>> Narrator: Live, from Nice, France. It's theCUBE. Covering .NEXT Conference 2017 Europe. Brought to you by Nutanix. (techno music) >> Welcome back, I'm Stu Miniman and this is SiliconANGLE Media's production of theCUBE. Happy to have a welcome back to the program, CEO and Founder of Nutanix, Dheeraj Pandey. The keynote this morning, talking about how Nutanix really going from a traditional enterprise infrastructure company really becoming it's goal of being an iconic software company. So, Dheeraj, bring us up to speed as to you know, how Nutanix positioned itself for this future. >> Yeah, I think it's it's been a rite of passage because you can't start from AWS in day one. You have to sell books, and sell eCommerce. You know, you being in the eCommerce space. It was a 20 years journey for them before they could get into computing and people took them seriously. I mean, look at Apple with iPod, and then iPhone, and the iPad, and then iTunes and app store. And all that stuff was a journey of 15 years. You know, before they could really see that they've arrived. I think for us we had to build the form factor of an iPhone four so that people realize what this hyperconvergence thing was. Before we could go and ship an android as an operating system. 'Cause if hadn't android operating system come first... Just like Windows Mobile operating system was around for a while and nobody really understood how to really go and make money on it. I think we had to build a form factor first. And now that people grock it, now we can really go and make software out of this. And be swell software and make the android version of the iOS itself. And that's the thing. I think, as a company we're challenged to balance these paradoxes. Oh, I thought you were an appliance company and you believe in this Apple like finesse. Polish and attention to detail. How do you apply that to an android like the shboosh model where you leave it to others to go and build handsets and so on. I think that's the challenge that you've taken upon ourselves. Now inside, with the cloud service, we have a lot of control. With appliances, we have somewhat control because we at least know what our hardware is running on. But software we open it up. And opening it up, and yet not giving up on the attention to detail is the challenge that this company has to, actually, really go and undertake. We are looking at a lot of our tools and bill for certifications, and you know, passing the test. The litmus test for hardware and we're trying to figure out how to automate the heck out of it. Make them into cloud services. So that customers can now go an crowdsource certifications. So, there'll be some new paradigms that will emerge and the reason why we are well placed for those kinds of things is because our heritage is appliance. So now when we think of doing software a lot of the tooling, a lot of the automations, certifications, the attention to detail we had we'll need to go and make them into cloud services. We have some of them, like Cicer is a cloud service. X-ray is a cloud service. Foundation is a cloud service. So a lot of these services will then go and make the job of certifying an unknown piece of hardware easier, actually. I mean in fact, even day two and beyond we have what we can NCC which is a service that runs from within prism to do health checks. And every two hours you can do health checks. So if there's a new piece of hardware that we thought we just certified, we need to keep paranoid about it. Stay paranoid about it, and say, look is the hardware really the hardware we wanted it to be. So there's lots of really innovative things we can do as a company that really had the heritage of appliance to go and do software, as well. >> Yeah, absolutely people have always underestimated the interoperability required. Remember when server virtualization rolled out up the BIOS. You know, could make everything go horribly. Even, you know, containers could give you portability and run everywhere. Oh wait, networking and storage. There's considerations there. Do you think it's getting to a point from a maturation of the market that the software... You know, can you in the future take Nutanix to be a fully software company where you kind of let somebody else take care of the hardware pieces and then you just become their software. And then there's service software services. That seem like a likely future? >> Yeah, I think with the right tools, right level of automation, right level of machine learning, right level of talk-back. You know, I say talk-balk, I mean the fact that the hard beats are coming to us we understand what the customers are doing. And with the right level of paranoia day two and beyond. Which is NCC for example, it's, We call it Nutanix Cluster check. And it does like 350 odd health checks on a periodic basis. And it erases the load, and some things like that. With the right level of paranoia I think we can really go and make this work. And by the way, that's where design comes in. Like, how do you think of X-Ray as a service, and Foundation, and Cicer and NCC and so on. I think that's where the real design of a software company that is also not being callous about hardware comes in, actually. So I'm really looking forward to it. I think... it's not just about tech and products. It's also about go-to-market because go-to-market has a change too. I mean, the kind of packaging, and the kind of pricing, the kind of ELA's, sales compensation, channel programs, a lot of those things have to be revisited as well. As upstream engineering, you talk about, there's a lot of downstream go-to market engineering as well, that needs to be done. >> Now, when it comes to go-to-market, partnerships are key of course. There's the channel. You want to grow your sales channel, and grow a piece. But also from a technology standpoint, there's a comment I heard you make earlier this week. You know, Google has the opportunity to be kind of that next partner. As like Dell was a partner to give you pre-IPO credibility Dell's trusted you. Dell, you have Lenovo, you have IBM up on stage there. As a software company, who are the partners that help Nutanix kind of through this next phase? >> I think you mentioned some of them already. You know, the cloud vendors, though, obviously open up. And there will be new ones that'll open up over time as well. Where we're thinking about ways to blur the lines between public and private. Because I think the world, including the public cloud vendors have come to realize that. You know, you can't have silos. You can't have a public cloud that's separate from the private and so on. So being able to blur the lines, there'll be a lot of cloud partners for us as well. I think on the hardware side, we already talked about all of them, actually. Now, HP and Cisco are right now partners, in double quotes, because we go and make our software work on it, you know. But on some levels they'll probably also have to open up. And they're networking partners that've been working with you know, Arista is a good case in point. Lexi's another one. And security partners, like Palo Alto could be a large one over time because we think about what firewalls need to be look like in the next five years, and so on, you know. I think in every way, I look at even Apache foundation. Which is not really a company but the fact that we can really coop a lot of open source and build COM marketplace apps. Where the apps could be spun up in an on-prem environment and a single tenet on-prem environment. And you can drag and drop them into a side merchant intent environment. I think being able to go and do more with Apache. To me it's the... I would say, the biggest game changer for the company would be what else can we do with Apache? You know, 'cause we did a lot the first eight years. I mean, obviously, Linux is a big piece of our overall story, you know. Not just as hypervisor but a controller, and things like that is all Linux based. Which draws the pace of innovation of this company, actually. But beyond Linux, we've used Cassandra and ZooKeeper, RocksDB and things like that. What else can we do with Apache Spark, and Costco, and MariaDB, and things like that. I think we need to go and elevate the definition of infrastructure. To include databases and NoSQL systems, and batch processing hadoop, and things like that. All those things become a part of the overall marketplace story for us, you know. And that's where the really interesting stuff really comes in. >> How do you look at open source from a strategic standpoint from Nutanix? I think it's been phenomenal because we have then operated as a company that's bigger than we are. 'Cause otherwise, I mean, look at VMware. They don't have that goodness. Nor does Microsoft actually. I mean, Amazon is the only one that really goes and makes the best out of open source. >> Explain that, we say Microsoft had a huge push into open source. Especially, you know, kind of publicly the last two or three years. But they've been working on it, they've, you know, heavily embraced containers. You know, they've gone Kubernetes. You know, heavily. >> I'm going to give you examples. I think there's a lot of marchitecture. And what Microsoft is doing is open source. But, of course you know, Linux has to work on Hyper-V. So, that's a given. They cannot make a relevant stack without really making Linux work in Hyper-V. But they tried Hadoop on Windows. And Horton works actually on quartered Hadoop in Windows but there are not too many takers, as you see, you know. Containers will probably continue to make a lot of progress on Linux because of the LXD and LXC engines, and things like that. And there's a lot more momentum on the Linux side of containers then the LB on the Windows side containers >> And even Azure is running more Linux than they are Windows these days. >> Absolutely, now that being said, Azure Stack is still Azure Stack. It's still Hyper-V. It's still system centered, not user-centered and things like that. I think Microsoft software will really, really have to find itself. And change a lot of its thinking to really go and say we truly embrace open source like the way Amazon does. And like the way Facebook does. Like the way Nutanix does, I think. You know, it's a very different way we look at open source. We are much like Facebook and Amazon than someone else. I mean, VMware is way farther away from open source, in that sense. I mean vSphere, overall You know, I mean I would say that it probably is Linux based. ESX is Linux based from 17, 18 years ago. I am sure that curt path has been forked forever. And it's very hard for them to go and uptake from open source from overall upstream stuff actually. That we build, you know I mean, our stuff runs on a palm sized server. A palm sized server, imagine it. And that's where we put in a drone and that's the foundation of an edge cloud for us, in some sense. Our stuff runs on IBM power system because IBM was doing a lot of work with open source KVM that made it easy for us to port it to H-V, and so on. And so, I think H-V is a lot more momentum because it shares that overall core base of open source, as well. And I think, over time we'll do many more things with open source. Including in the platform space. >> Okay, how's Nutanix doing globally. You know, what more do you want to be doing. How would you rate yourself on kind of new tenent as a global company? >> I think it's a great question and it's one of those that's a double edged sword, actually. And I'll tell you what I mean by that. So when you stop growing, non-US business become 50%, 'cause that's pretty much the reflection of ID spend. Half the spend is outside the US, half the spend is within the US. Right from here is 65/35. Which is a very healthy place to be in, actually. I don't want to just think to change to like 50/50 end because that's a proxy for are we stop growing, actually. At the same time, I'd love to be shipping everywhere, because again, I've said that the definition of an enterprise cloud is even more relevant. And, you know, parts of the world that is not US, actually. In that sense, just being able to go and maintain that customer base outside the US. I mean, being able to do it. I mean, you know we recently sold a system in Myanmar, actually. And I was telling my friends that look, now I can die in piece because we have a system in Myanmar, you know. But the very fact that they are partners, and there's the channel community, and there's technology champion and their exports. There are certified people in these remote parts of the world. And the fact that we can support these customers successfully, says a lot about the overall reach of the technology. The fact that it's reliable, the fact that it's easy to use and spin up, and the fact that its easy to get certified on. I think is the core of Nutanix, so I feel good about those things, actually. >> You've reached a certain maturity of product marketed option and we've seen Nutanix starting to spread out into certain things sometimes we call adjacencies. You've talked about some of the different softer pieces. How do you manage the growth, the spread and make sure that, you know, simplicity. We were talking to Seneal this morning about absolutely you want simplicity but you also want to, you know. Where does Nutanix play and where don't they play? You know, where >> That's a great question So, there's a really good book that I was introduced to about two years ago. And it's also... There's some videos on YouTube about this book. It's called, The Founder's Mentality the YouTube video is called The Founder's Mentality, as well. And it talks about this very phenomenon that as companies grow they become complex. So they introduce a problem. It's called the Paradox of Growth. The thing that you want to do, really do, was grow. And that thing that you covered kills you. 'Cause growth creates complexity and complexity is a silent killer of growth. So the thing that you covered is the thing that kills you. And that is the Paradox of Growth, actually. You know, in very simple terms. And then it goes on to talk about what are the things you need to do because you started an insurgent company over time you started acting like you've arrived and you're incumbent now, all of a sudden. And the moment you start thinking like an incumbent you're done, in some sense. What are the headwinds, and what are the tailwinds that you can actually produce to actually stay an insurgent. I think there's some great lessons there about an insurgent mindset, and an owner's mentality and then finally, this obsessions for the front lining. How do you think about customers as the first, last thing. So, I think that's one of the guiding principles of the company. In how can we continue to imbibe the founder's mentality in there as well. Where every employee can be a founder, actually, without really having the founder's tag, and so on. And then internally, there's a lot of things we could do differently, in the way that we do engineering, in the way we do collaboration. I mean, these are all good things to revisit design. Not just the product design piece, but organizational design like what does it mean to have two PIDs a team, and microservices, and product managers, and prism developers and COM developers, assigned to two PIDs a team, and so on. QA developers and so on. So there's a lot of structure that we can put at scale. That continues to make us look small, continues to have accountability at a product manager level so that they act like GM's, as opposed to PM's. Where each of these two PIDs a team are like a quasi PNL. You know they, you can look at them very objectively and you can fund them. If they start to become too big you need to split them. If they are not doing too well, you need to go and kill them, actually. >> Alright, Dheeraj, last question I have for you. Enterprise cloud, I think, you know when it first came out as a term, we said, it was a little bit inspirational. What should we be looking for in a year to really benchmark and show as proof points that it's becoming reality. You know, from Nutanix. >> That's a great point. You know, obviously, when Gartner starts to use the term very close term, you know what I say. Used the term enterprise cloud operating system. And in one of the recent discourses I saw, enterprise cloud operating model. That's very similar to system, vs model, but the operating model of the enterprise cloud is based on the tenants of you know, web skilled engineering you know, the fact that things aren't in commodity servers. Everything is pure software and you have zero differentiation in hardware. And all those differentiation comes in pure software. Infrastructure is cold. All those things are not going away. Now how it becomes easy to use, so that you don't need PhD's to manage it is where consumer grade design comes in. And where you have this notion of prism and calmed that actually come to really help make it easy to use. I think this is the core of enterprise cloud itself, you know. I think, obviously, every layer in this overall cake needs more features, more capability, and so on. But foundationally, it's about web skilled engineering, consumer grade design. And if you're doing these two things getting more workloads, getting more geographies, getting more platforms, getting more features... All those things are basically a rite of passage. You know, you need to continue to do them all the time, actually. >> Alright, Dheeraj, I had a customer on. Said the reason he bought Nutanix was for that fullness of vision. So, always appreciate catching up with you. And we'll be back with lots more coverage here from Nutanix .NEXT, here in Nice, France. I'm Stu Miniman, and you're watching TheCUBE.