(upbeat music) >> Okay, welcome back everyone to theCUBE's coverage of AWS re:Invent 2021. We're here live in Las Vegas for an in-person event. Of course, it's a hybrid event, virtual online. Many people online. A lot of people here on the event, a lot of action. cloud going next generation, mainframe transformation, more analytics, more chips, everything's faster and cheaper and getting better and better in the cloud. We've got the great coverage. We've got two great guests. We got Justin Hooper vice president of Global Operations Infrastructure Ingram Micro and JP Perot, EVP of Telecom Media and Technology and AWS executive sponsor for Atos. Gentlemen, thank you for joining me on theCUBE. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, glad to be here. >> So what is it about the conference so far? Pretty good, like a lot of people here? >> Super exciting. >> 27,000 people showing up. >> It's amazing. >> Real people not workers. >> Yeah, it feels almost normal. >> Yeah I can't believe the turnout. >> Got a great topic, you guys working together you got mainframe, you got analytics, transformation. Let's get into it. Let's start by introducing what you guys do, your company, and why you are here. JP, we'll start with you. >> Yeah, I can start. Okay, so yeah, so I'm leading, you know, in Atos all the cloud business and telecom media technology, Atos is a big company is a service and technology company, 11 billion Euro business, and we are leading all the transformation to cloud and also, all what is related to hybrid cloud transformation. Also with security. We are number two in the world in terms of security and cybersecurity. We have developed for so long lasting relationship with AWS. We have been an advanced technology partner of AWS for now many years, since 2013. And we have developed a specific program, you know, regarding manufacturing transformation and mega trends. So this is why we are super excited to be here with you Justin today, thank you, by the way having Ingram Micro with us, Justin. >> I appreciate it, it's good talking to you. Good to be here. >> And I'm Justin Hooper, I work for a Ingram Micro. I run their Global Infrastructure and IT operations. Ingram Micro is one of the world's largest technology suppliers, technology solutions, and cloud platform and services. >> Well, great for the intro. Thanks for that set up, a lot of action going on. You guys have recently purchased, you guys got the transformation in the cloud. What is the movement to the cloud? Take us through the current situation. >> Yeah, we see, a big acceleration and especially due to COVID situation. We have seen acceleration of transformation to cloud. There is a lot to do, a lot to do because many business critical application, which have not been transformed. And also, especially all the applications which are sitting on top of mainframe that is why executive discussion we are with Ingram at the moment is how we can help Ingram with some of the applications that are on mainframe to transform and design the future. >> Justin, take us through the transformation that they're helping you with, what's the key challenge? What problem are they solving? Take us through the specifics. >> Yeah, it's interesting because I'm actually a lover of the mainframe, I think most of the people at AWS would think, the mainframes, didn`t they put the rockets on the moon. That's old technology, but mainframes are still fantastic platforms. We, have great success, great resiliency with Atos . We are on the most modern chips, but there are a lot of restrictions. You know, you really have to size your mainframe for your peak workloads. You don't have the ability to separate segments, scale horizontally, and then there are really nuanced. Like it's hard to get resources that know mainframes, to be honest with you, it is just, there's a people issue there industry-wide, and we're not different than any other company and compete for resources, both on the system side and on the programming side. And we really want to look at how we can make a massive leave, if we're going to leave the mainframe, how do we start a journey where we can end up really being able to take advantage of horizontal scalability, the ability to have a utility compute model where we're really paying as we go, because that is the opposite how the mainframe model works today. >> Talk about the refactor 'cause I know I've covered a lot of mainframe stuff with IBM in the past and how banks are still using it. Everyone is they're real applications. They're mission critical. How are they integrating into the digital transformation. Containers, kubernetes are hot right now. You're starting to see a lot more integration. How do your customers and how do you guys see refactoring happening? I can see the integration, but that as the refactoring come in. >> There's really what we've learned with our partnership is there are really a couple of ways to do the refactoring. You can convert your old Cobalt code to something else like Java. And there are tools and companies out there that do that. Or you can really build a plan where you can effectively emulate your mainframe on commodity computing and through a relatively deep analysis with Atos, the recommendation that we're looking at is that ability to first get off of the hardware, get off of that reliance on the platform, but not jump all the way to modify your code to Java. There's not a lot of value in going from Cobalt to Java, for example, if you're not making improvements in your programs, adding business capabilities. So the journey starts with get off the hardware, but then it allows you to go and say, we are going to break up those complex programs. We are going to separate the data differently. And once you do that, you can start to take advantage of containers and start to separate yourself even more and really get into the cloud. But, there are ways to piece your way through that. >> You know that's really good insight, JP, I'd love to get your reaction on this too, because what Justin's getting at is what we hear a lot from experienced CIOs of large companies that have a lot of existing stuff. And the theme is and the word they use is you don't want to touch the white hot core. Meaning it's so mission critical that if you mangle it too hard, touch it too hard a lot of bad things happen. So this idea of push things out to the cloud that around the edges, and then work your way slowly in is a risk management and practical approach. >> Not exactly, you said it right, its exactly a risk management So, and Justin explain it different factors, which come to the end point in terms of decision there is one issue regarding competencies, because their lack of competency in the markets. There is what kind of business critical apps you have. There is a transformation as such, you know, as Justin explain you can record, or you can move, you know, to a different platform. So, each time it's a program, it's a program and analysis that we do with our customer advising the customer about, hey, based on your critical application, what is the right journey, what is the right transformation to do the right risk management? >> Justin you're taking the hot core I saw you nodding your head. You're like, yeah, what's your take on that? >> Well, yeah, I agree with you. And that fear, uncertainty and doubt it's kept people on the mainframe for a really long time. The technology has caught up and the expertise where just as JP said, you've got to be really careful in the way you plan it, and you've got to make sure that you can always get back. And so the approach that we're looking at taking is, you're able to accommodate more risk if there's an easy roll back plan, and some of the new new technologies and processes are going to allow that, so, you know, if I screw this up, I get to go find a job someplace else. So I'm aware of the white hot core, but I am confident it can be done. >> Yeah, and then technology, if you don't have to kill the old to bring in the new, you can do both, and I like your approach. I think that's a success path that people are talking about it's well documented. But at the end of the day, we're back in distributed computing, I mean, I want to get this at the end, but I want to give you guys some time to think about it. As cloud becomes everywhere as Adam Selipsky talks about, it's not just about mainframes, this it's a distributed computing paradigm. So we're going to come back to that, but let's get into the SAP Redshift `cause I think that's something that you guys are working on I think that's worth calling out here. Analytics is huge, tell us what's going on there, how you guys are working together on that. >> Yeah, so we have designed a high level of competency around SAP, and especially the migration and the SAP Redshift. So we have designed this program also with AWS and is something we are discussing at the moment also with Ingram. So we see an acceleration of this trajectory. It has been also highly pushed by SAP as well. And also we are one of the strongest partner of SAP and we see many many customers engage into this transformation at the moment. >> The cloud really gives you a lot of advantages when you're doing migration, especially around a pre-existing software, like SAP was pretty big, complex mission critical So you can throw compute at it, a lot of cool capabilities. >> Yeah, that's true, but you need, you still need to configure a lot of things as well, because it's, you need to customize and you have to really fine tune, you know, what is it, what is going to be available to the customer needs and to what you need in your company as well. >> Okay, lets get back to what Justin was saying about emulation, I mean, I can run SAP (laughs) on Amazon. I mean, we've talked about it, I wrote a story about this prior to the event called Superclouds. You can build these super applications that combine things that you never would have thought was possible. SAP running on Amazon or Ford can come to Redshift when you need it, so you have a lot more flexibility. This is now the new normal. >> Correct. >> Correct. Or Justin maybe you want also to comment on that, you know? >> You know, the great thing about being on Redshift is we pick that as a platform for our data warehouse a number of years ago, and there were basically analytics capabilities, but what we're seeing a lot here at re:Invent is as Amazon is catching up with their out of the box ML and AI capabilities in Redshift. So it feels good that we pick the platform that they're growing the capabilities in right, as we're advancing out of more of the traditional analytics and trying to go to that machine learning. And one of the things that we work at the Atos on is migrating off of SAPBW and saying, maybe we don't need that as a data and reporting platform, if we're solid with Redshift and we certainly don't need both. So we're working with them to look at the case to move all the way to Redshift, and then we can run our analytics and build the ML in that. >> And you know, that was a big theme in the keynote. This purpose-built capabilities, it's almost like having, you know, if you're building a building, you got iron steel girders made for you. You got this now better value in the platform to build on. This brings up the notion of distributed computing. >> JP: Yeah. >> In a way there's the same game, different generation. I mean, isn't it? You've got to integrate this still transformations inflection points, this is current. I feel like this now more than ever is a time where you can actually roll it all together with a little help from your friends or if Amazon's got somebody, you know, who want to reinvent the wheel. What's your reaction to that? 'Cause we've seen the movie before, when it's hard. Now, it seems easier, maybe its not. >> Yeah, we see three layers co-existing in more more. We see that, see application on data will be spread over three dimensions there will be edge computing there will be private cloud and there will be public cloud. And we see more more pressure in the direction that many customers are saying, hey, where should I put my data? This spot will go on and be processed at the edge, this spot will be process in the public cloud. There is also one of the capability where we in Atos we are able to advise customers about what is the best way to process your data if you have a lot of latency, you can process at the edge. You know, there's less equipment, you can process the public cloud. So, we see this coexistence of model. >> Justin what's your take on this distributed computing throwback concept, because look at the rise of companies like Snowflake. Where'd they come from? They're on Amazon, they pick the cloud. Now they're on going to other clouds. You can build a supercloud. You can actually build this out now faster. What's your take? >> Yeah, I, my take is that it's a pendulum and it swings back and forth, and like you said, there was client server and then everything was web-based. And a lot of things look a lot like the mainframe, put everything in the cloud and then attached to it. And then all of a sudden, you know what? We need edge computing, pull some stuff back out of the cloud and put it where we need it. So, it's going to continue to evolve. What I have noticed that I like more is, the major home one swings and statements like I want to get out of the data center business and go to the cloud, I hear those less. And people are realizing there's there's hybrid. There's purpose build computing like you said, and we need to make sure that we're putting our data where it needs to be, putting our compute where it needs to be. And that's going to change on our customer base and evolving technologies 5G is changing the whole world around edge computing. So I'm enjoying the ride, I'm glad I'm in technology because I get to move with the ebbs and flows, but I don't think we're ever going to land. I think it's going to keep moving. >> Yeah that's a totally fair point where it's fun as a technologist, but you're right. If you're operating with cloud, it doesn't matter if you're on premises or edge or public cloud, it's the same thing (laughs). >> Justin: Yeah. >> It's just pick your, pick, your use case. >> Justin: Right, your use case- >> I want a low latency at the edge. I'm not going to move my data, send it to cloud. Of course, we're going to leave it there. >> Yeah. >> If you're on premise before- >> We've already move workloads back and forth. And a lot of companies are doing that too, you know? >> I think that's what they're getting at when they talk about cloud everywhere. I think that's their way of saying, okay, hybrid is real. They won't ever say multicloud though. (all laughing) Not yet. (all laughing) >> Won't hear that here. >> All right, quick summary. What do you guys do? And what's the future hold for the relationship. You guys got a good thing going on? Take us through what's the future look like. >> Yeah, for me it's a big thank you for the partnership with Ingram. So we are extremely excited by what we can do for you. And in terms of advising your transformation and, you know, I hope that you get the right service and the right advice, you know, from Atos. >> Yeah, it's been great. We, we've appreciated. We've been, we started as a mainframe customer and now they're helping to advise on how we could get off the mainframe. I mean really cannibalizing one of the other areas there in the spirit of evolving and partnership, and you guys are bringing a ton of expertise and the way you guys attack the account and we centralized through our account team is very helpful. You're very aware of what's going on on all sides of the business. >> Well, congratulations. >> That's a big part of the theme, the keynote today on, on ad about mainframe transmission. But at the end of the day, it's about modern infrastructure, modern application development. >> Justin: Absolutely. >> Getting out, having set the table for the next generation. >> JP: Yeah. >> Thanks for coming on theCUBE and you guys want to get a quick plug in real quick for the company talk about Atos and Ingram. Give a quick plug for what you guys are working on. >> Sorry- >> Give a quick plug about what you`re working on. Give a quick commercial one minute about the company. >> One minute. >> Yeah. >> At Atos we're really transforming or leading the industry in terms of secured transformation to cloud security will be more and more important as data is everything about where is the value. So we are really making sure that our customers, they get to maximize, they can maximize the value around data transformation to cloud in a secured way. >> Justin, JP, thanks for coming on theCUBE. Really appreciate the insights. Don't touch the hot core and make, take your time. Have a good time, you're watching theCUBE, the official broadcasting of AWS re:Invent leader in tech coverage, theCUBE. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>> Narrator: From Miami Beach, Florida, it's theCUBE. Covering Acronis Global Cyber Summit 2019. Brought to you by Acronis. >> Hey, welcome back, everyone, it's theCUBE's coverage of Acronis Global Cyber Summit 2019 here in Miami Beach, Florida, at the Fontainebleau hotel. I'm John Furrier hosting theCUBE. We're here with Craig Weir, Director of Cloud Portfolio at Ingram Micro. Welcome to theCUBE. Director of Cloud Portfolio at Ingram Micro Cloud, so you guys have a cloud and you guys have sales, technicals out there? >> We got everything, so we have the platform itself, so we have our own platform that is used by one-third of the world telcos. We have large VAR's, DVAR's, SP's using our platform. We're also a cloud aggregator, so we offer pretty much any vendor solution on there, so today, we have over 200 solutions on our platform. We offer services to help partners grow and expand because jumping from where they are today to where they want to go tomorrow is very difficult, so we offer those services, so it's a full package. >> You know, I'm really impressed with Ingram. I got to tell you, Ingram Micro, you guys have essentially reinvented you guys' self in plain sight, so it's like changing the airplane out of 35,000 feet, it's really hard to do. You guys have done it, you've essentially taken a distribution model to the cloud, maintained that stickiness with your clients and partners, and now have automation built in. >> Yeah, we always talk about: we're building a plane while we fly it. And we've been doing that for 10 years. We were the first to get into cloud, we're the world's largest distributor, we know that, but times are changing and you need to adapt with it. So we want to get ahead of the curve, being that we want to own the platform, so we made large acquisitions to be the number-one platform provider. We also want to do the value-added service because partners today want to make that change. They're starting to make that change, but they're not sure exactly how to do it or how to monetize it correctly. So we realized, earlier on, we need to make a massive investment and DNA change in what we do. The old word of pick, pack, and ship is gone, right? Distributing now means a million things that we do. We're more of a service provider than we are anything else. >> Yeah, it's so funny, and also, gross margin used to be higher in the old days. When they started to get hit, started getting out of that direct distribution, there was margin pressure, and again, channel businesses are very efficient. The weak don't survive very long and the ones that are smart actually evolve. This is a great case where you can wrap services around it and, with the cloud, you get operating leverage. So you have an investment, now you have a business model for the next 10, 20 years. >> Yeah, if you think about distributions' basis points, it's a term that doesn't really exist outside distribution where you're razor-thin on those margins, but to your point on cloud, it's much heavier lift, it's much more cooperative selling, so obviously, we want to focus there where we can have growth at a higher profitable rate. And, if you can wrap around platform services around that and make you more money and give more value to the channel, why not? >> Well, that's what the channel wants. They want profitability, want to keep their customers, and increase their gross profit, and that's from services. Now, with software economic margins coming in, the revenue is higher. Software economics are great. >> Yeah, and I think a lot of partners today, NSP's, LAR's, VAR's, DVAR's, they don't really know what is their company actually worth? What's the multiple, right? And they're trying to do that assessment of how much your businesses are actually services and how much is that just reoccurring on an annuity basis, not managed service in some respect. So, for us, we look at that and say, well, how do we actually help you migrate that business? We want to get you to 60, 50, 70% services-led where you're making an average of 10, 20, 30 points. >> And a lot of your partners too have long-standing relationships with customers. And so, by you innovating, that just trickles down to them. That makes it sticky for you guys, great business model. Craig, talk about your relationship with Acronis. We're here at their Global Cyber Summit 2019. Talk about what you guys are doing with them. >> So we've been with Acronis for six years now. We're their largest distributor worldwide. We operate from pretty much every country we operate. They're one of our leading, actually, they are our leading backup disaster recovery and cybersecurity solution. We've an amazing partnership at every single level. When it comes to how we go to market, how we back its position, how we recruit enable partners, it's really next to none. We've very, very aggressive timelines and goals for next year for where we want to go, and where that means it's actually growth, expansion, service offering, no matter what head count we have towards this initiative. Acronis is our number-one provider. >> They have a similar DNA and they're thinking like you guys do with the cloud, thinking about how that transformation business model evolved for Ingram Micro. They're seeing it now with their unique integrated... Well, it won't be unique for long 'cause I think everyone is going to copy it. This integrated holistic view having a platform that's an enable, not just hardware, the infrastructure, where they got a platform layer which is enabling capabilities for sets of services on top. Theirs and their ISV's and developers, I mean that's just a proven platform formula. What's your feedback on that? Do you see that translating well in the field, in the partner networks? >> Yeah, very well, I think today, you think of backup disaster recovery as legacy backup disaster recovery. Where am I backing up to, why am I backing? It's for that disaster. Not remediation of issues, security risks. You're seeing them go into a completely security play which someone argues and says it makes no sense, your backup disaster recovery, your BDR. But, if you think of the ransomware attacks today, the fact that I can have a safe copy hooked up in minutes, the ransomware is no longer an issue. And how they position that is really a security end-to-end solution. It doesn't mean you don't need any other security. Obviously, you still do. But it comes at a very different angle and I think it provides a bit of clarity to customers who are confused. They said that earlier, they mentioned: how many different security providers are becoming open every single day? >> No one wants to buy another tool. >> No, and there's no more large mega offer. There's no one solution. >> You know, solving the ransomware problem certainly is a great way to get breached in any account. Hey, I get the mousetrap for solving ransomware. In that case, that's when a better mousetrap works. You're right to the front of the line. Then, once you're in there, then you got to figure it out. This is what's interesting to me is that it's a data solution. I think you cracked that nut, it's a winning formula. >> If you think of a really basic, what are we trying to do or who are we trying to protect? Either people or information, right? We're not worrying about protecting people today. We're talking about information, so at the end of the day, what's most vital for a company's organization? You're looking at their customer data, their personal data, financial data, and if you think about would you want them to have access to, how do you want to mediate that? So the ability of end-to-end and how that story, which was really, really important to the customer, to have the clarity on why, is critical. >> Well, you guys do a great job on security. I read your reports every year that go out at VMworld and Reinvent, all the different events you guys go to. You guys have great security groups, props to those guys. I want to get back to this data backup thing that you mentioned earlier 'cause we had some insight from our conversation. I was just on with a Forrester analyst where, if you look at backup and recovery, it was basically because it was some operational disruption. That had nothing to do with security. I was like, lights go out, hurricane, Hurricane Sandy, whatever happens, something's happening. And that was all built around the continuity of its down rollback. But now the disruption is security. So no one's actually thought about it that way. So I think these guys have a great angle. I'm thinking of it like, well, if the disruption's security, that eliminates almost all the current solutions because they're just rolling back bad code. >> I don't think it eliminates all of them, but it's a great point. >> Well, the majority of them. >> You sit there and go, well, why is Acronis a security provider? It makes no sense. And you sit back and start thinking about the approach 'cause, again, we're thinking old BD and R. The new world of backup and disaster recovery is not the disaster being a natural occurrence or something with this were to happen. It's the every-single-day cyberattack and ransomware that's happening on a regular basis. That's the new norm. New norm isn't the hurricane, it isn't the cyclone, it's security attacks every day. >> And, happening weekly, two towns are being taken out. Craig, observations from your standpoint being an industry participant. Got experience out there in the field, talked to a lot of customers. You guys have your own cloud. Just in general, the top story of this whole cyber protection, security, data world, what's the top story in your mind? What's the most important story that needs to be continually covered and talked about? >> I think what we're missing today is a lot of partners aren't protecting their own house. At the end of the day, when an MSP is looking after their end user's data, do they really understand what they're responsible for? Do they have the right system in place, right? It's back to the constant security attacks. We're seeing, time and time again, MSP's, medium to small, are having massive breaches and going out of businesses in no time. You see MSP's who want to go to MSSP, but that requires-- >> John: What's that mean? >> Managed security service provider. >> John: Okay, all right. >> So you're an MSP specializing, dedicated on... And security, you have a SOC, which means you have a security operational center, meaning that you have to either buy that or go and invest on it or maybe partner with somebody. It's incredibly expensive. So MSP's today-- >> John: The compliance and the insurance alone. >> The compliance, insurance, the expertise. There's a massive shortage of people. So we see the MSP's today may be fine. Maybe 10% could go make that leap to MSP so that everyone else is figuring out: how do I manage the security space? I have all these different offers I have and solutions I have. A lot of them are homegrown, they're not very good. So, at the end of the day, when we look at what's missing is, hey, if you're an MSP, is your own house protected? Before you try to put everyone else's. Because, if you're managing all that data from that partner, you better make sure your house is protected. >> Protect your own house and I think that's interesting, what just came out of Acronis is that, it's a little bit of a flashy announcement, but the blockchain notary, they say, hey, we'll protect the data in all forms and we'll encrypt it on a blockchain. So that speaks to this blockchain problem. Well, data's a supply chain. >> It is, and you sit there... Again, let's talk old backup disaster recovery. You have data somewhere, it's a copy of your file. Do you know it's a clean copy, an authentic file? Do you know that something hasn't happened to it? And before, we never would've known that. Now we do. >> Yeah, well, I've always said in theCUBE, Dave Vellante and I talk about storages, not about the storage, CPU's and the hardware, but the data that's being stored. Take care of your own house first before you take on other people's data. I love that analogy. >> Yeah and customers are getting smart these days. Customers are looking, they're doing reading. Most customers look each at a time. They're looking at word-of-mouth, a trusted advisor, and they're doing research online. So they're demanding this. >> Craig, I really appreciate your insights. Thanks for taking time to share. Take a minute to give a plug for what you guys do in the cloud, how does someone get involved and work with you, what's a customer for you? Take a minute to give a plug out for what you guys do. >> So Ingram Micro, so we're the largest cloud organization in the world. We'll talk U.S. specifically. >> John: Cloud? >> U.S. cloud. >> John: Amazon's bigger. >> As a distributor. >> John: Okay, distributor cloud, that's what I thought. Just to make sure, you keep an eye on them. >> Yeah, no, it's a good point. So we actually are, we do distribute AWS, we do distribute Azure. They're largest for both of them in the channel perspective. But partners today, what I would say the opportunity to them is there's those who play very heavily in the space, then those that do not. Everyone is somewhere in the middle. Working with Ingram Micro, the ability to really, what we said, the Cloud Awesomeness Roadmap which we presented earlier, we're taking a partner from infancy maybe doing a handful of SaaS offers today to going 10, 20 offers on a regular basis. We really enable and train them to make that jump both financially and from a skillset perspective. >> Can anyone get involved? You guys have a vetting process? They have a cloud SaaS app? >> Yeah, so cloud marketplace, if you're an Ingram Micro account today, you have a free account into our cloud marketplace, which is our e-commerce buying engine which is built on CloudBlue, which is our platform. Free access to it, online purchasing of any SaaS offer you want, depending on what the authorizations are by the SaaS offer. Free access to our team when it comes to how to enable support them, whether it's security, UCA's, backup disaster recovery, public cloud, Microsoft, you name it. And it's really a team dedicated to help the problem solvers, which is everyone here today, solve the current problem of how to get more of an annuity subscription basis. >> Awesome, well, congratulations. Cloud marketplaces are hot, you guys are number-one channel, distributor, cloud, whatever it's called. Is there a category? >> For making new-- >> Channel cloud. >> Yeah, you could say-- >> Distributor cloud. >> We're a distribution service provider. >> Congratulations Ingram Micro trends. Building the plane while they're flying it, I love that one too. It's theCUBE, we're a-flying here in Miami Beach at the Fontainebleau hotel for Acronis' Global Cyber Summit 2019. We're back with more coverage after this short break. (upbeat electronic music)

(upbeat music) >> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering Fortinet Accelerate 18. Brought to you by Fortinet. >> Welcome back to theCUBEs continuing coverage of Fortinet Accelerate 2018. I'm Lisa Martin here in Las Vegas with my co-host Peter Burris and we're excited to welcome a Cuba alumni back to theCUBE, please welcome Eric Kohl, the VP of Advanced Solutions from Ingram Micro. Welcome back! >> Thank you, thanks for having me back. Excited to be here. >> Yes, we're very excited. So tell us, what's new? We talked to you last year at this event, what's new and Ingram? Tell us about your role there and the things that are all exciting Ingram Micro. >> Yeah, brand-new for me. I'm in my 20th year at Ingram Micro. I lead our security practice for Ingram Micro U.S. and I have responsibility for sales, vendor management, strategy and execution on behalf of our manufacturer partners. It's a ever evolving space. It's such a great space to be in, I love watching the news every day. You know there's going to be some big logo but just as much fun as I have watching those, that's some of these small breaches that you don't hear about and it's just fascinating. So much more exciting than virtualization. (laughs) >> Some might argue with that. So tell us about the partnership that you guys have with Fortinet. How has that evolved over your time there? >> Yeah so been at Ingram for 10 and I've been working with Fortinet for, I'm sorry I've been at Ingram for 20 and been with Fortinet for over 10, back to when we signed the contract together. Just a very great partnership. They're our security partner of the year, last year. Good friends, excited to see John Bove back leading channels back to Fortinet and you know, we both invest in each other's success and so I think that's pretty unique. Huge investment for them here, having an event like this. Not every company does it but to bring everybody together where you can have security conversations get on the same page, it's extremely valuable, huge investment, and we're proud to be a sponsor. >> I'd love to chat about a little bit of the evolution that you've seen at Fortinet in the last 10 years as we look at, you mentioned breaches. I mean, there were some very notable things that happened in 2017. How have you seen the evolution from them on a security transformation standpoint as it relates to your customers and digital transformation. >> Yeah, so I mean it's something that we see every day from you know, as you know we sell to and through partners but you know, one thing obviously is their breath of solutions has expanded. But you know, also things that partners are asking us today is how is this technology being consumed? And in the face of digital transformation, that's a huge value point because ultimately we want to help our partners to architect, recommend the right technology to solve that business problem and then how do you want to consume it? How does your want to your client want to consume that? So I think that's one of the biggest kind of trends that we're seeing right now. >> So as you think about where you've come from to where you are and we'll talk a little bit about where you think might go, what were the stories you told about security 10 years ago? And how are they different from the stories you're telling about security today? >> I would say it's changed from my perspective because at Ingram, we have never ever been a services company like we are today. And so what I mean by that is, we wrap our services, partner services around the Fortinet solution to make it stronger. 10 years ago I would say we are living more in the traditional distribution role of hey, how do we get a box from here to there? Certainly channel enablement, we've been doing that for a long time but our offering of services to help drive demand is incredibly strong. You know, we work with Fortinet for example, on their threat assessment program and we have an engineer that can go and help. Our partners understand to do that, it's a huge partner ecosystem and so we've got to help them with all those channel enablement efforts. >> What are some of the biggest security challenges that you're hearing, say in the last year or so through the channel, that your partnership with Fortinet can help address? >> You know, it's all around complexity and that as you have likely heard that the shortage of folks that can get out and do some of these services have limitations. There's incredibly high demand for services, you know we're serving a channel ecosystem of roughly 12,000 companies that are buying security technology from us, all with varying degrees of capability and so we've really got to help them understand, hey, how can we help you deploy these services, etc. >> So as you imagine then the steps associated with helping the customer, the roles and relationships between Fortinet, Ingram, and your partners also must be evolving. So how is, as a person responsible for ensuring that that stays bound together in a coherent way for customers, how are you seeing that changing? >> Well you know, look it's a three-legged stool. (laughs) It's us, it's Fortinet and that's our partner community and we're reliant on each other to go and be successful in the market. Look, we couldn't be as great as we are working with our Fortinet channel ecosystem if we didn't have the support of Fortinet, the investments they make, the team that they have wrapped around our business, the team we've put in place wrapped around their business so that's kind of what I'm seeing there. >> They shared a lot of momentum not only in the keynotes this morning but also a number of the guests that we've had on the show today in terms of what Fortinet achieved last year. 1.8 billion in billing, nearly 18 thousand new customers acquired, a lot of momentum, a lot of numbers, I love that theme of the event today. So if we look at some of the things that were shared by Kenzie this morning for example, like I mentioned that the customer numbers and even talking about what they're doing to protect 90% of customers in the global S&P 100 and showed some some big brands there. Tell us a little bit about the partnership and how you're leveraging the momentum of what Fortinet is able to do in terms of capturing customers. How does that momentum translate and really kind of maybe fuel Ingram and what you're able to do? >> Well look, I mean there's incredible demand in security today. There was a slide that they showed this morning and I think it was the perfect storm. I like to call the security space a beautiful disaster. It's a mess, it's complicated, it's scary, the threat attacks are you know new and different and they're never going to stop but it again comes back to hey, how do we work together to kind of harness this? How do we go and there's a great partner community here, lots of our friends are here but they can't all be here. So we want to be able to help take that message out to our channel partners that were not here. Things like that. >> What are some of, oh sorry, go ahead Peter. >> I was going to say so Ingram, Ingram itself has changed. You said you've now, are now introducing security or you're introducing more services. So how is that.. How is security leading that charge to move from a more of a product and a distributor to now services? Is security one of the reasons why Ingram is going in that direction? >> It's one of them. I joked on virtualization but there's a lot of services that we can wrap around and I think, obviously there's a high demand of services and we will lead with Fortinet services and solutions where we can. We want our partners to lead with theirs but really we've hired people to go out do assessments. We have a partner ecosystem where, hey I can't get down to New Mexico to do an install. We have a partner network where they can tap into that and make sure that everything is installed correctly, all the features are turned on. You think about all these breaches that happen in the news, it's not that they didn't have the technology, they missed an alert or they didn't have it all deployed. We want to be able to help our partners solve for that. >> Along the partnership front, what are some of the things that excite you about the Fabric-Ready Partner Program and the announcements they've made today? >> Yeah, love it. Look Fortinet has built comprehensive end-to-end solutions within their Fortinet, I'm sorry, for their Fabric ecosystem but they've also recognized that they can't do it all alone and so they've introduced a lot of partners into that. And so what's exciting for me, leading our security category is, hey how do we bring new partners into our ecosystem too? Because it is a differentiator for Ingram to be able to provide multi-vendor solutions. To have somebody you can go to to say, how does SentinelOne work with for Fortinet Fabric? Those types of things, those conversations are happening all the time. >> Another thing that was announced today was what they're doing with with AI. Tell us a little bit about that and how are you seeing what they're going to be able to do with AI as an advantage for your partners and customers. >> Again the artificial intelligence, machine learning, it all goes back to making the technology easier to use. I still think, you think intelligence and I think back to the human factor. Some of these big breaches, look the threat actors are going to get in but how you recover from a breach, I think if we could inject some artificial intelligence into some of these companies that haven't figured out how to successfully pivot. You know paying your hacker a hundred thousand dollars to keep quiet is not the answer but I think that some of these machine learning things are going to make it easier. It's going to be easier to manage the alerts that are happening every day. So anything that helps eliminate, as they said today, the enemy of security is complexity. Things that help to discover these threats and remediate against them, all good stuff for our partners. >> On the enablement side, when we were talking with the channel chief, John Bove, earlier today and talking about sort of this long history of partner focused culture at Fortinet. Tell us about that in terms of the enablement that you're able to glean from them and then pass on to your channels in terms of selling strategies, marketing to, marketing through. What are some of the things that-- >> Look, we have an amazing team. John Bove, Curt Stratton, the folks that really spent so much time working with Ingram and then we've built an amazing team. I think we have 12 people from our company here at this event to make sure we're making the most out of it but you know. If you heard, we're at The Cosmo. They have Secret Pizza, have you been there? Have you heard about it? >> Lisa: No, Secret Pizza? >> Yeah, it's amazing, it's pretty good, okay. (laughs) >> You didn't bring any, I noticed that but continue. >> I didn't but it's secret not-so-secret pizza but we have some secret not so secret weapons. Jenna Tombolesi an NSE 7. She's one of the highest certified engineers on the planet and she works for Ingram Micro helping to technically enable some of our partners. We've got a guy by the name of Will The Thrill Sharland and The Thrill is out talking to partners every single day, helping them to be more profitable, trusted security advisors helping them through anything you can imagine from a channel enablement perspective. And then just huge teams of people that we go to serve this big market together. >> Are you seeing any vertical specificities? When Ken was sharing some slides this morning, they were talking about, they showed some verticals from a kind of market share perspective but I'm curious some of the verticals that kind of come to mind where security is concerned that maybe are a little bit more elevated than some of the others in terms of risk or health care education and financial services. Maybe Fed, SLED, are you seeing any verticals in particular, maybe those that are really going to be kind of having to be leading-edge, where security transformation is concerned? >> They have to be. Think about health care and when they're big ransomware attack hit last year. There's guys on CNN saying, they had to postpone my surgery because ransomware head. I mean that's life-and-death stuff there but I don't think there's any vertical that's immune to what's going on today. So I think you know regardless of your vertical, you have to be prepared, you have to choose the right technology, and choose the right partner to help you implement it. >> If you imagine where Ingram's going to go with this relationship, what kinds of things are you looking to be able to do as a consequence of great strong partnership with Fortinet. >> Look, the way that companies want to consume technology is changing in the space of digital transformation. Once we work with Fortinet and the partner to recommend the right technology and I mentioned this, like how do you want to consume it? Is it public cloud, is it AWS, or Azure? We have an answer for that today is that hey, it's on premise but I need some creative financing to help close this deal to solve a budget constraint. We have an answer for that. There's several variations of that but however that technology wants to be consumed, we have an answer together. So I think that's a testament to the strength of our relationship. >> And I think one of the words that I saw in, at least one of the press releases, was adaptability. Adaptability of some of the technologies and even John Madison was kind of talking about how customers can go, I've got 20-plus security products, how do I start this Fabric? And that word adaptability kind of jumped out at me as how do you enable adaptability when your customers, through the channel, have so many technologies in place and how does Fortinet help that adaptation? >> I would say they're placing bets like we are on top partners that are going to lead with that technology. They've got to go be the experts in that field and really start driving that. Events like this help get everybody on the same page, understand the new offerings. I mentioned Jenna, she was locked in a room all day yesterday all excited about all these things. She's been running around all day but look we've just got to help the channel understand what the new technologies are, what are the new offerings, and hey, how do we go solve that customer problem together. >> So are there any particular new approaches or tactics or techniques that you're using to get the channels to understand better? >> I don't think that there's anything necessarily new. We're all driving towards the same common goal. Having a security conversation today is easier than ever before so you know, I think we're we're going to continue doing what we've been doing. It's been very successful for us but that's, you know. >> What are some of the things, kind of wrapping up here, that you're looking forward to throughout the rest of 2018? We're kind of still in the first quarter calendar, some big announcements from your partner here today. What are some of the things that excite you at Ingram about the year of 2018? >> Look, it's a market that's that's really ripe right now and I think that when you talk about their new technologies, when you talk about the machine learning, there's a lot of these things happening out there. It's just look, we've got a huge market. The potential is unlimited and I think one area where we're really going to drill down this year is down market, down SMB in mid market because they need enterprise grade technology and Fortinet delivers that and has a history of delivering that. So I think we're going to double click down there together this year and John and his team have been great around putting some programs together for us to go and tackle that together. >> Excellent, well we thank you so much Eric for stopping by theCUBE again. >> Yes and I'll bring pizza next time. >> Please do. >> All right. >> Yes and maybe some beverages so we don't have dry throats. >> Of course, yes. >> So we wish you and Ingram the best of luck in this next year and we look forward to talking to you next year, if not sooner. >> Sounds good. Great, thank you. >> We want to thank you for watching theCUBE's continuing coverage of Fortinet Accelerate 2018. For Peter Burris, I'm Lisa Martin, after the short break we'll be right back. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: Live, from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE, covering Fortinet Accelerate18. Brought to you buy Fortinet. (upbeat digital music) >> Welcome back to theCUBE's continuing coverage of Fortinet Accelerate 2018. I'm Lisa Martin, with my co-host Peter Burris, and we are now joined by the CISO of Ingram Micro Kevin Kealy. Welcome to theCUBE. >> Thank you both very much. It's nice to be here. >> I love your title, the Prince of Security Weirdness, your other title. >> Yeah, right. >> Tell us about where you got that and why you like it. >> I was at a customer engagement years ago, when I was working for AT&T, in of all places, Moline, Illinois, and I was working with a lady whose business card actually said Protocol Princess. And the customers, based on what we were actually there to do, the customer decided that if she was the Protocol Princess, then I had to be the Prince of Security Weirdness, because the problem ended up being a combination of something very odd that was happening with their security appliances plus the network itself. And so, of course she spread that when we got back to the office and it just kind of stuck from thereon. I kind of like it. If a company found something weird that was going on with security, they'd just go, "Send him, he'll sort it out." And I did. >> So you've seen probably a really interesting evolution of security. >> Kevin: Oh yeah. >> You've been the CISO for almost a couple years. >> Kevin: Yep, almost two years, yeah. Longest tenured one in a while, I think. >> And you have an interesting kind of strategic perspective. Tell us a little bit about that and what makes that unique. >> Sure, so from a CISO perspective it used to be the CISO was the C-E NO. You know, the place where business goes to die. My feeling is, if I'm not adding lift to the business, then I'm adding drag. And if you're adding drag then you're not being a responsible custodian of the company's money or it's direction. So my feeling is, and my strategic objective is, always partner with business to help them achieve what they need to achieve, but to do it safely and in a way that doesn't add risk to the company. So, I like to say you look through your lens at something, it looks ridiculous. Somebody's doing something truly stupid. But if you pivot your perspective and you look at what they're doing it for, they have a perfectly reasonable and rational expectation of their results and what they're trying to achieve. What you need to do is to adjust your thinking to understand what you currently don't understand in order to pivot them to get to a safe perspective, and therefore business. >> So one of the key differences between business and digital business, is the role that data plays. But we could also take a security perspective. Business was about securing and limiting access. Digital business is about sharing and making possible access. >> Kevin: Right. >> So is that kind of what you mean when you say that you're not the C-NO? You're not the C-YES necessarily, but you're really focused on how to appropriately share? >> Completely agree. My approach is always, let's consult with each other, tell me what you're trying to achieve and let's not look at what's caused me to be in your business today, let's look at what you're trying to achieve. What's your end goal? Right, now let's work together to achieve that in a way that adds limited... 'cuz you can't ever have a solution that exposes stuff without adding any risk,. But there's always an acceptable risk appetite that you have to maintain in order to do business, right? With risk comes opportunity and reward, right? So you can never eliminate all risk. So my approach is, understand what they're trying to do. Look at how much risk there is in any different way of doing it, and then choose the way that offers you the most risk reduction for the least capital expenditure and operational expenditure. And gets them to market the quickest. At that point now, I know I've done my responsible part of keeping risk under control. I maintain a risk register, tells me as a whole the company has accepted this much risk. If we do this extra thing, this might put you over what you, the board of directors and management have accepted before. Let's see what we can do to reign that back in here. I have a solution here that's nearly what you want, will that do? You know, another mantra I cite is, don't let perfect be the enemy of good enough. Too many of my peers in the CISO realm keep chasing perfection. You know they see NIST 800 as an achievable goal. They see, you know, total PCI compliance as an achievable goal. My feeling is, as soon as you get to the point where you are PCI compliant, and you still have things to do, then you need to start concentrating on other more risky things that are going on in your business. You can never achieve NIST 800 unless you have a government's funding. I don't know too many CISOs who have a government's funding, right? So my feeling is never let good enough fail to be good enough. Achieve good enough then go and solve other riskier things, and then come back, maybe in a year, couple of years, when it's time to refresh that solution, and see if now that's not good enough anymore. Maybe you need to do something different. But in all cases I'm partnering with business to make sure that whatever I'm doing is adding lift for them, not drag. >> So, Ingram Micro, we just had Eric Kohl on a little bit ago. So Ingram's been a partner with Fortinet for 10 years or so, but you, on your side and your CISO role, are a customer of Fortinet. >> Kevin: Absolutely. >> So in the last couple of years when you came on board, some of the things I'm hearing that you're talking about, sounds like potentially a cultural shift. Talk to us about maybe some of the weirdness that you found in from a security perspective, and how Fortinet is helping you guys on the Ingram, achieve security transformations so that you can evolve. >> Sure, so, Fortinet's been a great partner for me. They have a truly wonderful suite of products. I mean, everything from the edge protection for the dissolving perimeter, all the way out to small and SOHO type firewalls. And then we have wireless access points that are strong and well fortified with the ability to separate between multiple networks, all the way down to FortiDB, which I use to protect our databases. So we do our database monitoring for our critical databases. As a suite of things that I can manage with one console, it helps me minimize the number of operational staff and the operational training they have to do. And then, from my perspective as a customer, Fortinet's always there for me. I know that I can just call them, and within five minutes somebody's calling me back and we can get the right resources right on the phone. That kind of partnership, you can't put a price on that. You know, everybody's at some point in their lives, bought a product that's failed, and then you can't get any customer support on it, and eventually you have to toss it out. Fortinet's always there for me. They're always checking to make sure that we're doing the right thing. And to give you an example of how Fortinet is part of our company fabric, and I use the word in both it's terms, we chose Fortinet gear to protect our CEO's house. Alright? Our CEO, of course, has a lot of, you know, he's a high net worth individual. He has a lot of high value assets that he takes home to work from home. You know he's clearly a target. So for protecting his home and infrastructure there, we deployed Fortinet gear. >> That's a very interesting use case. >> Yeah, and all my staff, including myself, we have Fortinet gear at home as well. So this is the stuff we trust to protect ourselves, when we're in our most vulnerable environment. A lot of people don't think about that. You take these well secured devices and you take them outside the company perimeter. Now they're on their own. You know, if you can take them to a safe environment though, it makes them a lot safer. From an engagement perspective, as the buyer of things for a company like Ingram, one of the first partnerships I made when I first joined the company was with Eric. Because I want to make sure that I'm supporting our sales side as well. So if anybody comes to me and says, "Hey, I have the perfect solution for you." The very first question I ask them is, "Are you a re-seller with us?" And if the answer is no, it's like, call this guy. This Eric Kohl chap, he'll be able to have a very interesting conversation with you. So, Fortinet being such a long-term partner with Ingram, it's an easy purchasing decision for me. Number one on the technology side. Number on on the partner side. You know what that old story is, nobody got fired for buying IBM? At Ingram, nobody got fired for buying Fortinet gear. And it helps that it's the best on the books, for me anyway, for the stuff that I use it for. I'm very excited about the new Fabric. >> Tell us about that, from a visibility perspective internally, complexity, mitigation standpoint, TCO. How is that going to help you at Ingram? >> So, you said the word, visibility. One of the first things I did when I got to Ingram, was I realized I couldn't see all the way to the edges and to the bottom of my network. So I started to increase the visibility with a combination of the Fortinet product suite, I think I'll be able to get the edge-to-edge, top-to-bottom visibility. And I'm really excited about the web-based CASD solution. 'Cuz what I really don't want to do, and one of the talks this morning, the keynote was talking about it, is the vendor, just the vendor pile of different things that have to be managed. All the different people we have to get training from. All of the currency that you have to maintain. If I can manage it all through one console, And I only have to train my staff in one suite of products, that makes the overall work that they do that much simpler to execute. And I love the concept of being able to make those contextual rules. You know, if this device is in this class then don't let it go over to this data that's in this class. That's so simple to describe. And I love the fact that you can then orchestrate that deployment. So when as we go to a virtualized environment, and we roll into cloud and so on, being able to push a policy like that and being able to push that context is going to be so exciting for me. >> One of the challenges of integration is that you get dependencies. >> Yes. >> So as a CISO, and you start looking at a fabric, and as you said, it's a very rich fabric, it does a lot of work. How do you ensure that you don't find, 'cuz if there's a vulnerability inside the fabric, then the whole fabric gets affected. So what is that trade-off between integration and dependency for you? >> So, that's a great question. Back in 1998,'99, I was at AT&T during what was, it became known as the Great Frame Relay Outage, that AT&T had. Many people will remember that. >> Not to laugh at you. >> Do you remember it, though? >> I do remember it. >> Right? >> Kevin: And the cause of that was, the company was entirely CISCO on the back burner. I was one of the engineers that was there trying to fix it all. CISCO had a self-deploying patch protocol where you drop a patch onto a device and it would automatically push the patch to all its neighboring devices and so on. Well you dropped the patch on this device, it would push the patch towards its neighbors, then it would crash and reboot. But it had already had time to push the patch to all its neighbors. So one by one, every single router and switch in the entire network, received a patch and then crashed and rebooted. And that became a three-week problem known as The Great Frame Relay Outage of 1998. So at that point, our then CISO, Edward Amoroso, he decided that we wanted vendor diversity in our network. And at AT&T at the time, then, we went to CISCO on the edge, Juniper in the core. And the reason was, we wanted the network to be able to stay up and routing, even if we has a problem on the edge. And of course, automatic patch push protocol was disabled. (laughing) From my perspective, I think, there's a fine line to be managed here. Southwest Airlines has made a very concrete and a very risky, but certainly it's worked out for them right now, decision. All their aircraft are Boeing 737s. So they only have to train their maintenance staff to maintain one airplane. All their pilots can fly all their airplanes. >> Lisa: My brother's a pilot for them, yes. >> Right? >> Yeah. >> Kevin: All of them are 737s, but if the FAA grounds 737s, all of Southwest is out of business, for the duration of the flying ban, right? So Southwest has decided they don't need vendor diversity across their fleet. I know they bought Allegiant, and that's got a number of Boeing aircraft, however, from the perspective of their original business plan, all 737s because they now have a very, very well defined TCO. From my perspective I think, there's a line to be drawn here, but Fortinet has me covered. They have their APIs. They work with the other vendors. So if I have a SIM or a log manager or something like Splunk deployed, they already have that partnership in place. It means they can manage the data within the device as though it's my own data, as though it's within the Fortinet Fabric. And that then keeps me happy. Because I then get the benefits of the additional features perhaps that I would get from a Splunk rather than a Fortinet tool, but I also get the vendor diversity that's there. See Splunk for me is not just a security tool, it's a VI tool and there are many other groups that are leveraging the capabilities that it has. So for me, if I went to something like the Fortinet SIM, that would be a very selfish solution. It would be just a security thing. That's not really partnering with business. My investment in Splunk, I've got six other groups within the company leveraging it, and I just invited the seventh one in today. Now those people are all using Splunk for their own things. I'm footing the bill for them so they get all this VI for free. That's been a real big win for me, because I'm now known as the guy that's providing stuff that the company can actually use. That's a very powerful position to be in as the CISO because when I come asking for something that normally they would've said no to, all I have to do is remind them, "Hey, you know you're using my Splunk solution? "Well now, would you mind helping me out? "I need you to do this thing "with your laptops in your organization." And they're much more receptive because they know of me as a partner. >> So would you say, one of the things we were talking about a number of times today, Peter, with guests, is getting, how, does a CISO get this, well maybe it's enable the balance, at the speed at which a business needs to transform digitally to be profitable and grow and compete and manage that with risk? Where do you think that your are on getting that balance? Sounds like there's a lot of collaboration within what you've been able to achieve. >> So, there's a couple of rules that I go with. The first is I go meet the business leaders and introduce myself. And I say, I know you may have heard this before, but this time I mean it, I'm here to help. Tell me what your pain points are. How can I help you, right? And that's a very powerful question. I always try to end every meeting with "How can I help you?" Alright. If you end the meeting with that question, that last memory they have of you will be, you were offering to help last time I saw you. I'm willing to give you another audience. And then, it's by action. Like my Splunk investment. I invested in it, and now other people are using it. I'm showing by my actions that I'm actually not just all talk. And other people have noticed. They would come to one of my predecessors and say, "Hey, I want to do X." and they would be told straight out, "No." My answer is always, okay. How are you planning to do it? Something brought you here today. Let's talk about it. And then when they show me how they are planning to do it, it's like, you know what, I see opportunity here. You guys can do it in three fewer steps and at significantly less risk if you just let me help you in this area, and then we do it this way, and we use this tool that I've already bought and you don't have to pay for. Now all of a sudden they've got a yes. It's already through. It's through architecture review. They've got the solution in place, but I get the logs and I get to put my own encryption solution in or whatever else it is, and I get to absorb the risk for the company. And again, it's all by actions too. You know, if you make sure that you never say the word no. People say, "No, because." Try to change it to, "Yes, and." And by pivoting the conversation that way all of a sudden people aren't arguing with you. They're trying to sell you something. And when somebody's trying to sell you something and you're buying it now you've got the upper hand, right? So now I'm the buyer. Right, it's like, "Let's buy it, but let's do it like this." >> So I have another question for you. Something that's related to one of the conversations that we've had many times today. I'm going to paint a scenario for you. A CEO is sitting in front of a group of investors. And talking about strategic flexibility and the things that their assets allows her to do. My balance sheet will allow us to do this. My sales force will allow us to do this. When are we going to see the first CEO say, "My security, my digital security, "will allow us to do this, "things that our competitors can't do." >> That's an excellent question, I hope it's soon. I'd like to be right in the vanguard of that. Ingram Micro already uses us as an enabler. >> I'm sorry, what was that? >> Ingram Micro already uses me and my group as an enabler. This year we've been able to negotiate a reduction in our corporate insurance rates, for cyber risk, simply because I was able to show the value in what we've achieved over the last two years. And show how materially we've affected the company's risk envelope and our acceptance of risk. So by doing that, I've already added value to the bottom line because insurance costs money and it's a dead sunk cost, right? So I've already reduced the cost of that. So now all of a sudden I'm enabling the business. And I'm also meaning that we can actually uplift our coverage too, so now we're reducing risk even more. We can displace more risk to the outside of the business. This conversation with Eric, you know, I'm about to award an RFP. Before I award an RFP, I'll go and see Eric. Is there a strategic reason for me to award it to this vendor or this other vendor? Now of course we're negotiating on the sale side and the buy side together. That's a very powerful story. So certainly at Ingram, I think I'm already partnering with the business in such a way that we can make that a compelling message. In terms of the overall industry, I really hope that it'll be soon. I think the CISO and the CIO roles are merging together. I think as the CIO is rolling less hardware and is rolling more into virtual and policy and direction and technology choices, I think people are going to have to realize that security has to be built into that. Because if you try to bake it on later, or bolt it on, it's never as effective. It's always more expensive. You look at something like the Fortinet Fabric, you roll that as part of your orchestrated virtual environment, you've turned the whole attack chain on it's head, now. Now it's going to cost so much to try and compromise any part of that infrastructure, you're going to see it so quickly, you've turned it all around. Now it's way too expensive to try and attack companies with that kind of fabric. Now the boot is on the foot. Okay, so invent something I can't see. You know, we've got contextual threat intelligence here, that's able to spot patterns. We've got polyform on the outside here. Everything's working in concert, okay. >> So you're not worried about being put out of a job any time soon. >> I think sadly this job is around for a while. I used to joke that it was Bill Gates and his company that provided us with permanent job security. Now it's the cyber criminals. I tell you what though, today the simplest attacks are still the ones that work. It's phishing, phishing, phishing, phishing, phishing. People clicking on links. >> Human beings. >> Human beings are always easier to hack than computers. >> So you've given us, last question as we have a minute or so left, you've given us a great perspective of the impact that you've been able to make using Fortinet on the customer side. You talk to a lot of partners in Ingram's ecosystem. How do you impart your wisdom and your expertise on the partners from that enablement, such so that they can go and talk to customers and really share best practices from the CISO suite? >> So again, I partner with Eric's cybersecurity advisory committee, where he has a number of our key security partners who come along. And for two years running now, I've participated. I've spoken. I spent two days with those folks. I'll answer any question they have. I'll spend the evenings with them. We'll have a beer together. And I'll do a panel and I'll have discussions just like this with them. And share with them some of the things that I've done with the company that have worked, and some of the things that haven't worked out quite so well. No holds barred. I'm a big believer in herd immunity. You know, it's an old joke, you don't want to be the fastest antelope, but you sure as hell don't want to be the slowest one either. So from my perspective, the more of us that share that kind of intel, the easier things will be as we go forward. Because together as a herd we'll be more immune. So from my perspective, even if it's a competitor's CISO, I'll still sit down, have a coffee with them and chat with them. And it will be very much open kimono. Because I feel like we can never share enough of this intelligence with each other. We're not seeking to gain a competitive advantage individually. We're seeking to make the field and the companies, and if you like, the white hats, less vulnerable. And I think that's a compelling value message. >> I noticed your clothes. I guess you're an All Blacks fan? >> Well, you know, being South African I have to be a Springboks, but, uh, you know, it was such a sad day when Jonha Lumo died. That was such a sad day. I got to meet him once and he was a mountain of a man, but such a gentleman. Yep, that was good. But yes, rugby is definitely my sport, so thank you. >> Well, Kevin, thank you so much for stopping by theCUBE and sharing your insights, what you've been able to achieve on the consumer side, or consuming Fortinet's technology and what you're able to impart on your partners. We wish you great success in 2018 and look forward to having you back on the show. >> That sounds great, thank you very much. Thanks for having me, it's been a great pleasure, thanks. >> Excellent. And we want to thank you for watching theCUBE from Fortinet Accelerate 2018. I'm Lisa Martin with my cohost Peter Burris, after this short break we will be right back. (upbeat digital music)

>> Commentator: Live from Las Vegas, Nevada. It's theCUBE. Covering Accelerate 2017. Brought to you by Fortinet. Now, here are your hosts, Lisa Martin and Peter Burris. >> Welcome back to theCUBE. We are live at Fortinet Accelerate 2017 in Las Vegas. We've got a great day so far talking to a lot of Fortinet folks, some of their technology alliances partners. And up next we've got Eric Kohl from Ingram Micro. Eric is the Vice President of Advanced Solutions and Eric's going to have a chit chat with myself, Lisa Martin and my co-host, Peter Burris. Eric, first and foremost, welcome to theCUBE. >> Thank you. >> Your first time on. Eric, you are an Ingram Micro veteran. >> Just a little bit. >> Just a little bit. You have previously been their Vice President of Network and Security Business Unit responsible for leadership, for strategy, and channel sales working with solutions, our networking SP's. Tell us about Ingram Micro. What is the role that Ingram Micro plays bolstering Fortinet's channel? >> Sure, yeah, I've been at Ingram for 18 years, it's kind of hard to believe. Our role is really to help kind of shorten the sale cycle for Fortinet partners. So we want to help our partners to become more highly trusted and more profitable security advisors. So I lead our, I'll all it our security practice because I think security is at the tipping point now, so where I used to be networking to security, my portfolio is primarily security and most of the networking guys are leaving the security as well. We play an integral role in really helping to make it easy to do business with our vendor partners. >> Lisa: Fantastic. One of the things that has been a topic that we have heard from the general session today and throughout a number of our guests is you mentioned really networking, but also networking in security really being no longer separate conversations. And the opportunities proliferation to mobile and IOT devices is really creating a talent impact. A talent shortage. How is Ingram Micro helping to maybe mitigate some of the challenges that companies are facing with respect to how to do deal with these daily attacks? >> Eric: Yeah, there's a couple key challenges. It's complexity. It's not just the complexity of some of the technology solutions that are supposed to help us in protecting our data. But when you think about DYOD and the internet of things, there's already a connected device for every human on this planet. And that's a security, that's like a CISO's nightmare is how to protect all of these things. So that's a huge challenge. And then to be able to have the resources to manage the solutions that are complex in themselves, that's a big challenge. And it's not just for the end users themselves, there's thousands and thousands of IT security integrators with varying degrees of competency. We're serving all of them. And even some of these guys are struggling with the complexity. I think one of the other things that we constantly hear from partners is SMB's and mid market companies are under attack like never before. They don't make the headlines like Yahoo or some of the things that are going on in the political world. These small companies are under attack and if they get attacked, they don't make the news, they just go out of business. >> Lisa: Right. >> So that's a huge challenge. >> So demand's going up, significantly. >> This is a great spot to be in. I go to conferences like these and a new breach hits the wire and we're high fiving. It's good for our industry. >> Peter: But that the same time, as demand goes up and the capacity to serve that demand increasingly has to move into technology because of some of these labor shortfalls, it means there's a whole bunch of reconfiguring of where are values created, who's creating value, how they're creating value. How is Ingram Micro finding itself mediating what partners want, what the industry has to offer, and ultimately what the customers of your partners are trying to serve. How are you finding your business evolving? >> Eric: We have transformed more into a services company than ever before. If you think about IT distribution, it used to be about getting a box from point A to point B. That was so far in the past. And for us it's around how do we help augment and provide services kind of what I would say throughout the security sales cycle so that we can help these trusted advisors? Or even if they're not a highly competent security advisor, how do we help them look like they are so they can serve and protect our clients better than anybody. >> Lisa: Actually, you brought up a good point there. Can we ask you about the security sale cycle? You mention you're an 18 year veteran at Ingram Micro. How have you seen the security sale cycle evolve as security itself has evolved and we have this daily expanding threat surface? What's that sales cycle like now? >> Eric: Like I said, many, many, many years ago it was all about moving the products or helping with some financial services but toady Ingram plays a pivotal role throughout that sales cycle. So for us, it kind of starts with training and education. Helping our partners to make sure that they understand the benefits of going to get certified for Fortinet Technologies. Or the benefits of getting your technical accreditation so you can move up into the partner stack and better serve your clients. It's also around helping our partners understand a position like security awareness trainings as an example. You can have the best technology in the world but if you still don't understand what today's threats are, you're a risk. The second area would be around what I would call pre-sales professional services such as assessment work. So the cyber threat assessment program that Fortinet has. So we're authorized to go and help our partners do that. We've done it in conjunction with partners. We have partners on the phone all the time, we'll set them on a demo, we'll help them get that CTAP done. And once that thing is in, it's closing a sale. So you can really drive demand. You have a better understanding of what's going on in the network. And that's all before we've even delivered a product, right? So then you kind of get into the core of what I would call channel enablement and operations. Which is, look yes we have to help our partners get the technology, but it's also around, we're serving more Fortinet resellers than any other company in any country from a distribution standpoint. I'm really proud of that. But they're all varying degrees of competency and so we have to act as though we're their Fortinet channel account manager. And so we love doing that type of work. The next part of that sale cycle would be around how do we finance that? So there's a multitude of financial services offerings. Or leading with Fortinet's MSSP program to help close an opportunity in the invariable financial models. And then it's around implementation. A lot of partners may find an opportunity and they can't get to Las Cruces, New Mexico. Well they can tap into our network and we'll help them find a provider that can do that implementation service. And then wrapping it up with remote monitoring and management or managed services of those things. And now, Fortinet plays a role in many of those categories. So we would lead with those solutions to make sure that a security advisor is really taking advantage of offerings throughout the sale cycle. Whether Fortinet offers them or whether we're working with a third party provider. >> So you mentioned that you are the largest distributor working with Fortinet Technologies. You also mentioned something earlier too that's interesting and that is, kind of leading into differentiation. You talked about Fortinet being able to go from the antiphrase down to the SMB and the fact that what we're hearing so much media about enterprise attacks that's what gets attention. >> Right. >> Talk to us about the differentiation that Ingram Micro is getting as a result of partnering in such a focused way with a Fortinet that is able to get into and help those small, medium businesses not go out of business. >> Right. And Fortinet's in a great spot because they've been serving from the SMB to the mid markets and the enterprise. And to your point, yes, the Sony's and the Yahoo's they make all the headlines. Companies like 80stees.com that got attacked and almost when out of business they don't make the news. And so we play an integral role because we're serving thousands of resellers that actually are working with those small companies. So we have to help them understand the technology, understand the new like there's announcements today. You know, we have to help get that message out to the Fortinet channel and really help augment their channel efforts with that. >> As think out over the next couple of years given that it is the movement from a product to a service orientation in many respects requires that much more data. The visibility that makes you that much more intimately tied to your partners, what will be the role as a business person, what will be the role of data, data security, more secure networks to you as business person? >> As a business person this is just going to keep accelerating. The demand for information isn't going to slow down. The demand over the networks, it's just going to keep expanding as quickly as are the devices in our hands. It's one human has a device or one device for every human on the planet today that's going to double or triple in the next few years. That demand for data and data protection is going to go right along with it. >> Lisa: One last question for you, Eric. One of the things that was interesting today was a lot of the predictions that we were learning from Fortinet. We had Derek Manky on the program and he did a blog, his team did, leads Fortiguard Labs about really six predominant evolutions and challenges and it was quite striking. I'm curious your perspective as we're seeing this threat surface expand. One of the things that he was talking about was the need to bridge the gap between public sector and private sector and what Fortinet is doing there to facilitate things where they don't have jurisdiction that maybe a police organization would need to be involved in. As we look at Fortinet going in that direction in helping to bridge the gap there and share knowledge and threat intelligence across public and private sector and to your point earlier helping the SMB market which doesn't get that visibility. Last question, what are you most excited about? Fortinet's just starting their fiscal year 17. What excites you most as a distributor for this year of opportunities? >> I would say it's a couple things. They had an exciting announcement today around their intent based and that's really exciting. To be able to drive simplicity and to management and being able to understand what's going on. Our partners and ultimately the clients, they don't want point products. There's a lot of security vendors that are offering point products. These customers want business outcomes and they want simplicity. It's really easy to be a cyber criminal today. Ransomware's a service. You can go out and start flooding emails out and then all the sudden you rent the malware and you'll get paid if you can infect somebody and they have to go pay for it. Protecting against that has to be as simple as it is to be a cyber criminal. I think that it's exciting with what they're doing there. In terms of this event, and Derek is a great leader in security. He was out at our big event in November so I was catching up with folks like him. I love these events to come and check in with our partners and we've been a Fortinet distributor, this will be our 10 year anniversary and we're also a customer. It's exciting for me to come in and see our friends and familiar faces and catch up with everybody and see what's new. We're really excited about the future with Fortinet. In those 10 years, we've been above market growth every year. Don't tell my boss, he assigns quotas. But they've been a great partner for us. >> It sounds like from what we've heard today from yourself and from your partners at Fortinet, this year presents a tremendous amount of opporunity and challenge. We wish you continued success, Eric. Thank you so much for your time on theCUBE. >> Thank you very much. >> We thank you for watching theCUBE as well. And I'll thank you on behalf of my esteemed colleague, Peter Burris. But, don't go away, we'll be right back.

>>From Miami beach, Florida. It's the cube covering a Cronus global cyber summit 2019. Brought to you by Acronis. >>So Ron, welcome back to the keeps coverage of kronas cyber global cyber summit 2019. I'm John furrier here in Miami beach. Our next guest is Pat Hurley, vice president, general manager of the Americas in sales and customer relationships. Get Debbie Juan. Hey, thanks for having me. Welcome to Miami beach. Lovely place to have an event. So I hear ya. You got a lot of competition going on between the U S America's in the AMIA teens and it's very competitive group. >> The European team is very confident. I think we'll show them tomorrow what we're made of. We've been recruited very hard for some players that are Latin American. I think we'll show them a finger too. You've got a big soccer story there. We do. Yeah. We've, uh, we've got a few sports partnerships that we have across the globe. Uh, some of the first partnerships we had were actually within formula one. >>And we really try to correlate the story of the importance of, uh, data protection and cyber protection in the sporting industry because a lot of people don't think about the amount of data that's actually being generated in the space. A formula one car generates between, you know, two and three terabyte through three gigabytes of data on every lap, tons of telemetry devices that are kicked, collecting information from the car, from the road service, from the, the general environment. They're taking that data and then sending it back to the headquarter, analyzing it and making very small improvements to the car to make sure that they can qualify faster, run a faster lap, make the right type of angle into a turn, uh, which can really differentiate them from being, you know, first, second, third, 10th in a qualifying session. On the soccer side. We do have some partnerships with uh, arsenal, Manchester city, inter Milan, and we just signed a partnership as well with Liverpool. >>So we are very popping in that space here in the U S we have some other sports that we're big fans of. I'm personally a big Boston red Sox fan, being a Boston native and we do have a sports partnership with the red Sox, which has been an unbelievable partnership with them. And learning more about the use cases that they solve and using our technology has been really cool. >> You know, Patty, you bring up the sports thing and we were kidding before we on camera around the trading, you know how people do sports deals and they trade, you know, merchandise for consumer benefit or customer benefits. But really what is happening is sports teams encapsulate really the digital transformation in a nutshell because most sports franchises are, have been traditionally behind. But now with the consumerization of it and digital can go back to 2007 since the mobile phone. >>Really, I mean it's iPhone. Yeah. Since that time, sports and capsulates every aspect of it, consumer business fan experience. And it really has every, every, almost every element of what we see now as a global IOT problem opportunity. So it really encapsulates the use case of an integrated and and needed solution. Oh yeah, absolutely. I mean, if you think about the amount of data that's, that's out there today and the fast way that it's growing, you know, the explosion of, uh, of data in the, in the world today, sports have different unique challenges. So obviously they have large fan bases that need to be able to access the data and understand what's going on with their favorite sports teams. Um, for us it's really, you know, these technology partnerships that we have with these guys, it runs through all these different areas of, you know, in many cases we didn't really understand that they were using it for. >>So, you know, the red Sox for example, they've got Fenway park and iconic stadium, you know, the Mecca of baseball. If you haven't been there yet, I suggest all your viewers that they go and check it out, give me a call, we'll try and get you set up there. But, um, you know, the, the, the experience that the fans have there is all around their data experienced there. Right? And it's not just baseball games. It could be hockey games that Fenway park, it could be a concert that they're having. A phone buys a lot of different events. These stadiums are open year round and the ability to move, share access, protect the data in that stadium is really important to how they're functioning as an organization. We talked to their I-Team quite regularly about how they're using our solutions. They're talking about uh, different aspects of artificial intelligence, different ways they can use our products and machine learning. >>Obviously with the new solutions that we have in the market today around cybersecurity or helping them to address other challenges that they face. Um, as an organization, these are realtime challenges in their physical locations, national security issues, terrorist attacks could happen. There are venues, there are public gathering places too. Absolutely. We announced our partnership with them back in may and I was shocked to hear them on the main stage announcing that they had this great partnership with the Kronos was talking about their unique cyber security needs. They started talking about drone technology and I'm thinking, all right, a drone flies in the stadium. Maybe at breaks and it falls on a player and we're paying $20 million for one of these pitchers to be out there on the Hill or an interest, a fan or maybe they're collecting some video data to then share it out. >>And that's red Sox IP. No, they're talking about cybersecurity threats in the sense that a drone, a remotely controlled device could come in and lightened incendiary device in the, in the stadium and that to them as a real security server. And that's frontline for the it guys. That's what keeps them up at night. Yeah. And that's really an attack take time. Oh yeah, absolutely. What are the use cases that are coming out of some of your customers, cause you guys have a unique integrated solution with a platform as an end to end component too. You have a holistic view on data, which is interesting and unique. People are kind of figuring this out, but you guys are ahead of the game. What are some of the use cases that you've seen in the field with customers that highlight the benefits of taking a holistic view of the data? >>Yeah, absolutely. So we look at it as kind of backups dead, right? We have, we've combined the old world of backup and disaster recovery with the new world of cybersecurity and we combine that to a term we're calling cyber protection because it really requires an end to end solution and a lot of different things need to be working properly to prevent these attacks from happening. Uh, you need to be very proactive in how you're going about that. We address it with what we call 'em, the Kronos cyber platform. And what this is, is a unique, multi-tiered multi-tenant offering that's designed specifically for service providers. We have just under 6,000 servers, providers actively selling our cyber protection solutions today and they use this for are for a multiple different aspects. And usually the beachhead has something like backup. Every company needs backup. It's more of a commodity type solutions, a lot of different players in the game out there, but they take it a step further, use that same backup technology to then do disaster recovery. >>They can do files, they can share, they can do monitoring. We have notary solutions based on blockchain technologies. Now, this whole suite of cybersecurity solutions, all of this is with a single pane of glass, one platform that of a service provider can go in and work with their customers and make sure that their data is protected, make sure that their physical machines are virtual machines, they're PCs, their Macs are all protected, that data's protected, it's secure, but it's also accessible, which is an important part of you can take your data wrapping a nice bow buried a hundred feet underground, but then you can't use it, right? So you want to be able to make sure that you can actually, uh, leverage the technology there. Um, we've seen explosive growth, especially in, in my market. I think the numbers are pretty crazy. It's something like 90% of the market today in the U S has served in some capacity by a service provider. >>And this could be a small to medium size business that's served by local service fire to those really big guys that are out there. Let's on with how large your target audience, you mentioned search probably multiple times when you're out selling your target persona, your target audience, and you're trying to reach into, so we touch, everybody know, you equate it to kind of what we do with the red Sox, right? You walk into that city and the 38,000 people that, well, some of those people are just, you know, regular Joe's, right? They, they go to work every day. They have a computer at home, they have a mobile device. They probably have multiple mobile devices. We protect that for them. We call them a consumer. Slash. Prosumers. We work at a lot of very large retail organizations. If you walk into some of those shops today, you'll be able to see our software on a shelf there. >>You work with one of those tech squads where they're starting to attach services to it and you get more of a complete offering there. We then scale up a little bit further to some OEM providers. You work with companies like Honeywell and Emerson that are manufacturing devices that embed our software on there. They white label it and deliver it out. These are connected devices. You think about the, you know the, the explosion of IOT devices in the market today. We're protecting that stuff as well. We work with very large enterprises, so some of the, the major players that you see in the manufacturing space are standing up standardizing on Acronis process control process automation vendors are using our Chronis and we can deliver the solution because of the way it's so flexible in a very consumable way for them. Those enterprises can actually act as a service provider for their employees so we can actually take our technology, deploy the layer in their infrastructure where they have complete control. >>They might not want to be in an Uber cloud, they might not want to work with Chrome OS data center. They want to have and hold that data. They want to make sure it's on site. We enable that type of functionality and then the fastest growing area for us is what I hit on earlier within the service provider community. We're recruiting hundreds of service providers every quarter. We've got some great partners here. Give you an example of a service provider. You mentioned the red size, I'm assuming is that a vendor that might be working within that organization, but still it sounds like that's a supplier to the red Sox. How, how broad is that definition? It gives us many points. Yeah, it's a really good point. So we work with hosting providers. Look, can be regional hosting providers to multinational hosting providers. Some of the very big names that you've, you're probably familiar with. >>We work with, uh, we work with, uh, telco providers who work with ISV providers or sorry, ISP providers, um, kind of regional telco providers that provide a myriad of different services all the way down to your kind of local mom and pop type service providers where you've got a small business, maybe they've got 30 to 50 employees, they're servicing probably 200 to 300 customers and they want to provide a very secure, safe, easy to use complete solution to their customers. Uh, those could be focused on certain verticals so they could be focused on healthcare, financial services, construction, et cetera. Um, we have some that are very niche within like dental services or chiropractice offices, small regional doctor's offices. Uh, and the, the beauty of that, and I was getting the partners earlier, is we have partnerships with companies like ConnectWise where those are tools that service providers are using on a very daily basis. >>So essentially the platform gives you that range and that's the typical typical platform. So you have that broad horizontally scalable capability and the domain expertise either be what solution from you guys or can ISV or someone within your ecosystem is that they get that. Right? Absolutely. And that's what really differentiates us is our ability to integrate into that plat, into our platform, into their platform and make those connections. So you don't need to learn 12, 14, 15 different technologies. You've got a small suite of offerings in a single pane of glass, very easy to use, very intuitive. Um, the integrations that we have with these partners like ConnectWise, like Ingram micro, really differentiate us because what they do is they provide open API capabilities. They provide software development kits where these partners can go ahead and build it the way they want to sell it. >>You know, it's interesting when the cloud came out and as on premise has changed to a much more agile dev ops kind of mindset that forced it to think like a service provider. I think like an operating system, it's an operating environment basically. So that service provides an interesting angle and I want to get your thoughts on this because I think this is where you guys have such a unique opportunity to just integrate solution because you could get into anything and you got ISV to back that up. So I guess the question I would have is for that enterprise that's out there that's looking to refactor and replatform their entire operation, or it could be a large enterprise, it has a huge IOT opportunity or challenge or a service provider is looking at having a solution. What's the pitch that you would give me if I'm the one of those customers? >>Say, Hey Pat, what's the pitch? So you need a, you need a trusted provider that's been in the business for a number of years that understands the data protection and security markets that Kronos has that brand. We've been doing this for about 16 years. We were founded in Singapore, we're headquartered out of Switzerland and we've got a lot of really smart guys in the back room. Was building good technologies that our partners were able to use. Um, we look at it a lot of different ways. I mentioned our go to market across a lot of different verticals and a lot of different um, kind of routes for those. The way we deliver our solution. It provides the flexibility for an enterprise to a classic reseller to um, you know, a VAR or a service, right? It's delivering services. It can be delivered to those guys how they want to consume it. >>So as an example, we may work with a smaller service provider that doesn't have any colo capabilities. We provide data centers so they could have a very quick turnkey solution, allows them to get up and running with their business, selling backup within minutes to their customers. We can also work with very large enterprises where we can deliver the complete platform to them and then they have complete control over it. We sprinkle in some professional services to make sure that we're giving them the support that they need and then they're running the service for themselves. What we've really seen in terms of a trend is that a lot of these VARs, we have about 4,500 of them in North America and they're starting to look at their businesses differently. Say, I gotta adapt or die here. I gotta figure out what my next business model is. >>How am I going to be the next one that's in the news flash that says, Hey, they've been acquired, or Hey Thoma Bravo made a big investment in me. Right? They need to convert to this services business or Kronos enables that transformation to happen. I mean, I can see you guys really making money for channel partners because they want solutions. They want to touch the customer, they want to maybe add something they could bring into it or have high service gross profits around services. Absolutely. So, yeah, our solution is unique in the sense that allows partners to sell multiple offerings to, you're getting an additional layer of stickiness providing multiple solutions to a customer. You're using the same technology, so your it team is very familiar with what they're using on a daily basis. Um, you're reducing the amount of churn for your customers because you're selling so much additional there that they're really stuck with you. >>That's a good thing. Uh, and beyond that, your increasing ARPU, average revenue per user is a key metric that all of our partners are looking at. And these guys are owner operators, right? They're business owners. They're looking at the bottom line. I mean, it's interesting the operating leverage around the consistent platform just lowers, it gives them software economic model. They can get more profit over time as they make that investment look at at the end of the day, channel partners care about a couple things, money, profit and customer happiness. Absolutely. And it helps to have them want to have a lot of one offs and a lot of, you know, training, you know, anything complicated, anything confusing, anything that requires a lot of resources, they're not going to like a, it's also great to have events like this where you're able to, to press the flesh with these guys and, and being face to face and understand their real world challenges that they're dealing with on a daily basis. >>How has the sport's a solution set that you've been involved in? How has that changed the culture of Acronis? Is that, has that, has that changed as, you know, sports is fun. People love sports, they have real problems. It's a really great use case as well. How's that change the culture? It's been amazing. I, so one from a branding perspective, we are a lot more recognized, right? Um, the most important thing about these partnerships for us is that they're actually using the technology. So, you know, we've got the red Sox here with us today. We've got arsenal represented, we've got Williams, we've got Roush racing, we've got a NASCAR car back here. Um, they use our technology on a daily basis and for each one of them we solve different types of use cases. Whether it's sending them large amount of video data from an essence studio over to Fenway park, or if it's a scout out in the field that needs to send information back and their laptop crashes, how do they recover? >>A lot of these different use cases, you can call them right back to a small business owner. You don't have to be a multibillion dollar sports organization with the same challenge. Well, I'm smiling because we've been called the ESPN of tech to they bring our set. We do let the game day thing. We certainly could love to come join you in all these marquee events that you have. We'd love to have it. Yeah, so if you follow us on social, we're out there and that, that's a big part of it. You mentioned one of ours looking for what our partners looking for. They want a personal relationship too. A lot of that goes away with technology nowadays and being able to really generate that type of a, of a personal relationship. These partnerships enable that to happen and they're very anything, I don't know anything about cars. >>We started partnering with formula one. All of a sudden I know everything about 41 I go to these races. I tell everybody I don't know anything about cars and I ended up being the, the subject matter export for him over over the weekend. So we'd love to have you guys join us. We'd love all of our partners. They get more engaged in the sports aspect of it because for us, it really is something that, um, again, they're using us in real life scenarios. We're not paying to put a sticker on a car that's going 300 miles. It's not traveling as a real partnership. Exactly. Pat, congratulations on your success and good luck on people owning away the numbers. Congratulations. Thank you very much. Just the cube coverage here at the Chronis global cyber summit 2019 I'm John furry. More coverage after this short break.