(upbeat music) >> Commentator: Live, from Orlando, Florida, it's theCUBE, covering ServiceNow Knowledge17, brought to you by ServiceNow. >> Hi everybody, welcome back to Knowledge17. This is theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. My name is Dave Vellante, and I'm with my co-host Jeff Frick at our fifth Knowledge. We go out to the events. We extract the signal from the noise. Seneca Louck is here, he's the Business Process Lead at Dow Chemical. A relatively new ServiceNow customer. Welcome to theCUBE, thanks for coming on. >> Thank you guys. >> Thanks for having me. >> So you said this is your second Knowledge. >> Seneca: It is. >> And, well how do you like Orlando? >> I like it, I like it. I'm here, in Venetian, >> Sunny? >> for next year, and so I'm a Vegas guy, so I'll be happy to get back there, but Orlando's nice. >> Dave: Where's home for you? >> Originally from New Jersey. Worked in Philadelphia for 15 years and relocated to Midland, Michigan, where Dow Chemical's headquartered. >> Dave: Fantastic, ah it's great, great country, Michigan. >> Absolutely. >> So, take us through your role, start there. What do you do, >> Sure. >> at Dow Chemical? >> So, I'm a Business Process Lead for Enterprise Service Management. We could go down the ITSM route, or we can go down the BSM route and we said, "Why pick one?" Enterprise Systems Management used to be the name. We actually elevated it up, Enterprise Service Management. We're the IT Operability focus on the end. >> Okay, and you said you went live, with ServiceNow, June last year? >> June 11th last year, we started with Incident Problem Change Config. We did Change Management, sorry, a month later. And then we did Service Request catalog, rolled out for the whole rest of the year. >> How long did it take you from sort of, when you said, "All right, we're doing this. "Start the project." To actually get, you know, MVP out? >> The cake. >> Yeah, the cake. (laughs) >> To get to the cake. >> And MVP's a really important thing. Minimum Viable Product. It was a hard lesson for us to learn. Quickly we realized that we're not going to be able to do everything we want to do in a first shot. So, we did focus very heavily on MVP. ServiceNow was good enough to make sure that they bred that into us, the importance of that. And so, we started in October, with workshops. We spent probably the first four or five months before we wrote one single line of code or configured one thing in ServiceNow. You know, a lot of that work was As-Is Process. Document it, understand it, uplift it, figure out what we want that To-Be Process to look like, and then figure out how the tool's going to deliver against that. >> Did you do some of that, I mean much of that came as part of the business case, and then you just refined it, is that right? >> The business case was really more on the value side. We didn't get into the specifics around process. We had a high level idea what we wanted to do strategically. Right? >> Yeah. >> Our guiding principles were really, Industry Best Practice, we like to think we're special. But really, the industry should know. Out of the box, ServiceNow, whenever possible. And to be honest, the out-of-the-box ServiceNow should reflect Industry Best Practice fairly well. And so that was kind of the coming in position for us. We deviated only when absolutely necessary and we really tried to stick to vanilla. >> So you minimized custom mods? >> Seneca: We really tried to do that, yes. There's times where we had to deviate of course. But we really wanted to look to see if ServiceNow had an answer, and if we could tweak what was already there, then great. There's only a handful of opportunities where we had to build something net new. >> And was that related to your ERP, or when did you have to build those custom mods? >> So, in places where we might have a concept that was to bring Legacy capability from a previous system. We knew we weren't going to cut and run from the old to the new. We had to kind of pull on some of the capabilities of that platform. So, the way you guys do category, sub-category, we did through classification. And so we had to customize a couple of tables to bring classifications over to bridge that gap. >> I see, okay, and then, so then you go live. Now was it a CMDB, a single CMDB across the organization? >> So, we have HP technology, where we had large investment. We wanted to keep that for discovery purposes and it enabled us to build one big tunnel between our CMDB and ServiceNow, so it made the integration go very easily. So, we really did two key integrations, a CMDB integration and an LDAP one to get our people data. Once that was done, we were on our feet, we were stood up and we were ready to start delivering processes. >> And the Service Catalog? >> Service Catalog was an interesting one because we had it spread out in a bunch of places. We had web forums, where somebody had customized a small, little web forum that that was actually making calls into our ticketing system to create service requests. We also had Request Center, which was brought in to try and solve that world of Service Request Management, but it only did it for Service Request. And we realize ServiceNow is going to do it end-to-end. >> Seneca, when you're thinking about your investments. I like to look at 'em as you get investments to run the business, some to grow the business and some to transform the business. And you're really sort of an IT-transform expert. How do you allocate that? Are those mutually exclusive? Do they sort of blend into each other and how much of your investment is transformation, and what does that all mean? >> Yeah, so it's tough because you've got guys that are on the run side, and I actually spent the large majority of my career on the run side. So, I know what if feels like to be accountable for everything in production, regardless of how it got there. And so, I kind of oscillate back and forth. Right? If the hair's on fire and these guys are going to be dead by the time the project transforms next year's capability, there's no point in us waiting. We can't wait. So, we're bouncing in and out of transformation and dealing with, making sure operability can happen effectively, efficiently, and that these guys are around next year, and alive and well, so that we can deliver that transformational capability. >> You talked about MVP being kind of a new concept. I wonder if you could dig into that a little bit further. >> Sure, sure. >> Is that not kind of a process or methodology that you guys have done in the past, or was it a learning curve? >> So, it was a little bit of a learning curve. So, typically you know, we delivered the biggest SAP implementation in the history of the world. A billion dollars, 800 SAP systems. And it took us seven years. So, we didn't think a lot about MVP, we wanted perfection. And so we made sure that we got it. And it cost us dearly. But in the end, the results were good. In this case, we had to move fast. Right? We weren't going to be able to do it all. We knew the capabilities that you see, throughout this room, are incredible. We want to get to them. But we've got to get on to the platform first. And so, we really did hone in on trying to find, what is the minimum product that we need to get people moved over to the platform, and we'll increment from there. So, it was a little bit of a learning for us. It was a little bit of a culture change. And we kind of found that sweet spot between Agile and Waterfall, which I think we called it Wagile, or (laughs). Yeah, Wagile I think, >> Well, right. >> is the name. >> I mean your implementation >> coincided with the sort of DevOps craze, and Agile, but there's >> That's right, that's right. >> a place for Waterfall, right? >> There is, there is. >> Sometimes, you need >> that perfection. Other times, you need to break stuff and iterate. >> Absolutely. >> But so, that's interesting. You said you came up with sort of a hybrid. Sometimes, hybrids are scary. So, how did you sort of come to that point and how's it workin' for you? >> Yeah, so what we did is we front-ended a lot of the requirements. We spent, like I said, several months, just sitting and doing requirements. And then, we transitioned into two-week sprints. And we pulled out of the backlog, the requirements that we had captured in those months previous. So, that was kind of how we blended the two together. We're more a Waterfall shop but we were delivering a system of record. And so, in systems of record, we strongly believe that Agile can be dangerous. It's not necessarily the place to start. And so, we started with Waterfall, and we kind of ended with Agile. >> All right, okay, and so, what so far have been the sort of business impacts? Can you share that with us? >> Yeah absolutely, so first thing's first, we're getting consistency throughout our processes. So, many times, geographical differences or even within a geography, at a sub-activity level, people were doing things differently. So, first thing we had to do was Standardize Process. That gives us the ability to measure across the world, how that process is being executed. Whereas before, we couldn't do that one-for-one, we couldn't compare these things one-for-one. And so, now we have that vision, now we have that visibility, and we were a performance analytics customer from day one, so we started capturing data to baseline, to benchmark, from Go Live, until today, and we've got incredible data to go back then and do the continuous service improvement. >> And how much of the consistency and process was forced in your pre-deployment activities, where you kind of find, all right, we got to sit down and actually document this to put it into the system. Versus, now that you've got this tool in place, that you see the opportunity to continue to go after new processes. >> It varied, dependent upon area, so Change Management was actually not a bad process from a global perspective. On the flip side is, we actually implemented some case management capability for our Business Functions. Their processes were extremely deviated across geographies, across activities. And so it depends, but the bottom line is that before we talk about implementing on this platform, we got to talk standardization. Good news is the incident problem changed. It wasn't as much work. On the Business Process side, it was a lot more. >> How are you predominantly measured? Is it getting stuff done? Are there other sort of KPI's that you focus on? Is there one that you try to optimize? >> So, these days, we're actually operating in a little bit of a dangerous place because we're going through so much mergers and acquisition activity, that our success is, can we integrate a company in less than a year while we go on to do the biggest chemical merger in the history of the world? So, typically, we would be kind of looking at metrics, and KPI's, down at the process level. Right now, we're looking at, can I actually bring these companies together? So it's integrated. >> And not kill each other. >> And not kill each other. (laughs) That's right. That's not to say we're not doing the latter as well but I think we have to start with, can we get the big activities done so that we can figure out how to do the process improvement. >> Dave: Right. How about the show for you here? What's it been like? What are you learning? >> Yeah, so. >> Are you sharing? >> Dx Continuum I think is going to be the theme that I'm going to leave here thinking, wow, these guys did the right thing with that purchase. So, you know the artificial intelligence, the machine learning, the data lakes, that we're going to be able to take all this data that we have and pump it out to you guys. And you're going to turn around and tell us an interesting story. You're going to tell me the questions that I would never even think to ask because you're going to be able to see into that data in ways that we never even dreamed possible. So, that's the big one for me. I've heard some rumors of some other things coming, but I shouldn't know about those and so I'm not going to say anything at this point. But right now, it's about the machine learning, the artificial intelligence. >> So, what other, I mean 'cause a company the size of Dow must be doing some interesting things with Big Data and Hadoop and AI. How does what you're doing or does what you're doing with ServiceNow relate to those sort of other activities? Is there sort of a data platform strategy? >> It's an interesting question. It's something that we're actually struggling with a little bit to figure out what that strategy is going to be. I don't think the larger organization expected so many opportunities to use analytics and to use machine learning against data sets that otherwise were, this is operation stuff, for the most part, right? We're starting to get into the business side a little bit but really, we were focused on running the business from an operations perspective. And so, all of a sudden, now, we're getting attention that we wouldn't have had otherwise, from the big players, you know. The SAP Business Warehouse, Business Intelligence guys. They've got 120 people delivering their reporting service. I got a guy half-time, that's helping me with my PA reports and we've got to figure out a way to either join our strategies together or at least meet in the middle because there's data that we probably want to share from each other. >> Do you have a Chief Data Officer on staff? >> We do not, that I'm aware of, actually. But I think it is , it's a very powerful role, but in our SAP world, they kind of act as that defacto person within our organization. But they're not very interested in what we're doing yet but they are starting to get the attention of us. >> It's interesting 'cause we talk a lot about IoT Now will bridge, you know, kind of the IT and the Ops folks. And it sounds like you're having that experience really specifically built around some of the processes that you're delivering in ServiceNow. To bring those two world together. >> Yeah, so while I mentioned machine learning and Artificial Intellience, that's actually right there, second on my list. The thing I came here last year and raised my hands and said I need the most is I need the ability to bring massive amounts of data onto this platform. Raw performance data, network data, server data, utilization data, end-user data. I want to be able to bring it into this platform so that I can use it to correlate events and incidents and problems. And so, the things that you guys are doing for IoT, to bring massive data sets in, are actually going to solve my problem, but I don't think it was necessarily what you were trying to solve. But I'm very happy for that. >> So, by the way, we're independent media, so we're (laughs) like third-party guys. >> Understood, understood >> It's these guys, ServiceNow. So, we just sort of unpack, analyze. What about if you had to do it again. What would you do differently? Obviously you would have, and you did, you embraced the MVP, other things? >> So, we took a very dangerous route in that we didn't have a team built. We didn't have a competency built. We took a system integrator and we went off and we went hog wild and we implemented it quickly, while we built the team, while we built the governance, while we built the competency center. If I could do it again, I'd have that team ready, staffed, you know, well-trained up front, so that we could learn as we went, a little bit more, be a little more autonomous and self-sufficient. >> Were you one of the 100 customers that John Donahoe met with in 45 days? >> I was not actually. >> And if you weren't, then what would you tell him in terms of the piece that he said, "What can we do better?" What would you? >> Yeah. >> So, the question came up yesterday, around releases. You know, should we do more, should we do less. I mean, we're actually struggling a little bit to keep up with the two releases per year. So, the biggest thing that I see is not making it a wholesale upgrade. If I could take parts and pieces from the new capabilities that are coming without having to go through the full upgrade cycle, you know, I think that would be huge for me. So that we don't have to spend a couple of months or we're hoping to get that down to one month. But this is our first one in production. So, we're going to spend three months getting this upgrade right. We're hoping to get it down to, you know, a couple of weeks to a month. But if I can take pieces and parts of the capability that's being delivered, and not have to take it wholesale, that would be the thing. >> Yeah, so that's interesting because Multi-instance is nice. You don't have to go on the SaaS player's schedule. But you want to keep current, you know, for a lot of reasons, with maybe, with certain parts of the upgrade. Yeah, okay, that doesn't sound trivial. (laughs) >> Yeah, it's not. >> Although I know they're thinking about it so it's come up, I've heard a couple of people at least mention that it's something that they have to think about. They may not actually go that direction. But at least that they're thinking about it, that tells me that they're exploring other avenues to deliver capability. >> Dave: What's in the future for you guys? Where do you want to take this thing? >> Yeah, so our next big thing's going to be Event Management. So, we've got 45 different tools that are doing monitoring from purchase tools to somebody's script that's sitting on the mainframe that sends us an event, when some exception happens. And so we've built, you know, with a custom IT process automation tool, our Event Management framework. And it's integrated with ServiceNow. But at the heart of it is, there's some old technology, decade-old technology, that was my first entry into IT process automation. And so, as the person who built it, I'm going to be the one that ultimately unplugs it and hands it over to ServiceNow. So, for us, that's the next step for what we're going to do. >> Awesome, well listen, Seneca, thanks very much for coming to theCUBE. It's great to have you. Loved the knowledge. >> Thanks for having us. >> Dave: Rapid fire, you know, perfect for theCUBE, so thank you. >> Great, wonderful. >> Thank you, guys. >> Thanks for coming on. >> I appreciate it. >> All right, pleasure. >> All right, keep it right there, buddy. We'll be back with our next guest. This is theCUBE, we're live from Knowledge17 in Orlando. We'll be right back. (upbeat music)