(bright music) (crowd talking indistinctly in the background) >> Hey guys, welcome back to Detroit, Michigan. theCUBE is live at KubeCon + CloudNativeCon 2022. You might notice something really unique here. Lisa Martin with our newest co-host of theCUBE, Savannah Peterson! Savannah, it's great to see you. >> It's so good to be here with you (laughs). >> I know, I know. We have a great segment coming up. I always love talking couple things, cars, one, two, with companies that have been around for a hundred plus years and how they've actually transformed. >> Oh yeah. >> Ford is here. You have a great story about how you, about Ford. >> Ford brought me to Detroit the first time. I was here at the North American International Auto Show. Some of you may be familiar, and the fine folks from Ford brought me out to commentate just like this, as they were announcing the Ford Bronco. >> Satish: Oh wow. >> Which I am still lusting after. >> You don't have one yet? >> For the record. No, I don't. My next car's got to be an EV. Although, ironically, there's a Ford EV right behind us here on set today. >> I know, I know. >> Which we were both just contemplating before we went live. >> It's really shiny. >> We're going to have to go check it out. >> I have to check it out. Yep, we'll do that. Yeah. Well, please welcome our two guests from Ford, Satish Puranam, is here, The Technical Leader at Cloud and Rebecca Risk, Principal Architect, developer relations. We are so excited to have you guys on the program. >> Clearly. >> Thanks for joining us. (all laugh) >> Thank you for having us. >> I love you're Ford enthusiasts! Yeah, that's awesome. >> I drive a Ford. >> Oh, awesome! Thank you. >> I can only say that's one car company here. >> That's great. >> Yes, yes. >> Great! Thank you a lot. >> Thank you for your business! >> Absolutely. (all laugh) >> So, Satish, talk to us a little bit about- I mean I think of Cloud as a car company but it seems like it's a technology company that makes cars. >> Yes. Talk to us about Ford as a Cloud first, technology driven company, and then we're going to talk about what you're doing with Red Hat and Boston University. >> Yeah, I'm like everything that all these cars that you're seeing, beautiful right behind us it's all built on, around, and with technology, right? So there's so much code goes into these cars these days, it's probably, it's mind boggling to think that probably your iPhones might be having less code as opposed to these cars. Everything from control systems, everything is code. We don't do any more clay models. Everything is done digital, 3D, virtual reality and all that stuff. So all that takes code, all of that takes technology. And we have been in that journey for the last- since 2016 when we started our first mobile app and all that stuff. And of late we have been like, heavily invested in Google. Moving a lot of these experiences, data acquisition systems AI/ML modeling for like all the autonomous cars. It's all technology and like from the day it is conceived, to the day it is marketed, to the day when you show up for a servicing, and hopefully soon how you can buy and you know, provide feedback to us, is all technology that drives all of this stuff. So it's amazing for us to see everything that we go and immerse ourselves in the technology. There is a real life thing that we can see what we all do for it, right? So- >> Yes, we're only sorry that our audience can't actually see the car, >> Yep. >> but we'll get some B-roll for you later on. Rebecca, talk a little bit about your role. Here we are at KubeCon, Savannah and I and John were talking when we went live this morning, that this is huge. That the show floor is massive, a lot bigger than last year. The collaboration and the spirit of the community is not only alive and well, as we heard in the keynote this morning, it's thriving. >> Yeah. >> Talk about developer relations at Ford and what you are helping to drive in your role. >> Yeah, so my team is all about helping developers work faster with different platforms that my team curates and produces, so that our developers don't have to deal with all of the details of setting up their environments to actually code. And we have really great people, kind of the top software developers in the company, are part of my team to produce those products that other people can use, and accelerate their development. And we have a great relationship with the developers in the company and outside with the different vendor relationships that we have, to make sure that we're always producing the next platform with the next tech stack that our developers will want to continue to use to produce the really great products that we are all about making at Ford. >> Let's dig in there a little bit because I'm curious and I suspect you both had something to do with it. How did you approach your Cloud Native transformation and how do you evaluate new technologies for the team? >> It's sometimes- many a times I would say it's like dogfooding and like experimentation. >> Yeah. Isn't anything in innovation a lot of- >> Yeah, a lot of experimentation. We started our, as I said, the Cloud Native journey back in 2016 with Cloud Foundry and things, technologies around that. Soon realized, that there was like a lot of buzz around that time. Twelve-Factor was a thing, Stateless was a thing. And then all those Stateful needs to drive the Stateless. So where do we do that thing? And the next logical iteration was Kubernetes was bursting upon the scene at that time. So we started doing a lot of experimentation. >> Like the Kool-Aid man, burst on the Kubernetes scene- >> Exactly right. >> Through the wall. >> So, the question is like, why can't we do? I think we were like crazy enough to say that Kubernetes people are talking about our serverless or Twelve-Factor on Kubernetes. We are crazy enough to do Stateful on Kubernetes and we've been doing it successfully for five years. So it's a lot about experimentation. I think good chunk of experiments that we do do not yield the results that we get, but many a times, some of them are like Gangbusters. Like, other aspects that we've been doing of late is like partnering with Becky and rest of the organization, right? Because they are the people who are like closest to the developers. We are somewhat behind the scenes doing some things but it is Becky and the rest of the architecture teams who are actually front and center with the customers, right? So it is the collaborative effort that we've been working through past few years that has been really really been useful and coming around and helping us to make some of these products really beautiful. >> Yeah, well you make a lot of beautiful products. I think we've all, I think we've all seen them. Something that I think is really interesting and part of why I was so excited for this interview, and kind of nudged John out, was because you've been- Ford has been investing in technology in a committed way for decades and I don't think most people are aware of that. When I originally came out to Dearborn, I learned that you've had a head of VR who happens to be a female. For what it's worth, Elizabeth, who's been running VR for you for two and a half decades, for 25 years. >> Satish: Yep. >> That is an impressive commitment. What is that like from a culture perspective inside of Ford? What is the attitude around innovation and technology? >> So I've been a long time Ford employee. I just celebrated my 29th year. >> Oh, wow! >> Congratulations! >> Wow, congrats! That's a huge deal. >> Yeah, it's a huge deal. I'm so proud of my career and all that Ford has brought to me and it's just a testament. I have many colleagues like me who've been there for their whole career or have done other things and come to Ford and then spent another 20 years with us because we foster the culture that makes you want to stay. We have development programs to allow you to upscale and change your role and learn new things and play with the new technologies that people are interested in doing and really make an impact to our community of developers at Ford or the company itself and the results that we're delivering. So to have that, you know, culture for so many years that people really love to work. They love to work with the people that they're working with. They love to stay engaged and they love the fact that you can have many different careers within the same umbrella, which we call the "blue oval". And that's really why I've been there for so long. I think I probably had 13 very unique and different jobs along the way. It's as if I left, and you know shopped around my skills elsewhere. But I didn't ever have to leave the company. It's been fabulous. >> The cultural change and adoption of- embracing modern technology- Cloud Native automotive software is impressive because a lot of historied companies, you guys have been there a long time, have challenges with that because it's really hard to get an entire moving, you'll call it the blue oval, to change and adapt- >> Savannah: I love that. >> and be willing to experiment. So that that is impressive. Talk about, you go by Becky, so I'll call you Becky, >> Rebecca/Becky: Yeah. >> The developer culture in terms of the developers really being the center of the nucleus of influencing the direction in which the company's going. I imagine that they probably are fairly influential. >> Yeah, so I had a very- one of the unique positions I held was a culture change for our department, Information Technology in 2016. >> Satish: Yeah. >> As the teacher was involved with moving us to the cloud, I was responsible- >> You are the transformation team! This is beautiful. I love this. We've got the right people on the show. >> Yeah, we do. >> I was responsible for changing the culture to orient our employees to pay attention to what do we want to create for tomorrow? What are the kind of skills we need to trust each other to move quickly. And that was completely unique. >> Satish: Yeah. >> Like I had men in the trenches delivering software before that, and then plucked out because they wanted someone, you know who had authentic experience with our development team to be that voice. And it was such a great investment that Ford continues to do is invest in our culture transformation. Because with each step forward that we do, we have to refine what our priorities are. And you do that through culture transformation and culture management. And that's been, I think really, the key to our successful pivots that we've made over the last six years that we've been able to continue to refine and hone where we really want to go through that culture movement. >> Absolutely. I think if I could add another- >> Please. >> spotlight to it is like the biggest thing about Ford has been among various startup-like culture, right? So the idea is that we encourage people to think outside the box, right? >> Savannah: Or outside the oval? >> Right! (laughs) >> Lisa: Outside the oval, yes! >> Absolutely! Right. >> So the question is like, you can experiment with various things, new technologies and you will get all the leadership support to go along with it. I think that is very important too and like we can be in the trenches and talk about all of these nice little things but who the heck would've thought that, you know Kubernetes was announced in 2015, in late 2016, we have early dev Kubernetes clusters already running. 2017, we are live with workloads on Kubernetes! >> Savannah: Early adopters over here. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I'm like all of this thing doesn't happen without lot of foresight and support from the leadership, but it's also the grassroot efforts that is encouraged all along to be on the front end of all of these things and try different things. Some of them may not work >> Savannah: Right. >> But that's okay. But how do we know we are doing something, if you're not failing? We have to fail in order to do something, right? >> Lisa: I always say- >> So I think that's been a great thing that is encouraged very often and otherwise I would not be doing, I've done a whole bunch of stuff at Ford. Without that kind of ability to support and have an appetite for, some of those things would not have been here at all. >> I always say failure is not a bad F-word. >> Satish: Yep. >> Savannah: I love that. >> But what you're talking about there is kind of like driving this hot wheel of experimentation. You have to have the right culture and the mindset- >> Satish: Absolutely. >> to do that. Try fail, move on, learn, iterate, go. >> Satish: Correct. >> You guys have a great partnership with Red Hat and Boston University. You're speaking about that later today. >> Satish: Yes. >> Unpack that for us. What, from a technical perspective, what are you doing and what's it resulting in? >> Yeah, I think the biggest thing is Becky was talking about as during this transformation journey, is lot has changed in very small amount of time. So we traditionally been like, "Hey, here's a spreadsheet of things I need you to deliver for me" to "Here is a catalog of things, you can get it today and be successful with it". That is frightening to several of our developers. The goal, one of the things that we've been working with Q By Example, Red Hat and all the thing, is that how can we lower the bar for the developers, right? Kubernetes is great. It's also a wall of YAML. >> It's extremely complex, number one complaint. >> The question is how can I zero on? I'm like, if we go back think like when we talk about in cars with human-machine interfaces, which parts do I need to know? Here's the steering wheel, here's the gas pedal, or here's the brake. As long as you know these two, three different things you should be fairly be okay to drive those things, right? So the idea of some of the things with enablementing we are trying to do is like reduce that barrier, right? Reduce- lower the bar so that more people can participate in it. >> One of the ways that you did that was Q By Example, right, QBE? >> Satish: Yes, Yes. >> Can you tell us a little bit more about that as you finish this answer? >> Yeah, I think the biggest thing with Q By Example is like Q By Example gives you the small bite-sized things about Kubernetes, right? >> Savannah: Great place to start. >> But what we wanted to do is that we wanted to reinforce that learning by turning into a real world living example app. We took part info, we said, Hey, what does it look like? How do I make sure that it is highly available? How do I make sure that it is secure? Here is an example YAML of it that you can literally verbatim copy and paste into your editor and click run and then you will get an instant gratification feedback loop >> I was going to say, yeah, they feel like you're learning too! >> Yes. Right. So the idea would be is like, and then instead of giving you just a boring prose text to read, we actually drop links to relevant blog posts saying that, hey you can just go there. And that has been inspirational in terms of like and reinforcing the learning. So that has been where we started working with the Boston University, Red Hat and the community around all of that stuff. >> Talk a little bit about, Becky, about some of the business outcomes. You mentioned things like upskilling the workforce which is really nice to hear that there's such a big focus on it. But I imagine too, there's more participation in the community, but also from an end customer perspective. Obviously, everything Ford's doing is to serve the end customers >> Becky: Right. How does this help the end customer have that experience that they really, these days, demand with patience being something that, I think, is gone because of the pandemic? >> Right? Right. So one of the things that my team does is we create the platforms that help Accelerate developers be successful and it helps educate them more quickly on appropriate use of the platforms and helps them by adopting the platforms to be more secure which inherently lead to the better results for our end customers because their data is secure because the products that they have are well created and they're tested thoroughly. So we catch all those things earlier in the cycle by using these platforms that we help curate and produce. And that's really important because, like you had mentioned, this steep learning curve associated with Kubernetes, right? >> Savannah: Yeah. >> So my team is able to kind of help with that abstraction so that we solve kind of the higher complex problems for them so that developers can move faster and then we focus our education on what's important for them. We use things like Q By Example, as a source instead of creating that content ourselves, right? We are able to point them to that. So it's great that there's that community and we're definitely involved with that. But that's so important to help our developers be successful in moving as quickly as they want and not having 20,000 people solve the same problems. >> Satish: (chuckles) Yeah. >> Each individually- >> Savannah: you don't need to! >> and sometimes differently. >> Savannah: We're stronger together, you know? >> Exactly. >> The water level rises together and Ford is definitely a company that illustrates that by example. >> Yeah, I'm like, we can't make a better round wheel right? >> Yeah! So, we have to build upon what we have already been built ahead of us. And I think a lot of it is also about how can we give back and participate in the community, right? So I think that is paramount for us as like, here we are in Detroit so we're trying to recruit and show people that you know, everything that we do is not just old car and sheet metal >> Savannah: Combustion. >> and everything and right? There's a lot of tech goes and sometimes it is really, really cool to do that. And biggest thing for us is like how can we involve our community of developers sooner, earlier, faster without actually encumbering them and saying that, hey here is a book, go master it. We'll talk two months later. So I think that has been another journey. I think that has been a biggest uphill challenge for us is that how can we actually democratize all of these things for everybody. >> Yeah. Well no one better to try than you I would suspect. >> We can only try and hope everything turns out well, right? >> You know, as long as there's room for the bumpers on the lane for if you fail. >> Exactly. >> It sounds like you're driving the program in the right direction. Closing question for you, what's next? Is electric the future? Is Kubernetes the future? What's Ford all in on right now, looking forward? (crowd murmuring in the background) >> Data is the king, right? >> Savannah: Oh, okay, yes! >> Data is a new currency. We use that for several things to improve the cars improve the quality of autonomous driving Is Level 5 driving here? Maybe will be here soon, we'll see. But we are all working towards it, right? So machine learning, AI feedback. How do you actually post sale experience for example? So all of these are all areas that we are working to. We are, may not be getting like Kubernetes in a car but we are putting Kubernetes in plants. Like you order a Marquis or you order a Bronco, you see that here. Here's where in the assembly line your car is. It's taking pictures. It's actually taking pictures on Kubernetes platform. >> That's pretty cool. >> And it is tweeting for you on the Twitter and the social media platform. So there's a lot of that. So it is real and we are doing it. We need more help. A lot of the community efforts that we are seeing and a lot of the innovation that is happening on the floor here, it's phenomenal. The question is how we can incorporate those things into our workflows. >> Yeah, well you have the right audience for that here. You also have the right attitude, >> Exactly. >> the right appetite, and the right foundation. Becky, last question for you. Top three takeaways from your talk today. If you're talking to the developer community you want to inspire: Come work for us! What would you say? >> If you're ready to invest in yourself and upskill and be part of something that is pretty remarkable, come work for us! We have many, many different technical career paths that you can follow. We invest in our employees. When you master something, it's time for you to move on. We have career growth for you. It's been a wonderful gift to me and my family and I encourage everyone to check us out careers.ford.com or stop by our booth if you're happen to be here in person. >> Satish: Absolutely! >> We have our curated job openings that are specific for this community, available. >> Satish: Absolutely. >> Love it. Perfect close. Nailed pitch there. I'm sure you're all going to check out their job page. (all laugh) >> Exactly! And what you talked about, the developer experience, the customer experience are inextricably linked and you guys are really focused on that. Congratulations on all the work that you've done. We got to go get a selfie with that car girl. >> Yes, we do. >> Absolutely. >> We got to show them, we got to show the audience what it looks like on the inside too. We'll do a little IG video. (Lisa laughs) >> Absolutely. >> We will show you that for our guests and my cohost, Savannah Peterson. Lisa Martin here live in Detroit with theCUBE at KubeCon and CloudNativeCon 2022. The one and only John Furrier, who you know gets FOMO, is going to be back with me next. So stick around. (all laugh) (bright music)

(upbeat music) >> Narrator: Live, from San Diego, California, it's theCUBE! Covering KubeCon, and CloudNativeCon. Brought to you by RedHat, the Cloud Native Computing Foundation, and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back, this is theCUBE's fourth year of covering KubeCon and CloudNativeCon. This is the North America show here in San Diego it's 2019, he is John Troyer, I am Stu Miniman, and happy to welcome to the program, first of all, I have Murli Thirumali, who is the co-founder and CEO of Portworx, and Murli, thank you so much for bringing one of your customers on the program, Satish Puranam, who is a Technical Specialist with Ford Motor Company. Gentlemen, thank you so much for joining us. >> Delighted to be here. >> All right, so Satish, we're going to start with you because, you know, the growth of this ecosystem has been phenomenal, there were End Users up on the mainstage, we've already had them, there's over, there's 129 now CNCF End User Participants there, but, you know, bring us in Ford, you know, we were getting ready for this, we're talking, there's so much change going in from, you know, of course, everybody talks about autonomous vehicles, and what there have, but, you know, technology has really embedded itself deeply into a company like Ford, so before we get into all the crew, just, bring us a little about into your world, what's happening, changing, and, you know, what your team does. >> Sure, in like uh, Ford generally has been in like a transformation journey for about the last two years now, that includes like, completely redoing our Data Centers, our Application Portfolio, as part of this monolithic journey, we started our journey with Cloud Foundry, we have been a huge favorite to Cloud Foundry shops for some time. And then, we also would like to start dabbling with like, Kubernetes and things, associated technologies primarily do for like, looking for like, data services, messaging services, lot of the stateful things, right? Cloud Native and like, Kubernetes, and I- Cloud Foundry, I am sorry, Did great wonders for us, for qualified graphs. So what do we do with like, stateful things? And that's what we started dabbling with Kubernetes and things like that. >> Yeah, Satish, if I could, I want to step back one second here, and say, you know, you do a transformation, consolidation, moving from monoliths to microservices, what was the business driver here, was it one day, some executive got up and said, you know, "hey this sounds really cool, go do it", or was there a specific driver in the business that now, your organization needs to respond to? >> I think the business drive is cost efficiency. Like, uh, there were, like, a lot of things that we would have not done, so there's a lot of technical debt we have to pay down, because of various fragmentation and various other things, so it's always about realizing business efficiencies, and most importantly, speed at which we deliver services to our customers internally, so that was the main driving force for our engaging in this transformation journey for like, about the last few years. >> Okay, Murli we'd love to have bring you to this conversation here. You obviously, agility is one of the things I hear most from customers, the driver of what new things. Infrastructure for the longest time, in many ways, it was like a boat anchor of what held us back. >> Murli: Yep. >> Especially you know, our friends in Networking and Storage, it is difficult to change and keep up with, with what's driving there, so bring us uh, bring us up to speed with Portworx and how you fit into Ford and more broadly. >> Yeah, just a quick introduction to Portworx, we've been around for about five years, now, right from the early days of containers and Kubernetes, and you know, we have quite a few customers now in Production, we have about 130 customers, 50 of the uh, the global 2k and so on, many, almost all those customers are in Production, deploying stat significant workloads. The interesting thing about Kubernetes in the last couple of years, especially, is that everybody recognizes it has won the war for orchestrating containers and applications, but the reality is, the customer still has to manage the whole stack, the stack of not just the app but the data itself underneath, and that's kind of the role of Portworx, Portworx is the platform for storage for Kubernetes, and we orchestrate all the underlying storage and the data applications, with that being said, I think one of the things that we've seen that Ford has kind of led the way in, and has been really amazing, is some of the many surprising things that people don't really know about Kubernetes, which has been happening now with customers like Ford for a while, one of them, for example, is just the use of Kubernetes in on-prem applications. Very few people really kind of, they think of Kubernetes as something that was born in the Cloud, and therefore, has kind of really only mushroomed in the Cloud, and you know, the, one of the key things about Kubernetes, and most of our customers are actually on-prem, and it to me is transforming the Data Center. The agility that Satish speaks about, is something that you don't just need because you are operating in the Cloud, you need that for all of your on-prem applications, too, and that's been one of the unique characteristics that we've seen from Ford. >> Yeah, and that's, I mean, you talked about your journey, Satish, you know, the pivotal folks really talk a lot about transformation and agility you know, no matter where your apps were sitting, I'm kind of curious in terms of the storage and the stateful- statefulness of the applications that your working with now, you know, what kind of a, if I looked at it, the diagram, what kind of a set-up would there be? So there's a Portworx layer underneath and beside Kubernetes that's managing some of the storage and some of the replication? Is it then, is the data sitting in a, you know, on a SAN somewhere, is it sitting in the Cloud, I mean, can you kind of describe what a typical application would look like? >> With your typical application, yes we draw storage, we've been drawing storage for the past several years from NetApp as being as the primary source of our data, and then we run on top of that, we run some kind of storage overlays, we dabble with quite a few technologies, including, uh, Rook, NetApp Trident, Uh, Loster, You know I'm like a, it was a journey A journey that we took us, to ultimately lead us to Portworx and we just didn't started with Portworx, but the toughest aspect has been the gravity that the stories bring along with it, and all the things that are, Cloud Native is great but Cloud Native has stayed somewhere and that has to be managed someplace, and we said "Hey, can we do that with Kubernetes?" Right? So, I think we have done a- I won't say an outstanding job but at least we've done a reasonably good job at actually at least wrapping our heads around it and we have quite a few workloads in production that are actually stateful, whether they are Base Systems, uh, there are also like Data Messaging Systems, many cards applications and all that stuff so that has been something that we have been working on for the past few years on our platforms at least. >> Yeah, well I wonder if you could expand a little bit on kind of the application suite you know, "What can we do? What can't we do?" Listen to the keynote this morning I definitely heard it was, if you look at a multi cluster environment, You know, you want to mirror and have the same things there. Well I can't just magically have all the data everywhere and data has gravity and the laws of physics do apply so I can't just automatically replicate terabytes from here to the Cloud or back so help us understand where we are. >> So, you know, one of the, uh, one of the things Satish told me yesterday which I loved was he saying, he said: "Stateful is almost easier than stateless now because of the fact that we have these extensions of Kubenetes." So, one of the things that's been very very impactful is that Kubernetes is now these extensions for managing you know, storage networking and so on, and in fact the way they do that is through an API that just an overlay, so we are an example of an overlay. And so think about it this way, if a customer about 60 percent of our customers are building a platform as their service, in many cases they don't even know what applications are going to be in there, so over our customer base we see the same alphabet soup over and over and over again. Guess what it is, Postgress, Cassandra's, all the databases Redis, right? You know, all of the messaging queues, right? Things like Kafta and uh, you know, Streaming Data, for example, Spark workloads. And so, one of the key things that is happening around with customers particularly on the enterprise side, like large enterprises, they are using all kinds of applications and they're all stateful. I mean they're very few enterprises that are not stateful and they're all running on some kind of a storage substrate that has virtualized the underlying storage. So we run on top of the underlying hardware, but then we're enabled to kind of work with all of the orchestration that Kubernetes provides but we're adding the orchestration of the Data infrastructure as well as the storage itself And I think that's one of the key things that's changed with Kubernetes in the last, I would say, two and a half years is, most people used to think of it as "in the cloud and stateless" but now it's "on-prem and stateful." >> So Satish, one of the things we've talked to customers is their journey of modernizing their applications, it's, there's things that you might build brand-new and are great here but, you know, I'm sure you have thousands of applications and-- >> Satish: Absolutely. >> You know, going from the old way to a brand new thing, there's lot of different ways to get there. Some of it you might need to just-- Where are you with the journey of getting things onto this platform layer that we're talking about? And what will that journey look like for Port? >> Net new apps, anything being new we're talking about writing and like Cloud Native, Twelve factor Apps, like, but anything new, I'm like, anything existing data services, messaging services, what we affectionately call as table stakes services, right? So, which are the Twelve Factor Apps rely on, we are targeting towards Kubernetes. The idea is, "are we there yet?" Probably "no" like We are getting there with along with our partners to put it on the platforms like Kubernetes, right? So, we are also doing a lot of automation orchestration on VMs itself. But the idea is heavy and heavier workloads are going to be lining on Kubernetes platforms, and there will be a lot of work in the upcoming years particularly 2020, where we will be concentrating more on those things and with the continuing growth would be on Twelve Factor, Net New, would be Twelve Factor, Net New, could be in Cloud Foundry, could be in Kubernetes. Time will tell, but uh, that's the guiding philosophy, so to speak, but uh, There's a lot that we have to learn in this journey right now. >> Well I was kind of curious about that Satish, we've talked about an alphabet soup, we've talked about a lot of different projects, and certainly here at KubeCon, the thing about the Cloud Native Computing Foundation is that not that they don't have opinions, but everybody has an opinon, there's lots of different components here, it's not one stack, it's a collection of things that could be put together in several different ways. So you've tried a bunch of different things with storage, I'm actually, I'm interested if there are, if there were kind of surprises or, you know, containerized activity is probably different than I/O activity and storage I/O is probably different than in a virtual machine, the storage itself has some different assumptions built into it, so like, do you have any advise for people? I'm interested in the storage case but also just in, you don't have to evaluate nerworking and security and compliance and a lot of different things. Like, how do you go about approaching this sort of evaluation in this trial; in this journey of when you have-- when you're facing an "alphabet soup" of options? >> I think uh, it all comes down to basic engineering, right? So, what I make, think about "what are your failure points?" I'm like, "could be servers failing, infrastructure, hardware failing" right? So, the basic tendance is that we try to introduce failure as early as possible, like, "what happens if you pull the wire?" and "what happens if the server failure, failure happens?" The question that always comes back is that "is there a way I can compose the same infrastructure so that I can spread it across a couple of failure domains?" I think that was the whole idea of when we started, is like, "can we decompose the problem such that we can actually take advantage of primitives that begged into Kebernetes?" The great thing with CSI, that we're just realizing, before that were all flex drivers, but, how do you actually organize storage in the back end that actually allows you to actually compose this thing on the front end using the Kubernetes primitives. I think that was the process we though. >> John: And CSI is a standard API, >> Correct. >> Yeah, storage API, yeah. >> Exactly. I mean that's what we are relying, we're hoping that it's going to help us with things like, uh, moving compute, uh, to the storage rather than moving storage to the compute. That's one of the evolving, thinking that we're working with. Portworx, we've been working with the community folks from work and a couple of other areas. It's, there's lot to be done here, like we're just in still early days I would say. >> Murli, want to make sure we get out there, Portworx had some updates for this week so what do you say to latest? >> Yeah, so, the updates actually relate to exactly to what Satish was talking about, you know, the idea of, so, container storage has kind of been on it's own journey right? In the early days that John remembers well, it was really providing storage per system, making that data available everywhere. It's then clearly moved to HA being having the High Availability say within the cluster and so on. So, but the data life cycle for the application that's been containerized extends well beyond that so we are making extensions to our own product that are kind of following that path. So, one of the things we launched a few months ago was disaster recovery, DR, which is very very specific to containers, so, container granular DR, so you can kind of you know, take a snapshot, not just of the data, but of the application state as well as the Kubernetes pods back and recover all three of them. At this KubeCon we're announcing two other things. One of them is backup, so our customers, as they make the journey through their app life cycle, inevitably they need to backup their data and we have, again, container granular backup, that will provide all of, by the way, on existing storage. We're not asking anybody to up change, there's underneath their hardware storage substructure. The last thing we're introducing is storage capacity management which is fully automated. You know one of the characteristics of Kubernetes is all of that is "get the person" "get the trouble to get out of the picture," right? The world is going to be automated. Kubernetes is one of the ways people are doing that. And what we have provided is the ability to auto-resize volumes, and auto-resize pods of storage and add more nodes automatically based on policy that is completely automated so that again, these applications, you know when the characteristics of containerized workloads, they aren't predictable; they go up and down and they grow very fast sometimes, and so all of that management, so autopilot, uh, you know, backup DR have now been added in addition to persistent in HA. >> Alright, so before I let you both go, uh, want to talk about 2020? >> So soon. >> Satish, I want to give you a wish. You talked about all the things you'd do the next couple of years, if you could get one thing more out if this ecosystem to make your lives easier for you and your team, you know? What would that be? >> I think standardization on more of these interfaces. Kerbenetes provides a great platform for everybody to interact equally. Uh, more things like CSI, CRI, stuff that's happening in the community. And more standardization will lead to actually, make my life and things and end prizes a lot more easier. Will like to see continue that happening, GPU space looks very interesting, um, so we'll see. That would be my wish at least. >> Alright so Murli, I'm not giving you a wish. You're going to tell me, what should we be looking for from Portworx in participation in, you know, in this community over the next year. >> I think one of the big changes that's happened, really, in the last couple of years that is really kind of achieving a hockey stick is that enterprises are recognizing that stateful apps are really, should be using Kubernetes and can use Kubernetes. So to me, what I predict is that I think, Kubernetes is going to move from not, from just managing applications, to actually managing infrastructure like storage. And so I, you know, my belief is that 2020 is the beginning of where Kubernetes becomes the control plane across the Data Center and Cloud. It's the new control plane. No, what Openstack was aspiring to be many years ago, and that it will be looking upwards to manage applications and downwards to manage infrastructure and, it's not just us who are doing that, folks like VMware with Project Pacific have kind of kind of indicated that that's the direction that we see. So I think it's roll is now much more than just an app orchestrator, it's really going to be the new control plane for infrastructure and apps in the enterprise and in the Cloud. >> Murli, Satish, thank you so much for sharing all the update. >> Thank you >> Pleasure to catch up with both of you >> Thanks. >> Northbound, Southbound, Multi Cloud, theCube is at all of these environments and all the shows. For John Trayer, I'm Stu Miniman as always, thank you for watching theCube.