>> Narrator: Live from San Francisco, it's theCUBE! Covering Red Hat Summit 2018. Brought to you by Red Hat. >> Hello and welcome back to theCUBE's exclusive coverage here in live in San Francisco, California, for Red Hat Summit 2018. I'm John Furrier, with John Troyer my co-host analyst this week he's the co-founder of TechReckoning Avisory Community Development Firm, of course I'm the co-host of theCUBE, and this is Harry Mower, Senior Director of Red Hat Developer Group within Red Hat. He handles all the outward community work, also making sure everyone's up to speed, educated, has all the tools. Of course, thanks for coming and joining on theCUBE today. Appreciate you coming on. >> Thanks for having me again. >> Obviously developer community is your customers. They're your users, Open Source is winning. Everything's done out in the open. That's your job, is to bring, funnel things and goods to the community. >> Harry: Yes. >> Take a minute to explain, what you do and what's going on with your role in the community for the Red Hat customers. >> Sure, so my group really handles three things. It's developer tools, our developer program, and the evangelism work that we do. So if I kind of start from the evangelism work, we've got a great group of evangelists who go out, around the world, kind of spreading the Gospel of Red Hat, so to speak, and they talk a lot about the things that are about to come in the portfolio, specific to developer platforms and tools. Then we try to get them into the program, which gives the developers access to the products that we have today, and information that they need to be successful with them. So it's very much about enterprise developers getting easy access to download and install, and get to Hello World as fast as possible, right? And then we also build tools that are tailored to our platform, so that developers can be successful writing the code once they download-- >> John F: And the goal is ultimately, get more people coding, with Linux, with Red Hat, with Open Source. >> Harry: Yep, it's driving more of, I mean from inwardly facing it's driving more adoption of our products but you know, outward, as the developer being our customer, it's really to make them successful and when I took over this role it was one of the things we needed to do was really focus on who the developer was, you know, there's a lot of different types of developers, and we really do focus on the nine to five developer that works within all of our customers' organizations, right? And predominately those that are doing enterprise jobs are for the most part, but we're starting to branch out with that, but it's really those nine to five developers that we're targeting. >> Got to be exciting for you now because we were just in Copenhagen last week for CubeCon with Kubernetes, you know, front and center, we're super excited about that's defacto formation around Kubernetes, the role of containers that's going on there, really kind of give kind of a fresh view, and a clear view, for the developer, your customer, where things are sitting. So how do you guys take that momentum and drive that home, because that's getting a lot of people excited, and also clarifying kind of what's going on. If you're under the hood, you got some Open Stack, if you're a developer, app develop you've got this, and then you've got orchestration here and you got containers. Kind of the perfect storm, for you guys. >> Harry: Yeah and what we've been trying to distribute in the container space, so one of the things we do we have these kind of 10 big bets that we put on a wall that really drive our product decisions, right? And one of the first, maybe the second one we put on the wall was, everything will be in containers, right? And so we knew that it was important for developers to be able to use containers really easily, but we also knew that it's an implementation detail for them. It's not something that they really need to learn a lot about, but they need to be able to use, so we made an acquisition last year, Code Envy was the company, driving force behind Eclipse J, one of the great features of Eclipse J, a lot of people see it as a web based IDE, but it's also a workspace management system, that allows developers' development environments to be automatically containerized, hosted and run on Open Shift at scale, right? And when we show the demo it's really interesting because people see us coding in a browser and "Oh that's pretty neat", and then at the end of it everyone starts to ask questions about the browser part, and I say, "Yeah, but did you notice we never typed a docker command, never had to learn about a Kubernetes file, it was always containerized right from the very beginning, and now your developers are in that world without having to really learn it". And so that's really a big big thing that we're trying to do with our tools, as we move from classic Eclipse on the desktop to these new web based. >> So simplifying but also reducing things that they normally had to do before. >> Yeah. >> Using steps to kind of. >> Yeah, we want to, people don't like when I say it, I don't want to try make them disappear into the background but what I mean is it's simple and easy to use. We take care of the creative room. >> Now is that, that's OpenShift.io? Is that where people get started with that? >> Actually Eclipse J. >> Okay, Eclipse J, okay. >> So it starts in Eclipse J, and then we take that technology and bring it into io as well. >> Gotcha gotcha, can you take a little bit about io then? You know, the experience there, and what people are doing. >> Sure, yeah so io is a concept product that we released last, well we announced last year at Summit. It's really our vision of what an end to end cloud tooling platform is going to look like. Our bet is that, many of our customers today take a lot of time to customize their integrated tool chains, because of necessity, because someone doesn't offer the fully integrated seamless one today. Many of our customers like their little snowflakes that they built, but I believe over time, that the cost of maintaining that will become something that they're not going to like, and that's one of the reasons why we built something like io. It's hosted managed by us, and integrated. >> And what are people using it for? Is this for prototyping, is this, what are people doing on the system? >> Today it's mostly for prototyping, one of the things we did here at this week's Summit is we announced kind of a general availability for Java developer using public repose. Up until this point it's always kind of been experimental. You weren't sure if your data was going to be gone if it was up or down, there's much more stability and kind of a more reliable SLA right now for those types of projects. >> John T: Gotcha, gotcha. Well, I mean, pivoting maybe to the overall developer program, so developers.redhat.com, big announcement yesterday, you reached a million members, congratulations. >> Harry: Thank you very, yeah, thanks a million is what I put in my tweet. It's been a really great journey, I started it three years ago, we consolidated a number of the smaller programs together, so we had a base of about two, 300 ish developers, and we've accelerated that adoption, now we're over a million and growing fast, so it's great. >> What's the priorities as you go on? I mean all of these new tools out there and I was just talking with someone, one of your partners here, we were out at a beer thing last night, got talking and like waterfall's dying in software development but Open Source ethos is going into other areas. Marketing, and so the DevOps concepts are actually being applied to other things. So how are you taking that outreach to the community, so as you take the new Gospel, what techniques do you use? I mean, you're tweeting away, you going in with blogging, content marketing, how are you engaging the content, how are you getting it out in digital? >> Our key thing is the demo, right? So you saw a lot of great demos on stage this week, Burr Sutter on our team did a phenomenal job every day with a set of demos, and we take those demos, those are part of the things we bring to all the other conferences as well, they become the center stage for that, because it's kind of the proof of concept, right? It's the proof of what can be possible, and then we start to build around that. And it helps us show it's possible, it actually helps get our product teams coelest around our idea, they start to build better products, we bring that to customers, and then customer engagement starts early, but that's the key of it. >> I mean demos the ultimate content piece, right? >> It forces everybody to, on the scene-- >> Real demo, not a fake demo. >> And those were all real, that's the thing the demos are so good I think some of them people thought they were fake. I'm like Burr you didn't do a good enough job of like pulling the plug faster, and showing it was real, right? But they're, yes, they're absolutely real demos, real technology working, and that creates a lot of momentum around. >> You guys see any demographics shifts in the developers, obviously there's a new wave of developers coming in, younger certainly, right? You get the older developers that know systems, so you're seeing coexistence of different demographics. Old and young, kind of playing together. >> Yeah, so there's a full spectrum of ages, a full spectrum of diversity, and geography, I mean, it's obvious to everybody that our growing markets are Asia, it's India and China right now. You'll see, you know, Chinese New Year we see a dip in usage in our tools, you know, it's very much, that's where the growth is. Our base right now is still predominately North America and EMIA, but all the growth is obviously Asian and-- >> John T: (mumbles). Harry I wanted to talk about the role of the developer advocate a little bit. It's a relatively new role in the ecosystem, not everybody understands it, I think some companies use a title like that in very different ways, can you talk, it's so important, this peer to peer learning, you know, putting a human face on the company, especially for a company like Red Hat, right? Built from Open Source communities from the ground up. Can you talk a little bit about what is a developer advocate, and am I even getting the title right? But what do they do here at Red Hat? >> Yeah so it's funny, so an evangelist is an advocate, and how do you distinguish the difference? So I spend a lot of time at Microsoft, you know, I think they pioneered a lot of that a long time ago, 10 or 12 years ago, really started doing that, and those ideas have matured, many different philosophies of how you do it. I bring a philosophy here and at work and with Burr, that, you know, it's one thing to preach the Gospel, but the end goal is to get them into Church, right? And eventually get them to, you know, donate, right? So, our evangelists are really out there to convince and you know, get them to adopt. Other models where you're an advocate, it's about funneling, it's almost like a marketing, inbound marketing kind of role, where you're taking feedback from the developers and helping to reshape the product. We do a little bit of that, but it's mostly about understanding what Red Hat has, 'cause when people look at Red Hat they think that's the Linux I used to use, I started in college, right? And for us we're trying to transform that view. >> John F: Huge scope now. >> And that's why we're more of an evangelistic organization. >> I mean Linux falls in the background I mean with cloud. Linux, isn't that what the old people used to like install? Like, it's native now. So again, new opportunities. And Open Shift is a big part of that. >> Yeah and we work hand in hand, there's actually an Open Shift evangelism team that we work hand in hand with, and their job is really more of a workshop style engagement, and get the excitement, bring them to that, and then do the engagements and bring it in. >> John F: What's the bumper sticker to developers? I mean obviously developer's mind sheer is critical. So they got to see the pitch of Linux helps a lot, it's all about the OS, what's the main value proposition to the developers that you guys are trying to have front and center the whole time? >> Harry: For Red Hat specific? >> Yeah yeah. >> It's funny, we just redid all of our marketing about the program, and specifically it's build here, go anywhere. And for two levels, right? With using Red Hat technologies, being part of the Open Source community, you can take those skills and knowledge and go anywhere in your career, right? But also with our technology, you can take that, and you can run it anywhere as well. You can take that technology and run it roll on prem, run it on someone else's cloud, and it really is just, we, you know, we really give the developers a lot of options and possibilities, and when you learn our products and use our products, you can really go anywhere. >> So Harry there's a, I loved how you distinguished at the very beginning of the conversation who the program is for, and that particular role, right? I sit down and I code enterprise products and glue stuff together and build new things, bring new functionality to the market, shit, excuse me, this week has been all about speed to market, right? And that's the developers out there, right? See I get so excited about it. >> That's okay, you can swear. >> (mumbles) >> But you know, there's a lot of shifting roles in IT, and the tech industry, over the last, say, decade or so, you know, do we spec the people who we used to call system mins, do they have to become developers? Open Source contributors also are developers. But it sounds like maybe the roles are clarifying a little bit, other than, you know, an Open Shift operator, you know, doesn't have to be a developer, but does have to be, know about APIs and things, how are you looking at it? >> I don't have too strong an opinion on this, but when I talk to other people and we kind of talk about it, you know the role of the, so we made operations easy enough that developers can do a lot of it, but they can't do all of it, right? And there's still a need for operations people out there, and those roles are a lot around being almost automation developers. Things that you do like an (mumbles) playbook or, you know, what other technology might use, so there is an element of operations people having to start to learn how to do some sort of coding, but it's not the same type of that a normal developer will do. So somehow we're meeting in the middle a little bit. But, I'm so focused on the developer part that I really don't have too strong an opinion. >> Well let us know how we can help, we love your mission, theCUBE is an open community brand, we love to get any kind of content, let us know when your big events are, I certainly want to promote it sir. Open Source is one, it's winning, it's changing and you're starting to see commercialization happen in a nice way, where projects are preserved upstream, people are making great products out of it, so a great opportunity for careers. And building great stuff, I mean new application start-ups, it's all over the place so it's great stuff, so congratulations and thanks for coming on theCUBE. It's theCUBE, out in the open here in the middle of the floor at Moscone West, bringing all the covers from Red Hat Summit 2018. We'll be right back with more after this short break, I'm John Furrier, with John Troyer, we'll be right back. (electronic music)