>>From Las Vegas, it's the cube cuddle EMC world 2016, brought to you by EMC. Now your host, John furrier. Welcome >>Back everyone. We are here, live in Las Vegas for EMC world 2012. I'm John Ferrari, the founder of Silicon angle and host of the cube. And we are extracting the signal from noise. And one of our traditions at EMC world is to do a conversation and panel discussion around women of the world with Stella Lowe, who is VP of global communications for EMC and Susan Carter, Nico, who's the founder and CEO of authentic leadership. Stella. Every year we do this as one of my favorite things. As we wrap up EMC world, soon, it may be Dell world or Dell EMC, whatever that kind of turns into. Yeah, I wish you can't comment. Cause your communications is, is to talk about kind of the human side of what's going on. And the theme for EMC was modernization of enterprise, you know, infrastructure, speed, performance, scalability. And you've taken this theme this year with women of the world to modernizing your career in an era of change. And tell me about what that was this year. >>Yeah, absolutely. John. So yeah, we were in this, um, tech industry is changing all the time, but right now we're in this kind of unprecedented change. Um, you, this, this is gonna be a lot of consolidations is the thinking over the next two years, a lot of people find a lot of companies finding their dance partners. In some ways we've already found our dance partner, which is Dell, but there's gonna be a lot of that going on. And um, and there's definitely a lot of change happening here at EMC. So we wanted to make sure that we were focusing on how to own modernize and direct your career within this sea of tremendous James. >>So Susan, I want to get your take on this because we are living as the theme of the show is, is a transformation happening, which means there are certainly change and there's big bets being made in the business that requires people process and technology transformation. People is a big part of it. And people have to be bold. There's some gambling, there's some bets and with that will come maybe some missteps or some failures and how you can overcome that will define ultimately your success to take maybe little failures, not big failures, but like, but this is part of the evolution of innovation. How does that affect people, specifically women, as they're in this now converge workforce, male, men and women coming together. What's your thoughts on this? >>Well, men and women alike change is hard, right? So as industries converge as merchants and acquisitions happen, you know, the industry itself is in such a massive transformation mode. It's requiring people of all of all levels and in all fields, but particularly in the world of technology to completely redefine their skillsets, their relevance, the way they're going to actually help sort of step into this new era of digital technology. So it's causing, you know, ripple effects of reinvention and change all over the place. You know, we all to change as human beings at a very personal level. What does it mean for me? And so a big part of what we discussed today at the conference was just, how do you sort of lean into that change and how can you begin to look at your own potential and your own skillsets from, with a different lens? >>You know, um, we tend to box ourselves in as far as our potential goes and we say, okay, I've been in this functional area for all of my career. So I guess my opportunities sit squarely in this box. And we talked a lot about the value of sort of reinventing and taking a hard look at our transferable skill sets. So the attributes that we have as, as human beings that could let be leveraged into other roles or expanded roles and the skill sets that have made us so successful in what we're doing today. So how might we bust that open and find new opportunities in this world of change? And it's pretty important that we do it now. I mean, there was a, um, it was announced just a few days ago that in 2015, there were 359 new CEOs announced, uh, in the top two and a half thousand companies around the world. Only 10 were women, John 10, 10 out of 359. It's shocking. So if we're going to change, reverse that trend, we've got to start reversing that rate from that >>Consistent though across all industry, even venture capital, which has really highlighted in Silicon Valley where we live and that's obvious a male dominate, but now there's no women VCs. Now cowboy ventures is a bunch of them that are coming together and Hey, we can play ball each other. >>What does it surprise you that there's less women learning about tech now learning, you know, in tech education now than there was in the eighties? I mean, so, so we've already got to grapple with this and, and, and change the course of this. And, and women have got to start taking responsibility for their own careers and their own direction. >>What are some of the stories that you've heard this week at, at your event, as you guys talk with each other, what are some of the common patterns and stories that you're hearing? >>So we're certainly hearing from the women in the room, but they see that the impending change as exciting as an opportunity, but they're also, there's also some things anxiety around that change. There's definitely fear there and that's what we're seeing. Um, you know, and, and, um, you know, they need, people need to take that fair and use it as a catalyst for positive things. Right, right. I mean, 10 people tend to shut down when they're in environments of fear. And one of the things that we talked a great deal about was how do you sort of turn that around and, um, use that as a catalyst to take stock in not only sort of what your inherent capabilities are, but your vision for your life and the values that you hold dear and say, okay. So if my job serves my life, then what is my end game and what steps in choices can I make, you know, putting myself back in the driver's seat versus letting this this change. That's sort of at the, both of my macro level and the micro level, like sweet meander and, and, and create a, of a victim mentality. We talked a lot about sort of that empowerment and the accountability to sort of take charge of your own desks. >>It's interesting. You mentioned leaned in earlier. So Sheryl Sandberg's in my community in Palo Alto, Facebook friend, you know, where I'm involved a lot with some Facebook stuff. And I put, I've been following her lean in and I want to bring this up is you mentioned the word fearless. Um, you know, I've been called fearless, fearless. That's a guy thing, right. Guys can be fearless. Is it okay for women to be fearless and is lean in a fearless kind of vibes? It's not so much, I don't wanna get semantically tied on views, but this brings up a point that people get stuck on the semantics, but that kind of is a bias thing. Be more fearless and you'll get ahead versus lean in is a guess could be construed as a female version of fearless, the words matter. But at the same day, how does a woman become fearless? It doesn't matter. Yeah. >>So the other speaker that we had on the panel today, we were very lucky also to have Rashma, um, uh Rashma Sudani uh, and she, she, um, has the company, uh, founded the company, girls who code, and she says that women were brought up to be, uh, perfect. Whereas boys were brought up to be brave. So it's okay for a boy to climb a tree and go to the top. But with girls were like, no, no, sit in the chair, look pretty, be nice, you know, but be perfect. Um, and so women are very scared to go into areas that don't know because they're worried about making mistakes. And what we were trying to get over today was imperfection is okay, it's okay to make mistakes. It's okay to, you know, and you've got to get kind of get over that fear to do that. >>And it's the attributes Susan. So a woman and a man, they have different attributes. So maybe fearless my, Oh, he's feeling at the top of the tree, but every attribute in a diverse environment can contribute to a common outcome that makes it better. I mean, that's kind of the theme that I'm seeing. >>It's true. Um, fearlessness in you say words matter, uh, concept is kind of the same. We talked a lot about self con self-confidence and the, the contrast in the sexes, uh, when it comes to self-confidence and then so many women seem to sort of stop short of having that self confidence to step out and you say, be fearless to take risk to just sort of seize that moment and say, you know, what, if it doesn't work out, I can choose again. There's we just seem to stop short of being able to do that, where guys seem to be a little bit more comfortable. And part of it is the way we're raised, you know, women to be perfect. And we tend to be very, very quiet about those failures. And so it kind of sends that message. Like, I really need to set a stay away from those arenas where I just, I might not be a stunning success. >>So there was some discussion around men versus women in the imposter syndrome, which tends to afflict a lot of women, particularly women in business, where we kind of doubt our own worth as, as a leader, as a professional. And there's this fear that, you know, at some point we're going to be found out that we're really not as good as others around us think we are. And that drives a certain kind of behavior in the workplace. So, you know, um, workaholism, perfectionism, procrastination, just so afraid to make a mistake and be found out. So, you know, that seems to be, um, more characteristic of females than males. Um, there are just a lot of, there's a lot of complexity around >>The guys that are faking it, that good will be found out. It may be, maybe there's a thing there, but modernizing your career though. That's the theme? What is the pattern that, what does that mean? I mean, how, how do you talk to that? Because everyone wants, I mean, who doesn't want to be modern, right. And we're in the modern era, we want to be happy. We want to be cool when advance, okay. Advancement means you're climbing the ladder or you're, you're trying something new, which means you will fall and stumble. We all stumble when we learn is that part of the modernization is dealing with the environment and the change and the failure. >>Yeah, it is. In fact, um, the first thing that we talked about was the need to be incredibly strategic in this environment, we're business people. And when facing any business challenge, you tend to do scenario planning, right? And you say, well, if this happens, here's my strategy. Uh, if that happens, here's my strategy. So you say worst case, best case likely case. And, and when you start to develop strategies around how you're going to navigate those things, it gives you additional power and confidence to sort of move forward in your redefinition. So that's sort of that the first step in modernizing your career, we also talked a bit a bit ago about, um, understanding where you might have some self limiting beliefs about where you might play, you know, the, what arena, where you might, you might sit and so starting to sort of broaden your horizons. >>Um, yeah, definitely. I mean, uh, women will look at a job spec, um, and have a completely different perspective from men. So men will look at it and they'll say, well, I can do about 38% of this. So I'm going to go for this job. Um, women will look at it unless they can do 85% of it, or they've done that they have experienced in 85% of it. They won't even go for the job. So we have to start to really broaden our view of the types of jobs we can go for the types of opportunities we can go for and start to think more, well, much more openly. So be >>More aggressive on the job. Applicants was one was >>One. Yeah. Broaden your horizons. Think about this, the transferable skill sets that you have, that you can take into other areas. And, and don't be, don't be fair fearful of things that you haven't done before. >>So I had a public failure startup that was very funded and then the public failure and it's traumatizing. And I dealt with that and you know, this whole failure is rewarded in Silicon Valley. That's BS, in my opinion, people tolerate failure, but they loved the comeback. That's part of learning is coming back. And, but, you know, and so I had to deal with that until I was in my own way as a guy, but there's a post in Silicon Valley going around today, around a woman who failed. And she didn't know whether she should be vulnerable or just be that what'd you call it the imposter syndrome, fake it till you make it. And she was saying, no, I want to be vulnerable. Because what she found is by being vulnerable, people were helping her. So that brings up the concept of vulnerability, male, female, and two in the modern world. We have social networks now. So lean is a great example of some gravity around peer groups. Can you guys talk about that? Does that come up at all on your radar, in terms of the dynamic there around men versus women being vulnerable versus being strong and also the notion of networks and how that could be? >>Well, I think vulnerability is often tied to shame and that fear of shame causes people to hold back in sharing their real stories. You said something very important and that's that people care about what you've learned along the way. They don't necessarily care about what, you know, they care about what you've learned. Most people are comfortable talking about what they've learned when they're on the other side of that. So it's not in the, in the middle of that trail here, when you are just feeling horrible, you're feeling horrible. You're feeling like a failure. You're feeling embarrassed, you're feeling shame. So the ability to kind of step up to that is it's a tall order. Now you talked about social networks in this environment of social media. Authenticity is so important, right? So it's that happy balance. If you're not all that comfortable with being completely naked in that vulnerability, maybe there's a happy medium where you can share some of the challenges and things that you've been facing while not necessarily going all the way down to the, you know, to the bare nub of it. Um, I think we're right. >>So authenticity will track the right alchemy of, of help or it relationship as a way to signal to people. I mean, I guess, and that's just me. I love this concept. I mean, I feel like I should get you guys with my life coach. This is my lifestyle. So this is the next one. So, okay. So that's cool. I love that theme. I love this topic because that really helps you get through to the other side and gain to the other side. You're on the comeback. That's a learning what you've learned and applying what you've learned is a growth mindset. Now there's a lot of women, my age, I'm 50 that I've grown through the ranks and they get up to the top. And you mentioned the numbers, aren't that significant on the seat level of women it's lonely yet. They're being asked to be mentors down to the new generation of ladies coming up or women. And, but they're lonely at the top. How do they deal with that? As you're moving closer to the top, have they talked about that >>Only at the top? And I would like still, I was a senior executive at a big company and found that loneliness to be quite palpable. Right? Um, it's part of the choice you make to be in that arena, stepping up to that position of leadership. It often means that you're distancing yourself. You're being more, you're more concerned with being respected than you are being liked. And you know, there there's a, there's a new game, right? New parameters around your relationships like CEO's, um, who find solace in their peer relationships. I think that same goes for women. You know, you, you need to actively cultivate your formal and informal networks and they may be with, with, uh, peers outside of your company, outside of your functional area. Those relationships though are so important because you can become isolated and insulated. Um, people may not always come to you with the, with the truth. >>And so, you know, making sure that you keep those lines of communication and mutual support open is really pivotal. Now you mentioned mentorship. Um, I think it is incumbent on senior women to reach down and find opportunities to mentor other women and sponsor other women. You know, there's mentorship and sponsorship, and both are crucial in terms of sort of direct feedback and developmental advice on the mentorship side, but then sponsorship literally actively opening doors for other women and, and reaching a hand and helping them come up to because that's often where we find a gap. People think I had to claw my way up. It was a lot of work. So I'm just going to sort of protect myself and hang out and let everybody else kind of go on their own journey. We talked a lot today about the need to sort of reach down and help other women. >>So the takeaway there is develop your formal informal networks. That's a foundational really critical linchpin to the whole success. Um, what about now, as we look at the progression going forward, um, the skill development, you mentioned the job applications, a lot of these jobs that are going to come with the next industrial revolution as Michael Dell was pointing out, don't even exist today. So there might be an opportunity here as we look to the future. Did that come up at all on the radar of your sessions? >>Well, we talked, I think it comes back to really transferable skill sets. You need to take a look at what, what you do and who you are, bring it up a level because I got to tell you if you can manage well in ambiguity, if you can lead and motivate people. I mean, if you, there, there are certain attributes that, that pick the job. Yeah. If you have those, if you have those attributes and those skills, you can learn a discipline, but those inherent leadership skills are going to pay off the big time as this industry continues to redefine. And as you say, jobs that we don't even know exist yet, suddenly come onto the table. >>What surprises you the most in this, in the conversation around modernization, as you talk with folks out there, what's a trend that surprised you that you kind of knew about, but, Oh my God, this is really more acute or more explosive than in a good way, or in bad way. Anything you can share, like the literally like, wow, this is really more pressing than I thought, or this is actually more amazing than I thought. >>Yeah. Um, one of the things the Rushman talked about is women supporting other women. I mean, sometimes we are the worst critics of other women and, uh, you know, female bosses can be harder on female employees and so on. And I think there's got to be that kind of sisterhood, um, uh, around, uh, all of us have been bring women up as, as, um, Susan has said, support other women, uh, make sure that you are their back and they are watching yours. And, uh, it will help with the loneliness factor, but it also helps to, to bring women forward. And I think that's always a surprise to me that women don't want to do that. And they, and they don't want to get involved in that. We should be paying that back and paying it. >>So is there anything that surprised you looking back at, and then the constitution here? >>I think I would echo what Stella said. It's, um, it's important to understand the role you may be playing in the plight that faces you. So, you know, we talk about women sometimes being their own worst enemy and trying to, to again, modernize and redefine what that relationship looks like and what that success looks like and how accountable we each are for, you know, moving forward and pushing the envelope. >>Okay. Final question. If you guys could each answer, this would be great. What advice would you give the people watching here live, and then on demand things that they could do to modernize their career in this change, uh, advice that you can surface and share insight around their opportunity, things that they could do differently or new, or, >>Yeah, I'll let Susan have the last word on this. Cause you'll have some fabulous advice, but you know, one thing I would say is, is, uh, be comfortable in your imperfection. You don't have to be perfect. You'd go for it, widen your spear of opportunities and, uh, you know, Matt Mo uh, Charlotte, your way and, and dream bigger and he dreamed bigger. You might, you know, you'll get somewhere bigger. Very good. Um, I would say first and foremost, one of the best things that you can do is challenge some of the beliefs that you might hold about what your potential next steps or career path might be, um, get clear on what your end game is for your life and what your values are, because that becomes a very important lens through which to view future opportunity, get, get really clear that you can always choose. >>Again. I think this fear of making a mistake and that you talked about fearlessness, um, you know, I think people tend to, to limit their opportunities because they think, wow, if I make this choice and it's mistake, then I'm done, but you can just turn around and make a new choice and begin again. And there are limitless choices that you can make. So a lot of this I find is mindset related. You know, we're heading into a, we are in a highly turbulent time. It's going to continue. We need to be agile in our thinking part of that is getting grounded in who we are and what are our potential could be getting clear on what we want because our jobs serve our life, not the, not the other way around and really sort of getting into the driver's seat versus letting whatever the change is, whether it's up here, the industry consolidation level, or whether it's down in, whether we're in the middle of a merger, or we've just gotten a new boss that we don't particularly click with, we can default to a victim mentality. So part of this is just saying, you know what, I am going to pick this thing up and I am going to manage to the change myself >>And we are living in a world where there's great opportunities, women of the world. Great segment. Thank you so much, Stella. We thank you so much, Susan, really great to have you guys sharing your insight here on the cube. Um, congratulations again, always my favorite conversation. I learned a lot, um, and I love, I feel like I'm learning so much and this is a world of diversity and it's great. And the outcome is diversity is fantastic. And I think that's what everyone's seeing. So congratulations on the great work. This is the queue here at EMC world 2016. I'm John for a, you're watching the cube >>Looking back at the history of it.

>>Live from Las Vegas, Nevada. It's the cube covering EMC world 2015. Brought to you by EMC, Brocade and VCE. >>Okay. Welcome back everyone. We are live here in Las Vegas with the cube at EMC real 2015. I'm John ferry, the founder of Silicon Ang. I'm joined with two special guests. Stella Lowe. Who's the global communications at EMC runs, global communications and Amy Posey, neuro facilitator at peak teams. Welcome to the cube. >>So >>You had a session women of the world. We did it last year, but great cube session last year. Um, so I want to get a couple of quick questions. What's going on with women of the world, what you guys just came from there and you guys were on the panel and then what is a neuro facilitator? And then let's get into it. Let's talk about men and women, how we work together. >>Okay, great. So let's start with women of world. So, um, so last year we talked about the challenges that we face and how we reframe them into opportunities that we had some fantastic panelists, but this year I was really interested in the science behind men and women. So it's clear that we're different and we're all bled for success, but, but we're wired differently. And we kind of knew that already. I know we talked about it before John, but we now have the science behind it. We can look at brain scans and we can see that we, Oh, we have different brain patterns. We think differently, uh, different parts of the brain fire fire up when, in times of motivation and stress and people like Amy here, who've done lots of work into this, have having the stages. It was great to have her on the panel to discuss it. >>I'm going to give you a plug because EMC does all kinds of things with formula one cars, motorcycles, getting the data and understanding the race. But now you're dealing with people. So what is going on? Tell us what's up neuro facilitator and let's >>So a neuro facilitator is maybe the best made up job title in the world that I gave myself. So essentially what I do is I look at information about the brain and I curate the research that's out there. So there's a lot of new technology to actually read and look inside our heads. We all have a brain, but we don't necessarily all know how it works. So there's a lot more research and, and tools to read our brains and take a look inside. So what I do is I take that research and, and work with, um, neuroscientists and neurobiologist at Stanford, Columbia, UCLA, and, and reach out and figure out how do we take that information and make it easier, still attain. And I do it in the scope of leadership at organizations like EMC and other technology companies to figure out how do we work better? What information is out there? You know, soft skills and sort of relationship skills. I've always been sort of squishy, right? So now there's a lot more science and information about our brains that are informing it. The, the data's out there, what I do and what my job is, is to pull the data and figure out how do we make it into practical, useful applications for us at work at home, wherever we are. So that's essentially, I'm doing so you >>Guys discussed and how men and women are different. Actually look at the data. We have to give a lot of qualitative data. I mean, it keeps counselors in business. You know, the grant in the workforce, uh, balance is important, but we have a lot of that data, but what's the numbers. What is your findings? So >>What's interesting is looking at men and women's brains. What's fascinating is that we are more alike than dissimilar in looking at a brain. If you looked at a brain scan, one of a man and woman, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the two, but they're now finding and looking at different parts of the brain in different functions. So for instance, men have approximately 6% more gray matter than women. So in terms of the gray matter, that's the thinking brain essentially, and women have more white matter than gray. Matter about 9% more than men. And the white matter is what connects the brain and communicate both front and back and side to side. And so you can make some extrapolation of that information and say, you know, men may focus more on issues, solutions, problems, whereas women sort of think more broadly or wider. >>So, I mean, there are generalities, but a lot of the sciences is fascinating. There's also some interesting science about the hippocampus, which is, um, sort of deep. If this is your brain, it's deep inside the brain and the hippocampus is the memory center. And it's what they're finding is that for women, they tend to store emotional memories more effectively. So happy, sad, fearful those types of emotions get stored more effectively in the hippocampus. Whereas men oftentimes during stress, the hippocampus actually has a challenge in making connections. So that's where, again, some of the, the focus and determination and silo viewed sometimes that men have in situations or problems comes into play. Um, there's one other piece, the anterior cingulate cortex, which is sort of within the brain and that's the brains error detector. And it turns out it's a little bit bigger in women. So women sort of tend to look for, uh, issues CA you know, problems, um, maybe less solution focused, especially under times of stress and, and a lot of this, data's interesting. >>It, it causes you to make some generalities, you know, not everybody is going to operate in that way. Your mileage may theory, but it's, it's good because it helps us inform some of the quirky behavior that we deal with at work and figuring out why, why don't you do that? Why do you do that and installed that women being better or women using more of the brain or less of the brain it's, it's, it's simply about we, we, if all brains away from differently, we both bring different things to the table. And how do you take both of those benefits and bring them forward into a better outcomes? >>Always great to talk about because in the workforce, people are different. And so differences is a term that we use, like, you know, with kids learn differently, some have evolved differently and men and women have had differences. So the data shows that that's clear. Um, I want to share a quote that my wife shared on Facebook. It says mother, um, well, a worried mother does better research than the FBI. So, um, I bring that up, you know, it's instinctual. So a lot of it's also biological and also environmental talk about the dynamics around that, that wiring, because you're wired by your upbringing too, that affects you. And what's the, what's the data show in the biology. >>So it's interesting because the, the key piece is that it's not just the biological brain differences. It's, it's a whole host of factors that leave a footprint on us, in our behavior. So it's our education, it's our, uh, you know, where we, where we grew up, our culture is part of that. It's also gender stereotypes that play a role in how we operate. And I think all of those things leave a footprint on a, an and lead us to different behaviors. And so you can't just say it's the, the, the information that's on our brains. It's a whole host of factors that influence. So my study of looking at how the brains are a little bit different and what the research is coming, it's, it's blended in with research around leadership and things like confidence and motivation in the workplace bias in the workplace. And they're, they're showing very different things. >>So for instance, if you think about confidence, we did an interesting exercise in the event at women of world. And I asked, you know, there's, there's a lot about confidence and confidence is essentially the will or motivation to act. So how many women in the room, uh, would raise the, you know, go up for a job that they were really interested in and fascinated by, but maybe weren't a hundred percent qualified for, like, how many of you have maybe turned down that job or decided not to apply because it wasn't the right time. Like you, you're pretty competent, but not a hundred percent confident in it. And it was funny because the majority, all the women's hands went up in the room. So then I asked him, I flipped the question in the room and I asked the men in the room. I said, okay, if you were only about 50% confident for a job that you were going up for, would you, of course, right. Like, yes, I >>Fabricate some stuff on their resume and you make >>Them look bigger. So, exactly. So what's interesting is testosterone plays a role in confidence and motivation at work. And it turns out men have 10 times the amount of testosterone as women do. So part of that is that aggression, but we both have it, but that, that aggressive factor, that idea to go after something, to be more confident, um, women are behind the curve in that, from the research that I've seen. So it takes more effort to, to, to be able to have the confidence, to go for it and to sort of break down those barriers that exist for women to, to go after those jobs that they want, even if it's not a hundred percent. And so we did a, an exercise in boosting confidence in testosterone called power posing. And Amy Cuddy out of Harvard does a, a whole Ted talk on it, which is fascinating. >>But the idea is that you, you know, you, you put your chest back, you put your hands on your hips and it helps boost your testosterone up to about 20%. And it reduces cortisol, which is a stress hormone. So it's a, it's a quick way. You don't do it in front of people. You do it sort of on the sly or else you kind of, you don't look very nice to others, but you, you boost your confidence doing that. And it's just a small sort of brain hack that you can do to give yourself an upper hand, knowing that knowing the science behind it. So it's a behavior changing type of research that's coming out, which I think is really, >>That's really interesting, but now it translates into leadership and execution in the workforce. So people are different than men and women are different that changes the dynamic around what good is, because if your point about women not asking for that job or having confidence to the field, like I'm not going to go for it, like a man bravado, whatever testosterone that's what mean that that's the benchmark of what drive means. So this came up with Microsoft CEO at the Anita board conferences, which we had a cube there. And, and this is a big issue. So how do HR, how do the managers, how do people recognize the differences and what does the data show, and, and can you share your thoughts on that? >>Yeah, so I think a lot of it comes down to bias and bias is essentially a shortcut that we use in our brains to take less energy. And it's not a bad thing. It's, it's something we all do. And it's conscious and it's unconscious. So bias, I think is a key piece of that. And the research on bias is fascinating. It's very, it's, it's very popular topic these days, because I think being able to do a couple of things, be aware that there are hundreds of biases and they're both conscious and unconscious, uh, acknowledge that it exists, but not legitimize it not make that. Okay. The third piece is to, to counter it and, and being able to counter bias by making sure that people have opportunities. And even though you may have re removed hypothetical barriers explicitly stating that you want people, men, or women to apply for promotions, be this type of leader, not just assume that because there are no barriers that it's okay, but really be explicit in how you give people opportunities and let them know that they're out there. I think that's really key. >>Yeah. That brings up the point around work life balance, because, you know, I have a family of four, four kids it's stressful just in and of itself to have four kids, but then I go to the workforce and the same with women too. So there's also a home dynamic with leadership and biases and roles. Um, what's your take on any data on the how of that shifting persona realities, if you will, um, shapes the data. >>It's interesting because it's, it's something that we even talked about in the session that it's a struggle and, and, um, Bev career from Intel was talking about that. There's a period of time that actually is really tough to keep women in the workforce. And it's that time where you're growing your family, you're growing your career. And oftentimes things sort of struggle. And I, I read something recently around women in STEM careers, over a 10-year period, 42% of women drop out of the workforce in comparison to 17% of men. And so I think there's a lot, a ways to go in terms of being able to set up environments where working life is integrated, because it's, it's not even balanced anymore. It's integration. And how do you set up structures so that people can do that through how they work through how they connect with others. And, and to me, that's a big piece is how do you keep people in the workforce and still contributing in that critical point in time? And, you know, Intel hasn't figured it out. It's a tough challenge, >>Stamina. We're a big fans of women in tech, obviously because we love tech athletes. We'd love to promote people who are rock stars and technology, whether it's developers to leaders. And I also have a daughter, two daughters. And so two questions. One is women in tech, anything you could share that the data can talk to, to either inspire or give some insight and to, for the young women out there that might not have that cultural baggage, that my generation, at least our worse than older than me have from the previous bias. So motivating young daughters out there, and then how you deal with the career advice for existing women. >>So the motivating young women to get into tech, um, Bev shared a really absolutely fascinating statistic that between the ages of 12 and 18, it's incredibly important to have a male support model for young girls to get into STEM careers, that it was absolutely critical for their success. And it's funny because the question came up like, why can't that be a woman too? And what's interesting. And what we find is oftentimes we give men the short shrift when they try and support women, and we don't want to do that. We want to support men supporting women because when that happens, we all win. Um, and so I think that's a big piece of it is starting young and starting with male support as well as female support. So many women who, who cite men as, as he had mental was in that gray, you know, or in their daily life. And it's pretty important that they can feel that they can do that. >>And this goes back down the wiring data that you have the data on how we're were wired. It's okay, guys, to understand that it's not an apples to apples. So to speak, men are from Mars. Women are from beans, whatever that phrase is, but that's really what the data is. >>And being explicit to men to say, we want you to support women instead of having men take a back seat feeling like maybe this isn't my battle to fight. It's, it's really important to then encourage men to speak up to in those, those situations to, to think about sort of women in tech. One of, uh, a really interesting piece of research that I've seen is about team intelligence and what happens on teams and Anita Willy from Carnegie Mellon produced this really fascinating piece of research on the three things that a team needs to be more intelligent. It's not just getting the smartest people in the room with the highest IQ. That's a part of it. You want table stakes, you want to start with smart people, but she found that having women, more women on a team actually improved the team's overall intelligence, the collective intelligence and success of a team. So more women was the first one. The second was there's this ability and women tend to be better at it, but the ability to read someone's thoughts and emotions just by looking at their eyes. So it's called breeding in the mind's eye. So just taking a look and being able to sense behavior, um, and, and what someone's thinking and feeling, and then being able to adjust to that and pivot on that, not just focusing on the task at hand, but the cohesion of a team with that skill made a difference. >>It's like if it's a total team sport, now that's what you're saying in terms of how use sport analogy, but women now you see women's sports is booming. This brings up my, my, your, uh, awesome research that you just did for the folks out there. Stella was leading this information generation study and the diversity of use cases now with tech, which is why we love tech so much. It's not just the geeky programmer, traditional nail role. You mentioned team, you've got UX design. You have, um, real time agile. So you have more of a, whether it's a rowing analogy or whatever sport or music, collaboration, collaboration is key. And there's so many new disciplines. I mean, I'll share data that I have on the cube looking at all the six years and then even women and men, the pattern that's coming up is women love the visualization. It's weird. I don't know if that's just so it's in the data, but like data scientists that render into reporting and visualization, not like just making slides like in the data. Yeah. So, but they're not writing, maybe not Python code. So what do you guys see similar patterns in terms of, uh, information generation, it's sexy to have an iWatch. It's >>Cool. So like a cry from Intel on the panel, she gave a great statistic that actually, uh, it's more it's women that are more likely to make a decision on consumer tech than men. And yet a lot of the focus is about trying to build tech for men, uh, on the, you know, if consumer tech companies want to get this right, they need to start thinking about what are women looking for, uh, because, uh, they're the ones that are out there making these decisions, the majority of those decisions. >>Yeah. I mean, it's an old thing back in the day when I was in co, um, right out of college and doing my first startup was the wife test. Yeah. Everything goes by the wife because you want to have collaborative decision-making and that's kind of been seen as a negative bias or reinforcement bias, but I think what guys mean is like, they want to get their partner involved. Yeah. So how do, how do we change the biases? And you know, where I've talked to a guy who said, the word geek is reinforcing a bias or nerd where like, I use that term all the time, um, with science, is there, I mean, we had the, the lawsuit with Kleiner Perkins around the gender discrimination. She wasn't included. I mean, what's your take on all of this? I mean, how does someone practically take the data and put it into practice? >>I think the big thing is, you know, like I said, acknowledging that it exists, right? It's out there. We've been, I feel like our brains haven't necessarily adapted to the modern workplace and the challenges that we've dealt with because the modern workplace is something that was invented in the 1960s and our brains have evolved over a long time. So being able to handle some of the challenges that we have, especially on how men and women operate differently at the workplace, I think is key, but calling it out and making it okay to acknowledge it, but then counter where it needs to be countered where it's not right. And being explicit and having the conversations I think is the big piece. And that's what struck me with the Kleiner Perkins deal was let's have the conversation it's out there. A lot of times people are reticent to, to have the conversation because it's awkward and I need to be PC. And I'm worried about things. It's the elephant in the room, right. But it actually is. Dialogue is far better than leaving it. >>People are afraid. I mean, guys are afraid. Women are afraid. So it's a negative cycle. If it's not an out in the open, that's what I'm saying. >>And the idea is it's, what can we do collectively better to, to be more positive, to, to frame it more positively, because I think that makes a bigger difference in terms, in terms of talking about, Oh, we're different. How are we the same? How can we work together? What is the, the connection point that you bring, you bring, we all bring different skills and talents to the table. I think it's really taking a look at that and talking about it and calling it out and say, I'm not great at this. You're great at this. Let's, let's work together on what we can do, uh, more effectively, >>Okay. Team sports is great. And the diversity of workforce and tech is an issue. That's awesome. So I'd ask you to kind of a different question for both of you guys. What's the biggest surprise in the data and it could be what reinforced the belief or insight into something new share, uh, a surprise. Um, it could be pleasant or creepy or share it. >>Price to me is intuition. So we always talk about women having intuitions. I've had men say, you know, well, my wife is so intuitive. She kind of, she kinda gets that and I've had that in the workplace as well. And I think the biggest surprise for me was that we can now see, we've now proved the intuition. Intuition is a thing that women have, and it's about this kind of web thinking and connecting the dots. Yeah. So we sort of store these memories deep, deep inside. And then when we see something similar, we then make that connection. We call it intuition, but it's actually something it's a kind of a, you know, super recall if you like, and, and, and replaying that situation. But that I think was the biggest surprise to me, Amy. So I would think that the thing that, that always astonishes me is the workplace environment and how we set up environments sometimes to shoot ourselves in the foot. >>So, so often we'll set up, uh, a competitive environment, whatever it is, let's let's and it's internal competition. Well, it turns out that the way that the brain chemicals work in women is that competition actually froze us into, to stress or threat cycle much more easily than it does to men, but men need it to be able to get to optimal arousal. There's a lot of interesting research from Amy Ernest in, at Yale and, and that piece of how you can manipulate your environment to be more successful together to me is absolutely key. And being able to pull out elements of competition, but also elements of collaboration, you kind of knew it, but the science validates it and you go, this is why we need to make sure there's a balance between the two. So everyone's successful. So to me, that's the aha. I could listen to Amy all day and how we apply it to the workplace. That's the next big step. Yeah. >>Yeah. You guys are awesome. And thanks so much for sharing and I wish we could go long. We're getting the hook here on time, but is there any links and locations websites we can, people can go to to get more information on the studies, the science. So I, a lot of my day curating >>And looking for more research. So peak teams.com/blog is where I do a lot of my writing and suggestions. Um, it's peak teams, P E K T E M s.com. And so I run our blog and kind of put my musings every once in a while up there so that people can see what I'm working on. Um, but they can reach out at any time. And I'm on Twitter at, at peak teams geek. Speaking of geeks, I embraced the geek mentality, right? >>Well, we have, I think geeks comment personally, but, um, final point, I'll give you the last word, Amy, if you could have a magic wand to take the science and change the preferred vision of the future with respect to men and women, you know, working cohesively together, understanding that we're different decoupled in science. Now, what would you want to see for the environment work force, life balance? What would be the magic wand that you would change? >>I think being able to make women more confident by helping reduce bias with everybody. So being more keyed in to those biases that we have in those automatic things we do to shortcut and to be more aware of them and work on them together and not see them as bad, but see them as human. So I think that's my big takeaway is remove, remove more bias. >>Fantastic. Stella Lowe, and Amy Posey here inside the cube. Thanks so much. Congratulations on your great work. Great panel. We'll continue. Of course, we have a special channel on SiliconANGLE's dot TV for women in tech. Go to SiliconANGLE dot DV. We've got a lot of cube alumni. We had another one here today with Amy. Thank you for joining us. This is the cube. We'll be right back day three, bringing it to a close here inside the cube live in Las Vegas. I'm John Forney. We'll be right back after this short break.