>>Fly from Barcelona, Spain. It's the cube covering Cisco live 2020s brought to you by Cisco and its ecosystem partners. >>Welcome back everyone cubes live coverage from Barcelona, Spain. We are here for Cisco live 20 twists to keeps coverage. I'm Chomper with myself. It goes to minimum. This has been four days of coverage. We got another day tomorrow. A lot of action around application developers and programmable infrastructure and really at the heart of this is hybrid cloud and multi-cloud, which is the future of where the enterprises are going. And really it's at the center of it is the suppliers, the cloud service providers. I say Cisco power. They've got two great guests and cube alumni. David cope, senior director of cloud business development, Cisco, Benjamin MacLean, EMIA chief product officer for three D S outscale. Guys, welcome back. Good to see you again. Thanks for coming. Benjamin. We talked to two years ago here I think was what the early days when we started publicly riffing on the notion of cloud service providers going to start to be really more instrumental in how enterprises will deploy and manage workloads and applications. So we were right, it turns out we were right. We >>went actually even even further than that is. Um, so now I'll scale is not only a primary care provider or now we also have a, an on prem solution. So you can uh, we can deploy all stacks, uh, on your prem with hardware, software and services. And we actually, uh, start building locally compliance, uh, stacks. So in France we actually got the second class certification for the French government and we are also working for the ITI FedRAMP certification for the U S >>great. Take a minute to give an update of the busy. You just had an acquisition, you're now part of a different company. Explain that and the relationship to the bigger company. >>So, um, I'll scale was actually founded in 2010 and we actually started to provide to be called services starting 2012, something like this. And a decile system was always one of the big customers. Um, they were actually transforming themselves from being a software vendor to a software as a service company, which is a huge move for a company this size. And we are actually supporting them going this direction and they felt that they needed, uh, to intern to have an internal support, uh, phone call services, uh, within the group so that we actually part of the family now. >>Well congratulations. But I think this trust of the larger trend, David, we talked about how cloud service right are going to be merged emerging as more of a focal point. The global system integrators are already doing it. This is a tell sign for how enterprises, large enterprises, they start to be thinking they need people to support them with multiple, their own stacks, their own in house teams supporting these new workloads. What's your thoughts on, >>well, I mean I think these guys are a great example of sort of the evolution we've seen with the cloud. I think came out of beta in 2008 or something like that. And, and since then we've seen cloud go through sort of skepticism, >>experimentation, debate about private versus public. But today I think both desires and also tools have enabled companies to start focusing just on their business and realize now they can place and manage workloads wherever their business priorities drive them, not it constraints. And so you can get the best of both worlds. You can support this agility and yeah, you can also start to manage governance and policies across these very different private and public environments. Benjamin, bring us a little bit inside your really hybrid solution. You're helping with customers. Uh, we've had many years looking at this. I've seen some providers say, Oh, we're going to help put a stack on your environment, but if you let it touch it, Oh well I need to adjust something or make a change. And then you know, if you're helping manage it, Oh wait, you're, you're out of compliance. You've done something different from an application standpoint. We have seen, I, I might have my monolith in my data center, I have microservices in the public cloud or you know, in your service provider there. It makes sense to do that. But help us understand kind of what goes where, who manages what and what's really happening for your customers. So, >>uh, we try to come in with a very simple approach where basically the perimeter of responsibility is the same everywhere you go. So whether you're on prem or into the cloud, you should see your focus on your application and your area of expertise as a company and being able to deliver to your customers. And um, so we just want to make sure that's focused for our customers. Very easy to say, okay, it's not because I'm on prem, then I need to do it jobs. I'm still need to manage the application. And um, since Oscar is actually providing both public cloud and on premise solution, we want to provide it with as much as solution isolation as possible. And that's one of the reasons why else get actually, uh, was integrated within Cisco cloud center. So we can actually live rate, uh, the governance across the board, the, the immersion 80 of of deploy, application, deployment, whatever, wherever you are. And it's exactly the same thing for the customer. You don't have to sacrifice anything because you're on frame or you want it to be out. >>What specifically about Cisco is driving that? Because you said a couple of things that caught my attention. One is you're providing a platform so the apps could work anywhere. I heard you kind of tease that that is that one of the things that Cisco is bringing to the table. What's the, what's the Cisco value there? >>For me it's um, we, I mean it's been like 40 years that this goes around and they always, uh, worked, uh, to actually bring bridges between platforms, between solutions, between companies. And I feel that the, exactly why we're actually using the solution. So it's different for each. It's not a network bridge for this one, it's more an application ratio. Uh, I would say a pipeline application bridge and that's where we actually find the value for us. Your >>thoughts real quick, go off on tangent a little bit on the operating model of cloud, cause we were riffing on this two years ago. This is now the big conversation here. Hybrid really is all about having that operating model, whether it's on public or on premises. How do you guys serving your customers when they have an app? Hey I got a dad, I just want to build my app. I don't care where it is and I have my operation gotta be seamless across. How are you implementing that? >>To be honest, I don't feel like it's like it's a, we are still, we are not there yet. I feel companies still struggle to actually uh, build an app, being able to deploy whatever the tenants they choose, whether it's going to be a to be cloud provider or an American one. They under your plan one or even a Chinese one now. And uh, all on trend. And since the stacks are always different, they always have to pay for the difference within this platform on their side. And I feel like the tools are actually helping these companies. So it's not actually the cloud providers making the Fort is usually the tools and the ecosystem around these providers are actually providing more tools and more solutions. So it's easier for the companies that actually manage the application at the end. >>David, maybe you can help us dig in a little bit to the management and the software that Cisco's uh, working on and delivering here to help with these type of environments. You know, the way I look at the world is is businesses have applications, applications run on infrastructure in the state of the industry today is you should no longer care about where that application is running. It's just infrastructure. It's in my data center. It's in somebody else's data center called the cloud. So the state of the business today is how do I create sort of a declarative model which describes my application independent of having to know the nuances of each of the end points and then be able to manage the entire life cycle from optimizing cost, performance placement and then the ongoing policy based governance. And for us, that management platform is cloud center, which is a cloud management platform. There's others in the industry that take a similar approach. But that really is where this blurring of data centers and clouds supporting any apps, uh, is, is occurring because your, what's some of the workloads that you guys work on? Give some anecdotal feedback on some of the day to day things you're working on. Is it on premise driving the action? Is that the app developers, your customers, but you have, you're serving multiple, a big company, right? >>Yeah. Um, from what I seen is, uh, we have a lot of traction on OnPrem solution because historically it's been, uh, usual stacks, which are usually lack of usability for the customers. Um, they are now used to use it to the public cloud, the features, the capabilities, the agility, and then where you'll go by, you're going back on frame. You, you, you feel like you're traveling time, bike and backwards. And that's, that's usually an issue, uh, with our solution where we don't change the level of responsibility of the customer. So it doesn't have to have a data center, people, operation people. It's still the same guys that were actually working into the public out and they are going to operate exactly the same way on prem. So that's a huge premise for this for these companies right now. Yeah. Yeah. Actually. Great. So we deployed a one like the beginning of this year to last year and it's gonna continue to grow. Uh, especially if you're a dental assistant company, uh, as a, >>I forgot to ask you as an expert then Nirvana, the Holy grail or whatever word we want to use is to have applications just completely have programmable infrastructure. That's the dev ops, you know, Holy grail, which we're getting there. Yeah. Where are we in your mind, how far do we have to go to get the app developers just coding away in the progress of innovation? What's your thoughts on where the industry is and what we're dealing with here? >>I think you can already do it. If you sacrifice a part of your freedom or your part or part of your possibility. We can find tools that actually working pretty well with each other. But once you're in, you're going to be in for at once. The issue is more always going to become a more standardized way to actually work for this company. And that means also for us providers to provide kind of assemble level of interface and the same which works. So the company, and I mean so apart from code center, like the application actually being able to work across infrastructure platforms, whatever they are, I be cloud center for the cross platform work. Yeah. So customer is one of these tools that actually kind of, uh, leverage different platforms and don't really care. And as a user, you don't really care all the difference you can deploy, whether it's going to be on VMware, on to the cloud, and you don't expect the same level of capability in terms of infrastructure. But still you still deploy exactly the same pipelines and some workloads exactly the same way. >>What do I have to think about it? Whether it's, whether it's so managing all of its operating divisions or whether it's it ops trying to manage its developers is there's this sort of natural, some usually unspoken tension where it ops wants to support the agility that developers are looking for in business units are looking for, but at the same time it ops is torn because they have to ensure governance and security and all that. So today I think with these new platforms you do a little bit of judo frankly, is you are allowed developers or operating units to use the environment or tools of choice, but you still have these new cloud management platforms that allow you to apply and enforce governance. And those policies can either be exposed to them or it can be hidden from them. You get to choose, well that's the choice is key in the policy. >>It means automation. Yes, the policies nailed down the business logic. Get automation exactly as the Holy wishes even better, which I'm psyched to see more of that. But I got to ask you guys, I stopped at your Cisco booth, your multi-cloud with this. By the way, I love the demos over there. You get all the Cisco servers, provide everything else, but you guys got a multi cloud section. Of course there's a lot of Kubernetes being discussed there. So Benjamin, I got to get your take on this because Stu and I always joke, the joke is just broke containers around it. You can do anything. You're dealing with a lot of on premises legacy and enterprise stuff Coubernetties and as service meshes come down the pike and micro services, that seems to be really a great way to deal with it. How were you looking at that? What's your vision and how, what are some of the practitioner tools that are out there? What's your view on that? >>For me, the appeal of communities for, for the customers is, uh, less, uh, a way to work than the fact that it's actually is, is a standout. So we are talking about the fact that wherever you are, you're always a, I think different APA calls a different way to educate yourself differently. Policy management. And I feel that the appeal of communities is that you can use it over any cloud platform in the world. And he's always failed to send me, they always behave the same way and he's kind of the promise. The same is that you can get with containers, but you get it on the orchestration layer of these containers. Uh, and I feel that that's why people are quite rushing into it because they feel that if it doesn't work there, then it might work somewhere else. >>So are you dealing with some of these enterprise applications? What do you guys do? >>Um, so the interest for se, so we just, we provide, uh, the control plane or the master nodes and usually customers see or manage the resources or the, the resource pool, uh, on which they're going to deploy containers in whatever we S we still manage mostly VMs and block storage. So the, the basic breaks of any, uh, infrastructure as a service provider and um, and the customers start from there and actually build on the application and they can even reuse things that have been done somewhere else. Uh, in any other cloud platform. >>David, talk about the Cisco vision here because I think you guys have been seeing this now. I used the multi-cloud is kind of a future state that's out. See everyone has multicloud now, but hybrid is where the action is and this by getting this common operating model with you've got these Kubernetes trends and things coming down the pipe with micro services that really is impacting the momentum. How do you guys see that? What's your position on this? >> I think you're right. I mean when you look at Kubernetes specifically, I think it's obviously maturing from just developer centric activities now into production. Most Kubernetes today, it has been deployed on prem or in the cloud, but now that's the foundation that's going to enable the future of hybrid workloads where I can start again. Blurring the boundaries between data centers and clouds develop on the cloud, prod on prem, develop on prem, access to service on the cloud. >>So we're just starting to see sort of these hybrid Coobernetti's workflows. And Cisco has a container platform that's native Kubernetes but we've also, it runs on prem but it's also optimized to work with public clouds that support Kubernetes. And so it really becomes a single environment, a pool of resources for the application. >> I think it sets the table nicely for the app developers, the future because end of the day students just develop your app and yeah, things go and happen. Benjamin, final question while you're here. I want to get your expert opinion on this because I want to kind of go back to our 2018 and modernized our chat a little bit around cloud service providers because I think this is still going to be the hottest area because I think you are, you're a unique, you got acquired and you're still servicing a big customer base, but you're now part of the mother I guess. Um, which is good. You got a lot of work to do, but cloud service providers will still serve as a lot of customers and this is going to be a fast growing market. What's your advice for other cloud service providers out there that are really trying to understand how do I build my infrastructure? How do I deal with the clouds? Do I just go all in on one, do I build my own? How do I serve as the on premises? What's your advice? >>I think like if your company, a main area of expertise is not it, you shouldn't actually invest, uh, in house. Its, I think nowadays we, you, we have like, and I'm not talking only about our scale, but we have like a lot of different solution, a lot of, uh, technological partners such as Cisco and NetApp, uh, that have a great solution that actually proven, uh, there is solution as ourselves. So at scale. Um, so I feel like anything that you do try to be or from the ground, uh, would have a huge advantage in terms of, of time of technology. Um, and again, for any other cloud provider. I think also we're going to see kind of the separation we're talking about in 2018 is still going to continue to exist and I think it's going to even increase where we're going to see, um, local compliance or great regulation. I actually for the past two years, uh, dramatically increased in terms of of strengths and numbers and uh, and that, and I feel like the approach of Muti local cloud as we've been pushing for the past 10 years within our scale, it makes even more sense. >>Do you see specialty clouds emerging fast or are building on say Amazon, Google or other clouds or what do you see? >>Yeah, to be honest, I even think that the, the big three in the U S are even starting to find their own place, which is not the same. And I feel we're going to see the same thing with the Chinese and reopen actors as well. >>Awesome. Benjamin's great to have you on. Great to have your insight from the field. Appreciate David. Thanks for coming on. I appreciate that insight from Cisco as well. It's the cube coverage day. Three of our four days of coverage on shofar is do men and men stay with us for more coverage from Barcelona after this short break?