>>The Cube Presents UI Path Forward five. Brought to you by UI Path. >>Hi everybody. Welcome back to UI Path Forward at five. You're watching the Cubes coverage. Everybody here is automating everything. Mundane tasks, Enterprisewide Automation Platform Beats product. Dave Nicholson. Dave Ante, Garish Pie is here. He is the Global head of Intelligent Enterprise Automation at Cognizant Global. Si, good to see you. Thanks for coming to the queue. Thank you for having me. Tell us about your role. What are you focused on? So, >>So I lead the enterprise automation practice at Cognizant, and we are focused on three broad segments, right? So we help customers anchor to business outcomes in, in looking at the business outcomes, what we look to do is help them drive transformation at a process level, looking at it from a technology standpoint, and then helping them look at how they're trying to drive change across their entire enterprise and bringing that together, you know, and helping them harmonize both at a technology and at a process level in terms of, you know, the outcomes they're trying to achieve. So >>You guys are a partner, I see your booth over there, and you're also a customer, right? Yes, we are. So are you involved in the both sides? One side, what, what, what's your purpose? >>So we do, so we, we sort of work, So we have a full 360 degree relationship with the i p. So we work with them, you know, in a professional services capacity. They, they support us as a partnership in the marketplace where we go into a number of our customers jointly to drive turnkey transformational engagements from an automation standpoint and second from a, as a, as a, as a customer to UiPath, they've been supporting us, you know, drive a number of automation initiatives across our operations book over the course of the last two years. >>Okay. So tell us more about that. So you started your internal journey, we had you guys on last year. Yep. It were just getting started I think, I think I think you, your head count is what, 60,000 somewhere around? Yeah. 70,000. Yeah, $70,000 growing. I think at the time it was maybe less than 10% of the workforce was kind of automated and the goal was to automate everybody. How are you guys doing along >>The, I think it's starting to in industrialize quite significantly. So over the course of the last year since we last spoke to you, probably, you know, we've doubled the head count in terms of the number of people that are now, you know, officially what we call quote unquote citizen developers. And you know, how they are driving automation at a personal level, we've probably gone about 2.5 x in terms of the number of RS we've saved. So we've done about, I think 450,000 rs, you know, in terms of actual saves at a personal automation level. And look, it's, it's been a great, you know, last 12 months too, right? Because, you know, as we've sort of started to get the message percolated more and more, our teams have started to get energized. They are happy that they are, you know, getting a release in terms of what they're doing on a day to day basis, which is largely repetitive at times, very mundane. And now they have the ability to bring in technology to be able to embrace that and drive that, that you know, much more efficiently. >>Are you talking dozens of bots? Thousands of bots? What's the scope of? >>So I think we've, we've scaled to about 3,500 today in terms of the bots and, and it's, it's a journey that continues to evolve. For me, the number is probably something which I wouldn't anchor to because it's, look, it's end of the day what you end up releasing and what you end up freeing and what the teams are doing. And I think, you know, that's the way we are >>Leading. So you're saying like, we always talk about number of boss, but you're saying it's largely in a relevant metric? Well, and not if it's five versus a thousand. Okay. That's meaningful, right? But, but >>Yeah, I think look a number for me, I think it's not about the number, right? It's about the outcome and it's about what impact you're having in, in terms of, you know, what you're trying to get done at the end of the day, right? Because ultimately you're trying to better, you know, what you do on a day to day basis and you know, whether it's done through 10 or whether that's done through 10,000. >>Yeah. But you pay >>Form, >>Right? Exactly. So, so you better get some value out. Exactly. It's about the value. >>But is there, is there a, is there a curve in terms, you know, an s-curve in terms of scalability though? I mean we, we, we've heard organizations doing, from organizations doing an amazing amount of modernization and automation and they say they've got 15 bots running, you have 3,500. Is there a number where it becomes harder to manage or, or is there scalability involved? >>So look, for me, so let me answer it this way, right? I think, I think there are two aspects to it. I think the, the, the, the more you have, you know, the bigger the challenge in terms of how you run the controls, the governance and the residency in terms of, you know, how you manage the, you know, the, the setup of the bots itself. So I think, yeah, I mean we want to have it to a manageable number, but for us, in the way we've looked at the number of bots, one of the things that we've done is we also look at, you know, what's foundational versus what's nuanced in terms of the kind of use cases that you're trying to deliver. So, so any program of this nature, you need to have a setup, which is, you know, which allows you to sort of orchestrate it in the right manner so that as you sort of scale and you bring more people into that equation, you, it's, you're not just creating bots for the sake of it, but you're actually, you know, trying to look at what you can reuse, what you can orchestrate better. >>And then in the context of that, figuring out where you have the gaps and then hence, you know, sort of taking the delta approach of what else and what more you need to build it. >>So you guys have a big observation space. You work with a lot of customers and, and so what are you seeing as the trends when you look out there? How are you applying it to your own business and your customer's businesses? >>So look, for me, I think the last two years, if anything, the one thing I've taken away is that transformation is now extremely, extremely compressed, right? So, so it's almost, you know, what's true today is probably irrelevant tomorrow. So, which means you have to continually evolve in terms of what needs to be done, right? Second is experiences have become extremely, extremely crucial and critical and experiences of, in, in my mind, you know, two or three kinds, right? One the end customer second from an employee standpoint, and third, in terms of the partner ecosystem that you will have as an enterprise that you have to cater to, right? The other element that you know, which becomes true will always remain true is the whole outcome story in terms of, you know, how we have an anchor to why you're trying to do what you're trying to do. >>And that is, you know, core to what you need to get done. So in the way we've looked at it, as we've said, you know, as you sort of look at how transformation is now evolving and how compressed it's starting to become, the more you are able to orchestrate for what the enterprise is trying to get done in terms of modernization, in terms of digitization, in terms of end goals and end outcomes that they're trying to achieve. And the more you're able to sweat what sits within, you know, the enterprise bring that together as you think about automation is, you know, where the true value lies in terms of being able to create an agile enterprise. >>When you think about digital transformation, digital experiences, if it's, if it's a layer cake, where is automation in that, in that layer? Is it, is it sort of the bottom of the stack? Is it, is it the whole stack? >>So for me it's, I mean it's, it's evolved. If you take today's view, I think what's emerging is a very pervasive view of how you think about automation. It sits across, you know, the entire enterprise. It, it, it, it takes a people process, technology dimension, which is age old. It has to cover, you know, all forms of transformation. You know, whether you're looking at end, how do I say, impact in terms of how you're dealing with customers, whether you're looking at the infrastructure, whether you're looking at the data layer in between, it has to be embedded across the base, right? It, it, you have to take a pervasive approach. And for me, I think automation increasingly in the days ahead is gonna be an enterprise capability. You know, it has to be, you know, all pervasive in the way it needs to be set up. >>The key, the operative word there is pervasive. And that seems to be, you know, the era that we're entering, I don't know what you call it, call it the metaverse, I mean, you know, it's more than cloud and cloud is basically just the infrastructure, right? You're building on top of that, whether it's natural language processing or cryptography or virtual, I mean, there's so many different, you know, technology dimensions, right? But it, but the point about pervasive, okay, it's everywhere. It's sensing, it's anticipatory, it feels like there's this new, you know, construct, emerging of platform that is the basis for digital business, right? And I, and I feel like every 15 years our industry goes through some big transformation. How, how do you see it? You know, do you agree that you, it feels like, okay, something new is happening. It's, it's not gonna be the social media, you know, Facebook's not gonna continue to dominate the world as it does. You already seen some cracks in that armor. We saw Microsoft after the pc, and then of course it came back with cloud Amazon looks, you know, indestructible. But that, that's never the end story, right? In our, in our world, how do you see that? >>No, I think all of what you said, I, I would sort of tend to agree with, for me, look, I don't have a crystal ball to say, you know, what's gonna happen with Facebook or Amazon or >>Otherwise. Yeah. But that's what makes this fun. But >>I, Yeah, but, but I think for me, the, the core is I think you're dictated by, you know, us as end consumers, if you're a B2B or a b2b, b2c, you know, depending upon what business you're in, I think the end customer value dictates, you know, what evolves in terms of, you know, the, the manifestation of, you know, how you will two minutes sort of deliver services, the products that you'll get into. And in that context then, you know, whether you take a, a TikTok view to it or whether you take an Amazon view to it, or whether YouTube becomes relevant in the days ahead, I think it's gonna be dictated by, >>By customer, but it tends to be a technology that's the disruptor, it's the microprocessor or it's the social capability or, or maybe it's ai that, that is the catalyst for that. And then the customer adoption dictates, oh, you're right about that. But there, but the, the match is usually technology. Is that fair or not necessarily? Yeah, >>I still look, I mean you talked about metaverse earlier, right? I think we are, I think we are, it's probably hype more than it is reality right now, at least in my view. And it's, I think we are significantly out in terms of, you know, large scale adoption in terms of what needs to be done. You talk about blockchain, blockchains been around, you know, for at least a decade if not more in, in, right. The way it's being talked about, the adoption, you know, in terms of the, the, the applicability of the, you know, of what is that technology I think is understood, but the actual use cases in terms of how it can be taken into the market and how you can scale it across industries, I think is, you know, is still because >>The economics determine ultimately exactly the outcome. So, Okay, that makes sense. >>Yeah. Now you said you don't have a crystal ball. I, I have one, but when I look into it, it's sort of murky when I try to figure out the answer to the question, Is a platform necessary for this, for automation? I mean, this is really the direction, the question, the existential question in terms of the trajectory of UI path. It seems obvious that automation is critical. It's not as obvious where that automation is going to end up eventually because it's so critical. It feels like it's almost the same as, okay, there's an interface between my keystrokes and filling in a box with text. Well, of course there has to be, there has to be that interface, right? So why wouldn't everyone deliver that by default? So as you gaze into my crystal ball with me, tell me about the things that only a platform can do from your perspective. >>So, >>So, so, so think of it this way, right? I mean, any enterprise probably has hundreds of technologies that they've invested in some platform, some applications that you would've built and evolved over time, which are bespoke custom in nature. So for me, I think when you think about automation, I think it's the balance between the two. What a platform allows you to do is to be able to orchestrate, given the complexity and the, the spa that is any enterprise, you know, that's probably got the burden of, you know, what they've done over the course of the, the previous years. And then in that context then, you know, how do you sort of help get the, the best value out of that in terms of what you want to deliver as the end, end outcomes, if I can call it that, right? So for me, I don't think you can say it's, it's her platform versus the rest. >>I think it's gonna be, it's always gonna be a balance and to the question that you asked earlier. And in terms of saying where does an automation end up at? I think if it's gonna be a pervasive view, look, you know, if, if clients are trying to modernize and get onto the cloud, you can do automation at a cloud level too. Now, you know, do I say then, you know, is it, is it sort of inclusive or it's native to what the cloud providers offer? Or do I then go and say automation needs to be something which I will, you know, sort of overlay on top of what the cloud providers offer. So I think it depends upon what dimension that you come at it. So I don't think you can say it's one or the other. You have a platform, I think it helps you orchestrate quite significantly. But there are gonna be aspects within any enterprise, given the complexity that exists that you will have to balance out, you know, platform versus, you know, how you have to address it maybe in a more individual capacity. >>Garris, gotta go. Thank you so much. Appreciate your perspectives. Good conversation. All right, keep it right there. But trains will back it up. We'll be right back right after this short break. The cube live at UI path forward, five from Las Vegas.

>>Fly from San Francisco. It's the cube covering RSA conference, 2020 San Francisco brought to you by Silicon angled media. >>Okay, welcome back. Everyone's keeps coverage here in San Francisco for RSA. Copper's 2020. I'm John Farrow, your host, you know, cybersecurity industry's changing and enterprises are now awake to the fact that is now a bigger picture around securing the enterprise cause it's not only the data center, it's cloud, it's the edge. A lot of great stuff. I've got a great guest here from Dell, EMC, Peter Garris, consultant cyber resilient solutions and services marketing, uh, Dell EMC. Great to see you. Thanks for to John. Good to see you again. So you know, I was joking with Dave Alante just this morning around the three ways of cloud, public cloud, hybrid cloud, multi-cloud. And we see obviously the progression hybrid cloud is where everyone spend most of their time. That's from ground to cloud on premises to cloud. Yep. So pretty much everyone knows around on premise is not going away, validated by all the big cloud players. >>But you've got to nail the equation down for on premises to the cloud, whether it's Amazon, Amazon, Azure, Azure, whatever, all those costs. But the multicloud will be a next generation wave that is an industry backdrop and it's very, very key. Plus AI and data are huge inputs into solving a lot of what is going to be new gaps, blind spots, whatever insecurity. So I guess, you know, Dell's has a history with huge client base, traditional enterprises transforming. You're in the middle of all this. So you've got, you know, the airplane at three to 30,000 feet. Yep. And the companies have to swap out their engines and reboot their teams and it's a huge task. What's going on with cyber and the enterprises? What are, what are some of the key things? Well, so I like to keep it pretty simple. I've been in this industry over 20 years and I've really consistently talked about data as the global currency, right. >>So it's beautifully simple. Whatever industry you're in, whatever size company you're in, enterprise or even now, small to medium businesses, their businesses are driven by data connectivity. That data availability of the data, integrity of the data and confidentiality of the data, and so the sort of the area of the world that I focus upon is protecting customers. Most valuable data assets now, whether those are on prem, in the cloud or in a variety of modalities, and ensuring that those assets are protected and isolated from the attack surface and then ability to recover those critical assets quickly so they can return resume business operations. That's really the area that I work in. Now, that data, as you pointed out, it could start on prem, it could live in multi-cloud, it can live in a hybrid environment. The key is really to to understand that not all data is created equally if you were to have a widespread cyber attack, really the key is to bring up those critical applications, systems and datasets first to return to business operations. >>Really challenging. You know, it's not funny. It's actually, I just, I run it, but it's, it's, it's, it's really kind of indicative of the society now is that EMC was bought by Dell storage and the idea of disruption was always been a storage concept. Yes, we want, we don't want a lot of disruption when we're doing things right. So not know whether it's backup and recovery or cyber ransomware, whatever it is, the idea of non-disruptive operations. Absolutely. A core tenant. Now that's obviously the same for cyber as you can tell. So I've got to ask you, what is your definition in view of cyber resilience because, well, that's what we're talking about here. Cyber resilience. What's your view on this? So when we started developing our cyber recovery solution about five years ago, we used, uh, the NIST cybersecurity framework, which is a very well known standard that defines really five pillars of how organizations can think about building a cyber resilience strategy. >>A cyber resilience strategy really encompasses everything from a perimeter threat detection and response all the way through incident response after an attack. And everything that happens in between protecting the data and recovering the data, right? And critical systems. So I think of cyber resilience is that holistic strategy of protecting an organization and its data from a cyber attack as great insight. I want to get your thoughts on how that translates into the ecosystem. Okay. Because there's an ecosystem around cyber resilience. Absolute, let's just say, and you may or may not be able to comment on this, but RSA was now being sold. Yeah, no, that's fair. That's going out of the Dell family. But you guys have, you know, obviously VMware and insecure words, but it's not just you guys. It's an ecosystem. It really is. Does Dell now without, with and without RSA fit into the ecosystem. >>So as I mentioned, cyber resilience is really thought of as a holistic strategy. RSA and, and other Dell assets like carbon black, um, fit in somewhere in that continuum. Right? So RSA is really more on threat detection and response, perimeter protection. The area of the business that I work on, data protection and cyber recovery really doesn't address the, um, prevention of attacks. We really start with the premise that preventing a cyber attack is not a hundred percent possible. If you believe that, then you need to look at protecting and recovering your assets. Right? And so whether it's RSA, whether it's carbon black, whether it's secure works, which is about cyber incident and response, we really work across those groups. It's, it's about technology processes and people. It's not any one thing. We also work outside of the Dell technologies umbrella. So we integrate, our cyber recovery solution is integrated with Unisys stealth. >>Uh, so there's an example of how we're expanding and extending the cyber recovery solution to bring in, you know, other industry standards. You know, it's interesting, I talked to a lot of people that come on the Q of history here at RSA. Sure. Everyone wants better technology, but this also has shipped back the best of breed because you one of the best new technologies. At the same time, you've gotta have proven solutions. So what are you guys selling? What is the best of breed from, uh, Dell? Yeah, you guys are delivering to customers. What are some of the areas? So I, I'm old EMC guy myself, right? And, and back from the days of disaster recovery and business continuity, right? More traditional data protection and backup. The reality is that the modern threats of cyber sec of cyber hackers, breaches, insider attacks, whatever you like, those traditional data protection strategies weren't built to address those types of threats. >>So along with transformation and modernization, we need to modernize our data protection. That's what cyber recovery is. It's a modern solution to the modern threat. And what it does is it augments your data or your, excuse me, your disaster recovery and your backup environment with a purpose built isolated air gap digital vault, which is built around our proven data domain and power protect DD platforms. Uh, that, you know, I've been around for over a decade. Um, but what we've done is added intelligence, uh, analytics. We've hardened that system and we isolate it. Uh, so customers can protect really the most valuable assets in that kind of evolved. So one of the things I've been doing some research on and digging into is cyber resilience, which you just talked about cybersecurity, which is the industry trend and you're getting at cyber recovery. Okay. Can you talk about some examples of how this all threads together? >>What are some real recent examples? Sure. So think of cyber recovery as a purpose-built digital vault to secure your most valuable assets. Let me give you an example. One of our customers, is it a global paint manufacturer? Okay. And when we work with them to try to decide what of their apps and datasets should go into this cyber recovery vault, it said, what is the most critical intellectual property that you have? So in their Kenyan, Oh, some customers might say my Oracle financials or my office three 65 environment. For this customer it was their proprietary paint matching system. So they generate 80 to $100 million every day based upon this proprietary paint matching system, which they've developed and which they use every day to run their business. If that application, if those algorithms were destroyed, contaminated or you know, posted on the public internet somewhere, that would fundamentally change that company. >>So that's really what we're talking about. We're working with customers to help them identify their most critical assets, data systems, applications, and isolate those from the threat vector. Obviously all verticals are impacted by cyber security. Every vertical is data-driven. That's true. Obviously the low hanging fruit, are they below the normal suspects financial services? Is there, is there a particular one that's harder than having financial services got fraud and all that stuff on it, but yeah, that's still number one or so. I think there's two sides to the coin. One, if you look at the traditional enterprise environments, absolutely financial services in healthcare because they're both heavily regulated, uh, therefore that data has very high value and is a very attractive target to the Woodby hackers. If you look on the other end of the spectrum though, the small to medium businesses that all rely on the internet for their business to run, uh, they're the ones that are most susceptible because they don't have the budgets, the infrastructure or the expertise to protect themselves from a sophisticated hacker. >>Um, so we, you know, we work across all verticals. Obviously the government is also very susceptible to cyber threats, but it's every industry, any business that's data-driven. I mean, everyone's been breached so many times and no one even knows how many times. Uh, I gotta ask you about, um, um, some cool trends we're reporting on here. Sure. Homomorphic encryption is getting a lot of traction here because financial services in healthcare homomorphic homomorphic yeah. Okay. Did I say that right? Oh, it's the first time I've ever heard that term, John. I, it's encryption at end use. So you have data at rest, data in flight and data and use encryption. When you're doing all, you're protecting all your transactional data. Ah, so it's focusing with discovery. Intel's promoting it. Uh, we just covered a startup that's doing that as well. That's new, that's new for me, but allows for more use cases, but data and use, not just motion static. >>Yeah. That's opening up these other things. But it brings up the why, why that's important. And the reason is, is that financial services and healthcare, because they're regulated. Yes. Have systems that were built many moons ago or generations. Absolutely. So there was not these problems that you mentioned earlier that were built for that, but now you need more data. AI needs sharing of data sharing is a huge deal. Real time share real time. Right. And I think that's where the homomorphic encryption comes in. That's exactly right. So you mentioned that, so these industries, how can they maintain their existing operations and then get more data share? Do you have any insight into how you see that? Because that's one of those areas that's becoming like, okay, HIPAA, we know why that was built, but it's also restrictive. Yeah. How do you maintain the purity of a process if your infrastructure is, is old? >>That is, that is a challenge. Healthcare especially because, I mean, if I'm, if I'm, uh, you know, running a health system, every dollar that I have should really go into improving patient care, not necessarily into my it infrastructure, but the more that every industry moves towards a real time data-driven model for, for how we give care. Right? Yeah. Um, the more that, uh, companies need to realize that data drives their business, they need to do everything they can to protect it and also ensure that they can recover it when and if a cyber attack happens. Well, I really appreciate the insight and it's going to be great to see Dell technologies world coming up. We'll dig into a lot of that stuff while we're here on talking to us about some of this financial service in banking. I want to get your thoughts, I've been hearing this term sheltered Harbor. >>Yeah. Being kicked around. What does that about? What does that mean? Sheltered Harbor? You're right, I think you'll hear a lot more about it. So sheltered Harbor, uh, was, uh, is it isn't financial industries group and it's also a set of, uh, best practices and specifications. And really the, the purpose of sheltered Harbor is to protect consumer and financial institutions data, uh, and public confidence in the U S financial system. So the, the, the use cases, this, you can imagine that a, a bank having a cyber attack and B being unable to produce transactions could cause problems for customers of that bank. But the, just like we were talking about the interconnectedness of the banking system means that one financial institution failing because of a cyber attack, it could trigger a cascade and a panic and a run on the U S financial banks. And therefore the global financial system sheltered Harbor was developed to really protect public confidence in the financial system by ensuring that banks, brokerages, credit unions are protecting their customer data, their account records, their most valuable assets from cyber attack and that they can recover them and resume banking operations quick. >>So this is an industry group. It's an industry build group. Sheltered Harbor is a U S financial, uh, industry group. Uh, it's a nonprofit. You can, you can learn more about it. It's sheltered harbor.org. Uh, the interesting thing for Dell technologies is we're actually the first member of the sheltered Harbor solution provider program and we'll be announcing that shortly. In fact this week and we'll have a cyber recovery for sheltered Harbor solution in the market very shortly. Cyber resilience. Great topic, and you know, it just goes to show storage has never gone away. The basic concepts of it, recovery, continuous operations, not disruptive operations. Yeah, cloud scale changes the game. It's all about the data. All about the data. Still sites, RSA coverage here, cube day, two of three days of coverage. I'm John furrier here on the ground floor in Moscone in San Francisco. Thanks for watching.