>> Narrator: Live from Midtown Manhattan, it's theCUBE, covering BigData New York City 2017 Brought to you by SiliconANGLE Media and its ecosystem sponsors. >> Hey, welcome back everyone, live in New York, it's theCUBE coverage, day three of three days of wall-to-wall coverage of BigData at NYC, in conjunction with Strata Data right around the corner, separate event than ours, we've been covering. It's our eighth year. We're here expanding on our segment we just had with Matt from Deli EMC on, really on the front lines consultant, we've got Jason from BlueData, and Casey from BlueTalon, two separate companies but the blue in the name, team blue. And of course, Matt from Dell EMC, guys, welcome back to theCUBE and let's talk about the partnerships. I know you guys have a partnership, Dell EMC leads the front lines mostly with the customer base you guys come in with the secret sauce to help that solution which I want to get to in a minute, but the big theme here this week is partnerships. And before we get into the relationship that you guys have, I want you to talk about the changes in the ecosystem, because we're seeing a couple key things. Open source, one, and it's winning, continues to grow, but the Linux Foundation pointed out the open source that we cover that exponential growth is going to be in open-source software. You can see from 4 lines of code to billions in the next 10 years. So more onboarding, so clear development path. Ecosystems have work. Now they're coming into the enterprise with suppliers, whether it's consulting, it's front-end, or full stack developers coming together. How do you see ecosystems playing in both the supplier side and also the customer side? >> So we see from the supplier side, right, and from the customer side as well, and it kind of drives both of those conversations together is that you had the early days of I don't want vendor lock-in, right, I want to have a disparate virtual cornucopia of tools in the marketplace, and then they were, each individual shop was trying to develop those and implement those on their own. And what you're now seeing is that companies still want that diversity in the tools that they utilize, and that they work with, but they don't want that, the complication of having to deliver all those tools themselves, and so they're looking more for partners that can actually bring an ecosystem to the table where it's a loose coupling of events, but that one person actually has the forefront, has the customer's best interest in mind, and actually being able to drive through those pieces. And that's what we see from a partnership, why we're driving towards partnerships, 'cause we can be a point solution, we can solve a lot of pieces, but by bringing us as a part of an ecosystem and with a partner that can actually help deliver the customer and business value to the customer, that's where we're starting to see the traction and the movement and the wins for us as an organization. >> BlueData, you guys have had very big successes, big data as a service, docker containers, this is the programmer's nirvana. Infrastructure plus code, that's the DevOps ethos going mainstream. Your thoughts on partnering, 'cause you can't do it alone. >> Yeah, I mean, for us, speaking of DevOps, and we see our software platform provides a solution for bringing a DevOps approach to data science and big data analytics. And it's much more streamlined approached, an elastic and agile approach to big data analytics and data science, but to your point, we're partnered with Dell EMC because they bring together an entire solution that delivers an elastic platform for secure multi-tenant environments for data science teams and analytics teams for a variety of different open source tool sets. So there is a large ecosystem of open source tools out there from Hadoop to Spark to Kafka to a variety of different data science, machine learning and deep learning tool sets out there, and we provide through our platform the ability to dockerize all of those environments, make them available through self-service to the data science community so they can get up and running quickly and start building their models and running their algorithms. And for us, it's on any infrastructure. So, we work closely with Dell EMC to run it on Isilon and their infrastructure, Dell-powered servers, but also you can run it in a hybrid cloud architecture. So you could run it on Azure and now GCP, and AWS. >> So this is the agility piece for the developer. They get a lot of agility, they get their security. Dell EMC has all the infrastructure side, so you got to partner together. Matt, pull this together. The customer doesn't want, they want a single pane of glass, or however you want to look at it, they don't want to deal with the nuances. You guys got to bring it all together. They want it to work. Now the theme I hear at BigData New York is integration is everything, right, so, if it doesn't integrate, the plumbings not working. How important is it for the customer to have this smooth, seamless experience? >> It's critical for them to, they have to be able to believe that it's going to be a seamless experience, and these are just two partners in the ecosystem. When we talk to enterprise customers, they have other vendors. They have half a dozen or a dozen other vendors solving big data problems, right? The Hadoop analytic tools, on and on and on. And when they choose a partner like us, they want to see that we are bringing other partners to the table that are going to complement or enhance capabilities that they have, but they want to see two key things. And we need to see the same things as well when we look at our partnerships. We want to see APIs, we want to see open APIs that are well-documented so that we know these tools can play with each other, and two, these have to be organizations we can work with. At the end of the day, a customer does business with Dell EMC because they know we're going to stand behind whatever we put in front of them. >> John: They get a track record too, you're pretty solid. >> Yep, it is-- >> But I want to push on the ecosystem, not you guys, it's critical, but I mean one thing that I've seen over my 30 years in the enterprise is ecosystems, you see bullshit and you see real deal, right, so. A lot of customers are scared, now with all this FUD and new technology, it's hard to squint through what the BS is in an ecosystem. So how do you do ecosystems right in this new market? 'Cause like you said, it's not API, that's kind of technical, but philosophy-wise you can't do the barney deals, you got Pat Gelsinger standing up on stage at VMworld, basically flew down to stand in front of all the customers of VMworld's customers and said, we're not doing a barney deal. Now, he didn't say barney deals, that's our old term. He said, it's not an optical deal we're doing with VMware. We got your back. He didn't say that, but that's my interpretation, that's what he basically said. The CEO of AWS said that. That's a partner, you know what I'm saying? So, some deals are okay we got a deal on paper, what's the difference, how do you run an ecosystem, in your opinion? >> Yeah, it's not trivial. It's not an easy thing. It takes an executive, at that level, it takes a couple of executives coming together-- >> John: From the top, obviously. >> Committing, it's not just money, it's reputation, right? If you're at that level, it's about reputation which then trickles down to the company's reputation, and so within the ecosystem, we want to sort of crawl, walk, run. Let's do some projects-- >> So you're saying reputation in communities is the number one thing. >> I think so, people are not going to go, so you will always have the bleeding edge. Someone's going to go play with a tool, they're going to see if it works-- >> Wow, reputation's everything. >> Yeah. If it fails, they're going to tell, what is the saying, if something fails, if something bad happens you tell twelve people-- >> All right, so give them a compliment. What's BlueTalon do great for you guys? Explain their talent in the ecosystem. >> So BlueTalon's talent in the ecosystem, other than being just great people, we love Carey, is that they-- >> I'll get you to say something bad about him soon, but give him the compliment first. >> They have simplified the complexity of doing security, policy and role-based security for big data. So regardless of where your data lives, regardless of if it's Hadoop, Spark, Flink, Mongo, AWS, you define a policy once. And so if I am in front of the chief governance officer, my infrastructure doesn't have a value problem to them, but theirs does, right? The legal team, when we have to do proposals, this is what gets us through the legal and compliance for GDPR in this, it's that centralized control that is so critical to the capability we provide for big data. If you sprawl your data everywhere, and we know data sprawls everywhere-- >> So you can rely on them, these guys. >> Absolutely. >> All right, BlueData, give them a compliment, where do they fit? >> So they have solved the problem of deploying containers, big data environments, in any cloud. And the notion of ephemeral clusters for big data workloads is actually really, really hard to solve. We've seen a lot of organizations attempt to do this, we see frameworks out there, like Kupernetes, that people are trying to build on. These guys have fixed it. We have gone through the most rigorous security audits at the biggest banks in the world, and they have signed off because of the network segmentation and the data segmentation, it just works. >> I think I'm running a presidential debate, now you got to say something nice about him. No, I mean, Dell EMC we know what these guys do. But for you guys, I mean, how big is BlueTalon, company-wise? I mean, you guys are not small but you're not massive either. >> We're not small, but we're not massive, right. So, we're probably around 40 resources global, and so from our perspective, we're-- >> John: That's a great deal, working with a big gorilla in Dell EMC, they got a lot of market share, big muscle? >> Exactly, and so for us, like we talked about earlier, right, the big thing for us is ecosystem functions. We do what we do really well, right, we build software that does control unified access across multiple platforms as well as multiple distributions whether it be private cloud, on-prem, or public cloud, and for us, again, it's great that we have the software, it's great that we can do those things, but if we can't actually help customers use that software to deliver value, it's useless. >> Do you guys go to the market together, do you just hold hands in front of the customer, bundle products? >> No, we go to market together, so we actually, we work, a lot of our team in enablement is not enabling our customers, it is enabling Dell EMC on the use of our software and how to do that. So we actually work with Dell EMC to train and work-- >> So you're a tight partner. There's certification involved, close relationships, you're not mailing it in. >> And then we're also involved with the customer side as well, so it's not like we go, okay great, now it's sold, we throw up our hands and walk away. >> John: Well, they're counting on you that. >> They're counting on us for the specific pieces, but we're also working with Dell EMC so that we can get that breadth right in their reach, so that they can actually go confidently to their customers and actually understand where we fit and when we don't fit. Because we're not everything to everybody, right, and so they have to understand those pieces to be able to know when that works right and how the best practices are. And so again, we're 40 people, they're, I forget, there were 80,000 at one point? Maybe even more than that? But even in the services arm, there's several thousands of people in the-- >> What's the whole point of ecosystems you're getting at here? Point at the critical thing. You've got a big piece of the puzzle, it's not just they're bundling you in. You're an active part of that, and it's an integration world right, so he needs to rely on you to integrate with his systems. >> Yeah, we have to integrate with the other parts of the ecosystem too, so it really is a three-way integration on this perspective where they do what they do really well, we do what we do and they're complementary to each other, but without the services and the glue from Dell EMC-- >> So when you bring Dell EMC into the deals too? >> We do, so we bring Dell EMC into deals, and Dell EMC sells us through a reseller agreement with them so we actually help jointly either bring them to a deal we've already found, we'll bring services to them, or we'll actually go out and do joint development of customers. So we actually come out and help with the sales process and cycles to actually understand is there a fit or is there not a fit? So, it's not a one-size-fits-all, it's not just a, yes we got something on paper that we can sell you and we'll sell you every once in a while, it really is a way to develop an ecosystem to deliver value to the customer. >> All right, so let's talk about the customer mindset real quick. When you, are they, how far along on them, I really don't know much 'cause I'm really starting to probe in this area, how savvy are they to the partnership levels? I mean, you disclose it, you're transparent about it, but I mean, are customers getting that the partnering is very key? I mean, are they drilling, asking tough questions, are you kind of getting them educated one way, are they savvy about it? They may have been doing partners in house, but remember the enterprise had a generation of down-to-the-bone cutting, outsource everything, consolidation, and then you know, go back around 2010, the uplift on reinvestment hit, so we're kind of in this renaissance right now. So, thoughts? >> The partnership is actually the secret sauce that's part of our sales cycle. When we talk about big data outcomes and enabling self-service, customers assume oh, okay, you guys built some software, you've got some hardware, and then when we double-click into how we make this capable, we say oh, well we partner with BlueTalon and BlueData, and this other, and they go, wait a minute, that's not your software? No, no, we didn't build that. We have scoured the market and we've found partners that we work with and we trust, and all of a sudden you can see their shoulders relax and they realize that we're not just there to sell them more kit. We're actually there to help them solve their problems. And it is a game changer, because they deal with vendors every day. Software Vendor X, Software Vendor Y, Hardware Vendor Z, and so to have a company that they have good relationships with already bring more capabilities to them, the guard comes down and they say okay, let's talk about how we can make this work. >> All right, so let's get to the meat of the partnership, which I want to get to 'cause I think that's fundamental. Thanks for sharing perspective on the community piece. We're being on it, we've been doing, we're a community brand ourselves. We're not a close guard, we're not about restricting and censoring people at events, that's not what we're about. So you guys know that, so appreciate you commenting on the community there. The Elastic Data Platform you guys are talking about, it's a partnership deal. You provide an EPIC software, you guys providing some great security in there. What is it about, what's the benefit? So it's you're leading them to product, take a minute to explain the product and then the roles. >> Yeah, so the Elastic Data Platform is a capability, a set of capabilities that is meant to help our enterprise customers get to that next level of self-service. Data science as a service, and do that on any cloud with any tools in a security-controlled manner. That's what Elastic Data Platform is. And it's meant to plug in to the customer's existing investments and their existing tools and augment that, and through our services arm, we tie these technologies together using their open APIs, that's why that's so critical for us, and we bring that value back to our customers. >> And you guys are providing the EPIC software? What is EPIC software? I mean, I love epic software, that's an epic, I hope it's not an epic fail, so an epic name, but epic-- >> Elastic Private Instant Clusters, it's actually an acronym for what it stands for, that is what it provides for our customers. >> John: So you're saying that EPIC stands for-- >> Elastic Private Instant Clusters. So it can run in a private cloud environment on your on-prem infrastructure, but as I said before, it can run in a hybrid architecture on the public cloud as well. But yeah, I mean, we're working closely with the Dell EMC team, they're an investor, we work closely with their services organization, with their server organization, the storage organization, but they really are the glue that brings it all together. From services to software to hardware, and provides the complete solution to the customers. So, as I think Matt-- >> John: Multi-tenancy is a huge deal, multi-tenancy's a huge deal. >> Absolutely, yeah. Also the ability to have logical isolation between each of those different tenants for different data science teams, different analyst teams, you know, that's particularly at large financial services organizations like Barclays, you spoke yesterday, Matt alluded to earlier. They talked about the need to support a variety of different business units who each have their own unique use cases, whether it's batch processing with Hadoop or real-time streaming and fast data with Spark, Kafka, and NoSQL Database, or whether it's deep learning, machine learning. Each of those different tenants has different needs, and so you can spin up containers using our solution for each of those tenants. >> John: Yeah, that's been a big theme this week too, and so many little things, this one relates to this one, is the elastic nature of how people want to manage the provisioning of more resource. So, here's what we see. They're using collective intelligence, data, hey, they're data science guys, they figured it out! Whatever the usage is, they can do a virtual layer if you will, and then based upon the use they can then double down. So let the users drive this real collaborative, that seems to the a big theme, so this helps there. The other theme has been the centralized, this is the GDPR hanging over one's head, but the, even though that's more of threat and it's a gun to the head, it's the hammer or the guillotine, however you look at it, there's more of enablement around centralization, so it's not just the threat of that, it's other things that are benefiting. >> Right, it's more than just the threat of the GDPR and being compliant with those perspectives, right? The other big portion of this is, if you want to do, you do want to provide self-service. So the key to self-service is that's great, I can create an environment, but if it takes me a long time to get data to that environment to actually be able to utilize it or protect the data that's in that environment by having to rewrite policies from a different place, then you don't get the benefit right, the acceleration of the self-service. So having centralized policies of distributed enforcements gives you that elastic ability, right? Again, we can deploy the central engines again on-premises, but you can protect data that's in the cloud or protect data that's in a private cloud, so as companies move data for their different workloads, we can put the same protections with them and it goes immediately with them, so you don't have to manage it in multiple places. It's not like, oh, did I remember to put that rule over in this system? Oh, no I didn't, oh and guess what just happened to me? You know, I did get smacked with a big fine because I didn't, I wasn't compliant. So compliance-- >> How about Audit, too? I mean, are you checking the Audit side too? >> Yeah, so Audit's a great portion of that, and we do Audit for a couple of reasons. One is to make sure that you are compliant, but two is to make sure you actually have the right policies defined. Are people accessing the data the way you expect them to access that data? So that's another big portion of us and what we do from an audit perspective is that data usage lineage, and we actually tell you what the customer, what the user was trying to do. So if a customer's trying to access the data you see a large group trying to access a certain set of data but they're being denied access to it, now you can look and say, is that truly correct? Do I want them not being-- >> John: Well, Equifax, that thing was being phished out over months and months and months. Not just four, that thing has been phished over 10 times. In fact, state-sponsored actors were franchises of that organization. So, they were in the VPN, so it's not even, so you, so this is where the issues, okay, let's just say that happened again. You would have flagged it. >> We flag it. >> You would have seen the pattern access and said, okay, a lot of people cleaning us out. >> Yep, while it's happening. Right, so you get to see that usage, the lineage of the usage of the data, right, so you get to see that pattern as well. Not only who's trying to access, all right, 'cause protecting the perimeter is, as we all know, is no longer viable. So we actually get to watch the usage of the, the usage pattern so you can detect an anomaly in that type of system, as well as you can quickly change policies to shut down that gap, and then watch to see what happens, see who's continuing to try to hit it. >> Well, it's been a great conversation. Love that you guys are on and great to see the Elastic Data Platform come together through the partnerships, again. As you know, we're really passionate about highlighting and understanding more about the community dynamic as it becomes more than just socialization, it's a business model to the enterprise, as it was in open source. We'll be covering that. So I'd like to go around the panel here just to end this segment. Share something that someone might not know what's going on in industry that you want to point out, that's an observation, an anecdote that hasn't been covered, hasn't been serviced, it could be a haymaker, it could be something anecdotal, personal observation. In the big data world, BigData NYC this week or beyond, what should people know about that may or may not be covered out there that's happened that they should know about? >> Well, I think this one's, people pretty much should know about this one, right, but four or five years ago Hadoop was going to replace everything in the world. And two, three years ago the RDBMS's groups were like, Hadoop will never make it out of the science fair project. Right, we're in a world now where that's no longer true. It's somewhere in between. Hadoop is going to remain, and they're going to be continued, and the RDBMS is also going to continue. So you need to look at ecosystems that can actually allow you to cover both sides of that coin, which we're talking about here, is those types of tools are going to continue together forward. So you have to look at your entire ecosystem and move away from siloed functions to how you actually look at an entire data protection in data usage on environment. >> Matt? >> I would say that the technology adoption in the enterprise is outstripping the organization's ability to keep up with it. So as we deploy new technologies, tools, and techniques to do all sorts of really amazing things, we see the organization lagging in its ability to keep up. And so policies and procedures, operating models, whatever you want to call that, put it under the data governance umbrella, I suppose. If those don't keep up, you're going to end up with just an organization that is mismatched with the technology that is put into place, and ultimately you can end up in a massive compliance problem. Now, that's worst case. But even in best case, you're going to have a really inefficient use of your resources. My favorite question to ask organizations, so let's say you could put a timer on one of the data science sandboxes. So what happens when the timer goes off and the data science is not done? And you've got a line of people waiting for resources, what do you do? What is, how does the organization respond to that? It's a really simple question, but the answer's going to be very nuanced. So if that's the policy, that's the operating model stuff that we're talking about that we've got to think about when we enable self-service and self-security, those things have to come hand-in-hand. >> That's the operational thinking that needs to come through. >> Okay, Jason? >> Yeah, I think even for us, I mean this has been happening for some time now, but I think there still is this notion that the traditional way to deploy Hadoop and other big data workloads on prem is bare metal, and that's the way it's always been done. Or, you can run it in the cloud. But I think what we're seeing now, what we've seen evolve over the past couple of years is you can run your on-prem workloads using docker containers in a containerized environment. You can have this cloud-like experience on-prem but you can also provide the ability to be able to move those workloads, whether they're on-prem or in the cloud. So you can have this hybrid approach and multi-cloud approach. So I think that's fundamentally changing, it's a new dynamic, a new paradigm for big data, either on-prem or in the cloud. It doesn't have to be on bare metal anymore. And we get the same, we've been able to get-- >> It's on-prem, people want on-prem, that's where the action is, and cloud no doubt, but right now it's the transition. Hybrid cloud's definitely going to be there. I guess my observation is the tool shed problem. You know, I said earlier all day, you don't want to have a tool shed full of tools you don't use anymore or buy a hammer that wants to turn into a lawn mower 'cause the vendor changed, pivoted. You got to be careful what you buy, the tools, so don't think like a tool. Think like a platform. And I think having a platform mentality, understanding the system, or operating environment as you were getting to, I think really is a fundamental exercise that most decision makers think about. 'Cause again, your relationship with the Elastic Data Platform proves that this operating environment's evolving, it's not about the tool. The tool has to be enabled, and if the tool is enabled into the platform it should have a data model that falls into place, no one should have to think about it, you get the compliance, you get the docker container, so don't buy too many tools. If you do, make sure they're clean and in a clean tool shed! You got a lawnmower, I guess that's the platform. Bad analogy, but you know, I think tools has been the rage in this market, and now I think platforming it is something that we're seeing more of. So guys, thanks so much, appreciate it. Elastic Data Platform by Dell EMC, with the EPIC Platform from BlueData, and BlueTalon providing the data governance and compliance, great stuff, I'm certain the GDPR, BlueTalon, you guys got a bright future, congratulations. All right, more CUBE coverage after this short break, live from New York, it's theCUBE. 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