(upbeat electronic music) >> Announcer: Live from Vancouver, Canada, it's theCUBE, covering OpenStack Summit North America 2018. Brought to you by Red Hat, the OpenStack Foundation, and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to The Cube's coverage of OpenStack Summit 2018 in Vancouver. I'm Stu Miniman with my co-host John Troyer. Happy to welcome back a company we've spoken to a few times at events, Paddy Power Betfair. First time guest coming to us from across the pond, Dave Buckley who is the automation engineer with Paddy Power Betfair, thanks for joining us. >> Thank you for having me. >> Alright, so first of all, you've been to a couple summits and we've talked to Paddy Power about OpenStack. Before we get into your specific implementation, tell us about your experience here this week and any compare, contrast to previous years. >> Yeah so I'm very lucky, I got to come to the previous two summits in North America. I guess what I've enjoyed this week, it's kind of a slight tilt towards, it's away from being purely OpenStack, kind of towards this open infrastructure kind of thing, 'cause like I said, especially last year in Boston, Q and NEs was becoming a big thing. Yeah, and kind of, the OpenStack Foundation becoming kind of more, not that it wasn't before, but more community-based and being part of the ecosystem. So, yeah, I think it's been quite interesting seeing that. >> Not to put words in your mouth but, it was even, the last year or two, it's more aware of some of the complimentary things and adding pieces. You know, we had, one of the interviews we did this week was person who's the SIC lead for the Kubernetes stuff, that sits under another Foundation, things like that. Yeah, exactly. It's been quite interesting this week, I guess, sort the Kata Container project, which wasn't something I'd been aware of before Monday morning basically. I remember we were sitting in the keynotes, and they were like, you can have this container-like thing which has all the speed of a container, but it's as secure as a BM. And you're thinking, how, how is that even possible? So I've really enjoyed, I got to go to one of the sessions yesterday, one of the technical introductions on that. >> Yeah, I always love, there's certain things where, okay, this is what I'm going to do with my schedule, and turns into, this got announced, or I didn't know about this, and you knew, blow up my schedule, let me change everything else. Yeah, exactly, I think you always, you can't, you have to be flexible, right? Adaptable, and as the week goes on you just go to what you think is interesting. >> John: So Dave, you and your company have been working with OpenStack for quite a while. >> Dave: Yeah. >> And you obviously run a system that needs to be stable. Right, needs to, you take care of betting and people's money. >> Dave: Exactly. >> So that needs to be solid. But I understand you recently went though an upgrade and have some experiences talking about that? Can you talk a little bit about where you are with your OpenStack implementation and that sort of migration? >> Sure. So, I guess it's about three years ago, it was Betfair at the time, so this was before the merger of the two companies. So Betfair started using OpenStack, and I think it was actually the last time the summit was here, in Vancouver. So a couple of my colleagues who were kind of the technical leads at the time. Steve Armstrong and Steve Perera, they flew out here, to kind of get a feel for OpenStack, what it was, talk to people who'd had experiences with it. I actually think that conference back then was very informative of what the platform today now looks like. So some of the conversations they had there with people like New Age Networks and Arista, which we used for the switching, but conversations they had there kind of ended up being now what we're using in production. I guess over the past couple of years, so the big thing that happened obviously was this merger between Paddy Power and Betfair, following that they had an exercise which they called the single customer platform, which is annoyingly, for a sys-admin guy, kind of like me, they, it's always been abbreviated to SCP, but you have to ignore that. So that was to kind of consolidate and integrate the Paddy Power and Betfair co-bases and put it on a single platform, which was our OpenStack and Nuage platform. So that kind of completed in January this year, so that's live, so basically the Paddy Power sports book has an entirely new website, all running on OpenStack. A lot quicker and more efficient then the previous version. So that's been a real success. And as part of that, I should say that stability is really vital, so kind of in our business. If the site is down we don't make any money, and if it happens during a big sporting event you have a big problem. >> Do you have a metric around that? What a minute or an hour of down time would be? >> So I guess it always depends, so the nature of our traffic is very spikey. So obviously when you have a big, it's on a Saturday in Europe, the football, soccer, maybe I should say, is like a very big deal. >> We have a global audience, football's okay. >> I'll stick with football then. >> We were all watching the royal wedding. >> I don't want to talk about that. The football, if you, we just get peak traffic on that day. And, even within the year, there's a thing called the Grand National, which is a big event in the UK, big horse racing, I guess like the Kentucky Derby. It's kind of when we get our maximum traffic in the year. Yeah, you always need to be prepared for that. So one of the things as you mentioned, we kind of look into upgrade OpenStack from Kilo to Newton. So we've been on Kilo from the start. We're using Red Hat's distribution of OpenStack, so what Red Hat offer is this, they have like every three releases I think it is? They have this long release life-cycle. So that's kind of the reason we're going to Newton, cause we have kind of the, then the support will go to 2021. [Stu] - But if I remember, it's Red Hat the OpenStack Platform 10. >> Dave: Yeah. >> And 13 is going to be queened as their next one that's going to be released. >> Exactly, so I think they just announced that this week, right? So I think at some point in the next year or two we'd be going to queens. >> How do you determine when you make that jump and anything around the upgrade process, you know, good and bad that you could share. >> Dave: Yeah, so I guess going from, we were overdue an upgrade in this case, Kilos, you know, pretty old now. What we're lucky that we can do is because we have Nuage, it's like an external SDM provider, so the entire data plane is controlled by Nuage, and you can kind of plug as many OpenStacks as you like really into Nuage, and you offload all the networking to Nuage. So what's that's allowed us to do is basically we'd have had a lot of trouble if we'd had to do an in place upgrade, so I've actually been to one of the groups this week, quite a lot of people were talking about upgrades and just like all the nightmares it's caused. I know it's getting better as like the releases come out, but what we were able to do is kind of building new, an entirely new OpenStack cloud on the side of, so we've kind of turned it kind of an immutable OpenStack, so your OSB 7 cloud is there, we built this new OSB 10. But they're both circ into the same networking, so the same Nuage SDN. And the way our developers deploy their applications, I guess you want to see this in more detail, we've done presentations at these summits in the past, but kind of in short, every deployment we do immutable deployments as well, so for every deployment we'll create a new subnet within Nuage, and kind of do rolling update of your VMs that are on that new subnet into like a VIP which is kind of where the constant is, so all the traffic's come in to that VIP then you just flip things in and out below it when you do a deployment, so what that basically means is from a developers point of view, when they're migrating from OSB 7 to OSB 10 they'll essentially spin up new networks and new VMs in OSB 10 and that deployment pipeline will kind of just seamlessly, everything else will stay the same because the networking doesn't change. So we don't have to have any downtime on the data plane or the control plane. Which is really beneficial for us 'cause the way, I guess this is I'll just describe the way developers do deployments like we rely heavily on the OpenStack API being available. You pay a cost in that you, so you need extra hardware to do that I guess, but yeah we found it is something that's worked for us. >> John: Anything else with the networking and specifically that you all are running, the load balancing or resiliency that you need to have for your apps? >> Dave: Yeah so one of the things was, so it's kind of another problem there were trying to solve with this whole project, this new OpenStack platform is that historically Betfair, as it was at the time, had always run out of a single data-center. But we had another site, but it was mainly kind of a development environments right in there. So the company thought why don't we just have, we should just have both DCs for resiliency, try and run things in like an active-active configuration. Which is fine for external customer facing applications where we've had an external load balance server that can point traffic between the two DCs. But then the question is what do you do with internal apps? So this is what led us to use Avi Networks, which is kind of a cloud native load balancing technology, so we've been using to provide like GSLB internal laps, so basically we'll load balance traffic between the two data-centers so it gets deployed within your OpenStack environment, has a really neat integration with Nuage, the Nuage SDN layer, and will resolve you to whichever data-center is appropriate at that time. So if you have a full data-center outtage, you should be able to go "Okay, point stuff over there". >> John: So it makes you and the networking team or the IT team into the heroes not the villains, you're usually the people saying "No" or "We can't do that". >> I guess so, I guess so yeah you're probably right. It's cool technology though. I guess that we're very lucky and that we're given the opportunity by the people at the company to experiment with new things, so even though we're about stability but we're also about trying to push things forward in terms of what technology to use. >> Stu: Dave I'm curious how kind of the hybrid or multi-cloud type of environments fit into what you're doing today, give us the update there. >> Dave: Yeah so that's something very in our radar at the moment I guess it's, yeah it's what everybody's doing, looking to how you can have this hybrid cloud model. So I think, going back three years again, at that time, being like an online betting company, it's a highly regulated business and only at that point it was really possible to kind of put some of this stuff into the public cloud, it seems like things have come a long way, so it's something we're looking at at the moment, we're evaluating different solutions, different vendors like the Googles, AWSs, and seeing or even like some OpenStack public clouds and seeing maybe how could we migrate some workloads out into the public cloud, how do we want to that, to give us more resiliency, and also as I was saying about our spiky traffic, it just makes a lot of sense to be able to say burst out into whichever public cloud vendor on a Saturday when the football's on to deal with that peak load. So it's something we're very much looking at at the moment. But yeah no formal decisions as of yet. Unless they've done something while I've been away. >> John: With containers here at the show, lots of different threads right? Containers, Edge, the OpenDev track, things like that. Anything else, we've talked about Kata, anything else that came up that was interesting here that you just watch Kubernetes and container track as well? >> Dave: So I guess in terms of containers it's, sitting in the Keynotes on Monday you would, if you weren't watching if you were just listening, you probably wouldn't know you were at an OpenStack Summit right since there's as much Kubernetes container stuff as there is OpenStack. It's interesting so we've kind of been doing... Again, similar to the public cloud conversation, it's something that's very relevant to us at the moment, we've done kind of a few proof-of-concept ideas, evaluating different solutions, so we have like running a Cube cluster ourself, obviously we have a strong relationship with Red Hat that we've kind of explored to using OpenShift maybe, and then come the networking layer you can integrate with Nuage which would be really cool for us so it'll allow us to do kind of the all the networking, access control mechanisms as we do for our virtual machines. And again this is also something in the whole public cloud conversation is well if wanted to containers in the public cloud as well like you have all the different offerings, would we want to run our own, in like an AWS or something? Or maybe go to someone like Google where you have that supported self-service model I suppose. But yeah at the moment it's kind of at those stages so I think Steve did a presentation on the Kubernetes stuff like a PCO we done at the last Summit. But yeah still at the moment still want to make some firm decisions about which direction we're going to go but a lot of the developers a very keen for this and obviously for guys like us we all know the value of it so I think at the moment because we had that focus on stability we should now have a period of time where we're able to kind of look at all this stuff a bit more, hopefully get some container solutions into production which would be awesome. >> Stu: Dave Buckley we really appreciate you giving us the update, love to be able to do some of those longitudinal case studies as to where you've been where you're going, what you're thinking about. Be sure to check out thecube.net, you can actually search for Patty Power Betfair, see some of those previous interviews from Dave's peers. Loads more interviews there as well as all the shows we're going to be at in the future where hope you come by and say "Hi". For John Troyer I'm Stu Miniman, thanks so much for watching theCUBE. >> (electro-dance music) >> (soft piano)

>> Announcer: Live from Chicago, Illinois. It's theCUBE. Covering VeeamON 2018. Brought to you by, Veeam. >> We're back at VeeamON 2018 in Chicago. You're watching theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. My name is Dave Vellante with Stu Miniman. Paul Madison is here he's the vice president of global cloud business at Veeam. Cloud, is where all the action is. Paul, thanks for coming back on theCUBE. >> No, Dave good to see you again, Stu good to see you. >> So you guys have made, you know, a major push obviously into the Cloud. We talked about, with Peter, that you know Veeam used to be product company. Now you're a platform company. Platforms beat products as we know and Cloud is a key part of that. It's a distribution channel, it's a technology, it's a disruptive force. What's your take on what's happening in Cloud? >> So, we're loving what's going on in the Cloud market space. I think, and I've talked with you guys about this before, the pace of innovation that's happening is absolutely remarkable. And it's all about delivering value for the customer. I heard Danny talk about business outcomes in the Cloud. We see this again and again, the Cloud is emerging as the platform or series of platforms that customers can drive innovation, can drive business agility. And we're excited about that because as the customers are moving there now we are evolving our platform to allow them to know that no matter what infrastructure, what platform they use they've got an answer in Veeam. Right? From a data protection, intelligent data management perspective... Veeam's got an answer. So, we see incredible market opportunity, we see accelerate in innovation and we see our platform evolving to take advantage of all that. >> So as the head of Cloud at Veeam, how does it work? Do you have product requirements, obviously you've got channel relationships to get building how do you spend your time architecting, I mean, how did you architect sort of the Cloud plan for Veeam? >> Yeah, it's still a work in process obviously. We are constantly evolving it as the market changes, we have to continue to evolve our strategy. But I have a lot of internal partners, you know, I partner really closely with Danny's organization from a product strategy. I partner very closely with Anton Gostev on product management, I partner really closely with Carey Stanton on our alliance partners. Because as you can imagine all of them are moving towards the Cloud or have a Cloud strategy. I work with people on pricing, licensing, sales, and marketing. And it's just this great, wonderful ecosystem that we have internally. Where we assess where we want to be, we assess where the platform has to go and we try to evolve all those things together. It's not trivial, there's a lot of work. Especially as we transition from a product company, to a platform company, to a solution company. But those are the kinds of problems that we like to solve, that's exciting stuff for us. >> Paul, wonder if you could speak a little bit to that partner ecosystem. So, you know, we went through years of public cloud is the enemy or public cloud said everything is going here to, you know, the Cloud service providers. And even the traditional vars and integrators, many of them worked with Microsoft for years. Lots of them now working with Amazon in some way or another. >> Paul: Right. >> Walk through a little bit that dynamic of what you are seeing, of course you play it across all of them so you've got a great vantage point. >> Yeah, sure. It's a great question, and it has, Stu, it's evolved in the last I'd say 18 to 24 months. It used to be, when I first started at Veeam, I went to a partner conference and I was six weeks into my tenure at Veeam and I came from Microsoft Azure And the looks on the peoples faces was, oh my God, you know, Veeam is going 100% asual. As the Azure guy here public cloud was bad, right? And so it lit people up and I tried to, and continue to rapidly assure them, no, that's not the enemy, that's not where we're going. We see an evolution now where we do see some Cloud service providers saying, we have to understand that customers want to go there, so I need to be a part of that market. That's why we're making the choices that we're making in terms of how we engineer the platform is that it's about customers having choice. And so, it's not the easiest dynamic to manage, as you might be aware of. But there is value, you see firms that will, now are starting to say, okay I can differentiate based on maybe a vertical orientation that I have. I'm going to specialize by going after the enterprise or by going after health care, financial services. And they're saying alright, those big players are here to stay. I better, I should figure out how to get along with them and how I can add value on top of them. Because from my perspective, and those big hyper scale or public clouds. Sometimes I call them a canvas, you can paint on them. But cloud and service providers can really help bring another level of intimacy to those platforms for their customer and drive value for their customer. So co-opting those large platforms is a good strategy. >> Yeah, alright, so Microsoft background. One of the things that caught our eye is, I believe, it was 2500 downloads already of the Veeam solution. >> Yes. >> For Azure. >> Yes. >> Broad reduction and betaWS, give some color on what's happening with public now. >> Yeah, sure, so we are super excited about what's happening with our Cloud partners. We've had tremendous growth in our VCSP business. We have over 19,000 of them now, globally, which is a huge ecosystem of partners. We've seen 58% year over year growth there. Fantastic growth in the number of machines that are protected by Veeam and Veeam powered services. The AWS marketplace has been, the AWS market is one that we've now, you know, jumped into with our acquisition of N2WS. We've seen terrific, I don't know if you're talking with Ezra or anybody from the N2W side. But they've seen 153% year over year growth since coming on board with Veeam. We have Office365 now, Danny talked a little bit about the new version of that, that we're in private beta of right now. That market is taking off tremendously. We've seen 29,000 downloads of that, 29,000 different customers that have downloaded that. We're currently protecting around three million mailboxes of Office365, so there's just a lot that's, our work with the IBM Cloud, is terrific. They are here, they're our sponsor. Great things going on there, 1,000% growth in the VM's that are deployed using it, on the IBM Cloud. Now their resiliency services practice is building up around Veeam. So there's just this tremendous momentum across all the dynamics of our Cloud business right now. >> Well, customers have to place bets. We love sports analogies in theCUBE. Kentucky Derby just went down, we have the Preakness coming up. And customers I feel like they're placing bets on what's called the under card, right. You've got the big race is the Kentucky Derby, well there's a bunch of races leading up to that, they call that the under card. People warm up, they make little bets here, little bets there. But then when it comes to the big race that's when they put down their big money. And I feel like the Cloud bets have largely been on the under card to date. When you talk to customers, well first of all do you agree with that, and are they asking you, okay, you know, which Cloud should I use where? What bets should I place? Having, you know, run the Azure group, you've got a perspective on this. What do you see customers doing and how do you advise them? >> Yeah, so, that's a great question, what we... So let me take you back a little bit. We did see early on customers that sort of nibbled around the edges, around the under card, and made small bets on it and then for whatever reason made the decision to dive in big. And I think a number of them that didn't work out quite well because as they were going through the under card and managing through that they didn't learn as much as they needed to or the platforms evolved so that they ended up saying, wait a minute, hold on, we maybe shouldn't have made that bet. Alright? So, customers now are, I think they're taking a little more of a smart approach towards it because they realize that, hey, going 100% in with one provider is going to be a challenge, right? They are worried about the old vendor lock in and portability across clouds. We obviously will talk to customers about multi-cloud world, 81% that we surveyed said, I'm not going to have a single Cloud provider. I'm going to try to figure out which work loads to put where. And we're going to continue to help advise them and help figure out how they do that. How those different cloud infrastructures factor into their data protection and availability strategies. >> Yeah, so when you get to the database, the middleware on up and you take that approach. Then, obviously there's substantial skillsets that you're going to need whether you're using, you know, Amazon's databases or Oracle's or IBM's, et cetera. At the infrastructure level, however, and I think this is part of your strategy, you can potentially standardize, you know, you guys want to be the standard for the data protection platform. But you've got to earn their trust and the right to do that. >> Paul: Absolutely. >> But if we're understanding that right, that is the strategy, right? To sort of take that stress away from them, let them worry about which database, which SaaS application. But from an infrastructure stand point, you can rely on Veeam to be that data protection platform. >> That's exactly right. And I think when you were talking with Danny earlier is any app, any data, any cloud. Regardless of where you want to go, bet on us, we've got the answer for you. >> Okay so then follow-up question. Why you guys? You've got system vendors, you've got storage vendors, you know, to a certain extent you got quasi security players. Big established companies, start-ups. Why Veeam? >> Well, I think because of a couple of reasons. First of all the platform is extensive and continuing to grow. And we, I'm thrilled that we are, you know, we've got the platform elements of it. I think you said earlier, platforms always trump products. I'm a firm believer in that. I love platforms. I think the second reason is we're a partner driven and customer driven organization. I know that sort of, that can sound like sort of mom and apple pie but the reality is we are 100% channel focused. We don't compete with those channel partners, we don't compete with cloud service providers. We can enable all of them. And so you've got a great platform, with a great organization that knows how to partner and wants to partner. Those two things come together and make us a great choice. >> How do you, I haven't asked anybody this, I wonder if you'll give us your perspective. Because you're pure channel, how do you, and at the same time customer driven, how do you get that feedback? Obviously you go in with channel partners but how do you ensure that you're getting the high fidelity feedback from the customers? >> So, get with the customer. (laughing) You know, we're 100% channel driven but we are arm in arm with our channel partners. It's not, you know, in some areas of the business, yes there's a lot that goes on that Veeam folks don't get involved with. But when it matters, when it counts, we're arm in arm with our channel partners. We go and visit together, we spend that time, we invest that time. We do partner advisory councils, we do customer advisory boards. You know, we're not... It's not diffused through the channels, I guess is what I want to say. It's very much a true partnership where we are engaged fully. >> Okay, let's get into it. You're a Philly fan, your boss is a Patriots fan. >> Paul: I've heard that, yes. >> You got, I mean. Listen, as a long time Philly fan it's like one of the best feelings in the world when your team wins the Super Bowl. First of all, having your team in the Super Bowl for two weeks having that hype lead up is just the greatest thing in the world, even though you just can't wait for kick-off. But I got to say congratulations. >> Thank you. >> I know you've got to feel good about that. >> Thank you, we feel great about it. It took us a couple of days to catch our breath after the game and quite frankly even during the game. Hey, listen, Tom Brady, two minutes ago has the ball, we were all getting ready to leave the party because we said, hey, we've seen this movie before, we know what's going to happen. Go down the field, touchdown. We're out. >> You can't watch. >> Can't watch it, can't watch it. I really didn't watch the last 30 seconds of the game 'cause I just had my (laughs). No we were super happy about it, I will be honest and say it's been a source of on-going rivalry inside of Veeam. Because we have quite the Boston contingent. But, we've got the trophy. >> Well, pretty amazing that, well 'cause Philly had the really outstanding defense >> Yeah. >> Which everybody tries to predict before the game, right, and then Brady shreds the Philly defense. Who would have known that Nick Fowles is going to score every single time he had the ball except the one fluke interception. >> Paul: Yeah. >> It was really an unbelievable game. I mean, as a Pats fan, we were heartbroken, but wow what a game. >> We loved it and, honestly, the guys have been great about it and almost, I don't know if Peter falls in this category, but almost everyone has said, yeah well Philly was the better team. We lost a great game to a better team, there's been no, oh well, one of our guys tried to say, hey, that whole Philly special play should have been called an illegal formation. But then I gave him a list of all the violations that the Patriots have had in the past five years and he's like, okay. >> Yeah you don't want to sound like the raving fan, right? You know, calling the ineligible, eligible. >> Paul: Right. >> Look, Brady, they made that great call. Brady couldn't make the catch, he couldn't make the catch. Nick Fowles made the catch. Okay then when it came down to execution they stared, you know, into the abyss and they didn't blink. I mean, ya got to give em' credit. And Villanova, I mean, that was awesome. >> They were just a machine. >> Sixers, what happened? Big favorite. I think young team. >> Young team, look, they're going to be good for a while. >> Dave: Should be a good rivalry. >> I think Ben Simmons, you know, he's going to come up. Joel Embiid is an absolute beast but I got to hand it to your team and your coach, I mean, I think in some ways we got out-coached a little bit. >> Dave: When Larry Bird came up and Dr. J was, you know, didn't want to relinquish that mantle. That was some of the best rivalries in the early 80's. With the Sixers and the Celtics so hopefully that will get better. >> Paul: Hopefully we'll get that going again. That'll be awesome. >> We love talking sports and we love talking sports with guys in tech that love sports. Paul, thanks very much for coming back. >> Hey, my pleasure man, thanks for having me, really appreciate it, thanks, guys. >> Alright, keep it right there, everybody, we'll be right back with our next guest right after this short break.