know, fit it in to the overall strategy, of what you're trying to do. >> Yeah. >> And I think the other thing that we're seeing is, you know, customers are trying to figure that out. We have a whole, right, when you start with that application map, you know, there could be 500 to 1000 workloads, right, and applications, and how are you going to, some you're going to retain, some you're going to retire, some you're going to (stutters) refactor for the cloud, or for your private cloud capability. Whatever it is, you're going to be looking at doing, I think, you know, we're seeing early adopters, like even the hyperscalers, themselves, right. They recognize the speed, so you know, we're working with Google for instance. They wanted to get into the Bare-metal, as a service capability, right. Them actually building it, getting it out to market would take so much longer. We already had this whole Exensor Hybrid Cloud architecture, that was cloud adjacent, so we had sub-millisecond latency, right. And so, they're the ones, right, everyone's figuring out that utilizing all of these, I'll call it platforms and prebook capabilities. Many of our partners have them as well, is really allowing them that innovation, get products to market sooner, be able to respond to their customers. Because it is, as we talked about in this multicloud world, lots of things that you have to manage, if you can get pieces from multiple, you know, from a partner, right, that can provide more of the services that you need, it really enables the management of those clouds sources. >> Right, so we're going to wrap it up, but I just want to give you the last word in terms of, what's the most consistent blind spot, that you see when you're first engaging with a customer, who's relatively early on this journey, that they miss, that you see over, and over, and over, and you're like, you know, these are some of the thing you really got to think about, that they haven't thought about. >> Yeah so, for me, I think it's- the cloud isn't about a destination, it's about an experience. And so, how do you get- you talked about the operations, but how do you provide that overall experience? I like to use this simple analogy, that if you and I needed a car, for five or 10, or 15 minutes, you go get an Uber. Cause it's easy, it's quick. If you need a car for a couple days, you do a rental car. You need a car for a year, you might do a lease. You need a car for three, four year, you probably by it, right? And so, if you use that analogy and think, Hmmm, I need a workload application for five/six years, putting something at a persistent workload, that you know about on a public cloud, may be the right answer, but it might be a lot more cost prohibited. But, if you need something, that you can stand up in five minutes, and shut it right back down, the public cloud is absolutely, the right way to go, as long as you can deal with the security requirements, and stuff. And so, if you think about, what are the actual requirements, is it cost, is it performance, you've talked about speed and everything else. It's really trying to figure out how you get an experience, and the only experience that can really hit you, what you need to do today, is having the right hybrid strategy. And every company, I know Accenture was out, way in front of the market on public cloud, and now they've come to the realization, so has many other places. The world is going to be hybrid, it's going to be multicloud. And as long as you can have an experience, and a partner, that can manage, you know, help you define the right path, you'll be on the right journey. >> Jeff: Melissa. >> I think blind spot we run into is, it does start off as a cost savings activity. And there really, it really is so much more about, how are you going to manage that enterprise workload? How are you going to worry about the data? Are you going to have access to it? Are you going to be able to make it fluid, right? The whole essence of cloud, right, what it disrupted was the thought, that something had to stay in one place, right. And, where the real time decisions were being made. Where things needed to happen. Now, through all the different clouds, as well as, that you had to own it yourself, right. I mean, everyone always thought, okay, I'll take all the, you know, I.T. department, and very protective of everything that it wanted to keep. Now, it's about saying, all right, how do I utilize, the best of each of these multiclouds, to stand up, what I'll call, what their core capability is as a customer, right. Are they doing the next chip design? Are they, you know, doing financial market models, right? That requires a high performance capability, right. So, when you start to think about all of this stuff, right, that's the true power, is having a strategy that looks at those outcomes. What am I trying to achieve in getting my products, and services to market, and touching the customers I need. Versus, oh, I'm going to move this out to an infrastructure, because that's what cloud, it'll save me money, right. That's typically the downfall we see, because they're not looking at it from the workload, or the application. >> Same old story, right? Focus on your core differentiator, and outsource the heavy lifting on the stuff, (laughs) that's not your core. Alright, well Melissa, David, thanks for taking a minute, and I really enjoyed the conversation. >> Thanks, Jeff. >> She's Melissa, He's David, and I'm Jeff Frick, you're watching theCUBE. We are high above the San Francisco skyline, in the Salesforce tower at the Accenture Innovation Hub. Thanks for watching, we'll see you next time. (tech music)

(upbeat music) >> Hey, welcome back everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We are high atop San Franciscso, in the Salesforce Tower in the brand new Accenture, the Innovation Hub. It opened up, I don't know, six months ago or so. We were here for the opening. It's a really spectacular space with a really cool Cinderella stair, so if you come, make sure you check that out. We're talking about cloud and the evolution of cloud, and hybrid cloud, and clearly, two players that are right in the middle of this, helping customers get through this journey, and do these migrations are Accenture and HPE. So we're excited to have our next guest, Melissa Besse. She is the Managing Director, Intelligent Cloud and Infrastructure Strategic Partnerships, at Accenture. Melissa, welcome. >> Thanks Jeff. >> And joining us from HP is David Stone. He is the VP of Ecosystem Sales. David great to see you. >> Great, thanks for having me. >> So, let's just jump into it. The cloud discussion has taken over for the last 10 years, but it's really continuing to evolve. It was kind of this new entrance, with AWS coming on the scene, one of the great lines that Jeff Bezos talks about, is they had no competition for seven years. Nobody recognized that the bookseller, out on the left hand edge, was coming in to take their infrastructure business. But as things have moved to public cloud, now there's hybrid cloud, now all applications, or work loads, are right for public clouds, so now, all the Enterprises are trying to figure this out, they want to make their moves but it's complicated. So, first of all, let's talk about some of the vocabulary, hybrid cloud versus Multi-Cloud. What do those terms mean to you and your customers? Let's start with you, Melissa. >> Sure. So when you think of Multi-Cloud, right, we're seeing a big convergence of, I would say, a Multi-Cloud operating model, that really has to integrate across all the clouds. So, you have your public cloud providers, you have your SaaS, like Salesforce, work day, you have your PAS, right. And so when you think of Multi-Cloud, any customer is going to have a plethora, of all of these types of clouds. And really being able to manage across those, becomes critical. When you think of Hybrid-Cloud, Hybrid-Cloud is really thinking about the placement of Ous. We usually look at it from a data perspective, right. Are you going to in the public, or in the private space? And you kind of look at it from that perspective. And it really enables that data movement across both, of those clouds. >> So what do you see, David, in your customers? >> I see a lot of the customers, that we see today, are confused, right? The people who have gone to the Public Cloud, had scratched their heads and said, "Geez, what do I do?", "It's not as cheap as I thought it was going to be." So, the ones who are early adopters, are confused. The ones who haven't moved, yet, are really scratching their head as well, right. Because if you don't the right strategy, you'll end up getting boxed in. You'll pay a ton of money to get your data in, and you'll pay a ton of money to get your data out. And so, all of our customers, you know, want the right hybrid strategy. And, I think that's where the market, and I know Accenture and HPE, clearly see the market really becoming a hybrid world. >> It's interesting, you said it's based on the data, and you just talked about moving data in and out. Where we more often here it talked about workload, this kind of horses for courses, you know. It's a workload specific, should be deployed in this particular, kind of infrastructure configuration. But you both mention data, and there's a lot of conversation, kind of pre-cloud, about data gravity and how expensive it is to move the data, and the age old thing, do you move the compute to the data, or move the data to the compute? There's a lot of advantages, if you have that data in the cloud, but you're highlighting a couple of the real negatives, in terms of potential cost implications, and we didn't even get into regulations, and some of the other things that drive workloads to stay, in the data center. So, how should people start thinking about these variables, when they're trying to figure out what to do next? >> Accenture's position definitely, like when we started off on our Hybrid Cloud journey, was to capture the workload, right. And, once you have that workload, you could really balance the public benefits of speed, innovation, and consumption, with the private benefits of, actual regulation, data gravity, and performance, right. And so, our whole approach and big bet, has been to- Basically, we had really good leading public capabilities, cause we got into the market early. But we knew our customers were not going to be able to, migrate their entire estate over to public. And so in doing that, we said okay, if we create a hybrid capability, that is highly automated, that is consumed like public, and that is standard, we'd be able to offer our customers a way to pick really, the right workload, in the right place, at the right price. And that was really what our whole goal was. >> Go ahead. >> Yeah, and so just to add on to what Melissa said, I think we also think about, at least, you know, keeping the data in a place that you want, but then being cloud adjacent, so getting in the right data centers, and we often use a cloud saying, to bring the cloud to the data. So, if you have the right hybrid strategy, you put the data where it makes the most sense. Where you want to maintain the security and privacy, but then have access to the APIs, and whatever else you might need to get the full advantages, of the public cloud. >> Yeah, and we here a lot of the data center providers like, Equinix and stuff, talking about features, like direct connect and, you know, to have this proximity between the public cloud, and the stuff that's in your private cloud, so that you do have, you know, low latency, and you can, when you do have to move things, or you do need to access that data, it's not so far away. I'm curious about the impact of companies like, Salesforce in the Salesforce tower, here in San Francisco, at the center offices, and office 365, and Work Day, on how can the adoption of the SaaS applications, have changed the conversation about cloud, and what's important and not important, it used to be security, I don't trust anything outside my data center, and know I might argue that public clouds are more secure, in some ways that private cloud, you don't have disgruntled employees per se, running around the data centers unplugging things. So, how it the adoption of things like Office 365, clearly Microsoft's leveraged that in a big way, to grow their own cloud presence, change the conversation about what's good about cloud, what's not good about cloud, why should we move in this direction. David, you have a thought? >> No, look, I think it's a great question, and I think if you think about the, as Melissa said, the used cases, right. And, how Microsoft has successfully pivoted, their business to it as a service model, right. And so what I think it's done, it's opened up innovation, and a lot of the Salesforces of the world, have adapted their business models. And that's truly to your point, a SaaS based offer, and so when you can do a Work Day, or Salesforce.com implementation, sure, it's been built, it's tested and everything else. I think what then becomes the bigger question, and the bigger challenge is, most companies are sitting on a thousand applications, that have been built over time. And what do you do with those, right? And so, in many cases you need to be connected, to those SaaS space providers, but you need the right hybrid strategy, again, to be able to figure out, how to connect those SaaS space services, to whatever you're going to do, with those thousand workloads. And those thousand workloads, running on different things, you need the right strategy, to figure out where to put the actual workloads. And, as people are trying to go, I know one of the questions that comes up is, do you migrate? Or do you modernize? >> David: And so, as people put that strategy together, I think how you tie to those SaaS space services, clearly ties into your hybrid strategy. >> I would agree, and so, as David mentioned, right. That's where the cloud adjacency, you're seeing a lot of blur, between public and private, I mean, Google's providing Bare-metal as a service. So it is actually dedicated, hybrid cloud capabilities, right. So you're seeing a lot of everyone, and as David talked about, all of the surrounding applications around your SAP, around your oracle. When we created our Exensor Hyper Cloud, we were going after the Enterprise workload. But there's a lot of legacy and other ones, that need that data, and or, the Salesforce data. Whatever the data is, right. And really be able to utilize it when they need to, in a real low latency. >> So, I was wondering I we could unpack, the Accenture Hybrid Cloud. >> Melissa: Sure. >> What is that? Is that your guys own cloud? Is this, you know, kind of the solution set? I've heard that mentioned a couple times. So what is the Accenture Hybrid Cloud? >> So Accenture Hybrid Cloud, was a big bet that we made, as we saw the convergence of MultiCloud. We really said, we know, everything is not going to go public. And in some cases, it's all coming back. And so, customers really needed a way, to look at all of their workloads, right. Because part of the issue with, the getting the cost and benefits out of public is, the workload goes but you really aren't able, to get out of the data center. We term it the "Wild Animal Park", because there's a lot of applications that, right, are you going to modernize, are you going to let them to end of life. So there's a lot of things you have to consider, to truly exit the data center strategy. And so, Accenture Hybrid Cloud is actually, a big bet we made, it is a highly automated, standard private cloud capability, that really augments all of the leading capability, we had in the cloud area. It is, it's differentiated, we made a big bet with HPE, it's differentiated on it's hardware. One of the reasons, when we were going after the Enterprise, was they need large compute, and large storage requirements. And what we're able to do is, when we created this, use some of our automation differentiation. We have actually a client, that we had in the existing I-O-N environment, and we were actually able to achieve, some significant benefits, just from the automation. We got 50 percent in the provisioning of applications. We got 40 percent in the provisioning of the V.M. And we were able to take a lot of what I'll call, the manual tasks, and down to, it was like 62 percent reduction in the effort. As well as, 33 percent savings overall, in getting things production ready. So, this capability is highly automated. It will actually repeat the provisioning, at the application level, because we're going after the Enterprise workloads. And it will create these, it's an ASA that came from government, so it's highly secured, and it really was able to preserve, I think what our customer needed. And being able to span that public/private, capability they need out there in the hybrid world. >> Yeah, I was going to say, I don't know that there's enough talk, about the complexity of the management in these worlds. Nobody ever wants to talk about writing, the CIS Admin piece of the software, right? It's all about the core functionality. Let's shift gears a little bit and talk about HPC, a lot of conversation about high performance computing, a lot going on with A.I. and machine learning now. Which, you know, most of those benefits are going to be, realized in a specific application, right? It's machine learning or artificial intelligence, applied to a specific application. So, again, you guys make big iron, and have been making big iron for a long time, what is this kind of hybrid cloud open up, in terms of, for HPE to have the big heavy metal, and still have kind of the agility and flexibility, of a cloud type of infrastructure. >> Yeah, no, I think it's a great question. I think if you think about HPE's strategy has been, in this area of high performance compute. That we bought the company S.G.I. And as you have seen the announcements, we're hopefully going to close on the Cray acquisition as well. And so we in the world of the data continuing to expand, and at huge volumes. The need to have incredible horsepower to drive that, that's associated with it, now all of this really requires, where's your data being created, and where's it actually being consumed? And so, you need to have the right edge, to cloud strategy in everything. And so, in many cases, you need enough compute at the edge, to be able to compute and do stuff in real time. But in many cases you need to feed all that data, back into another cloud or some sort of mother. HPE, you know, type of high performance compute environment, that can actually run the more, advanced A.I. machine learning type of applications, to really get the insights and tune the algorithms. And then, push some of those APIs and applications, back to the edge. So, it's an area of huge investment, it's an area where because of the latency, you know, things like the autonomous driving, and things like that. You can't put all that stuff into the public cloud. But you need the public cloud, or you need cloud type capability, if you will, to be able to compute and make the right decisions, at the right time. So, it's about having the right compute technology, at the right place, at the right time, at the right cost, and the right perform. >> A lot of rights, good opportunity for Accenture. So, I mean it's funny as we talk about hybrid cloud, and that kind of new, verbs around cloud-like things. Is where we're going to see the same thing, kind of the edge versus the data center comparison, in terms of where the data is, where the processing is, because it's going to be this really dynamic situation, and how much can you push out of the edge, cause, you know, there's no air conditioning a lot of times, and the power might not be that great, and maybe connectivity is a little bit limited. So, you know, Edge offers a whole bunch of, different challenges that you can control for, in a data center but it is going to be this crazy, kind of hybrid world there too, in terms of where the allocation of those resources are. You guys get into the deeper end of that model, Melissa? >> Yeah, so we're definitely working with HPE, to create some of, I'll call it our edge managed services, again, going back to what we were saying about the data, right, we saw the centralization of data with the cloud, with the initial entrance into the cloud, now we're seeing the decentralization of that data, back out to the Edge. With that, right, in these hybrid cloud models, you're really going to need- They require a lot of high performance compute, especially for certain industries, right? If you take a look at gas, oil, and exploration, if you look at media processing, right, all of these need to be able to do that. One of the things, and depending on where it's located, if it's on the Edge, how you're going to feedback the data as we talked about. And so, we're looking at, how do you take this foundation, right, this, I'll call it Exensor Hybrid architecture, right. Take that, and play that intermediate role. I'm going to call it intermediary, right, because you really need a really good, you know, global data map, you need a good supply chain, right. Really to make sure that the data, no matter where it's coming from, is going to be available for that application, at the right time. With, right, the ability to do it at speed. And so, all of these things are factors, as you look at our whole Exensor Hybrid Cloud strategy, right. And being able to manage that, Edge to core and then back up to Cloud, etcetera. >> Right, now I wonder if you could share some stories, cause the value proposition around Cloud, is significantly shifted for those who are paying attention, right. But it's not about cost, it's not about cost savings, I mean there's a lot of that in there and that's good, but really the opportunity is about speed. Speed and innovation. And enabling more innovation across your Enterprise, with more people having more access to more data, to build more apps, and really, to react. Are people getting that? Or, are they still, the customer still kind of encumbered, by this kind of transition phase, they're still trying to sort it out, or do they get it? That really this opportunity is about speed, speed, speed. >> No, go ahead. I mean we use a phrase first off, it's, "fear no cloud", right. To your point, you know, how do you figure out the right strategy. But, I think within that you get, what's the right application? And how do you, you know, fit it in to the overall strategy, of what you're trying to do. >> Yeah. >> And I think the other thing that we're seeing is, you know, customers are trying to figure that out. We have a whole, right, when you start with that application map, you know, there could be 500 to 1000 workloads, right, and applications, and how are you going to, some you're going to retain, some you're going to retire, some you're going to (stutters) refactor for the cloud, or for your private cloud capability. Whatever it is, you're going to be looking at doing, I think, you know, we're seeing early adopters, like even the hyperscalers, themselves, right. They recognize the speed, so you know, we're working with Google for instance. They wanted to get into the Bare-metal, as a service capability, right. Them actually building it, getting it out to market would take so much longer. We already had this whole Exensor Hybrid Cloud architecture, that was cloud adjacent, so we had sub-millisecond latency, right. And so, they're the ones, right, everyone's figuring out that utilizing all of these, I'll call it platforms and prebook capabilities. Many of our partners have them as well, is really allowing them that innovation, get products to market sooner, be able to respond to their customers. Because it is, as we talked about in this multicloud world, lots of things that you have to manage, if you can get pieces from multiple, you know, from a partner, right, that can provide more of the services that you need, it really enables the management of those clouds sources. >> Right, so we're going to wrap it up, but I just want to give you the last word in terms of, what's the most consistent blind spot, that you see when you're first engaging with a customer, who's relatively early on this journey, that they miss, that you see over, and over, and over, and you're like, you know, these are some of the thing you really got to think about, that they haven't thought about. >> Yeah so, for me, I think it's- the cloud isn't about a destination, it's about an experience. And so, how do you get- you talked about the operations, but how do you provide that overall experience? I like to use this simple analogy, that if you and I needed a car, for five or 10, or 15 minutes, you go get an Uber. Cause it's easy, it's quick. If you need a car for a couple days, you do a rental car. You need a car for a year, you might do a lease. You need a car for three, four year, you probably by it, right? And so, if you use that analogy and think, Hmmm, I need a workload application for five/six years, putting something at a persistent workload, that you know about on a public cloud, may be the right answer, but it might be a lot more cost prohibited. But, if you need something, that you can stand up in five minutes, and shut it right back down, the public cloud is absolutely, the right way to go, as long as you can deal with the security requirements, and stuff. And so, if you think about, what are the actual requirements, is it cost, is it performance, you've talked about speed and everything else. It's really trying to figure out how you get an experience, and the only experience that can really hit you, what you need to do today, is having the right hybrid strategy. And every company, I know Accenture was out, way in front of the market on public cloud, and now they've come to the realization, so has many other places. The world is going to be hybrid, it's going to be multicloud. And as long as you can have an experience, and a partner, that can manage, you know, help you define the right path, you'll be on the right journey. >> Jeff: Melissa. >> I think blind spot we run into is, it does start off as a cost savings activity. And there really, it really is so much more about, how are you going to manage that enterprise workload? How are you going to worry about the data? Are you going to have access to it? Are you going to be able to make it fluid, right? The whole essence of cloud, right, what it disrupted was the thought, that something had to stay in one place, right. And, where the real time decisions were being made. Where things needed to happen. Now, through all the different clouds, as well as, that you had to own it yourself, right. I mean, everyone always thought, okay, I'll take all the, you know, I.T. department, and very protective of everything that it wanted to keep. Now, it's about saying, all right, how do I utilize, the best of each of these multiclouds, to stand up, what I'll call, what their core capability is as a customer, right. Are they doing the next chip design? Are they, you know, doing financial market models, right? That requires a high performance capability, right. So, when you start to think about all of this stuff, right, that's the true power, is having a strategy that looks at those outcomes. What am I trying to achieve in getting my products, and services to market, and touching the customers I need. Versus, oh, I'm going to move this out to an infrastructure, because that's what cloud, it'll save me money, right. That's typically the downfall we see, because they're not looking at it from the workload, or the application. >> Same old story, right? Focus on your core differentiator, and outsource the heavy lifting on the stuff, (laughs) that's not your core. Alright, well Melissa, David, thanks for taking a minute, and I really enjoyed the conversation. >> Thanks, Jeff. >> She's Melissa, He's David, and I'm Jeff Frick, you're watching theCUBE. We are high above the San Francisco skyline, in the Salesforce tower at the Accenture Innovation Hub. Thanks for watching, we'll see you next time. (tech music)

>> Hey, welcome back already, Jeffrey. Here with the Cube, we are high Top San Francisco in the Salesforce Tower and the brand new A century's Thean Novation hub opened up, I don't know. Six months ago or so, we were here for the opening. It's a really spectacular space with a really cool Cinderella stare. So if you come, make sure you check that out. We're talking about a cloud in the evolution of cloud and hybrid cloud. And clearly two players that are right in the middle is helping customers get through this journey and do these migrations. Our center and h. P. E s were excited to have our next guest, Melissa Bessie. She is the managing director, Intelligent cloud and infrastructure strategic partnerships at a center. Melissa. Welcome. And joining us from HP is David Stone. He's the VP of ecosystem sales. They have a great to see you. >> Thanks for having me. >> So let's just jump into it. The cloud discussion has taken over for the last 10 years, but it's really continuing to evolve. It was kind of this this new entrance with aws kind of coming on the scene. One of the great lines of Jeff Basil's talks about is they had no competition for seven years. Nobody recognized that the the bookseller out on the left hand ah, edges coming in to take the river structure business. But as things have moved to Public Cloud, now there's hybrid cloud. No, no. All applications or work clothes are right for a public cloud. So now, while the enterprises are trying to figure this out, they want to make their moves. But it's complicated. So first of all, let's talk about some of the vocabulary hybrid cloud versus multi cloud one of those terms mean to you and your customers started Melissa. >> Sure. So when you think of multi cloud, right, we're seeing a big convergence of I would say multi Kludd operating model that really has to integrate across all the clouds. So you have your public cloud providers. You have your sass like, uh, sales force at work day, you have your pass right? And so when you think of multi cloud, any customers goingto have a plethora of all of these types of clouds and really being able to manage across those becomes critical. When you think of hybrid cloud hybrid cloud is really thinking about the placement of ill. We usually look at it from a data perspective, right? Are you going to put your data in the public or in the private space? And so you can't look at it from that perspective, and it really enables that data movement across both of those clouds. >> So what would you see? David and your, uh, your customers? I say that a >> lot of the customers that we see today or confused right the people who have gone to the public cloud have scratched their heads and said, Jeez, what do I do? It's not as cheap as I thought it was gonna be. So the ones who were early adopters or confused the ones who haven't moved yet are really scratching their head as well, Right, because if you don't have the right strategy, you'll end up getting boxed in. You'll pay a ton of money to get your data in, and you'll pay a ton of money to get your data out. And so all of our customers, you know, want the right hybrid strategy, and I think that's where the market and I know a center and HPD clearly see them, the market really becoming a hybrid world. >> It's interesting, Melissa, You said it's based on the data, and you just talked about moving data in and out where we more often hear it talked about workload. This kind of horses for courses, you know, it's a workload specific should be deployed in this particular kind of infrastructure configuration. But you both mentioned data, and there's a lot of conversation kind of pre cloud about data, gravity and how expensive it is to move the date and the age old thing. Do you move the compute to the data, or do you move the data to the compute? A lot of advantages if you have that data in the cloud, but you're highlighting a couple of the ah, the real negatives in terms of potential cost implications. And we didn't even get into regulations and some of the other things that drive workloads to stay in the data center. So how should people start thinking about these variables when they're trying to figure out what to do next? >> Ex enters position Definitely like when we started off on our hybrid cloud journey was to capture the workload and once you have that workload you could really balance. It's the public benefits of speed, innovation and consumption with the private benefits of actually regulation, data, gravity and performance. Right? And so our whole approach and big bet has been able is been to basically we had really good leading public capabilities because we got into the market early. But we knew our customers were not going to be able to migrate their entire estate over to public. And so in doing that, we we said, OK, if we create a hybrid capability that is highly automated, that is consumed like public, Um and that is standard. We'd be able to offer our customers a weight of pick, really the right workload in the right place at the right price. And that was really what? Our whole goal waas. >> Yeah, and so just the Adama Melissa said, I think we also think about at least, uh, you know, keeping the data in a place where you want but then being cloud adjacent. So getting in the right data centers and we often use the cloud saying to bring the cloud to the data right? So if you have the right hybrid strategy. You put the data where it makes the most sense where you want to maintain the security and privacy. Ah, but then have access to the AP eyes and whatever else you might need to get the full advantages of the public cloud. >> Yeah, and we hear a lot of the data center providers like quinyx and stuff talking about features like Direct Connect and Noted Toe have this proximity between the public cloud and the and the stuff that's in your private cloud so that you do have no low latent see, and you can when you do have to move things or you do need to access that data. It's not so far away. Um, I'm curious about the impact of companies like Salesforce with Salesforce Tower here in San Francisco at the Centre Offices and Office 3 65 and Work Day on how kind of the adoption of the SAS applications have changed. The conversation about Cloud or what's important and not important, needs to be security. I don't trust eating outside my data center Now, one might argue that public clouds are more secure in some ways than in private cloud. You have disgruntled employees per se running around the data centers on plugging things. So how? How is the adoption of things like Officer 65? Clearly, Microsoft's leverage that in a big way to grow their own cloud presence changed the conversation about what's good about Cloud. What's not good about Chlo? Why should we move in this direction? But if you have thought >> no, look, it's a great question, and I think if you think about that, his Melissa said, the use cases right and Microsoft is have sex. Feli successfully pivoted their business to it as a service model, right? And so what I think it's done is it's opened up innovation, and a lot of the sales forces of the world have adapted their business models. And that's truly to your point, a sass based offer. And so when you could do a work day or a salesforce dot com implementation shirt, it's been built that it's tested and everything else I think, what then becomes the bigger question in the bigger challenges. Most companies air sitting on 1000 applications that have been built over time, and what do you do with those? And so in many cases, you need to be connected to those SAS space providers. But you need the right hybrid strategy again. To be able to figure out how to connect those SAS based service is to whatever you're gonna do with those 1000 workloads and those 1000 workloads running on different things that you need the right strategy to figure out where to put the actual workloads and is people they're trying to go. I know one of the questions that comes up is Do you my grade or do you modernize? And so as people put that strategy together, I think how you tied to those SAS based service is clearly ties into your hybrid strategy, >> I would agree. And so, as David mentioned, right, that's where the clouded Jason see, you're seeing a lot of blur between public and private. I mean, Google's providing bare metal is a service, so it is actually dedicated hybrid cloud capabilities. Right? So you're seeing a lot of everyone. And as as David talked about all of the surrounding applications around your s a P around Oracle, when we created our ex enter hyper cloud, we were going after the enterprise workload. But there is a lot of legacy and other ones that need that data and or the sales force data, whatever the data is right and really be able to utilize it when they need to in a real low leagues. >> So let's I want to get unpacked. The ah central hybrid cloud. Um, what is that exactly is that is that your guys own cloud is, you know, kind of a solution set. I've heard that mentioned a couple of times. So what is the centre? Hyper cloud? >> So eccentric hybrid cloud was a big bet we made as we saw the convergence of multi cloud. We really said, We know we everything is not gonna go public and in some cases it's all coming back. And so customers really needed a way to look at all of their workloads, right? Because part of the issue with the getting the cost of the benefits out of public is the workload goes. But you really don't earn able to get out of the data center. We terminate the wild animal park because there's a lot of applications that right Are you going to modernize? Are you goingto let them to end of life? so there's a lot of things you have to consider to truly exit a data center strategy. And so its center hybrid cloud is actually a big bet we made. It is a highly automated, standard private cloud capability that really augments all of the leading capability we had in the cloud area. It is it's differentiated women, a big bet with HP. It's differentiated on its hardware. One of the reasons when we're going after the enterprise was they need large compute. They have large computer and large storage requirements, and what we were able to dio is when we created this used some of our automation differentiation. We have actually a client that we had an existing Io environment. We were actually able to achieve some significant benefits just from the automation. We got 50% in the provisioning of applications. We got 40% in the provisioning in the V m on, and we were able to take a lot of what I'll call the manual tasks and down Thio. It was like 62% reduction in the effort as well as a 33% savings overall in getting things production ready. So this capability is highly automated. It will actually repeat the provisioning at the application level because we're going after the enterprise workloads and it will create these. It's an asset that came from the government. So it's highly secured. Um, and it really was able to preserve. I think, what our customer needed and being able to span that public private capability they need out there in the hybrid world. >> Yeah, you could say I don't know that there's enough talk aboutthe complexity of the management in these worlds. Nobody ever wants to talk about writing this a sideman piece of the software, right? It's all about the core functionality. Let's shift gears a little bit. Talk about HBC. A lot of conversation about high performance computing, a lot going on with a I and machine learning now, which you know most of those benefits are going to be realized in a specific application, right? It's a machine learning or artificial intelligence apply to a specific application. So again, you guys big, big iron and been making big iron for ah, long time. What is this kind of hybrid cloud open up in terms of HB Ito have the big, heavy big heavy metal instead it and still have kind of the agility and flexibility of a cloud type of infrastructure. >> Yeah, no, I think it's a great question. I think if you think about what HB strategy has been in this area and high performance compute, we bought the company SG eye on. As you've seen, the announcements were hopefully gonna close on the Kree acquisition as well. And so we see in the world of the data continuing to expand in huge volumes, the need to have incredible horsepower to drive that associated with it. Now all of this really requires Where's your data being created and where's it actually being consumed? And so you need to have the right edge to cloud strategy and everything. And so in many cases, you need enough compute at the edge to be able to compute in do stuff in real time. But in many cases, you need to feed all that data back into ah, Mother Cloud or some sort of mother HP, you know, e type of high performance, confused environment that can actually run the more advanced a I in machine learning type of applications to really get the insights and tune the algorithms and then push some of those AP eyes and applications back to the edge. So it's it's an area of huge investment. It's an area where because of the late and see, uh, and you know things like autonomous driving and things like that. You can't put all that stuff into the public cloud. But you need the public cloud or you need cloud type capability if you will have able to compute and make the right decisions at the right time. So it's about having the right computer technology at the right place at the right time. The right cost and the right perform a >> lot of rights. Yeah, good opportunity for a center. So I mean, it's it's funny as we talk about hybrid cloud and and that kind of new new verbs around Cloud and cloud like things is where we're gonna see the same thing. Kind of the edge, the edge versus the data center comparison in terms of where the data is, where the processing is because it's gonna be this really dynamic situation, and how much can you push out? I was like the edge because there was no air conditioning a lot of times, and the power might not be that grade. And maybe connectivity is a little bit limited. So, you know, EJ offers a whole bunch of different challenges that you can control for in a data center. But it is going to be this crazy kind of hybrid world there, too, in terms of where the allocation of those resource is. Are you guys getting deeper into that model, Melissa? >> So we're definitely working with HP again to create some of all call it our edge. Manage. Service is again going back to what we're saying about the data, right? We saw the centralization of data with a cloud with the initial entrance into the cloud. Now we're seeing the decentralization of that data back out to the edge. Um, with that right in these hybrid cloud models, you're really going to need. They require a lot of high performance compute, especially for certain industries, right? If you take a look at gas, oil and exploration, if you look at media processing right, all of these need to be able to do that. One of the things and depending on where it's located, if it's on the edge. How you're gonna feed back the data as we talked about. And so we're looking at How do you take this foundation? Right. This all colonic center hybrid. Um, architecture. I take that and play that intermediate role. I'm gonna call it intermediary. Right, Because you really need a really good you know, global data map. You need a good supply chain, right? Really? To make sure that the data, no matter where it's coming from, is going to be available for that application at the right time, with right, the ability to do it at speed. And so all of these things air factors as we look at our hole ex center, hybrid cloud strategy, right? And being able to manage that EJ decor and then back out to cloud exactly >> right. And I wonder if you could share some stories because the value proposition I think around cloud is significantly shifted for those who are paying attention, right? It's not about cost. It's not about cost savings. I mean, there's a lot of that in there, and that's good. But really, the opportunity is about speed, speed and innovation and enabling more innovation across your enterprise. with more people having more access to more data to build more APS and really to react. Are people getting that or they still the customer still kind of encumbered by this this kind of transition phase. They're still trying to sort it out. Or do they get it? That that really this opportunity is about speed, Speed, speed? No, >> go ahead. I mean, we use a phrase first offices here. No cloud, right. So to your point, you know, how do you figure out the right strategy? But I think within that you you get what's the right application and how do you fit it into the overall strategy of what you're trying to do? >> And I think the other thing that we're seeing is, um, you know, customers are trying to figure that out. We have a whole right. When you start with that application map, you know, there could be 500 to 1000 workloads, write applications. And how are you going to some? You're gonna retain some? You're gonna retire some. You're gonna reap age. You're gonna re factor for the cloud or for your private cloud capability. Whatever it is you're going to be looking at doing? Um, I think, you know, we're seeing early adopters like even the papers killers themselves, right? They recognize the speed. So, you know, we're working with Google. For instance. They wanted to get into the bare metal as a service capability. Write them, actually building it. Getting it out to market would take so much longer. We already had this whole ex center hybrid cloud architecture that was cloud adjacent, so we had sub millisecond latency, and so their loved ones, Right? Everyone's figuring out that utilizing all of these, I'll call it platforms and pre book capabilities. Many of our partners have them as well is really allowing them that innovation, get products to market sooner, be able to respond to their customers because it is, as we talked about this multi cloud were lots of things that you have to manage if you can get pieces from multiple plate, you know, from a partner right that can provide Maur of the service is that you need it really enables the management of right, >> right, So gonna wrap it up. I won't give you the last word in terms of what's the what's the most consistent blind spot that you see when you're first engaging with a customer who's who's relatively early on this journey that that they miss that you see over and over and over. And you're like, you know, these are some of the things you really gotta think about that they haven't thought about >> Yeah, so for me, I think it's the cloud isn't about a destination. It's about an experience. And so how do you get you talked about the operations? But how do you provide that overall experience? I like to use a simple analogy that if you and I needed a car for five or 10 or 15 minutes, you go get a new bir. Uh, because it's easy. It's quick. If you need a car for a couple days to do a rent a car, we need a car for a year. You might do at least you need a car for 34 years. You probably buy it right. And so if you use that analogy and think whom I need a workload or in the application for 56 years putting something out, persistent workload that you know about on a public cloud, maybe the right answer, but it might be a lot more cost prohibitive. But if you need something that you can stand up in five minutes and shut right back down, the public cloud is absolutely the right way to go is long as you can deal with the security requirements and stuff. So if you think you think about what are the actual requirements, is it costs is a performance. You've talked about speed and everything else it really trying to figure out you get an experience and the only experience that can really hit you. What you need to do today is a having the right hybrid strategy and every company and a century was out way in front of the market on Public Cloud, and now they've come to the realization, and so has many other places. The world is going to be hybrid, and it's gonna be multi cloud. And as long as you can have an experience and a partner that can manage, you know, help you to find the right path, you'll be on the right journey. >> I think the blinds, but we run into is it does start off as a cost savings activity, and they're really. It really is so much more about how you're going to manage that enterprise workload. How are we gonna worry about the data? Are you gonna have access to it? Are you gonna be able to make it fluid, right. The whole essence of cloud, right? What? It What it disrupted was the I thought that something had to stay in one place, right? And that you were the real time decisions were being made where things needed to happen. Now, through all the different clouds as well as that, you had to own it yourself, right? I mean, everyone always thought Okay, uh, I'll take all of the I T. Department. Very protective of everything that wanted to keep. Now it's about saying, All right, how do I utilize the best of each of these multi clouds to stand up? What? I'll call what their core capability is as a customer, right? Are they do in the next chip design or hey, you know, doing financial market models right? That requires a high performance capability, right? So when you start to think about all of this stuff, right, that's the true power. Is is having a strategy that looks at those outcomes. What am I trying to achieve in getting my products and service is to market and touching the car customers I need versus Oh, I'm gonna move this out to an infrastructure because that's what God will save me. Money, Right, Bench. Typically the downfall we see because they're not looking at it from the workload of the application. >> Same old story, right? Focus on your core differentiator and outsource the heavy lifting on the stuff that that's not your core. All right, Well, Melissa David, Thanks for taking a minute and really enjoyed the conversation. Is Melissa? He's David. I'm Jeff. Rick, you're watching. The Cube were high above the San Francisco skyline in the sales force. Tyra. The essential innovation up. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time.