Upbeat music plays >> Voice Over: TheCUBE presents Ignite 22, brought to you by Palo Alto Networks. >> Good morning everyone. Welcome to theCUBE. Lisa Martin here with Dave Vellante. We are live at Palo Alto Networks Ignite. This is the 10th annual Ignite. There's about 3,000 people here, excited to really see where this powerhouse organization is taking security. Dave, it's great to be here. Our first time covering Ignite. People are ready to be back. They.. and security is top. It's a board level conversation. >> It is the other Ignite, I like to call it cuz of course there's another big company has a conference name Ignite, so I'm really excited to be here. Palo Alto Networks, a company we've covered for a number of years, as we just wrote in our recent breaking analysis, we've called them the gold standard but it's not just our opinion, we've backed it up with data. The company's on track. We think to do close to 7 billion in revenue by 2023. That's double it's 2020 revenue. You can measure it with execution, market cap M and A prowess. I'm super excited to have the CEO here. >> We have the CEO here, Nikesh Arora joins us from Palo Alto Networks. Nikesh, great to have you on theCube. Thank you for joining us. >> Well thank you very much for having me Lisa and Dave >> Lisa: It was great to see your keynote this morning. You said that, you know fundamentally security is a data problem. Well these days every company has to be a data company. Grocery stores, gas stations, car dealers. How is Palo Alto networks making customers, these data companies, more secure? >> Well Lisa, you know, (coughs) I've only done cybersecurity for about four, four and a half years so when I came to the industry I was amazed to see how security is so reactive as opposed to proactive. We should be able to stop bad threats, right? as they're happening. But I think a lot of threats get through because we don't have the right infrastructure and the right tooling and right products in there. So I think we've been working hard for the last four and a half years to turn it around so we can have consistent data flow across an enterprise and then mine that data for threats and anomalous behavior and try and protect our customers. >> You know the problem, I wrote this, this weekend, the problem in cybersecurity is well understood, you put up that Optiv graph and it's like 8,000 companies >> Yes >> and I think you mentioned your keynote on average, you know 30 to 40 tools, maybe 50, at least 20, >> Yes. >> from the folks that I talked to. So, okay, great, but actually solving that problem is not trivial. To be a consolidator, I mean, everybody wants to consolidate tools. So in your three to four years and security as you well know, it's, you can't fake security. It's a really, really challenging topic. So when you joined Palo Alto Networks and you heard that strategy, I know you guys have been thinking about this for some time, what did you see as the challenges to actually executing on that and how is it that you've been able to sort of get through that knot hole. >> So Dave, you know, it's interesting if you look at the history of cybersecurity, I call them the flavor of the decade, a flare, you know a new threat vector gets created, very large market gets created, a solution comes through, people flock, you get four or five companies will chase that opportunity, and then they become leaders in that space whether it's firewalls or endpoints or identity. And then people stick to their swim lane. The problem is that's a very product centric approach to security. It's not a customer-centric approach. The customer wants a more secure enterprise. They don't want to solve 20 different solutions.. problems with 20 different point solutions. But that's kind of how the industry's grown up, and it's been impossible for a large security company in one category, to actually have a substantive presence in the next category. Now what we've been able to do in the last four and a half years is, you know, from our firewall base we had resources, we had intellectual capability from a security perspective and we had cash. So we used that to pay off our technical debt. We acquired a bunch of companies, we created capability. In the last three years, four years we've created three incremental businesses which are all on track to hit a billion dollars the next 12 to 18 months. >> Yeah, so it's interesting on Twitter last night we had a little conversation about acquirers and who was a good, who was not so good. It was, there was Oracle, they came up actually very high, they'd done pretty, pretty good Job, VMware was on the list, IBM, Cisco, ServiceNow. And if you look at IBM and Cisco's strategy, they tend to be very services heavy, >> Mm >> right? How is it that you have been able to, you mentioned get rid of your technical debt, you invested in that. I wonder if you could, was it the, the Cloud, even though a lot of the Cloud was your own Cloud, was that a difference in terms of your ability to integrate? Because so many companies have tried it in the past. Oracle I think has done a good job, but it took 'em 10 to 12 years, you know, to, to get there. What was the sort of secret sauce? Is it culture, is it just great engineering? >> Dave it's a.. thank you for that. I think, look, it's, it's a mix of everything. First and foremost, you know, there are certain categories we didn't play in so there was nothing to integrate. We built a capability in a category in automation. We didn't have a product, we acquired a company. It's a net new capability in instant response. We didn't have a capability. It was net new capability. So there was, there was, other than integrating culturally and into the organization into our core to market processes there was no technical integration needed. Most of our technical integration was needed in our Cloud platform, which we bought five or six companies, we integrated then we just bought one recently called cyber security as well, which is going to get integrated in the Cloud platform. >> Dave: Yeah. >> And the thing is like, the Cloud platform is net new in the industry. We.. nobody's created a Cloud security platform yet, so we're working hard to create it because we don't want to replicate the mistakes of the past, that were made in enterprise security, in Cloud security. So it's a combination of cultural integration it's a combination of technical integration. The two things we do differently I think, than most people in the industry is look, we have no pride of, you know of innovations. Like, if somebody else has done it, we respect it and we'll acquire it, but we always want to acquire number one or number two in their category. I don't want number three or four. There's three or four for a reason and there still leaves one or two out there to compete with. So we've always acquired one or two, one. And the second thing, which is as important is most of these companies are in the early stage of development. So it's very important for the founding team to be around. So we spend a lot of time making sure they stick around. We actually make our people work for them. My principle is, listen, if they beat us in the open market with all our resources and our people, then they deserve to run this as opposed to us. So most of our new product categories are run by founders of companies required. >> So a little bit of Jack Welch, a little bit of Franks Lubens is a, you know always deference to the founders. But go ahead Lisa. >> Speaking of cultural transformation, you were mentioning your keynote this morning, there's been a significant workforce transformation at Palo Alto Networks. >> Yeah >> Talk a little bit about that, cause that's a big challenge, for many organizations to achieve. Sounds like you've done it pretty well. >> Well you know, my old boss, Eric Schmidt, used to say, 'revenue solves all known problems'. Which kind of, you know, it is a part joking, part true, but you know as Dave mentioned, we've doubled or two and a half time the revenues in the last four and a half years. That allows you to grow, that allows you to increase headcount. So we've gone from four and a half thousand people to 14,000 people. Good news is that's 9,500 people are net new to the company. So you can hire a whole new set of people who have new skills, new capabilities and there's some attrition four and a half thousand, some part of that turns over in four and a half years, so we effectively have 80% net new people, and the people we have, who are there from before, are amazing because they've built a phenomenal firewall business. So it's kind of been right sized across the board. It's very hard to do this if you're not growing. So you got to focus on growing. >> Dave: It's like winning in sports. So speaking of firewalls, I got to ask you does self-driving cars need brakes? So if I got a shout out to my friend Zeus Cararvela so like that's his line about why you need firewalls, right? >> Nikesh: Yes. >> I mean you mentioned it in your keynote today. You said it's the number one question that you get. >> and I don't get it why P industry observers don't go back and say that's, this is ridiculous. The network traffic is doubling or tripling. (clears throat) In fact, I gave an interesting example. We shut down our data centers, as I said, we are all on Google Cloud and Amazon Cloud and then, you know our internal team comes in, we'd want a bigger firewall. I'm like, why do you want a bigger firewall? We shut down our data centers as well. The traffic coming in and out of our campus is doubled. We need a bigger firewall. So you still need a firewall even if you're in the Cloud. >> So I'm going to come back to >> Nikesh: (coughs) >> the M and A strategy. My question is, can you be both best of breed and develop a comprehensive suite number.. part one and part one A of that is do you even have to, because generally sweets win out over best of breed. But what, how do you, how do you respond? >> Well, you know, this is this age old debate and people get trapped in that, I think in my mind, and let me try and expand the analogy which I tried to do up in my keynote. You know, let's assume that Oracle, Microsoft, Dynamics and Salesforce did not exist, okay? And you were running a large company of 50,000 people and your job was to manage the customer process which easier to understand than security. And I said, okay, guess what? I have a quoting system and a lead system but the lead system doesn't talk to my coding system. So I get leads, but I don't know who those customers. And I write codes for a whole new set of customers and I have a customer database. Then when they come as purchase orders, I have a new database with all the customers who've bought something from me, and then when I go get them licensing I have a new database and when I go have customer support, I have a fifth database and there are customers in all five databases. You'll say Nikesh you're crazy, you should have one customer database, otherwise you're never going to be able to make this work. But security is the same problem. >> Dave: Mm I should.. I need consistency in data from suit to nuts. If it's in Cloud, if you're writing code, I need to understand the security flaws before they go into deployment, before they go into production. We for somehow ridiculously have bought security like IT. Now the difference between IT and security is, IT is required to talk to each other, so a Dell server and HP server work very similarly but a Palo Alto firewall and a Checkpoint firewall Fortnight firewall work formally differently. And then how that transitions into endpoints is a whole different ball game. So you need consistency in data, as Lisa was saying earlier, it's a data problem. You need consistency as you traverse to the enterprise. And that's why that's the number one need. Now, when you say best of breed, (coughs) best of breed, if it's fine, if it's a specific problem that you're trying to solve. But if you're trying to make sure that's the data flow that happens, you need both best of breed, you know, technology that stops things and need integration on data. So what we are trying to do is we're trying to give people best to breed solutions in the categories they want because otherwise they won't buy us. But we're also trying to make sure we stitch the data. >> But that definition of best of breed is a little bit of nuance than different in security is what I'm hearing because that consistency >> Nikesh: (coughs) Yes, >> across products. What about across Cloud? You mentioned Google and Amazon. >> Yeah so that's great question. >> Dave: Are you building the security super Cloud, I call it, above the Cloud? >> It's, it's not, it's, less so a super Cloud, It's more like Switzerland and I used to work at Google for 10 years, not a secret. And we used to sell advertising and we decided to go into pub into display ads or publishing, right. Now we had no publishing platform so we had to be good at everybody else's publishing platform >> Dave: Mm >> but we never were able to search ads for everybody else because we only focus on our own platform. So part of it is when the Cloud guys they're busy solving security for their Cloud. Google is not doing anything about Amazon Cloud or Microsoft Cloud, Microsoft's Azure, right? AWS is not doing anything about Google Cloud or Azure. So what we do is we don't have a Cloud. Our job in providing Cloud securities, be Switzerland make sure it works consistently across every Cloud. Now if you try to replicate what we offer Prisma Cloud, by using AWS, Azure and GCP, you'd have to first of all, have three panes of glass for all three of them. But even within them they have four panes of glass for the capabilities we offer. So you could end up with 12 different interfaces to manage a development process, we give you one. Now you tell me which is better. >> Dave: Sounds like a super Cloud to me Lisa (laughing) >> He's big on super Cloud >> Uber Cloud, there you >> Hey I like that, Uber Cloud. Well, so I want to understand Nikesh, what's realistic. You mentioned in your keynote Dave, brought it up that the average organization has 30 to 50 tools, security tools. >> Nikesh: Yes, yes >> On their network. What is realistic for from a consolidation perspective where Palo Alto can come in and say, let me make this consistent and simple for you. >> Well, I'll give you your own example, right? (clears throat) We're probably sub 10 substantively, right? There may be small things here and there we do. But on a substantive protecting the enterprise perspective you be should be down to eight or 10 vendors, and that is not perfect but it's a lot better than 50, >> Lisa: Right? >> because don't forget 50 tools means you have to have capability to understand what those 50 tools are doing. You have to have the capability to upgrade them on a constant basis, learn about their new capabilities. And I just can't imagine why customers have two sets of firewalls right. Now you got to learn both the files on how to deploy both them. That's silly because that's why we need 7 million more people. You need people to understand, so all these tools, who work for companies. If you had less tools, we need less people. >> Do you think, you know I wrote about this as well, that the security industry is anomalous and that the leader has, you know, single digit, low single digit >> Yes >> market shares. Do you think that you can change that? >> Well, you know, when I started that was exactly the observation I had Dave, which you highlighted in your article. We were the largest by revenue, by small margin. And we were one and half percent of the industry. Now we're closer to three, three to four percent and we're still at, you know, like you said, going to be around $7 billion. So I see a path for us to double from here and then double from there, and hopefully as we keep doubling and some point in time, you know, I'd like to get to double digits to start with. >> One of the things that I think has to happen is this has to grow dramatically, the ecosystem. I wonder if you could talk about the ecosystem and your strategy there. >> Well, you know, it's a matter of perspective. I think we have to get more penetrated in our largest customers. So we have, you know, 1800 of the top 2000 customers in the world are Palo Alto customers. But we're not fully penetrated with all our capabilities and the same customers set, so yes the ecosystem needs to grow, but the pandemic has taught us the ecosystem can grow wherever they are without having to come to Vegas. Which I don't think is a bad thing to be honest. So the ecosystem is growing. You are seeing new players come to the ecosystem. Five years ago you didn't see a lot of systems integrators and security. You didn't see security offshoots of telecom companies. You didn't see the Optivs, the WWTs, the (indistinct) of the world (coughs) make a concerted shift towards consolidation or services and all that is happening >> Dave: Mm >> as we speak today in the audience you will find people from Google, Amazon Microsoft are sitting in the audience. People from telecom companies are sitting in the audience. These people weren't there five years ago. So you are seeing >> Dave: Mm >> the ecosystem's adapting. They're, they want to be front and center of solving the customer's problem around security and they want to consolidate capability, they need. They don't want to go work with a hundred vendors because you know, it's like, it's hard. >> And the global system integrators are key. I always say they like to eat at the trough and there's a lot of money in security. >> Yes. >> Dave: (laughs) >> Well speaking of the ecosystem, you had Thomas Curry and Google Cloud CEO in your fireside chat in the keynote. Talk a little bit about how Google Cloud plus Palo Alto Networks, the Zero Trust Partnership and what it's enable customers to achieve. >> Lisa, that's a great question. (clears his throat) Thank you for bringing it up. Look, you know the, one of the most fundamental shifts that is happening is obviously the shift to the Cloud. Now when that shift fully, sort of, takes shape you will realize if your network has changed and you're delivering everything to the Cloud you need to go figure out how to bring the traffic to the Cloud. You don't have to bring it back to your data center you can bring it straight to the Cloud. So in that context, you know we use Google Cloud and Amazon Cloud, to be able to carry our traffic. We're going from a product company to a services company in addition, right? Cuz when we go from firewalls to SASE we're not carrying your traffic. When we carry our traffic, we need to make sure we have underlying capability which is world class. We think GCP and AWS and Azure run some of the biggest and best networks in the world. So our partnership with Google is such that we use their public Cloud, we sit on top of their Cloud, they give us increased enhanced functionality so that our customers SASE traffic gets delivered in priority anywhere in the world. They give us tooling to make sure that there's high reliability. So you know, we partner, they have Beyond Corp which is their version of Zero Trust which allows you to take unmanaged devices with browsers. We have SASE, which allows you to have managed devices. So the combination gives our collective customers the ability for Zero Trust. >> Do you feel like there has to be more collaboration within the ecosystem, the security, you know, landscape even amongst competitors? I mean I think about Google acquires Mandiant. You guys have Unit 42. Should and will, like, Wendy Whitmore and maybe they already are, Kevin Mandia talk more and share more data. If security's a data problem is all this data >> Nikesh: Yeah look I think the industry shares threat data, both in private organizations as well as public and private context, so that's not a problem. You know the challenge with too much collaboration in security is you never know. Like you know, the moment you start sharing your stuff at third parties, you go out of Secure Zone. >> Lisa: Mm >> Our biggest challenge is, you know, I can't trust a third party competitor partner product. I have to treat it with as much suspicion as anything else out there because the only way I can deliver Zero Trust is to not trust anything. So collaboration in Zero Trust are a bit of odds with each other. >> Sounds like another problem you can solve >> (laughs) >> Nikesh last question for you. >> Yes >> Favorite customer or example that you think really articulates the value of what Palo Alto was delivering? >> Look you know, it's a great question, Lisa. I had this seminal conversation with a customer and I explained all those things we were talking about and the customer said to me, great, okay so what do I need to do? I said, fun, you got to trust me because you know, we are on a journey, because in the past, customers have had to take the onus on themselves of integrating everything because they weren't sure a small startup will be independent, be bought by another cybersecurity company or a large cybersecurity company won't get gobbled up and split into pieces by private equity because every one of the cybersecurity companies have had a shelf life. So you know, our aspiration is to be the evergreen cybersecurity company. We will always be around and we will always tackle innovation and be on the front line. So the customer understood what we're doing. Over the last three years we've been working on a transformation journey with them. We're trying to bring them, or we have brought them along the path of Zero Trust and we're trying to work with them to deliver this notion of reducing their meantime to remediate from days to minutes. Now that's an outcome based approach that's a partnership based approach and we'd like, love to have more and more customers of that kind. I think we weren't ready to be honest as a company four and a half years ago, but I think today we're ready. Hence my keynote was called The Perfect Storm. I think we're at the right time in the industry with the right capabilities and the right ecosystem to be able to deliver what the industry needs. >> The perfect storm, partners, customers, investors, employees. Nikesh, it's been such a pleasure having you on theCUBE. Thank you for coming to talk to Dave and me right after your keynote. We appreciate that and we look forward to two days of great coverage from your executives, your customers, and your partners. Thank you. >> Well, thank you for having me, Lisa and Dave and thank you >> Dave: Pleasure >> for what you guys do for our industry. >> Our pleasure. For Nikesh Arora and Dave Vellante, I'm Lisa Martin, you're watching theCUBE live at MGM Grand Hotel in Las Vegas, Palo Alto Ignite 22. Stick around Dave and I will be joined by our next guest in just a minute. (cheerful music plays out)

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE covering AWS re:Invent 2017. Presented by AWS, Intel, and our ecosystem of partners. (techno music) >> Welcome back here on theCUBE, of course, the flagship broadcast for SilconANGLE, along with Justin Warren, I am John Walls, and we are live at re:Invent, AWS' annual shin-dig here in Las Vegas, and certainly with great success, they have staged this year's event. We'll have more on that a little bit later on, right now we're joined by Bill Mann, who's the Chief Product Officer at Centrify, the latest newcomer to the AWS marketplace. >> Yes. >> John: Bill good to see you, thanks for the time today. >> Thanks for the time as well. >> Big week for you, right? >> Yup >> Joining the marketplace, tell us about the driver of that decision, and then what you're bringing, literally, to the marketplace? >> Sure, sure. Well, we're bringing our products to the marketplace. We're very excited about getting our products on the marketplace, and what was really the driver for us was, we wanted to really be part of the Amazon ecosystem, and we wanted to make, reduce the friction of selling to enterprise and mid-market customers, and this was the way to get to those customers. We realized really early on that, customers are already buying all the other services from Amazon already. They're buying their instances. They're buying their storage, and so forth. So, getting our products on the marketplace was just an important aspect of reaching those customers and removing the friction, and so forth. Also, with the move to the cloud, our customers were asking for how to secure servers in the cloud, and secure access to applications in the cloud, and then things just kind of lead, one thing leads to another, where you say, okay, let's put everything in one place as well. I kind of used the analogy of we buy our diapers from Amazon, now, and everything else, so, but the IT shop is working the same way. They don't want to deal with multiple vendors, and if you can reduce that friction, at least, my theory is, reducing that friction will mean, we can sell more product to the customer. >> That's an interesting image, diapers from... (laughter) >> It's the everything store. >> I didn't give a chance to talk about Centrify, a little bit. Security firm with the tag "The breach stops here", so, just tell for those at home who might not be familiar with Centrify, a little bit more about your specific offers. >> Sure, well, let's start with the breech stops here, the reason we have our tagline, "the breech stops here" is, it really is a definition of what's happening in the marketplace. If you look at most of the breaches out there, there's 80% of most breaches are to do with compromised credentials, our passwords, and that is really an area that we focus on. We are really trying to solve the problem, how users have access to the applications, like Sales Force, or any home grown applications, or how IT users have access to their servers, like a server on AWS, and using a password, and having too much privileges, is really the wrong way to do things, so we are solving that problem, and that's why we kinda start off with that line of the breach stops here, because we fundamentally believe that if you implement security based upon identity you're gonna be able to reduce your risk. >> Security is such a hot market right at the moment. We're hearing constantly, we were talking earlier on theCUBE, where we're talking IOT, and it immediately went to security. It was being really, really top of mind for people, so the things that you're doing with Centrify, there's kind of two prongs to it, if I understand it. So, one is identity management. So, knowing who people are. So that credentials management. And the other one's to do with the access, is that right? We were talking before we went to air that, about the Beyond Corp concept, where instead of having this, sort of inside protected crunchy layer, and then everything outside is bad, now it's just becoming everything everywhere should not be trusted, unless you are cleared by something like Centrify. >> So, yes, so, for those of you who are familiar with the Beyond Corp model, the model really is about zero trust. So, if you think of these two things here in our user, let's say a server instance, the thing in between you can't trust, and in the past we've been trusting the firewall to stop the bad guys from coming into our network. So really the concept is around, assume the bad actors are everywhere, and now that you've assumed that, let's now focus on what you can do to actually gain security. So the concepts are, let's do identity assurance. Let's make sure this is really Bill. Let's do, let's make sure Bill's coming from a trusted device, yeah, like a known mobile phone that hasn't been jailbroken, has the right configuration policies, et cetera. Then, let's do access control, or what we call, lease privilege, to the asset that they're trying to have access to. So, is Bill coming from this show, from his phone, allowed to access SalesForce.com? Or is Bill coming from this phone able login to a Unix instance on AWS, now? And what can he do on that instance? Can he go to root, and restart the Oracle database, or can he just run some lower level privilege commands? So, that's the scope of what we're doing. In fact, Beyond Corp is a great descriptor of what we do, if a company wants to implement Beyond Corp, that security paradigm, which I think a lot of modern companies are thinking that way, you can use the services that we provide on the Amazon Marketplace to implement that. We have a service called Application Service, which is all about securing your applications. We have a service called Endpoints Service, which is securing the endpoints, like the mobile phones and so forth, and we have a service called Infrastructure Service, which is securing instances in the cloud. Access to those instances, and those, all those services can be used together, as well, because, as you know I'm an IT user. One day, I'm using Outlook to read my email, and in the next second I'm logging onto a Unix instance. So, for me, it's bringing all these components together, and that's providing throughout by the marketplace. >> Yeah, and really, providing that security in context, as you mentioned. It could be the same person. Like, I'm at work, and I'm doing some things, and I've got access to all these great, all of this information inside the company, but when I go home, should I still have access to that? Probably not. So, if I'm sitting home and I'm using my device, as many of us do, I have children, and they sometimes put games on your phone, or load stuff on your computer. So, if I've got my work computer at home with me, and I suddenly start deciding, hmm I think I'll login and download all of the sales information, that shouldn't happen. >> That's absolutely right. So, the context is that core part of it, and that's what endpoint services does for us. So going back to an Amazon use case, if I'm at home, and I'm logging on to my Amazon console, yeah? From my home machine, let's say, and I'm kicking off an instance, should I be able to do that? I'm not using, maybe an endpoint that is authorized, but I could authorize an endpoint and say, this is a known endpoint, like a lot of IT workers do. And you could also do things like, I'm in Vegas now, and I'm using my Mac, and I'm trying to go to the Amazon console, should I be able to, because that's outside of my normal behavior, in which case, we would up-level your multi-factor authentication, it would re-prompt me to re-authenticate. So, all of that is built into our environment. So, our services are not just for Amazon. It's for on-premises, and for cloud apps, cause it's the whole gamut of what an enterprise has. As companies are moving, or migrating from one premises to the cloud, we can protect the applications, and servers on premises, as well as servers in cloud, and applications on premises, as well as SAAS apps, like Sales Force, or Concur, et cetera, et cetera. So, it's that gamut of giving a user access to applications and infrastructure that we're doing with this Beyond Corp model in mind. Which is, I think the cool, and the interesting thing about what we're doing, because we are connecting these components together, and that's the only way we're going to raise security, cause if you go back to the stat I gave you earlier about the 80%, that is the problem, right? A firewall will not protect you from these breaches, and we could have an argument about it, but if it was, then we wouldn't see the breaches, right? That's kind of the high-level. >> John: Yeah >> There's only so much that you as, like Amazon can do so much about securing their environment, but ultimately you as the customer need to spend a bunch of time, and -- >> Just like they did, share responsibility, right? >> Absolutely right. I mean, Amazon does an awesome job in defining the shared responsibility model, and we are relying on them to do their part of the responsibility, and we're proving the technology for the customers to worry about their aspect, right? So, Amazon does not worry about Bill coming from this device, having access to an instance, we're worrying about those things. So, absolutely, we're part of the shared responsibility model for Amazon. >> We're not going to worry about Bill coming in either. I think you're okay. I think it'll be alright. How do you guys, in the big picture, put on your bad guy hat? How do you look for, if you offer a product, this is our latest security offering, now let's go look for holes? Now let's, I mean, you're trying to beat it up all the time, right? You're always, you're looking for vulnerabilities? So, how do you switch gears like that, and go to the other side of the fence to think about what the next problem is going to be, or what the next vulnerability is going to be? >> Well, you know, I think we, like most other security, modern security companies, we are thinking, one side of our brain is thinking like the bad guys all the time. We have to, and, and honestly, they are always multiple steps ahead of us, and one of the things I like to really make sure customers understand is, some customers get really wound up about zero risk, right? They want it to be perfect before they implement a solution, and really the reality is, most companies don't even have multi-factor authentication for implemented for all of their employees, and if companies just implemented multi-factor authentication for all their users, for all their access, you would have a significant reduction in risk. So, the types of security we're focused on, is not about reducing risk to zero, or finding every single vulnerability out there. It's really trying to attack the problem that hasn't been attacked already. Let me give you another analogy. As we all know patching is a basic security model that we all need to know. Yeah, but how many vulnerabilities have there been in the news where patching was not done? We're like patching. You know, understanding the user is authenticating an environment without a password, and instead using multi-factor authentication, is the best precaution against the bad guys. It won't limitate risk, right, but its going to drastically reduce it. Now, as part of the services we're offering on Amazon, we have multi-factor authentication as a service, right? By definition, as it's a service means it can be implemented extremely fast for enterprise. It's a SAAS Service, right? It's pay by use, right? By definition. So, gone are the days where the technology was the reason you couldn't implement these sets of capabilities, cause they're easy to procure, they're in the cloud, they're mobile friendly, they're modern, et cetera, et cetera. So that's how we really deal with the aspect of the bad guys, right? They're going to be there all the time, but honestly speaking companies have spent so much time, and energy, and dollars on the wrong security products, right? Or focusing on the wrong stuff, and it was fine when you had a legacy, closed environment with no cloud, and no SAAS, but that's not the environment anybody lives in, especially a show like this. Everybody's using the cloud, it's like, the obvious thing, right? So, it should be obvious that these kind of controls need to be implemented. >> I agree. Just do the simple things. If you can do one or two simple things, multi-factor, absolutely. Just do these basic things. You will eliminate 80% of your risk. Do that first, then worry about the esoteric problems that are going to cost millions and millions of dollars to solve, just, you know, brush your teeth. Go for a walk. (John laughing) >> We define a maturity model of going towards Beyond Corp's slash zero trust, and the first thing on that maturity chart is identity assurance, i.e. multifactor authentication, and that's the first thing that organizations need to implement, and the issue is companies haven't implemented these products in the past, because they've been too expensive on-premise, hard to implement, not mobile friendly. So we're hoping once we're on Amazon's marketplace with the reach we've got with Amazon, we're going to see a lot of customers adopting those. So, it's good for us as a business, but ultimately it's good for enterprises. They're going to get safer, and our data is gonna be safeguarded, and so forth, which is the primary responsibility. >> I'm not sure. I think Justin just told you to take some time off. (laughing) I'm not sure. Bill, thanks for being with us. >> [Bill} Thank you very much. >> Thanks for the time, and congratulations on joining the marketplace, and we wish you continued success at Centrify. >> Cheers. Thank you. >> Thank you, sir. Bill Mann, Chief Product Officer at Centrify. Back with more here, Live at AWS. We're at re:Invent. Live at Las Vegas. Back with more on theCUBE, just in a bit. (techno music)