>> Speaker: From around the globe, it's theCube with coverage of SUSECON DIGITAL brought to you by SUSE. >> Welcome back, this is theCube's coverage of SUSECON DIGITAL '20. I'm Stu Miniman and really happy to welcome to the program. We have one of the keynote speakers, Alexander Kocher. He is president and managing director of Elektrobit, really excited to dig in and talk about autonomous vehicles. Alex, thank you so much for joining us. >> Thank you Stu Miniman, I'm really excited that you pronounced my family name correct because this is quite difficult for you. It's a German name, thank you very much. >> Well, luckily on theCube, we do have lots of global people we have on the program. I try to do my best. My [mumbles] is all I can say really [mumbles]. >> Very difficult to pronounce it. >> Alright, so Alex, obviously autonomous vehicles is one of those use cases that talk a lot about everything from edge computing, to AI, you know, software eating the world, really one of those transformative technologies. Why don't we start with first, Elektrobit, give us a little bit as to, where Elektrobit fit in kind of the global auto landscape. >> Yeah, thank you Stu. So Elektrobit was founded in the late eighties, 1988. And since then, we are really doing embedded to be a pioneer in the embedded software and, providing solutions, software technologies, for the automotive industry. Since then we are powering more than 1 billion devices in much more than 100 million vehicles worldwide. And we are serving the automotive industry since then. So software is really becoming the single biggest enabler of innovation in the car, and software creation is our passion. So we enjoy solving challenging problems, and providing solutions that drive the mobility ecosystem of the future vehicle, where mobility causes zero fatalities, produces low emissions, and is perceived as quality time. This is also our mission and with that, we are providing services, software technologies, and tools for the automotive industry. >> Yeah, it has been fascinating to watch software in the automotive world. You know, I'm old enough to remember that, when you used to take a car in, the first thing they did was put it up and look under the hood and everything. And now pretty much, they plug a cable into the computer and, go to the diagnostic screens before they do anything else. When we talk about autonomous vehicles, I think many people would be familiar. There's really that five stage model of going from helping to fully autonomous. Give us a little bit as to what you're seeing in the trends out there, and how this market has been mature. >> Yeah, I think, the trend in the autonomous vehicles, we are at the moment at level two level two plus to where you still assisting the driver's behavior with various functions. We are starting to be, to go towards a level three hands-off. In the next, couple of, yeah, hopefully just months or single years, and then going from there to a fully autonomous vehicle, where you not only have hands-off, but also eyes off and then hand over the complete control to the car. But since then, it will still be a path. We just heard recently the announcement of all the, that, not only the functionality within the car, but also then the legal environment needs to be in place, so that you also can check that all of the various functions can be approved. I think the first step, which we will see is that we have it in a kind of a clean room environment, which means highways so the hybrid pilot, where you have to have a kind of insured environment and you can predict certain use cases. And with that we are targeting at, with the next generation of the cars, which can help in one or two years. >> Yeah its really interesting stuff, because of course, you know, it would be really simple if we had nothing, but the autobahn with nothing but autonomous vehicles. I'm sure you can have that running perfectly today, but number one, you start going on different roads and number two, you add that ever unpredictable human element when you have the cars that aren't, on the same system that can cause some issues there. I'm curious, anything from a European standpoint, you know, what's the partnership between government and industry on that, and I guess anything else that's different about Europe then maybe what we'd see in North America? >> Yeah, I think the, one of the biggest differences here is as soon as authorities approve cars, then the liability goes to the authority. And America's there is a complete different behavior in that perspective, liability is taken completely by the companies and the debt, of course. Although there are authorities to control certain environment, but the main liability issue stays with the company itself. And this per se is a complete different approach for that. I think technology-wise, we are here and there, on the same level as on the same technology level. And as you can see already in today's drive assistance functions, technology-wise, we are not far ahead. You can already try certain of those functions, for at least a couple of seconds, but in order to really accept and, calculate all the use cases, you need to start step by step. A highway is one of the perfect measures for that. But when you just go, I'm living here in the in Southern Germany, when you just go to an ancient city, city center, like we do have here Nuremberg, it can be really, really tricky that you consider all the specific use cases. So, here we need to optimize algorithms. The technology are also the horsepower in terms of processing load and of course, security of the census. So here is still for full autonomy still a path to go. >> Alright, so Alex, see, you're part of the keynote, here at SUSECON, obviously, you know, innovation, is a key topic as well as open force and community is a big topic of the show overall. Tell us a little bit about the partnership between Elektrobit and SUSE. >> Yeah, thank you very much for this question. This is really an exciting thing. So two companies like SUSE and Elekrobit, by the way, we have been founded here both, very, very in recent area, so no big area. So SUSE is a leader in delivering mission critical, Linux and container technologies in several industries and Elektrobit brings in the automotive experience. And what we aim for is to really provide the future software platform for automobiles that fulfills all the key requirements around openness, about reuse and, also about a huge pool of open source methodologies, and new modules so that we have a tremendous pool of, patents as well as a tremendous pool of innovation here. So this is the key topic. The automotive industry as such is changing, changing in a way that you continue to develop the technologies along the life cycle of the car in order to really enable our customers to download new functions and new services during the life cycle of the car. This methodology is already used in several other industries. And here we introduced with this partnership exactly the basis for that, in order to really, prepare our customers to focus on their differentiating technology and differentiating features. >> Yeah, fascinating thinking, you brought up, you know, the skill set of course is a key piece. Any industry that's going through change, we wonder who can come along and who's ready for that. It sounded like you were saying that, Linux and the other technologies in this space, there is a large pool of tech of knowledge out there, and that can help really kind of the growth next generation of the automotive industry. Am I getting that right? >> Yes, I mean, for sure the development methodology in open stores and embedded is completely different, but specifically when it comes to liability. So here, there, you need to comply to certain standards of cost, but this is one topic. The other thing is that really the innovation, who the innovation span you have in open source, as well as the modules already existing and the best practices from other industries. This is a tremendous advantage. And also one thing is in terms of changing in our industry, the automotive industry, the development methodology, excuse me, the reuse of, certain platforms is limited as soon as you have to jump to new generations of processes of software modules and so on and so forth. Here, we can with the partnership also leverage the experience we have, technologies which are also for a long period of time, backward compatible and reusable in the essential lower layers of the software, which you need to have by also complying to the relevant standards for a performance as well as a safety requirement. >> Yeah, really interesting mix of balancing that, differentiation in the marketplace while still being an upgradable path. I'm curious, you talked a little bit about the open source model. One of the key things, when you talk about going through a digital transformation is data. There's obviously a lot of data if you talk about autonomous vehicles. We see everybody about, you know, how many gigabytes per hour and all the maps and everything there. What is the role of data in this entire process? Is there sharing of data between some of the different players involved? >> So, yeah, data is I would say data is one is, first of all, data is in channel independent from industry the new currency. This is one thing, also realized in the automotive industry here. Of course we need to consider, certain privacy rules independent from, whether it's the car maker itself or its project or the driver. So we need to respect it, but independent from that, car's one of the most accurate sensors we do have, in our environment. And of course creating data, are we talking about one terabyte per day roundabout? And this is already now reused amongst, common factors amongst the industry. Just think about a certain, here as an acquisition of several players in the industry where they are sharing map data, because it doesn't make a difference, for a GM car, for a Ford car, for a BMW car, for a Daimler car. When you use the same road, the road stays, of course, the brand and the car changes, but the information about the road infrastructure is exactly the same. And this is the first topic which, has to be, or will be shared and is already shared. Second thing is traffic information where you have a mobile providers, in there, and this already is considered, and there are a lot of discussion and, or any business models undergoing or, in preparation for that. >> Yeah, well, you hope the roads don't change. I live in the Boston area, there's a times if you take six months off and all of a sudden you're like, wait, this road used to go a certain way. At least it's a lot easier to update, your software than it is for older vehicles that I'm driving. You talked a little bit about privacy. I know cybersecurity is one of the aspects that Elektrobit involved. Talk to us a little bit about the security aspect and, your company's experiences there. >> The security with transferring data into the car or outside of the car, data security is a key feature. It's just a must. So, in former times as Elektrobit as we are coming from inside the car has an embedded software provider. We protected really the devices within the car, for example, the automator from manipulation and, generated certain securities in the internal bus with our customers. But this is no longer enough. You need to go outside the car. So, when you transfer data from the cloud into the car, or vice versa and therefore cyber security, to predict the whole chain inside the car communication, they're all interfaces where you can connect devices or the backend, from where you transport the information. For them, recently Elektrobit acquired a company in Israel two years ago. But also we know that in the basic technology from the SUSE distribution, there is already a lot of technology in there, which makes data transfer really, really safe, sorry, secure, so that you can trust that the data and really keep the privacy you need to have for specific regions. >> Alright, well, this is a very fast moving industry. Give us a little bit as to what you see happening both the 24 months. What are some of the kind of major opportunities as well as challenges that are being faced? >> Yeah, I think, one of the biggest opportunities we will see in the upcoming directly next generation, is the car really becoming a part of the internet. I think with that, a lot of the business models from the common effector itself, from the suppliers need to change. So that really the common effector enables their customers to continuously update their device mobile device, namely the car. It's very similar to those devices at the moment from technology which you already have then suffocate in our pocket. Of course you cannot put the car into your pocket, but you want to have the same convenience, with new services, with new functions. And I think this is the most of, and the most exciting opportunity of the car. With that you need to have new technologies on platform. You need to have data security, you enable completely new business models. And this has changed our lives completely. Also our business compete. And I think these are the most important and the most exciting changes in the near future, as the next generation already is under preparation and will be launched really, really, really soon. And of course, second topic is the autonomous driving. It goes step by step as just as is testing the beginning. And this is the second opportunity then for many other companies making business with the time when the drivers then, have quality time and, can do something different than just hearing the car. >> Excellent, so much excitement in what is happening in industry. Definitely one we want to watch. Alex wannna give you the final word, SUSECON the partnership between Elektrobit and SUSE the final takeaways that you have for the event. >> Yeah, thanks enough. It's just exciting for us to have such a great partner like SUSECON experienced partner. It brings lots of new aspects into our industry helps us to provide the right solutions. And with that, we are sure that we can generate and we will generate the basis of the next smart cars of our customer in terms of softer platform. Thank you very much. >> Alex, thank you so much for joining us. I'm Stu Miniman, I'll have more coverage here from SUSECON DIGITAL '20. Thank you for watching theCube. (bright music)

>> Announcer: From around the globe, it's theCUBE, with coverage of SUSECON Digital, brought you by SUSE. (upbeat music) >> Welcome back. I'm Stu Miniman and this is theCUBE's coverage of SUSECON Digital. And really excited to welcome to the program a first time guest, and he's relatively fresh off the keynote, Alexander Kocher, who is the President and Managing Director of Elektrobit, talking about autonomous vehicles. Alex, thanks so much or joinin' us. >> Thank you, Stu, for inviting me. >> All right, so you know, definitely really interesting technologies, and a lot of talent. So many of the ways we talk about in the IT industry, to talk about cloud computing, edge impacting things, how AI fits into the world, and the balance between people and technology. Well, your company's living it. So why don't we start a little bit. Elektrobit, at least from the research I've done and from the keynote, you are a software company if I have it right. And autonomous vehicles is really what you're driving for. But give our audience a little bit of Elektrobit where you fit in the market today. >> Yeah, Elektrobit, so you can say we are software creatrs unlocking the future of mobility. We are pioneering software in the automotive industry since more than 30 years, empowering already now more than 1 billion devices, in hundreds of millions of cars, and serving since more than 30 years the automotive industry. So as software is becoming the second biggest enabler of the innovation in the car, we are driving this with our technologies. We are focusing on software infrastructure solutions, so coming from the deep, deep layers in the car, up to the HMI, up to the user interface, and providing there specific technologies for really building the basis, and able our customers to focus on their innovations. So this is car infrastructure software. This is software for autonomous driving, as you said. And this is application software mainly in the tooling to create fancy and good-looking user interfaces in modern vehicles. >> Yeah, wow, 30 years. You know most people don't think about software that long in the automotive industry. Of course anybody that owned a car understands that a lot of times it no longer, ya know, people going under the hood, but they're plugging something in and going on a computer, understand what that is. If you could, give us a little bit, what are the trends going on? We've been talking for the last couple a years, if you talk from an autonomous vehicle stand point. Probably people have seen the five stages model that's been put out there, everything from some driver-assist technologies, to a fully autonomous vehicle. But what are you seeing, your software, the companies you supply to and the users, what's happening there? >> So, I would class the trends at the moment in our industry in three blocks. There is electrification, where software is for sure playing a role, but is more used as a supporting technology. Here dominating innovation is coming from other technologies like battery, fuel cells, charging mechanisms, and so on. But then the second trend and the third trend, automated driving and connectivity, to really make the car part of the internet, these are two mega trends where software is dominating the scene, and really also dominating the value of the car as well. And I think these are the trends. We need for all of those to develop new car connectors, similar to server infrastructures already, so that you can seamlessly integrate applications, services from the cloud into the car. And I think these are the trends. And the partnership we are the moment working with SUSE is really coming into play as well to combine experiences from other industries, from other technologies, open source technologies with the embedded world. And create added value for our customer. >> Yeah so let's dig into that SUSE partnership a little bit. Obviously community is a big thing that's talked about there, at the show and from SUSE's customers. There's what can we learn, what is the role of open source, and how do we really enable innovation? So what's important about the partnership with SUSE? >> I think, let me give a little bit of a background. So when becoming an IT device, the amount of software, the complexity is increasing like hell. What he have at the moment, round about 10% created by software in the car, we will see 30% value created by software in 10 years from now. And this is done by a disruptive change in the development model. At the moment we stopped developing functions and features at the point when we introduce the car into the market. This will completely change. Just think about a mobile device like I have it here in my hand. During the whole life cycle of this device, which is of course much shorter than the life cycle of a car, you will innovate and update functions here. This will also be introduced in the next generation, which is under development at the moment, of cars. So that you can update applications, new services during the whole life cycle of the car. And this requires new platforms. It doesn't stop at the introduction of the car. It will continue over a real, real long period of time, years it takes, even. We have a long maintenance cycles. And therefore you need to have new partnership models, and also other technologies where this is already applied with other technologies in other industries. And here our partnership really comes into play, where we need to even get other talent pools. other pools of creativity, other pools of and forces of innovation, so that we really enable with existing methods, new methods, our customers to focus on their differentiating functions to compete against their competitor. And here exactly our partnership is targeting it. >> Okay so it sounds like we're talking specifically Linux means that there's a common underlying programming model, and that there's a skill set pool out there. Am I getting that right? >> Yes, correct. At the moment, so the automotive industry stands for reliable, high performance, high quality of cars and maintaining these features and essential functions over a long, long period of time. But when using embedded technologies, you are endangered always to re-implement it again and again and reuse is not necessarily that what is implemented here from one generation to the other, completely innovated sometimes, And here with other technologies, like you're doing with Linux for example, an open source, you open up a complete new field of innovation and creativity, and of course also access to talent pools, which is very much limited at the very moment in the embedded world as well. >> Alex, I'm curious how Elektrobit thinks about data. Number one, all the training data, how AI is done. Is there any industry sharing going on with that discussion? Let's start there and then maybe we'll talk a little bit about security when we get through the basic data points. >> (laughs) Yeah so, indeed, just think about cars. One of the most accurate sensor in our environment, with all the sensors you have, camera sensors, radio sensors, liter sensors, and so on and so forth, which create a hell lot amount of data, a terabyte by day. And of course this is something which needs to be shared, because the road infrastructure, we talked about this beforehand, is the same independent, whether it's a BMW car, whether it's a GM car, whether it's a Ford car, or a Daimler car, or a Toyota. So it's for all the cars the same car infrastructure. And of course there's a lot of discussion ongoing to share this data. Although now when making business out of that, the business model needs to, as you mentioned, for sure recognize and respect the privacy of the data in order to make business out of that. >> Excellent-- >> So then--Sorry >> Please, please continue. >> So yes, I think there is discussion ongoing. And already in, for example, in map data and traffic control, there is already ongoing the share of the data amongst the manufacturers as well. >> Excellent. And of course, security is paramount. When I look at Elektrobit, cyber security is prominent in the automotive discussion. How does that play in? What's the experience that you've had there from the security side. >> Yeah, so Elektrobit, so we built up our security, but really coming from inside the car. Now three years ago we acquired a company with out mother company together which is now integrated and consolidated within Elektrobit. It's called Argus Cyber Security from Tel Aviv in Israel. And with that we are now able to really provide solutions, end to end solutions from deep inside the car up to the cloud, so that the data stream is secure to the highest standards of security, of course. And this is, on the long side, really securing remote control, maintenance of the car, but also then privacy in terms when you download new services, when you provide information into the cloud where you are. For example we talked abut this data as new currency from the sensors existing in the car. So for that reason exactly we acquired this company with their technologies we are able to provide end to end solutions also for the existing software we are providing to our customers. >> Right, Alex, I'm curious just when you talk about autonomous vehicles, anything distinct about Europe? I think about the challenge and the opportunity. Number one, you're in Germany. You've got some of the best highways in the world. Well thought-out, really well architected. But throughout Europe you also have some the oldest cities where it could be really challenging to traverse. So anything different you might be able to share with our audience about what we should look for for that journey of autonomous vehicle in Europe? >> So... basically your question, already lined it out. So yes, I think autonomous driving and it's starting with functions like hybrid pilot so that you really create a kind of a clean room, where you have a very well-defined environment, where you can start to drive autonomous, and really hands off, eyes off, so level three, level four. In old cities, the structure is yeah, grown, grown over hundreds of years. So it's for sure not foreseen for autonomous driving, at that point in time. Or let's say at that point in time you had an autonomous vehicular horse which found all the time the stable. But nowadays it's a little bit different. So the more difficult environment is for sure the center of cities. And there it will take a while. But we are on the go by going really step by step from a very well-defined environment like a highway, where you can define certain use cases. And with the evolution of sensors, with the evolution of algorithms, with the evolution of processing power, then go step by step to a more complex environment like inner cities. >> Excellent. What should people be looking for when it comes to autonomous vehicles? What can you give us on the next 12 to 24 months, what you're expecting in the industry? >> So I think at the moment, I think in the 12 to, we're still in the face when it comes to autonomous driving, we have driver assistance functions evolving from there. A level two, level two plus. Level three functions where you really then have hands off, will probably come in two, three, four years. Here it's not only the industry by itself who is the limiting factor, but also the regulations on the outside. We just recently saw the announcement of Audi that homologation related to topics at the moment not clear. This is also to be considered. Technology is already prepared, ie, I'm now, even with driver-assistance functions, able to drive. I had an experience with my car by 200km/hr around the curve, and pulling the steers a little bit off So it's still in the face. You have to be aware that you can control. So the function itself is already existing. But homologation that you really can do this for more than 10 seconds, this is the critical thing. And really be prepared techonology for all the eventual things. So here we have limiting factors also from the regulations around that. And this is basically what we have to deal with. So just recently announced by Audi A8 in the introduction. >> Excellent stuff. All right, Alex, I want to give you the final word. Just share with the audience at SUSECON, what it means for Elektrobit to participate in this partnership. >> Yeah, I think the main thing of this partnership is really that we... We are enabled to really provide and infrastructure which fulfills the complete requirements of the car industry. So long-term maintenance, enablement of secure downloads during the whole life cycle of the car, and reusabilty, backward compatibility which is very important thing as well, when you produce technologies for products which have a very long product life cycle. And with the experience SUSE brings into play from other industries, with their solutions, with their Linux distributions and container technologies, with our experience from the automotive industry, I'm really sure that with that partnership, we enable our customers to focus on their innovations, and we enable ourselves to provide the basic solutions for the industry, and for... new future intelligent vehicles. >> All right, well, thank you so much for sharing all of the updates. Fascinating stuff. Thank you so much for joining. >> Thank you, Stu, for inviting me. >> All right, lots more coverage from SUSECON Digital '20. I'm Stu Miniman and thank you for watching theCUBE. (upbeat music)