>> live from New York. It's the Q covering AWS Global Summit 2019 brought to you by Amazon Web service is >> Welcome back to New York City. This is a W s summit and I'm stew Minutemen. My co host is Corey Quinn. We've talked to Amazon executives. We've talked to some customers. We've also talked to some of the partners and part of the partner ecosystem is course these startups aws very robust ecosystem that they've been building out. And one of the pieces were real excited to dig into in the surveillance space habit of revering program for first time. Ken Robinson, the CEO and founder of Goto Software who is the maker of cloud pegboard, take so much for joining us >> having to be here so exciting. >> Alright, So, Cloud pegboard, you had us hooked when we talked about you know, serverless you know, the the information overload that we all feel in the United with world. Cory's got a full time job helping with that and other things related to it s oh, bring us a little bit about, you know, pegboard in your background. >> Yeah, I want to help you out. So my background is I ran a major cloud transformation to Amazon. My past job, which I left in January and really solve problems, information overload, was slowing people down, people making sub optimal choices. They're spending a lot of time trying to keep up. Sometimes we have to be fact because they didn't have the right information the right time. And I realized we need to solve this. And it wasn't just in our organization. Every Amazon practitioner across the planet really needs help to keep up. When I talked with people, these conferences, it that's like the main comment, like, I can't consume it >> all. How you keep up can it is staggering. Actually, I stopped asking about two years ago how you keep up because I talked to some amazingly smart, well connected people and they're like, No, no, it's impossible. But I want you to comment on something I used to be. When you talking about, I need to start this. I should have started a year ago, but I didn't, so I should start now and now it feels like, Well, if I could, I actually should wait a couple of months or six months or even a year but I absolutely get started. So I guess I might as well start now because things change at such a pace. I mean, that that, you know. Oh, wait. If I could just wait a little bit longer Gonna be Maurin better and cheaper and faster s O. You know what you're taking kind of pace of change in the industry. >> Well, you know, one thing is, I think you just have to keep agile and buy into the fact you're going to have to throw away things like don't get so buried filled with what you can do today as best you can. But be ready to re factor and get rid of it. >> Oh! Oh, my God. I had the i t organization and the whole our quarters. Everything in i t is additive. Nothing ever dies. But I do agree with you. We have been for more than a decade. You know why our analyst team and talking, You have to get rid of stuff that needs to be able to do that. You know, sunk costs is something you're familiar with. Economics is you know, I need to understand that that even have been doing it for a while. We need to be able to cut that. But way have these attachments to the things we've been doing and how we've been doing it. No change isn't necessarily easy, >> right? Well, there's a reason some of the attacks is because there's a lot of investment to build up in the first place. And when you put so much sweat into it, then I don't want to undo it. When it gets easier to build, it's easier to throw away. So I was just giving this talk earlier and saying I religiously stick with infrastructure is code because if you do that, it's just so easy to make incremental changes. And again, Serverless makes everything so much easier if we don't get married to something. If it's changing like one window function, yeah, it's just kind of a bench of a big deal. So if you invest a little bit lessons easier by making use of special, the high level managed service is then it's easier to the pivot from one thing to another. One needs to. >> Yeah, something I found is I play with this stuff myself in a very similar space, with less comprehensiveness and far more sarcasm, I suspect than your service does, is that when you're building everything out of composited Lambda Functions tied together in a micro service's style. Re factoring one of those micro service is usually doesn't take more than a day or two as opposed to, Oh, just rebuild the entire monolith from scratch, which it feels like everyone tries to do. At some point, it almost enforces good behavior. It makes it easier to evolve as I've been your experience it differently. >> Absolutely. So this two things it helps. It's easy to re factor and throw things out because it's small and it's again, you're not married to it as much, but also easy to incrementally add on. So I have this whole tier of these micro service. Is that a captain? All this data that we're pulling in from multiple sources, whether it's Amazon's Web site or terror, for more get up any source I confined that has data that I want to organize help with my users. So we get Henry finding new data sources, leaks new data sources, essentially a new lambda function. It's independent, and if I change it, we actually had one recently I found a better data source. I just threw up the old one and plugged in the new one. And it really was less than a day to write the new function and a brilliant into production. So, yeah, >> can you know, one of the answers I've had for a long time is you know, I need to rely on, you know, my consultants and my suppliers because, you know, you don't even understand some of these architectural things that are going on. And things are changing so fast. So you know, how much can software solve this for us? And you know that the tools itself, I have to imagine there's still a lot of people involved. >> Yeah. There's always gonna be a lot of people involved. And there is no free lunch that, you know, every architect or developer of the Amazon. You still need to get yourself trained, get the certifications, read the white papers, keep up to date with all the changes. And we really do is we're running inside again. That's my past. Life is an enterprise. You really want to build internal excellence. Certainly we can use outside help when you need it. Augmentation. and blasts my people everywhere. But you definitely wanna have some internal expertise. And people are committed to growing and continuing going to New York summit, going to reinvent talking to people and always constantly learning It's going to take human effort to help, uh, filter down and find out. Where is the trend that I really need to start thinking about? Hopefully people. It is a tool helps people be much more efficient and focus in much easier. But nothing will replace engineers, which is a good thing, >> right? And for those who are outside of the, I guess very small fraternity we have apparently built. Now there are two of us who track this stuff for a living. It's it is far more complex than most people would accept. Why don't you just sign up for the R. S s feed? Well, for starters, there's over a dozen official aws R s s feed, and they're not all inclusive. You have to look at poor request getting merchant there a p I updates. You see it in cloud formation and terra form from time to time. And I am certainly not comprehensive. In fact, when I built my newsletter. Originally my thought was that someone was gonna point out something like Cloud Backboard and say, Well, idiot, use this instead. And then I shut it down and admit defeat, and that was the plan. Instead, a bunch of people signed up, and now I want people to read it for the joke's not because it's the only half sensible way to figure out what happened last week. No, I'm a huge fan of the problem you're solving in the way you've got about doing it. That said, when we talk about service architectures, you mentioned spinning up Lambda functions and tying it back into other things. But as they mention Nicky, no today server. This goes beyond just functions as a service. There's a lot more to it than that. What else is your architecture >> includes everything. Serverless exclusively. So >> So they're poking on. So you're collecting every service thing they offer and then some just a get style points there, regardless. >> Well, so you know, one of the half several strategic principles and one of them is to rely solely on serve Ellis because I just can't afford a small start up to be building out Mon function requirements that are building the business. So S O. S to be hosting dynamodb cloudfront ap Gateway. Then we use will all these features Not only do I use all serverless, but we're also using for disaster recovery designed so that we're using some additional features within these, so it's easier fail over. So cloudfront, for example, has Arjun fail over a relatively new feature and it's really amazing, right? I can go to my S three and I have the benefits of estimates service hosting. But now, in a failure cloudfront relative my alternate region continue our operating same thing with dynamodb using global table replication only >> and continuous backup, which they released. I'm not kidding. Three days after I really needed it. It's that seems like that's always the case where they have these features and they come in right after you need to read if you build a crappy version of it and it's one of those. But I love about things at a relatively small scale like this is the economics are ridiculous. It's well, watch out for continuous backups that could be expensive, and I wound up checking it, and it wound up being something like two cents a month. Yeah, I work real hard to bring enough in to cover the back up. Yeah, I >> had someone come up to me after one of the talks and asking like he's not in Amazon. He's thinking the moving there. It's like how much you I have something a little bit similar to what you're doing, and how much will it cost? How much like Budget and I say, To be honest, I've got some credits, Levin warning, but I can't spend them. I can't. I want to accelerate by spending money. I can't do it, especially with dynamodb. Used to be that you would provisions something, a lot of eye ops and that would rack up really fast. Now I'm using the on demand, and it's just not costing anything. So that's what again. This Burn was talking about not paying for idle time, >> and some of the monitoring tools in the surveillance space air still approaching it from an economic first perspective, which for anything that isn't already scaled out, is ludicrous. It has, like warnings, going arrows going up or down on my spend on my land is every month, and it's 22 cents. It's I appreciate where you're going with this, but maybe that's not the driving concern right now. So I >> had a funny experience where I turned on Macy so we could get some good inspection on the anomaly buckets. And on the first of the month, I got a notice saying, Hey, you exceeded the free tier. I was in a bit of a panic has been more than once. I'm sad to say that I've let things run longer than they should and paid the price, and I owe something has run amok. Well, it turns out, just because of the metadata scans, it does kind of use a lot of access is. But then still was under a buck for the whole month by the time outs and done because I came in to begin the month with a bunch of scanning. Yeah, it's just a big fan of service. I did this thing. >> Yeah, I was just Kennedy. Speaking of survival is an Amazon event Bridge was announced this morning. Really building that event ecosystem around Lambda. Curious what impact that will have on you will cloud pegboard be able to go outside of AWS to kind of understand some of these sacks applications. >> I have to learn more about it. I was not in on a preview or anything, so I don't know exactly get. But But yes, we will rip apart meeting with other providers anywhere. There's an information source that can help developers hone in better and kind of get everything in the right place at the right time on. So, yes, things like that will help, especially if it can work through. I don't want to be opening up sqs cues way worried about the I am the cross account. That could be complicated, so I'll be interested to learn. And I don't know yet if that will help in those sorts of integrations, especially on the office. Can't authentication and authorization aspects of it? >> Yeah, there's a lot of promise in the idea of being able to give the minimum viable, required a p. I call for something third party. It seems like there they'll integrate into something like that. Well, here's how I am works and then we have to worry about access controls and oh yeah, there's no direct i p address the white list. And on and on and on. It's challenging to forcibly upgrade third parties. Unless you're effectively a giant, world spanning company, you can demand that they do it. So this it really feels like we're meeting third parties in some ways where they are. >> Yeah, I think so. And I think this is looking forward to them because I want to both consume maybe eyes. But also all my data is available via AP I So today it's a bit of a traditional. No, he and rest would have been the face, but if I could export that in other ways, that would be very interesting as well. >> I think it's too easy to get stuck in the economic story of times. I know it's weird is a cloud economist to be saying that, But when it comes to server list, the value is less about cost control, and saving money on it is you don't have to worry about entire subsets of problems capacity planning your effectively when it comes to things like Lambda Dynamodb and the rest. The constraint on scaling is going to be your budget. I promise. No matter who these budgets are, go for me. This is what they run amazon dot com on. I don't think I'm gonna do more business than that. Unless I really miss configure something. Challenge accepted. >> Yeah. Yeah. So I totally agree that scaling is the value, but it's also this more right. The scaling is absolutely one. And then, in addition to fragility, because survivalist means service. But now the term is getting confused, right? It means so many things. So I was saving serverless managed service is to help Seo. I'm talking about more than compute, but it also means is I'm getting a very high level function. So I'm getting so for David, we're using Comprehend. That's an awful lot of stuff going on under there that I don't have to worry about. I mean, I literally have an intern in a couple of days, completed a task to do some entity extraction of such a Amazon service stains out of unstructured data. She was able to do it. She just finished a freshman year, right? I was able to do this with minimal training because it's survivalist shouldn't worry about scalability. What she needed to know is that oh, I can use this function. I could read maybe I documentation, and I could just use it for me. Another big function behind step, but also no maintenance low, maybe a more accurate term. But essentially, it's no maintenance, especially for a small start up. I used to have businesses way back when pre Internet I ran an aviation weather service in my life was the bane of my existence because it had to be. At 24 7 I had satellite dishes that would get snowed on. I was an idiot. Did this in New England. They have to shovel him off at four in the morning. I don't like waking up in the middle of the night to serve my computers. They should serve me. And in the service of the fact that there's no maintenance stuff, just runs. You think about the times. How many times have you had a serve in the past when you just thought you should reboot it every week? Because maybe >> because tradition, >> tradition and maybe there's a leak somewhere, Melinda function reboots. Every invocation. It just never happens that I have run out of resource is something that I'm just a love affair. >> All right, so So Ken. It's obvious how you feel about server list, but as a start up, just give us a final thoughts on what it's like to be a startup that is on with and, you know, using AWS. >> Well, for me, it's fantastic. It allows me to focus on the problem, to solve immediately and by using high in the stack like you're saying surveillance capabilities. I'm not worried about the infrastructure. I read a little bit of confirmation. I deploy it, and I'm always working on business logic and functionality, and I'm not worrying about well, its scale. Do I have to maintain it, I think, really focus on the problems to solve, and that's where they've been very helpful to make. So now we have something where I can scale. I'm hoping I'm not there yet, but every Amazon practitioner should want to use cloud pegboard. I think it helps with a general problem, so I need to be able to scale to millions. Firstly, I don't know what the doctor is going to be, but I have confidence because I'm using all these service capabilities. S3 will do it. Amazon Gateway in Lambda will do it, so I don't worry about it. So for a start up, to not have to worry about that is it's really pretty powerful. >> And by the time you wind up in a cost prohibitive situation, we're okay. Running some baseline level load that something that isn't server Lis begins to make significant economic sense. At that point, your traffic volumes definitional hier so high that by that point there's a team of people who will be able to focus on that. You don't need to bring those people into get off the ground in >> the same way, right? It's that fast start, and we gotta learn. There's so much to learn here with any start up. But you know, in mind as well to really get some of the user experience, get the feedback. It's We have a lot of good ideas, and I think what we have now is helpful. I have a long term road map with a lot of great ideas, but it's gonna take a lot of user feedback to say, Is this working and the service lets you tried things quickly. I could get in front of people, get that learning cycle going and iterated fast as possible. So that will be really important. All right, >> Ken Robbins really help you appreciate you educating our audience. Climb aboard. Wish you best of luck with >> it. I appreciate being here. >> All right. For Cory Quinn. I'm still minimum, and we'll be back with more coverage here from eight of US Summit in New York City. Thanks. Always for watching the cue.