(upbeat music) >> From around the globe, it's theCUBE, with coverage of KubeCon and CloudNativeCon Europe 2020, virtual brought to you by Red Hat. The Cloud Native Computing Foundation and ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back I'm Stu Miniman and this is theCUBEs coverage of KubeCon, CloudNativeCon the Europe 2020 virtual edition. Of course, even before 2020 security was one of the top concerns out there, with everyone working from home, some of the ramifications what's happening. Security is even more heightened and something we've had great pleasure digging into in this cloud native ecosystem. Happy to welcome to the program first time guest and first time we've had CyberArmor on theCUBE, so welcome Ben Hirschberg who's the co-founder and vice president of R&D. Ben thank you so much for joining us. >> (mumbles) Thank you for having me Stu. Thank you. >> All right so you know Ben 10 years ago when I became an analyst, security was one of those things that if you look at security and management overall, it's uh, these are the things we need to fix in IT. Unfortunately a decade later, it's still something that I can say. So if you could just frame for us a little bit as one of the co-founders of the company, what was the why for CyberArmor, what did you see out in the marketplace, what was some of the core competencies that you and your team had that made you form the company? >> Yeah, so it's a really good question because three years ago when we started look around, in the cyber industry and we're really looking into what's happening today because CyberArmor was founded by veterans of the industry. And we were looking into what part of the chain was missing in the security field. And we saw one of the key components which is even today is missing and we're coming in to solve it, is the component of the software itself. I mean we're really looked for many many years as just you said, we looked into the field and we so firewalls and segments and perimeters, and we saw authentication of users, and this is the most important aspects of cybersecurity. And we saw that there is a big change in the field because today the systems are so elastic, so changing, so much many new components went into the field and so much is changing that we've seen it. We cannot still build our security upon the old infrastructure we had before. And we went into the most common denominator you have in the field and it's the software. Because if you're looking into what you're trying to protect today, obviously you try to protect your data and your data is sitting behind some kind of software. And usually the software is running some kind of an infrastructure which is in the old world it was a data center, today we're advancing things into the cloud. And between two steps came into the new kind of containerization and cloud native infrastructure. Which really changes the whole way we are looking into how to run our software today. And we still did the... Most common denominator is the software itself. So what we call workloads. And we said that well, if I need to protect something, I need to protect the workload. And I run to protecting the way that I don't really care who is running it and where it's being run. But I am in our case we are also SAS provider for security solution. When I'm running my workloads, I want to be in control, and this is the thing we are targeting. We are targeting giving the one who's writing the software, the one who is deploying the software, the owner of service, giving him let's say the keys and only to him and no one else. >> All right, so Ben if I hear you right, is that then the application developer is the one that's interacting with your software and using it, obviously the DevOps movement really rallied around telling people that security can't be an afterthought it needs to be something baked into the process. Recently DevSecOps is a term that we hear used quite a bit so who are the people that are involved will help us understand a little bit really the organizational impact of what you're doing. >> So today we see our world really gravitating towards development and DevOps. I mean I see DevOps as an integral part of the development because we don't want to create a different organization to handle these kind of deployment things. If I have a group who's in charge of all the service, I want this group to handle the service from A to Z. And we are targeting not really the developers in sense that we are not integrating the software with APIs, but we are integrating our solution through the deployment tools. So in order to use our solution which is actually a software identity based control plane. You don't need to integrate it with your software you're developing. We can take any kind of software anyone wrote. And we can integrate it with the system using a cloud native techniques like Kubernetes integration, so it's really who is going to interface with our solution is more DevOps and set DevOps as you mentioned. >> All right, Ben when I look at your website, you talked quite a bit about the integration, you mentioned Kubernetes of course we're here at the cloud native conference, so what integrations, how much work is there to do to integrate with the various Kubernetes platforms, how do you tie into things like service meshes, are there any other of the dozens and dozens of projects that the CNCF has out there that your team needs to be involved in integrating with? >> So we took a really... It's interesting phrase but we took an Orthodox approach here where we said that we want to integrate with the core features of Kubernetes only. Because from our perspective we don't want to bring in other solutions into the service-based what our customers are having. So therefore we are integrating ourselves only with the Kubernetes core components and literally installation of our system takes a second, and which is virtual because Kubernetes itself is such a good solution that such a good project that literally installations and all setups are taking no time. And we are bringing our own service to service authentication control plane. We're on an early stage startup, and we are looking into developing our solutions to integrate with the service mesh also at a later phase, bring our security on board. Also they're the missing chain in the security which the service mesh was missing. Because we simply see that there're really great products and really great solutions there so we want to enable our customers to enjoy all they can, but without compromising their security. >> All right, your product itself, what's the relationship with open source? Many of the companies we've seen doing security, have open source projects, you when the event is in person, you walk around the show floor, and open source is a big piece of this community here, so what's your relationship when it comes to open source? >> It's really interesting question because I actually also offer... Many of our founders came from the direction not from the open source but from classical closed source companies. And personally this is due to simply the sensitivity of security field and there're historical reasons for that but I myself and some of our key people have always gave into our open source and took part in many open source projects in the past. As a company CyberArmor looks into open source as something very very valuable. We are really looking into how we can interact and how we can open source parts of our solution, which can interest other companies and other people because everyone of us knows that there are two main reasons to open source. One is it shows some kind of transparency, and the other is to let others enjoy also your project and take part in it. So right now at this stage we have only a few open source parts of our system, which are more... We have open sourced them for transparency reasons. But we're really looking into that criteria we're looking into how we could take some parts of our system and make it generally available because we think it's a good idea. >> All right, Ben what can you tell me about your customers, oftentimes if you've got an example even if it's anonymized, helps explain the value proposition of what your company is offering. >> Okay. Where to start? One of our first customers is a big service provider, BTC service provider, which is a well known company and this company really had high security expectations from the cloud native systems. And they tried many solutions they wanted to protect their services and their internal service to service communication. And they simply after a few trials they tried our solution and understood that our solution has also big benefits from the security side and outside from the performance side, therefore they decided to go with CyberArmor in order to protect their... Ease fast communications within their systems. Another company which is a B2C company Simply it's deploying it's system in a cloud infrastructure which they're less rely on and less feel secure because of legal reasons, and therefore they decided to use CyberArmor to completely protect their services and not just the communication between the services, but also the intellectual property that they have within their services in order to protect themselves. This is a very interesting use case because they're simply, I think one of the biggest beyond Google and Facebook and the big companies we know, customers we know. They are one of the biggest cloud users I know. So they really have a very interesting scale of going from way from 3000 notes in Kubernetes spanning up to within a few hours to 200 thousands notes scale, which was very interesting experience for us because as a new startup this is how you are trying your system out and prove that your solution is indeed made for the clouds. And we're really happy to say that we passed this phase. >> All right. Well, Ben, since you have the R&D component in your role, give us a little bit of an insight as to the things you're working on, what you see as some of the big challenges that security in this space need to be addressing a little bit further down the road. >> So there're two big things which we are working on and I think that's two interesting parts of the security question cause one part is that no one of us really like to pay more for security. We don't like to pay for it. Once just we have it, it's something you want to be there, but you don't want to know about it. And when we are talking about even hearing (mumbles) we are talking about simple things like moving from clear communications to TLS and right away understand that it costs us money. And one of our biggest goals here is to add security without having excessive costs toward the service provider. And we really are trying to improve our system and make them more performing in the sense that they should take as less toll on services they can in order to provide the security. And the other big part is runtime security because our solution is making sure that your workload which you're running in your system is being the same workload throughout the whole runtime process just as you wanted to be. And in order to do that, we're taking what we call code DNA in the CI/CD of our customers. And we understand how these workload should work. And in runtime, make sure that this workload is not changing maliciously and the same behavior stays as it shouldn't be. And this is something we are really improving because we're looking into the newest texts coming from many many directions, and we want to incorporate that in our solutions and make sure that you can throughout the whole runtime process of your workloads, we can keep you secure and safe. And this you know this is very interesting work, and as someone who is a veteran of cybersecurity and a white hat hacker of myself in my previous jobs, I see this as something really interesting and really evolving today. >> All right, well Ben Hirschberg thanks so much for introducing our community to CyberArmor, great catching up with you. >> Yeah I was glad to be here, thank you very much. >> All right, and thank you. Stay tuned for more coverage of KubeCon, CloudNativeCon, I'm Stu Miniman thanks for watching. (soft music)