>> Voiceover: Live from San Francisco, it's theCUBE covering Samsung Developer's Conference 2017, brought you by Samsung. (electronic music) >> Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Cube's exclusive coverage of the Samsung Developer Conference, here in San Francisco at Moscone West. I'm John Furrier, co-founder of SiliconANGLE media, co-host of theCUBE. I'm here with Gregarious Narain, who's the co-founder of Before Alpha, an old friend of mine who introduced me to pod-casting back in 2004, right when the MP3 was put into the RSS feed. The early days of blogging, the early days of social. You're one of the most prolific social engineers I know. You've been there from day one. Great to see you. >> Yeah, you too, man. Long time. >> What a wave it's been. >> I know. >> Web 2.0, you were at the front end of creating with-- >> Fortunately they didn't make a 3.0. [Both Chuckle] >> Thank God, because Web 2.0 bursted. But those were the days, I mean, just think back, okay, Web 1.0 post-bubble burst, Web 2.0 you were part of a crew of folks. We were all small community at the time, really kind of rubbing nickels together trying to make things happen. You know, back then TechCrunch was formed, PodTech was formed, you had your venture going on, and we all were, before social media existed, we were doing stuff. Scoble was brought down from Microsoft with my start-up, PodTech. But, we were all kind of trying to figure out this new infrastructure. And then the bubbling burst a little bit, but it ended up turning out to be true that social infrastructure was created. Facepost we saw pre-Facebook was obsolete; MySpace. But the social graph, okay, that extended out from RSS with enabled blogging created some great innovations. We're seeing the value of interest graphs develop. >> Yeah. >> And a term that I coined, called the Value-Graph is now extending on top of the interest graph. Some term that we call in theCUBE which is a new form of collaboration is happening. You're riding this new wave, you've got your new firm. You're leading companies through transformation. What's your take of the Samsungs of the world, Apple, Amazon, Microsoft, Google. You got a lot of these old tech guards. >> Yeah. >> Trying to be consumer companies and infrastructure companies, B-to-B means B-to-C. But B-to-B is 'boring to boring'. >> Yeah. >> We don't want B-to-B anymore, we want the new. >> Gregarious: That's right. >> Everything to everything. >> Gregarious: Yeah. >> Exciting to exciting. >> I think, you know, you nailed a lot of the points, I think, that are really interesting, because, you know, innovation is really about sort of like, blending cultural change and technological change together, right? And forming new things. And it usually is a succession of small iterations, And some moon shots, right? And I think like what Samsung's doing that's really interesting is that they bring all that stuff online in real time. Like, we don't wait, you know, ten years to hear about what the next innovation is. It's popping out before you even warm up your other phone, right? I think, you know, in the States, we're almost at a little bit of a disadvantage in seeing the breadth of Samsung, because like such of their footprint is actually significantly bigger. It's not nearly as adopted here, but I think as, you know, this, the theme today was the intelligence of things, really. I think it was a really powerful idea really. >> And they're onstage with Google, you see the relationship with Google, shining forward, I see a lot of big applause there, Google, also Android, not Apple, no iOS. >> Yeah, yeah. >> But this speaks to the consumer company of Samsung Hardware, even their IOT they are under the hood. >> Right. >> Geeky stuff, they put extra security modules in there, for device security, because now the hardware stacks are merging with software stacks. >> That's right, yeah. So, this is the challenge, because you know how hard it is to do database work. >> Yeah. >> We got a lot of unstructured data. >> Gregarious: Yeah. >> Data is now a real-time dynamic, self-driving cars. You can't have latency less than nanoseconds. >> Gregarious: Yeah, that's right. >> And so, databases just don't cooperate that way. >> Gregarious: Yeah. >> So a new architecture is being developed. What's your vision and thoughts about how companies are re-imagining? What are you seeing out there? I know it's early innings, but what are your thoughts? >> Well I think, you know, we went through this software as a service generation, right? Where, sort of software was at the center, right? Social was at the edge. Now the human is moving to the center, and I would say, with that, they're clutching to their devices, right? And so, there is a piece of hardware with every person basically, that's invoked. And I think hardware is becoming as extensible as software ultimately. And I think it is also being deconstructed, right? And I think a log of that Web 2.0 sort of aura was really the deconstruction, or the breakdown of sort of large monolithic services, down into smaller, discreet services that are addressable and serviceable. We're seeing that happen out on the hardware side as well. Things as really just micro-devices, you know, that embody all the pieces. >> If you look at the trend lines, right now we're kind of going back, but connecting the dots forward, there's a massive tsunami going on in opensource development. Linux Foundation was just down in L.A., talking about a exponential growth in new software shift, and a new class of developers coming in. Containerization in Cooper Netis' points to microservices, a whole other level of developer goodness at the top of the stack, freeing up the infrastructure configuration for the cloud, or 'dev ops' as we call it. >> Yeah. >> This is the phenomenon, this is the big wig. This isn't about developers being the guys writing, punching out code, this is front lines stuff. And certainly AR shows and devices from Samsung show. >> Well, and I think the interesting thing is that, with these hardware building blocks too, though, it's allowing software developers to articulate hardware without actually learning the hardware bits and pieces, right? So I think it's like, much idea obstraction, like, you don't have to know how byte code was generated now to work on the web, you sort of, don't necessarily know hardware is put together to be able to actually command an army of hardware pieces. >> How familiar with Samsung's cloud and data strategy, one of the things I see missing in the keynotes today, and clearly missing in the show, so this is kind of a critical analysis of Samsung, is I don't see a lot of the cloud. I see Smart Cloud, Samsung Cloud sprinkled around. I don't see a lot of cloud specifics. And they're not being specific around how the data is being used. >> Yeah. >> Like Alibaba there in China last week, data, data, data, refueling data, data acquisition, data usage, using data as a development tool, I'm not seeing that here. >> Well, I- >> Am I missing it, or...? >> I don't know, well I think at some of the pavilions around there are deeper dives in that, but I might argue that this is almost an intentional thing, right, like in some ways, because we're consumerizing more and more of these pieces. You know, AI scares the crap out of a lot of people. Right? Like and so do I really want to go deeper? >> You mean in a creepy way, or just like a surveillance way? >> I think all ways, right? Like, people are, you know, much like with personalization, you want to all wait until it's too good, right? And you know, I think this is a challenge. >> John: Like what else do they know about? >> Yeah, exactly, right? And so, how much of weeds are necessary? I think like at a developer-centric event like this, yes, like there definitely should be deeper dives, but likely not on that, I mean- >> So, from a messaging standpoint, probably best not to put data out there? It brings up questions. >> Yeah, all this stuff, this is Blendo, right? It all becomes consumer now, right? Like, so the more you put out there, the more you sort of alienate, potentially, adoption. >> So one of the things that we see, obviously, with theCUBE covers hundreds of events in the Enterprise and emerging tech area, but as we get more to the consumers with Samsung, Alibaba, Amazon, and so on, the consumerization trend is definitely here. That changes how businesses do business. IT, information technology, or called IT departments are no longer a department, it's now a fabric of how companies work because you have on-premise hardware, you buy your servers, but now you're operating on a cloud model. >> Yeah. >> You're using public Cloud with it; Microsoft, Amazon, Alibaba, Samsung, whatever, do people care, if it works? >> Yeah. >> So this new phenomenon is shaping how companies are architecting their innovation strategies. >> Yeah. >> You guys are doing a lot of this at your Before Alpha venture. >> Gregarious: Yeah. >> What are you guys doing, is it early days? Are you just basically like, crawl, walk, run stage? Give us an update on the customer. >> Yeah, we look at innovation from like four points of view. As I mentioned earlier, that technological versus cultural, and really, you know, it goes back to the hardest start-ups, right, it's like when large companies see start-ups, they're like, we love what these guys are doing, and the real question they should ask is, "why do these guys exist?" Right? And usually, it's like either one thing, right? Like our norms or our beliefs have changed on the cultural side, or there's a new model of efficacy, or efficiency that's possible, right, inside of your business. So, we will get a perspective change, like am I in the right business, right? Is Samsung in the hardware business, or are they in the intelligence business? Right, like sort of question their positing now, right? What's the persona then, if we're in the intelligence business, 'cause suddenly it's not just the people who buy hardware bits and pieces, it's all the people who consume intelligence. What are the processes we use to build that stuff, how do we surface it, and of course, what are the products? What are the things that land in people' hands? >> Yeah, and I think one of the things I would add to that, is that the element of how they use compute power, because we look at internet of things, which is a message here, it's not too sexy, mainstream doesn't get IOT, but AI can service itself, self-driving cars essentially, you know, machine learning meets IOT which you could call AI. People can grop that and understand the self-driving car, but, you know, airplane connected to the internet, or machines on a factory line, that brings up the role of the data, so the compute power is critical. You don't want to move data around the network, so it's interesting how companies will buy their compute. Do they rent it? Do they send it around like a virtual machine? >> Yeah. >> So these are like legacy infrastructure things that are really high impact to architecture. >> Yeah, well you know, and also when you think about you know, fractional compute, and the whole timeshare model for compute, it is also another area where you have to really readjust, and reconfigure the way your entire system works, to be able to take advantage of it. >> Yeah, and one of the things we're seeing, when it comes to Intel transforming from being a chip company to a supplier of equipment to basically a compute company. >> Yeah. >> We're seeing things that- >> It's that perspective change, right? >> Well, yeah, I mean you got to look at computers now, with Cloud, unlimited potential resources. >> Exactly. You can spin up a zillion virtual machines on the cloud, to do an edge analysis, whether it's a car or something else that's a luxury we didn't have back in the days when you were doing your first venture, did we? >> Yeah, no. >> Whole new world. Final thoughts, what are you working on now? What's the coolest thing you're doing? Give us an update on what's happening for you in the next year or so. >> Ah, the coolest thing, I think, the most exciting work is when we work with companies who sort of understand that either the future is upon them, or that they need to get ahead of it, right? And so, like I say when we're working with customers who do have perspective change, it's like really reinventing their universe, I think that's really, really powerful. It's better, you know, when it's proactive, as opposed to like, great, someone just sat on our head, but you know, sometimes you get there how you get there. So we're doing a lot of work I think looking at like, the technology of the future, but more importantly, how it will impact consumers today, and you know, really the evolution of your own customer base. >> Co-founder of Before Alpha, he's the 'Lead Alpha.' Gregarious, great to have you on theCUBE. Final thought, you've seen many waves, you've worked as a CTO, you've worked on start-ups, you worked with database, you worked social technology, now you're working kind of helping customers put together the future. What's the big learnings that you've seen over the past ten years that you're putting into place now, from a practical perspective to bring to your customers? >> Yeah, you know, I think everyone asks me, 'what's the secret to innovation?' That's the number one question I probably get. I have a list but the one thing I put at the top of the list is permission, right, which is that organizations tend to fail at this because people don't feel like they have permission to do it, they don't have permission to fail, they don't have permission to not work on something else that's taking up fifty percent of their calendar, right? And I think, you know, you see Samsung's innovative culture right, like for other brands, companies, corporations to be successful, if they don't enable, give that permission to their employees, they're never going to make it. >> Certainly with Cloud, you can try something new, and iterate, we see the lean start-up culture, kind of growing and artistry kind of coming in mainstream. Thoughts on artistry and art in technology coming together? >> I think it was a natural, peanut butter and jelly kind of moment from the beginning. Right, you talk to any engineer, any developer, they view what they do as art, right? And the expression of that, it takes any number of forms. >> And the great news is at the front lines, as they get more consumer tech, with like Samsung and Apple, you see guys out in the front lines really adding value, changing the scope of what's possible. >> It's the creator movement, right? Like they were having here is a big theme at this event as well. >> Right, creator moment, building the good apps, great technology, just theCUBE, creating great content here on the ground, at the edge of the network, here at the Samsung Developer Conference in Moscone West in San Fransisco. I'm John Furrier, be back with more after a short break. (electronic music)