>> Narrator: From around the globe it's the CUBE with digital coverage of Mirantis Launchpad 2020, brought to you by Mirantis. >> Welcome back, I'm Stu Miniman, and this is the CUBE's coverage of Mirantis Launchpad 2020. And always love when we get to be able to talk to the practitioners that are using some of the technologies here. One of the interesting things we've been digging into is lens, the IDE in this space, as it's being referred to. So, happy to welcome to the program Matti Paksula. He is the founder and chief technology officer at supervisor.com. Matti, thanks so much for joining us. >> Thank you, thank you thank you for having me. >> So, if you could just, you help us understand, you know, your company as supervisor.com. What's the background as the founder? What was kind of the impetus to creating that business too? >> Sure, so, supervisor was this like super simple because we believe, and we know, that the only way to tests websites, if they can handle load, for example, eCommerce sites on black Friday, or when you, or, just about to make a product launch or that kind of stuff. Is just by sending real web browsers to the site. That's actually click and scroll and do it all the same things as a real users will do. But, and unlike, our secret thing is that we can do it, like before Black Friday. So, if somebody wants to simulate if they can handle like 2000 users or 5000 users, then they can use supervisor.com to make it happen like today. >> So, I'm just curious, you know, the concern always is about the DDoS attacks and the like. Do you help companies along that line too? Or is it more the, the testing for proper traffic and we leave the security aspect to somebody else? >> Yeah, well, like with any load testing tool, you have to verify yourself somehow. And with us, it's super easy because we integrated with Google analytics. And if you authorize us to read your Google Analytics Data, then we know that you are allowed to test your site. >> Wonderful, well, as I said in the lead, you're using lens, my understanding you've been using it since the early day, of course, a technology that closed source Mirantis has, has acquired that and the team, it's now also open source. So if you could bring us back to, you know, how did you get involved with lens? What was the, you know, the problem statement that it helped you resolve? >> Yeah, sure. So the (inaudible) super briefly is that Lens was developed by this startup called Condena, it's a finish startup, and they made a couple of attempts in container orchestration, like before Kubernetes and then Coobernetti's game. And they just felt like Kubernetes is super hard to kind of visualize or like, understand what's going on because you have these containers flying around, you have nodes going in going out. So they built this lens and then since I'd be working with those guys from 2015 or so, I was like one of the first outside users, or probably the first user outside of the company. >> So, that, pretty neat that you had that, you know, that project that they were doing. As an early user, you know, give us a little bit of that journey. What does it enable for your company? You know, how has it expanded from kind of the early use cases to where it is today. >> Yeah. So, if you're using Kubernetes traditionally, or like how most of the people who haven't yet heard about Lens use it is by or from the command line. So that's where you use keep CTL or cube control. You say cube CTL pod, and then you get the listing pod. But the problem is that, all that data is stale on the screen. So if you trend try to, for example, delete a port and you issue cutesy delete pod, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then you enter on the pod all ready, it might be gone. So Lens makes like everything real time. And like, if you try to delete something with lens, you move your mouse on top of the pod. And if it's getting deleted, you know, this, it, because it just disappears from your screen and like, it's not there anymore. And I think that's a huge a productivity boost in a way, that's how you can like get more and more stuff done every day as these kind of like, when you are a developer or CSI admin or whatever you need to kind of like, see what's happening in your cluster and house that note and pods are doing. And that. So back to your question, when you asked, like, how has the evolved lens it's like nowadays it's super stable. It handles big workloads very well. In the very, very early on, they had some performance issues with like, like large clusters, for example, when supervisor, when we run a load test with, for example, 10,000 concurrent web browsers. So basically what we have in Kubernetes is we have 10,000 pods. And then when you connect something like lens to it, it's just like started to spin up my fans until on the laptop, still about eating all the Ram. So I helped them a lot with my special use case of running like super big Ephemeral workloads there. >> Yeah. It's an interesting discussion. And in the whole, you know, container space, there's all that discussion of scale(chuckling). You know, of course everybody thinks back to Google and how they use it. So we know it can go really big, but, you know, environments, I needed to be able to work really small or youth cases like yours. I needed to be able to, you know, burst use that usage when you need it and go back on that a less density that we hope for in, in cloud. So I'm curious any, what's your expectation with it, you know, going open source, coming into Mirantis as a, as a longtime user of it, you know, what do you expect to see? >> Well, I think like Mirantis offers the right kind of home for the product, because they really get what's happening in the space. And I think they're like commercial offering on top of the open source will be around authentication. That's why, like, I kind of understood from the press release. And I think it makes sense because like, developers don't want to pay for these kinds of tools. And there are other tools that are commercial. And even if it's like just 100 bucks per year, I think that's still not going to work out with most of the developers and you kind of need this kind of long tail developer adoption for these kinds of products to succeed. And I think that, like, that's kind of like authentication, like centralized, like who can see what, and that kind of stuff. It doesn't like affect most of the startups or Indie Devs, but like for any company who was doing it like a real business, those are the features that are needed. And when you use that, the products for business, then I think it makes sense to pay also. >> Yeah, absolutely. There's always that, challenge developers of course love open source tools if they can use them. And, you know, the packaging, the monetization, isn't a question for you it's(chuckling), you know, for the Miranda's team. What would you say to your peers out there, people that are in this space, you know, what are the areas that they say, Oh, you know, if I have this type of environment, or if I have type, if I have this team, this is what lens will really be awesome for me. What are some of the things that you would recommend to your peers out there from, from all the usage that you've done? >> Yeah. So let's say three things. The first thing is what I already mentioned the real timeness that everything updates live, the second thing is the integrated metrics. So you cannot, for example, follow how much memory or CPU something is consuming. It's super helpful when you want to like, understand what's really going on and how much resources something is taken. And then the third thing is that Landis is great for debugging because once you have deployed something and something is off, and it's kind of hard to reproduce locally, especially with this kind of a microservice architecture, whatever, what you might have is that you can just like go inside at any part or note instantly from the UI. You don't have to, like, again, you don't have to use cubes sheets, the L blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And, and you have just like in there also, because you are already in the. But its the fourth thing is that if you manage multiple Kubernetes clusters, it's super easy to accidentally connect to the wrong cluster. But like, if you have, some visual tool where you can see in I'm in this. I mean, my production cluster are I'm in my staging cluster and you make the selection like visually there, then all the cube sees and everything works against that's a cluster. So I think that's like very helpful so that you don't actually accidentally delete something from production, for example. >> Wonderful. Last question I have for you either blend specifically, or kind of the eco-system around it, what, would be on your wishlist for, as I said, either lance specifically, or to, you know, manage your environments surrounding that, you know, what, what would you be asking kind of Miranda and, the broader eco-system for? >> I know that, well, let me think. Yeah. Okay. First of all, I have like maybe 50, 60 issues still open a GitHub that I have opened there. So that's like my wish list, but like, if you, they got like longer term, I think it would just be great, if you could actually like start deployments from Lance, there are a bunch of deployment tools, like customize and help. But again, if you just wanted to get something running quickly, I think integrating that to Lance would be like, super good. Just you it's just like click like I want to deploy this app. That's, that's something I'm looking forward to. >> Yeah, absolutely. Everybody wants that simplicity. All right. Well, Hey, thank you so much. Great to hear the feedback. We always talk about the people that developed code, as well as, you know, the people that do the beta testing and the feedback. So critically important to the maturation development of everything that's based though. Thanks so much for joining us. >> Thank you. >> Stay tuned for more coverage from Mirantis Launchpad 2020 I'm Stu Miniman. And thank you for watching the cube. (upbeat music)