>> Narrator: Live from Boston, Massachusetts, it's theCUBE, covering ZertoCON 2018. Brought to you by Zerto. >> This is theCUBE, I'm Paul Gillin. We're here at ZertoCON 2018, Hynes Convention Center in Boston. The final day of ZertoCON, and a lot of talk about partnership at this conference, and one of Zerto's key partners is IBM. Daniel Witteveen is a vice president of resiliency services portfolio at IBM, and I guess the manager of the Zerto relationship from IBM's perspective, is that so? >> Yeah, so I have responsibility for IBM's Resiliency Portfolio. Which includes disaster recovery as a service, backup as a service, data migration services. As well as we do a lot around site and facilities design, construction, and build. So specifically around DRaaS and what you heard today going into the backup world, our backup-as-a-service offering, Zerto's been a partner of ours since 2016. >> Now DRaaS, I think of, is certainly, has been around, disaster recovery has been around for a long time. How much of that business has moved into the cloud now and become a service? >> There's still a very large segment of the population that's doing traditionally DR, but that is moving rapidly to a more automated function. Now, the challenge our customers are faced with is not all workload is cloud ready. So we have a partnership with Zerto for all that cloud-ready workload, using them, but we also combine the Zerto technology into our orchestration software, which handles the full recovery of non-cloud workload IT. So, think about multiple platforms, think about multiple clouds, think about multiple data movers and replicators. We can orchestrate that entire recovery process using Zerto for the virtual environment. >> Talking to executives here today, we don't hear a lot about recovery, we hear a lot about resilience. How ready, how many of your customers are really in that position where they're thinking resilience is never going down as opposed to recovery from a failure? >> So, the goal is to be as close to no outage as possible. But in lieu of recent cyber incidents in cyber-related attacks, the conversation for our clients has shifted to true business resilience. Right, so we have a business resilience conversation verse an IT resilience conversation. Business resilience clearly includes IT, but when you talk about a malicious cyber-related attack, which will cause disruption which'll cause outage, which'll cause data corruption, you're always-on-never-be-out-age viewpoint changes a bit. So, our clients are having a lot of discussions with us around changing the way we think about IT resilience in light of a cyber-related incident. >> Well security, the fastest growing business at IBM is security, how closely do you work with these people in that group? >> Very closely, we've combined, if you're familiar with the NIST Framework around cyber resiliency, you know that there's a lot of effort from our security services around identification and prevention. But what happens when it gets through all that and actually causes and outage, right? So we've partnered very close together on how do you recover and restore, right, using technologies from resiliency services while you try to prevent and detect for true resiliency. >> Talk about the history of the relationship. It's only been a couple years, but how did you first become aware of Zerto and why were they chosen as part of the portfolio? >> Yeah, that's a very good question. So, Zerto started relationship with IBM Cloud. I think at the time it was probably called SoftLayer or Bluemix, right? >> Paul: Yes, it Was probably. >> And that started right as a mechanism to provide DRaaS in a very simple version on IBM Cloud. And the benefits IBM Cloud provided at that time, and still do today, is true hypervisor access to Zerto. And that's been very attractive to Zerto clients because a version of Zerto on-prem is the same as in the cloud, and that's a unique capability for us. But also, another value point was that the data replication between our data centers is free to the customer, so think about the cost structure when it comes to bandwidth. If the customer's moving production in one cloud, in one data center of IBM Cloud, and wants to do recovery out of region, another IBM data center, all that data transfer is included. Right, that's an amazing value prop. But when we're having those discussions with our clients, it expanded to, well, that's nice, that answers this section of my workload. What about all this? And that's really where the relationship blossomed with our integration of orchestration to handle the full IT estate really focusing on hybrid IT. >> Of course, hybrid IT is really the sweet spot for IBM-- >> Daniel: It is. >> How does resilience fit into. The sweetest services that you're offering customers now, is this sort of a core service? Resilience, is a core service of the IBM Hybrid Solution? >> Yeah, absolutely, so within global technology services, it's one of three key plays, resiliency. And if you think of us as a very large outsourcing firm, clients are dependent on us providing these services to them, so it is very significant, as the nature of all of our conversations, any kind of managed service, the default expectation of our client is that it's resilient. >> And, would you say that the clients have understand and really internalized this idea of resilience? Or are they still not quite sure what it all means? >> I would say there's, clients vary brainly. The regulatory clients and the clients that are most potentially exposed to negative publicity as a result of a cyber attack are much more aware and in tune. I will tell you also in lieu of cyber, and it was part of the conversation on that panel yesterday, you're talking about a very different way to respond to an outage. Which is creating a lot of dialogue within our clients of what does it truly mean to be resilient. So it's driving a conversation. They used to be siloed: maybe in IT, maybe in the risk officer or maybe in the CISO. It is bringing them now altogether, and say, we've got to work much stronger together to be resilient. >> We hear a lot of talk about multi-cloud. Is it mostly talk or are you seeing customers really adopt? Are they excited about adopting multiple public clouds? >> I would probably draw a parallel to, did a client ever use one platform, right? And they do. And so clients are very in tune to want to have multiple options. It is very rare today that I go into a client that's single cloud oriented. They'll start single cloud, but they're going to want the flexibility to be multi-cloud. And we want to make sure when we orchestrate their disaster recovery, or even their backup or any of our other offerings, that that can be seamless, that they can move from one cloud to another cloud for whatever reason, maybe it's financial, maybe it's location, maybe it's capability. We want to be able to seamlessly provide that interaction. >> Now AWS and Azure are never going to play nicely together, Where does IBM fit into that matrix? Are you a Switzerland between all these public clouds? >> Well, so we have our own. >> Yes, of course. >> Within IBM Cloud, we'll talk about our strength and our size in the enterprise relative to those providers. But as a services entity, we will continue to be (mumbles). Our shareholders great to be using IBM Cloud. But certainly if a solution or a customer dictates another solution, we would be fine with that. >> Paul: What do your customers ask you about backup these days? Where is backup going? >> How can you do it for me, so I don't have to do it? >> Because it's so painful. (laughing) >> That's our probably biggest use case is customers recognize it's not a core competency. The data explosion has just, they can't handle it anymore. They're buying storage everyday. And they're going there's got to be a better way. And our conversation with customers around backup is let us be your better way. We will provide the infrastructure. We'll provide the label. We'll provide the software. We'll provide the architectural positioning. And we'll focus on providing you the business outcome that you need relative to that offer. >> Would you say the backup is rapidly going to move to the cloud or do you think on-prem backup is going to be around for a long time? >> It's a good question. Unfortunately, as it depends the answer is. For the smaller companies and the remote offices, going directly to cloud makes complete sense. When you have a high-change rate and you have a lot of storage volume, your decision will become where do I need to recover or how do I need to access that data? And maybe that's best suited on-prem. Once (mumbles) in the cloud, maybe that's suited in cloud. I think long term, they'll ultimately sit in the cloud, but there's still a massive amount of storage and customers prefer a massive amount of that to be on-prem. >> In a multi-cloud world, is resilience more difficult to ensure? Or is it easier? >> Way more complex. Way more complex, because if you think about, what 10 years ago, you had site A and site B, site A went down, you're worried about site B. Very easy. One failure case. Now our clients have not only multi-cloud, they have multiple locations, remote offices, back offices. They have multiple software-as-a-service providers. And so our view is, you have to look at the business process resiliency. If you have one system that goes down in a software-as-a-service provider, how does that impact you business process? Can it still work? And how do you make it work in the event that one of those components fail? So it's a lot more complex because you're not just thinking about A and B, you're thinking about 10 different failure scenarios, 20 different scenarios, and making sure that doesn't interrupt the business process. >> The quest for simplicity, IT always seems to become more complex. >> What's interesting is every evolution of technology, which increases redundancy, reliability, the first sense is, well, then I don't need as much resiliency, and every change of technology consolidates that risk, and therefore resiliency becomes that much more important. >> Good job security. Daniel Witteveen, thanks very much for joining us from IBM. >> Excellent, as always, I appreciate being here. Thank you. >> I'm Paul Gillin. That's it for us here at ZertoCON 2018. This is theCUBE. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas it's theCUBE covering Veritas Vision 2017. Brought to you by Veritas. (upbeat techno music) >> Everybody this is theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. And we're here covering Veritas Vision. The hashtag is Vtas, v-t-a-s vision. Little bit of a funny hashtag so make sure you get that one right if you want to follow all of the action. I'm Dave Vellante with my co-host this week Stu Miniman. Michelle VanAmburg is here. She's the Director of Global Alliances for Veritas. And she's joined by Daniel Witteveen who is the Vice President of Global Portfolio Resiliency Services at IBM. Folks, thanks for coming on theCUBE. >> Thanks for having us. >> Thank you for having us. >> Michelle, let's start with you. Alliances are a fundamental component of Veritas' strategy. You got to make friends with a lot of different people. What's your general philosophy around alliances? Let's start there. >> Yeah, well specially with IBM, we've had a long term alliance starting back in 2004, around backup and managed services. It's evolved into a very strategic alliance with IBM providing both internal IT support to migrate our key applications into their Bluemix and IBM cloud infrastructure. And then also, evolving the managed service around backup strategically moving into the cloud. We announced something in March to work on backup in the cloud with IBM as part of their Bluemix services. So, each and every partner in alliances has specific strengths and weaknesses. And I think with IBM we're maximizing our partnership around their strengths and that's the services and their play in the enterprise market. We both have about 86% overlap among those customers. >> So, I mean, this is interesting, Daniel, I mean IBM big technology company, huge product portfolio, some of the products competitive with Veritas, but you're part of the services organization so you've got to have the customer's interest first. You guys are sort of technology agnostic generally as a services professional. So, what's your philosophy with regard, maybe I just laid it out, but with regards specifically to data protection and back up? >> So, you said exactly right. We measure ourselves against the business outcomes for our clients. And that truly is vendor agnostic. But when you take a partnership like Veritas, and if you saw the keynotes this morning, they were talking about the leader in the Magic Quadrant for the last several years. IBM's also been the leader in resiliency and in security. So, that's an unparalleled partnership that you can't get from anywhere else. You've got a services firm that can take their software, provide a high-valued outcome to their clients, our clients or mutual clients, and provide it in the cloud. And that could be our cloud, that could be another provider's cloud. Very significant for our clients. >> So, every time we go to these shows you hear about digital transformation. And it's an important topic but sometimes putting meat on the bones is hard. So, let's try to do that. I presume you're hearing this same thing from your joint customers. We got to become a digital business. You hear that from the top. So, what does that mean to your customers? What does it mean to become a digital business? >> So, for me I think a lot of people say that in the context of a one time event. We have to go through digital transformation. >> Voilà! >> Yeah, or suddenly, "Whoo-hoo! We're there!" (laughter) And that's a big, wide definition of what that could mean. I think it's continual transformation. It's innovation. That's a buzz word to me that says, okay, yeah this creates the conversation that's a door opener. But we really have to talk about evolving transformation, cognitive learning, using IBM Watson, always making us better. It's not laying out here's what we're doing and walk away. It has to be continual. >> Can you add anything to that, Michelle? What are your thoughts on digital? We think digital means data. >> Michelle: Mmm-hmm. >> You guys, all we heard this morning is how you're the sort of center of the data universe. What are you hearing from customers on digital? >> Well, I think we're all, including us, Veritas internally struggling with the same thing, right? How do you get there? How do you save cost over time? And how do you keep your business running with all the governance and compliance regulations that are coming down, like GDPR? So, there are a lot of challenges coming out of a lot of these organizations. And I think it takes not only somebody that's the leader in technology, like Veritas, but then it takes somebody who's the system integrator who is monitoring the outcomes for their customers over time. If you look at all the large accounts that IBM manages, we have a huge play for Veritas technology and use of those products in those accounts. So, I think it takes more than just a point, product, or a point in time like Daniel mentioned. It really takes an evolution over time, and a solid plan that can be, again, flexible as GDPR regulations come down the pike. How do we move with the times? How do we manage those outcomes for our customers to be cost effective so that we can keep their business and grow it too. >> Daniel, did you want to comment on that one? >> Yeah, I mean, we mentioned GDPR which I think is kind of the biggest event. It's going to be the Y2K of 2018, right? It's massively significant. But if you throw that under the compliance bucket, we really think about what does that mean for our clients and protecting our clients with those compliance requirements. When you look at IBM and Veritas, our partnership has extensively talked about, Bill Coleman was talking this morning about meeting with the two largest banks. IBM covers 75% of the top 35 banks. We get regulation. That's our job. Customers look for us to lead that example. We have 80% of the Fortune 100 across multiple industries. So, when you combine these technologies together, you combine that regulation overlay, which we have to know not just for one customer but across all of our customers. It's really unmatched. >> So, in addition to kind of the governance piece, what about security? It's been something in my whole career. Used to get a lot of lip service. Today, it's board level discussion. Everybody's handling it. Resiliency services have to believe covers that as well as kind of traditional BCDR type activity. >> Yeah, we define that under cyber resiliency. And that is really going from everything from direct protection all the way to outage to recovery. And I think a lot of customers are struggling with that. We did a study with Ponemon Institute back in May, and 68 of their respondents said they lacked actually reliable foundational way to recover against a cyber attack. And when you really think about it everyone's been in the news over the last several months. You have to respond to that very differently than a hurricane outage or what people think of a disaster recovery which I struggle with that name because it's really any kind of outage. So, cyber resiliency is key. In fact, we have a session tomorrow at 12:30 specifically, talking about our combined approach against cyber resiliency starting from threat protection deterrence. But more importantly when the outage occurs how do you make sure you're actively responding? You're not out for hours, days, and months. You're really, truly out for minutes. >> Michelle, anything around ransomware, the cyber resiliency piece? How does Veritas look at partnering with companies like IBM for these solutions? >> Since we've broken off from Symantec, and we had a lot of security and data protection that was combined, we really look for our partners, like IBM, to to provide a lot of that security specific services around our product. So, one of the things that Daniel had developed, is the cyber resilience offer that we are looking to our joint customers to provide specifically a short engagement around that to help them. So, really, we are starting to look to our partners to offer that security service. >> So, I'm a little bit of an industry historian, mainly cause I'm old. (Michelle laughs) And so, when I look back 1983 when Veritas got started, and we heard today that Veritas has been a leader in the Magic Quadrant for 15 years. So, you had the the PC era, which changed backup when the pendulum swung from mainframe mini to PC. And then obviously clients server evolved that and then virtualization business change that. So, you saw backup evolve, and obviously Veritas stayed with that as a leader throughout. Now, we come to digital business and cloud. And when you think of digital business and cloud, I'm interested in the impacts that it's having on data protection. I think of distributed data, analytics, edge computing, the cloud itself. Whole different set of technologies and processes and skillsets to manage data protection. So, I wonder if you could bring that back to the customer. How are they re-architecting their businesses around, specifically, the data protection side of the business. >> So, I think the first, and we saw this with virtualization we saw it with storage area networks. And we saw it with cloud. The first instinct and the first sales point is well, then I don't need DR. I don't need backup. And it's kind of this false sense of or "I have an SLA, so I'm covered." Which an SLA is just a penalty. It doesn't mean you're covered at all, right? So, we've seen that at every kind of hurdle in our business. But then what we've seen, when you saw storage and virtualization is probably a perfect example, When it's more consolidated, your risk is a lot more condensed. So, before you could have one server outage. You might never have known. But now you have an entire virtual system SAN or even a cloud. We've seen that in the press just being out. It's much more significant. So, customers are taking a lot more serious look at how they're architecting those solutions, making sure their not reliant on one of those consolidated entities. Do I have my data in the cloud? Do I have a way to have that data out of the cloud? Can I run in this cloud, maybe that cloud, on-prem, hybrid IT? Hear that a lot from IBM. But how can I diversify? Which is a very different way of architecting solutions when you've just had client server. >> Stu: Right. Okay, anything you could add to that Michelle, just in terms of what customers are asking you? And specifically, how it might relate to some of your partnerships. >> Michelle: Yeah. >> Maybe, no offense, but broader even than IBM. >> Yeah, from a broader perspective we're seeing all the cloud providers in the market, and we're partnering with all of them at Veritas. Each one of them has their strength. And if you look across our partners, and I've been integral in some of our accounts. Some of them are doing things just as simple as snapshots. They don't have a way to index. They have a hard time recovering. Things like that. Our customers are really on that high end. So, as Daniel mentioned, we have a lot of overlap in the Fortune 1,000. And they are looking for ways to recover their data like they did on-prem but they're moving to the cloud. So, our solutions together, with IBM, are really those heavy-duty enterprise solutions that allow them to have the data recovery, same times RTO, RPO. And also, the disaster recovery programs and the security around those high-end applications that have all the compliance around them. So, from my point of view, IBM's a key partner in that space to allow those highly regulated customers to have the same type of data protection. >> So historically, you guys are in the insurance business. It's a great business, no question. And I always ask, is data an asset or a liability? And the answer is both. But if you had the value pie. Clearly, the pendulum is swinging and things are evolving. Is data still more of a liability in your world than it is an asset? >> Daniel: So, our CEO said it best, data is the new natural resource. So, data is the number one important thing within the customer environment. Without it you don't have intelligence. You don't have machine learning. You don't have predictive outage. You don't have sales force automation. All that is reliant on data. So, it's more critical. Where you could argue it becomes a liability is when you have to be compliant and you have to have that data for the next number of years. A lot of people like to promote backup success. Well, that's nice if you can back it up but can you restore it? Can you make that data active? So, that's where it can be treated as a liability but there's no way I would say it's a liability over an asset. It's absolutely the number one asset in a business. >> Stu: You would Agree, I presume? >> Yeah, I would agree. And we always use the iceberg analogy. The data that you really need is just at the tip of the iceberg above the water. And then you have all this data hidden under the water. How do you make that secure, and understand what you have? And so, I think the analytics, and some of the data protection, and the tiering, the understanding what you readily need available versus what can be archived and stored in the lower cost tier is really important. >> So, where do you guys want to take this relationship? When you sit down ... Give us a little inside baseball here. Where do you see this going over the next 18 to 24 months? >> Daniel: It's only going to be stronger. A lot of conversations in the works about doing a lot more strategic relationships together. I'll leave it as that. We've been very healthy partners for over 11 years, you mentioned 2004 timeframe, I think. We have folks on my development team that are a integral part of Veritas' product offering. Very important to the feedback loop. And vice versa the managed service. So, I think that's going to get tighter. I think that's going to expand just beyond backup. And I'm really looking forward to those possibilities. >> Yep. >> Michelle? So, I'm really excited about our cloud partnership that we announced in March. I see IBM as a key to allowing Veritas to leap into that market, and to provide the enterprise strength solutions. And just really excited about our future. >> Stu: Great. All right, well thank you very much. Good luck with your partnership. >> Michelle: Thank you. >> Daniel: Excellent. >> All right, keep it right there, everybody. We'll be back with our next guest. We're live at Veritas Vision 2017 in Las Vegas. This is theCUBE. Be right back. >> Daniel: Excellent >> Michelle: Awesome, guys. (upbeat techno music)