>> Announcer: Live from Orlando, Florida it's theCUBE! Covering Microsoft Ignite, brought to you by Cohesity. >> Hello, and happy taco Tuesday CUBE viewers! You are watching theCUBE's live coverage of Microsoft's Ignite here in Orlando, Florida. I'm your host Rebecca Knight, along with Stu Miniman. We're joined by Scott Hanselman, he is the partner program manager at Microsoft. Thank you so much for coming on theCUBE! >> Absolutely, my pleasure! >> Rebecca: And happy taco Tuesday to you! Will code for tacos. >> Will code for tacos. >> I'm digging it, I'm digging it >> I'm a very inexpensive coder. >> So you are the partner program manager, but you're really the people's programmer at Microsoft. Satya Nadella up on the main stage yesterday, talking about programming for everyone, empowering ordinary citizen developers, and you yourself were on the main stage this morning, "App Development for All", why is this such a priority for Microsoft at this point in time? >> Well there's the priority for Microsoft, and then I'll also speak selfishly as a priority for me, because when we talk about inclusion, what does that really mean? Well it is the opposite of exclusion. So when we mean inclusion, we need to mean everyone, we need to include everyone. So what can we do to make technology, to make programming possible, to make everyone enabled, whether that be something like drag and drop, and PowerApps, and the Power platform, all the way down to doing things like we did in the keynote this morning with C# on a tiny micro-controller, and the entire spectrum in between, whether it be citizen programmers in Excel using Power BI to go and do machine learning, or the silly things that we did in the keynote with rock, paper scissors that we might be able to talk about. All of that means including everyone and if the site isn't accessible, if Visual Studio as a tool isn't accessible, if you're training your AI in a non-ethical way, you are consciously excluding people. So back to what Satya thinks is why can't everyone do this? SatyaSacha thinks is why can't everyone do this? Why are we as programmers having any gate keeping, or you know, "You can't do that you're not a programmer, "you know, I'm a programmer, you can't have that." >> So what does the future look like, >> Rebecca: So what does the future look like, if everyone knows how to do it? I mean, do some imagining, visioning right now about if everyone does know how to do this, or at least can learn the building blocks for it, what does technology look like? >> Well hopefully it will be ethical, and it'll be democratized so that everyone can do it. I think that the things that are interesting, or innovative today will become commoditized tomorrow, like, something as simple as a webcam detecting your face, and putting a square around it and then you move around, and the square, we were like, "Oh my God, that was amazing!" And now it's just a library that you can download. What is amazing and interesting today, like AR and VR, where it's like, "Oh wow, I've never seen augmented reality work like that!" My eight-year-old will be able to do it in five years, and they'll be older than eight. >> So Scott, one of the big takeaways I had from the app dev keynote that you did this morning was in the past it was trying to get everybody on the same page, let's move them to our stack, let's move them to our cloud, let's move them on this programming language, and you really talked about how the example of Chipotle is different parts of the organization will write in a different language, and there needs to be, it's almost, you know, that service bus that you have between all of these environments, because we've spent, a lot of us, I know in my career I've spent decades trying to help break down those silos, and get everybody to work together, but we're never going to have everybody doing the same jobs, so we need to meet them where they are, they need to allow them to use the tools, the languages, the platforms that they want, but they need to all be able to work together, and this is not the Microsoft that I grew up with that is now an enabler of that environment. The word we keep coming back to is trust at the keynote. I know there's some awesome, cool new stuff about .net which is a piece of it, but it's all of the things together. >> Right, you know I was teaching a class at Mesa Community College down in San Diego a couple of days ago and they were trying, they were all people who wanted jobs, just community college people, I went to community college and it's like, I just want to know how to get a job, what is the thing that I can do? What language should I learn? And that's a tough question. They wonder, do I learn Java, do I learn C#? And someone had a really funny analogy, and I'll share it with you. They said, well you know English is the language, right? Why don't the other languages just give up? They said, you know, Finland, they're not going to win, right? Their language didn't win, so they should just give up, and they should all speak English, and I said, What an awful thing! They like their language! I'm not going to go to people who do Haskell, or Rust, or Scala, or F#, and say, you should give up! You're not going to win because C won, or Java won, or C# won. So instead, why don't we focus on standards where we can inter-operate, where we can accept that the reality is a hybrid cloud things like Azure Arc that allows us to connect multiple clouds, multi-vendor clouds together. That is all encompassing the concept of inclusion, including everyone means including every language, and as many standards as you can. So it might sound a little bit like a Tower of Babel, but we do have standards and the standards are HTTP, REST, JSON, JavaScript. It may not be the web we deserve, but it's the web that we have, so we'll use those building block technologies, and then let people do their own thing. >> So speaking of the keynote this morning, one of the cool things you were doing was talking about the rock, paper, scissors game, and how it's expanding. Tell our viewers a little bit more about the new elements to rock, paper, scissors. >> So folks named Sam Kass, a gentleman named Sam Kass many, many years ago on the internet, when the internet was much simpler web pages, created a game called Rock, Paper, Scissors, Lizard, Spock, and a lot of people will know that from a popular TV show on CBS, and they'll give credit to that show, in fact it was Sam Kass and Karen Bryla who created that, and we sent them a note and said, "Hey can I write a game about this?" And we basically built a Rock, Paper, Scissors, Lizard, Spock game in the cloud containerized at scale with multiple languages, and then we also put it on a tiny device, and what's fun about the game from a complexity perspective is that rock, paper, scissors is easy. There's only three rules, right? Paper covers rock, which makes no sense, but when you have five, it's hard! Spock shoots the Rock with his phaser, and then the lizard poisons Spock, and the paper disproves, and it gets really hard and complicated, but it's also super fun and nerdy. So we went and created a containerized app where we had all different bots, we had node, Python, Java, C#, and PHP, and then you can say, I'm going to pick Spock and .net, or node and paper, and have them fight, and then we added in some AI, and some machine learning, and some custom vision such that if you sign in with Twitter in this game, it will learn your patterns, and try to defeat you using your patterns and then, clicking on your choices and fun, snd then, clicking on your choices and fun, because we all want to go, "Rock, Paper, Scissors shoot!" So we made a custom vision model that would go, and detect your hand or whatever that is saying, this is Spock and then it would select it and play the game. So it was just great fun, and it was a lot more fun than a lot of the corporate demos that you see these days. >> All right Scott, you're doing a lot of different things at the show here. We said there's just a barrage of different announcements that were made. Love if you could share some of the things that might have flown under the radar. You know, Arc, everyone's talking about, but some cool things or things that you're geeking out on that you'd want to share with others? >> Two of the things that I'm most excited, one is an announcement that's specific to Ignite, and one's a community thing, the announcement is that .net Core 3.1 is coming. .net Core 3 has been a long time coming as we have began to mature, and create a cross platform open source .net runtime, but .net Core 3.1 LTS Long Term Support means that that's a version of .net core that you can put on a system for three years and be supported. Because a lot of people are saying, "All this open source is moving so fast! "I just upgraded to this, "and I don't want to upgrade to that". LTS releases are going to happen every November in the odd numbered years. So that means 2019, 2021, 2023, there's going to be a version of .net you can count on for three years, and then if you want to follow that train, the safe train, you can do that. In the even numbered years we're going to come out with a version of .net that will push the envelope, maybe introduce a new version of C#, it'll do something interesting and new, then we tighten the screws and then the following year that becomes a long term support version of .net. >> A question for you on that. One of the challenges I hear from customers is, when you talk about hybrid cloud, they're starting to get pulled apart a little bit, because in the public cloud, if I'm running Azure, I'm always on the latest version, but in my data center, often as you said, I want longer term support, I'm not ready to be able to take that CICD push all of the time, so it feels like I live, maybe call it bimodal if you want, but I'm being pulled with the am I always on the latest, getting the latest security, and it's all tested by them? Or am I on my own there? How do you help customers with that, when Microsoft's developing things, how do you live in both of those worlds or pull them together? >> Well, we're really just working on this idea of side-by-side, whether it be different versions of Visual Studio that are side-by-side, the stable one that your company is paying for, and then the preview version that you can go have side-by-side, or whether you could have .net Core 3, 3.1, or the next version, a preview version, and a safe version side-by-side. We want to enable people to experiment without fear of us messing up their machine, which is really, really important. >> One of the other things you were talking about is a cool community announcement. Can you tell us a little bit more about that? >> So this is a really cool product from a very, very small company out of Oregon, from a company called Wilderness Labs, and Wilderness Labs makes a micro-controller, not a micro-processor, not a raspberry pie, it doesn't run Linux, what it runs is .net, so we're actually playing Rock, Paper, Scissors, Lizard, Spock on this device. We've wired it all up, this is a screen from our friends at Adafruit, and I can write .net, so somehow if someone is working at, I don't know, the IT department at Little Debbie Snack Cakes, and they're making WinForms applications, they're suddenly now an IOT developer, 'cause they can go and write C# code, and control a device like this. And when you have a micro-controller, this will run for weeks on a battery, not hours. You go and 3D print a case, make this really tiny, it could become a sensor, it could become an IOT device, or one of thousands of devices that could check crops, check humidity, moisture wetness, whatever you want, and we're going to enable all kinds of things. This is just a commodity device here, this screen, it's not special. The actual device, this is the development version, size of my finger, it could be even smaller if we wanted to make it that way, and these are our friends at Wilderness Labs. and they had a successful Kickstarter, and I just wanted to give them a shout out, and I just wanted to give them a shoutout, I don't have any relationship with them, I just think they're great. >> Very cool, very cool. So you are a busy guy, and as Stu said, you're in a lot of different things within Microsoft, and yet you still have time to teach at community college. I'm interested in your perspective of why you do that? Why do you think it's so important to democratize learning about how to do this stuff? >> I am very fortunate and I think that we people, who have achieved some amount of success in our space, need to recognize that luck played a factor in that. That privilege played a factor in that. But, why can't we be the luck for somebody else, the luck can be as simple as a warm introduction. I believe very strongly in what I call the transitive value of friendship, so if we're friends, and you're friends, then the hypotenuse can be friends as well. A warm intro, a LinkedIn, a note that like, "Hey, I met this person, you should talk to them!" Non-transactional networking is really important. So I can go to a community college, and talk to a person that maybe wanted to quit, and give a speech and give them, I don't know, a week, three months, six months, more whatever, chutzpah, moxie, something that will keep them to finish their degree and then succeed, then I'm going to put good karma out into the world. >> Paying it forward. >> Exactly. >> So Scott, you mentioned that when people ask for advice, it's not about what language they do, is to, you know, is to,q you know, we talk in general about intellectual curiosity of course is good, being part of a community is a great way to participate, and Microsoft has a phenomenal one, any other tips you'd give for our listeners out there today? >> The fundamentals will never go out of style, and rather than thinking about learning how to code, why not think about learning how to think, and learning about systems thinking. One of my friends, Kishau Rogers, talked about systems thinking, I've hade her on my podcast a number of times, and we were giving a presentation at Black Girls Code, and I was talking to a fifteen-year-old young woman, and we were giving a presentation. It was clear that her mom wanted her to be there, and she's like, "Why are we here?" And I said, "All right, let's talk about programming "everybody, we're talking about programming. "My toaster is broken and the toast is not working. "What do you think is wrong?" Big, long, awkward pause and someone says, "Well is the power on?" I was like, "Well, I plugged a light in, "and nothing came on" and they were like, "Well is the fuse blown?" and then one little girl said "Well did the neighbors have power?", And I said, "You're debugging, we are debugging right?" This is the thing, you're a systems thinker, I don't know what's going on with the computer when my dad calls, I'm just figuring it out like, "Oh, I'm so happy, you work for Microsoft, "you're able to figure it out." >> Rebecca: He has his own IT guy now in you! >> Yeah, I don't know, I unplug the router, right? But that ability to think about things in the context of a larger system. I want toast, power is out in the neighborhood, drawing that line, that makes you a programmer, the language is secondary. >> Finally, the YouTube videos. Tell our viewers a little bit about those. you can go to D-O-T.net, so dot.net, the word dot, you can go to d-o-t.net, so dot.net, the word dot, slash videos and we went, and we made a 100 YouTube videos on everything from C# 101, .net, all the way up to database access, and putting things in the cloud. A very gentle, "Mr. Rodgers' Neighborhood" on-ramp. A lot of things, if you've ever seen that cartoon that says, "Want to draw an owl? "Well draw two circles, "and then draw the rest of the fricking owl." A lot of tutorials feel like that, and we don't want to do that, you know. We've got to have an on-ramp before we get on the freeway. So we've made those at dot.net/videos. >> Excellent, well that's a great plug! Thank you so much for coming on the show, Scott. >> Absolutely my pleasure! >> I'm Rebecca Knight, for Stu Miniman., stay tuned for more of theCUBE's live coverage of Microsoft Ignite. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, Nevada. It's the Cube covering Accelerate 2017, brought to you by Fortinet. Now here are your hosts Lisa Martin and Peter Burris. >> Hi welcome back to the Cube. I'm Lisa Martin joined by my co-host Peter Burris and we are with Fortinet in beautiful Las Vegas at their Fortinet Accelerate 2017 event. A great event that brings together over 700 partners from 93 countries. And right now we're very excited to be joined by one of their technology partners, Carbon Black. Jim Rein, welcome to the Cube. >> Thank you very much, I appreciate it. Great to be here. >> Absolutely. You are a key alliance partner, Carbon Black, as you're the director of technology alliances. I knew you've been at Carbon Black for three years but you're quite the veteran in terms of technology, engineering, sales, channel services expertise, quite the veteran, quite the sage. But some interesting things that I wanted to let our viewers know about Carbon Black, and we'll have you expand upon this is that you guys are the leading cloud based endpoint security company that stops cyber threats. And that your roots are actually in offensive security. You now protect more than seven million endpoints worldwide and 30 of the Fortune 100 are your customers. Tell our viewers a little more about Carbon Black. what are you doing? What are some of the things that you are seeing as security now as a boardroom level topic? >> We're seeing a lot of changes. It's the idea of taking an endpoint context, what's actually happening at the endpoints. The endpoints are always the real source of where the attacker was really targeting to get to the information. For such a long period of time we've used legacy technology to really to do that. So we're looking at what are some things that we need to do now to really change that entire game. And one of the key things about that is looking beyond just simple files. Malware's bad, we know that, and we have great ways of stopping that for years and our attackers are moving well beyond just malware today and they're moving really into leveraging different attacks by actual actors within the customers' environments. And so we're really positioning ourselves to stop those next threats, the new threats that we're seeing and do it in such a way that it's very easy for a customer to do. Still manage, still maintain it, and then integrate that with other things. >> And I think the key word is integrate it with other things. Because it's not just enough to know what the endpoint's doing, you have to know what the endpoint's doing in the context of what its supposed to be able to do with those other things. Talk a little bit about that and Fortinet come together for customers. >> So it was really important. We've had a really strong opinion that open APIs are very important. The idea that we're better together than we are apart. And that really is true in security. For too long we've had different vendors that have tried to installing everything under one roof and the problem is that most customers will make financial investments within a given product and then they need to capitalize on that, on every single new product they bring on board. With us at Endpoint Contacts we really wanted to make sure that our endpoint data, the actual vision of what we're seeing, could be shared with network entities, could be shared with a sock. And so the sock can have a holistic picture of the entire environment not just on premise but also off. >> Talking about endpoints, tablets, mobile, the proliferation of IOT devices, how does a company nowadays that, we we're talking off air, but the day of everyone getting issued a phone or a Black Berry is over. But when we're all providing our own devices as employees, how realistic is it for a company to actually secure the things that I as an employee are doing with my own devices? On a corporate network. >> It's really tough. It's really tough. We have to control the things we can control, right? Which are the endpoints that we issue. So the laptops, the desktops, the home systems. For a lot of engineers now with a remote context, they're working from home on an iMac. We need to be able to protect that as it was on a corporate network. And so part of that is taking that off network devices, but enabling the corporate assets, the actual on network devices, to leverage that. And that's what we've done with Fortinet. We leverage the FortiSandbox so that whenever we see a brand new binary on an endpoint, we can submit that to FortiSandbox and say, is it good or is it bad? Obviously we don't know that binary at that point, we're making a determination. And if FortiSandbox comes back and says that is malicious, we can not only stop it from executing again, but also terminating in motion. >> One of the things I'm curious about, during the general session this morning, there was a Cecil panel of Levis, AT&T, and Lizard was there. There were also some great customer videos. Pittsburgh Stealers. And some other telecommunications companies. When we're talking about what you're doing at Fortinet, expand upon that a little bit more in terms of the integration. Also are you focused on certain industries that might be at higher risk? Health care, financial services, for example? >> I mean I'd like to say yes, but honestly I think everybody's at a high risk. The hard part today is that attackers are going after wherever they can find the most valuable data to them. And it's not based upon my role or my job or my industry, it's based upon what that attacker actually needs. And so we see it in small mom and pop shops, we see it in health care, we see it in finance. Definitely see it in retail a lot recently and manufacturing. And so we really view it as the customer needs to take a proper assessment, understand where their assets are, and then deploy multiple different layers, which includes an endpoint solution, to actually stop that. So you take our next generation endpoint. You take Fortinet's advanced capabilities on the network. You take the visibility what they've done with the fabric, and now all of a sudden you have this really great solution that does protect the assets they can control. For IOT I mean honestly that'll be something that we'll have to challenged for with a while. But if these can segment that a little bit and protect what I can control, I don't throw my hands up and say I can't do anything. Now I have IOT segment in such a way that I can properly address that with an overall posture. >> Can we presume that your customers have this awareness as knowledge that we're already breached, we now have to be providing or limiting damage? Is that the feeling and the vibe that you're getting when you're talking to customers about endpoint security? >> We hope so. We came out about three years ago and said that there's an assumption of breach. Which is don't assume you won't be, assume it's already happened. And assume you just don't know about it. And that's really a reality I think for a lot of people nowadays. You know Ponamon does a really great yearly expose where it talks about how long a breach has occurred within environments, and it's 200 plus days or some number. The point is it's always a significant amount of time. So the ability to have more visibility within a network, not only on the network side but also on the endpoint side, and combine that into one view is so important. Because most customers honestly don't know they have that. And then what it is, it's a panic situation. And that's rough. >> But increasingly, in enterprise, it's providing service to a customer or partner, is really providing service to an endpoint somewhere. >> It is. >> And so we know for example that when the bad guys are trying to do something malicious, they're just not getting into your network, and working their way through your systems until they can find the most valuable data. They also know that if you are a trading partner, that even if your data is not that valuable, the trading partner's data may be very valuable. And so they are hopping corporate boundaries as well. And so trading partners absolutely have to be able to secure and validate that their relations are working the way that they're supposed to be working. So how does my ability to be a trading partner go up and down based on my ability to demonstrate that I've got great endpoint security in my business? >> You know it's a great question, because I don't know of too many customers that have a strict validation to say if I'm a partner of yours, not a technology partner but a business partner, that I expect you to maintain a certain level of security protection. There's just an automatic assumption that we partner with you know Sea-bil or somebody else and of course they have a protection enabled. I think you have to raise it up a level. So we have to have a policy mindset to not say that you know obviously we have different solutions deployed, but what have I enabled? From a very broad perspective, what kind of things do I allow my endpoints or do I allow my network to do? What kind of things do I disallow, do I block? Do I have control of domain admin? Something as simple as that. But that forms a policy, and then different companies can match policies together and say, yes you actually do comply with our policy or our security posture, therefore we're going to enable the partnership. Because you're right. If I come in through a partner, does that allow my insurance to cover me from a cyber protection perspective? That may be disallowed because it may be seen as an authorized entry within an environment, not a breach. And so there's all kinds of complexities that come out of that. But we have to have a better way of communicating between our companies. >> So as Ken Xie, the CEO of Fortinet, talked about this morning in his key note. He was talking about the evolution of security, going from the perimeter to web, and web 2.0, cloud, and now we're moving towards 2020 in this time of needing to have resilience and automation. And it's also an interesting time as we get towards 2020, and that's not that far away. You know this is 2017, if you can believe that. The proliferation of mobile and IOT and tablet, I mean there's suspected to be about 20 billion IOT devices connected in 2020, and only about a billion PCs. As you see that proliferation, and you look at the future from an endpoint perspective, how has the game changed today, and how do you expect the game for endpoint security to change in the next few years as we get to 2020? >> I mean it's interesting, because I remember the days when I was first installing the firewall, the only one in my enterprise, and working through that, that kind of perimeter and barrier concept. And now that barrier's disappeared. So we see a lot of things moving to cloud. And I think that really is the key enabler. What Fortinet is doing with the structure, they're really targeting for a cloud controller, cloud protection, we're seeing it from a lot of vendors. There's a lot of focus on that right now. Because if I have a mobile device, I may not be able to attach the mobile itself, because of the operating system or restrictions from the provider like IOS has in it. But I can control the application, I can tie into that. And if I tie that back to my corporate environment, so the same policies are being applied, and I can apply that down to my endpoint to make sure that at least from an application perspective, what's running on my laptop is the same control segment running on my application in the cloud. I now have a better control of the entire environment. And I think that's where our first step is. There's going to be a lot of advances I believe really in the next 10 years, five years or less for 2020, that really bring about some unique things concerning to mobile and IOT. >> Can you share with us a little bit more exactly how your technologies integrate with Fortinet's technologies, especially kind of looking at the announcements today? What they're doing with FortiGate, the announcements with the operating system? >> Absolutely. So today from an endpoint perspective, anytime we see a binary that comes on from our CB protection product, we'll send that to FortiSandbox. First we'll quarry it, find out whether or not they've seen it before. If they haven't, we'll send it to them, and they can do a detonation. Obviously we're taking the results of that back and we're making a block determination on that. Obviously those are things that we haven't already seen before. So different protection modes, different protection policies are in place. But if I haven't seen that particular binary, something brand new, it could be malicious, it could be a zero day. I can play that against the FortiSandbox and find out whether or not it actually does have that malicious nature to it and then act upon it. >> I've always though of endpoint security, and tell me if I'm right, as the first line of defense. >> It is. We've always thought of the firewall as the first line, because we think outward in. But really it is inward out, because you use your laptops at home, right? So it is the first place that everything always starts. >> So it's the first line of defense, to my perspective, and increasingly as businesses deliver, provide, or their services are in fact based on data, that that notion of the first line of defense creates new new responsibilities for both customers as well as vendors, as well as sellers. So over the next few years, how is that notion of the first line of defense going to change? Are we going to see customers start thinking about this, and whether or not I'm a good customer? How do we anticipate kind of some of the social changes that are going to be made possible by evolution of endpoint security and how it will make new demands on endpoint security? >> It's going to start with more visibility. I don't mean that in a very broad sense. But today we have antivirus solutions that we're really targeted about, just simply binary yes or no. Do I allow something to execute or not? And that worked very well 10 15 years ago. Increasingly over time we know that it really hasn't, because advanced attacks have come around. So now we're applying more visibility to that endpoint, saying what actually is occurring, and how are those processes working together? If I see something operate from an email file, I click on it, something else happens, now all of a sudden there's code executing. That sequence of events or that stream becomes very very important for the visibility standpoint. Our project CB defense takes that streaming prevention. We say what is the risk factor scoring that we've applied to this, and how does that sum together not only blocking good and bad, but now I'm getting to actions. So now that I'm paying more attention, that rolls into what are users doing? What are they actually doing on the endpoints, and how does that policy dictate? I think for so long we've said that we can't approach endpoints because we can't control them, and that's the CEO's device or whatever it is. We're really changing that methodology. I think mindset wise people are okay with I need more controls on the endpoint, I need more capabilities. That's going to start transitioning to having conversations about well how do you control your endpoints? And suddenly there's more of a focus, besides just saying do you have something installed to block stuff? That conversation got really short, because it just doesn't work today. So I'm not saying do I have Carbon Black installed or anything else installed, it's what am I doing, what policy am I applying there, and then how does that match up to my business partners? >> I've made commitments to this customer, this customer's made commitments to me. Are those commitments being fulfilled, and is someone trying to step beyond those commitments to do something bad? >> I never want to be the source of an attack to my partner. (laughing) That would be the worst. >> And well there are some very high profile cases where an HVAC company for example suddenly discovered that they were a security risk to some very very big companies. It wasn't supposed to happen that way. >> And to your point before, it was an HVAC company. Nobody thought about HVAC being a targeted industry. >> A critical infrastructure, right, right. >> Exactly, it doesn't matter. People are after the data. They're after what's on the endpoint, and that's why we need to protect the endpoints as the first step. But obviously combining that with a bigger motion, because it's not all endpoint. There has to be a network barrier. You have to have other things involved. There's cloud now and were transitioning to Quickway, and that's where partnerships are going to be formed. I really believe that you're going to see more and more partnerships over time with this collective nature of leveraging Fortinet calls it the intent-based networking, right? So intent-based, what is the intent behind it? What is the attacker really trying to do? And I love that and that concept, because it really does match up well with us. >> Well but as security practices and technologies improve in one area, security practices and technologies have to improve in all areas. Otherwise one part of that security infrastructure becomes the point that everybody's using for the attack. >> A vulnerability, right. >> Yeah, it's a vulnerability. My point is a lot of people are now starting to think, oh endpoint security, that's not that, this. No, that too has to evolve. And it's going to create value, and it has to, in context, it has to evolve in the context of the broader class of attacks and the things that people are trying to do with their data in digital business. >> Absolutely. I think that a lot of customers have realized that they're making that a part of their overall security planning. You know for three years our what am I going to do, and where do I stand at today? And obviously there's existing license cycles and things like that on the network side as well. But I think a lot of customers are starting to formulate a whole plan about how do I look at my entire infrastructure? Forget what I have. Let me say I want to have certain protections in place. First off, do I have them? And if not can I plug something in that actually still will seamlessly integrate? And that's a really important point for a lot of our customer base. >> And speaking on kind of giving you the last word Jim, you both talked about evolution here. As we look at where Carbon Black is today, you were just named by Forrester as the market leader for endpoint security, fantastic. Looking at that going into 2017 as we're in January 2017, the announcements from Fortinet today. What most excites you about this continued technology partnership? >> Continued with Fortinet? >> With Fortinet, yes. >> Okay, I thought you were talking over all, it's good. Honestly it's something as simple as their approach to the APIs. I mean it sounds silly, but at the end of the day, if their approach is really to leverage and to work with other partners, and that's what ours has been for a long time. So we're not saying it just has to be our product, it just has to be our solutions. They're saying whatever the customer is already invested in, we're going to make it better. And that's a strong message we've had for a long time as well. I don't care what you've put in for a firewall necessarily. But I do want to be able to integrate with that, because the customer needs that. It's not me being very selfish so to speak. Customers are demanding that they have a simpler solution to manage. And it's that simplistic way, that's where we're headed from and endpoint perspective, of having a solution that actually takes in everything from the environment and really makes it a common view, for the instant responder and the personnel. >> And it's all essential for digital business transformation which is as we've been talking about Peter is the crux of that is data and that. Well Jim Rein from Carbon Black, thank you so much for joining us on the Cube today. And on behalf of Peter Burris and myself Lisa Martin, we thank you so much for watching the Cube, and we're going to be right back.