bye okay welcome back everyone this is SiliconANGLE and Mookie bonds to cube our flagship program we got the advances reconsider from the noise I'm John foreach n with Dave vellante here for just a conversation Dave about what's going on oracle openworld day one of three days of live coverage here in San Francisco what's your take dick well first of all John miss you yes I had furrier withdrawals here so welcome back them first segment we've done together all day I was out at Santa Barbara last night in checking out the scene down there made it back not going to miss an Oracle OpenWorld for the world I love a work eloping world because it's like Isla Vista in Santa Barbara except it's tech people going crazy over the technology so mas coyote is draped in Red John well different in a few weeks ago at vmworld but I mean it's always great because you know Oracle has the muscle Dave as you know we always talk about every year Oracle's so you know transitioning from that telco role of extracting value from the ecosystem Oracle's making moves Larry Ellison really is a gamer he wants to make his mark on the industry he sees himself as the heir apparent to steve jobs in the end the end the historic hall fame of tech industry and he's here to win it's a game to him and I think you see oracle just in the past four years since we've been covering them being kind of a this is a throwaway game for them to like really being in the game they're making the announcements they're heavy and cloud they're making a faster more relevant timely announcements again they're a monster they're in there a huge accounts huge dollars and a rounding number on their sales spreadsheet would take a company public these days so you know those startups are doing well Oracle still has the muscle and they have huge clients and I'm going to watch and I think you know you ask me might take perform over here a consistent story from Oracle it's engineered software engineered heart with hardware it's vertical integration it's trying to develop best to breed its spending on R&D now they've basically co-op to the Big Data theme you know we hear a lot about their cloud so you know it's fun to criticize Oracle right they charge a lot a you know coops industry terms and act like they invented it on and on but here's the deal they spent a lot of money on R&D Allison's like a start-up CEO I mean he's that engage them I resisted this session talking to some executives and in the infrastructure business and they're telling me I Larry's call me every week wants to know the update on the new product and output when it's coming when it's ready you know herds the same way so you guys are intense focus on as you said winning that is all about winning it's a zero-sum game to Oracle it's the chest it's a chess board for Larry and I think you know one of the things we're seeing some news here we had our guys at the press conference mark hurd made an announcement about the human capital management software you know they're you know it's classic Oracle swiping at the competition work day has been booming of late and you know they're under pressure you know and you know workday asli the PeopleSoft guides have a huge chip on their shoulder they're winning they're doing well and Oracle's not happy about it so I mean obviously they're going to be moving very very aggressive against that and then just in all fronts the chessboard of conversion infrastructure the Sun acquisition really the ultimate cherry on top for Oracle relative to their future positioning they are betting the ranch on an apple-like strategy where containing the hardware focusing on the software and bundling in the hardware to the software as a fully enclosed system purpose-built hardening it out is ultimately their big bet David I'm telling you it will work for some companies and that lock in is a small price to pay for the functionality if they can deliver well and I think they I think Oracle can deliver you know the question is is as we're talking about with ray Wang can they deliver both on the promise of integrated systems I have no doubt Oracle can do that because they're spending a lot of money on it they got good technology people they've got good technology and and so eventually they're going to make that integration play work and they already are making Network the big question I have John is can they innovate and be best to breed at each layer of the stack that's something that's really hard to do guys like EMC and Cisco and VMware have chosen to partner to do that that's always been IBM's big challenge right i mean what's IBM number one at what product is IBM number one besides mainframes it's hard to come up with one okay then same question of Oracle what product is Oracle number one at besides database that's Oracle's challenge you know can they be best in storage can they be best in servers can they be best in applications they would argue their best in applications and I think big date is a big challenge here we heard inside the cube here day one that people don't want to pay licenses for data that's not being used and there's a big issue around the how data works how people using their computing environment it's not a monolithic environment anymore relative to the database there's new unstructured environments most of the data is not stored in relational databases why should I pay an Oracle lights of them I got virtualization I got scale-out open source these are new environments that are putting great pressure on Oracle and if you look at Mark Hurd and how he reports to the street all he talks about is our revenues licenses are up x percent barrel tins of the market well if demarcus declining and you're up what does that mean maybe this shifting to another area so Dave this is a concern that I have about Oracle is their core business metrics might not be on the right numbers yes software's growing relative to what I'm a declining market or shifting market those are the open questions we will find out this backdoor I think that well here's here's something I want to share with you so we did some wheat research and Wikibon fifty percent of the customers that we talked to in the Wikibon community said they're willing to risk lock-in to get integration and function so then and only fifteen percent said we're dogmatic about open source now over time that open source crowd as you well know is going to build up the capabilities but fifteen percent is the toehold for the start of startup crowd Oracle's working on that fat middle and that's really where they do let's talk about the dogmen the dogma for IT enterprises simply there's contract negotiations all posturing for contract negotiations almost every single CIO I talk to and we've talked to Dave have either told us publicly and privately hey at the end of the day I care about the cost structure the environment and to if there's a hardened top unlock in it doesn't it's irrelevant then and the example that we've always using the cube is you the Intel microprocessor do you really care about the proprietary software involved in an Intel processor no just gets the job done and it enables other things that's the key question that we're looking at right now in the computer industry is where is that hardened environment where being collapse elation of the complexity has been taken away to the point where it's absolutely functional that is ultimately to be the key and I think that's going to have to enable data fabric layer and then top of stack of applications I think that's a VMware strategy is a good one I think of Oracle can pull that off they could be the Intel of this cloud error well the other big battle is the organizational battle because Oracle obviously sells the dbas and application heads and everybody else in the hardware business sells to infrastructure people and let's face it the dba's and the application heads have all the juice in the marketplace so that's those guys are driving the buying decisions now as companies like VMware become more strategic they can maybe get some access to those individuals but still Oracle an essay p own that it all you do skoda you go to sa p sapphire you come to oracle openworld a lot of suits you go to emc world and you're seeing you know a lot of infrastructure people so that's a big battle that people taking on but i would if i'm a customer i would absolutely have some alternative infrastructure around wouldn't go just all red stack there might be some situations where i want to do that i guess the point I'm making is a lot of the application heads don't care if they spend more on infrastructure they don't care if they get locked in because they care about how fast the application runs how easy it is deploy how agile it is what their service experience is like that's what they care about I think ultimately it's going to come down at ability to be flexible have the application support so Oracle obviously will have the ability in most their companies to do that the question is do they have the right product mix and I think giving the customer's choice that's what we've seen with OpenStack in particular and you look at OpenStack what that's done is given this choice to the enterprise's to do whatever they want relative to having a private and public and hybrid cloud environment and that's ultimately going to help with the kind of the choice option so I mean that's kind of we've heard Oracle's portfolio or has got one of everything we heard you were in the cards so you didn't hear Thomas curing this morning but I mean you would have thought they were invent big data I mean it was a dupe connectors in-memory databases you're talking oh you know no sequel key value stores we got at all and they do actually have a lot of that hey so the portfolio is very robust they can tick the boxes they can they can play that functionality game with anybody and the real advantages they talk to the CIO now over here you've got the walk-off the marc andreessen crowd right none of my startups by Oracle hey stuff so it's those guys it's the open source crowd that ultimately is going to get leverage in the marketplace and you know John you and I have talked about this in the cube a lot ultimately long term open source wins Gary Blum was on the cube earlier CEO of now CEO president MarkLogic Dave he's been a I think 17 years of Oracle insane amount of years he's been there from the beginning he goes back to veritas as well you know he had an interesting point he said that in MarkLogic they have a half a DBA for ten dba's that are on staff for oracle that's a nine and a half labor pool reduction in cost and you're granted some of those guys might retire kind of like mainframe guys in the old days but like still you don't know about a massive amount of restricting of resources I want to get your take on the data economy type role I mean the data economy we're talking about new economics what's your take on I mean that ratio is really the kind of magnitude we're seeing relative the big data so here's my take on that is is I think that rightly so the startups are doing what Larry always does he compares his state of the art to somebody else's n minus 2 and that's what the startups are doing right there's a lot of legacy Oracle environments very easy to go in and say okay I can reduce your operating expense here's the challenge Oracle knows this and they see that threat so what Oracle's trying to do is is is cut that you know to whatever degree it can cut that and and close that gap and then you know have the cios bet on oracle because their quote unquote less risky right nobody ever get fired for bringing on IBM so the game that they have to play I heard Gary say we have a five-year lead on the competition so it's like fusion-io and EMC right EMC it lead on on emc we had packed LC on the QB said hey we're behind we're going to catch up how did they catch up they went out and they bought a company now I haven't caught up yet but they went out bought a company they started investing R&D but they're closing that gap and so that's the game that they play okay we're here inside the cube this is SiliconANGLE Yvonne's coverage of the cube stay with us we're going to be going to come back with Jeff Kelly Dave next we have any more guests coming in we're done this is a wrap for the day okay we'll be back tomorrow on Tuesday stay here SiliconANGLE guns the cue our flagship program day one wrap up here at Oracle OpenWorld yes my goal she's coming on we got a bunch of guys coming on from emc emc has 80,000 oracle customers oracle itself says it has 40,000 hardware customers so that's going to be an interesting we want having a special thanks out the qlogic for letting us stay in their booth again fourth consecutive year the legacy SiliconANGLE and CNBC are broadcasting live here at oracle openworld this is day one coverage with new Act tomorrow with the keynote in the middle of the afternoon all day coverage starting at nine at ten o'clock tomorrow morning here from the cube stay with us and see you tomorrow