(upbeat music) >> Narrator: Live from Vancouver, Canada, it's theCUBE covering OpenStack Summit North America, 2018, Brought to you by Red Hat, the OpenStack foundation, and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back, I'm Stew Miniman here with theCUBE's coverage of OpenStack Summit 2018 in Vancouver. My co-host is John Troyer. Happy to welcome to the program, we have Berna Devrim, who is the Senior Director of Product Marketing of Platform at Red Hat. And we are thrilled to have a customer on, Nico Wellner, who's a Unix Systems Engineer with Finanz Informatik out of Germany. Thank you both so much for joining. Alright, Berna let's start with you. Just give, your first time on the program I believe, so a little bit about your background. You've been with Red Hat less than a year so tell us your role there. >> Yeah, yeah I've been at Red Hat for nine, 10 months now. I've very very excited to be here in the Open Source community development model. It's a very unique opportunity, as I've been leading the platform's marketing, which includes Red Hat Enterprise Linux, as well as Red Hat Virtualization, and Red Hat OpenStack platform, of course, which is why we are here at OpenStack summit. >> Great. We've got Rhel, and RHV, and RHOSP, and lots of other "LMNOP's." So Nico, give us a little bit about your background. Tell us about your organization and then lets get into the mini case study we'll do with you. >> It's an honor for me to be here. Thank you very much for this. I working for Finanz Informatiks, as you said, and it's a centralized IT service provider in the S Finance Group in Germany, for savings banks and state banks. We always have about 400 institutes. Savings banks, individual savings banks. On our systems we are supporting more than 120 million accounts, bank accounts, nearly half of them online accounts. We also develop the software for the savings banks for our customers, not savings banks only. Also, assurances and state banks. We operate the applications we developed previously. It's a huge and amazing company with a lot of different groups and systems. >> Well, we're really glad you could make it here. With GDPR banging down the door in just a couple of days we expect everybody in Europe to be pretty busy getting ready for that. Tell us your role inside the organization. What's your team do? Your title has Unix in it, so what's that entail? Give us the scope of what you cover. >> I'm assistant engineer, as you said and I'm working in the department. We are integrating and operating the Unix systems, which are AIX, we have a huge AIX, and why-mite and a huge Lenox, and why-mite in our data centers. On these Lenox systems, we started with OpenStack in 2014, with testing, and went into production in 2015, half a year later. We integrated OpenStack. We operated and served for our customers internally on the OpenStack platform. We host one of our core applications, it's the internet banking for our customers, as I said for about 50 millions account. We have multiple OpenStack Clouds. My department is responsible for the clouds and for operating them well. >> Nico I wonder if we step back for a second and what led to you going down this path. Was the company figuring out its cloud strategy? Obviously financial institutions, we understand there's governance, compliance, security is a huge concern. What does Cloud mean to your team? What led you to OpenStack? Let's start with kind of that problem statement that you had. >> Yeah, it was the main reason we introduced OpenStack was the time to market was our applications, it was our environment. And it's a plummet process. Took a long time normally and the environment. With OpenStack we could dramatically increase the time to deploy the systems from days or weeks to minutes. So we solved one huge problem with OpenStack. What was another reason was vendor lock-in. We wanted to avoid vendor lock-in. So we decided for OpenStack because it's a huge open source software, great community, and very stable, in our case. So it's OpenStack for us. >> So Berna, I've actually had the opportunity to interview quite a few Red Hat customers. I remember three years ago we were actually in the other hallway here talking to FICO about their role out of Red Hat OpenStack. I hear some similar themes, but you've got access to way more customers than I do. What are you hearing from customers in general? Is this kind of the typical? Is speed and agility at the top of the list when it comes to their Cloud environment? >> Exactly Stew, just like Nico said, actually. Our customers tell us all the time that it is about speed and agility. But it's also about different types of use cases and the workloads that they're actually looking at in their environments. Very popular ones, the use cases are. For example, scale-out IS, as well as they have test environments for the clouds needs applications, for example. Also we do see that big data analytics, NFV also. So there are many different types of use cases we see from our customers. We also have been hearing that they are actually using Open Shift on top of the Red Hat OpenStack platform. Majority of them are either deploying it or planning to deploy containers. So we do see a lot of different, but similar, aspects as well. >> Yeah. Nico have you started to go down that path with containers, Kubernetes, all that stuff yet? >> Not so far. We plan to do so. In general will use containers, we are planning to. But we already started the process, but it would take a little bit. I'm saying that we're not sure if start with OpenStack, containers on OpenStack or plain, but I think that with OpenStack could be a great way to do so. Because one of the reasons is our OpenStack environment is very reliable. This is important for us, very important for us and our customers. Over the years, as I said, since 2015 we had no outage due to OpenStack and the whole environment is great for us. >> That's great. So where are you now in your Red Hat OpenStack deployment? You have an OpenStack in production and now you're already a Red Hat customer in other products and you're now going out with Red Hat OpenStack platform, is that correct? >> Yes that's correct, yeah. >> I'm kind of curious. One of the conversations around OpenStack is the component nature of it and that many OpenStack deployments are different. So as you're now deploying Red Hat and you were already on OpenStack, are the skills transferable? Do you find the the processes transferable? Do you feel that this was a good investment, no up time for three years now and now you're moving to this new platform. Do you and your team feel like you're able to properly instrument and maintain and operate it? >> I think it's the best platform for us for infrastructure and management, Lenix and why-mite. We want to in-wolf it furthermore. >> Stew: And the skills will still transfer? The skills you've known for years will still transfer to the new OpenStack? >> Yes we have only a few people working actively on the design and the architecture, and operating for OpenStack. It's turned out that we could do fine with them. Now we have huge experience with OpenStack, feel comfortable with it. We are planning to increase the OpenStack environment, slightly I think. But scale out works great for us. The OpenStack itself, in our case, we could very flexible do a systems releases, which is one important thing for us. I think the OpenStack itself is the best platform for us and our application tools. >> That's great. Berna I was at Red Hat Summit and the interesting thing there for me was the portfolio, the breadth of portfolio, right? One of the messages was clear. You've always depended on Red Hat Enterprise Lenix, and that's still there and containers are Lenix. There was lot of multi-cloud talk and stuff like that, and OpenStack was part of the mix. Can you talk a little bit about OpenStack as part of the Red Hat portfolio and what you all are bringing to the table, and how you're thinking of open shift on OpenStack and that sort of thing? >> Yeah, exactly. As you pointed out Red Hat is all about open hybrid cloud. Within that Red Hat OpenStack platform plays a big role, of course as you can imagine. What we are trying to do at OpenStack platform is to help our customers like Nico get towards the digital transformation. With that comes, again, the need for speed and agility. What we are enabling with OpenStack platform is we would like to call it powering the digital transformation through enabling our customers to accelerate their businesses by simplifying their applications and delivery as well as the services delivery, which then, of course, moves towards innovation, fast innovation at the speed of the business. At the same time, we are trying to enable IT teams to be empowered so that they can actually do the innovations at their own pace without worry, with all of the Red Hat portfolio, as you pointed out. Yeah. >> Nico, we'd love to hear your take on digital transformation. I think back, five years ago we were talking about financial institutions, oh well we need to go mobile. Well it's much more than that for most companies that I talk to. Do you consider a digital transformation in your company? How does that relate to what IT does to what the business does, to what your users need? >> It's one of our core tasks in our company to help our customers for digital transformation. Finanz Informatik itself sees itself to be the best partner for our customers to do this transformation. With leading technologies like OpenStack and a special case was Red Hat OpenStack, of course, which is a product which enables us to be flexible, secure, and fast with our environment, and to drive this process of digital transformation in the S Finance Group, Savings Finance Group. >> Alright, so you've been at this for three or four years now with OpenStack, I'd love to get what learnings you've had for peers of yours that might be earlier in their journey. What have you learned? What advice might you give them? Let's start there. >> Overall I would say the OpenStack environment is very reliable. More reliable as I thought at the beginning. But it's turned out it's really good. From the automation perspective it's a really nice, let's say tool, for our environment. I found OpenStack is a great project with a lot of software components you can combine. We have a flexible platform. We can add some components we do not have today, but are part of OpenStack community of OpenStack product at all, to enable additional functionalities to the environment, let's say for containers, for object solid, and something like that, and new services for our customers to decrease the time to market. >> Okay. One of the things that this show we're seeing is looking beyond where we've been. I think the keynote this word, people are asking to do more and in more places. Everything from containers, and edge, and server lists, and the like. What's interesting you these days as you look down the road? Different technologies that are in your roadmap in the future, inside or outside OpenStack? >> For our company, we are in the process to integrate new needs for our customers and we are planning to do a lot of big data. Maybe OpenStack could be part of the white platform forward for the future we are planning. I think it will be much more diverse in future because right now we do have one application running on it, one co-application. It's a co-application where we partnered for us. But we will maybe will spread it or enable it for other applications, because of the great experience we've made with it. >> Nico and Berna, thank you so much for giving us the updates on where you stand with OpenStack and all of your deployment. We'll be back here with lots more coverage here at OpenStack Summit 2018 in Vancouver for John Troyer. I'm Stew Miniman. Thanks for watching theCUBE. (techno music)

(techno music) >> Narrator: From Austin, Texas It's theCUBE, covering DockerCon 2017. Brought to you by Docker, and support from EnSync System Partners. >> Welcome back to theCUBE, I'm Stu Miniman, here with Jim Kobielus. Happy to welcome back to the program. Someone we've had on theCUBE many times, Ben Golub, who is the CEO of Docker. Welcome Back. Hey, congratulations to you and the team. >> Oh hey, thank you, and I'd like to say, this is our favorite time of year. Followed very closely by the week after DockerCon and we no longer have to do it. >> Absolutely, I mean, look, I'd say the word that stuck out for me the most this morning is, 'scaleability'. So, we talk about how customers are thinking about scaleability, how you scale the different solutions you have. And, look at the scale of an event like this. So, you know, we've got, you know, this big event here, 5,500 people ... Which we were reminiscing back to like the first DockerCon and the growth of this. It's impressive and it's done really well. I haven't seen people griping about taking an hour to check in, the food's been good ... You know, the lines haven't been. >> Ben: Yeah, good. >> And, Austin always a fun place to come, >> Absolutely. >> Apropos for all the open source stuff that's going on. >> Yeah, the only problem is, this is the first place where we've had a Docker conference, where we haven't been at a port. So, like all of these great, look at the containers ships outside, you know, we can no longer do that. But, that's okay. >> Uh, Vancouver would maybe be good. I remember actually, I did puns for an entire week when we were at Open Stack Summit in Vancouver. Overlooking the bay there cause there is container ships everywhere. >> Ben: Is that right? >> So Ben, you know please just bring us up to speed ... Kind of you, the team, we've gone through a lot of the announcements but, so some of the highlights for it. >> Yeah, I mean, I mean obviously this morning we had a lot of fantastic announcements. We talked about Lenox Kit. We talked about Mobi. You saw, just huge improvements in the developer flow. Tomorrow is going to be a lot about enterprise. For me, that's really the most exciting change that we've seen over the past year. It's just an explosion of Docker and the enterprise. You know, Docker has brought on over 400 enterprise class customers. Some of the largest names uh, really in the industry right? And, some of them like, MetLife and VISA and Intuit, will be talking live tomorrow. Um, and what's been especially interesting for us is that, the use of Docker is not just for Greenfield projects. Um, Docker's being used to keep planes in the air, keep trains running on time, and it's being used in the largest, some of the largest financial transactions, handling, you know, millions and millions of transactions a day, right? And, that's really exciting for us, it's also very humbling. >> All those used cases you throw out, it's Docker cover lots of applications, from a wide variety of things. It reminds of what we've see. >> Right, right. A lot of them are, you know, they're 15 three year old applications as well as, you know, two minute old applications. >> Yeah, and it's something we've been picking at is how much is it the new stuff, and how much is it the platform, that can bring some of the older stuff in. And, then we look at how we change it over time. I think it's something we've been struggling with, kind of, whole cloud and app, you know, modernization, for years now. >> Yeah, well I think it's really good. I think, um, that there's this sort of, there's this fallacy, that sort of persisted for a while, where people thought, okay, you know if you're going to have BiModal IT, there's going to be the new cool stuff down in the containers running the cloud, and then all that old stuff is just going to wither and die in some dark data center somewhere. >> Yeah, right. >> It doesn't match what we hear. >> That's absolutely not the case actually, you know. If we look across our customer base, you know, about 50% of them are beginning their Docker journey with their traditional apps. Now that's not where it ends. But, you know, if you think about it just by taking 80% or 90% of the apps out there, our traditional applications run in, you know, traditional infrastructure. And, just by taking a traditional application, you put it inside of a Docker container, you know, automatically you're getting, without changing a single line of code, something between 75% and 5X better resource utilization. You're able to do simple things like, upgrade your data base, or move from an old machine to a new machine, or old data center to a new data center. Again, without changing a single line of code. But, then the magic starts. >> Right? Then you start taking that traditional application, and treating it in a more modern way. CICD, gradually breaking it down into smaller and smaller bits, and that's the way it goes. >> So, You know, some of has struggled. We said, remember back to virtualization. Virtualization has the easy low hanging fruit of, oh, I can consolidate. I can get great utilization. %I can save a lot of money. I think you did a good job laying out. You know, in your last statement there. But, it's not as simple, you know? When it gets bubbled up to the customers, you know, the board, the sea level, when they're doing this. What is it they're like? What's the initiative they're running? Cause, it's not ... Nobody says, oh I have a container problem. >> Ben: Uh, right, right, we fix it. >> What is that business need, you know, that you're helping to, you're helping them to itch? >> Well, it's something all they need to, they need to be more efficient. They need to be faster, right? >> And, Docker helps you do that if you're running brand spanking new applications. >> Yeah, but she loves that. We talked about that for a while. >> It's agility. But, you know, part of agility is also making sure that your existing applications don't weigh you down, right? And, and that they actually support your business gradually going forward. >> Yeah. And, I mean, one of the things, one of the things that excited me about containers in the early days, is ... I'm an infrastructure guy, and, infrastructure has always held us back. and, the atomic, you know, you know, containers bring the applications really as the atomic note. yIt's not the server or their VM. It's the app, or you know, the 12 factor, you know, app there so. So if the app's driving it, not that infrastructure matters, but, it's not the thing driving it. >> Right, well the ... by focusing on the app, we actually let people choose the infrastructure that they want, or migrate from, you know one style of infrastructure to another style, over time. Uh, what it also though means is, if you're focusing on the app, or on the container, then how do you think about security, and how do you think about networking, and how you think about compliance? Uh, all of those things need a refresh. But, the good news is &once you do that refresh, it's actually much faster, and much more efficient. >> Alright, So you know John Furrier wouldn't let this interview come without, you know popping in. So, he is just sending me a note, and he said, "What is the intersection between the cloud native, and the app developers, that you're seeing?" >> Uh, the internet intersection between the cloud native ... >> Cloud native and app developers. >> Um, you know, I think that developers want to build really cool stuff. And, if they build a cloud native, that's fantastic. Um, if they want to build it, not being cloud native, that's very cool too, right? We're seeing this whole generation of, of developers who, you know, may have been working in Java for the past 15 years, or working in, ah, dot net. Um, They're able to do really, really cool things. Um, With Docker, uh, and it actually helps bring them into the cloud native space. But, you don't have to rewrite an amazing application, just because of your architecture, your infrastructure is changing. >> Yeah, you can wrap and refactor, and migrate your existing applications at the pace that you wish. Uh, rather than being forcibly upgraded or migrated. >> That's right, that's right. You also don't need to know what cloud you're going to be running on four years from now. Or, what infrastructure you're going to be running on, or, what your apps going to be able to do, right? Um, you know, this stuff happens organically with Docker. And, that's really part of the beauty of it. >> You know you are developing for the multi-cloud. In other words, the cloud you're on today, and the clouds you might be on tomorrow, and a flexible or graceful transition. And, you know, it's really cloud churn over time you're going to be on a variety of clouds, and you just want to make sure your applications, and your data and all your assets are easily migrate-able. >> Yeah, I think you stated that really well, and I think especially as people start looking into, you know, applications where they want to burst, or applications that are sort of big data where they want to, you know, be moving the application to the data rather than the date to the applications, right? Um, it needs to be multi-cloud because actually, or multi-location, right? Um, and we're happy to help with that. >> Um, so, we've watched the maturity of the technology, and the growth of the system. I mean, I think a lot of us were really happy. Eco system, I mean, you know, Soloman did a great job of highlighting that. To be honest, some of the swarm stuff, with Docker data center last year, felt like ... >> Felt like we were fighting, yeah. >> It felt like a little bit of fighting, and it feels like we're healing, and we're coming together, and, we're growing that. So, maybe speak on that a little bit. But, the follow up question I have for you on kind of the business is, I think we're still pretty early in the modernization strategy for this. And, I think it's good for people to realize that. That, you know, all of this stuff doesn't happen over night. It's amazing to see how far it's come, you know, In just four years of the company. Um, but, you know, I'll let you riff on those two things. >> Yeah, yeah, I mean, so I'll start with the first one, which is, um, you know, fighting within the eco system. You know, there's this sort of this saying that, you know, people hate people of a slightly different sect, more than they hate pagans, right? (laughing) so I think sometimes within, within like the open source community, oh, you take a slightly different approach towards orchestration than I would of taken, therefore, we should be enemies. And, then suddenly you take a step back and say, "now wait a minute, we're all trying to do the same thing. Build great apps and make the world, uh, enable people to build great things, Right?" And, I think as Solomon laid out today, right? Orchestration, container run time, security, networking, various slavers of the security. These are all things, that actually should be really atomic, and we should be able to all collaborate on them. So, you're seeing a lot more of that. Cause also what we're seeing is in terms of modernization you know, modernization isn't a single, isn't driven by a single factor. It's not driven by orchestration, or it's not driven by networking. It's really, what we're seeing more and more is that it's being driven by the supply chain. And it's how do I as an enterprise, with lots of developers building lots of different types of apps. Some are old, some are new, some are Lenix, some are Windows, some are running on Prim, some are running in the cloud. How do I manage that supply chain, and have it be secure no matter where it's going? And, that's where we're able to add a lot of value. What we're finding as a business, to get to your point. Is that we'll meet the customer wherever they want to start. Our business model, our subscription model, we charge based off of you know, nodes per year, or nodes per minute, if you really want to go there. And, we just let them gradually start using more and more and more. So we're actually very excited. Not only do we have, you know, 400 large customers, and you know, 10,000 smaller customers. But, we're seeing every customer is expanding, is renewing, and so customers who were on 40 nodes six months ago, are now on 400, 500, a 1,000 nodes. We have on 12,000 node customer, uh, and that's really good for our business model. >> Yeah, the other question from Furrier is, you know, what KPI's are you tracking this year? Are you talking, 400 enterprise customers, you look at, you know, the size of how many employees you have, you know. What are some of the growth drivers and levers that you guys are playing with this year? >> Yeah, it's honestly for us, the most important metrics that we're looking at is, is obviously number of new users, how that translates into number of new customers. You know, within the customers, how many nodes are they deploying on, and most importantly, how many more of them? >> What about your host, is that growing too? >> That's growing too, right, right? So, designated containers for host is growing. Ah, and for us, the KPI is okay. You know, how are those customers doing? How many of them are renewing? How many of them are expanding? Um, and for us, you know, I think that sort of brings it back to the customer level. We do a good job with the customers, especially with this subscription business model. I think that sort of forces you to, if you invest in the customer, they're going to invest in you. >> Yeah, um, speaking of money, we've got Cherry Chen coming on next. And, as far as you're saying, there's a lot of top VC's here. What do you see that, what's driving investment in this area? Um, you know, where are you guys with dollars? Anything you can you say on that? Just kind of the VC investment end. >> Okay, tell Furrier if he wants to ask difficult questions, you've got to be sitting here, otherwise ... (laughing) Um, uh, no, so, so, we're seeing ... >> He's shy, he can only talk through an intermediary. >> Yeah. I understand. John is not shy. >> Talk for yourself John. >> Um, we're very happy about what's happening with our modernization. We're seeing the top line growing much, much faster than the expanse line growing. I mean, if we want them to cross right at a certain point. But, it looks like that's going to happen pretty soon here. But, I think there's so much interest in this area, because this is really is much broader than a single application, right? I mean, yeah, you can go out and you can invest in some great sales companies, or, you know, some great open source application companies. But, you know, containerization and dockerization, right? It's really a c-chain, and it's impacting infrastructure, and it's impacting apps. It's impacting networking and storage, and also the other traditional areas, but I think in a really exciting way. >> Yeah, can you speak to the culture of Docker? I remember that first show in 2014, 42 employees. And, now you've got a little over 300. What is, you know, the prototype? What do you look for in a docker, an employee there, you know, what do you see this company being when you're a 1,000 employees? >> That's a really good question? >> How do you motivate them? What is the vision that they're all ... >> Well something like this. This is incredibly motivating. And, I honestly, um, for people at Docker, we look for all different types, sort of say, hey, we kind of like people who are type A personalities, and type B bodies, you know? (laughing) We're really excited, but are able to, you know, run at sprint pace for a marathon. Um, but honestly the things that keep us really, really motivated is, I say, if you're ever feeling down at Docker, go talk to users, go talk to customers, and that will get you excited. I spoke this morning about, ah, TGN, which is this non-profit genomics company. The fact that Docker has enabled them to sequence individual pages of genomes, so much faster, and diagnose them, and cure them faster. You know, you heard the story of the young girl who spent the first 12 years of her life in a wheel chair, barely able to talk. And, now because of things that Docker helped enable, she's out, she's living life like a typical teenager. Wants to become a genomics scientist when she grows up. Going to main stream school. I mean that, that's motivating. And, that helps to deal with the normal trough of oh, okay the code didn't work, we missed the ship date, whatever the case may be. >> Yeah, yeah, you didn't help advertising clicks. You know, you're helping to improve lives. And to that, I love that the show here, you've got some charitable events, that you're contributing to. Are there activities you guys are doing at corporate to help to drive, kind of, civic engagement? >> Um, you know, we do, but what we found is the best is when it comes from, from inside our employee base. Of course, our employee base would really love nothing more than going out, and talking to users, and to some extent we do have a lot of charitable things that we do. It's really exciting to have, 14 and 13 year olds who are using your technology. I mean, who would ever thought? I spent my entire life trying to have something that my kids would think is cool, and actually now, they think Docker is. >> How does it tie in with education? Are you guys helping to, you know, the next generation of active people? >> Absolutely, Docker is actually being used very broadly in computer science courses. Just because, that's basically how teachers want students to submit their, submit their projects to them, submit within the Docker container, right? Of course, we're thrilled that they're learning how to use Docker. It also means that students, they don't need to worry about making sure the student's laptops are set up correctly. They can focus on writing great code. So, yeah, we engage in education. We're doing some educational work with people in San Francisco. Just because that's our home base. And, we're really happy to support you know, three, actually four wonderful charities that are here at DockerCon today. You know, some servicing, LGBT youth, we've got one in the genomics space. Uh, one focused on teaching coding. Uh, and that just kind of ... That really helps to stay motivated. To stay motivated. >> It's a shame that you're not having any fun. >> You know, I'm having a ton of fun. I'm exhausted. I'll probably collapse in a corner. You know, come Friday. >> And as you said, your second favorite week of the year is this week, right? >> Absolutely, absolutely. >> Alright Ben, I want to give you the final word, you know, we've got another day, I'm sure you've got a ton of stuff in the announcements tomorrow. We're going to have Solomon on right after the key note tomorrow, but when people leave Austin, what do you want them to know about, you know, the Docker community and Docker the company? >> You know, I'd say that, you know, Docker is here, Docker is now, Docker is for old and for new, for on premise, and for cloud, for Lenix and for Windows. Docker is here for you, and however you want to use us, we're going to help you do amazing things faster. >> Alright, I think that's wonderful Cube gem to end this on, Ben Golub, CEO of Docker, always a pleasure to talk with you. Congratulations on the show. We are thrilled to be able to be here to cover it. >> Okay. >> And we'll back with one more guest here, on our day one of two days of live coverage, you're watching theCUBE. (techno music)