(upbeat music) >> Welcome to theCUBE and our Q3 AWS Startup Showcase. I'm Lisa Martin. I've got two guests here with me, Erez Berkner is back, the Co-Founder and CEO of Lumigo. Hey, Erez, good to see you. >> Hey, Lisa, great to be here again. >> And Kevin O'Neill, the CTO at Flex is here as well. Kevin, welcome. >> Hi, Lisa, nice to meet you. >> Likewise, we're going to give the audience an overview of Lumigo and Flex. Let's go ahead, Erez, and start with you. Talk to us about Lumigo, and I think you have a slide to pull up to walk us through? >> Yeah, I have a couple, so, great to be here again. And just as an overview, Lumigo is a serverless monitoring and debugging platform. Basically allowing the user, the developer to get an end-to-end view of every transaction in his cloud. It's basically distributed tracing that allows you from one hand to monitor, to see a visual representation of your transaction, but also allows you to drill down and debug the failure to get to the root cause. So essentially, once you have the visualization and if we'll move to the next slide, you can actually click and drill down and see all the relevant debug information like environment variables, duct rays, inputs, outputs, and so on and so forth. And by that, understanding the root cause. And sometimes those root causes of the problems are not just errors, they are latencies, they are hiccups. And for that, we can see on the next slide, where Lumigo allows you to see where do you spend your time? Where are the hiccups in your system? What's running in Paula to what in the same transaction, where you can optimize. And that's the essence of what Lumigo provides in a distributed environment and focusing on serverless. >> Got it, focusing on serverless, we'll dig into that in a second. Kevin, give us an overview of Flex. You're a customer of Lumigo? >> We are indeed. So Flex is a build smoothing platform. We help people pay their rent and other bills, in these times of uncertainty and cashflow, the first of the month for your rent, it's a big bill. Being able to split that up into multiple payments is a lot easier. And when we entered the market, you were looking at a place where people were using things like payday loans, which are just ridiculous, really hurting, hurt people in the longterm. So we want to come in with something that is a little more equitable, little fairer and help people who can well afford their rent. They just can't afford it on the first, right? And so we started with rent, and now we cover all the bills like utilities and things like that. >> What a great use case, and I can't even imagine, Kevin, in the last year and a half, how helpful that's been as the world has been so dynamic. So talk to me a little bit about what you were doing before Lumigo and we'll get into then why you went the serverless route. >> Right, so I came to Flex to help them out with some problems that we're having as our servers were scaling up. Obviously, when the business hit, it was really, it went from zero to 100 miles an hour so quickly. And so I came in to help sort out some of the growing issues. And so when I started looking at that, we were three developers and didn't want to spend time on ops, didn't want to spend time on all of the things that you have to do just to be in business, right? And it's really expensive in the technical space. If you get into something about Kubernetes or things like that, you spend a lot of time building that infrastructure, making sure, and that's really minimal value to your business. It's there for reliability, but it doesn't really focus in on the thing that is important to you. So we wanted to build something that minimized that, we talk about DevOps, we want it ops zero, right? So that's like DevOps is a really nice practice, but having people in that role, it seems like you're still doing ops, right? You still got people who are doing those things, and we want it to kind of eliminate that. So I had some experience with serverless before joining Flex. I thought we'll run up a few things and spike up a few things. When you come out of environments like Kubernetes or your more traditional AC to type infrastructure, you'd lose some things. And one of the big things you'd lose is platforms of visibility. So things like OpenTrace and Datadog, and things like that, that do these jobs of telling you what's going on in your infrastructure, you've got fairly complex infrastructure going on, lots of things happening. And so, we initially started with what was available on the platforms, right? So we started with your CloudWatch logs and New Relics, right? Which got us somewhere. But as soon as we started to get into more complex scenarios where we're talking across multiple hops, so through SQS and then through EventBridge and Dynamo, it was very difficult to be able to retrace a piece of information. And that's when we started looking around for solutions, we looked at big traditional pliers, the Datadogs, the New Relics and people like that. And then the serverless specific players, and we ended up landing on Lumigo, and I couldn't have been happier with the results, from day one, I was getting results. >> That's great, I want to talk about that too, especially as you say, we wanted to be able to focus on our core competencies and not spend time in resources that we didn't have in areas where we could actually outsource. So I want to go back to Erez, talk to me about some of the challenges that Kevin articulated, are those common across the board, across industries that Lumigo sees? >> Yeah, I think the main thing when we met Kevin main were about visibility and about ability to zoom out, see the bigger picture and when something actually fails or about to fail in production, being able to drill down to understand what happened, what is the root cause, and go ahead and fix it instead of going through different CloudWatch logs, and log groups and connecting the dots manually. And that's one of the most common challenges when enterprise, where software engineers are heading toward serverless, toward managed services. So, definitely we'll hear that it was many of our customers. >> So Kevin, talk about the infrastructure that you've set up with serverless and go through some of the main benefits that Flex is getting. >> Right, so look, the day one thing of course, is the number of people we need doing operations as we've grown is next to nothing, right? We are able to create in that, we all want this independence of execution, right? So as you scale, I think there's two ways really to scale a system, right? You can build a monolith and shot it, that works really, really well, right? You can just build something that just holds a ton of data and everything seems connected when you release it all in one place, or you build something that's a little more distributed and relies on asynchronous interactions effectively, like in everywhere but the edges, both of those things scale. The middle ground doesn't scale, right? That middle ground of synchronous systems talking to synchronous systems, at some point, your lightency is your sum of all the things you're talking to, right? So doing anything in a quick way is not possible. So when we started to look at things like, I'm sorry, so the other challenge is things like logging and understanding what's happening in your system. Logging is one of those things that you always don't have the thing logged that you're interested in, right? You put in whatever logging you like, but the thing you need will always be missing, which is why we've always taken a tracing approach, right? Why you want to use something like Lumigo or an OpenTrace, you don't sit there and say, "Hey, log this specifically," you log the information that's moving through the system. At that point, you can then look at what's happening specifically. So again, the biggest challenge for us is that we run 1500 landlords, right? We run 600 queues. There's a lot of information. We use an EventBridge, we use Dynamo, we use RDS, we've got information spread out. We moved stuff, but to third party vendors, we're talking out to say, two guys like Stripe and Co, and we're making calls out of those. And we want to understand when we've made those calls, what's the latency on those calls. And for a given interaction, it might touch 20 or 30 of those components. And so for us, the ability to say, "Hey, I want to know why this file to write down here." We need to actually look through everywhere, explain, and understand how it's complex, right? Where this piece of data that was wrong come from? And so, yeah, which is difficult in a distributed environment where your infrastructure is so much a part of somebody else's systems, you don't have direct access to assistance. You'd only got the side effects of the system. >> Right, so talk to me in that distributed environment, Kevin, how does Lumigo help to improve that? Especially as we're talking about payments and billing and sensitive financial information. >> Right, so in a couple of ways, the nice part about Lumigo is I really don't have to do much in order for it to just do its thing, right? This comes back to that philosophy of zero ops, right? Zero effort. I don't want to be concentrating on how I build my tracing infrastructure, right? I just want it to work. I want it to work out of the box when something happens, I want it to have happened. So Lumigo, when I looked at it, when I was looking at the platforms, the integration's so straightforward, the cost integration being straightforward is kind of useless, if it doesn't actually give you the information you want. And we had a challenge initially, which was, we use a lot of EventBridge, and of course, nothing tries to EventBridge until we got, I mentioned this to Erez and Co, and said, "Hey guys, we really need to try to EventBridge, and a little while later, we were tracing through EventBridge, which was fantastic. And because I would say 70% of our transactions evolve something that goes through EventBridge, the other thing there. We're also from an architectural standpoint, we're also what's known as an event source system. So we derive the state of the information from the things that have occurred rather than a current snapshot of what something looks like, right? So rather than you being Lisa with a particular phone number and particular email address stored in a database as a record, you are, Lisa changed the phone number, Lisa changed her email address. And then we take that sequence of things and create a current view of Lisa. So that also helps us with ordering, right? And at those lower levels, we can do a lot of our security. We can do a lot of our encryption, we can say that this particular piece of information, for example, a social security number is encrypted and never is available as plain text. And you need the keys to be able to unlock that particular piece of information. So we can do a lot of that, a lower level infrastructure, but that does generate a lot of movement of information. >> Right. >> And if you can't trace that movement of information, you're in a hurting place. >> So Erez, we just got a great testimonial from Kevin on how Lumigo's really fundamental to their environment and what they're able to deliver to customers, and also Kevin talked about, it sounds like some of the collaboration that went on to help get that EventBridge. Talk to me, Erez, about the collaborative partnership that you have with Flex. >> Yeah, so I think that it's more of a, I would say a philosophy of customers, the users come first. So this is what we're really trying to about. We always try to make sure there's an open communication with all of our customers and for us customer is a key and user's a key, not even a customer. And this is why we try to accommodate the different requests, specifically on this event, this was actually a while after AWS released the service and due to the partnership that we have with AWS, we were able to get this supported relatively fast and first to market supporting EventBridge, and connecting the dots around it. So that's one of the things that we really, really focused on. >> Kevin, back to you, how do you quantify the ROI of what Lumigo is delivering to Flex? >> That's a really good question. And Erez, and I've talked about this a few times, because the simple fact is if I add up the numbers, it costs me more to trace than it does to execute. But if I look at the slightly bigger picture, I also don't have op stuff, right? And I also have an ability to look at things very quickly. The service cost is nothing compared to what I would need if I was running my own tracing through OpenTrace with my own database, monitor the staff to support those things. But the management of those things, the configuration of those things, the multiple touchpoints I'd need for those things, they're not the simple thing. So, if you look at a raw cost, you go, oh man, that part is actually more than my execution costs at least certainly in the early days, but when I look at the entire cost of what it takes to watch manage and trace a system, it's a really easy song, right? And a lot of these things don't pay off until something goes wrong. Now we're heavy users of EventBridge. EventBridge has had two incidents in USA in the last six months, right? And we were able to say through our traffic, that was going through EventBridge, that the slowdown was occurring in EventBridge. In fact, we were saying that before was alerted in the IDR VUS dashboards, to say, "Hey, EventBridge is having problems," like we watch all their alerts, but we were saying an hour before leading into Titus saying, "Hey, there's something going wrong here." Right? Because we were seeing delays in the system. So things like that give you an opportunity to adjust, right? You can't do it. You're not going to be able to get everything off of EventBridge for that period. But at least I can talk to the business and say, "Hey, we're having an impact here, and this is what's going on. We don't think it's our systems, we think it's actually something external. We can see the tries, we see it going in, we see it coming out, it's a 20 minute delay." >> There's a huge amount of value in that, sorry, Kevin, in that visibility alone, as you said, and even maybe even some cost avoidance is there, if you're seeing something going wrong, you maybe can pivot and adjust as needed. But without that visibility, you don't have that. There's a lot of potential loss. >> Yeah, and it's one of those things that doesn't pay for itself until it pays for itself, right? It's like insurance, you don't need insurance until you need insurance. These sort of things, people look at these things and go, "Ah, what am I getting it from day to day?" And day to day, I'll use Lumigo, right? When I'm developing now, Lumigo is part of my development process, in that, I use it to make sure the information is flowing in the way I expect it to, right? Which wasn't what I expected to be able to do with it, right? It wasn't even a plan or anything I intended to use it for, but day to day now, when I buy something off, one of the checks I go through when I'm debugging or when I'm looking at a problem, especially distributed problem is what went through Lumigo. What happened here, here and here, and why did that happen in response to this? So, these things are, again, it's that insurance thing, you don't need it until you need it, and when you need it, you're so glad you've got it. >> Right, exactly. >> Actually it's already said, I have a question because, yeah, I think that it's clear on that part. And how did this, if it change the developer work in Flex, do you feel different on that part? >> I think it's down to individual developers, how they use the different tools, just like individual developers use different tools. I tend to, and a couple of people that I work closely with tend to use these tools in this way, probably where the more advanced users of serverless in general inside the organization. So we were more aware of these weird little things that occur and justly double-checks you want to do. But I feel like when I don't have something like Lumigo in place, it's very hard for me to understand, did everything happen? I can write my acceptance tests, but I want to make sure that, testing is a really fun art, right? And it's picking my cabinets nice and easy, and you can run all these formulas to do things, it's just not right, and there's just too many, especially in distributed space, too many cases where things look odd, things look strange, you've got weird edge cases. We get new timeouts in Dynamo. We hit the 100,000 limit in fresh hall on Dynamo, right? In production, that was really interesting because it meant we needed to do some additional things. >> Lisa: Kevin, oh, go ahead. >> Go ahead, no, go ahead, Lisa. >> I was just going to ask you, I'd love to get your perspective. It sounds like, you look at other technologies, there's been some clear benefits and differentiators that you saw, which is why you chose Lumigo, but it also sounds like there were some things that surprised you. So in your opinion, what are some of the key differentiators of Lumigo versus its competitors? >> So I guess I've been a partner with Lumigo for like eight months now, right? Which is a long time in the history of Flex, right? 'Cause we're just out of two and a half years old. So, when I did the initial evaluation, I was looking for the things. I'm lazy, so I wanted something that I could just drop in and it would just work, right? And get the information I wanted to ask. I wanted something that was giving me information consistently. So I try to figure these things out and hit them with some load. I wanted it to have coverage of the assistance that we use. We use Dynamo a lot. We use Lambros a lot, and I want it not just cursory coverage, how it's just another one of the 20,000 things that they do, I wanted something that was dedicated to it. That gave me information that was useful for me. And really the specialist serverless providers were the obvious choice there. When you looked at the more general providers, the Datadogs and New Relics, I think if you're in an environment that has a lot of other different types of systems running on, then maybe the specificity that you'd lose is worthwhile, right? There's trade off you can make, but we're in a highly serverless environment, so one of the specificity. When I looked at the vendors, Lumigo was the one that worked best straight out of the box for me, it gave me the information I wanted. It gave me the experience I wanted, and to be frank, they've reached out really quickly and had a chat about what were my specific problems, what I was thinking. And all of those things add up, a proactive vendor, just doing the things you wanted to do, and what became and has become a lasting partnership, and I don't say partnership lightly 'cause we've worked with a number of other vendors, right? For different things. But Lumigo, I have turned to these guys, 'cause these guys know serverless, right? So I've turned to these guys when I've gone, "Look, I am not sure what the best approach here is." You have trusted me about it, this is vendor, right? >> Right, but it sounds like it's very synergistic, collaborative trusted relationship. And to your point, not using the term partner lightly, I think arises, probably couldn't have been a better testimonial for Lumigo, its capabilities, and what you guys are able to do. So I'll give you, Erez the last word, just give the audience a little bit of an overview of the AWS partnership. >> Sure, so AWS has been a very strategic partner for Lumigo, and that means that, I would say the most critical part is a product, is a technology. And we are design partners with the serverless team. And that means that we work with AWS to make sure that before new services are released, they get our feedback on whether we can integrate easily or not, and making sure that on the launch date, we are able to be a launch partner for a lot of their services. And this strong partnership with R&D team is what's allowing Lumigo to support new services out of the box like Kevin mentioned. >> Excellent, gentlemen, thank you so much for joining me today, talking about, not just about Lumigo, but getting this great perspective of it through the CTO lens with Kevin, we appreciate your insights, your time, and what a great testimonial. >> Thank you very much, thank you, Kevin. >> Thanks, Lisa, thanks Erez. >> You're most welcome. For Erez Berkner and Kevin O'Neill, I'm Lisa Martin, you're watching the AWS Startup Showcase for Q3. (gentle music)

>>Hello, I'm CR howdy shell president at advisors, uh, excited to be participating in GreenLake day Han joined by valued long-term 15 year customer Srini Vanga he's vice president information technology at wr grace and company Srini. Thanks for joining me today, especially in light of the $570 million acquisition completed yesterday. Congratulations on that. And can you tell us a little bit about yourself, your organization, and a bit about the relationship you've had with advising? >>Sure. Uh, thank you, Sierra, let me start with grace. Grace is a $2 billion global specialty chemical manufacturing company. It's got two main business segments, catalyst technologies and materials technologies. Our FCC catalyst technologies help our petrochemical refining customers in producing, uh, mainly transportation fuel and petrochemical feedstock. So, and our materials technology business delivers silica based materials to our customers to improve their products and processes in, uh, segments like coatings, uh, consumer industrial and, uh, pharma businesses. Um, as a CRE, as you just mentioned, uh, we recently closed it in acquisition and acquired the fine chemicals business of, uh, Alvamar, which will increase our business share of a pharma business. So coming back to me, um, uh, regarding myself, I've been with the grays for 22 years. It's been a long time guys. So I I've been mainly in the SAP technology area and took over the role of the, uh, Weiss president and head of it for years back. Um, and I've been working with the advisors for almost 15 years now, and it's been an excellent strategic partnerships. >>Well, thank you. And we definitely appreciate the business and, uh, the relationship. So, uh, we'll, we'll move on to the next question. So what are, what are the most important factors for you to be successful in the business? Obviously, growth is going to be key with what you just, just accomplished with the acquisition, but, uh, one of the most important factors for you to be successful >>Since, uh, since grace is a specialty chemical manufacturing company, uh, it's very important for us to understand and, uh, sometimes even anticipate, uh, uh, exact customer requirements and then, uh, quickly create that a special material which helps improve our customer's products and processes. That's the most important thing for us. Um, the company depends on me and my team, uh, to provide value to our business and, uh, helping them make decisions quicker and in real time and, uh, adaptable, uh, to the ever changing market, the business niche this year. So that's the most important factor. >>Great. It is obviously playing a, a bigger role as, as you mean. Good. So what are some of the most, I don't like to use the word pain points, but I'll call them business challenges, you know, in your industry. >>Um, so building on my previous point, right? So chemical manufacturing is not new and it has a wall or the years and, and with numerous mergers and acquisitions along the way, uh, the systems and processes are not always, uh, harmonized are standardized. So keeping it moving together and in the same direction has, uh, has always been a challenge, right? And, and added to that COVID has affected most of the sector. And, uh, and our under our industry is no exception, especially in the refining sector. Uh, we need to be able to provide, uh, rapid customization to our customers, uh, which means our business, uh, which needs a flexible computing power, uh, to process and analyze huge amounts of these, the material properties data, and, and allow them to come up with products, uh, back to, we can go to market faster than our competitors. Yeah. >>Right. Got it. And obviously that's key, you touched on this briefly, but I'd really like to hear more about how your business has changed in the last year. You mentioned COVID so love to hear how things have changed and what you can share >>So specifically about COVID right. So about 50% of our employees have been working remotely since March of last year. Um, unless unlike other industries, uh, we cannot go a hundred percent remote, uh, because we have chemical plants to run and chemical labs to operate. So we'll always be at this 50%. So technology has enabled us to do that. We have done a lot of things remotely, which we never thought possible. Um, um, we did work two on factory visits for our pharma customers, our remote plant startup for our poly properly in, uh, uh, customers. Um, and also did virtual, um, annual customer conferences. Uh, in the end, some of this will go back to pre COVID days, but most of this is going to stay and stay here for good. >>Well, congratulations on that, because I think the whole working remote, I think we're all seeing the challenges, but obviously it looks like you've seized the challenge and it's going to be more of a business as usual going forward. Yeah. Well, congratulations. That's key obviously to the business also going forward and with that, with a hybrid model, I mean, many customers, the hybrid clouds with journey, will you share with us at wr grace and company journey for the hybrid cloud? >>Sure. So, yeah. Um, when I took over this role, uh, four years back, uh, I made a decision that I no longer want to be in this data center business. Uh, we need to focus on our core strength and core competencies as a chemical company. And, uh, I wanted it to be spending more time helping our, our business, uh, manufactured and sell our products safely and efficiently. So working with our strategic partner, uh, advisors and HPE, we moved ahead with, uh, with GreenLake, which just solved mainly my problem of this, uh, getting out of the data center business. Uh, we now have a private on-prem cloud solution that is elastic fully scalable and is, uh, based on the consumption model based model, right? So that's very similar to what these hyperscale cloud providers have. And I love it. This, the consumption based model is what, what is great about the GreenLake that I have signed up, um, with, with GreenLake, I can, uh, scale up quickly and I will, I can grow as my business needs grow. And, um, it makes, it makes this a perfect cloud solution for grace. >>That's great to hear it, especially since we are a big part of, and I'd have to agree, you know, with, with the words, getting out of the data center business, we're hearing it more and more as we, as we hear meet with more customers. So, and with that in a hybrid model, there are a lot of decisions to be made on what goes into public cloud. What should, what should remain on prem. And obviously this is a decision you had to make. This can be crucial when it comes down to business critical applications. How did you and your team approached this when you were looking at, at your SAP environment? >>Great question to CR, but for me, the answer is simple. Uh, as I told you previously, like I did not want to be in the business of data center. I also did not want to be in the business of developing custom applications. We retired most of our custom built applications in, uh, procurement sales, HR, and replaced them with the SAS providers like Ariba conquer Salesforce and success factors, which are all hosted in the cloud. Uh, these companies, uh, spend billions of dollars in R and D and come up with solutions that are state of the art in this, uh, in these processes that I talked to you about. Right? So, so unless I have a special need, which I don't in the finance procurement and HR, I don't need this custom built applications, which is the reason I went to these SAS based applications. All of which are hosted in the cloud. >>That leaves me with, uh, my mission critical application, which is SAP and there's peripherals, right. For business reasons. I wanted this on-prem. Um, so I chose the HPE GreenLake, uh, to host this on-prem in my own data center at, at our headquarters in Columbia, Maryland, but with the Dr. Capability in the cloud. Um, so that I don't have to have a colo facility, which I have right now from IDR. So I use both on-prem and cloud hybrid cloud for myself, uh, for, for grace. So I have very few custom built applications on prem. Um, and as these become more standardized, I certainly look at taking them to the cloud or even keeping them on prem. Um, so we wanted that inherent flexibility. So yeah, that's the reason we went to this model. >>That's great. Cause that leads in right into the next question I had for you many customers in this past year, they're all looking for the flexibility, right. And how important it is. Can you share with us the value you see from HPE GreenLake and, and how that provided flexibility for wr grace and company specifically to workloads that can easily scale up or down? >>The main thing that helped me make the decision for GreenLake is the GreenLake is sized with this 20% buffer that we can scale to in minutes, um, that would usually take a weeks or even months to deploy. We know how that power and the flexibility in mere minutes, uh, when not when our business comes to us with a new requirement, either for a new applications or new data analytics capability that needs computing power, I don't have to wait for two or three months to give them that capability. So I, it can be done right away with this 20% of flexibility. >>That's great. And agreed. So this is a newer question with, with the event of your, um, acquisition, how do you see that added flexibility when you're looking to integrate a new company, >>This, this is an exact, you, you hit it on the head, uh, CR that's true. If I were to, if I had to bring this on with this additional computing power, I would have had to place an order, wait for the codes, come back and do all that with this 30%, I can easily fit in a new acquisition. >>Well, that's great. And that, that, that really helps for the short and long run. I'm sure that helps the business. Yes. So last two questions really is. Can you talk about what really stood out for advisors with advice, et cetera, about advisors, you know, basically why advise X and what will you saw the benefit of working with us >>Advisor? you have a great team CR so, so I've been, I've been, I mean, I've been working with, I told you write for 15 years and, um, I've been working with the same account manager for most of these years and the team as well. Right? So, so the account manager and the team knows how I, and what I expect of the team, right. So I can call them 24, seven anytime day or night. And they, they always pick up my phone and assist me in that time of the need. That's the most important thing. That's the reason that I I've been working with adviser, extended advice, Excel always proposed good solutions to me, either with HP or with other vendors, I can always trust them. Um, we have developed a strong strategic relationship. And, um, more importantly, like I told you that there is this trust that is difficult to find, and, um, it has continued to endure. Um, and, um, I deal with a lot of it vendors and I can confidently say that advisors X is at the top of the list from the customer service perspectives here. >>Well, thank you. And listen, that means a lot. I know we've had some bumps, we, and I've been on the phone for some, some of the tougher times, but, you know, you get through those to the, to the good times like now, and, uh, really, really excited about what we're doing with GreenLake. So, and, and most importantly, appreciate that relationship. And I'm sure our on Akuna is going to love the fact that you mentioned the relationship. So thank you for that. You know, finally, you know, any, any parting words of wisdom, brother, customers, as they consider HPE GreenLake, >>Um, like a standard earlier, uh, you must ask yourself, do you really want to be in this data center business, uh, ask yourself what your core businesses and what your core competencies are and focus your business acumen to deliver those that value to your business. Um, I'm sure he will come to the same conclusion as we did, um, and take a good look at GreenLake fund itself, flexibility. Um, you be very pleased and happy with the value the solution provides to your business. >>I would have to agree and what we're seeing with the best of breed solutions you can bring forward with GreenLake. Uh, we're excited about it too. And look forward to doing more work with you and customers like wr grace and company. I just want to say thank you for the time as importantly, thank you for the business. Really do appreciate it and appreciate the, uh, the kind words. Thanks, and, uh, have a great day. >>Thank you. See ya.