>> Narrator: From Burlingame, California, it's theCUBE. Covering Sumo Logic Illuminate 2019. Brought to you by Sumo Logic. >> Hey, welcome back, everybody, Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're at Sumo Logic Illuminate 2019. It's at the Hyatt Regency San Francisco Airport. We're excited to be back. It's our second year, so third year of the show, and really, one of the key tenants of this whole event is the report. It's the fourth year of the report. It's The Continuous Intelligence Report, and here to tell us all about it is the VP of Product Marketing, Kalyan Ramanathan. He's, like I said, VP, Product Management of Sumo Logic. Great to see you again. >> All right, thank you, Jeff. >> What a beautiful report. >> Absolutely, I love the cover and I love the data in the report even more. >> Yeah, but you cheat, you cheat. >> How come? >> 'Cause it's not a survey. You guys actually take real data. >> Ah, that's exactly right, exactly right. >> No, I love them, let's jump into it. No, it's a pretty interesting fact, though, and it came out in the keynote that this is not a survey. Tell us how you get the data. >> Yeah, I mean, so as you already know, Sumo Logic is a continuous intelligence platform. And what we do is to help our customers manage the operations and security of the mission critical application. And the way we do that is by collecting machine data from our customers, and many of our customers, we have two thousand, our customers, they're all running modern applications in the cloud, and when we collect this machine data, we can grade insights into how are these customers building their applications, how are these customers running and securing their application, and that insight is what is reflected in this report. And so, you're exactly right, this is not a survey. This is data from our customers that we bring into our system and then what we do is really treat things once we get this data into our system. First and foremost, we completely anonymize this data. So, we don't-- >> I was going to say Let's make sure we have to get that out. >> Yes, absolutely, so we don't have any customer references in this data. Two, we genericize this data. So, we're not looking for anomalies. We are looking for broad patterns, broad trends that we can apply across all of our customers and all of these enterprises that are running modern mission critical applications in the cloud. And then three, we analyze ten weeks to Sunday. We look at these datas, we look at what stands out in terms of good sample sizes, and that's what we reflect in this report. >> Okay, and just to close a loop on that, are there some applications that you don't include? 'Cause they're just legacy applications that're running on the cloud that doesn't give you good information, or you're basically taking them all in? >> Yeah, it's a good point, I mean we collect all data and we collect all applications, so we don't opt-in applications or out applications for that matter because we don't care about it. But what we do look for is significant sample size because we want to make sure that we're not talking about onesie-twosie applications here or there. We're looking for applications that have significant eruption in the cloud and that's what gets reflected in this report. >> Okay, well, let's jump into it. We don't have time to go through the whole thing here now, but people can get it online. They can download their own version and go through it at their leisure. Biggest change from last year as the fourth year of the report. >> Yeah, I mean, look, there are three big insights that we see in this report. The first one is, while we continue to see AWS rule in the cloud and that's not surprising at all, we're starting to see pretty dramatic adoption of multi-cloud technologies. So, two years ago, we saw a smidgen of multi-cloud in this report. Now, we have seen almost a 50% growth year over year in terms of multi-cloud adoption amongst enterprises who are in the cloud, and that's a substantial jump albeit from a smaller baseline. >> Do you have visibility if those are new applications or are those existing ones that are migrating to different platforms? Are they splitting? Do you have any kind of visibility into that? >> Yeah, I mean, it's an interesting point, and part of this is very related to the growth of Kubernetes that we also see in this report. What ypu've seen is that, in AWS itself, Kubernetes adoption has gone up significantly, what's even more interesting is that, as you think about multi-cloud adoption, we see a lot of Kubernetes, Kubernetes as the platform that is driving this multi-cloud adoption. There is a very interesting chart in this report on page nine. Obviously, I think you guys can see this if they want to download the report. If you're looking at AWS only, we see one in five customers are adopting Kubernetes. If you're looking at AWS and GCP, Google Cloud Platform, we see almost 60% of our customers are adopting Kubernetes. Now, when you put in AWS-- >> One in five at AWS, 60% we got Google, so that means four out of five at GCP are using Kubernetes and bring that average up. >> And then, if you look at AWS, Azure, and GCP, now you're talking about the creme de la creme customers who want to adopt all three clouds, it's almost 80% adoption of Kubernetes, so what it tells you is that Kubernetes has almost become this new Linux in the cloud world. If I want to deploy my application across multiple clouds, guess what, Kubernetes is that platform that enables me to deploy my application and then port it and re-target it to any other cloud or, for that matter, even an on-prem environment. >> Now, I mean, you don't see motivation behind action, but I'm just curious how much of it is now that I have Kubernetes. I can do multi-cloud or I've been wanting to do multi-cloud, and now that I have Kubernetes, I have an avenue. >> Yeah, it started another question. What's the chicken and what's the egg right here? My general sense, and we've debated this endlessly in our company, our general sense has been that the initiative to go multi-cloud typically comes top down in an organization. It's usually the CIO or the CSO who says, you know what, we need to go multi-cloud. And there are various reasons to go multi-cloud, some of which you heard in our keynote today. It could be for more reliability, it could be for more choice that you may want, it could be because you don't want to get logged into any one cloud render, so that decision usually comes top down. But then, now, the engineering teams, the ops teams have to support that decision, and what these engineering teams and these ops teams have realized is that, if they deploy Kubernetes, they have a very good option available now to port their applications very easily across these various cloud platforms. So, Kubernetes, in some sense, is supporting the top down decision to go multi-cloud which is something that is shown in spades as a result of this report. >> So, another thing that jumped out at me, or is there another top trend you want to make sure we cover before we get in some of those specifics? >> I mean we can talk to-- >> Yeah, one of them, one of them that jumped out at me was Docker. The Docker adoption. So, Docker was the hottest thing since sliced bread about four years ago, and is the shade of Kubernetes, not that they're replacements for one another specifically, but it definitely put a little bit of appall in the buzz that was the Docker, yet here, the Docker utilization, Docker use is growing year over year. 30%! >> I'll be the first one to tell you that Docker adoption has not stalled at all. This is shown in the report. It's shown in customers that we talk to. I mean, everyone is down the path of containerizing their application. The value of Docker is indisputable. That I get better agility, that I get better portability with Docker cannot be questioned. Now, what is indeed happening is that everyone who is deploying Docker today is choosing a orchestration technology and that orchestration technology happens to be Kubernetes. Again, Kubernetes is the king of the hill. If I'm deploying Docker, I'm deploying Kubernetes along with it. >> Okay, another one that jumped out at me, which shouldn't be a big surprise, but I'm a huge fan of Andy Jassy, we do all the AWS shows, and one of always the shining moments is he throws up the slide, he's got the Customer slide. >> There you go. >> It's the Services slide which is, in like, 2.6 font across a 100-foot screen that fills Las Vegas, and yet, your guys' findings is that it's really: the top ten applications are the vast majority of the AWS offerings that are being consumed. >> Yep, not just that. It's that the top services in AWS are the infrastructure-as-a-service services. These are the core services that you need if you have to build an application in AWS. You need ECDO, I need Esri, I need identity access management. Otherwise, I can't even log into AWS. So, this again goes back to that first point that I was making was that multi-cloud adoption is top of mind for many, many customers right now. It's something that many enterprises think of, and so, if I want to indeed be able to port my application from AWS to any other environment, guess what I should be doing? I shouldn't be adopting every AWS service out there because if I frankly adopted all these AWS services, the tentacles of the cloud render are just so that I will not be able to port away from my cloud render to any other cloud service out there. So, to a certain extent, many of the data points that we have in this report support the story that enterprises are becoming more conscious of the cloud platform choices that they are making. They want to at least keep an option of adopting the second or the third cloud out there, and they're consciously, therefore choosing the services that they are building their applications with. >> So, another hot topic, right? Computer 101 is databases. We're just up the road from Oracle. Oracle OpenWorld's next week. A lot of verbal jabs between Oracle and some of the cloud providers on the databases, et cetera. So, what do the database findings come back as? >> I mean, look at the top four databases: Redis, MySQL, Postgres, Mongo. You know what's common across them? They're all open-source. They're all open-source database, so if you're building your application, find standard components that you can then build your application on, whether it's a community that you can then take and move to any other cloud that you want to. That's takeaway number one. Takeaway number two, look at where Oracle is in this report. I think they're the eighth database in the cloud. I actually talked to a few customers of ours today. >> Now, are you sampling from Oracle's cloud? Is that a dataset? >> No, this is-- >> Yes, right, okay. So, I thought I want to make sure. >> And, if AWS is almost the universe of cloud today, we can debate at some bids, but it is close enough, I'd say, it tells you where Oracle is in this cloud universe, so our friends at Redwood City may talk about cloud day in and day out, but it's very clear that they're not making much of intent in the cloud at this point. >> And then, is this the first year the rollup of the type of database that NoSQL exceeded relational database? >> No, I mean, we've been doing this for the last two years, and it's very clear that NoSQL is ahead of SQL in the cloud, and I think the way we think about it is primarily because, when you are re-architecting your applications in the cloud, the cloud gives you a timeline, it gives you an opportunity to reconsider how you build out your data layer, and many of our customers are saying NoSQL is the way to go. The scalability demands, the reliability demands, so if my application was such that I now have the opportunity to rethink and redo my data layer, and frankly, NoSQL is winning the game. >> Right, it's winning big time. Another big one: serverless, Lambda. Actually, I'm kind of surprised it took so long to get to Lambda 'cause we've been going to smaller atomic units of compute, store, and networking for so, so long, but it sounds like, looks like we're starting to hit some critical mass here. >> Yeah, I mean, look, Lambda's ready for primetime. I mean we have seen that tipping point out here. Almost one in three customers of ours are using Lambda in production environments. And then, if you cast a wider net, go beyond production and even look at dev tests, what we see is that almost 60% of Sumo Logic's customers, and if you look at 2,000 customers, that's a pretty big sample size. Almost 60% of enterprises are using Lambda in some way, shape, or form. So, I think it's not surprising that Lambda is getting used quite well in the enterprise. The question really is: what are these people doing with Lambda? What's the intent behind the use of Lambda? And that's where I think we have to do some more research. My general sense, and I think it's shared widely within Sumo Logic, is that Lambda's still at the edges of the application. It's not at the core of the application. People are not building your mission critical application on Lambda yet because I think that that paradigm of thinking about event-driven application is still a little foreign to many organizations, so I think it'll take a few more years for an entire application to be built on Lambda. >> But you would think, if it's variable demand applications, whether that's a marketing promotion around the Super Bowl or running the books at the end of the month, I guess it's easy enough to just fire up the servers versus doing a pure Lambda at this point in time, but it seems like a natural fit. >> If you're doing the utility type application and you want to start it and you want to kill it and not use it after an event has come and gone, absolutely, Lambda's the way to go. The economics of Lambda. Lambda absolutely makes sense. Having said that, I mean, if you're to build a true mission critical application that you're going to be keeping on for a while to come, I'm not seeing a lot of that in Lambda yet, but it's definitely getting there. I mean we have lots of customers who are building some serious stuff on Lambda. >> Well, a lot of great information. It's nice to have the longitudinal aspect as you do this year over year, and again, we're glad you're cheating 'cause you're getting good data. >> (chuckles) >> (laughs) You're not asking people questions. >> Yeah, I mean, I'd like to finish out by saying this is a report that Sumo Logic builds every year, not because we want to sell Sumo Logic. It's because we want to give back to our community. We want our community to build great apps. We want them to understand how their peers are building some amazing mission critical apps in the cloud and so, please download this report, learn from how your peers are doing things, and that's our only intent and goal from this report. >> Great, well, thanks for sharing the information and a great catch-up, nice event. >> All right, thank you very much, Jeff. >> All right, he's Kalyan, I'm Jeff. You're watching theCUBE. We're at Sumo Logic Illuminate 2019. Thanks for watching, we'll see you next time. (upbeat electronic music)

>> From San Francisco, It's theCUBE. Covering Sumo Logic Illuminate 2018. Now here's Jeff Frick. >> Hey welcome back everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We are at Sumo Logic Illuminate 2018: about 600 people. I think its three times as big as it was last year here at the Hyatt San Francisco Airport in Burlingame, and on of the big topics of today is the release of this new report. It's called The State of Modern Applications in DevOps Security, and to talk all about it and the results and kind of the process we are excited to have Kalyan Ramanathan, excuse me, VP of Product Marketing at Sumo Logic. Welcome. >> Thank you, Jeff. >> So you've been doing this report for a while, correct? >> Yeah, exactly, I think this is the third version of this report, and from what we know the first and only report that looks at how, you know, leading edge customers actually build, run, manage, and secure their applications in public cloud environments. >> Right, so just a little history for people that aren't familiar: Sumo launched in the cloud natively, right, and I think you guys launched on AWS. >> Absolutely. >> Way back when, I think, one of our very first AWS shows we went to in 2013, Summit San Francisco, I remember it well, we had you guys on, and so you guys have really grown along with AWS, but obviously you have expanded well beyond just simply inside of AWS. >> That's right. So, the company was founded in 2010, and we were one of the first big data services to run on AWS. I think our founders, you know, ran into one of the AWS architects who describe this new thing called a cloud, and they were completely smitten by it. They thought that this was the next new wave of how services are going to be delivered, so it just made a lot of sense to build this machine data analytics platform, that we were building, or that we were planning to build on AWS. >> Right. >> The scalability, the agility, the, ya know, the flexibility that AWS offered was exactly what our platform needed, and so this was a marriage made in heaven. But we can support applications that run just about anywhere. We obviously support applications running on AWS extremely well; that's our DNA. We get those applications, because we build and run those applications ourselves, but we also support Azure. We support GCP. We support hybrid environments. Many of our customers, ya know, are either, ya know, built in the cloud, and they know only cloud, but a few of them are also making the transition to the cloud, are migrating their applications to the cloud, and you know, we believe that we live in an age where flexibility is extremely important, and we support our customers where ever their applications are today. >> Right, so let's look at some of the findings, so. >> Absolutely. >> Just from a process point of view, you interviewed your customer data base, right? Your, your numbers here? >> Yeah, yeah, I think, yeah. We looked at our 16 hundred customers. >> Sixteen hundred customers, okay. >> And an important point to make out here is that we don't interview our customers. What we do is to, essentially, collect data from our customers, which is what we do when we are doing machine data analytics, we anonymize those data, and we represent as to what is happening in terms of these applications. How do our customers build these applications, you know, manage them, and secure them? >> Right. >> So this is not a >> It's the real data, though. >> It's real data. >> This is not, this is not what they think they know, and they're going to answer the survey. >> Absolutely. Exactly. Right. >> And all the survey biases that can come up. >> You are very right, I mean, you know, that's what makes this report unique, right? >> Right, right. >> It's the first report where we're actually reflecting what customers actually do. It's not a survey. It's not an aggregation of, you know, data from ten other sources. This is as close to truth as you can get in terms of running and building and securing applications. >> Right. >> In the cloud environment. >> So, I was happy to see that the data supports a number of the hypotheses that we derive at a lot of the shows. >> Absolutely. >> That we go through. You know, right of the top: Docker and the adoption of Kubernetes in orchestration is growing rapidly. >> Absolutely, I mean, ya know, everywhere you go you hear containers: container this, container that, so, ya know, we see a similar adoption. Docker has grown from 14 percent to about 28 percent in this, as we see in this report, but what's interesting is also the growth of Kubernetes and orchestration, right? If you were to ask anyone, even in this conference, you know, about orchestration, let's say two or three years ago, and even the word Kubernetes, ya know, I'm sure you'd have gotten blank stares. >> Right, right. >> Here we are, two years into Kubernetes becoming, you know, somewhat mainstream, and we are already starting to see 30 per cent adoption of orchestration within AWS, and out of that 30 per cent, we almost see fifteen per cent of those folks using Kubernetes as a native technology. AWS has just announced their own Kubernetes service. I am sure if, when we have this conversation next year, >> Right. >> Kubernetes, you know, will become a household name. You will see 30 per cent adoption of Kubernetes alone, >> Right. >> Ya know, in a report of this kind. >> Well it's funny: when we were at VMworld a couple weeks ago, and Kubernetes was both in Pat's, Pat Gelsinger's keynote. >> Uh-huh. >> As well as Sonjay's, you know, so it's just, it really shows how fast in this type of a world a new technology adoption can just be put into place. >> Yeah, I mean, if you bring the right capabilities, if you have the right support, which is what Kubernetes does, and, obviously, if you have the right backing, you know, in the form of Google, obviously, incubating this project and then, you know, promoting it as an open source standard, and everybody is now falling behind it. Ya know, we support it. We hear it from our customers, and, you know, the data also bears this out. >> Right, so what about on the database side? What did you find on the database side? >> Yeah, I mean, the database results are always interesting for us, right? You know, I think the most important thing that we learned is that, you know, as customers are building apps in their public cloud environments, they really have a choice, ya know? If you were to build an on-prem, you know, application, once upon a time, I mean, you are usually stuck with Oracle or, ya know, MySQL or SQL Silver or some of those standard database fares everyone has heard about. >> Right. >> But when you, now, go to the cloud, when you migrate to the cloud, or when you are, you know, incubating your applications in the cloud to begin with, you want to re-think your database layer. This is the core layer that powers your application, and there are lots more, ya know, opportunities to, and options out there. >> Right. >> So, what we are seeing is, one, the growth of no-SQL databases: they are way more scalable, ya know, they handle big data way better that, ya know, traditional SQL databases, so we're definitely seeing a growth of that, of no-SQL databases. >> Right. >> What's also interesting is that, ya know, is customers have the choice. They are looking at other forms of databases. Ya know, I could look at Redis, I could look at MongoDB, I could look at Posgres, and, right, I'm not stuck going back to, ya know, our favorite Oracle or SQL Silver anymore. >> Right. What strikes me is that the definition of the requirement has been flipped upside-down. Before it was, "What infrastructure do we have? What's available that IT can deliver to me? What do we have licenses for, and what can I build on top of?" Now the application has taken center stage, so now it's "This is what I want to do with my application. What is it that I need underneath the covers to deliver that capability?" So it really flipped the whole thing on its head. >> Ya know, this also goes back to that, you know, sort of the democratization of decisions where, you know, developers, now, can make these choices. You know, once upon a time, right, I mean, someone, a muckity-muck in your organization says Oracle is the way to go, and everybody follows suite, follows suit. That's not the case any more, right? >> Right. >> I mean, the engineer, they're a developer who is building their application, especially in the microservices world, they can make choices in terms of what is a data server that they may choose to build into that microservcie? And that doesn't have to be Oracle every time. It doesn't have to be SQL Silver every time. You know, if Redis makes sense, if MongoDB makes sense, let's go build that into our into our platform. >> Right, so, another one, you know, serverless is all the hot buzz, and clearly that is supported here with some of the data around Lambda adoption. >> Yeah, I mean, Lambda growth, you know, continues to astound us. We are seeing Lambda grow from twelve per cent two years ago, which is when we did our first report, to now, you know, almost 30 per cent, you know? So, imagine that, right: one in three enterprises today are using Lambda, and this is a technology that is very easy to use, but architecture-wise, you need to re-think how you are putting your applications together with Lambda, and we are starting to see, you know, some wide-spread Lambda adoption, you know, within enterprises. >> Right, but isn't that the ultimate goal, I mean, as we get closer and closer to, you know, atomic versions of store, compute, & networking, I mean, shouldn't it all, ultimately, get there. >> Yeah. >> I mean, there's requirements, and, you know, there's reality I don't deal, you know, luckily I don't have to go turn the stuff on and run it, but, you know, that is the vision, right? Atomic units of compute, atomic units of store, atomic units of network. >> Yeah, I mean, look, serverless is the ultimate Nirvana when it comes to the cloud, right? I mean, the notion of the cloud is that, you know, I have an application. It needs to run. I don't worry about the infrastructure, and to a certain extent, I don't even worry about the management. So, serverless and Lambda is the manifestation of that. >> Right. >> Right, and what we are starting to see is that many customers are, at least dabbling with Lambda. Now, I won't say that customers are building their core application with Lambda yet, because that requires a re-think of their application itself, but what we are starting to see is that Lambda is used in DevOps, Lambda is used in integration, Lambda is a glue-ware that sort of ties all of these applications together. >> Right. >> In fact, you know, this report that we put together, a lot of it has actually been put together on the back of Lambda. We use Lambda extensively to collect this kind of data, and create a report of this kind. >> (chuckles) That's great! Another piece I wanted to make sure that we talked about is really, kind of, the break-down of the clouds. >> Uh-huh. >> Obviously you guys have a huge percentage of your business is, you know, you ask customers, you guys were born in AWS. >> That's right. >> That seems pretty logical, but what's interesting is a lot of multi-cloud, so, you know, I don't know if you distinguish between multi-cloud, hyper-cloud, but at the end of the day, as I think Ramin talked about in the keynote, right, there's going to be different places for different workloads. >> Absolutely. You know, look, as you rightfully pointed out, we are born in AWS, so we have an affinity to AWS, and so AWS customers also have an affinity to Sumo Logic, so it's not wonder that a big swath of our customers are built in AWS. Now, having said that, what we are also seeing is actually an acceleration of our customers, you know, adopting more and more AWS. I mean, they are the leaders in the space. I mean, I think nobody can, nobody can question that statistics. What is interesting, though, is that we are starting to see increased adoption of multi-cloud. We saw about five per cent of our customers dabble in multi-cloud last year. We are at close to ten per cent this year. We are also seeing increased adoption of Azure. We had a, you know, about five per cent of our customers use Azure last year. We are starting to see almost, I should say about eight per cent of our customers used Azure last year. We saw, we're seeing about fifteen per cent of our customers use Azure this year. >> Right, right. >> Right, so Azure is a, you know, has definitely become a very credible second cloud alternative for many of our customers. >> Sure. >> Now, we do see interest in GCP. It's not translated into lots of GCP adoption in production environments yet, but we're definitely seeing that increased interest, and I'm sure, you know, when we put this report together next year, you'll see some very credible and statistically relevant GCP data in this report. >> Right, right, so, Kalyan, there's a lot here, and we could go on for (chuckles) and on and on. So, people can go to the website. They can download the report, but... It's so great, but what I like most about this report is you lay out the facts, right, you lay out your findings, people can question your data source or this or that, but you lay out your methodology, but then you have very specific instructions for the IT buyer about what they should consider, and I think that is so powerful, because I think from the position of an IT purchaser today, >> Right. >> They've got to just be getting creamed with, you know, like, with things we're talkin' about, like, with serverless and Lambda and security and DevOps and >> Right. >> And the pace of change for them keeps going faster, so where do they even begin when they're doin' this kind of analysis? It's not just putting it out for an RFP anymore, right? >> Yeah, I mean, that was the intent of this report, right? I mean, at the, you know, when we started this report our goal was to provide accurate, real-time information about, you know, where are these modern apps in the public cloud going? You know, our leading-edge customers, like Airbnb and the Twitters and the Salesforce and the Adobes, know how to do this well, but there is a huge swath of our community that is, in some sense, perplexed, right? I mean, they see this cloud adoption happening. They see this cloud wave coming. They have cut their teeth on, you know, data centers and applications in the data center. How do I make that transition to the cloud? How do I, you know, follow these cloud-first companies and learn from these companies? And, so, what we wanted to do was to collect this data, anonymously surface this data, and provide, you know, this insight to this community so that they can, you know, in some sense emulate, you know, these leading-edge companies and learn how to architect, build, run and secure their apps. >> Right, right, and I love this little, you know, kind of, the new stack, if you will, the architecture set-up. >> Right. >> Cake chart that you've done in the past. All right, great! So, a lot of, ton of information. I'll give you the last word as we're here at Illuminate, triple last year's numbers. A little bit about where you guys are goin' next. What's, kind of, top of your mind? >> You know, look, you know, Sumo Logic, as a company, you know, we are doing exceptionally well in this machine data analytics space. We are the only cloud-native machine data analytics vendor. We are where the market is going, right? We understand cloud; the apps are going to the cloud. We know how to manage these apps exceptionally well, but more importantly, you know, we think that it's also important and it behooves us to make sure that we take our developer community, our ops community, our security community along with us, and that's the intent of this report. >> Right. >> It's to not sell product, though we do want to sell it eventually. >> Yeah. >> But it's to provide you guys, actually I should say, provide the community with the right kinds of information so that, you know, they can do their jobs better. >> Right, right. >> That's the goal of Sumo Logic. It's all about, you know, empowering the people who power these modern apps, which is actually the theme of this event itself. >> Well, very good. Well, we'll leave it there, and thanks for taking a few minutes of your time. >> Thank you very much, Jeff. >> All right, he's Kalyan. I'm Jeff. You're watchin' theCUBE. We're at Sumo Logic Illuminate at San Francisco Hyatt Regency by the airport. See ya next time. (hip music)

>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas, it's the CUBE. Covering AWS re:Invent 2017, presented by AWS, Intel, and our ecosystem of partners. (the CUBE theme music) >> Hey, welcome back everyone. Here live in Las Vegas, the CUBE's coverage of Amazon re:Invent. It's 45,000 people, lot of action. Again, three days of wall-to-wall coverage. This is day two, trying not to lose my voice. I'm here with Justin Warren, my cohost this week, along with Stu Miniman, Keith Townsend, and a variety of other great, great hosts for the CUBE. Doing our share to get that data to you. Our next guest is Kalyan Ramanathan, who's the vice president in product market at SumoLogic, but also the author with a group of people from SumoLogic on a great report that they have out called Modern Applications in the Cloud, and he came and he took some time to come from his meetings to come on the CUBE to talk about it. Because we've been riffing on what is a modern application? What is a modern cloud? You know that Justin and I were talking about this renaissance in software development. Obviously, the cloud wars are happening. The water's being pulled out, that tsunami's coming. It's changing the face of startups, IT, and developers at the heart of the action, a new cultural renaissance. Welcome to the CUBE. >> Thank you very much. >> So, a little editorializing there, an opining. But we believe that we are seeing a C change, a renaissance in software. Because the things that are now possible, the creativity, the power of developers, the end-to-end visibility into services is just like putting a PowerPoint slide together, or LEGO blocks. It's just like, it's so easy, not. But I mean, it could be easy, it's easier. >> Kalyan: Absolutely. >> So modern applications are top of our mind, so everyone wants to be modern. They wanna be hip, they wanna be cool. But there's some serious work getting done right now in the cloud. And there's a shift of greatness coming. What does your report show? Because we wanna dig into it. What the hell is a modern application? Is Oracle a modern application? Do I buy Watson at IBM? I see that on TV a lot. What is a modern application? >> Yeah let me, thank you John. So let me start with a quick introduction about SumoLogic, so that I can set a context about this modern application report. So SumoLogic is a cloud-native machine data analytics service, and what we do is to help our customers manage the operations and security of their mission-critical applications, right? The end goal to our customers is that now they can deliver an application with very good security posture and with exceptionally good customer experience. Now, we've been in AWS for about seven years. We have about 1,600 customers under management today. So what we've been able to do in this modern application report is to fundamentally mine data from our customers in a very anonymous way and give insight into what typically makes up a modern application in the cloud, right? And when we talk about a modern application, and I typically see three characteristics to these modern applications. First and foremost, many of these applications are indeed architected or perhaps I should say even re-architected in public cloud environments like AWS or Azure or Google Cloud Platform. Secondly, many of these applications are built using DevOps and Agile-style practices, so the rate and speed of change in this application is completely off the charts. The third thing that we are starting to see a lot more of is that many of these applications are built using Microservices-style technology, so it's very easy to compose these applications. You can put them together very easily, you can make changes to these applications a lot. So that's our typical definition of a modern application. >> Okay, well, we heard Andrew Jassy, I think, one or two days ago, was talking about if I started AWS again from scratch, today I would be using serverless. So I wouldn't be deploying virtual machines, I wouldn't actually be using a lot of the AWS services that we have today. So what are you seeing in the momentum for how developers are using the different types of stack. We're seeing a lot of growth in NoSQL, we're seeing a lot of growth in serverless functions. If I were starting a modern application today, what would my stack look like? >> Yeah, I mean, that's at the heart of the report that we put together, right? The report actually provides an end-to-end application stack, starting all the way from the infrastructure layer to the applications and even perhaps the management and the security technologies that you may need to manage these modern applications well. So let's start off with the infrastructure layer, right? So what SumoLogic has identified in, anonymously again, mining our customer data is that, you know, on the infrastructure side, Linux rules. As a operating system, goes without saying, Linux is the dominant operating system in AWS and that is to be understood. But here's the other interesting data point. Linux is also getting significant foothold in the Azure world. And that is not commonplace knowledge today, right? I mean, you would expect that Windows is ruling the Azure world, but we are actually starting to see dramatic year over year growth in terms of Linux within the Azure world. Now, let's move up the stack, right? Let's go from the host and the operating system now to the container world. What we are starting to see is dramatic growth in container adoption within AWS. Last year, when we put out the first version of this report, we saw that 18% of our customers are using Docker within AWS. This year, we are seeing that one in four customers are actually using Docker within their environment. >> Node.js, we saw a New Relic kind of report too. They laid out a little bit different instrumentation of it, with what languages. Python and Node.js, certainly Node.js, really awesome for the cloud and you're seeing that continue to be great. How does that gonna fit into Azure, for instance? What are they doing in their clients? So we were talking about Azure, right? So you look at their numbers, right? Azure versus AWS OS adoption. Okay, Linux is moving up because they made that announcement. But people have been looking at Azure and confused by the Azure stack. It's almost like a black box. Here, Amazon lays it out very cleanly. How is the Azure stack piece impacted? >> Yeah I mean, Microsoft, they've historically been a much more of a closed ecosystem. But I think in the Azure world, we are definitely starting to see Microsoft open the kimono, in some sense, and start to adopt, not just opensource technologies, but also technologies that are not very core to the Microsoft stack itself. A lot of our customers who are using us in Azure today, are, as I mentioned, they're using Linux in a fairly significant way. We are also starting to see Azure functions being used in a significant way. In terms of the entire application stack, again, Azure has, while they are behind AWS in terms of the number of services, the richness of the services, we are starting to see them catch up in a very significant way. >> All right, here's a Here's a pointed question for you, it's a tough question, okay? Maybe tough to answer, maybe you know the answer. A lot of people will try to fake it until they make it. And you've heard that term around. You really can't fake being a modern application, so what do you see as ones that aren't making it, in terms of architecture and stacks? Maybe it's Legacy trying to bolt on a little bit of glam front end, Javascript, or Node. Where's the failure, or having one relational database, maybe Oracle and trying to blend that in? Is there a formula that you see that's not working? >> You know, I think the act of just putting on a shim around a Legacy technology and calling that modern, I think what we are starting to see more and more of, is that that can take you so far, but only so far, right? The underlying infrastructure technologies of today, especially containers and you guys heard Andy Jassy talk about Kubernetes today at his keynote. There are such technology advances that are so core to the architecture of the modern app that if you choose not to implement them and if you just put, in some sense, a lipstick on a pig and a tiny little shim on top of a Legacy application, >> Sprinkle a little bit of glitter on things, yeah. >> You're, can you get away with it for a year or so? Absolutely, but then you're talking about, you know, dealing with extreme scalability, high elasticity, security of the kind that is needed for most enterprises. That's where the Legacy technology and just a sprinkling of dust, as you described it, is going to fall apart. >> I love the top two data, two of the three top datas are NoSQL. Interesting you got MySQL, Redis, Mongo and PostgreSQL, and then Cassandra and then Redshift. Redis, really kicking ass at number two. >> Kalyan: Absolutely. That's surprising. I always loved Redis but that's moving up. That's ahead of Mongo. >> Yeah, absolutely. I mean, Redis has a huge following. It's a in-memory database, as you know. It also has a lot of shades of NoSQL. >> John: It's flexible. >> It's very flexible, absolutely. So I mean, the interesting data point in the database analysis that we did was that in the cloud world, NoSQL and SQL are pretty much head-to-head, right? So, I mean the way we think about it is, when you are re-architecting your applications to the cloud, it really gives you the opportunity to step back and say, what do I do with my data store? Does it have to be the Oracle of the past? Can I re-architect it for something that's more optimized for what I'm trying to do now? And that's where, I think NoSQL has really caught on. >> We, you know Justin, we were talking yesterday, and then Andy's keynote. I had one-on-one with him a week ago. It's good, some of my content made it into his keynote, because one of the things I've been banging on we talked about yesterday was, these modern databases, modern apps, could have multiple databases. And you, look at Redis, there's different use cases. DynamoDB is slow on lookups, I might wanna have a queue there. I might wanna tie it with Redis and a little bit of architectural shape. It's a whole new normal, it's not a one trick pony. >> Yeah, and Redis is really popular in the Kubernetes community, I know. So as we see Kubernetes growing, then I expect that the Redis growth will also follow that. >> The question is, this is what I've put, and he put inside his keynote was, the new modern app can have multiple databases. This is gonna have a huge impact. How does that impact this report? What do you see, because now it kinda changes the game? It's not one, I can't just throw MySQL at it, or Mongo. Used to be the old days, LAMP stack and say, okay, Mongo's awesome, I'm gonna build my app, but now I gotta integrate it with another app. >> Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean, we're seeing heterogeneity across the board, right? And that is part of the goal of a report like this, too. Right, I mean, we put this report out mostly focused on cloud architects, DevOps engineers, SRE engineers who are rethinking what it takes to run an application in the cloud, may it be AWS, Azure, et cetera. And we wanted to provide them a roadmap of what are their peers doing in this world. >> Well, we really appreciate you and SumoLogic doing a report. New Relic has one. We love these kind of reports and when they're this good, we like to talk about them. I know you're being really nice and you don't wanna lose customers by pissing off other cloud guys, because you're in Switzerland, you play with all of them. But there's really some interesting data here that points to who's leading and who's not, and then the stacks do matter. The developers are influencing IT decisions now. So knowing the stack, knowing your stack, what works for developers, super important. We're gonna keep track of it. We'll certainly invite you into our powwow out at the studios to do some check-ins on the report. Maybe do a deeper dive, appreciate it. >> Yeah, and all I'll say is this report is available on our website. It's, you know, you don't have to register, you get it. >> John: Free. Yeah, it's free. >> They don't even ask for an email address, which is great. (laughter) So thanks so much for SumoLogic. Thanks for coming on the CUBE and breaking down the report. More live coverage here from Las Vegas, from Amazon re:Invent, I'm John Furrier with Justin Warren. We'll be right back with more after this short break. (the CUBE theme music)

>> Announcer: Live, from San Francisco, it's theCUBE, covering AWS Summit 2017, brought to you by Amazon Web Services. (bouncy techno music) >> Hi, welcome back to theCUBE, live in San Francisco at the AWS Summit here. I'm Lisa Martin, joined by my co-host Jeff Frick. Our next guest is from Sumo Logic. We have the VP of Product Marketing, Kalyan Ramanathan. Welcome to theCUBE! >> Thank you very much. Very excited to be here. >> Very excited to have you here. So, tell us a little bit about what Sumo Logic is doing with AWS and machine data. What services are you delivering, who's your target audience, all that good stuff. >> Yeah, absolutely. We are a cloud native, i.e., SaaS-based, machine data analytics platform, and what we do is to help our customers manage the operations and security of their machine-critical applications. Right, so we are an entirely AWS-based customer, we've been using AWS since our inception. What we do is to provide machine data and machine learning so that our customers can manage the performance of their applications, right. So, what is machine data, you might ask. So machine data typically includes logs, metrics, events, anything that your application is generating when it is running, when it is serving the enterprise's customers. And what Sumo Logic excels at is to ingest this data. We collect and ingest this data, and then we apply a lot of analytics on that data. We have some patented machine learning technologies that helps us correlate this data, get insights from this data, and then using this data, our customers manage the applications that they are providing to their end customers. >> And it's not just their applications that are co-located at AWS with your application, it's beyond that, I assume. >> Absolutely, I mean, we have customers from, you know, very different walks of life, we have customers who are on-prem, customers who are down the hybrid path and moving to AWS, and customers who are on an AWS. You know, I can rattle off a queue of great names, Pinterest, Twitter, Airbnb, are examples of customers who are born in the cloud. They run on AWS from the very get-go. And they use us today to manage the security and performance of their applications. We have other customers who have migrated to AWS, Scripps Network, the guys behind HGTV, it's a great example of a customer who was running applications in their on-prem data center, and then one day decided that they are a content company, and they don't want to be running their own data center. >> Right. >> And so they wanted to move their applications to the cloud, and they used Sumo Logic to help migrate their applications to AWS. >> What are some of the barriers that you help customers overcome when it comes to maybe that daunting task of migrating services? >> Yeah, that's a great question. You know, the first thing that someone has to do before they start to migrate their applications to the cloud is to understand what is it that they have within the data centers, right. If I don't know what I have, how do I even migrate that to the cloud? The first task is obviously provide visibility into what is within their data center. And that's where Sumo Logic comes in, right. If you deploy Sumo Logic, and if you implement Sumo Logic as a SaaS service, the first thing that we do is to provide you complete visibility into your applications. All the application components, the infrastructures that the application is deployed on, the services that the application may be using. The next thing that you want to do is start to migrate your workload to the cloud. But you want to do this in a very thoughtful way, and what that means is that you start to move your applications and your infrastructure to AWS, but then you do this cut of work to AWS, only when you are convinced about the performance as well as the security of that application in this new environment. So the ability to baseline what you have in your current environment, and then compare it to what it might look like in this new environment within AWS is extremely critical, and what Sumo Logic helped Scripps Network do is to essentially compare and contrast how they are performing in this new environment. And when they were extremely comfortable that their security and their performance was no less in this new environment compared to what they were doing in the data center, they were able to flip that switch and complete the move over to AWS. >> You guys are in an interesting position, because you were born in AWS, essentially, cloud-native, and you have a lot of customers that are running in AWS. And so you guys did a survey, a report, really kind of taking a look at what's actually happening with cloud-native companies running their apps in AWS. I wonder if you can kind of give-- What did you guys find in this thing? >> Yeah, absolutely Jeff. And this is, the report that we put out towards the end of last year, I think is one of the first start leadership reports that gives, you know, people in AWS, a birds-eye view into how are their peers, you know, deploying, architecting, and managing their applications within the AWS environment. So, how did we put this report together? Sumo Logic has over 1200 customers under management today and more than 80% of our customers are, you know, using AWS today. They are implementing their applications within AWS. So what we did was to anonymously mine data from our customers, and publish a report that provides the set of best practices, and the commonly-used techniques and architectures that, you know, the leaders are doing and implementing today as they move to AWS. Now there were some great learnings that we found out as we put this report together, alright. First and foremost, we discovered that the stack, that a customer typically deploys in AWS, is very unlike the stack that they deploy within their on-premise data center. So, how does that work out? I mean, so, many of the AWS customers that we mined here, happen to use Docker extensively within their AWS environment. In fact, 18% of our customers, this was last year, already are using Docker, you know, for the production application. Which is pretty amazing, given that Docker is just, you know, two or three years-- >> Well hopefully Solomon and Ben are watching, we actually have another crew with Docker-- >> Absolutely. >> Right now. >> We'll have to report that back. >> You know, Docker is all the rage, no doubt about, and we are seeing, you know, increased adoption of Docker across the board, among all of, for AWS customer. The other thing that we found very interesting was that the applications that you may typically expect to succeed in your data center, are not quite doing that well in the AWS world. I'll give you a good example, in the database world, you would expect to see Oracle and SQL Server, you know, ruling the root within a typical data center today. You go on AWS, that's not the case at all. The NoSQL databases, right, are the leading vendors of databases within the AWS world. MongoDB, Redis, you know, are well ahead of Oracle and SQL Server when it comes to AWS. When it comes to web server technologies. You know, Nginx and Apache, you know, are well ahead of IAS, which happens to be the web server of choice within the data center world. Now we've also seen, you know, pretty amazing adoption of Lambda Technologies within AWS. I mean, that's to be expected, a certain bit, because I know AWS is definitely pushing it, but again, 12% use it within a production environment. You know, one year into Lambda, GA in some sense, is pretty astonishing numbers, so-- >> What was your takeaway? Was it because of the applications that are deployed, is it because, kind of, historical legacy of what Amazon offered, kind of for an on-prem versus an on-prem, you know, those early business decisions, not so much today, but, you know, years ago, when there was the security and public cloud, you know, it was a very different conversation three years ago. What were some of your takeaways as to the why? >> The takeaways that I think, there's a meta takeaway here, and let me start with that. The meta takeaway is that as people are building applications in AWS, native AWS applications, or as they are migrating their applications from an on-prem data center to, let's say, AWS, this is giving IT architects the opportunity rethink how their applications are constructed. You know, they are no longer bound by the old shackles of, if I have to use a database, it's Oracle or SQL Server. If I have to use a IIS web server, it's IIS or some other option. >> Right. >> So, once you are unchained from these shackles, you have the ability now to rethink and re-architect your application from scratch to target and to focus on this amazing new world that the cloud, you know, offers. So that's the, that's a big meta takeaway for us, and, what we have learned is that once you are unbound, you can come up with new technologies and new ways of doing things that are adopted and better suitable for this new space. That's one. The second thing that we do see, obviously, is that the vendors of yesterday are not yet focused on the cloud technologies. It may be heresy to say this, but, you know, Oracle has not found a cult religion until very recently. And that's why you see Oracle as not doing a lot, or not making a dent in, you know, in cloud places or in cloud technologies like AWS. >> Right, right, it's just interesting, that procurement angle, because, as anyone who's ever been at a relatively small company, trying to sell into a big company, one of the biggest hurdles is actually just getting on the procurement list, becoming an approved vendor. So, it's interesting to think about that from the other side as a consumer. That if now you are unshackled from the approved vendor list, and you, because if now the only approved vendor is Amazon, and now you have this whole breadth of things to choose from within that ecosystem, that, how that could really impact your behavior and what you actually buy, build, and deliver. >> Yeah, I mean, I think that's a great point too. I mean, there are economics involved here, there is the friction of adopting certain technologies to AWS, which also makes it a little harder to adopt some of the more traditional software applications in the AWS world. Now that's why AWS obviously has come up with the notion of a marketplace, and Sumo Logic, you know, we face the same challenges when we are signing up customers, right. We have some big-name customers who, you know, if we have to sell into those customers, you know, we have to get into their procurement list, we have to, you know, go through a few rigamaroles-- >> Jeff: Right, Right >> To even get into that list. That's where, you know, getting into the AWS marketplace has really helped us a lot. Now you have one vendor, you have one relationship, you have one payment terms, and that vendor is already on your approved list. And so, hey, Sumo Logic comes along with the rights. >> So, definitely a simplification there, which was one of the themes in the keynote this morning, as well as this unshackling. What are your objectives for the report, are you going to be either going back to some of your existing customers or to new customers to show them all of these best practices that you've developed? >> Yeah, I mean, I think our goal of this report, obviously, first thing from us is to make this an annual report, we plan to do this every year, write it on reinvent. And what we want to do is to provide our community, who are mostly AWS shops today. We do have a few Microsoft Azure customers, and we are starting to see some Google Cloud platform customers too. But what we want to do is become the hot leader, who not only serves his customers, but also provides them a road map, in terms of, you know, how should they be adopting these cloud technologies. >> Jeff: Right. >> What are their leading-edge peers like the Twitters and the Airbnbs and the Pinterests of the world starting to do. Obviously, in a anonymized way, we don't want to be calling out any of our customers by name, but here is how you need to think about architecting your applications in the cloud. There is an opportunity, as we said, to, you know, break open from the chains of the past, redo this. We want to help our customer redo this well. >> I'd love to get your perspective, what are the, you know, and I think we're past the security and some of those kind of historic impediments, to you will, to public cloud adoption, but one of the ones that still comes up all the time is the rent versus buy, and you know I think it goes back to the tested roots of, yes, it's great to rent for awhile, but at some point in time, when you hit some scale-- >> Kalyan: Right. >> The business model flips and now it's more economical to buy and operate your own. But what we see in the slide that Werner showed today, there's plenty of customers, Netflix, of course always being the flagship, that are giant, and must have a giant AWS bill every month, who have chosen to still leverage them as their IT platform, and not flip the switch to a purchase. So you know, kind of either from the survey or anecdotally with your own customers, and you as a company, you know, what impacts that decision and do you have, like this review every couple of years, when those CFOs go, "Ah, we're paying these guys a lot of money," should we build our own stuff, but clearly you haven't gone that route. >> I mean, there are definitely enterprises who are still on-prem today, I think the last stat that I heard from Gartner is that 20% of enterprises have flipped over to public cloud infrastructure. 80% is still running things in the cloud, you know, within the data center, maybe a private cloud or maybe in the traditional old ways of running applications. But that tide is definitely turning. And what we see from many of our customers is that there are many reasons for customers or enterprises to now start adopting public cloud. Economics is obviously one, I mean, there is a big advantage of going from Capex to Opex, it obviously makes a lot of sense to do that. The second thing is that what we see is that it's not just about moving the application to the cloud, it's also having the right tooling around the application that can now allow you to manage that application, manage the performance of that application, the security of that application, the deployment of that application in the public cloud environment. And that has taken a while to mature, and I think we are already there, I mean, in an event like this, you can see so many companies come up with new, innovative ways of managing applications within the public cloud environment. And I think we are there now, I mean, the pendulum has swung, and we have enough technologies now to do this with a very high level of confidence. The third thing I would say, and you know, we keep hearing this from our customers again and again, and you know, I brought up Scripps as a great example, you know, we just did a public webinar with a company called Hootsuite, and, you know, they are a social media management platform company, and one of the comments from the Hootsuite VP of Operations was very telling, he said, "Look, I can do this, I can run my own stuff, but do I really want to do it, right? I am a social media company, I want to provide the best application to my customers. I'm not in the business of running a management technology, you know, on-prem or even, for that matter, you know, within the four walls of the company itself. What I want to do is focus on where I can deliver the best value to my customer, and that is by delivering a great social media application." >> Lisa: Exactly. >> "And I want to let the infrastructure game, the management game to the experts," right. >> Focusing on their core competencies to really drive more business. >> I mean I think we are definitely starting to see that, there are certain verticals that have adopted this, you know, wholeheartedly, retail is a good one, media is a good one, there are also cost pressures in those verticals that are forcing them to adopt this at a much faster pace. Financial is kicking and screaming, but they are also getting on board. >> But definitely from a thematic perspective, you talk about maturation, maturation of the services, maturation of the technologies, and maturation of the user. So we want to thank you so much for stopping by theCUBE, great to have you here. >> Thank you very much, I mean, it's been a great conversation with you guys, and it's a great event. >> Excellent, well for my co-host Jeff Frick, I am Lisa Martin, you're watching this on theCUBE live in San Francisco as the AWS Summit. Stick around, we'll be right back. (bouncy techno music)